Why We Need Pepsi Prebiotic… And Protein Marshmallows

0:10Hello friends and thanks for tuning in to taste radio the number one podcast for anyone building a business in food or beverage. I'm Ray Lateef, the editor and producer of Taste Radio. And I'm with my co-host for this episode, John Craven, Jackie Brugliera, and Mike Schneider. An early happy Thanksgiving to everyone who celebrates said holiday. Gobble, gobble. Gobble, gobble. Interesting for someone who doesn't eat turkey. I know. I enjoy watching people eat it. What? And then everyone gets super sleepy afterwards, too. And I'm just energized. You enjoy watching people eat turkey. Like you watch this on YouTube, Jackie?

0:51It's like mukbang, you know, but with turkey legs. It's kind of messed up. We could really go down a rabbit hole because I know that there's a subculture that likes watching people eat food. I thought Jackie was like the zone of sanity over there, but no more. Not on holidays. Debunked. Jackie surrounds herself only with people who look great eating. She's that kind of person. From the moment that Jackie sat down in her studio in the San Diego office, we knew something was amiss because she's got a bag that looks like toxic waste. It does, doesn't it? It's a pink, opaque bag with one of those symbols that says biohazard on it.

1:31What the heck is that? It's not my stool sample, Ray. Oh, Jesus. Now we're going to talk about food. Yeah, but this is pretty fun. I thought it was fun. This came in the mail. And when you actually open the package, you notice that it is rotten. Rotten candy. Yeah, rotten candy. Better for you candy. This is their new spicy sour gummy crunchies. And also in the bag, you have a little cockroach. You got a little worm. Oh, my God. You got some glasses for a rave. Okay. Those are great. But who's going to look at a biohazard bag and go, man, I should go digging in there? People like Jackie. It looks just like a biohazard bag.

2:21It's not a good idea. It's just biohazard on it. I didn't like the fake cockroach. That scared me. Yeah, that one I wasn't expecting. Yeah. But anyway. Is it a big cockroach? No, it's a fake. It's like a plastic cockroach. Yeah, there you go. Oh, I see. I know. I always say. We had one of those kicking around the office. That and food don't necessarily mix. Yeah, but Mike always says, you know, marketing these days, it's all about shock and awe and surprise and confusion. And I feel like this does all those. It sure does. I mean, we all looked at it and we all were like, what the hell's in there?

2:51Why did someone send us a biohazard bag? Is this someone's urine sample? And thank God it was a rotten candy. Well, rotten candy is damn fine candy for sure. And as Jackie pointed out, it's better for you. Mostly gummy worms. I don't think they have anything else other than gummy worms at this point, but very tasty stuff. And I'm really excited to hear from their founder, Michael Fisher, who's going to be on stage at Nosh Live. As part of the Nosh Live Pitch Slam, he'll be up against five other founders representing amazing early stage brands. And this is all happening about a week from today.

3:29You know who else is going to be in the pitch slam? Who's that? Oh, So Easy. Oh, So Easy? We've got all kinds of amazing brands. Man, those Ube brownies are going to be hard to beat. Well, like I said, I think the Pitch Slam, and I've said this a million different times, Pitch Slam is such a great opportunity for early stage founders to build awareness, hype, excitement for their brands. And the reality, though, with this year's group is that they're already, I think, kind of advanced in that way. You know, Rotten's been doing some amazing things for a couple of years now. Oh, So Easy. Joblo's on?

4:01Oddball. Oddball. Yeah. I want to see a Joblo, Oh, So Easy collab. It could happen. Sweet. heat. I would love that. It could happen. Well, that's happening on day two of Nosh Live, which is Friday, December 5th. But there's incredible things happening throughout the two days of the event, which begins on Thursday, December 4th. We've got a lot in store. We've got surprises. We've got retail buyers. We've got investors. We've got all the kind of people that you want to meet in the food industry. And if you haven't registered now, you will have guaranteed regrets. You're going to email me later on and say, hey, Ray, I should have gone to Nosh Live.

4:39And I'm going to say, hey, man, I told you. I've been saying it for months now that you've got to register for the event. You'll miss Kaya's also in the Pitch Slam. I mean, so many delicious brands in the Pitch Slam, Ray. Delicious foods. Delicious foods, delicious brands. All of the above. Yeah. Yeah. And just to reiterate, if you're looking to meet your dream retail buyer or a buyer from your dream retailer, if you're looking to meet an investor that you think could help take your brand to the next level, you've got to come to this show. It's happening on December 4th and 5th. That's next week.

5:07And we would love to see you there. If you're attending also, just let me know. Send a note to ask at tasteradio.com. I would love to sit down with you for an interview as part of our Taste Radio studio or feature you on our Instagram account via our On The Spot series in which we sit down. Really stand up, actually. Yeah, it's a stand up. It's a stand up with founders of emerging brands. and just talk about what you're doing, the origins of your company, and why you are awesome. We know you're awesome. We just want to share it with the rest of the world. Also, of course, BevNet Live, December 7th through 9th, begins on a Sunday.

5:44What events start on a Sunday? I don't know. Just BevNet Live. The best events. Exactly. The best events start on Sunday. Fancy fair? You had to go there, John, didn't you? You had to throw me off. I'm not going to believe anything. Lots of those. Two completely different things. You're like, who's crazy and starts a show on a Sunday? I love fans. I never said crazy. I never said that. That's kind of what you're implying. I was implying that only amazing, as Jackie pointed out, only amazing events start on Sunday. You know, the Super Bowl's on Sunday. It's like the Super Bowl of beverage. There we go.

6:13Maybe you've heard of the Super Bowl? The Super Bowl is an NFL big game. The North London Derby was on Sunday. You didn't say what NFL stands for, but anyway, we'll move on. Anyway. No fun league. Yes. I over-explained things. So yes, 7th through 9th, lots of content happening on Sunday, including beverage school. If you're an early stage founder or relatively new to the industry, it is the best crash course you can possibly think of on what you need to get up to speed from operations to investing to marketing, hearing from entrepreneurs who have been there and done that. It all happens in about, I want to say three hours, three hours of time span.

6:56Something like that. How about a presentation? Yeah. And it's not that early in the morning. It starts at noon. You can sleep in. But you get a great crash course into the industry. Once you're done, plenty of networking opportunities. And then we have the opening party in which we'll have lots of amazing libations and great conversations with. Yeah. Just called a happy hour. Wouldn't really call it a party. A happy hour party. Welcome reception. Welcome reception. Yeah. They imply different things, Ray. What's the difference between a party and a happy hour? Naked bear slides. What? Wow. Nachos?

7:31Beer bombs? Nachos. Okay, we're not having nachos. No, there's no nachos. Son of a gun. All right. No nachos, folks. I apologize. I promised people nachos, John. So now I have to send emails to all those people and be like, there's no nachos at the happy hour. Yes. Yes. But also on Sunday after beverage school, we do have main stage content. So we're going to start diving into cannabis, start diving into RTD spirits. so if you're wanting to learn more and where those industries are headed you should definitely show up on sunday yeah john will be passing out blunts puff puff give that's the term

8:10all right now i'm gonna be handing out blunt objects to smash ray with okay all right i'm gonna have a bag of rocks all right december 10th and 11th is brewbound live another amazing event with just speakers who know the industry inside and out the beer industry that is beer and adjacent beverages cider hard seltzers fmbs flavored malt beverages etc and cannabis and spirits and so and na yes and and NA, and all this is happening on the 10th and 11th of December. This is kind of the calm before the storm for the BevNet team. I mean, I think for the most part, we're all buttoned up and ready to go, ready to put on three of the best events in the industry, perhaps the three best events for the food and beverage industry.

9:03And so just as a, you know, sort of last call here, if you're thinking about going, you're sort of on the fence, just reach out, let us know. We can help get you off that fence one way or the other and just make sure that you can attend because it's really, these are can't miss shows. And I can't make a guarantee. I probably have in past episodes, but you will meet people there that can help you build your business, that can help you scale your business. I mean, that is, again, lawyers, pretty much a certainty, but yeah, reach out, let us know. I feel like we've been training for a networking marathon and we're ready to go.

9:40every single one of us is just ready to talk to you, to meet you, to find out, you know, what you need for your business and try to help you make it happen however we can while we're there. Absolutely. All right. When was it that we first heard about Pepsi Prebiotic? I think it was in July. I believe it was in July. And that's when I, to be fair, I kind of mocked it. You did. Didn't you say that it came in a biohazard bag? No, no, I never thought that. I was just a little surprised, right? Because in March, Pepsi famously acquired Poppy, which is a brand of prebiotic sodas for$1.95 billion. And then just a few weeks later, essentially, they decided, hey, we're going to launch Pepsi Prebiotic, And we're going to launch it on Black Friday of 2025.

10:37Guess what? It's pretty much Black Friday. And so we have some Pepsi Prebiota Cola. We've got their flagship cola variety. And we've got their cherry vanilla. Both have five grams of sugar, no artificial sweeteners. They are made with stevia. And I'm trying to look for any other ingredients that might throw people for a loop. That's pretty much it. That's pretty much it. They use soluble corn fiber for the prebiotic. All right. So let's, we have two cans here. Jackie, you don't have any, do you? No, I do not. I apologize. Great, just pour that right over your laptop. All right, John, while I'm pouring, you give us your take here.

11:19Thanks, Ray. I mean, it tastes like Pepsi or a, I guess, cherry vanilla Pepsi. It also seems to have cane sugar in it instead of high fructose corn syrup. That's the other sweetener. Yes, that's right. So it's got like a, I don't know, cleaner, less viscous body to it, which is nice. Tastes better than a Diet Pepsi, in my opinion. Yeah. So the flagship cola, the one that we all know and some love, you can definitely taste the stevia in this. It's a bit cloying. You know? Cloe? It's cloying. What does that mean? Like that thickness that it leaves behind in your mouth. It tastes like stevia. Yeah.

11:59There's definitely a coating of sweetener on your tongue. It's not that bad in terms of like Stevia sweetened products since it has sugar in it as well. Yeah. And I guess it's 30 calories per can. I don't know. I think they did an okay job with the liquid here. I like the original much better than the cherry vanilla. Yeah, I would kind of agree. Just takes a little fake maybe. Probably my main issue with this is just that the packaging of it just feels kind of like they dialed it in here. Looks like they AI'd it. Excuse me. They acquired it. It's like they acquire Poppy, which is obviously like, you know, a really well-branded product.

12:39And this just feels very technical with like, it's going to hit those consumers that are really looking for prebiotic soda, which is probably no one. The flip side of that is that nobody's going to mistake this for their flagship Pepsi. I don't know. Couldn't you call it, I don't know, Pepsi Pre or something? Like just try to make it seem fun. That's my main beef. But otherwise, I think... Like you drink it before you drink a Pepsi? Whatever, maybe. I don't know. There's obviously no mistaking this. I assume that's what they're going for. That was my point, too. You know this is their prebiotic cola, not their flagship, not their diet, not Crystal Pepsi.

13:18Well, these are white cans, too, which I think helps differentiate it. Yeah, I mean, I think that implies locale. But I don't know. I wish they put like the 30 calorie thing smack on the front just to It is on the front but a smaller button for sure on the side though. Really there's two actually here There's one on the front that says 30 calories per can that says it's right above the right But I'm saying if you look at this straight on I'm getting nerdy here, but like you kind of can't read that fair enough Yeah, anyway, it's okay. Yeah, Jackie You were about to say something and then all three of us interrupted you shocking I just don't know if the Pepsi consumer is looking for prebiotic or like the functional call-outs.

13:56I'm curious if anyone's actually grabbing that. People like diet. They understand diet. They understand no sugar, low sugar. But does the mainstream consumer really know about prebiotic? Well, to your point, Jackie, if they are looking for the call-outs, you have to turn the can to get the no artificial sweeteners, 30 calories, three grams of prebiotic fiber, which is like saying three grams of fiber fiber. Yeah. I think that this is Pepsi's version one of this particular product line. I think they're going to stick with this. This is definitely a work in progress. Three grams of prebiotic fiber.

14:39I think for the average consumer, what does that do for you? That's a big question. And also, can I get those three grams from eating a stock of celery or something else like that instead of having it in my soda? Some Fritos. There you go. Right now, if I'm going to have a better free coli, I'd rather have a Nixie. Okay, fair enough. Both use Stevia. And I think that's the other part of this as well, which is if someone's looking for a lower calorie soda, is Stevio the right sweetener for that consumer? I mean, I think we're in a spot now where people are getting used to that and that this is a specific kind of flavor profile that you get for prebiotic sodas and this will do pretty well.

15:25But they could have used the same sweetener they used for say a Diet Pepsi, which I believe is aspartame or Ace-K, right? They could have, but they didn't because they wanted it to be category appropriate. And I think it tastes good. Yeah, again, it tastes fine, I think. But John, to your point, this would be better positioned as a lower calorie, lower sugar soda more than I think it would be attractive as a prebiotic cola. Yeah, and I think if it really wants to run with the likes of Poppy or somehow be in the same ballpark, I feel like the branding just, they need to step it up a notch too. Yeah.

16:06And they don't want people to confuse it with their top selling, low sugar diet Pepsi. Yeah. And just to round this out, this conversation, I remember when we first talked about this, Mike, you pointed out that Pepsi and Coke are the standard bearers for cola, right? Yes, absolutely. And so if you're going to create a pre-bite of cola, it should be a Pepsi or Coke variety, right? That's what you said. Right, with apologies to like Jolt and RC, which are also pretty damn good. I think, however, the cola flavor is not what we've come to expect from Pepsi, which is perhaps the biggest issue I have with this.

16:48It's fine. You're right. All of every, I think we all agree, it's fine. Could it be better? For sure. Yeah, definitely not something that's a total miss or maybe a total hit either. It's somewhere in the middle for a first version. I think the liquid's in the right ballpark. That's a pretty hot take that you think that they messed up the cola flavor. Because I think the cola flavor is pretty good. It tastes like Pepsi to me. Yeah. Maybe it's just that I haven't had a Pepsi in a while, but I want more cola flavor. This is what Pepsi tastes like to me. When I want a cola, I want the cola flavor more than I want the sugar.

17:21And this tastes pretty sweet. It is pretty sweet. And Pepsi's, for me, Pepsi's has always been the sweeter of the two. For sure. Coke and Pepsi. It has like that sweeter bite and Coke has more like bite to it. And I like them both, but. Brass tacks. And I think Jackie already answered this question. Would you reach for this over a poppy or would you reach for a poppy over a Pepsi prebiotic? Definitely poppy. That's one. Mike? Poppy. Poppy. John? I don't know. if they're both on the table i'm gonna go most diplomatic political answer you're like could you reach for an apple or an orange to pick the winner you know i mean really are they that far off he asked if you'd pick a honey crisp or a macintosh they're not that far off are they i mean this is like a cola brand that's not a cola brand okay branding's very different flavor is very different again i think you're like let's pick the winner of apples and oranges well okay a poppy cola or yeah that's okay that was his point i think he was trying to say i would pick the poppy cola still not gonna answer okay fine okay let's move on to chicken

18:36so everyone remembers just you know the brand that said it started as just mayo this is 10 years ago, I remember Just Mayo made a lot of headlines because it was a plant-based mayo. Mayo uses eggs. Okay, we're going to create a mayo that doesn't use eggs. And so then there was a lot of controversy about like, well, can you actually call it mayonnaise if it doesn't contain eggs, if it's not made with eggs? And they got in some hot water for that, but eventually it all worked out. Then Just got into the plant-based meat business. It's been a long road for that company in that plant-based meat category.

19:14I think it's been a long road for a lot of brands in that space. But Just has a subline called Just Meat, and they just unveiled, no pun intended, a plant-based chicken with Walmart. So this plant-based chicken comes in two varieties in pouches. There's one that's a buffalo chicken variety, and then there's one just a plain old chicken variety they're going to be in 3 000 or they excuse me they are in 3 000 walmart stores and actually there's four skews there's a sesame ginger and a chili lime in addition to the buffalo and original so i'm reading this story about the launch on nosh and they come in these half pound bags and we were all chatting before we hopped on the mics and um gotta say the imagery at the top of the pouch these are half pound bags apparently it's meant to look like pulled chicken or or whatnot and um it's a very ai looking photo of you think everything looks like ai today this is uh no you mentioned ai when it came to the uh no i didn't you did i did who did oh okay I don't really think this moves the category in a better direction.

20:31And the category is in trouble as it is. It's not the most appetizing thing to see. Pulled chicken? It's pulled chicken, but it looks like it's roasted, but it doesn't really look like chicken. It looks like, I want to say like old chicken that's been left out. Like dried out. Instead of pulled chicken, it's old chicken. Yeah, it looks dry. Yeah, it looks dry. Oh, wow. I don't know. I just wonder if the timing is even right for this, too. I mean, maybe five years ago, people would have been into this or seven years ago, people would have been into this, but is the timing right for plant-based chicken, especially with everyone now questioning what's in this stuff?

21:06You know, you have a single ingredient when it comes to animal based proteins, that is the animal itself. And then with this, you know, people are reading the back of the labels and saying, okay, what's in this? And I don't know. I wonder. I mean, what are they supposed to do give up this is a this is a brand that has a lot of backing behind it and that has you know made a name for itself and well they got to keep trying right i think it's also a brand that i mean over time just keeps putting out iterations on their products and i don't know i remember trying the uh their sort of scrambled egg alternative which i mean that evolved massively so who knows i don't know i think i would reserve judgment till i try it i mean packaging for packaging for meat always seems a little challenging it's like you know do you want to see pictures of raw meat or cooked and in what sort of format i don't know well that's the biggest problem with this is that most of the plant-based meats a lot of the plant-based meats don't have the format of the original meat.

22:15So you can't just show it as you would say a chicken breast, for instance. So they've already pulled the chicken and that's how they made it. You need to see what it is too. Yeah. It does feel kind of like a test. I mean, they have had a bunch of success with Just Egg. I see it in almost all retailers as far as an egg alternative. That's not the most appetizing thing. I mean, it doesn't have product imagery on the front, but it's like yellow liquid and people are buying it. I think it was also, they did well when there was like egg shortages and prices of eggs. And there's things that's like worked out for that product specifically, but they have all of these distribution channels and retail partners, and they've proven to be a plant-based product that is working.

23:00So why not test into another category with these partners? How does the famous Jackie feel about Just Egg? I use it. I use it here and there. I think that totally makes sense though, right? Because egg beaters have been around forever, right? So egg beaters are a liquid form of scrambled eggs. And so people are familiar. People have a point of reference to just egg. I think with this and just plant-based meats in general, who is it for? Well, I mean, obviously not you. You live in a VHS world and everyone else is streaming or something. No, but I'm saying like, but who is it for? because if you like chicken, you're going to eat chicken, right?

23:38I guess that's the big problem with plant-based meat in general. Yeah, but there's clearly still plenty of people looking for plant-based alternatives. Plant-based alternatives to animal-based protein? Yeah, I think so. I mean, just because you're not one of them, I wouldn't say that, you know, who's it for sort of stuff. I mean, I think there always has been a market for this stuff. Things like tofurkey have existed, you know. But is there a growing market for this? It doesn't really matter if it's growing or not. It's sort of like, as with any market that we cover, are there consumers seeking innovative products or products that make what they're already consuming better?

24:14So I think that too, like, yes, there were obviously like a massive influx of people trying plant-based meats that maybe their conclusion was they should just not eat this stuff anymore. But there are still plenty of meat alternatives that are out there that represent a lot of dollars that, if nothing else, a product like this might be seeking to displace. Yeah, and I think the type of retailer is interesting, too, because you go into Whole Foods or Lazy Acres and there's a million plant-based, you know, meat options. But if you go into Walmart, maybe there isn't. And this could be, you know, the product for the consumer that's going in there looking for plant-based option.

24:52But to your point, Ray, it is a Venn diagram of people who eat meat, vegans and vegetarians, because not every vegetarian and not every vegan likes even a plant based meat that reminds them at all of meat. Right. This has always seemed like a place where the mainstream consumer is not really going to be motivated to try this stuff until it's super tasty and widely available and affordable. And I don't think it's like a window that closed. It's just sort of, I don't know, maybe temporarily not as open as it was at one point or seemed to be. So if Just is continuing to iterate and innovate, I don't know.

25:35I'd like to try this stuff, see what it's all about. Well, there's another factor. Do people trust what they're eating? You know what chicken is. At least, I mean, I think most people do, right? Yeah, well, I mean, that's the same thing that I'm saying about taste, basically. I mean, I think the trust factor has to be there. But I think as products continue to nail the flavor like that also will help the trust. I wonder. I wonder. I mean, we'll wrap this up. Jackie, you know, as someone who has abstained from eating meat for a number of years now, do you miss... I was going to say at least a week or in London.

26:08Except for that one time in London. Snitching. No snitching on taste radio. Okay. Do you miss meat? No, I don't miss meat. I think I eat plant-based meats sometimes for convenience. And they often don't taste like meat. It's not like I'm, you know, eating a plant-based meat and be like, ooh, this reminds me of a steak. Like, never really is like a one-to-one. And if it was, I probably wouldn't eat it. Yeah. And this goes back to what I was saying is who is this for? I think what Just and a lot of other plant-based meat companies need to do is to convince animal-based protein consumers that they should incorporate these plant-based alternatives into their diets or replace them entirely.

26:52And I think they're going to have a hard time doing that. That's my point. And I think it's been proven that they're having a hard time doing that. If you look at the problems that Beyond Meat has been having for years upon years now, I think it's not looking good. People are looking at the labels. They are looking at what's going into these. So if they can have a cleaner label, even if they're using like, I think they're using wheat and soy. But if it's cleaner than using like a bunch of different oils and gums and things, I think that's a better for you option for people. For sure. So you're not having tofurky.

27:25for Thanksgiving. I just want to end on that. I'm going to admit to one thing. I, I've never been a big tofu fan and the idea of a tofu based Turkey, and I've seen them in stores. I'm having a hard time here. I'm starting, I'm sweating. I'm breathing heavy. It's not, not the first thing I ever wanted to consume in my life. Quick break. If this episode has you thinking about what's next in food and beverage, explore BevNet and Nosh Insider, our subscription platform with deeper insights from the BevNet team. Visit TASTERadio.com slash insider to learn more. Okay, I just want to mention before we get to samples, really exciting news.