André 3000

In short

Podcast Notes: Tetragrammaton with Rick Rubin - Episode: André 3000

Episode Overview In this episode, Rick Rubin interviews André Benjamin, famously known as André 3000, a legendary musician celebrated for his work as a rapper, singer, songwriter, and actor. Known for being half of the iconic hip hop duo Outkast, André discusses his artistic evolution, recent projects, and the philosophy behind his music.

Key Themes and Discussions

Artistic Evolution
André discusses his journey from hip hop to exploring more ambient and instrumental music.
He describes his recent works, including:
*New Blue Sun* - An ambient flute album released in 2023 that received three Grammy nominations.
*7 Piano Sketches* - A collection of improvised piano pieces, representing a shift towards personal and intimate artistry.

The Nature of Music
Music as a Diary: André likens his new works to personal diaries, capturing moments in time rather than striving for perfection.
Connection to Instrumentation: He emphasizes the importance of breath instruments (like flutes) and their connection to human emotion, as they reflect the player's breath directly.
Improvisation vs. Perfection: André expresses a desire for raw and human sounds as opposed to the quantized perfection often found in modern music.

Creative Process
Finding Instruments: André shares his passion for collecting flutes and other instruments from around the world, often discovering unique pieces during tours.
Collaborative Music Creation: He describes the process of recording with a group, focusing on freeform and improvisational music, which contrasts with traditional structured songwriting.
Influence of Environment: The energy of the space and the audience plays a significant role in shaping the musical performance.

Personal Reflections and Philosophy
Aging and Creativity: At nearly 50, André reflects on the changes in his creativity and mindset, acknowledging the wisdom that comes with age while still feeling youthful at heart.
Connection to the Audience: He enjoys the unpredictability of live performances, where both he and the audience experience a collective moment of creation.
Judgment of Self: André speaks candidly about being self-critical but recognizes the importance of moving past negative self-assessment for personal growth.

Cultural and Spiritual Influences
Mixed Musical Influences: He speaks of his childhood experiences with diverse music genres from his parents, incorporating elements of gospel, funk, and hip hop.
Spiritual Experiences: Reflecting on breathwork and psychedelic experiences, he discusses how these have influenced his approach to music and creativity.

Key Takeaways

André 3000’s recent works mark a significant shift towards exploring non-hip hop genres, emphasizing personal expression and the beauty of imperfection.
His journey highlights the importance of improvisation in music and the emotional connection that breath instruments can evoke.
The value of authentic experiences and the importance of community in creative processes are central themes in his philosophy.
Aging is viewed positively, with a focus on the richness of experiences that come with time, enhancing artistic expression.

Additional Insights

Cultural Commentary: André’s perspective adds depth to the conversation around the evolution of hip hop and the broader music industry, showcasing the potential for genre fluidity.
Future Directions: With a wealth of unreleased material and a clear vision for his artistic path, André hints at continued exploration and experimentation in his music.

Conclusion This episode offers a profound insight into the life and artistry of André 3000, revealing his introspective nature and innovative spirit. Through his reflections, listeners gain an appreciation for the evolving landscape of music and the importance of personal truth in artistic expression.

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Hear the part that matters, and keep it.Open this episode in VO. Double tap your headphones to save a moment as you listen.

Get VO free

Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:00Athenium is a new podcast on the Tecrogrammaton network.

0:10Do you know about the connection between Charlie Manson and MK Ultra, the US government's mind control operation? What if everything you thought you knew about the Manson murders? Was wrong? Join Ayesha Akali for a once in a lifetime in -depth conversation with Tom O 'Neal. Author of the Runaway Best Seller, Chaos, Charles Manson, the CIA, and the secret history of the 60s. In this limited deep dive series, Tom O 'Neal unpacks his 20 -year investigation into the CIA's Mind Control Program linking it to Charles Manson and the disturbing secrets buried in America's history. From missing FBI files to Hollywood cover -ups, governments surveillance, LSD, and the dark collapse of the 60s hippie dream.

1:00This is the story behind the story. It's not true crime, it's true chaos. Hear it on Athenium, the new podcast on the Tecrogrammaton podcast network, available wherever you get your podcasts. Truth isn't just stranger than fiction, it's far more dangerous. Coming soon on the Athenium podcast.

1:33Tecrogrammaton.

1:53Sometimes I just, to get an idea down, I just, you know, put on your voice notes and record from my iPhone. And so I started just putting the iPhone on the piano when I wake up just to record whatever I'm doing. And as a fun thing, I would send these kind of little shorts, sometimes they like a minute, sometimes they two, three minutes. I would send them to my son, I would send them to his mom, Erica. I would send them to my stepdad, to my mom, to even musician friends. I might send it to Q -Tip, I might send it to Tyler. So when they look back and they phone history, if they still have some of those texts from back then, they're going to find these piano pieces that are on the album.

2:35They were just personal at home recordings and then when I listen back to them, I just thought there's something special about them. And I thought maybe I should share them in a way, even though it is iPhone quality, we mastered it, put it to vinyl. So it's kind of like a, almost like a novelty, a novelty project. Do you think of it as a musical diary? Well, more like a photo book, like from this time, this is a snap, you know. Yeah. Can you play me something from it? Sure. So this song is called Blueberry Mountains. This is one of the songs, there are two songs on this album that are not improv.

3:18This is one of them, but it's improv and how I performed it because I never performed it like this. And this song is one of the first songs that I ever tried to compose on piano ever. This was recorded on a very bright piano and I don't like bright pianos for some reason. So I was like, well, what can I do with these bright pianos? So I was trying to find a way to just lean into the brightness. And so I told the engineer, you know how like like trap rappers, like future, they'll put like auto tune on their vocals and it gives it some type of like digital coding, of course. And so I was like, after I play this, can we put auto tune on the piano?

4:02Cool. But it wasn't like changing my notes or anything, you just put this almost like this digital water. So you'll hear it almost like makes an acoustic piano sound kind of fake. Cool. Blueberry Mountains.

5:59When it had words, what were the words? Blueberry Mountains, Strawberry Fields was kind of like Beatles reference. Blueberry Mountains, Strawberry Fields, Banana Peels for heels. That was the chorus. Blueberry Mountains, Strawberry Fields, Banana Peels for heels. I have no idea what I was talking about at the time. Was there verses two? Yes, it was kind of like a chant in between those choruses. And it was saying, why are you up on the heel and your big homes? I'm out here risking my dome. Blueberry Mountains, Strawberry Fields, Banana Peels for heels. Why are you up on the heel and your big homes?

6:43I'm down here risking my dome. Blueberry Mountains. That's how I can remember from it. Cool. It's beautiful. Thank you, man. In a time when everything is quantized and auto tune didn't perfected, hearing something that sounds human, even if it's got a synthetic edge to it, it's interesting. It feels like a moment in time. Yes, to me, that's really when you think of New Blue Shine and kind of what this is now. I know a lot of people criticize it for being a certain thing, but what I'm looking for right now is moments, like special moments, not perfect. I'm not looking for perfection. I'm not looking for quote unquote hits or anything.

7:26I mean, I love a hit. I love perfection too, but what's interesting to me are things that are actually interesting. And so we mastered this. I was sitting with Bernie Grumman and he was listening to it. And he was like, oh, man, this is refreshing. You know, he said, I master a lot of things. And he's like a lot of times it comes in as a bar. Everyone's just wants loud, loud, loud, loud. And I understand why they want it loud because they want to compete in the club or whatever. But once you get the attention from being loud, you have to hold that attention and it becomes uninteresting. After a while.

8:02And when we were mastering these pieces, it was like, there's something, he said, I love that there's dynamic in it. Like they're jumping out. Then gets quiet. You know, it's kind of like he described it as being like classical in a way. And in some ways where things jump out and then they get really quiet. And that's what I'm looking for. I'm looking for the the specialness. I almost call them like novelty records. Like I'm what I'm doing now is making records that if I'm gonna collect, I always look at from the outside. Like if I'm not me, I would want to collect this album. I want to collect new blues songs.

8:38Because it's not like other albums. Yes. Yes. This is the one. And year from now. Yeah. I would want this like I would like, whoa, Andre did this. Yeah. You know, Andre did this. Yeah. So it's kind of for me. It's the novelty specialness of it. I think it has a lot to do with age too. Because at this age, I'm trying to make things that I feel of beauty or specialness. You know what I mean? That means a lot. You know, in my eyes, of course, I mean, pop music can mean a lot for sure. I'm not saying that. But for me, and what I've done and what I've been through, this is most interesting for me. Yeah.

9:16The last time we spoke, this was way before the new blues song album. Before we even recorded that album, it's almost like like that was a different person almost. Yeah. Yeah. Same person. But you know, I'm just in a whole another different hands face. But yeah, a lot has happened since then, man. Exploring, making music as always. You know, tell me about the hunt for flutes around the world where you've found it. Yeah. So, I mean, flutes is kind of like anything else. I mean, you collect music instruments as well. It's like once you find your end, the thing that kind of tracks you first, you kind of want to know more about that instrument or things like it.

10:01So, once I started playing, like Indigenous flutes, that got me into a whole other play on all kinds of flutes from different cultures from Bonsuri, Indian flutes to Japanese flutes, to Korean flutes, African flutes. Just anything that had holds in it, that I can manipulate. I just wanted to hear it. And so, I kind of went on a just a binge of finding and collecting and seeing which ones I responded to. And when we went on tour, I would kind of, at this point, I got, I don't know, like 75, 80 flutes. And I haven't really counted them all, but when it's time to go on tour, you can't take all of them.

10:45So, you have to kind of decide which ones are going to be your favorites at that moment. And really depends on the vibe you're in. Sometimes certain flutes are speaking to you at a certain time. And you just, you kind of end this zone for a minute. And then you may move to another zone. But yeah, man, I've kind of, yeah, just collecting by flutes. And everywhere, like every city we went to, we kind of made it a thing to kind of hunt. So, we went to like vintage shops. Great. A lot of different flea markets and like, you know, used instrument places. So, we would pick up all kinds of instruments and true form.

11:24Like, we may play them like that night, like being amateur, that, you know, just to see what we get from first responses. Like first, you know, your kid, like, playing with it, you know, before you study it or get better in a certain way. Because you'll never get that time back again, you know, purely instinctual. You don't know how it works. Yeah. But you do, you do a thing that I value a lot. And I call it a gear that people overlook. Like it's a, it's the amateur gear. Like, I think it's a people overlook it to get to, you know, experienced and well trained, which is awesome. But you'll never be able to get the first responses back.

12:11So, I, I cherish those, man. Like, yeah, even on the album, Nubel's son, the beginning track, it's an instrument on planeness, electronic, wind instrument. And I actually took it out of the box, like maybe 20 minutes before we started recording. So, what you hear is me figuring out the latency, you know, figuring out what I can get out of it. It was a stock obo sound, you know, and I was like, well, I like this sound. And started playing the melody. And that's what came. And so that's an electronic wind instrument. Uh, it's, it's like a flute, but uh, it's too blowing to it. And you blow, you blow into it.

12:50It's your, your, your amateur, like the pressure of your, your lips, the pressure of the wind. It's all calculated and then sent through, you know, whatever computer and it's very responsive. It's awesome. Like it's, it, it opened a whole new door because when we went to record at that session, I had all my, you know, wooden flutes. And in my mind, I'm like, yeah, okay, we're doing this wooden flute kind of situation. I just took this and that completely just opened a whole another door that I can, like you can hook it up to anything and play anything. Like it's almost like a mini instrument. That's what I was going to say.

13:24Like a piano is an acoustic physical instrument. Yeah. But you can play a keyboard that you play like a piano, but it can trigger sounds any kind of same, same way, same way. That's exactly what it is, but it's, but you blowing into it's wind control. Yeah. So the pressure of your wind, even like, um, like on a, on a true, like woodwind instrument, like your, your amateur, like if you bite down on the read, it'll sometimes bend the note and, you know, you can go into the app and fix how much pressure you want. Like how responsive it is, how much kind of fight when fight back you want. Like so that opened up a whole new door on the album and it's just even since then, like touring it opened up a whole new sound palette that I can just play anything.

14:12So is the thing that makes a flute a flute is that it's a tube with holes in it? Yeah. Like a saxophone is a tube with holes, but it has more to it. It's got more mechanics. Yeah. And a clarinet has more mechanics. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I would say, I mean, you probably write the basis of a flute is some cylinder with holes in it, you know, that they're evenly spaced out to get, and sometimes I'm not even evenly spaced out like, like back in the day when they first started making flutes, I mean, they didn't have measuring equipment in that way. So they would just kind of go on with what they heard over time, you know, the distance between the holes and even the width of the hole makes, you know, sharp, flat kind of, and how different are they from each other?

15:01Oh, yeah. They're like people. Like even if you have the same flute maker, same key, same length of wood is going to sound different, especially when you're dealing with like, you know, handmade instruments in wood. Like, I mean, there's just so much like the wood is a real responsive thing. And even the same flute made of two different woods, same key will sound different. So, I mean, I'm sure like guitar players can tell you the same thing. Like you can, you can get five different fenders, strats, and they all going to sound different, even if it's made in the same factory. It's just kind of, it's inherent, but you see the magic of it though.

15:43The difference in the way it sounds will inspire you to play it differently. Yes. Yep. My very first flute that I got from Guillermo is in the key of E. And over time, I play it, and I didn't know that you're supposed to clean it out after you play every time. So, for years, I've just never cleaned it. So, it would hold, I mean, I'm geared to graphic, but all the moisture from my mouth, it would almost create a coating in the cylinder of the flute. And to me, it gave it a certain character. Yeah. Because once I went back to get it cleaned out, it was a completely different flute. And it was a sad day for me too, because it had gained like a soul.

16:32Yeah. It really sounded like a mature woman that had lived. And then after I got it cleaned out, it just sounded like a new young person. And I almost, I was unfamiliar with this thing. And it was like, oh, so since then, have you not cleaned it? No, I don't. I don't. Or I just expect that it's going to be this way, and I clean it. But I like it to have something built in. Even if it's tuned out a little bit, I like it. I don't know. Or just sometimes it's an actual coating, because you're coating the cylinder with, you know, human stuff. And it's your stuff too. It's personal. It certainly personalizes it.

17:17Yeah. Tell me the story of getting the first flute. How'd that happen? We looking for a flute? Actually, let me even go back because we were just sitting here talking about California. When I moved out here, I knew nothing about Venice. I knew nothing about the West Side. And so there's real estate agent. We had been looking like for almost like a week, for a place. And I was only supposed to be for like six months, kind of like a just regrouping. And I was looking for a rental spot and, you know, LA proper, like inside the city. And we looked at a few places and not even really spoke to me in a way.

17:54And on the way, I'm, you know, the agent said, well, I got this one little spot. This little bitty house in Venice. And so I was like, all right, I tell my friends, you know, I might be checking out Venice. And they were like, no, no, like don't move the Venice. Because if you move to the West Side, we'll never see you. And it's kind of true, because once you're over here, you don't need to go back on the other side. Everything goes here. It's so much nicer on the West Side. Yeah, it's actually cooler. It's better on the West Side. Like you're the beach air makes it cool. Like in the summertime, it's hot, like it can be a hundred degrees inside the city.

18:29It'll be like 85 here. And so I liked it. And that way. And when I got to Venice, man, it's kind of like I do believe like sometimes we were put in places to meet who we need to meet and the people we need to meet at a certain time. And I happen to just be going, I met this girl at this breathwork class. And tell me about the breathwork class. What type was it? Yeah, it was kind of you doing this holotropic breathing kind of where for an hour, you're doing this intense kind of rhythmic breathing where you kind of get a trance in a way. And this young lady invited me to the class. And so I went to the class.

19:06And then after the class, because you're laying on a mat while you're doing your laying on your back on a mat while you're doing it. And after the class, while the class is sitting there, some people started setting up instruments. And so the teachers like, hey, if you want to stay, you know, we have, you know, these performers. So former Dave and Cassia were playing. They were just setting up. And I didn't know who they were. I didn't know Cassia from a can of paint. And they were setting up guitars and flute, you know, native flute. And Cassia starts playing this wooden flute. And I'm laying on my back and I man, what is this?

19:40You know, man, I've never heard the sound in my life like, whoa, what is the sound? And I had to go up to her after the class. And I was like, what's that? You know, what are you playing? And she said, yeah, this indigenous flute, she said, it's God Guillermo Martinez. He made it for me. And I said, can you, you know, pass me Guillermo's info? And she gave me Guillermo's number. And I reached out to him, told him I wanted to flute. I went on his site, just picked the key. I didn't know, you know, just picked the key and put in the order. And yeah, he made my first flute. And from the first day I got it, I went to pick the flute up and I had to drive out to Madesca Canyon.

20:23Way, I was about an hour outside of LA. And so this is where his workshop is, where he makes the flutes. And I go to pick it up and I'm thinking, yeah, I'm just going, you know, pay for this flute and be on my way, you know. And so I grabbed the flute and, you know, we do all what we need to do. And he says, okay, so let me just take you outside real quick. And he takes me out in front of the barn. And then he lights up a smudge stick. And he turns me in one direction. He smudges me. He turns me in another direction. He smudges me. He smudges the flute. And I'm like, whoa, okay, you know, this is a thing.

20:59And then he told me the history of flute playing. Native American flute playing. Yeah, he took me through there. And after then I took it home. And from the first day I got it, I just never stopped playing it. I would walk and play like I love to walk. So I would walk like five, six miles in the back home playing. And it just became a everyday thing. And I would find little patterns I loved. I would find, you know, made up melodies. I didn't take a let's, I don't know if it's even a lesson. I mean, I'm sure someone can teach you now. You can probably find a little TikTok or something. But like I didn't take any lessons.

21:33I just picked it up. And the learning curve on these flutes are not that hard at all. It's basically, it's kind of like a recorder in a way. Because you've blown through a hole and you manipulate the notes by however many fingers you have up or down. And you can bend the notes. You learn these kind of things after playing with it for a while. You can have a note. You can slide it into a note. And all these things just became, yeah, just interesting to me because I was always into like jazz music, classical music. And some of the best parts of some of my best composers were when they started playing the piccolo or flute parts, you know, or obo parts.

22:14So I was always into when the instruments or what when instruments. Even before I got into the flute, I was playing bass clarinet. And then I got an obo later on, which is the hardest instrument to play in the world. So yeah, once I started it, I just ain't never put it down. How was developing the wind to play? Do you learn how to breath? Yes, you do. You do run out of breath. But I think because I walk a lot, I would play while I'm walking. So it almost kind of trained me to be out of breath in a way. So my wind was up. And I think because I'm a rapper, my wind was up to start with. You know, do you still think of yourself as a rapper?

22:52I don't really. That's what's crazy. Because you just said that. I know. I know. I know. But it's kind of like a rapper. Yeah, I know. I know. It was weird, man. Like I wish I was more of a rapper right now. It's another life. Yeah, it is. You know, it's funny. Like when you ask me that because like always, I have thoughts all the time. And sometimes rap start as just thoughts. And so I always write them down. And I always rhyme things. I still rhyme, you know, but it's not like a, it's not like an everyday practice. I don't know. I just, I don't have a connection with it like I used to. Yeah.

23:27You know, but I would like to. And I try, I keep, I keep trying because there's a challenge that I'm trying to do with myself. Like, I want to see, well, what can I make that sounds authentic for me right now, you know? And I'm influenced by everything. So I listen to, you know, new kids, old kids. Like, so I always try to figure out what can I do now, you know, at this age, I'll be 50 in May. And this even weird for me to even say like 50, like I do not feel 50 at all. You know, but when I look in the mirror and I sell this silver hair, I'm like, yeah, nigga, you 50. If I never knew my age, I probably would think I'm like 38 in the heart and in spirit, like 38, 40, maybe we're changing that far from 50, but it's different though.

24:15It is, it is, it is totally different. Psychologically different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Take you a little minute to, to get up. Like, yeah, like I have to adjust my back, you know, when I get up, which, uh, aging always say is like hilarious to me, aging is hilarious and cruel at the exact same time. Yeah. It's hilarious because all the things that you used to be able to do is harder to do those things because regular things. Yes, the regular things. Yeah. And it's cruel because you know that mortality is happening. Yeah. Like you, you know, what's happening. You know, it's not like a mystery of what's happening.

24:54I wouldn't want to go back to being a younger age, though, which is weird. Another kind of weird thing. Like someone can say, yeah, you can go back to being 25. I would not. Well, nope.

25:07So much of today's life happens on the web. Tware space is your home base for building your dream presence in an online world. Designing a website is easy using one of square spaces best in class templates. With the built in style kit, you can change fonts, imagery, margins and menus. So your design will be perfectly tailored to your needs. Discover unbreakable creativity with fluid engine, a highly intuitive drag and drop editor. No coding or technical experiences required. Understand your site's performance with in -depth website analytics tools. Tware space has everything you need to succeed online.

25:56Create a blog. Monetize a newsletter. Make a marketing portfolio. Launch an online store. The square space app helps you run your business from anywhere. Track inventory and connect with customers while you're on the go. Whether you're just starting out or already managing a successful brand, square space makes it easy to create and customize a beautiful website. Visit squarespace .com slash tetra and get started today.

26:37I don't think I ever asked you about your parents. Tell me about your parents. Yeah, they passed away. Young. Both with heart trouble, my mom had a heart attack and a sleep. My father had a valve in his heart that just stopped working. So both of them, they kind of checked out. Young. How was your relationship with them? Me and my mom, we were like tight. I grew up with my mom. My mom and dad would never marry. So I would see my dad a lot, but you know, it's just a different thing when you're not in the house. So me and my dad were really cool. He was like one of the coolest kind as people that I know.

Read the full transcript

27:16But we weren't that close, you know. Yeah, we just wanted to feel a connection, though. Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure. And I think around like 14, my mom sent me to live with my dad. And so of course, that was a lot better. So I got to be around more. But then, I mean, we started making music at 17. So that's like three, four years, and I'm out. So, you know, we traveling around the world, like at that point. So I only had a little time with my dad. What was your mom's musical taste like? And what was your dad's musical taste like? Mom was a like top 40 kind of girl. So, you know, she was singing like Suprins, Diner Raw songs, Regina Bell, Anita Baker, like C was a R &B kind of kid, you know.

28:05Good taste. Listen to the radio or would she play records or the set? I listened to the radio. She had some records around. Oh, but mostly radio. And our time we spent was in the car a lot. So we listened to her in the car. My dad was on the funk side. So my dad played a lot of hard co -funk, you know, Gap band, Paul Manfongadellic, and even like further back, like he was a Temptations Four Topps. Type of first. Do they both love music? Yes, but my mom was more on the gospel side too, because my mom was like, we went to church a lot. And so, every week, every every week, like three times a week, like Bible study.

28:46Would you ever see in church? Yeah, I was in the choir. Vacation Bible school, Bible study, all that kind of stuff. So my mom kept me in the church. So a lot of the music we listened to was like very old -style gospel music. And I really love like Reverend CJ Johnson kind of stuff, where it was just people clapping and feet stomping. And moaning and singing kind of gospel. But I did like some contemporary gospel of that time, like a clock sisters were big for me. They're amazing. Yeah, man. Let's see, my grandfather was a preacher too. And so he had a little church and most Southern people that went to little churches, they had no.

29:28It's a certain kind of church when they pull out an old chair and sit it in the middle of the pew and people get down and testify out. They pray on that old chair. And it's a certain kind of church. And my grandfather had one of those churches. He was one of the preaches that like grab his ear and he was like, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah. No, he was one of the old people. Yeah. And I always thought it was kind of mesmerizing to watch him do it. So I'm from that, you know, I like the foot stomping, hold the ghost kind of church. Can you play me an example of CJ Johnson? Yeah. I don't know this. Yeah, man.

30:09I love this kind of music. Yeah. Two. So I recorded this from my mom's cassette actually. So I'm not actually sure if this is CJ Johnson, but this is the type. Okay. Because I don't have the artist name. It may be you were ever CJ Johnson, but you'll get the feel. And this song is called You Better Run to the City.

30:41Hey, baby .den You better run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run Yugyeom is a universal alternative about how research puts eco web value in 아파 music programming machines called Beatwood, and we're going to figure out how to do He came to Jesus, he came by night.

32:16He said, tap on tap, be on. And the heaven is high, then high. From the neck of demons. And I had no plans that I'd know on. I got the heaven and my people. The bend, on the hook, he must have understood. I could tell him, he'd been born when he was so old. I thought, are you better? I'm on, on, on, on. Are you better? I'm better, I'm better, I'm better, I'm better. Oh, I'm better, I'm to see your red. Yeah. You better, I'm better. Well, got a hundred bucks. And then I hung on. Three hundred. I'm so angry. He's taken the place. I'm not dying. He's waiting for me. I'm going to go back to the beach.

33:06Waiting till it all to stop with the song. Hang up, stop for some. I'm having to walk, I'm having to talk. She's waiting for that before the day begins. He says, I'll find her. You're back. Do it, you're just not. Do it, I'm better. Are you better? I'm better, I'm better. Are you better? I'm better, I'm better, I'm better. Yeah. You better. Yeah. Yeah. You better. You better. Where you be that the Samsung's under. From you where you get the longest man that ever lived on. If I want to, you're Samsung. Walking along, home with Samsung, stranger world. Never found out for you. Like you came and said, on the knees.

33:58And the please telling me where your strength on my knee. He told a mistake, color in the half. You let me change my head. Just as a cleanest, my hand on my finger will become a nut. Now just mind about how you better. I'm better, I'm better. Are you better? I'm better, I'm better. Yeah. You better. Yeah. He said, come on. Let me hear you.

34:33They called this the home that goes there. Come on. Well, I don't mind the person and that they all who will. I don't mind the person and the rope of the law. I don't mind the member of the human race.

35:05And his name? My name is Mary of my hometown. I'm Billy Ben کtur I am a Oh man, like that clapping. Crazy. That'd be crazy. Man, oh my God. There's no artifice. There's no performance. Well, you can tell he's like, he almost freestyles. Yeah. You can tell he's kind of making, he almost like spewing what he knows of the Bible, like out as like rap verses almost. And you can tell like there's no even like, he can count his bars, like sometimes he can't even count his bars. And then he's like, you can tell he's just, he's free, you know, it's awesome man. I love it. To meet us. That clapping, no?

36:00That's pure. Very. That's pure. Yeah. Yeah. So two things come to mind when I hear that. And what you've been saying is that one, from a young age, you got to experience a music that isn't showbiz. That's not showbiz what we were hearing. That was a deep connection to something. Yeah. Yeah. I think when my mom like kept me in the church in that way around, so I got that spirit look inside or what, or what it looks like or how to affect people. Yeah. I got to see what they look like, but at the same time, my mom was the first person that took me to a fresh, fresh concert. Yeah. So I saw LL, I saw public enemy, I saw Houdini all on the same ticket.

36:45That was my first like rap concert. And I was like blown away, like I was seen radio and SNS1Ws do this. You know, it was kind of military kind of thing. Performance, yeah. Koudini, they were like fun, they had these leather shorts, leather hats, like, man, they are killing it. Yeah. So I saw both sides of it. Then you, I mean, we were in the time of Michael Jackson and Prince. And a new addition and all that kind of stuff, and guy and Island Brothers and all that kind of stuff. So I got both sides and MTV was huge. Yeah. So I saw the entertainment, in a pure entertainment part too. Also, the fact that you, first time you hear the flute is after doing whole -etropic breathing.

37:27And whole -etropic breathing is sort of a psychedelic experience. It will leave you in an altered state. Yes. So you're in this altered state and you hear this sound. If you had not done the breathing, maybe the flute wouldn't have spoke to you in the same way. Maybe. Because you kind of stayed out of the rest of it or just kind of chill out for a minute. I could have got up and left and just missed a whole thing. But it feels related. Oh, I know it's related. I mean, even me, that Wungle House in Venice, like all of it is related. And it's funny because I had a trip plan, go to Hawaii actually, to sit and do ayoasca.

38:06And I got my flute done. My flute came right in time before that trip. So I took my flute on the trip as well. And I think all of that plays into me getting to that place. Was that the first time you took ayoasca? Yeah, very first time. And tell me about that experience. That's where I can describe it as a... just a connecting place where... I mean, you've always heard that, yeah, we're all connected and I'm connected to this, I'm connected to you, I'm connected. But that was first time like you fill it. And you know that you're part of just a big kind of energy orchestra more than anything. And you know, we all have our own body instruments that look different.

38:49But we're kind of all of a one, one thing. And you could see it from... Not visually, but I could feel it. I didn't get much, many visuals from it. Would you say you could feel it in a way that you didn't question it? Like it was clear? Yeah, yeah, totally, totally. And it just totally makes sense when you think about it. And extreme love and acceptance of people that you may have thought were like horrible. And it's kind of like... It quickly made you realize that... They were really trying to do the best that they made bad choices. But they were doing the best... What they could at that time.

39:30So you don't hold it too strong and you're kind of like, hmm, you know, and that was the first time that I've ever felt it in that way. Even there was someone in the album called That Night in Hawaii, you know, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. But that was actually a real occurrence. There was a point where I started doing this thing called Tony. And I didn't understand. I didn't know what the fuck was going on. But it's kind of like... Your body is an instrument at that point. And you're basically... It sounds... I know it's going to sound cookie. But your body is an instrument and you're kind of getting played.

40:08And so I know I was not making these notes because I didn't even... I was not in my mind, frankly, even think of notes. I was kind of doing this...

40:19And then it would like kind of alternate... It would go...

40:27Like it was playing me like a... Some type of instrument. And... You were not trying to change notes. No, and I had more breath because I'm... And my mind as it's happening, I'm listening. And it's funny, like, their human part of me is like, damn, I wish I had my phone. Yeah. You know, that's the first thing I thought I wanted to record. Of course. But I'm listening to myself make these noises. And at a certain point, I'm like, whoa, I'm still going. Like, I don't have that much breath. Yeah. And then I'll go... And do it again. And it's not me. Yeah. You know, it's weird. And I asked the shaman about it.

41:06It's like, yeah, this is a thing called toning. It's for something inside you or something. Someone close to you. It's basically like vibrating to move a thing. So it's like almost like a... Like a... Almost like a shock wave kind of therapy in a way. But you're the shock wave. You're the energy center that's making it go. And it was a trip, man. And I just... It felt like a Panther. And that's the song on the album. I was trying to... Trying to find a way to mimic it, you know. So you start telling the story about the house in Venice. Did you end up moving to the house in Venice? Yes. End up moving to the house in Venice.

41:44It was almost supposed to be there for like six months. And then I kept renewing it. Another six months. Another six months. Just because life was good there, you felt... You felt the comfort. Yeah. It felt why I needed to be. It was a very small house. Yeah. Actually in the film I recently released a film called Moving Day. And I actually documented that time. But it just felt nice to be in this small house. I like smaller places even in Atlanta. I had like a huge like five room bedroom house. And I was staying in this one little room. You know, it was kind of like almost like... And it had posters all over the wall.

42:20It was kind of like... I just like smaller, smaller places. And it felt great for me to be there. And I ended up meeting Carlos Nino at AirOne. And when I met Carlos, I was... It's funny. I was actually talking to Mike D. We were in line checking out, talking to Mike D. And Carlos comes up and he invites us to this event that he's doing. That night. And he said, uh... Carlos is like, yeah, man, people were telling me that you were around town playing your flute. And that we should meet. You know, and I knew one day I would meet you. I didn't know where would be your win. And I just felt this was the time.

42:58I got this event happening tonight. You should come by and you should bring your flute. So I'm... I'm game. Because he said it's an Alice Coltrane event. And so I was like, oh, nice. All right. And crazy thing I was listening to Alice that whole week before I met him. And so... It's like... Isn't it amazing how like... Yeah, the brick -round, man. It all just comes together. It orchestrated how it's supposed to be. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, even... I mean, it's happening like that all my life. Me too. It's amazing. With big boy, with Donsha. Everything is always been... It just happens. That way, as long as you...

43:30In a place where you're... Accepting those things too. Yeah. Your realtor could have said, well, it's this place in Venice. You're like, no, I'm not looking for Vance. And you were open. Yep. It wasn't what you were looking for. No, but it was what it was. It was exactly what you needed. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. So, yeah, it was... After that, I went to the event. And... Syria bought a Fassena keyboard player. He was playing that night with Carlos. And Syria's mom was on stage. And Syria's mom invited me to come up and play. Now, Syria, you know, he was raised on the Oshron with Alice. You know, back in the day.

44:07So, his mom, you know, knew Alice. They were in that world. So, she's the hardest. And so, she had the instinct to invite me up to play. And at that point, I'd never played with anybody. I've always kind of just been walking around playing. How many years have you been playing at this point? Maybe two, three years. So... And... Minds you mind. My flute is tuned to 432. So, I knew... Like, I'm not a big music nerd buff, but I knew that 432 was on to 440. And most people are playing it at 440. Yeah. And so, when they invited me up, I was... I was like, no, I don't think I'll come. And then, I felt like it would have been a spectacord.

44:50It was like, oh, Andre 3000 is playing. I know people want to put their phones up and record me and it's placed. So, I felt that that wouldn't be placed for me to jump on stage and play. The whole night, though, as they're playing, I'm in the back -back. And I'm playing to myself. Yeah. Wow, they're playing. Yeah. And then, after the whole event was... Oh, I stayed to the very end. And then, Carlos comes after the event. He was like, yeah, man, if you ever want to get together and jam, man, come to my house. And so, we went to Carlos' house. And I had first sessions and it's Garage Studio. And we actually recorded that session.

45:27And we're going to put it out, which is so interesting to hear. The playing from that to New Blue Sun, which is so crazy. But, yeah, it's kind of like those breadcrumbs just happened. And we just kept rocking. And I told Carlos, I was like, hey, man, I want to find a way to present this win -playing in a broad way. Because at that point, people had started filming me at Starbucks or in the airport. He's carrying this flute around. So, it was kind of like a... Where's Waldo with his flute kind of thing. And they would always kind of catch me mid -phrase or something. And it was like, oh, man, I wish they would've called it when it was jam.

46:08And so, I was like, I'd like to present this in a broad way to the public. So, I'd like to record some type of album. And so, Carlos is like, yeah, I mean, I know people that can make it happen. And so, we would try out different things to see what works, different players. And then we ended up landing on the four or five people that were the core band on the album. Tell me some of the things you tried along the way before you got to where you wanted it to be. What was some of the experiments leading up to it? Well, it's always funny, like, the idea you have in your mind of who you think you're going to be or the music you're going to be.

46:48Sometimes there's a little off from what it's going to be. Which is kind of cool though, because you sometimes get to a greater thing. And my mind, I wanted to do this fully rhythmic kind of like Steve Reichish kind of trans. And it's still possible. Yeah. But at that time, I was like, this rhythmic kind of really constructed thing that you can blend and mix with other, like, you can blend it with beats if you wanted to. What started to happen was, I recorded a few of those and I liked it, but it just wasn't what I thought it would be. And we just started doing a free form like, like Carlos Nino, he's been recording in this way for a long time.

47:32I'm volumes involved in music. So I think me meeting him was a good kind of like the best place that I could be to open to play. You know, because really is the community is we get together, we have an intention, but not a strong kind of like, we're going to do this, we're going to do this, it's an intention just to make music. Not knowing what is going to like, not calling out keys, not call nothing. And we go purely free form and that's how the album was created. And it gave me a chance to just play. I'm not a great player, you know, but it gave me a chance to express something and find key moments.

48:18And we took it out and played like we toured all of last year, fully free form. When we hit the stage, we never knew what it would be, you know, which is an awesome, exciting, scary, powerful place to be on stage when there's people. Yeah, that comes to see how different was the music from night to night. Very different. Depending on the mood, sometimes depending on the venue, depending on how we feel as a group, as a unit before we go on sometimes. Like there was one time where I said, hey, why don't we just start silent completely and just see how long we can be silent. And we held it for a long time.

49:00And we just felt it and go and it was something powerful and we would end that way sometimes too. And but sometimes we were like, let's go 10. So soon as we go, want to, everything that you could throw. So it was like, yeah, just depending on the venue, sometimes like if you're in a big cavernous space, you know, you want to use the echo. So you play less, you kind of so you can hear bounce back. But if you're in a tight space, you know, you kind of play more. And we were playing festivals at this point. So, you know, we may go on like full sex or air or something like so. So when you're in a festival situation, you play louder because it's nothing bouncing back to you.

49:40Yeah. Which is a odd feeling, but um, and the audience takes the necessary leave there to see you. So it's a different, oh, yeah, for a festival, it's a different feeling in the crowd. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was some real powerful moments, man. We did a Tyler's Flognaugh. And these were like, you know, these are young kids, man. And they came and, you know, they're saying the best of pop music right now. And then we come out doing this free form music. Like they was fucking with it. That's amazing. Yeah, it was, they were like, Marsh Pitten. Wow. Yeah, it was a trip, man. Wow. Yeah, they were like, because they only gave us 30 minutes.

50:19Yeah. And so our 30 minutes was up and they were like, no, we want more like the crowd was like, let's go. So yeah, you had great crowds there. I mean, of course, not all of them are great. So we got some bad, you know, bad write -ups, you know, one writer was like, he didn't even do hair. But we all laughed at that. Yeah, we weren't doing music for the critics. You would not at all. I honestly weren't really even doing it for the audience. They got to see it. Yeah, they were kind of witnessing. And I would say it is like, you know, it's not really a show, but we thank you all for coming. Yeah.

50:52Like we're just, we're jamming. We're jamming. And more than just, it's not really a jam either, because they are jam bands. It was more of a conjuring kind of thing. It's not like you just get a groove and you just go for a long time. When did you decide I'm going to make an album? I can't remember the date, but it was after I played in the garage. And me listening to a lot of records. So I would sing Carlos kind of like things I meant to. So I would send him like me playing to Indian Rockers. Yeah. Because Indian Rockers are a lot on it. So I can just play on top of them. And they usually stay in the same key, which is always good to play with these flutes that are in a key.

51:37You know, they're not changing. So it was always good to play. And I would send stuff like that or I would send like a playlist of stuff that I'm into. And he would send cool stuff back. So you just got a mind frame of the type of music that I like. But then we threw it all out the window and recorded free. But I think instincts and taste came into play. I'm sure those the listening, even if it was different, informed the direction things were. For sure. I hear all the people I love and what I'm playing. Even if it sounds nothing like it. Yes, I hear. And I know like, oh, I know I'm doing patterns right now.

52:11I know, you know, oh, that sounds cold training. You know, so it's kind of like, yeah, you, you fill it. Yeah.

52:31L -M -N -T. Element, electrolytes. Have you ever felt dehydrated after an intense workout or a long day in the sun? You want to maximize your endurance and feel your best? Add element electrolytes to your daily routine. Perform better and sleep deeper. Improve your cognitive function. Experience an increase in steady energy with fewer headaches and fewer muscle cramps. Element electrolytes. Drink it in the sauna.

53:10Refreshing flavors include grapefruit, citrus, watermelon, and chocolate salt. Formulated with the perfect balance of sodium, potassium, and magnesium to keep you hydrated and energized throughout the day. These minerals help conduct the electricity that powers your nervous system so you can perform it your very best. Element electrolytes are sugar -free, keto -friendly, and great tasting. Minerals are the stuff of life. So visit drinklmant .com slash tetra and stay salty with Element electrolyte. L -M -N -T.

53:59How was the feeling when the album was being released versus your experience of putting out, let's call it popular music in the past, making this more esoteric music now? What was your feeling when you were putting it out? I was very excited. But one thing, I'm kind of oblivious to the outside world a lot because one thing I failed to realize after I dropped it, you know, the big thing was, oh man, we wait 17 years and this is what you give us? You know, I like that. Because for me, I never said, hey, people wait for this wrap out. I never said that. For me, I was just putting out music and we did intentionally, we went on a press run to let people know what this was before it came out.

54:51So if they didn't get the memo, I'm sorry, they didn't get the memo. Some people were like, man, I can't wrap it all on it. But I said that there was no wrapping, so I don't know what else we could do. It's also not your problem, honestly. No, no, you're getting to make the thing you want to make. No, the job is done after we've recorded. Exactly. I feel that way. Like, to me, at this point, we just share it. Yeah, yeah. And if you like it or not, I'm cool. I'm totally fine with, you know, with critique. I'm fine with people loving it, not liking it. Because I don't like everybody. Even people that I love, I don't like all of the stuff they do.

55:26Of course. I'm totally fine with that, man. I just felt like it was a beautiful thing. And I wanted to share it. And I think for the times too, it was really important to share it. And when you're in the street and people tell you for real how they feel about it, that's when you know, you know, and that's what I loved about it. Like, people were coming up, you know, telling us what they were doing with it or, yeah, I had this friend that was depressed, that wasn't talking to us. And now they're coming, you know, or my friend is on this deathbed. I only had two weeks to live and he's listening to this.

55:58Like, it was like, it was powerful in a whole another way that I didn't expect. I only knew, oh man, I think this is beautiful and we want to share it. That's called it matters. Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. And now, you're free to create anything you want. Because now going forward, there won't be any expectation. I think there will always be some expectation. I feel like you're free. I really do. I know I'm free. But I feel like I'm free. But to everybody else. It's not the wall down though. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's a show. It's like, it's a different, you know, like you said, you were a different person than you were when we sat here last.

56:36I told you to feel like a bit of a... And when we sat here last, you were playing flute, but you were not on. I'm making an album. It was not like that. No. It was like, you were finding a way to satisfy yourself making music again. Now, I think it should always start that way. Like I think it should always start from a personal interest and just follow that interest. Like you never know where it's going to go. Like when I started rapping, I didn't know I was start producing. I didn't know how I started making beats. I didn't know how I started singing. I didn't know how I started picking up interest.

57:08I didn't know. I just, I'm just following what I'm into. I don't know. And I think that's, you know, that's my only compass. That's all I got really. Yeah. You know, my own interest. Do you still play flute wherever you go? That's funny. No. I don't. And it's weird because people expect me to do it now. It's like almost like a public performance. And so I almost have to like hide away or find, you know, little caves or a little alleyways to play. You know, because before I just kind of be playing the neighbor like, oh, there's a nigga playing the flute, you know. But now it's kind of like, it's a thing now.

57:46You know, people expect it. Yeah. And I don't like it as much for people to be expecting me. Yeah. Or, you know, trying to film me do it or, you know, could now in a way, your professional flute player. It's crazy. It's sound. Yeah, I guess you can't say, yeah, I guess if you can pay for doing this, professional. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm a sonic explorer, man. That's what I am. And I always perform the instrumental music on stage different than other kinds of music. Different. Completely. Even from how we record in the studio to being on stage, because there's another member in the band and that's the audience.

58:25Yeah. You know, so we get hoops and hollas. We get people, we got people singing like opera while we're doing it. You know, we got people almost getting into fights while we're doing. We got people in tears. We got people cry. So it's a whole other member going on anus. And I think when you have lights and you have a stage and you have people in front of you, they expect you to do a thing. And so I do think it charges you up differently than us just around. Okay. You know, jamming. So that was a totally different experience. Did you get nervous before a show? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Always, always. But I've always kind of like, even back in the day when we had like songs that people knew.

59:08You still wear your nerves, which is good. You know, nerves are good. How is the reaction in different parts of the world, different countries? Pretty much across the board. Yeah, acceptance across the board. It's so beautiful. It's so beautiful from Japan to Portugal to Australia to London. Yeah, everywhere they accepted it in the street. And what's crazy is what's start to happen because of the music we got put on a lot of jazz festival gigs. And so we're playing with the best of the best, you know, like the best of the best players. And what I start to notice is players would come backstage after and like give their honest kind of.

59:51It was inspiring because if it almost like we charged them up to do something like. One one player, I wouldn't say his name, and it was like, man, I wish I would have been doing this kind of thing six months ago. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, because I think we'll give them permission to be free. Yeah, that's what I was about to say. I think what people love most about it was the freeness. Yeah. The freedom in it's almost like, yeah, like a rally for it. A rally for freedom. And I think people responded mostly in that way. Last time we spoke, you said you were judgmental of yourself. Oh, yeah.

1:00:26Do you still feel the same or are you better? Same. It's still the same. It's still the same. But I think I understand more when I'm doing it. And I just try to move past the moon, breathe, take a deep breath, you know, relax my shoulders and move past the moon. Man, I mean, I think I don't think it's bad to be judgmental in certain ways because we are. I think judging things is part of our survival. Like, even when you walk, you judge how far you're going to step. And you have to assess what's going on. We have brains to assess. So I think it's none wrong with it until it gets to a negative place, you know, I think you just got to pay attention because sometimes you need it.

1:01:12Sometimes you like, if there's a threat around you, like, you know, you know, I've been someone on some street corners and you like, okay, something don't feel right. That's because you know, you know, and that's all a part of it. You are analyzing, assessing every moment of what's happening. And when you're doing it to yourself, sometimes maybe it is something you should look at, but sometimes it's bullshit, you know. When you're playing in an improvisational way, what would you do? How much of it is playing versus listening? It's kind of, I wouldn't say 50, 50, maybe 70 listening. Yeah. Because it kind of got to, not again, you're assessing what's happening, you know, to feel where you're going to sit.

1:02:00You know, how do you enhance this moment or how do you sit back? How do you not say anything? Yeah. So you have to listen. And because I'm not a trained musician, if you see the performance that I have this blanket down on the floor, and I have maybe 30 foods. And because I don't know keys, I don't know, like I'm not trained in that way. Sometimes you'll see me down on the floor auditioning them in a way. Just see what's going to sound good. Yeah. So if serious planet thing or the answer is planet thing that has note, I kind of play this, oh, no, that don't sound good. Take this from me. Yeah, it's just doing one.

1:02:41And you go in, you know, so it's kind of like you're listening the whole time. And it's harder for me because I didn't go to music school to know, oh, they're in the key of blah, blah, blah. You know, so it's all, it's all feel. It's all feel ear and physicality to me, like a lot of times I play, like I sometimes like I watch some of my favorite guitar players, like their physical. That makes a certain sound. And so I try to play in that way, the way you move your fingers rhythmically. I'm almost trying to langle something or wheel something to happen. You know, so a lot of times is I look at it like it's not jazz what I'm doing is it's almost like impressions.

1:03:27Like if you were looking at art and you looking at figurative art and it's what you see an actual thing, a body or whatever. It's almost like I'm doing an abstract version of it, like just an impression of something. You know, so the notes will be right or wrong sometimes, but you don't feel it. And it's going to create something that creates feeling. So I look at it in that way. It's out pure in that way, like it in some ways, the lack of understanding gets you to a pure place of feeling. Because there's no math involved. Oh, yeah. Do you know what I'm saying? Yes. It really is you will with this thing that's happening and it's real.

1:04:14And it's in this moment. Yep. That moment will likely not happen again. It won't. There's no, even if we try, there's no way, when we first started touring, because we created the album free form. We first started touring, we would try to play the numbers in a way from the album. Because now I know some of the melodies I can kind of go back to them. That was okay for a while. But if it felt restrictive in a way, because to me, I mean, we rocked it, but it felt restrictive because it was almost like I was trying to do a thing, which is different from just doing a thing. And the wheels are off when you're just doing the thing.

1:04:57So we moved quickly into every show just being free form. Just like we made the album. It was just more of the, and sometimes we may go back to one number. But it would be a crazy rendition of that song. It wouldn't even like, you know, even like Jazz Band -Aid will do a version of their song. It's pretty much the same, but of course there's stretching it out in a certain way. Yeah, this would be an impression of an impression of an impression. Yeah, how many shows did you do about running joke? We did like 120. Yeah. Could you say over the course of those shows, you got better at doing it? I got better at not knowing what I'm doing.

1:05:41I got more confidence and having confidence that I don't know what I'm doing. Yeah. I think the results. Yes. Yes. Yes. There were times when we were like, get off stage and man, we would just hug off and do like, man, I don't know what just happened, but that shit was awesome. Yeah. You can't get it back. That's what I'm saying. So here's the thing, like, I've made music all my life since I was like 17. And I've made songs, I've written choruses, I've made beats. Like, that people know when I go out to do it. And that's a great reward when the whole crowd is singing your verse or the whole crowd is singing the chorus.

1:06:18There's a whole another reward when you don't know what's about to happen. And sun shines in. And it's like, so we're all witnessing it at the same time. Yeah. That's a whole another type of reward. Well, you're participating together in a miracle. Yes. It's the difference. Yes. Yeah, we're all, it's almost like five people on one tight rope. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just like happening. Yeah. Yeah. And it's almost like you're falling off, but you don't fall off. Yeah. And it's like, even if you fall off, like somebody may throw a arm out and you dang it for a while, then they pull you back up. And just the pull up is beautiful to sing.

1:06:56Yeah. Whoa. You know, so yeah, it's all, yeah, I can't explain it. I'm so happy that I was put in the position to be able to do it in this way. Yeah. Do you imagine doing another album in this direction? Oh, man, we have so much music. Yeah. So stay tuned. Yeah. Like, so here's the thing, we record everything. Oh, good. Even like our sound checks. Yeah. Oh, man, sometimes our sound checks were crazy. And they, and just the sound check. Yeah. And so we record sound checks, we record every performance. Right. And then even before we hit the road, we almost recorded a whole two albums. Before we even put out new blues on.

1:07:38So, yeah, there's a lot of music coming. I think my eyes right now are set on scoring film with it. Because it is something, filmic about it. There's something orchestral even, even though we may not be playing orchestral instruments, we could totally score a movie live or someone writing a movie to our pieces. Yeah. Yeah. It'll happen. When you hear the pieces, does imagery come up for you? Do you see things when you're listening? It depends on where I am at the moment, not necessarily where this made me think of a thing. But if I'm already in a zone, I can bring up thoughts. Tell me about the image on the cover of the album.

1:08:25Okay. So when we were talking about Venice, we were talking about that little house. That was a steal from the film called Moving Day. And I was just in my backyard with my flute, Dexter Navy, director. I met him at a juice bar. And Dexter was like, hey, man, I want to just come film you do something. And we happened to be moving this one day, the last day in this little house. So I was like, Dexter, come through with your cameras or whatever, we just were shooting some. Dexter came through and we walked around Venice a little bit, walked around the house, and went in the backyard. And he was filming me.

1:09:04And I was just a steal from me being in the backyard playing flute. So that's the album cover image. Cool. But it's great. Like honestly, flute playing. Yeah. Like when you talk about Michael Jordan's other thing, like my hero. It's an Indian flute player. Chiracia. Oh my God. Let's listen to something. Yeah. So this is a duet performance between Shiv Kumar, Sharma, and Harry Poseidh, Chiracia. And sometimes I'll sit on YouTube and I'll just watch this because they recorded this performance live. It's so beautiful to watch. And he's man, he's the best to me. Oh man, let me just shut up. Play this.

1:10:52Yeah.

1:11:23Yeah.

1:11:49Yeah.

1:12:21Yeah.

1:12:56Yeah.

1:13:22Yeah.

1:13:51Yeah.

1:14:24Yeah.

1:14:49Yeah.

1:15:22Yeah.

1:15:48Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1:16:31Yeah.

1:16:50Yeah.

1:17:19Yeah.

1:17:51Yeah.

1:18:23Yeah.

1:18:53Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is the whole album is called Valley Recall. What is that string instrument that's sound so plucky? Is it played with mallets? It's almost like a zither. Yeah. Like a zither type of instrument. And it's played with like these little wooden sticks. And to get a long note, you just let it bounce. Yeah. Yeah. So percussive. Yeah. Yeah. It is. Wobbly percussion. Yeah. Yeah. Do you listen to a lot of instrumental music? Yeah. Yeah. More so now than ever. I think because it gives you space for like young thoughts. You know, because sometimes you can just kind of get so caught up in the lyrics.

1:19:33Sometimes they're great lyrics. Yeah. But some like instrumental music is like just move score, like score for whatever you go on to. You know, and I really dig that a lot. How do you describe the energy you feel in music? When I was heavy into religion, I felt it was religious in a way.

1:19:57I remember times when I first started producing, I'd be in my studio. And I just finished with beat. And I'm by myself. So I'm like in my drawers, you know, playing a beat. And it like it'll be so moving to me. I'm standing up on a chair and just like, oh, like standing up on a chair, like feeling like there's a God or there's something. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Because it's an energy in it. It wasn't that you were great. It's that it was great. Yeah. There's something moving. I know I'm just kind of dealing with things, you know, moving them around. Yeah. Because there's energy in it.

1:20:41And there's some factors too. I remember there's times when we were mixing the love below. The mixing and the nail pole, we were both at the mixing board finishing up a mix doing something. We were listening back to a song. And I remember both of us just sitting there at the board and tears. Like tears. Like as we're mixing this fucking song, I'm like whoa. Something is happening. You know, and it's that powerful. Like, and that's what I'm going for. Like I always like I'm trying to go for the feel. Yeah. Like what does it make you feel? I think I was a really emotional kid too. So when I heard music as a child, like those were, and it hit me in a way that got me emotional.

1:21:25Even from someone else's story, like even I remember when I first heard fast car from Tracy Chapman. There's a line where she says she had to drop out of school to take care of her drunk dad. And I remember as a kid like, whoa. And I felt it like she's storytelling heavy, you know, like heavy. And then the story comes around, you know, her mom left because her dad went to living up to what she thought it would be. She wanted more than life than he could give. You know, but she's like, I'm the daughter. So somebody's got to take care of them. Oh, that's what it was. So somebody's got to take care of them.

1:22:05So I quit school. That's what I did. I was like, whoa. Yeah. And that hit me so hard. I was like, oh, so you can, you can tell, like real emotion, like you can tell stuff that's happening in this music. And that's, I've always strive to, uh, to get some realness, you know. Do you think I want people to feel it the same way I felt it? Do you feel like there's something about the music that's biographical? Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah, biographical and mirror like two other people, you know. Like, especially as a rapper, always respected it when I felt like I was hearing something from a rapper that was them.

1:22:44That's one thing I always respected about rap music and punk music and rock and roll, like there was a certain rawness that I liked that I always responded to. That kind of slice of real life, no matter how good or bad it is. It was powerful.

1:23:02In a world of artificial highs and harsh stimulants, there is something different. Something clean. Something precise. Athletic nicotine. Not the primitive products found behind convenience store counters. Not the aggressive buzz that leaves you jittery, but a careful calibration of clean energy and focused clarity. Athletic nicotine. The lowest dose tobacco -free nicotine available, made entirely in the USA. No artificial sweetness. Just pure, purposeful elevation. Athletic nicotine is a performance newtropic. Athletic nicotine is a tool for shifting mindsets. Athletic nicotine is a partner in pursuit of excellence.

1:23:48Flow release. Low dose. Gradual lift. Sustained energy. Soft landing. Inspired results. Athletic nicotine. More focus. Less static. Athletic nicotine. More clarity. Less noise. Athletic nicotine. More accuracy. Less anxiety. Athletic nicotine. From top athletes pushing their limits. To artists pursuing their vision. Athletic nicotine offers the lift you've been looking for. Learn more at athletic nicotine .com slash tattro. And experience next level performance with Athletic nicotine. Warning. This product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

1:24:37Tell me about your spiritual life. I don't have much of a spiritual life. To be honest, when I was younger, I did. I was heavy. You know, heavy into the church. I think I was just raised that way. Yeah, I'm not so much now. Where did the song titles come from? Somewhere. This thoughts I had laying around. Somewhere me trying to almost try to break up the expectation of this type of music. I think a lot of people feel like, you know, if you play flute or you're in a fight, you know, you're into this type of world. Like that you're not a full human. That you may not curse. That you may not have sex.

1:25:17You know, so I'm trying to like bring some humanness to it too. So in the titles, it was almost like I was trying to even it out in a way. Yeah. Because I knew people would take it in a heavy way. Yeah. So I was trying to sometimes be comical with the titles. Sometimes express things. Because I knew there was no lyrics. So that was the only place I had to. You could say anything. Yep. When we do these free form recordings, we record them so fast that sometimes we're just naming them places. And even the first song used to be called Beyond the Farrows. And that's because as soon as we finished playing it and went into control and listened, I was like, man, I can't wait to Ferrell Sanders here's this.

1:26:01You know. Yeah. And he's in the passing away before the album could come out. Yeah. Like sometimes the songs are just quick thoughts. Yeah. One song used to be called All Occasions. All Occasions ended up being the slang word pussy. But when it first played it and listened back to it, it's like, man, you can do anything to this song. So this song works for All Occasions. You can be a romantic man. Or, you know. So, you know, sometimes it's just a quick kind of place. But I felt like I knew people would read the title. So that was the only place that I had to say something. How do you think breath instruments are different than other instruments?

1:26:50The reason why I was attracted to breath instruments is because it's the only instrument besides the human voice where you're actually hearing the human. With a piano, your finger has a key, a hammer, a hammer has a string, then you hit a sound. A guitar, you pick his string or your finger has a string, it reverberates. So it's something in between the human. With flute playing and wind, you're actually hearing the wind of a human. And if you stop blowing the sound stops. Yep. Whereas you can hit a guitar chord. It'll keep ringing after you've hit it. So you're hearing the breath of like the breath of life and the instrument is the closest thing to singing.

1:27:34You know, that's why we just listen to Terezi. To me, he plays like ending and singing. Like, they're so skillful with how to go in between notes and even like, I'm doing a horrible job of it. But he plays in that way, like the way they practice singing. And I think it's dope when you can mimic that. And even like, you think of like a saxophone and vibrato is to mimic a singer. You know, like that was the kind of mimic what's singing. A lot of saxophone players early on, they were kind of playing in a style of the croners. You know, so they are mimicking human voice with the flute. You're actually hearing that when.

1:28:23Tell me about going around the world, going to antique stores, going to music stores, finding old instruments. Tell me about some of the characters you've come across. Well, that's one favorite story we go to in the bay. It's called Lark in the Morning. It's like it's an instrument store that has all these kind of odd instruments. And we're always so excited when we go to the bay because like, we're going to Lark in the morning, we're all getting in the van and go check out what they have new. Because they just got instruments from all over the world, you know. Some instruments in there are made by musicians that are just trying to make new instruments.

1:29:01So there's actually kind of like a mallet instrument that's kind of like a zalaphone that I play on stage that I bought from there. It's kind of like this zalaphone that's in a key. So there are no bad notes on it. You know, it's almost kind of like a pan drum in a way, but I get flutes all the time. It shows people who come and hand me some of their handmade flutes. Yeah, at this point I have so many flutes with fools and shakers. Yeah, I get a lot of instruments. I just remember any kind of I would go to any like collectors of anything that were always the most interesting people. Yes, yes. Well, well, we go to a lot of flea markets and a lot of people there are very interesting because they just sit and collect things and they're experts at it and they'll tell you about it.

1:29:52You know, it's just good to hear their stories. How does the place you're in impact the playing? A lot, especially the actual room, the environment. Sonically or what you see? Both, both. Sometimes it's just the energy of a crowd can make you play a way. Sometimes I may have been agitated at something and I'll play like an angry bird, not the game, but I'll play like yeah, I'm just trying to play through it in a certain way because there's some staleness happening in the room and you're trying to shake it up. What are some of your favorite places on the planet? Japan, of course. Japan is one of my favorite places.

1:30:39Tokyo or Kyoto or other parts? Kyoto. I love Tokyo as well. Osaka, you have been to the art islands? Yeah. Oh man, you got to take it out. Kind of get on this barge and go out to this island that they dedicated just for artists. Like so there's museums there. That sounds great. No, you got to check it out. It will. Amsterdam is a new favorite place. I like Amsterdam a lot. There's something about the art and fashion there. That's killer to me. Mexico City, I like Hawaii. I like Florence. It was one of my favorite places. Back in 2008 when I was working on Benjamin Bigsby clothing line, I spent a lot of time in Florence.

1:31:24And Hong Kong. Actually, I like Hong Kong as well. But yeah, Florence, man. Like the colors, the food. Like I was amazed. Like they'll have like a. You may just see a door open and you'll see people going in and you'll walk in. And it'll be a restaurant, but they won't have like a menu sign or anything. Yeah, no sign or menu. This is like this is what we're making today. Yeah. And if you want to saw them cool. Yeah. And you're in as the best food you ever had. Like it's a. It's free, man. I love it. Yeah, it's not the food is not for you. I don't know. But I'm saying it's a free way of thinking, like saying, well, this is what we're offering today.

1:32:05It's like going to someone's house for dinner. Exactly. I love Florence. That's my favorite. Yeah. It's the only city I could ever imagine living in. I don't like cities. Yeah. But I like Florence. Okay. That's a good way to think. Yeah. Tell me about music that comes from plants. Carlos Nino sometimes like depending on the city. He always likes to go and grab a fallen branch from wherever we are of leaves or something. And so and as Arsenal he just has like just stuff. You know, and so plants are actually under record. So they're just different plants and depending on what region. Yeah. So we're in, you know, he'll go out and find it and he'll bring it in and shake on it.

1:32:53And it'll be awesome. Before you started the album, did you make any rules about what you wouldn't use or do? Were there any like, we're not going to use any of these kind of instruments or only this parameter? That's funny because when we first started, like the only like, like rule, not even a rule, the only intention was I want to transport people from wherever they are. And everybody's like, oh yeah, we got that. That's easy, you know. But one thing we quickly found, even though I love saxophone, I quickly found that as soon as I hear saxophone, it pulls me to jazz. Yeah. And so we made the decision to, because we recorded some great songs with saxophone on them for some of the sessions for this album.

1:33:40But I didn't necessarily want it to sit in the jazz mode. I wanted to be more experimental. And so at a certain point, I was like, low -sman. Man, yeah, I don't know if I want any saxophone. That's a real specific choice. Yeah. Because it really does change it. Yeah, it makes it a thing. It does say jazz. It didn't know how you play it. It's true. Unless it does sound like saxophone. Right. It's possible. Right, yeah, yeah. And I love jazz. But it's kind of like a, I think for what we were going for, I didn't want it to sit in the jazz band. Even though there are jazz fans that come to what we're doing.

1:34:17But it makes it too on the nose. It's just like too strong a label to put on it. Like a limitation. Yeah, yeah. Have you ever worked in any physical media, paint, ceramics, anything like that? Of sure, all of them. Actually, before even rapping as a child. So I was a very little child. I always would draw and paint, make things, build things, and even now, as I get older, I'd see me doing it more. Even for like, during outcast times, I would draw things on CD. And since I've been living in Cali, I started going to Cal State and doing ceramics at Cal State. So there are sculptures that I've done that you'll see at some point.

1:35:00Painting is huge for me right now. I draw, I keep a sketchbook with me, I draw all the time. Because to me, it's the best way to pitch an idea or tell you something. Because sometimes, like words, the interpretation is just too vast. So if I can show you a picture or drawing of what I'm talking about, your brain connects to it easier. Then me saying it. If I say, yeah, man, I want this cool shirt. Cool, I mean a lot of things. I mean a lot of things. A lot of things. To different things. But if I draw it, your brain is right there. At least closest to what I'm saying. How do you get to name 3000?

1:35:423000 came around 1999. Right during their wives 2K scare. And I was like, man, let's think of head. So 3000 is the year 3000. We're going to 2000. Yeah. I was like, no 3000. So it was like, I'm great 3000. And then it just became kind of like an adjective or like a monochr soul. If I was in the studio and I'm in the control room working on some like a beat of some music and my homies will pop their head and depending on what type of music I was making. They'll say, if it was out there, they'd be like, oh, that's that 3000 shit. You know what I mean? Then they'll close the door and then go back out.

1:36:25Like if it was wild or like pushing it, you know, that's that 3000. So it became like an adjective for like next. Yeah. You know, pushing it. I would say the flute album is 3000. Oh, man. I hope. It's funny. You say that too because I was wondering, should I even call it Andre 3000? Yeah. Because now in retrospect, and I think I'm happy about the decision because in retrospect, I was like, well, if we just called it just the new blue sun band. Yeah, maybe like Roger. Yeah. And that was just it. I think it would have had a different life. I think so too. And I think what was important was the trajectory of this person from where I'm from to doing what I'm doing.

1:37:13I think that's all a part of the journey, all a part of the music. So I'm glad it was an Andre 3000 now. Me too. At the end, you know, because it actually turned a lot of people onto it. And with crazy thing, like I had like T .I. had, geez in them coming to the shows, like I was like I was just happy that people were coming to check it out. Yeah. That probably wouldn't have never checked out. Yeah. This kind of thing, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think it was a good bridge. I'm all, I love bridges. You know, I love things that connect things. So I think Alcass was a nice bridge for a lot of people.

1:37:47Can you think of any other artist who was known so specifically for doing something and did some things as different as you've done?

1:38:00Successfully. That's another part of it because you've done it successfully. It's hard, right? Yeah, I can't really think. And not just music and anything. Can anything.

1:38:15Yeah. It's interesting, right? Yeah. If there is anyone, it's a short list if it exists. But I can't come up with any examples. Well, Muhammad Boots from the Cool made music, you know, in the 90s up to 2000s and then started directing films. The films are awesome. That's a great change. Yeah, that's another major change. Yeah.

1:38:58Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Tetra Grammatin is a podcast. Tetra Grammatin is a website. Tetra Grammatin is a whole world of knowledge.

1:39:22What may fall within the sphere of tetra Grammatin? Counterculture, tetra Grammatin, sacred geometry, tetra Grammatin, the avant -garde tetra Grammatin, generative art, tetra Grammatin, the tarot, tetra Grammatin, out of print music, tetra Grammatin, biodynamics, tetra Grammatin, graphic design, tetra Grammatin, mythology, and the art of the art. And magic, tetra Grammatin, obscure film, tetra Grammatin, beach culture, tetra Grammatin, esoteric lectures, tetra Grammatin, off the grid living, tetra Grammatin, alt spirituality, tetra Grammatin, the canon of fine objects, tetra Grammatin, muscle cars, tetra Grammatin, ancient wisdom for a new age.

1:40:09Upon entering, experience the artwork of the day, take a breath, and see where you are drawn.

From the publisher

André Benjamin, popularly known as André 3000, is a rapper, singer, songwriter, producer, and actor best known as one half of the Southern hip hop duo Outkast. Described by Rolling Stone as “one of the genre’s most gifted lyricists,” André helped redefine Southern rap with classic albums like ATLiens, Aquemini, Stankonia, and the Grammy-winning Speakerboxxx/The Love Below, producing hits such as “Ms. Jackson” and “Hey Ya!” Beyond Outkast, he has contributed to music as a producer and collaborator with artists including Aretha Franklin, John Legend, and Frank Ocean, while also acting in films including Four Brothers and portraying Jimi Hendrix in Jimi: All Is by My Side. In 2023, André released his ambient flute album New Blue Sun, earning three Grammy nominations for Album of the Year, Best Alternative Jazz Album, and Best Instrumental Composition. This year, André released his album 7 Piano Sketches, a short, intimate collection of mostly improvised piano pieces that showcases the artist’s continued exploration of instrumental music beyond his hip hop roots.

------

Thank you to the sponsors that fuel our podcast and our team:

Squarespace

https://squarespace.com/tetra

Use code 'TETRA'

------

LMNT Electrolytes

https://drinklmnt.com/tetra

Use code 'TETRA'

------

Athletic Nicotine

https://www.athleticnicotine.com/tetra

Use code 'TETRA'

------

https://www.tetragrammaton.com/join-newsletter

Ask about this episode

In short

Transcript

More from Tetragrammaton with Rick Rubin