Sunday Pick: The poetry of Nepal's bridges | Far Flung

0:06Hello, TED Talks Daily listeners. I'm Elise Hu. For today's Sunday pick, we're bringing you an episode of another podcast from the TED Audio Collective, handpicked by us for you. There is a place where a network of thousands of bridges connects pretty much everything. I know the image of thousands of bridges sounds fantastical, but this isn't fiction. This place really exists. And we're taking you there with the help of the podcast Far Flung. Host Salim Reshamwala takes us to Nepal, home of the tallest mountains in the world and the land of many bridges, and digs into how these structures shape the way the Nepalese perceive connection, community, and what's important to hold onto in life.

0:53To hear more unique ideas and stories from around the globe, check out Far Flung, available wherever you get your podcasts. Now on to the episode right after a quick break.

1:16You're hearing the sound of wind on the longest-spanned pedestrian bridge in the world, the Baglang-Parbutt footbridge in Nepal. It stretches over 500 meters, about 1 ,600 feet, between the midhills of Nepal. Now, hills in Nepal are very, very different from what the rest of the world might call hills On this bridge between two hills, there's a river below you, absurdly small looking Because it's 122 meters, that's 400 feet down You're 400 feet up in the air 400 feet Just for comparison, if you took the Statue of Liberty and stacked another Statue of Liberty on top of it, you'd still have 98 feet to go until you reach this very thin wire suspension bridge.

2:12I'm not scared at all. In this recently built long bridge, my husband was scared at first, but I crossed it effortlessly without feeling scared.

2:24It's such a pleasant thing being on a bridge. It takes you from one place to another so easy, without any risk. I really enjoy being on it. Now people even go to the bridge to just see it. People consider crossing the long bridge to be a spectacle now.

2:47Many people say they feel scared on a bridge because it is shaky or something like that. But I feel so safe that I feel like I'm in my own house. In their own house. On a thin strip of metal in the sky. I'm Salim Rashmwala, and from TED, this is Far Flung. In every episode, we visit a different location to understand ideas that flow from that place. And today, we're heading to one of the most mountainous places on Earth to see how building bridges creates connections, and not just between two points. Now, Nepal is known for extremely high mountains, but it's easy to forget that people are moving across those mountains.

3:33In most places, you might not think twice about a bridge you cross, but in Nepal, bridges are fundamental to survival. the only way to move without trekking up and down a huge mountain. It's a place where bridges are constantly being born. All kinds of bridges. Rope, steel, trees, bamboo log bridges that are basically floating on top of the water that they help you cross, and bridges that sing in the wind unimaginably high above you. And when you live as high up in the air as some of the people we're talking to today, when getting to your town or village might be days of hiking up and down massive elevations, well, a bridge, it changes everything.

4:18The spark for this episode came from a line from a poem called Tuin by Strawburn Mukarong. It's about crossing a particularly dangerous kind of Nepalese bridge. I will hold on to a tuin. If I reach across, I will see the world. But if I fall, I will become a fish. He thinks of himself as the people's poet. He often writes about rural Nepal, and here he's writing about the fine line between life and death when a person makes a dangerous journey hanging from a wire-crossing bridge. Here's how Nepalese tuins work. There's a single wire rope and pulley system for getting you across dangerous heights.

5:00You can transport everything from practical goods hanging in baskets to groups of, say, 12 schoolchildren all attached to the wire, harnessed in with nothing else below them. Mukarung was born in 1968 when most bridges in Nepal were in this style. The first memories I have of that time and bridges, I remember the river in my village. I would have been seven, eight years old. We would cross the small river to go to the nearby village. What we had then, we cannot really call that a bridge. The first thing I crossed was just a wooden crossing, or partke. Partke was made from a tree log and laid out along the river for people to cross.

5:52The other kinds were made by tying bamboos together and sprawled out as river crossings. These were temporary structures and could be used only during the dry winter months, but they would be swept away by the floods during monsoon season. This was how I was introduced to bridges. I mean, I'm not sure I would have known to call that a bridge either. Bamboo tied together, disappearing every season? It's so ephemeral, and not a thing to be crossed casually. But even as bridges get stronger, even on a sturdier wire bridge, how do people even get their mind right to cross? The first metal wire suspension bridges, which replaced the wooden and bamboo crossings, were extremely shaky.

6:42You needed to catch the rhythm of the bridge's sway to be able to walk on it. The bridge sways on its own rhythm, but that rhythm is created by the impact of our feet on it. It almost creates a musicality. It is obviously scary at first, but eventually you get used to the rhythm of the sway. So if you catch the rhythm of the bridge, you will cross easily. But if you fail to catch the rhythm, then you might not be able to move and might have to crouch down in the middle, and you can never overcome the fear. The first time you step on it, you're of course scared. Scared of falling off. Scared even of dying.

7:27As I recall, people from my village would travel to faraway villages for special festivals, fets, and local markets. One of my own aunts had traveled to a weekly local market to sell piglets. She reached the market, sold them off, but while returning, she fell off one of such bridges and died. Falling off these bridges and dying are common. It made people experience the space between life and death. It gives a traveler a new curiosity and a new imagination. That's what I think when I think about bridges. First, the fine balance between life and death. you can either fall off and die or go out and see the world and second, that new imagination and curiosity.

8:19To explore that story of life and death, that imagination and curiosity, we needed to talk to people on the ground. Hi, my name is Nayan. I am a researcher slash translator based in Kathmandu. My interests lie in culture, society and politics of Nepal. Hello, my name is Ramjan. I'm a musician, DJ, producer, and I also record sounds from different places and different occasions. And I love to use them in my music or my sessions. Here's one of his tracks, working with found sounds.

9:07While visiting relatives in India years ago, I took a side trip to Nepal, stayed in Kathmandu, the capital where a lot of tourists start, took a six to seven hour van ride to Pokhara, arrived absurdly early, and climbed to a viewing point in the darkness. I remember holding my sun on my shoulders. The cold air had this crispness to it. And seeing the sun spread a beautiful, rich, reflective gradient across all the mountains around us. At least, they were what I would call mountains. But Nayan, he corrected me. So Katmandu-Bukhara are the valleys in the mid hills, right? But if you go further north, then we're talking about the mountains.

9:50And for a regular audience, like mountains and hills are different. One of my American friends from college came to visit. And then she lands in Kathmandu and Kathmandu is surrounded by hills for us, but apparently mountains for a lot of people. I told her like, yeah, you'll see some hills, like smaller hills from Kathmandu. And she just comes out of the door from the aircraft and she was like, what the hell? These are the craziest mountains I've ever seen. But you go further up north than the real mountains. For us, mountains have to be snow-capped, right? So, like, they have to be white and silvery.

10:28I love that distinction that, you know, if it's not white, snow-capped, and silvery, maybe some clouds around it, then it's a hill to y 'all. Yeah, yeah. Very, very, very important distinction. Ranjan and Nayan are going to help us find out how these bridges, these connectors of mountains being born again and again, are changing the country. So Nepal is by area, it's a pretty small country, but it stretches from east to west. So north, south of Nepal is very, like as the crow flies, very short. But within these less than 200 kilometers of average distance between north and south, you have triumphant this geographic diversity.

11:13Both Ranjan and Nayan grew up in Nepal. Ranjan's from the southern plains region. In terms of language, food and culture, it's pretty similar to the northern part of India. It's very flat, so it was relatively easy for him to get around. But Nayan? I come from what used to be a pretty remote and disconnected place. Right now, with all the road connectivity, it's pretty close by. Like, it's not very far as the crow flies, which is a big disclaimer in Nepal. Like, it's a small country, but, like, sometimes it might be just, like, 80 kilometers as the crow flies, but might take, like, you know, eight hours on these crazy roads in the bus or, like, two days of walk or something like that, right?

11:55Right. You'll hear as the crow flies a few times in this episode. But keep in mind that crows flying across gigantic epic mountains have it way easier than people going up and down them. So As the Crow Flies tells you basically nothing about how long a journey will be. As Nayeon started traveling around the country, he started realizing just how diverse Nepal's geography is and how even short trips put him in totally new environments. If you travel from southern plains, And like within half an hour, you get so much elevation and you are in a very cold place. Like the south of Nepal is generally warmer, right?

12:35And then as you're driving south to north from anywhere in Nepal, then you gain so much altitude so immediately, then you're immediately in 30 minutes of driving. You are in a completely new climate, new temperature, new geography, new way of life, new food, new dress up, new, Even like sort of the people's sort of like facial features and like the ethnic groups and they all change. It's an extremely diverse country in that sense. If you ask an outsider to picture Nepal, they might think of the Himalayas, those white snow-capped silvery mountains highest in the world. But travel down toward the midhills, which are still giant, and you'll see what look like tiny threads connecting them.

13:21The scale of these bridges can be completely deceptive. They are such a huge, not only like sort of physical material presence, but they are visual presence in any Nepalese experience, right? One really, really striking thing of working in this project, no one really thinks about bridges, like is there something to think about? But once you ask questions about bridges to people, once you ask people to reflect about bridges, My God, they have stories. There are a lot of songs. There are a lot of poetry that people have written. Like, you know, it's always like, you know, I'm on this side, you're on the other side, and it's monsoon.

13:59Like, we'll not meet for another three months. I love that it's causing poetry and songs. Like this one. The morning sun beams off freshly tempered steel. Giant metal arcs compress deep into the ground, suspended into the clouds, like a single metal wing discarded between heaven and earth. It sways back and forth That's Gaurab Subba An emcee and spoken word poet and friend of Nayan's Nayan was telling Gaurab about his trip And he was inspired to start writing Curiosity lingers as they open the doors But none take steps across the cable floors Make room, they say, for the mules that cross with heavy loads If they fall, what is not loved is not lost there's this reaching when you cross a bridge you have to trust that the bridge itself will hold you but you're also trusting that the other side of the bridge this often unknown place will be worth the trip a little insurance couldn't hurt that's after the break

15:14We're back with our earlier poet, Strahbar Mukaram, discussing a Nepali tradition around crossing bridges. It is in our tradition to bow down and pay respect to the hills, to the rivers. It is a manifestation of the harmony and an acknowledgement that life is only possible because of this coexistence with nature. Even though we make the bridges, it is vital to our life, and so we need to worship it. It is a belief that the bridge will reciprocate our faith and lead us to our destinations. There might also be a psychological side to making an offering to the bridge, so that you don't lose focus and balance on the bridge.

15:57You need to be in a state of meditation to cross the bridge. A state of meditation? That's such a specific mindset. It's borderline spiritual. and crossing these bridges creates connection. People aren't the only things that cross. With them comes information, ideas, traditions, new ways of thinking and doing. People do business on the other side of that bridge. Children can now go to school to learn on the other side of that bridge. I mean, people will fall in love and maybe have babies with folks they meet on the other side of the bridge. With the creation of a bridge in a place with so much isolation, All concepts of identity and geography, even the limits of what's possible, they suddenly shift.

16:48These bridges connected societies in every sense of the word. Economically, socially, connecting people of different castes and ethnicities, different occupational groups, different languages and cultures. We need bridges not only to facilitate our physical needs and services for better survival, but also to join these different communities. For facilitating that process of greater mobility of all citizens and greater interaction and exchanges, we need bridges. But what about places that can't build a strong bridge? In many places where people can't build proper bridges, they have to depend on basic wire crossings or tuins.

17:36Such harsh realities still exist in remote places of the country, where kids are still forced to cross rivers through these dangerous tuins to go to school. Unlike proper bridges, tuins are much more fragile and riskier. You have to literally hang in a wire to get across. Your chances of making it across are equal to the chances of you falling down into the river. It is an immensely risky journey. But being aware of death, being close to it as you move through a commute or a journey, for Mukharam, that doesn't need to lead to a life of fear or cynicism. It exists in that great uncertainty. One needs to get across that uncertain journey of life.

18:27It is a poem about uncertainty, not about fatalism. I will hold on to a tuin. If I reach across, I will see the world. But if I fall, I will become a fish. So, aside from the danger, why are these crossings filled with so much emotion? The crossing of the bridge marks an episode of sadness and tragedy. As the person leaves for abroad, he leaves behind sadness and uncertainty, to their beloved, their kins, and their neighbors. They might die in the distant land and never come back. They might forget the homeland and make families in the strange land. Had there been no bridges and the villages remained isolated, maybe the person would never have left.

19:20On the other side, some person returns, back after working abroad for a long time, and also crosses the bridge. In this, the bridge becomes a symbol of his journey, of that full circle. The bridge would be the final thing to support the person complete his long journey back home. Here's Gaurab Subba to help keep that scale in perspective. This suspension will not take you from Long Beach to Manhattan, but it might, if you take a step, take you from your past to what's happened. And just imagine the compassion of courage it takes to take that step.

20:03So we're in this like new highway. So now we're on the road with Nayan and Vranjan. Location in a little over an hour. Is there any name given to this highway? It goes along one of these three major river systems in Nepal by the name Kali Gandhaki. So it's one of those three major river systems flowing from the Amalis into the south, eventually goes into Bay of Bengal. So this is called like Ali Gondaki Corridor because most of this highway goes along this river, which is very scenic and one of the more beautiful places to drive. Oh, look, another breeze. I mean, you will see a lot of those. It's not even a major one.

20:48Is that a new one or the old one? I mean, I cannot even tell. There are so many bridges along the road. And they continue driving, making it to an incredibly busy outdoor market full of fruit stalls, restaurants, the local equivalent of a bodega. And it's part of the lead-up to the biggest of those bridges, the Baglang Parbat footbridge, the over-two-statues-of-Liberty-tall bridge that we began with. It's one thing to see it in papers, read about it, see videos, but it's a completely different thing to be there. It just goes on and on and on and on and it becomes like smaller and smaller and almost disappears in the horizon other side.

21:28When I really looked at it, it was beyond my imagination. Sometimes you look at massive things and your mind stops actually.

21:41there's that state of meditation that Mukharung told us about I thought Ranjan and I would be talking under breeze but no we went our own ways and we were all silent I think that was sort of like a special energy there

22:05I'm curious Who did you meet and talk to at the bridge? I would love for you to, could you describe those folks for me and tell me what you learned from them? We met like a lovely bunch of people. One of them was a government official, a middle to low range official, who was our first point we started with. And we didn't expect much, but he was such a jolly person. He also sang for us. Yeah, he also sang for us.

22:32What you're hearing is a love song. He's singing about seeing his love on the terraces of a field, maybe sitting on the ground or, even more picturesque, perched on the branch of a tree. Fittingly, the landscape makes her unattainable. Our meeting is impossible, he says. My love is across the river, while I cry on this shore.

23:00Later, Nayan and Ranjan met an elderly gentleman who told the story of a local man who wanted to build one of the initial bridges across the Kali Gandaki River.

23:14He went to Kolkata to bring back iron, which an ironsmith of the Bispo Kormakas from here made into chains to build a bridge across the Kali Gandaki River. That is how it began. He would measure the span of rivers and bring enough cables to make bridges. It was done entirely by the people. A road was built to Nodara around 1970 when the SBR was built. Cables would be dropped off at Nodara. Citizens from here would carry those cables here on their shoulders. You'd have to take turns, rest to eat. Entire villages would travel to carry back the cables. People of that time worked so hard. There's no comparison between people then and people now.

24:05So many people were swept away as they crossed the river. That encouraged people to build bridges. There's no river or stream left now without a bridge. It's a huge shift. Here's Gaurab again. Half a day's walk to school traded for ten treacherous minutes on a single wire, a pulley, and a wooden trolley. Innocence finds courage, finds strength to pull themselves across the length. Suspended in clouds, typhoons swell underneath. There is no lightning, only currents that pull beneath. A half day of walking. I've never lived anywhere so isolated. How's that feel for a kid? Did you ever feel isolated when you were growing up in Nepal?

24:52Actually not, because the world for you was this bounce, that little valley that was a world enough in itself. You had just one shop, you could not spend 20 pence, and life was good, man. So that idea of like something existing out there, I mean, in hindsight, Breezuda played a part for me and my own awareness of the world existing beyond that little valley that I grew up in. I feel a lot of other things. Isolation wasn't one of them. I love that distinction that when you have your whole world around you, you can't feel isolated. You have the whole world. Exactly. How's that change a place from feeling like you have the whole world in your little village?

25:35to actually being connected to the outside world.

25:41It feels like a different place. And that's very reflective of how Debal's changed in my lifetime. I'm in mid-30s. I've seen this place change absolutely in every sense of the word, economically, politically, in terms of the connectivity of the people. That coincides with all these roots. One example that I can think of in terms of how my beliefs had changed, And it continues to change at a mind-bobbling rate. Every time I go home, like, one year after, two years after, right? Now, the people would make their own, like, sort of local millet brews or local alcohol. But now, like, people are, like, all these bottled beers and bottled liquors.

26:19You know, that's all with the breezes and the roads connecting people. Of course, like, you know, I would be careful not to romanticize the childhood I had because it was tough, like, and it was tougher for a lot of people. But it's become much easier. but the police has become unrecognizable. It's such an interesting balance between trying not to romanticize but also still remembering the good things that happen. Oh, absolutely, yes. There's absolutely a loss of innocence somehow, but it's someone who has done decently well or has decent means in life. So I think it's not fair to say that just because innocence has been lost isn't worth all the changes that the breezes and roads have brought now.

27:03It's so interesting thinking of a bridge as having an element of loss of innocence. I feel like we've got to give the last word to a poet. Every step is a glimpse of possibility, every pull and inspiration to reach the other side. But while you are here in the process of crossing, just remember you are attached to nothing yet connected to everything.

27:48Far Flung is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Newsom of Magnificent Noise for TED. Our local producers for this episode are Nayan Pokril and Ranjan Zha. Our production staff includes Sabrina Farhi, Elise Blenar-Hassett, Huwate Gitana, Bamben Chang, Sammy Case, and Michelle Quint, with the guidance of Roxanne Highlash and Colin Helms. Translations by Nayan Pokril and Praween Adhikari. Special thanks to Gaurab Subba for the use of his poem, Sekar Parajuli, for field interview support, and to Sushrut Acharya, Praojyan Tapagimire, Radha Brahma, Saujanya Acharya, and Biraj Maharajan for our English voiceover.

28:42Our fact checkers are Nicole Bodhi and Paul Durbin. Ad stories are produced by Transmitter Media. This episode was mixed and sound designed by Kristen Muller. Additional music by Ranjan Zha.

29:02Our executive producer is Eric Newsom. I'm Salim Reshimwala.

29:19NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory, California Institute of Technology