Living a Meaningful Life (4/5): How to achieve fulfillment -- not just success | Ira Bedzow

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2:10Hey, it's Shoshana, and welcome to my summer playlist. This summer, I'm spending time with an idea. What does it actually mean to live a meaningful life? We hear a lot about how to live better, how to be more productive, take care of your health, build confidence, and achieve more. But meaning can be harder to pin down because it shifts as we change. Sometimes it comes from growth or accomplishment. Other times, how we handle anger, how we care for our bodies or relate to who we're becoming, or how honestly we think about the fact that our time is limited. So I pulled five conversations from the TED Health Archive that have helped me think about meaning from very different angles.

2:53You'll hear from Stacey London on confidence, identity, and redefining yourself as you get older. Jennifer Parlamis on what actually helps us deal with anger. My own take on finding a workout routine that works for your life. Ira Bedzo on the difference between success and fulfillment. and Dr. Katherine Mannix on what thinking about the end of life can teach us about living well. These conversations don't offer one answer to what makes a life meaningful. I'm not sure that there is one. But together they ask us to look a little more closely at what we value, how we spend our time, and what makes a life feel like our own.

3:31These are conversations that I really loved having, and I hope they leave you thinking a little differently about what living meaningfully looks like for you.

3:45This is TED Health, a podcast from the TED Audio Collective. I'm your host, Dr. Shoshana Ungerleiter. To close our latest series, A Healthier You, I wanted to share a conversation that I had with Ira Bedzo at TED Next back in October. Ira's a professor, an ethicist, and a rabbi, and the executive director of the Emory Purpose Project. Together, we explored how to redefine success by aligning personal values with purpose and meaningful actions. We also discussed navigating urgency culture with intentional decision-making, practical strategies to prevent burnout, and tools to help you live more intentionally and at the same time prioritizing inner flourishing over external validation.

4:32Because achieving a healthier you isn't just about physical well-being. It's also about caring for your mental and emotional health by living in alignment with your values and purpose. Now, before we dive in, here's a quick word from our sponsors.

5:07Labor Day deals are looking good at Lowe's. Save$10 on one-gallon cans and$50 on five-gallon pails of select interior paint via rebate. Plus, get two 2.5-quart or three-quart mums for just$8. A fresh look and savings? Even better. Labor Day deals are on now at Lowe's. In-store and online. Valid through 9-9. While supplies last. Mum sizes vary by location and exclude Alaska and Hawaii. See store at Lowe's.com for more details. Hey guys, it's Paige from Giggly Squad. Okay, can we all agree that hosting is so much fun? And I really do love it. Every weekend, it's come over for snacks, let's make dinner together, and somehow the second you put out a fruit platter, it seems that bugs show up before your friends do.

5:52This is why I have to have my Zivo flying insect trap. You plug it in and you let it do all the work. It's specially designed blue and UV light attracts the bugs you didn't know you had. And wow, did we have a lot. like house flies, fruit flies, gnats, and then with Zivo, bam. Next thing you know, the pests are caught in the sticky cartridge and away from your yummy treats without any mess or strong odors. The best part is the design is actually sleek and curved, so it hides the bugs it catches, keeping them out of sight, and when the cartridge is full, you just grab the no mess tab, throw it in the trash, pop in a new cartridge, and then you're done.

6:29No mess, no stress. So whether you're hosting a dinner party or spending an afternoon baking treats with all your friends and you want to focus on hosting and not constantly swatting at bugs, Zivo has you covered with 24-7 bug protection. Plug in a Zivo flying insect trap so you can work smarter, not harder, and actually enjoy your time at home.

6:57so ira the bio on the ted website it says ethicist so how do you describe yourself first off shoshana thank you that's a great question to start with um i would say whenever people hear that i'm an ethicist the first thing that they think is well i don't need that guy um Either I'm a good person, so I don't need someone to tell me what to do, or they don't know me, so I don't want someone to come and impose their thoughts, their beliefs, their values onto me. What I like to say that I do, an ethicist, is I try to help people think more creatively and make decisions based on who they want to be and what they care about.

7:40For me, it's not simply just a matter of, is this act good or bad? Or is this act right or wrong? It's, are you making the decisions that speak to the goals that you have? Are your goals worth having? So in the professional realm, that looks like organizational ethics, professional identity formation, bias-driven leadership. In the personal realm, it's really about developing habits for behavior change. Yeah, so we're going to get into a lot of that. but you're helping people do something that feels really elusive and can be intimidating. Can you start by sharing one or maybe two strategies that people can use to help them get more clarity on what their purpose is?

8:22Great. So first, I think we need to define our terms on purpose. Purpose is a really scary word. And I think that when we talk about purpose, oftentimes people think that there's one thing in life that the universe wants them to do. And And if they don't find it, then they haven't succeeded. That scares me in a way of making people think that there's only one shot. And if you don't hit that shot, then your life doesn't have the meaning that it's supposed to have. And it's not only not true, but it's unhelpful. When I think of purpose, I think about it as a self-defined long-term intention that is meaningful to you and impactful for your world.

9:01I think if you have that type of intention, it'll guide your decisions. It'll guide your behavior. It'll guide your goals. It'll provide you a sense of direction. And it'll provide that sense of meaningfulness as opposed to just thinking about the meaning of life. So strategies. When I think about how to achieve this type of purpose, I start asking myself a number of different questions. So the first question I'll say is, what do I want to do in this situation? The second question I'll ask is, do I want to want what I want? Now, that sounds nuts. So I will give you an example. let's say you and I were going out for dinner and there's this dessert cart and there is cheesecake on the dessert cart.

9:42Now I want that cheesecake. I think it's delicious. And it's like just right there for me. But I also know that I'm incredibly lactose intolerant. So the question I'm asking myself is, do I want the cheesecake, but I'm going to resist it? Or I want to not want that cheesecake because I know that there's other things that I value. There's other things that I care about, like not being sick for the rest of the night, living in a way that allows me to live my best life as opposed to a life of constraint or restraint. So once I think about, do I really want the things that I say that I want? Well, what does this tell me about myself?

10:19Does it mean that I'm the type of person who has to organize my environment to achieve my wants or my urges? Am I someone who has to build resilience because I know that I can't change my environment? the next question i'll ask is well is that the type of person that i want to be do i want to be the type of person that has to manipulate my environment versus work on myself do i want to be the type of person that wants to work on myself and not have so much concern about the environment around me those entail very different decisions in what i'll end up doing and then the last question is well how do i achieve my wants effectively now as an ethicist you might be saying well you never said ought or should in any of that.

10:56Like what should you do or what ought you do? And the reason is if I start talking about what people should do, or if the world says what you ought to do, or you're going to say, well, now I have to do what other people are telling me or what the world tells me to do. But I want for people to do what they feel empowered to do. Your values should entail choices, not something that you aspire, but never reach. So that's the strategy that I usually use. Yeah. So I can sort of see how this method would lead to more confident and values-driven decisions. So our metrics for success often can be tied to external validation, whether it's promotions, awards, whatever.

11:40Should we rethink how we measure and define success for ourselves? Yes. Next question. No, no. All right. So, I mean, look, I'll tell you how I define success. You can tell me if it's a good definition or we should use something else. So I'll define success as achieving your goals through and not at the expense of your beliefs and values. And the reason why I do that is because if you play the game of life according to your skill set, your desires, the team that you want to have and the game that you want to play, I mean, that's a great life to have. I mean, there's always risks and costs. We're never going to say that, well, if I do whatever I want, I'll be successful based on other people's metrics.

12:27But what we should be saying is, well, what do I actually really want? And let me see if I can get those metrics. So when someone asks me, OK, how can I be successful? What does success mean for me? I'll say, OK, well, what metrics are you using? And oftentimes they'll give me like either big picture things or like roles or like positions and stuff like that. And then the first thing I'll say to them is, OK, let's let's work with what what you're going with here. And I'll say, paint me a picture of what your life looks like when you achieve those things or even while you're pursuing those things.

12:57And they'll say, what do you mean? I have this job. It's great. It's like, what time do you wake up in the morning? Who do you talk to? How many emails do you send? Do you have friends in time for your friends? Do you care about having friends or time with your friends? Like when you start painting that picture, what I try to do is not focus on the possessions or the status, but focus on the activities that you're engaged in. Because when you think about what you're actually doing as opposed to what you're having, two things are going to happen. One, you're going to stop thinking about success as possession such that once you have it, you then say, okay, well, now what?

13:35Or you have the fear of saying, well, I thought it was going to be much more exciting, but the pursuit was actually more exciting than the possession. Like I don't, this was a race that I don't know if it was worth running. The second thing, when you start thinking about the activities as opposed to the possessions is the pleasure of the pursuit and the pleasure of the activity now are aligned. So your success is not simply that like momentary, I got it, but it's that continual I'm doing it. And that's a real different perception of success. Okay. I want to talk about a topic that comes up a lot, certainly in medicine, but otherwise, and that is burnout.

14:17It's a really big issue in a culture that's frankly obsessed with productivity. Some call this urgency culture. From your perspective, what are some of the habits and practical steps that people can take to resist the pressure that leads them to maybe overwork in the first place and can help them reconnect with their core values and their sense of purpose? Yeah. So burnout's a really tough thing to talk about because in one respect, you don't want to say that an individual is responsible for their own burnout because there's a lot of environmental or situational factors. And if you don't recognize the environmental or situational factors, you're setting people up to fail.

14:56So that I don't want to do. At the same time, if you say the only way to alleviate burnout is to rely on the system to change, you may be waiting a really long time, right? So I just want to put that out there and then let's talk about some of the things that you mentioned. So with regards to urgency culture, I think one of the things that we really have to recognize is the difference between urgency and importance. Urgency requires immediate attention, but that doesn't mean it's important, right? Like if you get an email saying, well, in the next five minutes, you might have an opportunity to meet someone that could be a potential intern, right?

15:35That's urgent. And it may be important to the potential intern, but it may not be important to you, right? It's something to think about in terms of, like, is the necessity to respond right away based on how much weight it carries or the time pressure that's being imposed on you. Something that's important is a decision that's really significant to how you're going to live your life, but it doesn't mean it has to be urgent. So in thinking about what we need to do, it's easy to do the urgent thing and check the box of completion. And we all get the satisfaction of we've done it. But if we don't balance what we need to do quickly versus what we need to do for the sake of our lives, we're never going to end up making the time for those decisions of importance.

16:24Now, let's go to overwork, right? Right. So overworking has a lot of different factors to it. You could overwork because you feel a self-pressure. Another way of saying that is you could overwork because you really like what you're doing. Right. So for example, I think I might overwork. Yeah, I think you do. Yeah. Okay, good. But it's because this stuff that I do every day at quote unquote work. And when I say quote unquote work is because like I have a bunch of different things that I do, some of which I work and some of which are volunteer. That's the stuff that I want to do anyway. Like I love helping people think through hard challenges, whether it's my neighbor or whether it's a colleague or whether it's a student.

17:05So the opportunity to do it in the office versus out of the office, one might be considered work and one is just like what I love. You may feel overworked because not of self-pressure, but because of pressure from a boss or colleagues or friends or social aspects. That's a very different type of pressure. That's not about desire. And that's a question of like, who's impacting the decisions you make or whose opinions do you value more, yours or others? That also speaks to metrics of success. You may think that you're overworking because you just don't value what you do. So you're working too hard because you just don't care about it or you don't see impact or it's not meaningful or there's no room for growth.

17:52So of course you're overworking. You're having diminishing marginal utility every hour that you spend. Like who cares? You may, and this is I think the real crux of it, you may think you're overworking because you're actually not making room for the other things that you value. So just as an interesting story, in one of my moral leadership classes, the students went around after introducing themselves because I make them introduce themselves all the time. And they asked themselves the question, if you had an extra hour in the day, what would you spend it doing? And they all talked about what they'd spend it doing on and so forth.

18:30And I said, do you know what that question really represents? And they're like, yeah, if I have an extra hour in the day, what would I do? And I said, no, what it really represents is what do you think you're not spending enough time on that you wish you were? because wanting that extra hour isn't just to say, well, I would do the exact same thing I'm doing now, but more of it. It's what do I feel like I'm missing? So we can't give ourselves an extra hour, but what we can do is reprioritize really thoughtfully. Yeah. So you, you really highlight the need for intentional living, um, in, in everything you've said.

19:06And this leads me to my next question, which is, you know, in my work with Endwell and as a doctor who's cared for dying people, I've really had the privilege of learning from those nearing the end of their lives. And their experiences have really profoundly shaped my perspective on what truly matters. I've witnessed how reflecting on our own mortality can allow us to be more present, reminding us to prioritize meaningful connections and live with purpose rather than letting fear or maybe busyness dictate our lives. I know this is something that I struggle with. What kinds of tools do you give people to help them live with greater intentionality and purpose in their day-to-day lives, given that we all have limited time?

19:54Right. So I would say this. You can use all the tools that I've already mentioned in terms of asking those types of questions, thinking about importance and urgency, learning how to prioritize, having clarity or clarifying what exactly the issue is. You can't give a medical intervention unless you know what the diagnosis is. Otherwise, you're just throwing darts without dartboard. But there is one maxim that I really love. It hits everything for me. So there's this story in the Babylonian Talmud, which is like a Jewish religious text, where Rabbi Eliezer says that you should repent one day before you die.

20:30And that's not the maxim. Because that's crazy. I mean, in a good way. What is amazing to me about it is his students then come to him and say, well, how do you know when you're going to die? Like, I need to time this right. So if I'm going to know when I'm going to die, then I can plan my day. But if I never know when I'm going to die, like, your statement means nothing to me. And then, this is what I imagine. There's no, like, description of it. But when I close my eyes, I imagine him having that smirk or that smile of like, oh, students, I have you now. And he says, no, of course, all the more so you should repent today, lest you die tomorrow.

21:12What I love about that is it totally changes what we think about in terms of repentance. Like when we think about repentance, we usually think about we did something wrong and we have to return to a status quo ante. Like, we've lost something and we need to say, I'm sorry. But you don't live every day thinking you're going to die tomorrow saying, what did I do wrong today so I can fix it? That's not what he means because that would be inapplicable. What he means about repentance is returning to the aspirational and ideal self that you have in terms of your own self picture. It's asking yourself, is this the life I should be living?

21:56Is there something more? Am I taking life for granted or am I giving it everything that I have? It's a very different view of repentance. It's a return to what you want to be and who you want to become as it was a return to what you were simply because you used to be that. I love that. I want to touch on community because we often think of success as an individual achievement. what role from your perspective do community and relationships play in understanding of what it means to live a truly fulfilling life so when you think about like the role of community i want to start really small first like when you have an achievement or a success who do you call who do you share with now you don't have to tell me but i can imagine everyone in this room knows someone or has that person that they call, which means that if you want to share your successes, then you realize how social of a being you are.

22:58There's a big difference between having a success and having someone to share that success with. Once you also realize that that whole aspect of sharing and sociality goes into the final product, You know that it goes all the way through. So the problem that we really have is not necessarily the sharing of the experience. We always want to share the experience. It's thinking about if we share the success or the credit of it, it somehow takes away from our credit of it, almost as if success and achievement is a zero-sum game. Like if I say, I did this and someone else did this also, well, then I did a 50%.

23:4275 %? I didn't do it wholly. Right? But if success and recognition of success is a positive sum game, like sharing success and credit with someone doesn't take away because it's not a matter of like a fixed or a finite amount, then community is all the more important. Because you're not against the community. The community not only supports you and you support it, but you're deeply embedded within the other people's lives with whom you live.

24:28Cha-ching! That's the sound of Lowe's Labor Day Savings. Get up to 45 % off select major appliances and save up to an additional$100 on select laundry pairs. Plus, get three bags of Miracle-Gro.75 cubic foot garden soil for just$10. Labor Day deals are on now at Lowe's. In-store and online. Valid through 9-9. While supplies last. Selection varies by location. See Lowe's.com for more details. Soil offer excludes Alaska and Hawaii. Hi, this is Becca Moore from For the Girls, and this podcast is sponsored by Aerie, where you can find the right bra in 59 sizes, soft fabrics, and good fits. If your bra strap is digging into your shoulder right now, it's the wrong bra.

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26:14We have an experiential activity. Ira, you have a really great way of helping us reframe how to connect to each other in a value-led way. And I want you to share this exercise with our audience and lead us through it. Sure. So, you know, oftentimes when we think about, like who we are and what we do and how we present ourselves to the world we typically introduce ourselves through our job or through our family roles or through our community involvement right like we'll say hi i'm ira i'm an ethicist what is an ethicist i have no idea or hi hi i'm a doctor oh i know what that is so i don't have to say more um but oftentimes when we think about identifying ourselves by the roles that we have whether they're social or communal whether they're family roles, whether the job roles, you both rely on assumptions of, okay, everyone knows what that is.

27:10But you also hide so much. Like if I say, hi, I'm Ira. I'm a dad. Great. I know you have kids, but do I know if you like them? Are you good with them? Do you spend time with them? Like, do they know who you are? All of that is hidden, right? Where if I told you that, hi, I'm a dad, but what that means for me is I love spending time with my children. But most importantly, what I love is showing them how to love the things that they do love so that they're fully invested in how they live their life. You know so much more about how I teach my children, probably the activities we do together you might think about like what our relationship is and so forth like it just tells more when you think about the activities um than you do about the simply the roles well it also does one more thing it reminds me of what i do and what i care about so it's not simply just a projection outward it's a reminder inward so we're going to do this as an activity.

28:18Instead of introducing yourselves to the people who you sit next to based on your roles, take a minute and think about what activities or interests light you up. Meaning like, what do you like to do? And why do you like to do it? How would you describe your character and the way you show up in the world? Meaning like, I'm a guy in jeans or I show up, even if I'm introverted, I pretend that I'm totally social. What does that mean for me? Or what beliefs or values guide you in facing challenges and opportunities. Meaning like, what are those anchors that serve to ground you when faced in a tempest of uncertainty?

28:53I mean, that sounds really dramatic. How do you choose how to make dinner or what you want to eat? So use those types of questions or other ones that you can think of and introduce yourself, not based on what position you have in society, but what you actually do when you engage in the world. I did this exercise with a bunch of senior leaders and executives. And one executive told me afterwards that he had like a board meeting and it's a new board and he was a little nervous and figured, you know what, I'm going to not do my regular spiel. I'm going to do what you said, even though it sounds crazy and let's just see what happens.

29:29And he said that the feeling in the room before he introduced himself was very stiff and in a way that almost put him on the defensive, right? It was just super closed off because it expected the formality of the scripts that we're always used to. And when he broke the script, people became human again. Right? So one thing that I suggest is scripts are good. They set expectations. Scripts are also really good to break because you can see what lies underneath. Last question, Ira. If you could change one thing about the way that we think about living a meaningful life, what would that be? Meaning and finding meaning is an active rather than a passive endeavor.

30:09Let's not wait and think about how meaning can come to us. Let's search it out. Let's find it in a way that's exploratory and creative. There's one thing that I really like to tell people, partly because it's funny, but mostly because it's true. I like to tell people to think about new ways of being or new ideas or new actions as clothes that you're trying on, just to see how they fit. Like oftentimes when we're thinking about what can I change, the very notion of the idea of change makes us feel like we have to commit to it before we even try it. Like buying clothes from Amazon with no return policy.

30:56But if you can try things on and see how they fit, then you can see if you're comfortable in it, if you like it. And then you'll be able to see better options because you'll have more choices available to you. That's how you can squeeze meaning out of your life. I always learn so much from you, Ira. Thank you so much for this conversation. Thank all of you.

31:27And that's it for today. TED Health is part of the TED Audio Collective. This episode was produced by me, Shoshana Ungerleider, and Costanza Gallardo, edited by Alejandra Salazar, and fact-checked by Vanessa Garcia-Woodworth. Special thanks to Maria Lages, Farrah Degrunge, Tali Emlin, Daniela Balarezo, and Roxanne High Lash. If you enjoyed today's episode, rate and review the show on your favorite platform. It helps other people find us. And I'd really love to hear your feedback. Send me a DM at ShoshanaMD on Instagram. I'm Dr. Shoshana Ungerleider, and thanks for listening.

32:33Labor Day deals are looking good at Lowe's. Save$10 on one-gallon cans and$50 on five-gallon pails of select interior paint via rebate. Plus, get two 2.5-quart or 3-quart mums for just$8. A fresh look and savings? Even better. Labor Day deals are on now at Lowe's. In-store and online. Valid through 9-9. While supplies last. Mum sizes vary by location and exclude Alaska and Hawaii. See store at Lowe's.com for more details. Hey guys, it's Paige from Giggly Squad. Okay, can we all agree that hosting is so much fun? And I really do love it. Every weekend, it's come over for snacks, let's make dinner together, and somehow the second you put out a fruit platter, it seems that bugs show up before your friends do.

33:18This is why I have to have my Zivo flying insect trap. You plug it in and you let it do all the work. It's specially designed blue and UV light attracts the bugs you didn't know you had. And wow, did we have a lot. like house flies fruit flies gnats and then with zivo bam next thing you know the pests are caught in the sticky cartridge and away from your yummy treats without any mess or strong odors the best part is the design is actually sleek and curved so it hides the bugs it catches keeping them out of sight and when the cartridge is full you just grab the no mess tab throw it in the trash pop in a new cartridge and then you're done no mess no stress so whether you're hosting a dinner party or spending an afternoon baking treats with all your friends and you want to focus on hosting and not constantly swatting at bugs, Zivo has you covered with 24-7 bug protection.

34:09Plug in a Zivo flying insect trap so you can work smarter, not harder, and actually enjoy your time at home. Hi, this is Becca Moore from For the Girls, and this podcast is sponsored by Aerie, where you can find the right bra in 59 sizes, soft fabrics, and good fits. If your bra strap is digging into your shoulder right now, it's the wrong bra. We get so used to being in pain as girls that we forget it doesn't have to be this way. Your clothes should not hurt. I got to the point where I stopped wearing bras altogether. And now my life has changed, you guys. The only bras I have in my dresser right now are Aerie, and I'm not kidding.

34:39Aerie's on a mission to make you feel good, and that starts with your bra. Your bra should hold you in, not back. Visit aerie.com to find the right bra for you.

34:58Thank you.