Interview: A parent's guide to raising kids after loss | Andy Laats

0:07This is TED Health, a podcast from TED, and I'm your host, Dr. Shoshana Ungerleider. If you're raising a child, things like to-do lists, school drop-offs, and snack-packing chaos become a daily routine. But of course, there's a world beyond all the day-to-day stuff, too. In this deeply human talk, entrepreneur and single father Andy Lotz shares what happened when life forced him to trade spreadsheets for permission slips, and what he learned about health, grief, and the power of being truly seen. his story is a powerful reminder that health isn't only about metrics or milestones it's about who we're becoming in the ordinary messy moments it's about exploring the space where presence becomes medicine and connection becomes the center of healing whether you're a parent yourself or just trying to love someone well this conversation can help you find meaning in the mundane and might just change how you show up for the people who matter most.

1:09Then stick around for a conversation with pediatrician, researcher, and former California Surgeon General, Dr. Nadine Burkaris. If you've ever wondered how early life experiences influence health across a lifetime, this interview is for you. But before we dive in, a quick break to hear from our sponsors.

1:34And now, Andy Lotz. One of the first things I did when I started my company was make a business card. I didn't really know what to put underneath my name. There were only two of us doing everything. But I figured I went to a legitimate business school, so damn it, I'm a legitimate businessman. And as a legitimate businessman, a CEO, people tended to ask me questions about all sorts of things, even parenting. I'd respond quickly, firmly, so they would believe me. I thought I had answers. But then my wife got real sick, and I learned a whole bunch more. But let me back up. I come from a pretty traditional family, and I used that as a blueprint when it was time to start my own.

2:19My wife, Liz, and I got married in 2001, and we had three healthy kids in rapid succession, with me in the office and her at home. I know not all families look like this, but ours did. and for about eight years, it was a dream. Shortly after she turned 40, the kids were 2, 4, and 6. She was diagnosed with ovarian cancer. Suddenly, our focus was split between the kids and the cancer. Unstructured playtime, surgery, healthy snacks, chemo. Somebody's got to book the bounce house for the birthday party. Clinical trial research. for about four years it felt like we had the upper hand but then a bad scan i quit my job to help which was not a hard decision recurrent metastasized ovarian cancer has a very very very low survival rate but we fully believed that if we tried hard enough we could be the outlier we weren't liz died just over nine years ago.

3:29Margo was 12, Gwen was 10, and Drew was 8. At this point, my business card would have said single parent. Before Liz died, I thought of all the things that parents did as a complete alphabet, A to Z. And the way it worked in our family was I did A through M, kind of the blunt stuff, the job, paycheck, the tire pressure in the minivan. Liz did N through Z, more nuanced, making sure the kids, the dog, and me were looked after and happy. After she died, I figured my job would simply be the sum of the two, you know, the full A to Z. Well, first of all, I completely underestimated how hard Liz's end of the alphabet was, that N through Z.

4:23I mean, six days after she died, all three kids got sent home from school with head lice. We'd been sleeping in the same room together, so it was a total mess. Things got more routine, but they didn't get easier. Three kids, two schools, five after-school activities, just getting everybody to where they needed to be. Permission slip, sunscreen, water bottle, both shoes. I don't know how people did it. But past the literal nitpicking, And the logistics was the emotional dimension. I mean, I knew my kids, but I didn't know them like Liz knew them. I mean, how do you get to know a kid when they're changing so quickly?

5:05You know, I tried to keep current. I knew that Margo liked long sleeves. Gwen does not like surprises. And Drew doesn't always understand why underwear is necessary. But they kept evolving. They kept evolving. And so I finally just threw that away. and adopted a new shoe, new kid program. Oh, I see you've grown out of your shoes. Nice to meet you. Tell me everything I need to know about you. So we got there, mostly, enough, only to realize this. It's not just A to Z. There's a whole world beyond Z, a world I didn't know existed. Doing the routines, keeping up with the emotional evolutions only gets me into a position to discover this world beyond language.

5:54And I got there with all my kids. I'll give you an example. 10.30 at night, middle of nowhere, Vermont, drugstore. Margo and I are staring at the wall of feminine products the first time she needed them. Dumbfounded, completely confused. And then we decided just to buy one of everything and cracked up laughing at the number of sizes and shapes and approaches.

6:22Or the time with Gwen. It looked like she was about to break down. So I jump into mama bear mode, thinking something went terribly wrong. But then she burst into these tears of joy and told me about something that went unbelievably right. Or the after-school pickup with Drew. I'd done after-school pickups close to 3 ,000 times. So he hops in the minivan, grabs his pretzels. I notice that his lips are getting chapped, so I hand him the chapstick, the stuff that doesn't sting him, and he puts it on. He's comforted. He's home. After a few minutes of quiet driving, we come to a red light. Drew goes, Dad, what's your deepest desire?

7:09Yeah. Yeah. They weren't doing poems on deepest desire at school. He just came up with it. I lock eyes with him, my brain racing. Quick, quick, quick, quick. What's my deepest desire? What a great learning moment. Something I can say to change this kid's life. I punted. I don't know, Drew. What's yours? And at a red light on El Camino Real, he said, I want to feel love my entire life.

7:43we stared at each other in silence until the light turned green my job was to pick up my kid from school my role on earth was to prove myself worthy for an invitation into that inner life not the life I saw snowboarding or talking pokemon and know that kid well enough to say the right enough thing you know I wonder if I didn't do pickups all those times if he wasn't convinced that I would be there if I knew him and his needs? Would he have asked me that? Who would have he asked? All these times my kids were in this space, like nervous system to nervous system, it was beyond language. We laughed or we cried.

8:26We stared at each other in silence, not needing words to be together. It was like fused in a neurological sense, experiencing, thinking, feeling. One thing is two people. Now, maybe some of you have experienced this. I hadn't, and I was trying. But I learned a bunch, and maybe there's some lessons there too, for others. For current A through M parents, if you find yourself tempted to daydream past, or maybe outsource some seemingly mindless task with your kid, remember, the routine can be the ticket to the transcendent. for CEOs and technologists or anybody that's going to ask me now, how can you support parenting?

9:12I'll let you know. It's not about an easier path for logistics or some quicker path through the emotional evolutions. You want to solve a hard problem? Figure out how to enable more people to spend time in this world beyond letters and language. You need some help? ask those N through Z people, the people who have felt it. They'll be your guide. They'll let you know when you get it right. So involve them in your process. For me, the times that my kids and I spent in this empathy-rich space, you know, cemented the idea for our family that bad things happen. Pain, suffering, life's unfairnesses will happen, but we are not alone.

10:04In space, time in this space, the connection feels so good, so whole, I would do anything to be in the heart of it with my kids. And I hope in time, my kids will do anything to be in the heart of it with their kids. Because once you know, you know. In other words, I'll remember, I'm looking forward to the birthdays and graduations, but what will I treasure in my final days? A locked-in stare at a red light, tears of good news, and buying$150 worth of feminine products in the East Cow Path Vermont.

10:47Liz suspected I didn't understand all this when she died, and she was right. Her fear was I'd never find it, and the kids would forever lose access to these sublime interactions that she had with them. Those interactions were the last thing she could bear to give up in her final days. It was her greatest sadness, but also a giant gift for me. Paid for at the highest price that I will not squander. This shared world beyond Z that I can now experience with my kids, it's real. It's pure. And I know when we're there, they continue to feel their mother's love. Thank you.

11:44That was Andy Lotz at TED 2025. Building off of Andy's tender talk, we're going to learn more about the long-term effects of childhood adversity and what we can do to protect and heal young people. With one of the world's leading experts on the topic, Dr. Nadine Burke Harris. Dr. Burke Harris is a pediatrician, researcher, and the founding CEO of the Center for Youth Wellness. She served as California's first Surgeon General, where she helped lead statewide efforts to screen for adverse childhood experiences, or ACEs, and integrate trauma-informed care across health and education systems. Her TEDMED talk on childhood trauma has been viewed more than 7 million times, and her work has fundamentally changed the way we think about the relationship between early adversity and long-term health.

12:37Today, we explore how toxic stress impacts the developing brain and body. We'll also talk about what makes a child resilient and why healing from childhood trauma is not only possible, it's essential to building a healthier future for all of us. Here's my conversation with Dr. Nadine Burkharis. Dr. Burkharis, what first drew you to focus on childhood adversity and its long-term effects? And what was it about this work that felt urgent or particularly meaningful to you? Well, I really came to this work through my clinical practice. When I finished my residency training at Stanford, I opened a clinic in one of San Francisco's most underserved neighborhoods.

13:21And one of the things that I saw in my clinical practice was that my patients who were having the most challenging health outcomes were also the ones who were experiencing the most difficult things either at home or in the community or witnessing violence or had been victims of violence. And so it was one of those things that like if I was a doctor and I was in a place where lots of my kids had high lead levels, right, like like Dr. Mona Hanna in Flint, Michigan, right? Like I'd be doing all this research and saying, oh, how is this affecting my kids? For me, so many of my kids were being exposed to really high doses of adversity.

14:05And then as I was trying to understand better how that impacted kids' health, and I read the Adverse Childhood Experiences study, that stopped me in my tracks. Like it changed my clinical practice. It changed really my career, the focus of my work, because it made it so clear. that the stressful or traumatic experiences that occur during childhood, they're not just worrisome in terms of mental health or not just a social problem, but they actually are a profound risk to lifelong health. And for listeners who might be new to the concept, what exactly are ACEs and how do they affect a child's development?

14:52Yeah. So the term ACEs comes from the Adverse Childhood Experiences, right, or ACE study that was conducted by the CDC and Kaiser Permanente. And in it, they asked about 17 ,500 adults about 10 categories of adverse childhood experiences. These include physical, emotional or sexual abuse, physical or emotional neglect, or growing up in a household where a parent experienced mental health disorder, substance dependence, incarceration, where there was parental separation or divorce or intimate partner violence. And then what they did was they compared this history of ACEs against health outcomes.

15:39And what they found was actually like a shocker. The first thing that they found was that these ACEs are incredibly common. So two thirds of folks had experienced at least one and one in eight folks in the original study had experienced four or more. Since then, the CDC now regularly collects this data. And the more updated numbers from the CDC show that really it's around one in six folks have experienced four or more nationally in the US. So they're super common. And then the other thing that they found was that there's a dose response relationship between ACEs and health risks. So when we say dose response, it means the higher the number of ACEs someone has experienced, the greater the risk to their health.

16:31So, for example, a person with four or more ACEs, their risk for heart disease, which is the number one killer in the U.S., is 2.1. So a little more than double as compared to someone with zero ACEs. but for someone who has experienced seven of these ACE categories, that risk jumps to 3.6 or three and a half times. So we see the more categories of ACEs someone has experienced, the greater the risk to their health. And it turns out that ACEs increased the risk for nine out of 10 of the leading cause of death in the US. And so now that we understand and adversity in childhood is a risk for lifelong health outcomes, we also understand that early detection and early intervention can really dramatically reduce that risk.

17:24And so that is the piece that for me is so exciting. Yeah. So Dr. Burk-Harris, you just said the childhood trauma increases the risk for many of the leading causes of death in the US. I didn't learn that in medical school. Why do you think this connection has taken so long to enter mainstream medical conversation? Neither did I. I didn't learn. So there's a couple things. Number one is that the ACE study was published in 1998. So when it was first published, the original researcher said, okay, we know that childhood adversity increases the risk, but they didn't fully understand what the connection was.

18:06And so that's a place where science has made a lot of progress, right? But not just the brain, the immune system, the hormonal systems, like even the way our DNA is read and expressed. All of these systems are developing and shaping later life development. And what we now understand is that when we're exposed to adversity in childhood, normally what happens is that if you have safe, stable and nurturing relationships, if you have buffering care, the child's stress response system will get activated, but then it will turn off with this buffering care. But for kids who are exposed to ACEs and don't have adequate buffering caregiving systems, right, particularly if, for example, you have a parent or a caregiver who is experiencing a mental health disorder or if there's like intimate partner violence at home, right, the normal systems that would help to protect may not be functioning in the way that they need to.

19:07Then what happens is that you get prolonged activation of the biological stress response. So you get this activation of stress hormones like adrenaline and cortisol. And the research is now showing, right, that that can actually change the way our brains develop, our immune system develops, our hormonal systems develop, even the way our DNA is read and transcribed. So these long-term changes, the prolonged activation of the stress response and the neuroendocrine immune and genetic regulatory disruption is what scientists now refer to as the toxic stress response. And so now we understand that this is like a key mechanism by which ACEs lead to increased risk.

19:51Ah, okay. So I want to switch gears a little bit. And you touched on this before. we know that early intervention matters in the context of ACEs, but I think many families don't realize or recognize trauma until long after it happens. Not always, but sometimes. And so what are some signs that parents or caregivers or even teachers can look for that a child may be impacted by ACEs? Yeah. As I was talking about, we understand that when you have prolonged activation of the stress response, right? The parts of the body that that can affect, right? The brain, neurodevelopment, hormones, the immune system.

20:32And so we see symptoms showing up in all of those places. So for example, in some of my patients in my clinical practice, what I saw was changes in behavior, right? Behavior is kind of a canary in the coal mine. That's the thing that I think is most commonly recognized. If a child is struggling with their behavior, if they're acting out, or if they're having troubles with executive functioning, right? So the ability to like, be focused and self regulate and have impulse control. That is one of the most commonly recognized signs. But some kids won't have any challenges with their behavior or their executive functioning.

21:16Some kids, what we'll see is that they'll get frequent infections, right? Or they'll have really disrupted sleep, right? Sleep is profoundly impacted by our stress response. You can say like, anytime you're stressed out, right? You know how like you're trying to go to bed and your mind is racing, right? That is dysregulated sleep. One of the things that we can see is changes in growth, development, and metabolism. So So for some kids, after they're impacted by adversity, we see increased risk of overweight or obesity, right? So folks with four or more ACEs are twice as likely to be overweight or obese compared to someone with no ACEs.

21:57But we also see increased risk of eating disorders like anorexia and bulimia, right? So it can be overweight. It can be underweight. We see changes in hormonal systems like in girls, changes to their menstrual cycle, right? And then also I had a patient, two patients that I cared for, brother and sister, and the sister was almost three and the brother was nine months old. When I learned this, we started regularly screening for ACEs in my clinical practice. Her ACE score was a seven. His ACE score was a five. She had failure to thrive. So she wasn't growing. He had two pneumonias and four ear infections in his short nine months of life.

22:42So for him, the way that showed up was in terms of his immune system. And in her, it showed up in terms of her metabolism and her growth. The good news is that when I recognized that they had high ACEs and we implemented the best practice interventions, which for little kids is a therapy intervention that supports both the child and the caregiver at the same time, something called dyadic intervention or dyadic therapy. That little girl went from a growth rate of two centimeters per year to over seven centimeters per year once we implemented child parent psychotherapy. Her brother went from having those two pneumonias and four ear infections to not having another like invasive infection.

23:34So no, no more ear infections, no more pneumonias in the 18 months following treatment. That's how we can see it show up. Yeah. Well, so you touched on how common ACEs are. I want to zoom out a bit and talk more about something that you just touched on that you've done work making a screening, a part of routine care and pediatrics in the state of California. And what have you learned from bringing this to scale? And then what are the challenges of asking these kinds of questions in a clinical setting? When I came into my role as California Surgeon General, we actually lifted up the research. And the one thing that's like super clear, there is no debate on the research on this, is that early detection and early intervention improves outcomes.

24:26Because just the same thing that makes kids uniquely vulnerable to the impact of adversity also means that they have greater capacity for healing and resilience when we start these interventions earlier. So early detection is a really critical part of getting improved outcomes. And so as California Surgeon General, I launched an initiative called ACEs Aware in which we help to train primary care clinicians. So pediatricians, family medicine docs, maternity care specialists like OBDVNs, adult medicine doctors on how to screen for ACEs and then how to respond with evidence-based interventions to help to regulate the stress response.

25:21And then the other really important thing is we paid them to do it. So we got them reimbursed through Medicaid. And the other thing that we did, because we know early detection and early intervention, that key part, early intervention improves outcomes, we actually made access to services based on risk rather than based on harm. So that's kind of like a little wild, right? So before, in order to get access to, for example, wraparound services or mental health care, a child needed to have a diagnosis, a mental health diagnosis. So they actually needed to be harmed, right? Like the changes to their brain development had to be enough that they were symptomatic.

26:06What we did in California, we said, okay, we know that an individual with four more ACEs, we know from all this data, is between five to 10 times as likely to develop a mental health disorder. How about we don't wait for them to develop the mental health disorder? How about we actually intervene early because the research shows that when kids get these buffering interventions, that we can reduce the likelihood that they will develop mental health disorder or a physical health disorder. Let's actually do that. Since 2020, when we launched this, California's trained 50 ,000 healthcare providers to screen and respond with evidence-based care.

26:45So that's really exciting. Does it work perfectly? No, right? So we're making huge progress. But to your point, one of the biggest challenges that we're really working on is helping clinicians understand that what they're treating is the dysregulated stress response, right? And to understand, like, there are evidence-based interventions to do that, like mindfulness, like meditation, exercise, certain nutritional strategies, like the Mediterranean diet or supplementation with polyunsaturated fatty acids. So mental health care, things like child parent psychotherapy, like I mentioned, or trauma-focused mental health interventions.

27:32All of these are critical supplements to the care that your healthcare provider would normally provide for whatever health condition, whether it's depression or diabetes, right? Adding specific interventions to help to regulate the stress response. So we know ACEs are common across all backgrounds, but we also know that marginalized communities often experience them at higher rates. So how can we create trauma-informed systems that also address structural inequities? Absolutely. So this piece is critically important. Our experiences and our environments shape our biology. And so what that means is that our response to ACEs can't just be in the exam room.

28:26So one of the things that we did during my tenure as state surgeon general was we actually supported the creation of what we called trauma-informed networks of care. So the state of California actually gave planning grants and implementation grants to communities where we said, hey, number one, if a clinician is identifying ACEs through an ACE screening, right, they're going to need to connect that family to resources in the community, right? So we said, how are you guys going to do that? Come together, make a plan, let us know how you're going to do this. And so we saw clinics partnering with schools, partnering with boys and girls clubs, partnering with supports and shelters for intimate partner violence, right?

29:20Like partnering with mental health organizations, partnering with parks, right? To be able to support some of those structural issues and bring down some of the structural barriers to access to services and make sure that especially our most vulnerable community have culturally and linguistically concordant supportive services. And one of the exciting things is that many of the community-based organizations, this is something that people are like, oh, if you start screening for ACEs, you're not going to have any response. So much of the infrastructure was already there. Those community-based organizations that are doing the amazing work, supporting vulnerable families.

30:12We saw excellent organizations supporting Native communities, supporting young African-American moms, supporting our Latinx community. It wasn't about inventing a wheel. It was about connecting the dots of existing resources. Yeah, that cross-sector collaboration, the community coming together, that really, it's so powerful. One of the most hopeful messages from your work, I think, is that ACEs are not destiny. Yes. Right? So what are some of the most effective tools or interventions that we have to help children heal? You've touched on this a little bit already. You know, I've talked a lot about this in the setting of taking care of kids because my clinical practice is as a pediatrician.

30:57But one of the things that's really important is that this work is equally important in adult medicine as it is for child serving clinicians. And I'll just give you an example. We know that ACEs increase the risk of depression, but one of the number one treatments for depression is SSRIs, selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors. The toxic stress response is this underlying condition that requires treatment. A little bit like how if a patient has pneumocystis pneumonia, you have to treat the pneumocystis. But pneumocystis is a defining disorder for HIV. If you treat the pneumocystis, but you don't treat the HIV, right, the patient is still going to keep getting sick over and over again, even if you somehow treat it.

31:45And you're less likely to be successful in treating the pneumocystis if you haven't gotten the HIV under control, right? Yeah, because the immune system isn't functioning properly. Right, exactly. So for a patient who has depression in the setting of high ACEs, if the stress response isn't working effectively, right, you can treat the depression with SSRIs, but your treatment is less likely to be effective. Similarly, you know, a patient with two or more ACEs has double the risk of autoimmune disease. If you're treating the autoimmune disease with all those powerful drugs, but you're not treating the dysregulated stress response, the treatment is less likely to be effective, right?

32:28And so when we think about, okay, so how do we treat a dysregulated stress response? The number one most important thing that is required to treat a dysregulated stress response is to know what you are treating. I know it sounds very silly, right? But if you have a patient in front of you with six ACEs and depression, and you're like, oh, I know what I got to do. I got to treat the depression. Here's your SSRI, right? But if you say, okay, this is a patient with depression and look, I've done an ACE screening and they have six ACEs. I not only need to do usual care, right? I also need to explain to my patient, I think that because of what you've experienced, your body may be making more stress hormones than it should.

33:17And so I'm going to recommend these things to help you regulate your stress response. This includes good sleep hygiene, because sleep is such a critical, important part of helping to regulate a stress response. It includes trauma-based mental health interventions, because not every mental health intervention targets a history of trauma. So something like EMDR, eye movement desensitization and reprocessing, or trauma-focused cognitive behavioral therapies, or like I said, for kids, child-parent psychotherapy. So really using a trauma-focused intervention. I'm going to recommend safe, stable, and nurturing relationships.

33:59It sounds so silly, like that's not a clinical intervention, but helping patients understand that that is actually critical for their health. I cannot tell you how many times I have cared for patients and the parent or the mom is in a situation where there's either physical violence or far more commonly emotional violence. People don't recognize that like what emotional violence does to your immune system and that you actually treating that is critical to treating your autoimmune disease. Yeah. Right. Yes. Like, let's just get a hold on that for a second. And I think that more and more doctors now are beginning to understand this connection, help to make the connection for their patients and say, I actually recommend that clinicians and patients together make a plan to say, OK, you're going to do these regular check ins.

35:02How am I doing as far as my stress response, right? I use something called a green, yellow, red system, which we use for asthma, like an asthma action plan. I actually recommended this for our patients for addressing their stress response. So like green, you're doing great. What are the regular things? Your regular exercise, your good nutrition, your good sleep hygiene, you know, yellow, what are the signs? How do you know, right? What are the things for you? You have trouble with, you're having trouble sleeping. You may be finding yourself with an impulse to consume more substances, like you're reaching for that third glass of wine, right?

35:35Like, and that is helping patients understand, oh, that's actually a sign that your stress response is an overdrive. So we really have to work on bringing that back into balance. And so maybe that means instead of meditating once a day, you bump it up to twice a day. And this is what the evidence shows is that these interventions can help to regulate the stress response and improve health outcomes. So powerful. And sort of building on that, so when we talk about adults who've experienced ACEs themselves and then they're now raising kids, what would you say to them about breaking cycles of harm and hopefully giving themselves grace in that process?

36:20So one of the things that I have seen over and over again in my clinical practice is that without intentional intervention, ACEs tend to be handed down from generation to generation. Honestly, more reliably than any genetic disease I've ever seen, right? But the good news, again, is that with intervention, we can break that intergenerational cycle. So one of the most challenging but most important things is for parents and caregivers to be able to talk to their own doctor, right, to assess their ACEs and develop a plan of care. So oftentimes a lot of people are like, I'm great. I don't, you know, oh yeah, I had ACEs, but that happened in the past.

37:19I think a lot of folks have this portrait of what that looks like. Like you have to have serious substance use problem or you have to have a serious mental health disorder. But I think that for a lot of us, it's circumstantial, right? Like when we get in certain circumstances that are really triggering for us, it makes it more difficult to be able to self-regulate. Right. And so when we struggle to self-regulate, especially with our kids, and I'm going to say this as a mother of four boys, right, there is nothing to touch on your triggers like your kids. in the family, if your partner is going to trigger you or your kids are going to trigger you.

38:03And if you and your partner are triggering each other, that can create much more conflict in the household. And so being able to recognize, whoo, okay, this is, I'm getting a little dysregulated. I got to go back to my, my action plan. Right. And I got to, I recognize like one of my favorite tools is my walk and talk. Like I'll do a walk with a girlfriend and talk. I'm like, I'm getting safe and stable relationships and exercise at the same time. So that's really key. But just those pieces, recognizing what your triggers are, right? And why. And giving yourself so much grace for that. Like, oh yeah, of course that's going to activate my stress response.

38:41Why? Because my stress response was wired when I was a child to react to that. So that's my body just trying to protect me. And you know what? I can recognize it. And then I can get myself the care that I need. So that even when I, it's not that I may not get dysregulated, I might get dysregulated, but I know how to recognize it. And I know how to get care. I know how to seek help. If every listener could do just one small thing today to support a child in their life, What would you want that to be? Kids need to be seen, soothed, and safe. So letting kids know that they are safe and being that safe place for a child.

39:29So that would be the one thing. But I'm going to say, in order for us to be able to be that safe place for a child, we have to practice our own self-care. So equally as important as being that safe place for a child is creating that safe place for ourselves, right? That means having some boundaries with some folks. That means getting the self-care that we need, doing that mindfulness, going for that walk. If it's, you know, keeping that appointment with our therapist, whatever it is, being that safe place for ourselves. This has been a powerful conversation. I've learned so much. Dr. Nadine Burke-Harris, You have done so much to raise awareness, training healthcare workers, creating pathways for reimbursement of this, and then offering preventative interventions for thousands and thousands of children who've experienced these ACEs.

40:28I mean, this is going to have massive ripple effects in society. Thank you for your service and for your incredible work in elevating this conversation. Oh, thank you so much. It's absolutely my pleasure. and that's it for today's episode for those looking to learn more dr burke harris has a couple resources for you if you're a clinician check out acesaware.org that's a-c-e-s-a-w-a-r-e dot org and for patients check out numberstory.org and that's it for today's episode thank you so much for listening ted health is a podcast from ted and i'd love to hear your thoughts about this episode, send me a message on Instagram at ShoshanaMD.

41:14This episode was produced by me, Shoshana Ungerleiter, and Jess Shane. Edited by Alejandra Salazar and fact-checked by Vanessa Garcia-Woodworth. Special thanks to Maria Lages, Farrah Degrunge, Daniela Balarezo, Constanza Gallardo, Tansika Sangmarniwang, and Roxanne Heilash.

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