


7 Sep 2026 · 13m · 7 chapters

Shalini Sharma argues that “math people” labels are wrong and that anyone can build a “math mind” through four steps: believe, understand, make practice fun, and give math a second chance.
Shalini Sharma is a math learning expert and education technologist. She founded the math learning nonprofit Zurn, has observed millions of students and visited math classrooms on three continents.
Math learning is not rare genetic ability; asking “who can learn math?” misleads—teachers should ask “how do we teach math?” Belief enables courage, extra help, and extra work; understanding beats memorization; games increase engagement.
Her pre-K pickup encounter where a mom said her child “isn’t a math kid”; her own 6th-grade math collapse and a teacher’s encouragement; ratios via peanut-butter/jelly sandwich preferences; a national test fraction question (73% wrong, most chose “two halves”); Battleship for coordinate planes; counting change at a farmer’s market.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes.
Discussion on perceptions of being a 'math person' and the upcoming talk by Shalini Sharma.
Shalini shares her experience with math and the importance of belief in learning.
“I want to share a vivid memory from when they were in pre-K.”
Discusses how belief can change a student's approach to math.
“And so I have four steps to offer that begin to answer the question, how do we build a math mind?”
Emphasizes understanding math concepts through visualization rather than rote memorization.
“And so that's why the first step is to believe.”
Suggests ways to make math practice enjoyable for kids through games and activities.
“I can use a picture from my everyday life to understand ratios.”
Encourages a renewed perspective on math, highlighting its beauty and importance.
“A worksheet with 50 tedious long division problems.”
Learn how to approach math with love and patience for better outcomes.
“And when we do, no one can take that from us.”

Get the gist, explore an idea or ask about something said.
On TED Talks Daily, what are the key points of this episode?
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.
0:00Hey, y 'all. Elise Hu here. My three daughters just headed back to school with new backpacks, new teachers, and all that first-day energy. And back-to-school season can make me feel like a student again, too. So for this month's TED Talks Daily playlist, we have gathered five of our favorite talks about learning, teaching, and the joy of staying curious. No textbooks required. Happy listening.
0:26you're listening to TED Talks Daily where we bring you new ideas to spark your curiosity every day I'm your host Elise Hugh you might have encountered this in your own life or with your kids the label of being math oriented or not I even remember thinking to myself when I was little I guess I'm just not a math person well in her 2024 talk math expert Shalini Sharma says the truth is we can all become math people. And she explains how after the break.
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3:34And now, our TED Talk of the day. Let me get started with this. I'm a mom. And I have 13-year-old twin boys. I want to share a vivid memory from when they were in pre-K. A mom came over at Pickup to befriend me, and she started telling me about her daughter. She said, she's like me. She's just not a math kid. But your boys, your boys are math kids. We're just not math people. I was stunned. I worried if I opened my mouth to disagree, I'd say something crazy. And we all know the price of crazy at pickup. You never get invited to any playdates. So I bit my tongue. She was the smartest and sweetest mom, and I remember thinking, how do you know your four-year-old will never be good at math?
4:33Can you imagine if we thought the same thing in reading? If a kid struggled and we said, she's just not a reading kid. And then we took away all the challenging books and writing assignments for the rest of her school years. We'd never do that. We'd never be okay labeling some of the kids reading kids and leaving the rest illiterate. But that's exactly what we do in math. I'm a math learning expert and an education technologist. And believe it or not, I was not always a math kid. But for the last 12 years, I have observed millions of students complete billions of math problems, and I've visited math classrooms on three continents, all to build the math learning nonprofit Zurn.
5:21And in all that work, I've learned one important thing. We're asking the wrong question in math learning. Instead of asking who can learn math, we should be asking, how do you teach math? because when we ask who, we imply that math learning is some rare genetic ability. But it's not. We have piles of data that tell us we can all build a math mind and we all need a math mind. And so I have four steps to offer that begin to answer the question, how do we build a math mind? And hopefully put an end to this labeling nonsense once and for all. Step one, believe. Remember when I said I wasn't always a math kid?
6:09I was in sixth grade. I had just transferred schools. And it was in math class that I fell apart. I had no friends in math class. And the kids who were thriving were a group of boys who wouldn't talk to me. But I would not talk to them either. Because they were grody.
6:32One day after a test, my teacher called me over to his desk, and he said, if you try your very best, you could be just as good as the boys. Eek. Not an ideal thing to say to a little girl. And the gender gaps in math persist today. But it didn't matter, because my heart exploded. The coolest teacher I had ever met said that I could succeed. Hyperbole, maybe, but I think his words changed the course of my life. because he believed he started a powerful chain reaction. Because he believed, I built up the courage to ask for extra help. And with that extra help, I did the extra work. And with that courage, extra help, and extra work, I became a math kid.
7:23And along the way, I learned my experience was pretty normal. All kids, even the math kids, fall behind, struggle, or feel math anxiety. But the difference for those kids is someone believes. And so they do the work and they catch up. Actually, in any subject you learn, you can fall behind. But that's usually a signal to work harder. But in math, that same signal is that you don't have what it takes and we give up and seal our fate. And so that's why the first step is to believe. And the second step is to understand. Don't just memorize math, understand it and use pictures. Let's say you have to take a reading test and you memorize 200 words to take the test.
8:16You don't actually know how to read, but let's say you get an A on the test. And then naturally, a few weeks later, you'd forget a lot of what you'd memorized, but with it, you would forget how to read. Terrifying, right? And that's what math class feels like for a lot of kids. Think about how you can grab any book off a shelf and feel calm and confident because you can read it. What if your math learning felt like that, where everything clicked into place and your math learning was durable? Let's take a big idea in math. Ratios and proportional reasoning. One is to two or three is to one. More scary math to memorize?
9:03No way. I can use a picture from my everyday life to understand ratios. Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. My twins have very different taste preferences. One likes a sandwich with one spoon of jelly and two spoons of peanut butter, and the other likes his sandwich with three spoons of jelly and one spoon of peanut butter. Very different ratios, very different sandwiches. Math can and should make sense. Now let's take a look at this problem. Which fraction has a value closest to one half? Two halves, five eighths, one sixth, or one fifth? Now a lot of us have been trained to just jump right in and start calculating.
9:53We're looking for a common denominator across these fractions. And because that's kind of hard to do for eight, six, five, and two in your head, you might even reach for a piece of paper. But there is another way to get started, which is to pause and to understand. You might imagine or draw a rectangle and shade in one part and imagine what is one half. And then what is two halves? Well, that's the exact same rectangle, but now I've shaded in both parts. So two halves is one whole. And pretty soon from imagining or drawing these rectangles, it would become obvious that 5 8ths is the only reasonable option, because sometimes the reward of understanding is not having to calculate at all.
10:50Now, this question was given to American fourth graders on a national test, and 73 % got this question wrong. The most commonly picked answer? Two halves. The most wrong answer possible. Because that's what happens when we memorize math. And so just like we have to make math meaningful, step three is we have to make math fun. Make math practice fun. Math practice. I know what you're thinking. A worksheet with 50 tedious long division problems. But we've known for years. In reading, if we want kids to learn it and to love it, we need to appeal to their interests. Fantasy novels with elves, graphic novels with spies.
11:47What's that in math? Games. Card games, board games, real-world games you just make up on the fly. And just like we're told to read to our kids for 20 minutes a day, play games often. When my twins were little, a favorite was the game Battleship, where the objective is to sink the opponent's ship, but also an engaging application of the coordinate plane. If you get a hit on E5, you're quickly thinking of which coordinate to call out next. You can also just play simple games that you make up in the real world. When our twins were little, we'd give them 10 bucks each at the farmer's market, and we'd say, make sure you count the change before you hand over the money.
12:34Otherwise, how do you know you're not getting ripped off? And a tip with all these games, don't make them a math lesson. Just like you wouldn't stop reading a book to underline the subject and the verb with your kids, just have fun. And let your kids have fun, too. And that brings me to the fourth and final step. Give math a second chance. You might love it. Have you ever noticed how the math kids giggle about math? They love it. They love the power and the beauty of math. And it's not because they're made of different genetic stuff. It's because somebody believed in them. And they learned math so they understood.
13:27And they had fun. So they practiced enough to build a math mind. And maybe that wasn't your experience growing up. And that's okay. Anyway, we can all give math a second chance now for ourselves and for our kids. Look, we all know that it's pretty hard for our kids to like something if we hate it. And the world of math can be mean and exclusive. But it can change when we make a decision, when we see the power and the beauty of math. And when we do, no one can take that from us. Kierkegaard once talked about two kinds of love, spontaneous love and true love. Spontaneous love just happens to you.
14:20You don't have any control over it. But true love is something different. It's where you decide. And so the change in you is to approach math with the plan, with the knowledge, and with the patience that you will get to true love. because in math, true love is waiting for you. Thank you. Thank you.
14:50That was Shalini Sharma speaking at TED at BCG in 2024. This talk was originally published in December of that year. If you're curious about TED's curation, visit ted.com slash curation guidelines. And that's it for today. TED Talks Daily is a podcast from TED. This episode was fact-checked by the TED Research Team and produced and edited by our team, Martha Estefanos, Oliver Friedman, Lucy Little, Emma Taubner, and Tansika Sungmarnivong. Additional support from Daniela Ballarezzo, Christopher Faze-Bogan, Valentina Bohanini, Banban Chang, Brian Green, and Lainey Lott. Learn more at podcasts.ted.com.
15:32I am Elise Hu. Thanks for listening.
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Math isn't just for "math kids" — it's for everyone, says learning expert Shalinee Sharma. She outlines four simple steps to transform your approach to math, creating an environment where any kid can develop a strong mathematical mind.
This episode originally aired in 2024.
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