You got what you wanted. Now what? | Debbie Millman

0:03You're listening to TED Talks Daily, where we bring you new ideas to spark your curiosity every day.

0:09Debbie Millman: I'm your host, Elise Hu. I interviewed a famous painter about a recent exhibition, a show that had taken years to create. Given the magnitude of the accomplishment, I asked her how long the feeling of pride lasted after opening night. She looked at me, she smiled sheepishly and stated, about 11 minutes. Those of you who listen to any of Ted's podcasts will know that voice belongs to Debbie Millman, designer, author, educator, and host of Design Matters, one of the first and longest running podcasts in the world. Debbie has spent more than 20 years and conducted more than 1 ,000 interviews. Yes, you heard that number right.

0:56Exploring what drives people to create and what creativity really means in the first place. In this talk, she explores what she has learned over the years and shares a surprising realization she had about what happens after we finally get the thing we've been chasing. That's coming up right after a short break.

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4:07And now, our TED Talk of the day.

4:09Debbie Millman: For the last 20 years, I've interviewed hundreds of people about their motivation to create, their ambition, and what it feels like to be whole and at home in the world on my podcast, Design Matters. in one episode several years ago I interviewed a famous painter about a recent exhibition a show that had taken years to create given the magnitude of the accomplishment I asked her how long the feeling of pride lasted after opening night she looked at me she smiled sheepishly and stated, about 11 minutes. I thought she was joking, but she wasn't. Since that interview, I've come to realize she's not the only one whose achievements feel ephemeral and fleeting, not by a long shot.

5:16Debbie Millman: Over the past four years, in addition to my interviews, I've conducted my own version of a Proustian questionnaire for print magazine. Hundreds of creative people have answered the same 10 questions about their life and their work. Given the response I had with the famous painter, I included this question. How long does the feeling of pride and joy at accomplishing something last for you. As I collected my responses to the questionnaire and reviewed all of my transcripts of my interviews and conversations, I saw how up close for so many people, the pride and joy of accomplishment dissipates almost as quickly as it manifests.

6:10Debbie Millman: I heard it in the words of a poet who shared that the high of publishing a book lasted until she sent in her final manuscript. I heard it in the voice of a designer who admitted he felt restless the very night of an awards ceremony. And I heard it in the plaintive confession of a musician who told me, The only time I feel at peace is when I'm in the studio. Not on stage, not after. Only while I'm making. Another confession. I've felt this way my whole life. After publishing a book. After mounting an exhibition. After a TED Talk. After what should feel like I've reached the pinnacle. moments I've dreamed of for decades, the joy evaporates within days, sometimes hours, and once terrifyingly within minutes.

7:16Debbie Millman: And then, for so many people, what happens next? The quest to create, to make something bigger, more ambitious, or more challenging begins again. I found this all utterly confounding, and I became consumed with the question of why. Why does the feeling of creative achievement slip away almost as soon as we grasp it? Why are we in such a rush to want something more? Is it ego, ambition, addiction to attainment? We're living in a culture now obsessed with achievement. and we measure that success with metrics, likes, views, followers, awards, trophies, sales, and we celebrate the hustle. We glorify the grind and we equate visibility with value.

8:15Debbie Millman: Now, after 20 years of interviewing more than a thousand people, I've come to believe that something else is at play. When I look at the creative people I admire most, I see people answering a calling. A calling that says create, shape, build, imagine, express. Not necessarily to be seen, but to be. What if the actual reward is not accomplishment, but the act of creating? Think about it. The finished products and trappings of creative accomplishment are often seen as the goal. And if we haven't yet reached mastery, we're told we have to fake it until we make it. Pretend. But I don't think people should have to fake anything.

9:11Debbie Millman: Instead, I'd rather make it until I make it. You see, I believe that the act of making is like oxygen. When the making stops, it becomes hard to breathe. Now, I admit, I still struggle with this. I crave recognition. I still measure myself by external markers of success. And I'm still racing towards multiple finish lines. But I'm learning, albeit slowly, that these moments will never, ever be enough. They can't be, because in the end, they represent a certain scarcity, while making is the actual abundance. Several years ago, I interviewed David Lee Roth, the swashbuckling former frontman of the rock group Van Halen.

10:08Debbie Millman: I first became a fan of the band in the mid-1980s after the release of their five-time platinum album 1984. The record sold over 12 million copies, produced four singles, peaked at number two on the Billboard charts, and was only held back from the number one position by Michael Jackson's thriller. I interviewed David Lee in 2019 and asked him what it felt like to reach the peak of the tallest mountain in his storied career. He paused and was reflective as he recalled the experience, and what he said next really surprised me. He told me, you have to be really careful when you reach that peak, as it's always cold, you're often alone, and there's only one direction to go.

11:07Debbie Millman: And it occurred to me right then and there that I didn't want to peak until the day before I die. And I wanted to take my time slowly walking up that mountain, making new things all along the way. So the next time you finish anything, a book, a poem, a song, a painting, try not to despair. That fleeting feeling of accomplishment isn't a flaw. It's part of the creative condition. Instead, heed the calling, continue to make things, and maybe, just maybe, take your time becoming the creative being that you want to be. Thank you.

12:03That was Debbie Millman speaking at TED Next 2025. If you're curious about TED's curation, find out more at ted.com slash curation guidelines. And that's it for today. TED Talks Daily is part of the TED Audio Collective. This talk was fact-checked by the TED Research Team and produced and edited by our team, Martha Estefanos, Oliver Friedman, Brian Green, Lucy Little, and Tonsika Sungmarnivong. This episode was mixed by Christopher Faze-Bogan. Additional support from Emma Taubner and Daniela Balarezo. I'm Elise Hu. I'll be back tomorrow with a fresh idea for your feed. Thanks for listening. Thank you.

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