A bold new chapter for TED | Chris Anderson

0:06You're listening to TED Talks Daily, where we bring you new ideas to spark your curiosity every day. I'm your host, Elise Hu. We have some huge news for you. After 25 years at the helm, Chris Anderson, the head of TED, is issuing an open invitation to the world to pass on TED's stewardship to someone new. It could be anyone, maybe even you. Today, we're bringing you Chris's special announcement. He spoke to a live audience at TED HQ earlier this month. It's followed by a Q &A with TED CEO Jay Harati and Anna Verghese, the executive director of TED's Audacious Project. Chris talks about this news in true TED fashion.

0:45He shares the big ideas that have driven this decision and why he's convinced it will open the door to an exciting future for TED. Also, stay tuned till the end of the episode. We have a special message just for you, our TED Talks Daily listeners.

1:07I think this is going to be quite an exciting hour to together. You've heard the bones of the announcement. I've invited a new steward to present themselves. And if that happens, they will get all of TED, the organization, conferences, the events, the brand, like it's a lot. And the craziness of this comes from my conviction that this is actually the best way to ensure that the future of TED is much, much better than even what we've seen before. These are early days. I think the world needs TED or TED in partnership with other things more than ever. We're at such a crucial point in history. The stakes could not be higher.

2:03Knowledge, insights, ideas, an attempt to persuade people to be their better selves, an attempt to bring people together, an attempt to be non-partisan and to listen to people from all sides. Hello, the world really, really needs this. And I think this is the way of allowing it to happen at much greater scale. I'll just, I'll say this, there's a fundamental problem that we and all other forces out there who are trying to use the internet for good have run into. It starts with a human cognitive bug, honestly. Bad is interesting. Good is boring. This is how we evolved. We evolved to pay attention, sharp attention to threats.

2:55That is how we survived. But it creates a problem and always has for anyone who wants to purvey useful information, stuff that's good. You have to fight to do it. All of TED's life, we have fought to overcome this problem. It was a miracle to us that the first TED Talks went viral, that they actually worked online ahead of kitten videos. Hello, it was incredible. It was so exciting. And it worked because we fought hard to make boring knowledge, which is what TV told us it was, accessible and told in a way that it could escape out from, you know, the small world of the speaker, make it relevant to a bigger audience.

3:33audience. And it was so exciting to see that happen. In the last few years, we have faced a new enemy out there. I'm going to say, why not use the word enemy? It's algorithms that were probably created for good intent, but they were created to maximize attention, which played right into this human cognitive bug of teaching millions and millions of content providers that the way you get attention is to stoke people's fear, to play up threats, to show that the other is really dangerous, and to create this world, this increasingly fractured world, where we're all addicted to things that make us angry at one level, and which make it incredibly hard to take a deep breath and say, okay, I'm going to put aside 18 minutes or 15 minutes or six minutes, for God's sake, to actually learn something and to be inspired to be my better self.

4:29And everyone faces this challenge. I face it in my daily life. I spend more time doom scrolling than doing stuff that I know would be better for me. We all do it. Now, I'm not prepared, and I don't think any of us prepared, to cede the future to those algorithms and to that version of humanity. We cannot do this. There is no future if we do this, honestly. And there are plenty of people out there with the techniques and the skills to overcome this. We've overcome this in many parts of our lives where we learn to be our more, you know, we give our reflective selves power when it comes to what we eat and how we exercise and so forth.

5:13We can, we're capable of winning these battles. I look at an organization like Duolingo, which has figured out how to do something really good and teach people languages. by using some of the tools of addiction. But it does it at scale, and it's amazing. And there are plenty of things happening in TED that are really, really exciting and point the pathway to significant growth. But, for example, there's a TV show that I'm really excited about. Maybe we can talk about it. But for these things to work, it almost certainly will take a level of investment. We're up against big forces out there. The impact of those algorithms, and every media company that you speak to will tell you this, is that they have moved attention to the big social media platforms and thereby sucked advertising dollars and sponsorship dollars with them.

6:10It's made what's left for the rest of us an ever thinner feast. And so TED has, we're$100 million a year operation in terms of costs. The incredible team, some of whom are here, and it's great to have you here. And the things that we do, that's how much it costs. A growing portion of that in the last couple of years has had to depend on philanthropy, the sort of the easy sort of digital partnerships that we had a decade ago. And so it's just got harder. And that's just the truth of all media. So we need, if we're going to win this battle, and we will or we must, we need to bring in other resources.

6:56We need to team up. And that's what this is about, that this move is an attempt to create exciting new possibilities. the joyful amazing lesson that we have learned through ted's history is that it's by letting go that you gain resources i mean tedx to all the tedxers who are watching the tedx organizers you are extraordinary you are heroes you for some mad reason you are willing to spend months of your year stressed about putting on a ted event with no no money from us it's incredible that you will do that and the reason you will do that is because we gave you something that you owned which is the right to do it the right to do it tedx in your in your city the response to that has been absolutely astonishing you've multiplied massively the global footprint of ted um so letting go is counterintuitive for any organization but I'm convinced that it is the key to unlocking possibility.

8:04So that's what these next few months are. I do not know which possibilities will come, but I'm very, very, very excited to find out. I think there's a lot that we haven't even thought of ourselves that could happen. So now, in this time that happens, the whole purpose of this is to harvest. By opening it up like this, we get to hear from you. We get to learn from you. We get the crowd mind of the global tech community, which is an incredible mind, to say, well, how about doing it this way? And that process starts right here this morning, this afternoon, wherever you are. So thank you so much for being part of this.

8:45Let's get the chairs up here, and we're going to go into Q &A mode in a minute. Thank you.

8:57Okay. All right. So we heard a little bit about maybe the possibility space that TED finds itself in, but I'd love to launch into why now? Was this a decision, a middle of the night, you know, light bulb moment, a slowly growing realization? After 25 years, you're just ready to throw in the towel. Just give us a bit more of a window into both the decision and the timeline. I mean, look, I've been thinking about this for a while. We've been discussing it for a while. You know, what would it take to bring in new resources into TED so that we can really achieve the bigger dream that we want to achieve?

9:37I think one weird catalyst, honestly, was that I published a book a year ago called Infectious Generosity, which sort of framed the TED story in like, oh my goodness, we've discovered this idea of radical generosity and it actually works as a strategy. It's driven every single thing. The giving away of content, which was a risk at the time, is what made TED what it is today and it followed on with, there's lots of other pieces of that, but it's really driven everything and so I, but unfortunately, Maybe going, well, wait a sec. Isn't there something else you could give away?

10:21And so that was a catalyst. But no, it's more the logic of the moment. The upside potential of TED has never seemed bigger to me and never seemed to matter more. And so I just think this was the moment. And I'll just add for that. As Chris obviously always sees the big trends in the big picture, but we were having conversations about we have big dreams and we know that we can launch new businesses and do more things. But now to do that, we need resources and growth funds and investment. So all that came together. There's a moment to kind of transition Ted to the next phase but also to build up resources so we can do more.

11:02And I think that's an important distinction because I think, Chris, in your note you said there's$25 million in the foundation. People would think, okay, that's a pretty decent amount of money. you've still clearly got some ideas in the pipeline for what TED could do. So maybe just talk to us about, I feel even with Audacious, you've kind of witnessed that ability. If resources aren't the issue, that's, I think, what you're essentially trying to launch TED into in this next phase, is that right? Yeah. So the structure of TED, so you've got the TED Foundation, which is a non-profit, which has$25 million-ish.

11:40moves up and down, that owns TED Conferences LLC, which is the business unit that runs most of the rest of TED. And is$25 million a lot? Well, it is by the standards of many non-profits, but TED is$100 million a year thing. During the year of the pandemic, we lost more than$10 million, or of the order$10 million, but by slashing costs. You couldn't, it's one quarter's worth of our cost. So at least psychologically, I think it's hard responsibly to, say there's an investment project that required a$15 million investment. You would be very foolish to gamble all of Ted's future on that one project.

12:31And so it limits what we can do. And, you know, if we're to make an impact in the world, you can't talk in terms of 10 or 15 million dollars at some point i think some of the biggest dreams that we have may take many tens of millions of dollars possibly hundreds of millions of dollars to actually grow to global scale and so i just i just we want to open the door to someone who can help us think bigger that's great so talk to us about the ideal inheritor of ted you mentioned in your letter to the community that you want someone with both the ideas and the resources the willingness and the capacity.

13:11What are some of the values that have gotten Ted this far and will be critical of the future candidate? I mean, you want someone who fundamentally cares about the future of the world and everyone in it. I mean, Ted is fundamentally global. It's someone who understands the power of ideas. You know, we, I mean, I deeply believe that the ultimate drivers of history actually isn't politicians. It's the innovations that happen among inventors and dreamers and thinkers and writers and advocates and so forth. It's what shaped the current world are the people who innovated social media. You know, like for better or worse, it's ideas and innovation is what shapes the future.

13:58And so someone needs to buy into that and be excited by that of if we can get that right, wow, that changes everything. you know i i hope that they i think just the the the deep idea of education more generally as a sort of uh as a fundamental force that will shape the future educate global education if you were knowing what we know now about the world and what we know now about technology um you wouldn't create a global education system that looked anything like what we currently have We're spending countless billions of dollars in the most absurd ways when there are much, much better ways we could allow everyone on this planet to have all that they need to know to empower their own lives and their own futures.

14:46So, I mean, someone who's excited by really doing something radical for global education, teaming up with other people out there, and providing the kind of skills that could be offered to everyone on this planet, that would be an exciting potential partner. But the truth is, Anna, I don't know. And I'd like it's that there may be better ideas out there. But what we do know is that we wouldn't like, say there was someone who said, oh my god with ted i could make myself a fortune um uh use that brand you know knowledge is valuable let's make a fortune with it uh that they won't get it good to know um i think also we live in a very polarized difficult times you've taken a very pluralist approach i think to how to use ted to bridge build i think it's probably important also to just talk about kind of non-partisanship in this situation?

15:44How are you thinking about the future owner's belief system? So it's hard to be non-partisan. What I said at the last TED was this, was that in a world where we really are in danger of becoming just more tribal than ever, and where people on the other side are sort of hated and distrusted, that it puts any media operation into a bind. You have three choices, basically. One is you can ignore politics altogether. And for a lot of TED's history, you've actually tried to do that. I think in the world we're in right now, it's very, very hard to do that and feel like you're still covering the things that matter most in the world.

16:31I mean, politics is going to play an important part. So the second choice is to pick a side. And that is the easiest way to go. That is how a lot of cable channels, for example, have determined their future, their best way of getting viewers. Pick one side and then you can go all in on the sort of demonizing of the other side and the sort of cheerleading that goes along with that. Ultimately, that just adds to the fracture. We are explicitly publicly non-partisan, so I don't think that's an option for us either. And we've definitely been accused of leaning too progressive by some people over the last few years.

17:17Possibly there's truth to that. What Ted's future is, and what I said, and it was generally super well received by people, is that we are determined to be non-partisan and to find to be a space where we can give visibility to ideas from multiple parts of the political spectrum, treating people with curiosity and with respect and carving out a different kind of space that says no to the screaming and the hatred. Because I just, I get it, and there are times when that can be justified, but it doesn't take us forward. We want to be a place where people can listen to each other and then a magic thing can happen.

18:07You discover some values in common. Hey, we all care about the future of our children. Who knew? That's exciting. So what can we build that would make the future better for them? What can we build together? And if you can shift the conversation to what can we build together, which takes an act of imagination and picturing of future possibility. But it also takes, it starts with a determination to be respectful and to refuse tribalism. I think that's possibly, no, I think that's an essential role. And I think it's something that the world needs. There aren't many places where that can happen. And I think we need to double down on it.

18:48So one further question, Jay, then I'm going to come to you. So we've been witness to some pretty significant media platform acquisitions over the last few years. Some would argue that some of these have been pretty disastrous for society and certainly for editorial integrity. What have you learned from watching the media landscape change hands in recent years, and what has it clarified for you about how you would like Ted's transition to go? Chris? I mean, look, acquisitions are often hard. I mean, some work amazingly. If you just look at, like, from a pure business point of view, I don't know, Facebook acquires Instagram.

19:36Instagram is now far bigger than Facebook. You know, these things can work. And I think in the modern world, scale really matters. But you need aligned cultural values. I don't think what we're thinking about here just in terms of acquisition, and certainly we would not be acquired by an entity with, for example, a strong political viewpoint. I think of this as, I mean, we're opening the door to possibility, and a combination of platforms, resources, skills. I think there's if you ask the question are there many other people out there who cannot stand the way the world's heading right now and who feel this intense yearning for a better future and for rediscovering the best parts of humanity for helping create the means by which we can spread that discovery of how can we be our better selves not just in one country, across countries so forth I think there's a lot of people out there who deeply respond to that.

20:44And there are a lot of resources out there. There are a lot of people out there with huge resources who actually don't know what to do with them. That is a big thing to do. And if there's one thing I've learned, I think we've learned together at Audacious, is that if you want to get stuff done and if you want to raise money often, the best way to do it is not to present a small plan. Present the biggest dream you can dream of. that is what gets people's hearts pumping. So, yeah, I don't think, we don't think Ted's going to be acquired. That's sort of like, I feel like that's in a way the wrong way to think of it.

21:24Yeah, no, I mean, I agree with you. And it's about, for me, it's also about an entity or a combination of people who are really excited to build new things and have a sense for Ted's assets, the unique aspects of our business, also the unique aspect of our brand and what it stands for, the things that we can build and want to build with us, especially around education. So talk a little bit more about those assets, Jay. Chris mentioned you've been TED CEO for four years now. How would you kind of describe the current state of the organization, its financial health? What are the most exciting future opportunities from your perspective?

22:02So everybody here in this room and online, we know we do a lot of things at TED, and often it's complicated to explain all the things that we do, various initiatives and programs. But in simple terms, we have three capabilities that work really beautifully together. We create events, different events around the world, from conferences that are multi-days to short events, TEDx events around the globe, events with partners, and more that we're launching every day. TEDx as an example, and TED.ai is another new one, more new ones coming soon. So the events is one part. We have a fantastic media business, which I think has one of the most powerful media engines to get ideas put out in the world.

22:47We take the ideas from our events, but also we had other ones. We have a growing podcast business, phenomenal following on social media, big communities across the various platform presence on YouTube. And all that really puts out the ideas out in the world. And then the third capability is around education and learning. We have programs and products, everything from TED-Ed, creating programs in schools for young students, all the way to TED at Work, which educates people in the workplace. All these work together, so they feed off of each other. They create this beautiful flywheel, and I think it's a really unique capability.

23:26There aren't many events out there in the world that also create content that gets spread out everywhere. So for us, the events in the media business are very well tuned in. There's probably a great opportunity around education and learning for us when I look at the future. If you put aside for a second the capabilities that I described, probably the most exciting thing we have is the TED brand. And the TED brand was actually created by everybody in this room and everybody on the live stream. because everybody infused meaning into the TED brand. And now it so clearly stands for possibilities, for solutions, for the future, for optimism, and for knowledge.

24:14And so building products in education across lifelong learning, I think education is going to matter more and we're going to have to constantly get educated. I am now probably I need to take a course on how to keep up with AI at my age, right? So I think there's a lot of opportunity to educate people. I'm very excited about that. And as Chris says, I'd love to have, if we have a partner with even more ideas, that's even better. Like think, look at TED and what new ideas can we think about? We have plenty, but we're open to others. That's great. So Jay, you also led TEDx for a number of years before you became TED CEO.

24:51So I feel like you really get community, how generosity and curiosity and adaptability kind of combine. What kind of mindset do you believe we need to have as a whole community as we move through this change and transition? Yeah, well, you know, as you say, I joined TED 11 years ago and my first job was to lead TEDx, because in some ways it was ironic that Chris hired me to do that job because when we met, I didn't really understand how TEDx worked. And when I walked into the building and I met with the now head of TEDx, And I said, well, we have to make this decision. And she said, well, we should go ask the community.

25:31And I was like, what do you mean go ask? It was like this whole notion of, oh, no, we have a community out in the world. And we consult with them and we involve them and we make these decisions. And over time, what I realized is as I travel the world and through TEDx and other communities, the TED brand inspires countless people around the world to do stuff. they then in turn create so much impact and beauty and contribute back so much to TED. And I often thought, how is this working? How is this working? And so much of it came to me at the end was about love and trust. It's people who loved what TED stood for, then they trusted us and then we trusted them.

26:15So I think in this process, maybe love and trust are good guiding principles. It's something that's been guiding us. It's, you know, it's pretty scary to go into the unknown. I said to Chris, was very clear about the fact that he wanted to be very open about this process and do it with the community. I was also aware that it might put people in a state of anxiety. But if we actually know that we can trust each other, I trust that Chris will ultimately make the right decision. He will consult with the leadership team of this organization, with the staff, with members of our community. and we will find some new steward who has a love and appreciation for what TED does.

26:55I think that, and also for the fact that TED is not just a group of 250 people in New York. We are actually tens of thousands of people. If you get TED, you get all of this. So I think that's good to know. So you both mentioned that the entire global TED community will have a say in its future. What do you mean by that specifically? I know there were some tenants that you kind of said about what needs to be true of TED when it gets handed on to the next steward. So just a little bit more about how this community can get involved in this decision or contribute to it. It starts now. I mean, it starts now.

27:35I would like to think that even though I've been the sole director of the TED Foundation, ultimately could make any decision at TED, every decision that's happened has been having by conversation. You know, we've had internal debates and the principle has been best idea wins. And that's, I think, true now. I think I will read, my email is out there, chrisatdead.com. I will read anyone from the community who's got an opinion or who's got a few hundred million dollars or whatever, you know. I will read every email. But it's a mixture of everything. And we will share among the leadership team. Liontree, the investment bank we're working with, I'm very excited about them.

28:28They are creative and thoughtful, and they understand that this is kind of like a media opportunity like no other. There's not much precedent for anything like this. But they kind of love it and are working with the spirit of that. And so I don't know how it plays out, but we will listen to anyone who's got anything to say and try and connect dots. And I think if we've been good at anything, I mean, in a way, the whole reason why, like a TED conference is an amazing experience is that you go in for a few days and you hear an idea here that seems to have no connection to this idea here. But then the next day you hear something here and you go, wait a sec, that actually picks up a bit of that and a bit of that.

29:20And if I, next Tuesday, have a lunch with that person, maybe like every, you connect dots and you do something with them and it's a thrilling process. And so I think this is kind of probably going to be the ultimate dot connecting process. And I don't know what those dots are yet, but I'm, I just, because I believe that there are so many people out there who believe in the future of humanity and understand that we're on a shared mission here. Many of us are on a shared mission. Let's join forces and figure out how to do something amazing. Maybe I can just add very quickly, just for the community, as we embark on this process, we did set up email Chris, by all means he does read all his emails.

30:01We also have an email called nextchapteratted.com. Better. And specifically two areas who I think are important for us to hear from the community at this point. Chris, in his letter to the community, outlined seven questions that we are going to ask potential interested parties. What is your opinion about those? Do you think these are the right questions to ask? Should there be other ones? Any nuance around that? We do want to hear from the community. And of course, if you have ideas, you might not be resourced or lead an organization, but you might think of somebody. send it to us next chapter at TED.com because we are working with a team, we'll give them this idea and we'll go explore it.

30:45Those two things would be really helpful at this point. Just one more question for me before I open it up to the audience. So much of TED's success is shaped by the 200 plus staff who work here today. And in fact, you shared the news with the organization on Monday. how did that go from your perspective and what is your biggest wish for the staff in this rather liminal moment i don't know about you jay i was i was amazed delighted moved by the reaction because i mean that there's any organization would find this unsettling it's like you don't know who is some monster going to come in or what the hell, or are we all going to be fired?

31:37People were incredible. And the level of belief in the org and in the process, love and trust were the two emotions that really hit me. And I was trying hard not to shed a tear, honestly. I find it an absolutely beautiful interaction. I agree. And the only thing I would add is one person asked Chris, hey, if we're feeling nervous, what advice? And he reminded us that one of Ted's values is determined optimism. So you could get anxious or you could be like, this could be great. And I think this is a compliment to Chris, but also removing him from this a little bit. But his values of being open to possibilities, being kind of trusting and determined optimism are actually infused to the 250 people who work here.

32:34And they received it in a manner that we think about it, which is this feels like a big change, but hey, it could be better. Absolutely. All right. We have some questions from the remote audience. a number of people asked about the future of specific programs so TEDx, TEDx, TEDx, TEDxFallows what can you share to assure those tuning in representing those communities that these programs will survive and this is for both of you we believe in all of those programs passionately they all have funding capability as things stand anyway. So, I mean, if you're serious about inviting in a new steward, obviously a new steward may say, we want to focus more on that and grow that and whatever.

33:32But I see nothing but upside for them. I agree. And I think all the programs that we have are actually interconnected. and support each other in very, very meaningful ways. The way I think about it is we are planning to do more, not less. So who knows? I mean, of course, there's possibilities that some changes will come, but we think all the teams and communities and programs are here and they make sense. And so my guess is that they're here to stay. And I would add to that just that I do think that the TEDx community, I mean, you know, there are tens of thousands of people around the world doing TEDx.

34:19We actually don't even know the exact number, I don't think. We know that there's north of 3 ,000 events, but some of those have teams that sometimes involve 100 or more volunteers. and it's, I think that is a massively, that's a sort of an asset. I don't, asset's a very narrow word, but I'm going to use it for now. It's an asset of TED that has huge potential. I mean, this is a group of heroes, global heroes, who are fighting every day to try and spread wisdom, knowledge, community locally. wow that's that's absolutely amazing and i think i think if someone wanted to map a pathway to a better future there is a lot more potentially that we could dream of with with our tedx partners so i mean i i would i would definitely in this whole process would welcome any thoughts from tedx organizers um maybe ask answer this question like what more do you believe you would love to do or could do and and and what would you need to do that is it just permission is it resources you know what is it dream this is a this is a moment to dream that's great all right i'm going to combine two questions one from adam uh ted attendee from california and diana ted extra in new york you listed a wide variety of different options for who might inherit ted who do you actually want it to be.

35:56Where do you believe TED belongs? I'd love to hear more about this because maybe by sharing it you can inspire the audience to make it reality. Hold. I am also scared of the unpredictability of billionaires and we all are. How can we make sure that TED will stay as a non-profit after it's transferred to an extremely rich person? How can we prevent a culture and journalism oligarchy? Sorry, this is why... It's a good question.

36:32Billionaires, the hated billionaires. So I'll say one thing first, just about the Audacious Project, which Anna and I have been building for the last 10 years now, I guess. the audacious project invites anyone who is a dreamer for change typically someone running a you know like a social entrepreneur so what is your biggest dream what could you do if money was no object that the ideas they come up with can take your breath away when you distill those we distill from hundreds down to ten we have a retreat once a year that is basically attended by billionaires. And in the course of two and a half days, we get to see these billionaires in action.

37:29And what you see are people on fire to try to figure out how to use their resources for maximum good. Part of me just wishes that everyone could actually see that process, because billionaires, I mean, to some extent, deservedly have a terrible rap. And I'm not saying that some billionaires in their worst moments do terrible things. They do. But I can promise you, because I've seen it up close, we've seen it up close, that some billionaires

38:09deeply, deeply want to figure out how to use their resources to make a better future. They want to give back. They know they've been lucky. And some billionaires have absolutely unique skills besides money and that, you know, they are bold. They are big thinkers and so forth. So don't be that scared of them. There is a pathway there and there may be an essential part of the pathway to obtaining the resources that we need to, you know, to be great. so so so yeah billionaire philanthropists who possibly in combination um are are absolutely one one possibility and and i think um and obviously it's going to be really important to figure out how how that doesn't go wrong and because there are multiple ways that this could go, we don't have like, you know, here's a written legal constitution that will prevent anything going wrong.

39:14We don't have that yet. We may need to create something depending on how things go. But where, you know, there will be trust and love, but there will also be

39:28verification. We're going to do our damnedest to be very smart about this and to get something up set up that maximizes possibility. But there are plenty of other things that could happen. I mean, I know for a fact that, you know, there are giant media companies out there who some of the people leading those companies have that they really want to contribute to a better future. It's not just about making money. And I think TED might be very, very exciting to some of them. In theory, universities have a mission to spread knowledge. Some universities have ungodly amounts of money sitting there, idling away when it could actually be doing something radical for the world's future.

40:16I'm terrified of bureaucracy and of slowness of decision making and so forth. And so that may be a big obstacle in this. But if you could find someone dynamic or a group who was dynamic from a big university who wanted to expand their mission to, let's say, for want of a better term, free education for the world, we'd listen. We should listen. And that could be amazing. The global tech community, you know, there's lots of resources in this community. There are new ways of creating structures. structures, you know, the challenge with governance structures or something like I mentioned in the note, the possibility of a DAO, a distributed autonomous organization, they don't have a very big proven track record yet of how you manage collaboration in an efficient way.

41:09Governance is hard. But on the other hand, there are millions of people out around the world who believe in TED and who would love to see it gain. Just maybe someone can come up with the structure that pulls together a bunch of people and that could happen. I don't want to restrict the possibilities. I want to be that there may be much better ideas out there than anything we've thought of. I think just starting from the point of view of here is a brand that a lot of people around the world trust and believe in as a good way of inspiring them to, inspiring and empowering them to be their best selves.

41:47What could we do with that? So we should be open, but I genuinely don't know, and I'm excited to find out. And conversely, we don't have any shareholders. You can say no. I think that's also really important. It's not who's the highest bidder. 100 % not. And based on what you've shared about the values of this person, I would presume that an EV the entrepreneur-turned-media platform owner that is upending the government right now, he would not be a potential buyer of TED. You're correct. Great. Just wanted to make that clear. Okay. Any questions in the audience? So you're obviously the Steve Jobs of TED.

42:43and there was a time in history when Steve Jobs left Apple, but then he came back. So I'm looking for what's the mechanism. If we in the community say this new guy who's running TED is driving in the wrong direction and we all want you back, maybe after a year or two years you'll have come to some realization, oh, this could be TED on a much bigger scale. Would you consider coming back? And a new guy or gal or whoever that you used to be. Or entity or a college. I don't actually think of myself as leaving. I'm basically thinking of myself as offering the keys to someone else. But TED has always operated on the basis of best idea wins.

43:33When a group of people who dream together, that can be what happens. And so I guess my hope is that I would stay as an advisor or on the board or involved. And I can sometimes be persuasive and say, you know, like, what if we did this? So I don't think it's about, I don't think it's me going to next and then coming back and, you know, whatever. No, no, no. anyone else in the audience can you pass the mic hello just to put you on the spot for a moment we saw in the evolution of TED that we first had ideas worth spreading and then we moved into ideas change everything and I know there are massive teams of marketers and branding experts that create these taglines but if you had to off where you are right now how are you thinking about phase 3 how could you simply define what is possible for us in terms of what that next tagline might look like?

44:43I mean, I do think ideas change everything is powerful. The reason we went with that was to state very clearly, you know, in a world of all these other memes that are being spread, you know, doom scrolling or whatever, that ideas are worth investing your time in, that you can have a few moments of satisfying pleasure doing this, but if you actually want to impact the future of your life and the world, get involved in ideas. They're powerful, man. They're really, they watch. So I think on any scenario, I'm happy with that as a tagline. I mean, you could picture teaming up with people who just believe in trying to build a better future for humanity.

45:40And, you know, maybe, you know, it can change. But depending on who the new partner, partners are, we'll see. But ideas change. Everything is great. And by the way, in the TV show that we're working on, the power of those words, I think, will be more evident than ever. And so I'm very happy with that as a mission statement. Just a couple of fun facts to add. First of all, I don't know if you know that Scott Dadich was the head of the branding agency that worked with us on the Brand Refresh. It's sitting right next to you. So thank you. He's partially, and through his generosity, through his generosity of the TED community also did a lot of pro bono work with us.

46:35So thank you, Scott. Also, that brand refresh just happened. We did it for our 40th anniversary. And our thoughts were already brewing about this. We need to usher in a new era for TED. And that ideas change everything is very suitable, we think, for the next decade or two. and is beautifully positioning us to think bigger, to understand why this really matters, double down on it and bringing in a partner that really cares about it. Not just about virality. It's not just about clicks. It's not just about one extra view. It is about doing things that are really, really meaningful. That moment was so quintessentially, Ted.

47:17Any other questions from the audience? Yes. So Chris, you began and said something really powerful about the journey in media and how media's change has impacted Ted. And I'd love if you would just talk a little bit more, particularly about the next partner, owner, whatever it's going to end up being, and how they're bringing new vision about the community piece of connection. Because social media is, at the core, a part of this problem. And I was delighted that you said it the way you did. I mean, I don't know what they'll bring because I don't know who they are yet. And if you want, if part of, we should talk in a minute about convening and the actual physical, you know, that role of tech, because I think that's incredibly important as well.

48:02But just sticking with the media piece for a bit, you know, distribution really, really matters. so there are people who could team up with us and could give us, for example, worldwide distribution in terms of streaming, in terms of TV, you know, whatever. That would be amazing and I think we might surprise and delight them with what we have to offer. Like I think there is so much starting with the community of amazing speakers and ideas that we have, those can be turned into media assets that look not necessarily just like TED Talks, but go much deeper and reveal powerful ideas in a way that will work for a media company globally.

48:58But the exact set of resources they have, there's many different forms that that comes in. And the other thing that will make a huge difference is literally just financial investment instead of developing some of this stuff. So it doesn't have to be a media company or whatever. But I think media distribution will be a big part of it. But without the algorithmic? Well, not without that algorithm. like an algorithm, if the social media networks had said, here's our algorithm, we want content that helps people become their best selves. And so that when they spend half an hour on our platform, they will say, thank God I spent that half hour, that was so great.

49:42As opposed to spending half an hour and then hating themselves and hating other people. Those algorithms could be written and could be built. So it's not about an algorithm perspective. We're entering a future where algorithms are going to be ever more powerful. What we need to do collectively is persuade the powerful platforms to change the poison that they're unintentionally putting out there and to invest in helping people become their best selves. All right, so if you can pass the mic to one final question, whoever wants to take it in the audience. Oh, there we go. Barry. Hey, guys. I hate to be a wet blanket, but as a journalist, I do want to ask, we're in the lovely phase of possibilities and thinking about these things, but what if there isn't a gal or guy or entity that steps forward?

50:42I want to ask about a timeline. What do you see in terms of short-term, long-term if things don't pop into your inbox? if things if no one shows up plan b is that i will we will create a board for the ted foundation and inviting people invite a group of people to put in resources on any scenario i think ted needs a a significant injection of funds so that we can dream big we can we can dream we can be the thing that the world needs us to be. And we may, you know, I think having, weirdly, the very visibility of this process increases the chances of us being able to do that. If I was just to go out and raise money, people would say, yeah, yeah.

51:37But doing it this way, conversations are going to be had with a bunch of different people. And I think, you know, I think excitement will be spread. So that, I guess, is plan B. What's joyful about this is that there's no crisis. You know, there's no cash flow emergency. There's no outside shareholder saying, resign, resign. Not at all. All there is is opportunity. There's an incredible team here. Some of them are in this room right now. So much talent, so many ideas. We just need some more fuel to do that, to take on the very challenging forces that are out there in the world right now. So one way or another, something magical is going to happen.

52:25Yeah, and maybe just to add minutia a little bit of just sharing how this evolved. So originally, when we first started having this conversation, plan A was to create a board that Chris would build and bring people in. And that was kind of like the obvious thing to do. Then once he started thinking about, oh, what if we actually opened it up to possibility and really explored what could be plan A then became plan B, right? So, but I'm not, I have trust that the process is going to work because it's going to be great no matter what. If we have a great entity or individual stepping forward, we'll do that.

53:02If not, we'll build a great board. Our business is growing. It continues to grow this year. We have an incredible plan for 25. We're doing more things. We're growing 10 % on the revenue side. So everything feels really good. It's stable and it's growing. And from there, we can really see who comes in and what we can dream from there. That's great. Thank you, Manoush. One final question from a global audience. Is there, Gio Camo from Milan, Italy, is there a possibility of a not US-based future for TED? Absolutely. I mean, TED isn't a US thing. It's a global thing. It's for the world. Ideas are for the world.

53:38Ideas are for everyone. The conference started in America where many of our staff are American and we're based here, but many of our staff aren't American and TEDx is already a global phenomenon. We've had many events outside the U.S. We're open to big ideas from anywhere. Especially if they're in Milan.

54:10All right, so we're going to wrap up here. One final question for you, Chris, about legacy. You're inching towards 70. You have plenty more years ahead of you. But as you look back at your time at TED, what are you most proud of and what do you most hope will be your legacy? Well, first of all, if you believe Ray Kurzweil, if I can just survive another six years, I'll live forever. You know, it's like longevity liftoff. I mean I'm most proud of this stumbling on this idea of letting go that is the it's been the most amazing thing that has made all of this possible when I bought Ted as a sort of shivering semi-broken failed entrepreneur who's you know I thought he was a business god and then discovered I was crap because the dot-com crisis blew up my company and I was it was horrible and it was like I need somewhere to go and lick my wounds and these seem like awfully nice people and how incredible to get a chance just to live in the world of ideas and so forth and oh maybe there is a bit of inspiration here that could do some good things in the world and so it started off very low ambition I didn't know what it was going to lead to, it felt like there was something here because of there was so much passion at TED, so much inspiration.

55:39It felt like there was a flame there that wanted to burn brighter, but I didn't know how. And so it was this discovery that you let go of stuff and holy crap, that actually worked. We gave away our best stuff and it didn't destroy the conference. It actually made more people want to come to the conference. Wow. This community is deeply generous at heart. They didn't blame us for giving away their content so that they now had wasted their money. They said, thank you, because now we can share this with our friends and family. That was incredible. And seeing that happen again with, really with TED Ed and Fellows in a way, and then TEDx in the most astonishing way.

56:29And all that that led to, Audacious was in its own way an outspread of that. So this idea that, so that's what I'd say, the idea of strategic generosity. It's like it's not Sunday school, generosity, goody-goody, two-shoes. It's like we're in a connected world. People have generosity in them. If you can trigger it, ripple effects at astonishing scale can happen. So that, I guess, would be it. And I just feel so lucky that that, you know, we hit on that. And it happened. It was a collective thing from the people who were around at every stage who were excited by doing that. Well, take your flowers, Chris.

57:18There'll be plenty of moments for further gratitude and thanks. But on behalf of Jay, the audience, the staff, I want to deeply express my gratitude for your stewardship. of TED these past 25 years. You have an unparalleled ability to catalogs generosity, wonder, curiosity, and it has been one of the most powerful experiences to be witness to that these past 17, 11, many years. Thank you. Thank you.

57:53That was head of TED, Chris Anderson, in conversation with TED CEO Jay Harati and the executive director of the Audacious Project, Anna Verghese, at the TED Theater in New York City. Before we let you go, in the spirit of new and open ideas, we wanted to take a moment to ask you, our TED Talks Daily listeners, what you'd like to see from TED in the future. What kind of programming or content do you want more of in this new chapter? Call us with your thoughts at 929-695-2650. That's 929-695-2650. We can't wait to hear from you. If you're curious about TED's curation, find out more at ted.com slash curation guidelines.

58:33And that's it for today's show. TED Talks Daily is part of the TED Audio Collective. This episode was produced and edited by our team, Martha Estefanos, Oliver Friedman, Brian Green, Lucy Little, Alejandra Salazar, and Tonsika Sarmanivon. Additional support from Emma Taubner and Daniela Ballarezzo. I'm Elise Hu. I'll be back tomorrow with a fresh idea for your feed. Thanks for listening. Thank you.