Why Más+ Failed — And Why Patrón Continues To Win

0:10Hello friends and thanks for tuning into Taste Radio, the number one podcast for anyone building a business in food or beverage. I'm Ray Latif, the editor and producer of Taste Radio and with my co-hosts John Craven, Melissa Travers and Mike Schneider. In this episode, we discuss the sudden shutdown of hydration brand Moss Plus Messi, and what the high-profile collapse says about the challenges facing celebrity-backed beverages. We also examine how Ithaca Hummus founder Chris Kirby is applying the same relentless focus on quality and operations that fueled Ithaca's rise to the rapid early growth of his new brand, Guillermo Salsa.

0:52The team also digs into the launch of a high-protein twist on a classic snack category and samples a colostrum soda, a summer-inspired tea concentrate, and a holy chili crisp. This episode also features an interview with Patron Tequila executives Roberto Nunez and David Rodriguez who talk about how the company continues to grow and evolve without sacrificing craftsmanship and how the Patron way has become central to the brand's identity, culture, and global success. All right, well, as much as I don't want to do this, a hearty congratulations to Mike Schneider and his team, the Arsenal Gunners, who have won the Premier League.

1:37Congratulations, Mike. Fantastic. Thanks, Ray. You had a good weekend? I've been having good week after good week after good week. Well, technically it was about two weeks ago that they clinched it. I know, but it's just been a lot of fun. It's been a lot of fun. I've never, ever regretted being an Arsenal supporter. Have you been a supporter since they won the last one or no? 22 years ago? Yeah, I was. I was a supporter 22 years ago. Okay. Since like 1997. Sigh, indeed. Yeah, I mean, I love that your stupid club wins. This is like the one day you choose to wear literally zero Arsenal stuff. That is really weird.

2:11I would have thought he'd show up with like a tattoo on his face. You don't want to, do you not want to gloat? The gunner cannon tattooed to his forehead. No, I was supposed to have jury duty today. I was thinking more like a little Arteta as the baby Jesus. Okay. Mikel Arteta is the manager of Arsenal. So, yeah. I was going to say it's the only player I know on the team. I'm kidding. He's the manager. I know he is. I know he is. I'm kidding. I was going to get the cannon across my forehead, but Arteta Jesus is coming. Okay. Okay. Well, there is a bar in New York City that is the Arsenal bar. Oh, Hanlon's.

2:43Yes. So maybe when we're in New York in a couple of weeks, you'll be able to celebrate the Premier League and perhaps even the Champions League, which the final is happening. How great would that be? Yeah, yeah. We'll be in New York City, of course, in a couple of weeks for BevNet Live in New York City 2026. I don't know about that. But anyway, June 10th and 11th, that's when it's happening. It is the event for the beverage industry. Investors, retailers, distributors, consultants, designers, suppliers, service providers, they're all going to be at BevNet Live and you want to be there as well.

3:19You also get a chance to meet your heroes like Olivia Faraday, Daniel Corey. The trip team will be there. Yeah. They're going to be on stage. They're going to give you lessons of how they built their brand. They'll tell you a lot about their playbook, but you can just walk up to them, have a conversation, Tom, where you are in your journey, they're going to give you advice. Yeah, Mark Rumpola, the founder of Zico, Tom First, one of the co-founders of Nantucket Nectars and current founder of CulturePop. NBD. Yeah, NBD. Just making it every day. We mentioned this last week, Bill Shufeld from Athletic Brewing.

3:49Oh my gosh. But yeah, I think it's a win-win for anyone who attends. Again, you're going to meet and interact with the founders of some of the most cutting-edge brands in the industry. and the founders of those brands will have an opportunity to meet, as you mentioned, their heroes and folks who can help them scale their businesses. And retailers. And retailers, of course, yes. Investors. We'll have two retailers on stage as judges for the New Beverage Showdown, one from the Vitamin Shop and one from Whole Foods. Awesome. Find out who those folks are going to be. Head to BevNetLive.com and register.

4:20I'm pretty sure you will as soon as you see those names. Speaking of great retailers that are taking one-to-ones, do you know we have Wegmans and Walmart? The W's? The W's. The W's. I love that. Two big W's. Big dubs for us, big dubs for you. I'm excited for that because, as everyone knows, I'm a big Wegmans fan. And I've gotten into Walmart lately as well. Walmart's fantastic. A lot of delivery from Walmart of late. It's fantastic. Yeah. They have good blue shirts there. They have a lot of good blue shirts there. They do, actually. Well, the stuff I order, I mean, that one you're wearing looks kind of Walmart-grade.

4:53No, that's Walmart. I'm totally kidding. This is Versace, okay? That's what I said. I was complimenting Walmart. He said it was Walmart grade. What part of Versace do you not understand? They don't chop the prices. What do they do at Walmart? I don't know what they do. Those old commercials? That's an old commercial. They roll them back. Roll them back. Roll them back the prices. Yeah. They roll them back with a smiley face. Let's stay used to them anyway. Once again, June 10th and 11th in New York City. Do not miss it. BevNetLive.com I was hoping we'd see Lionel Messi on stage at BevNetLive at some point.

5:26I don't know if that's going to happen. Lionel Messi, obviously the very famous footballer from Argentina. Very famous. Also with Inter Miami, but best known for his days at Barcelona. This was your chance to use the word most. Well, he's like the world's most famous human. Even I know who he is. I would say Ronaldo is probably more famous than he is. Come on. He is. He's not. He is. He's not. Okay, anyway. He is. They're probably, they're probably, they're equal. They're equal. Okay, equally famous. So I mentioned this because Lionel Messi is one of the founders of a brand called Moss Plus by Messi, which was a sports drink that splashed onto the scene in 2024.

6:09It was co-launched by Mark Anthony Brands. Mark Anthony Brands, John Craven is most famous for? White Claw. White Claw, exactly. And it seemed like this was going to be the next challenger brand in the sports drink category. but unfortunately it's off the pitch it's done well done yeah you like that so good yeah so good so uh yeah last week the ceo of the mark anthony group confirmed to bevnat that the co-venture had concluded at the start of the year which makes me wonder how difficult it is to break through in the sports drink category when you've got a great strategic investor and partner like Marc Anthony Brands, when you've got, I'm assuming, a lot of money behind this company.

6:55And of course, Mike would argue, the most famous athlete in the world. One of, if not the most famous people in the world. Yeah, yeah. So according to the article written by our very own Marty Caballero, Moss Plus by Messi had struggled to gain a foothold in the sports ring category for its core 16.9 ounce PET line since launching in March of 2024. even though it checked all the boxes for low sugar low calorie and electrolytes and built out of a beer line dst house the brand had aimed to waive the popularity that it surrounded the superstar that being messy since his arrival in the u.s and major league soccer but john craven you've tried this brand you've seen it you follow this brand yeah i thought it was pretty good for what it is i mean that was the qualified uh i mean and look sports drinks are not trying to be the maybe most delicious beverage you'll ever have or a functional product.

7:49And I think maybe in hindsight, what seemed like good timing for this actually wasn't. And yeah, the sports drink category is like incredibly, incredibly hard. You know, I think what we saw happen with Prime in the past two years or whatever, I don't know. I wonder if this is part of the cycle where consumers aren't super high on like just straight up sports drinks, you know? I also wonder if just putting his name on the bottle and on the brand wasn't enough. I didn't feel like you saw Messi promoting this brand as much as you saw, say, Jake Paul promoting Prime. Logan Paul. Oh, Logan Paul. Okay.

8:31I mean, KS1, but your point is taken. I was going to say the same thing, which is that we hardly ever saw Messi's face anywhere near Moss Plus. And yeah, the name Messi's on there. And of course people can read, but still, was he behind it enough? And also we saw what happened with Prime as you both mentioned Prime. I mean, Moss Plus seemed like an analog for Prime, which had its up and then it just kind of fell off a cliff too. So there was like a romantic period for sports drinks again. And then there wasn't suddenly. Well, there was that infamous photo of Messi drinking out of a bottle, quote unquote, drinking out of a bottle of Plus Plus.

9:13It was on the cover of Bebnet magazine. And it looked like the entire opening of the bottle was in his mouth. It was seemingly very Photoshopped. And if you're a star and the person who the brand is essentially named after is faking drinking a bottle of his own product. It's a bad look. That's not the best look. Not the best look. No, not the best look. Never really saw any reels of him or it wasn't on the sidelines near him or any of that sort of thing that would make it seem a lot more authentic. Well, I think this also speaks to the importance of the founder being the face of, and not always the face of, but being deeply involved with the brand.

9:57You know, for some brands, it works really well. some brands, it's not necessarily the most important part of scaling. But it seems like brands these days that have a founder front and center have a deeper connection with consumers than otherwise. I'm seeing that a lot with early stage brands. You always hear about how modern consumers want to hear about who's behind the products that they're eating or drinking and their story as well. Is it a key to their success? Is it a key to scaling? Perhaps not, but it seems to help. And again, I think the authentic connection between Messi and this brand just wasn't there.

10:34For sure. And it just shows that a celebrity alone is not a strategy. The celebrity has to be involved. There has to be a story arc. There has to be more to it than just a celebrity endorsed it. Yeah. And with all the success that Prime had, I mean, there were shortages in stores. People couldn't get a hold of it. Logan Paul was associated with it. All of the work that they put into building that brand ultimately didn't wind up as a success. So if Moss by Messi didn't necessarily achieve all of those goals, then I don't know, what does it say about the category of sports drinks in general? Prime's got to be kicking themselves.

11:12So because they had that Arsenal sponsorship. I mean, this is an interesting segue because I spoke this week with Chris Kirby, who is the founder of Ithaca Hummus and also one of the co-founders of Guillermo's Salsa, Guillermo being the famous Guillermo from the Jimmy Kimmel Show. And I asked Chris about scaling the brand and how far a celebrity can take a brand, especially at the outset. And he talked about the importance of having that advantage and having that name brand recognition to at least get the word out, to help spur excitement and awareness about what they're doing. How far and how deeply and how much of the scaling is going to be tied to Guillermo's celebrity in the future is an important question.

12:02But no matter what, he's applying, Chris that is, is applying the lessons he learned with developing and building Ithaca hummus and applying them to Guillermo's salsa, which, you know, both brands are sort of in line with his expertise, both the refrigerated brands and essentially the same part of the store. It's an excellent listen. Again, Chris is a really bright guy, talks a lot about the importance of fundamentals. He has some really interesting opinions about fundraising. So if you have an opportunity, tune in. I don't know why you wouldn't have an opportunity. You got half an hour. Tune into this week's episode with Chris Kirby.

12:34It is titled The Simple and Reliable Secret Behind Ithaca's Success and Guillermo's Hot Start. You know, they sold$3 million worth of product already for Guillermo's? Because it's good stuff. know would you have bought it if it wasn't Guillermo did if you didn't know well first of all I did because I'm pretty sure it's the same thing as Ithaca salsa which was great but um no look I mean I think all this stuff the messy thing Guillermo's you know the celebrity it gets you in the door it gets you the trial buy but it doesn't get you the repeat buy and if the product can't stand on its own or execution isn't good no amount of like more celebrities gonna make you like buy the thing again you know so you're saying you need a Chris Kirby like object to make sure that the operation is there?

13:15Sure. Again, you just got to have a product that, fine, I'm going to try this because Guillermo's cool, but is the salsa actually good? Right, we'll buy it again. So, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's a refrigerated, high-pressure processed salsa that has great flavor, feels like it is very fresh tasting. And yes, Guillermo's will excite you, you know, if you try it in store, yeah, I'll give this a shot. And then you might actually forget or don't even care about the gear most part because the salsa is so good. But it also takes more than Chris Kirby on your team too. You need to have an entire team of quality folks who understand how a market works, how to operate, how to build great marketing, how to get it into the stores, how to pitch to retailers.

14:00There's so much that goes into building a product. Again, celebrity just isn't enough. Well, that's a good point, Mike. And that's also part of the interview that I did with Chris was him talking about the relationship that he has had with his co-packer for many years and how important that relationship is. It was so important that they called their original hummus cold crafted. Yes. After the process that they developed together. Yeah. And also, again, having a great team. When Chris came into the office for our interview, he brought with him the president of Guillermo Salsa, Leo, who's a great guy, definitely seems to know what he's doing.

14:37And it's kind of a dream team when you have a guy like Leo, when you have Chris and you have Guillermo's and certainly that brand is going to go far. Yeah, it's a product that doesn't have a lot of competition. I can't think of any other fresh salsas that I buy on a regular basis. So I'm excited to see what happens. There are plenty of brands. I mean, not one that I buy over, like I've tried a few different brands, but I feel like there isn't one that I've tried that I go back to. One called Willys, that's pretty great. There's a few in there, like there is definitely a category, so that's good.

15:06Yeah, there's, I might be mispronouncing this, this Jalapa or Halapa. It comes in a glass jar. Beautiful looking package. Very nice packaging. Yeah, I saw that for the first time in Austin. And now I believe they have national distribution, perhaps in Whole Foods. Don't quote me on that. I think so. Yeah, great looking brand. Lots of great looking brands on our tables. And I want to get to a few of them, including our first F-O. Don't open that one here. Open this one. Yeah, don't do it. You need more colostrum. I apologize, listeners, for screaming in your ear. Don't forget what happened to your ancestors last week.

15:43Hold on, hold on. All you have to do is tip the top. Don't, don't, don't. I'm not going to open it yet. Okay, this is a can of soda that is in front of John, Mike, and Melissa. I don't have one. I'm holding it in my hand. I can't pronounce the name of the brand, but I see that it's a colostrum soda. That's right. I thought it was Armada. I thought it was Armada, too. Yeah, Armra. Armra. How is it spelled? A-R-M backwards R-A. Armra, I saw this in our beverage cooler and I was immediately drawn, of course, to colostrum soda. If we're like highlighting ingredients here, last time it was buzz button flour.

16:22This time it's colostrum. Can we just, I'm sorry to interrupt myself. In the flavor of huckleberry. Right. I'm always confused by this. What is colostrum? So colostrum is the, it's also known as liquid gold, but it's a dairy product produced by mammals in the first up to 72 hours after giving birth that supposedly is filled with nutrients and everything you need to start life. So this is grass fed colostrum. And who knows? I mean, maybe if you drink it when you're in your 40s, it's just as good as when you're 72 hours old. I don't know. I don't know either. Let's find out. I'm down. And these guys have been around for a while.

17:05They have a pretty successful supplement business of this stuff, sold in powder form. Right. You know, when I first saw all of the functional benefits on the side of the can, they say immunity, gut, skin, hair, and vitality. I was expecting to look at the ingredient list and see four or five functional ingredients that all do these things. But from what I see here, it really is mostly the colostrum. So their value proposition is that colostrum can support all of those functions. I think it's an ingredient that has, you know, I wouldn't say at this point mainstream awareness, but it feels like one that has been slowly building.

17:43It's got 15 calories of like almost candy flavor. It's pretty tasty. I know there are people that are looking for consumer brands that are going to support their own gut health. And it certainly seems to be a function that is on the rise. I just wonder if they're going to be reaching for this. And Melissa, you have some thoughts on this as well, because gut health has been top of mind for you for, well, 20 years now. Pretty much forever. Yeah. And also on nonbase.com, if you head over to our data hub, There is a report by Spate that just came out recently on functional gut health drinks. There's some really interesting stuff in there talking about prebiotic, probiotic, postbiotics, what consumers are looking for, the symptoms that they're looking to solve for.

18:34So things like bloating, acid reflux, some of the top ingredients that consumers are looking for in order to treat those symptoms. They also, of course, talked about fiber. And what I got from that report is that people are still trying to understand fiber in general. Craven, you've made the point that protein is really easy for people to understand, but... Relatively. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a fiber. Yeah, yeah. But fiber is more complicated. So there are some really interesting findings in there about what consumers understand and what they don't understand. And they also listed some of the top brands by popularity.

19:07Wild Wonder was in there, of course. So definitely interesting. Head over to nonbase.com to find out all about what's new and current with gut health drinks. I want to call it a couple of brands that were highlighted on Nosh recently, including Cloud Foods, Cloud, K-H-L-O-U-D, founded by Khloe Kardashian and Helms. Well, he's also a co-founder, excuse me, by Jeff Rubenstein as well. Just raised$15 million, according to a Form D filed with the SEC. Read all about it. Anaj.com. Lucas Southerd, our dear colleague, wrote all about it. And then Wild, W-I-L-D-E, which is a maker of protein snacks. They're best known for their chicken chips.

19:53They don't market them as chicken chips. They market them as protein chips. But these are chips that are literally made out of chicken breast. And they recently introduced a new line of protein crackers. I sat down with founder and CEO Jason Wright recently for an interview that will appear in a future episode of Taste Radio. And I have in my hand a package of these protein crackers. They contain 12 grams of protein per serving. They're baked, according to the package, with real chicken breast, chicken bone broth, and cheddar cheese. Now, hold on, John. They come in this. I'm going to fight you for this.

20:31I want to try it. I want to try it. They come in this beautiful pouch, 7.4 ounces. They have a smaller one as well. If you were to look at this package, I don't want to use the brand name, but it is what it is. You would look at this and say, this is a protein Cheez-It. This is a chicken Cheez-It because it looks exactly like that. Does it taste like that, John Craven? He's going to open the bag. I hope not. We're going to find out. I hope it tastes like Wild. Meanwhile, Wild is opening or has opened a new facility to fuel their broader snack ambitions. That's according to a title for an article penned by Monica Watrous.

21:04This is also something that Jason and I get into in our interview. So tune in soon. But if you want to read the story about Wild, its new facility, and the launch of these protein crackers, you can check out Monica's story. But we're going to give you the instant review here on Taste Radio. What's up, John? What do you think? Really tasty. They are very good. I had some over the weekend, and they're excellent. The cracker is really tasty. It tastes like a sourdough cracker. crispy. I'm so surprised. I've had their chips and I think they're fine, but I would. This is way more appealing. To me, this is way more appealing.

21:38I'd like to taste some of their other flavors in cracker form, like some of the chicken chip flavors that they have, like the spicy ones in particular in cracker form. These are, these are great. Has anyone ever had a chicken and a biscuit cracker? Chicken and a biscuit cracker. Oh, you know what? You know, this actually came up in a conversation that I had on Friday. That's apparently a cult thing in the Pacific Northwest, rest right oh i don't know i had a college roommate that was like addicted to them many many years ago they still exist they're chicken flavored or is there chicken in them it's a chicken flavored cracker that's so funny you bring that up and it weirdly there's like a weird flavor to this that reminds me of that but these are way way higher quality i feel like it has just the wild essence in it but it does taste like a cheese it i'm sure that's what they were going for yeah yeah they're a little bit more brittle than a cheese it but i think that's crunchy crunchy yeah the crunch is there for sure.

22:29But they're so reminiscent of them that I think what a win. I am not a fan of Cheez-Its. So I yield to you on that. I like these. You don't like Cheez-Its? No, I just don't like, I don't really like Cheez-Its. They taste kind of like chemicals, but yeah. These don't though. They are chemicals. The point of reference on this is amazing because on the front of pack, the biggest thing you see enlarged, obviously, is one of the protein crackers and it looks exactly like a Cheez-It. So if you're looking for a Cheez-It alternative that has a lot of protein better for you, then you taste it and it's essentially the real thing.

23:02It is a Cheez-It you can see from space. Yes, it's huge. Does it say sourdough culture on the side of that bag? It does on the back as well, yes. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, it does. It's tasty. Hold on. I'm not going to throw this across the room. All right. While I'm sealing this up and tossing it to Mike, John's got a box of something in his hand. What is that? Summer Camp. Summer Camp. Yeah. Despite coming in a box that I would describe is more commonly used for, like, I don't know, mac and cheese. Yes. Summer Camp is a, I guess, hydration product? It's stick packs of iced tea. Stick packs of liquid, I assume, concentrate.

23:42Is it liquid? Yeah. Oh, it's not stick. Liquid mixes a lot better than powder, generally speaking. So, I don't know. I'm kind of curious to try this. It's to make craft iced tea. Well, maybe it's craft in a verb sense. I don't know what they're going for, but it's... It's craft iced tea made easy. 20 calories, got sugar, stevia. Pretty cool looking package. Definitely kind of cuts through the clutter, you know? Merchandising might be slightly difficult, unless that's a D to C play. Let's put it right next to Auntie Anne's. We've got... Auntie Anne's. Lemon yuzu jasmine green tea, jasmine green tea, peach black tea, and mango oolong tea.

24:18Yeah. But as you pointed out, the package kind of looks like a mac and cheese package. takes up a lot of space on shelf. I'm wondering how that's going to fit. Well, I don't know if it looks like a mac and cheese package. The shape is mac and cheese package. I mean, it's yellow. Everything is a yellow or shade of yellow, except for one. Except for the pink one. One's a pink one, yeah. It looks like the fruits from Ugly got a new job, too. Nice. Well done. The old Ugly seltzers. Okay, I don't know how we went from, maybe it's my fault, we went from wild protein crackers to summer camp, which, to be fair, I'm not hating on summer camp.

24:49Actually, I think that's a really cool brand. I'm just wondering about more. Innovative. I'm just wondering about merchandising. But we totally skipped protein chips. We have got some protein chips and puffs that Melissa brought here. This is Rogue. We've got Rogue snacks here. Rogue snacks actually just raised$2.5 million this month. They have this line of protein snacks that also have probiotics. And I was kind of interested to see with the wild snacks. Right. Well, I was interested to see the sourdough culture in the wild snacks. I don't know if that contributes any sort of probiotic to those, but these pair high protein with probiotics.

25:26They are launching these in Walmart, like we were just talking about, in 2 ,800 stores in July. You know, I don't notice a lot of seed oil-free certifications. I see it being called out on packages, but that's not a certification that I've seen on a lot of products recently. So I thought that was interesting. But these were developed by Science Inc., which was also the organization that was responsible for incubating and investing in liquid death. They come in some pretty interesting packaging. It kind of looks like a half a Pringles container. I swear I thought they were going to be. Like one of those that's in a hotel room and costs$15.