Andrew Henderson

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26:35It's an interesting thing that we get to experience when traveling in the world, growing up in the United States, watching movies and television, we get programmed to think of people in other places as either being bad actors or enemies, or I remember there was an episode of some, one of the comedies, an old episode from the 1940s, and they had Japanese people, not as human beings. They had more like animal -like features, and that was propaganda in that time. And now, there are places in the world where they're not teaching Tolstoy or Dostoevsky because the Russians are viewed as monsters. There's so many stereotypes that get projected to us, and one of the great things about traveling, is you see, none of that's true, we're all just people, and everybody's cool, and it's really nice to have that experience of meeting beautiful Japanese people and beautiful Russian people and great Chinese people, and lovely South American people, and friendly Arabic people, and it's a great experience, and I think that's one of the benefits is it's harder to have an enemy when you can meet the people and see they're not the monsters that we're being told.

27:55I think also where people excuse what happens in their own country. I mean, you mentioned the Russians. There's plenty of Russians who don't like what's happening right now, geopolitically, and somehow they're just cut out of the whole system now. I mean, what if that happened to Americans? What if the world's, and by the way, I think that you are seeing 29 % of the world is sanctioned by the US financial system now, up from like 8 % to the turn of the century. 8 % you can probably explain. There's some bad actors. 29 % of the world is under US sanctions. Do you think none of those people, as their economies grow, Nigeria, Indonesia, Brazil, China, India, you think none of those guys are going to say, hey, you know what, we're tired of being under your boot.

28:43We're going to do something on our own. And I mean, what if Americans are shut out of certain opportunities some days, and what if the West continues to go down a path where you have fewer freedoms? You have less freedom of speech. You're not allowed to speak out. I mean, we don't have to get into all the things they're talking about. But I just think that I'd like to have a connection to a different part of the world. You're saying, yes, it's not that scary. But I'll say this, if you get robbed in the United States, you're going to blame the criminal, not the United States. But if you were to go to Colombia, would you blame yourself that, oh, you maybe didn't go to the right neighborhood?

29:20Because my neighborhood, there's nothing happening in my neighborhood in Colombia. It's pretty safe neighborhood. It's some pretty just normal, successful Colombian people. So why is it you'd go to Colombia and blame Colombia? But in the United States, you blame the criminal. Just it's this thing where, again, it's the Coca -Cola. We are on the side of this brand. So therefore, it's not the brand that's the problem. And it's just, it's so disingenuous. Tell me about the differences between Mexico and the United States. The projection is Mexico's a dangerous place. And be wary of going. What's your opinion?

29:59Well, again, I had to turn off the alerts, and it's sad. But I mean, how often was there some shooting in the US? And it's just, again, in the US, you're like, well, nobody shot me. Okay, I mean, how long have we all spent in Mexico? I mean, Mexico City, I was telling people when Trump was running in 2015, don't move to Canada if Trump wins. Move to Mexico. It's much better. It's cheaper that people are just as nice. The food's better. Everything's better. And it's actually, you can actually move there to your point. People just think, like, oh, I'm an American. I can just move wherever I want.

30:31No, you can visit most places, but to move there, no. So I think Mexico, obviously, if you look at the statistics, and that's what I'm about, yes. Things like murder rates and stuff are higher. But let's isolate that. Where can you go to avoid that? If you live in Naperville, Illinois, it's an example I use a lot. You're not really concerned what happens in Chicago. That's why you moved out of Chicago. So you figured out where to go. So if you live in Mexico City and you live in Lomas, for example, you're probably going to be fine. So there's certain areas that you don't want to avoid. And then again, I say, okay, well, if the goal was to avoid violent crime, you have to move out of the US because it's in the top one -third of violent countries.

31:10Most other countries, including the UAE and all those Gulf countries that Americans kind of poo poo, they have like 90 % less violent crime. It's almost not existent in those places. So I think Mexico is a great soft landing. Again, the food is similar, the culture is similar. I think people there hugged their families more. The president of Mexico was picking on Joe Biden recently. We're all about family here. Well, your country's breaking down. Like, yeah, we're the ones moving the drugs. You guys are the ones taking them. So I think there's more of a cult. There's more of a family environment in Latin America.

31:46And yet I think that, I remember, who was it? I was talking to Mexican guy. This is many years ago. And he's like, yeah, people like Americans think that like we're the machissimo guys. And it's kind of the patriarchy. He's like, that's what we think about you guys. So I just think perspective is valid. Perspective that seven European countries have the US and a travel advisory list. Because of all the shootings and all the violence. So like, again, is it only what your country does that counts? Or is it when Germany's like, hey, you know, you might not want to go to the US because there's a lot of stuff happening.

32:21Oh, there isn't Cal, there's no euro trash. I remember. Like, let's just have one thing for everybody. And if you apply that, I think that Mexico is fine. Let's talk about Europe, the benefits of moving from the US to Europe and the difference between the countries. I see, I'm increasingly seeing a very strong divide between the Northern European countries and the Southern ones. I mean, you're in Italy. So it's a bit more laid back. Stuff doesn't always work. I don't think I've been to Italy a single time of my life where somebody's not on strike for something. So, you know, are you going to, if you're going to live there, you're going to hire a driver, you're going to do, you know, okay, you can manage that.

32:59But it's just a different environment. And so I think that some of Europe is probably too laid back for some Americans, although there's some Americans who are looking for that. I look at Europe as, I mean, it really is something for everyone. So to me, Ireland is nice people. Don't need to speak a new language. It is international, but there's just a charm to it. You know, Italy is laid back. The food, you know, Spain has kind of its own vibe. So I think that, you know, it's hard to put Europe into one bucket. I mean, we have a guy who's, we're helping move him to Germany. We don't do a lot of that because Germany has high taxes.

33:38Most of our businesses around, in addition to everything else, kind of lower my tax bill. Italy, Ireland, Portugal, Greece, allow Switzerland, allow me to do that. But big difference between Switzerland, which is probably too much bureaucracy and too much hassle to move into for most people, things are going to work there. They're not tolerating things and not working. Where you take the train I did last year, you take the train from 0 to like coma. It's night and day. So I think people have the opportunity to pick what they want from Europe. But I think that again, it's a brand that Americans are familiar with.

34:12When I said people are moving to Serbia and to Montenegro, that's because they'd seen me talking, everyone who'd been watching me for years suddenly had a need and they'd heard me talking about those places. And so they were kind of preconditioned to it. But most people, the brand Serbia is, it's where the villains from the spy show are from. And that's why I think like Portugal seems familiar. And I just think that most Westerners have not moved overseas, especially Americans, it's a new concept. Why do I need to do this? Let me follow wherever else is going. And so that's why Portugal's become successful recently.

34:47But I'm not sure that's the best place to go. I've been to Montenegro and it's not so different from Italy. First of all, it's very close, maybe less than an hour away. The architecture feels very similar. The food feels very similar. It feels just on the other side of a small body of water. They have one of the best, I think the best, statistically yacht club in all of Europe. And it's open, it's open to everybody. So you've got a lot of people from Russia now, you've got people from Ukraine now, because it's open to everyone. And so it's a bit more neutral. Yeah, I like it. I mean, they use the Euro, so it's not particularly cheap, the place like Serbia is much more affordable, without the coast.

35:26The Balkans is a very traditionalist region, though. I know some people are looking for that. I mean, when I flew from Dublin to Belgrade about a month ago, you get at the plane, it feels different. I mean, women want to be women in a very old school way in those parts. And so it's a very interesting dynamic. I guess Italy is certainly more conservative than people would think. And people kind of, oh, it's Western Europe. I mean, it's more conservative than much of Western Europe. But the Balkans are kind of a new level. You've spent time in Georgia. Can you tell us about Georgia? Georgia is interesting.

36:02I think, I mean, the time to invest in Georgia, at least for now, is probably past, because you have all this Russian money coming in. The currency shot through the roof. It was one of the best performing currencies against the dollar last year, in a year when the dollar didn't do that badly, because you had all this foreign currency coming in. I mean, I think we've had people who've tripled their property investments in a couple of years, because now there's just so much demand. So I always like to buy when things are down. But so right now, Georgia's buzzing. I think that it's really not much cheaper to live there anymore than it would be to live probably where you are.

36:36And so what I like about Georgia, though, is they have some of the best wines. They have an amazing cuisine. I wouldn't say that service in like a restaurant is great. But if you get to know some people, like if you said, hey, you're coming to Georgia, my entire staff, we have like 20 people there in an office, would cancel their plans, and they would make sure you had the best experience for whether it's a day, a week, like whatever. They really take care of guests. And so it's a very interesting place. I think that they're looking to be a little bit more European than let's say the Balkans. And so someone who wants that extremely traditional view would probably have a better home in somewhere in the Balkans.

37:16But for someone who kind of wants this interesting Eurasian kind of crossroads experience with great food, great wine, again, kind of traditional, it's very interesting place. And they've really done a lot of innovations in terms of like banking. You can open bank accounts there. You can pay your bills very easily. I have a couple of properties there. It just all runs on autopilot. And it's extremely safe. I mean, they really came in and just got rid of all the crap. And where exactly is it located? East of Turkey, just a little bit north, but east of Turkey, south of Russia. So obviously what people point to from the west is that there was a skirmish with Russia back in 2008.

37:59Obviously we've seen that with Ukraine, it could have been much worse. But there's about 20 % of the territory that's occupied in Akhazia and in kind of the central northern region by Russia and their people. And then so yeah, it's kind of it was called the Kakassas Mountains. So you're not that far from Iran. I mean, it's a neighborhood that Americans look at and say, eh, and yet I think they've done an incredible, we interviewed the old president. He's unfortunately found himself the victim of some political stuff. But I mean, he did an incredible job. He was Columbia educated, turned the place around, told the IMF to go take a hike.

38:35And I mean, they slash taxes, they slash bureaucracy, they made everything transparent. I mean, I think they're slowing down a little bit now, but they were higher ranked in the US in terms of free economies for years. So it's been amazing. If you were concerned about the war, what would be the safest places to move to avoid potential for war? I suppose a lot of the billionaires have gone to New Zealand. I mean, New Zealand and Australia have put up a very, very high price tag to move in there. I just don't think this place is worth it. I think that, I mean, for me, I'd like to place it to back up, but I could also enjoy.

39:12Most people I know who moved to New Zealand, they don't find that that enjoyable. It's a little boring. I think South America is interesting, and here's why. Most of the South American countries do immigration based on income. So if you can show and make $1 ,000 or $2 ,000 or $800 or whatever it is by the country, most of those countries, that's how they give you residents permits. And many of those countries do not require you to live there at all or a substantial part of the year in order to keep your residents permit. Now, if you want to get citizenship in those countries, you'll generally need to live there.

39:45But Argentina, it's as little as two years. But I think that, like, if you look at Southern Hemisphere, it's a difference. But it's like only 9 or 10 % of the world's populations in South America. There are these kind of leftist political movements, but guys like Doug Casey would tell you, they largely look at you as the foreigner and like, all right, he's bringing some, I leave the guy alone on his vineyard. Doesn't mean that'll always be the case, but I kind of think that you have tons of land available. It's affordable, immigration's easy. You're far away from pretty much all the world's problems.

40:15That's why you never see those countries talking about any of the problems that are happening in the world. They don't really pick a side. And I think it could be a good geopolitical hedge because some of those countries are more eastern leaning now. And if I'm looking at the way the world's going to unfold in my lifetime, do I want to be only attached to countries that love the United States? I don't. Which countries in particular would you look at in South America? I think it's somewhat personal preference. I mean, there's a case for Chile, which is obviously one of the most developed. I mean, you walked through Santiago again.

40:47I didn't find it very interesting, but it feels to me in some ways like Vancouver, Canada. I don't know why, but it just feels very developed. They have a great passport. So Chile, I mean, they're becoming more left -leaning if that's an issue for you, but that's been historically good one. Again, lots of land, not cheap, but if you have a bit more money, Chile could work. Argentina is much as, despite all their problems, if you can keep your stuff at set of Argentina works. I suppose the one that probably makes the most sense on paper is Uruguay, the Switzerland of South America. You're really far away.

41:18Good passport, very much like a lot of Europeans that are living there. Again, I did not find it to be the most exciting place in the world, but that's probably the most strategic place that I would go. It's a blend of being reasonably priced, reasonable to get in, like everything's reasonable. Colombia, obviously, is not that far into it. I think Ecuador also could be interesting. You can get really, really cheap land if you want to be self -sufficient. So, I mean, I'm looking at every possible thing that could happen, Rick. Do I want to live in the jungles of Ecuador? It sounds nice, and you got to bet what I'm doing it.

41:53I'll be like, okay, this is a little much. But I can see a point in time where you would like to have that option. So, if you could spend 50 ,000 to have a ton of land with banana trees and a little stream going through your land, up to a couple hundred thousand and build a house on the cheap. And, you know, those are four countries that I would look at. Tell me about the Nordic countries, Sweden, Denmark, Finland. So, you know, I, Norway was the first country I went to as an adult. It was the first language outside of school that I learned. And I forgot everything because I went to Norway, and almost immediately, I, you know, and in these countries where English is widely spoken, I started speaking in Norwegian, and they're just like, yeah, just go to the street and you'll find where you're looking for them.

42:39I'm like, okay, I think Norway's beautiful. I like that those countries, they seem to be a galaitarian in a way that the United States pretends it is, but it's not. In that, for example, if you're single and you go in a date, like she's going to insist on paying, there's true equality. There's true, like, hey listen, we're all shipping in together. Taxes are high for pretty much everybody, you know? I mean, if you go to prison, the goal is actually to be rehabilitated, not just like we lock you in a cage. I mean, I think people generally are looking out for each other. Now, I don't necessarily agree with the high taxes.

43:13I don't know why, you know, for me, I've made the vast majority of my wealth while I'm traveling the world. Can you really assign that to a high school in the Cleveland, Ohio area when there are kids in my class who have died of drug overdoses? I mean, why aren't they also multi -millionaires? And so I say to myself, if it's really about the individual, why do I want to live in a place where they're going to not only take half of my money, but publish how much I paid. And so they're beautiful countries. I love the people. I have a couple Norwegian friends. It's just not countries that we interact with that much because I don't see an incredible investment potential.

43:49They're highly regulated, low returns. The currencies aren't even as stable as the euro in some cases. I just, there's no appeal to me other than I would love to visit Iceland and have a nice time. But nobody really is moving there. But I respect them for at least doing a perfect job of what they do. And it's not like, hey, this guy pays no taxes and you pay a lot of taxes like the US. It's like, listen, we're all chipping in. We're all getting government services. And they're not as socialist as people think they are, by the way. But they're still, it's just, at least it's what they believe in and it's done well rather than the Schmorgas board in the US.

44:28Just not my vibe. Understood. Yeah. Let's talk about Africa. I've been to some places in Africa. I think that again, I probably don't spend as much time. So I think people are afraid of it. And to a certain extent, I balance my life as marketable stuff that our business can offer to people. I think Egypt is a very interesting place. I mean, I called investing in Istanbul a few years ago. You could buy property in Istanbul, Turkey, for a thousand dollars a meter. That even five years ago was what I would call extremely cheap. Forget about now with the inflation. And I said, no matter what happens, Istanbul is still a mega city.

45:05And they're doing the right thing with manufacturing in that country. And I've been proven right property prices, despite the currency crash, are through the roof in dollar terms. Partially thanks to the war. I look the same way at a place like Cairo. You've got a mega city in a very interesting part of the world, influential part of the world. I think that could be very interesting. They have their currency problems. They have some governance problems. But that's something that we're looking at very strongly. I think Rwanda is very well run. That's kind of increasingly talked about East Africa.

45:39I mean, Kenya is on the scene for stuff like tech. I think tech. If you wanted to go and start a business and learn from zero at 18 years old, I would consider going to East Africa and getting into one of these tech spaces because there's a lot of innovation happening right now. And Africa is going to skip some of the stuff that we had and are now replacing. There's going to go right to the new thing. I think a lot of that innovation is happening in East Africa, driven largely out of Nairobi. I think Rwanda for a local play is very interesting. I think Cairo for investment. By the way, to your point about war, I guess you could live in Mauritius or something that's pretty far away from it all.

46:14And they've got a pretty multicultural well run island. I was there and it's nice. So I think there's a lot of opportunities in Africa. And if I were a young kid, I would consider going there because the returns on some of the stuff are insane. But it is hard work. So those are a couple of plays that we're looking at. But obviously, I mean, you've got so many countries that would be impossible to keep up with. Let's talk about Mauritius a bit more since you've been there. And Mauritius, say, shells, that region benefits negatives. Yeah, that whole Indian Ocean region. I think say, shells is kind of known as one of these classic offshore jurisdictions, like Belize, people set up trusts and they set up companies.

46:54And it doesn't really work anymore. From our point of helping entrepreneurs, setting up shop in these far -flung islands really isn't what gets banks and everybody else wants to work with you. But to live, I don't know if the say shells offers as many opportunities. Mauritius is more on a radar because if you buy a home, for example, you can get permanent residents. And if you live there and if they like you, you can get citizenship. That's a very eclectic, interesting citizenship. I think Mauritians are one of only four or five countries that can go to both Europe, Russia, China, and then have access throughout all of Africa.

47:27So if you're like predicting the future, that wouldn't be a bad passport to have. I think it's relatively well laid out. It may be on some levels kind of like a Malaysia, but there's no neighbors to it. So you don't have a lot of the trade going on regionally. But I would call it maybe something like that kind of level of life. You're not going to have some of the conveniences, but if you want a bit slower pace of life or stuff at least works, it's one of those countries where I feel like the government is a little bit better than some of the people maybe. And it's like a really remarkable story where they've done a good job making it a very well -respected country.

48:05I mean, there are one of only two countries in Europe where the citizens can visit Europe without a visa. So that tells you something. I was told a story by Leonard Cohen years ago. He owned a home in Greece. And he spent a lot of time in Greece. And one day someone came to his house and said, you don't own this house. This is a house that's in my family, and it's not your house. And it was a whole complicated legal thing that went on for a very long time. Are those types of stories still happening? I think in this city is not so much. I think they've made improvements. Of George, we mentioned, is kind of moved towards the blockchain for keeping track of this kind of stuff.

48:44But I'll tell you a story that happened in Georgia. And I don't think the property would have been taken from me but of how things could have been difficult. I went to a city called Signahi, which is in the wine region. It's beautiful. Kind of has Ciena or Verona vibes. Anyone can get married 24 hours a day for like $15. They give you a bottle of wine and a book of poems. It's a beautiful job they do. And right off the city center. I mean, right off the city center, there's $80 ,000. There's a foreclosure of the shell of like a five -story building that you can make a hotel, like a boutique hotel.

49:16I didn't want to be in a hotel business, but I thought, let's check this out with one of my builder friends. We go out there. And the bank says, okay, take the guy that we're foreclosing the property from. And he'll show you. So it's very kind of like family oriented. It's not like so procedural. But then we're talking to this guy. How much is the property? It's $150 ,000. We're like, what are you talking about? We call the bank, know it's $80 ,000. And basically it came down to, hey, listen. All these neighbors are my friends. Like I've known them for years. You don't want them screwing with you at every turn because they're with me.

49:48And so if you don't pay the $150 ,000, maybe he didn't say this exactly, but that there's kind of a known commodity in the villages, for example. Right? I own some land in Georgia, but it's not in a village. If it was in a village, and I tried to build some beautiful house, people might push back. But I think there's a big difference in those countries between the villages and the cities. And the people in the cities look down on them. And I think unlike in New York, where Americans may have a point like, oh, they're so, you know, I think I'll side with the people into Blycy or Athens because it's just like, hey, let's follow the rules.

50:20Greece is a country that while it's in the EU, it has had some of those issues. So I think that there's probably improvement. I think living in kind of defined cities or resort areas is better. I don't know that it's as bad of like you just don't own it yet. I mean, there's corruption in some places. I don't think it's a better people thing. I think the bigger issue is just being screwed with. And I think if you know someone on the ground, which is kind of what we help people do, you would know all those issues going in. If you just go in and think it's the same thing as buying property in Dana Point, California, you're in for a rude awakening.

50:55And that's the goes back to that thing with Americans, where it's like, everything must function exactly the same. It doesn't. In Georgia, I can transfer a title to you today, cost 20 bucks. That's been pretty easy. Now there's some of the softer issues in a village. Other countries it might take you a year to transfer a title. So every country is different. Some are better. Some are better in different ways than others. But you've got to understand it's not the same. So you have to be an expert in your role everywhere to be able to deal with these details in all these places. Because it is different everywhere.

51:31We run a service business with decent margins. And yet I said to myself, if the margins accounted for all of my years of going to places like Laos and doing everything that the guy from Dana Point, California doesn't want to do, he just wants the end result. How do I get a higher yield on my investment? My yields are zero. I make no profit. I mean, I've done stuff that most people wouldn't want to do. And it's a constant process. I've got a team where we just call people and we sus out their information. And you have to have a network on the ground. Now again, in Ireland, are you going to be screwed?

52:08No. But the way the inspections on a property work once your offer is accepted, it's still different. It's not like, oh my God, someone's going to take advantage of you. But you still want to know how it works. But if you're going to Georgia, it's going to be different. And everyone I know who goes to some of these countries, they're like, oh, I'm going to go look for my own properties. They come back and I'm like, you paid 20 % too much. And that's if you're lucky. I mean, Turkey has a program where you can get citizenship by making an investment in property. And I guess now that air to one can't reelect it, it's going to continue.

52:39You invest $400 ,000 in a property. I did that and my property is up, I don't know, 30 or 40 % in dollar terms. I'm like, 300 % in lear at terms. But a lot of people they go and they buy these kind of beautiful developments. In Americans think, oh, you buy a development, nothing wrong with that. The developments are just basically ways for developers to screw you because they're worth half in some cases immediately. And if you don't know that, if you don't know who the bad builders are, I mean, you're going to be screwed. And so does that mean that their country is such a disaster? No, I mean, I think that happens at some developments in the US.

53:15But, you know, what was that they were talking? One Trump was running, oh, the guy is in Tampa. He licensed his name too. They didn't build it. But it comes down to you've got to know how the other place works. Have you lived in primarily Buddhist country? I don't think I have. Yeah, where would that be? I mean, I've spent a lot of time in China like 12, 13 years ago. And I'm glad I did it then. There's obviously, you know, some parts of that are Buddhist, but most not. You know, I'll tell you this though. There's a great book called The Geography of Bliss. It's a bit old now, but they talked about countries like Bhutan and just how happy people are.

53:49And maybe you're curious like, are the people happier? Yeah. I don't know that it's only about Buddhist. I mean, I think that again, Malaysia, Philippines, you've got some of the happiest people. That's a big change because, you know, you always hear in the West, oh, the Danish are the happiest people. I mean, I don't know, maybe they are. I bought one of those books from like the Danish art of happiness. The whole book is like light a candle and have a piece of chocolate. I will compare having been to all these countries in Europe. I will gladly put up the people in Southeast Asia as being just as happy.

54:19I was in Lesotho in Africa. I wasn't there long enough, but I got the sense that maybe they're some of the people are pretty happy. And I think that happiness exists in interesting places. Tell me about the YouTube channel. How did it start? I think my secret of success is I just put one foot in front of the other. And so we had a, I mean, when I started what was a blog? And I was in the process of selling everything in the US. I bought NomadCompless .com and I figured I'll just be a guy who travels and I'll find investments in parts of the world and I'll just work on my deals in whatever country.

54:52And maybe I can be a media creature and talk about it. And so I reserved the domain. I set up like a radio show. It was like a podcast that was on the radio. And I started, I was my opportunity to interview all these guys and just start to build connections with consultants and people who, you know, whatever they did business in China, Mungolio, whatever else. And so we put this up on YouTube. And then I forgot about it for a few years. And then I just started kind of saying, I want to have a voice on stuff that's happening and kind of maybe speak to some of these misconceptions people have. And it just kind of exploded.

55:25I don't even know. I just think it was very entrepreneurial. You put some stuff out. People respond. You go here, you zig, you zig. And I come from a broadcasting background. I think it's a skill that I have. And it just kind of got better and better and better. And I never really thought like, I'll be reaching the right people. I just, to me, was about sharing the message. And from that, I mean, yeah, there's a lot of leakage in terms of people who just aren't going to work with you. Especially when you do stuff that goes viral. You get a lot of people who just want to criticize like, oh, you know, the stuff we're talking about.

56:00Oh, this goes in Mexico. Get ready to be killed. But I just always looked at it as the message. And yet I guess from a top of the funnel perspective, you got enough of those people to say, yeah, I like this. This is honest. I think that's what's in missing, Rick. When I came into this, everyone said, are you going to have a pen name? This is 2012. I was talking about doing this and sharing my expertise. And everybody in the industry had a pen name that you're using stock photos. I said, you know, that seems like 90s to me. People want transparency. And this business has a bad image. I want relaunch per newers, the kinds that I hang out with, to want to go where they're treated best.

56:40I don't want shady people hiding under a rock. Like, I want fully legal, fully above board. And I want the people that that attracts. So you're not going to get that by being like, oh, here's a stock photo. So for me, YouTube was kind of a natural transition to, let's bring some sunlight and show people. This is not just people who are like trying to hide their money like the Wolf of Wall Street, the Swiss bank. This is something you can do legally. And it's worth it. You recommended people from New York and California not moving to Florida and Texas, but to go further. Yeah, let's talk about that.

57:17It's interesting because I know so many people in California who move to Texas. And I know quite a few people in New York who move to Florida. The only exception I would say is, if you're an expat for US tax purposes, removing your California doma cell first is not a bad idea. But the idea of, I'm tired of California, so I'm going to move to Florida or Texas, whatever. First of all, from a tax perspective, oh, the taxes are so much lower. Well, the biggest tax is the federal tax. For some people, even if you make, you know, 100 grand in some cases, the bigger tax is the social security and Medicare, the payroll tax, if you're self -employed.

57:54I mean, sure, if you make millions of dollars a year, you can save decent money by moving to those places. You do see, by the way, that like Texas has much higher property taxes. So you're paying in some way. Again, the more money you make, the more you can arbitrage that. But, you know, if you're going to move, you might as well move. Number one, if you live in New York, I would bet that perhaps Dublin. Or London, it's harder to get into if you're not a citizen. But, you know, I'd argue that's more culturally rough. Now, eventually all the New Yorkers will go to Florida and all the New Yorkers will bring New York politics to Florida, by the way.

58:31So you'll have some of the same problems again. I would argue that culturally speaking is a place that's closer. If you're in California, maybe living in Baja would be better for you. Maybe living in somewhere in Southeast Asia would actually be more similar to what you're used to. But, I just don't know what people go through this great effort. They talk about, oh, my kids have to change schools if I go overseas. Well, your kids have to change schools if you move to Florida. So if you're going to do it, why don't you just do it and push the pedal all the way to the metal. And just do it right.

59:00And so, yes, I mean, I have a business that focuses on the tax side. That's what makes money. And so you're not, you can save 90 % off shore. You can save 20 % in Florida. But I just happen to think that you're going to have to adapt regardless. Right? I mean, don't you think? Yes. And as part of that adaptation, let's talk about medical care in the US versus other places. Tell me about it. I go back to Malaysia, Prince Court Hospital. I mean, this place is like a museum. I did a check up there recently. They checked everything. They did ultrasounds. They did bone scans. They did everything. And you actually got paid attention to by the doctor.

59:38I must have sat there and shot the breeze with her for 25 minutes. It was 300 bucks. And she spent 10 years studying and living in London. So she didn't go to, you know, some weird school. I mean, she, they all, I don't think you can practice at that hospital if you didn't go to school in the UK. And I think that the quality of care I've seen, I had an issue when I was in Thailand 10 years ago. I lost a bunch of weight, which I think living outside of the US just does to you. The doctor was just like, listen, we checked you. You're fine. Good to make Donald's have a hamburger. I contrast that to when I got like a context stuck in my eye and it cost $2 ,000 to go to the emergency room.

1:00:16And I'm like, you know, like some scared kid. I'm like, could I die? I'm like, we can't roll it out. And I'm like, listen, how about you charge me 300 bucks? You do a full review. You're pleasant. You actually listen to me rather than bum rushing me out in 30 seconds. You know, it's just, it's like real care. And so when people say, hey, that's the flip side of things being a bit less formal than they are in the US in these countries. Is there a bit less formal in all the good ways too? Thailand's good for health care. Malaysia's my personal favorite. I guess Singapore is not really any, any cheaper.

1:00:49But I've gotten good care all over in the world. The worst health care I've gotten has been in the United States. And look at what you pay for it. Why do you think people are so nice in other parts of the world and people in the US don't seem to manage that? What do you think it is? I imagine there's places in the US where people are nice. But I think that, I mean, the political system, I've been watching my entire life. I mean, it's been dividing conquer my entire life. Obviously, politics exist everywhere. But I think people really, I mean, first of all, you have a country that's so different in so many ways.

1:01:21I mean, look at Europe. I mean, Moldova. There's parts of Moldova that want to break off. Like, listen, we're nothing like those guys 20 miles away. So it's really remarkable how the US has stayed together. But you're seeing how people with different views are at each other's throats now. Listen, I believe in work. I'm a workaholic. So I don't want to say like sitting around and doing nothing is the answer. But I will say that people who have goals beyond materialism exist outside of the US. And that's the one thing I kind of get to set when people pick on the US is like, let them do what they want.

1:01:56But obviously, it's not leading to happiness for many people. Again, I go back to the malaise. What are their goals? But when I wake up, I want to have three good meals. The question you ask someone in Malaysia, if you want to show you care, what would you ask your kids? Have you eaten? It's an eating culture. People want to eat of the local population. Their goal is to buy a bike. And then their goal is to buy a local made parodua or proton car. Obviously, the Malaysian Chinese, maybe they want to buy them Mercedes. But the local, the Malay people who run the country, they don't have a lot of aspirations.

1:02:30And so I think there's something that we can learn from that. And I could never be at that level. But I'm closer to that level being around people who are just genuinely nice. Being like fake nice and then the moment someone raises their voice, five decibels and you start exploding at them, that's not nice. Nice is I'm just chill all the time. I take nothing personally. I wish nobody ill and it really is remarkable. I mean, by the way, you'll meet my wife, like these friends, some of the most stunning women in the world. And they're like just genuinely like, oh, I wish everybody will. No pettiness, none of that.

1:03:06And I think that's probably true in a lot of these places, but it's true. It seems like it's true with the weather's better, by the way. Like when you don't have to worry about like preparing for winter, that seems like that helps. It seems like weather is a key. I know for me whether it's a key in the choices that I make of where I go and when. And we can choose to live in a summer like experience all year long if we choose to. And what I found was like, I don't want four months, I mean, I grew up with five months of snow. But you know what? It's nice to have two weeks of snow. So whether you buy a ski shell, a's an investment somewhere or you just rent something, I think it's nice to go to the Christmas markets in Europe.

1:03:47But you want a little snow, go and see the nutcracker at the opera house, like to say summer 365 days a year, I think probably gets old. But you get to choose just exactly how much you want. Let's talk about education in different parts of the world. My philosophy, we're going to have children. And I've talked about this. I would hire a tutor. I think the people who want to live in the Western countries, you can. I mean, you can go to countries like Ireland, it's tax -friendly, people are nice. But I think that Western countries are going to follow a more progressive education model that some of the people that I've talked to don't want their kids to hear.

1:04:23You can certainly send your kids to international schools in any places that we've talked about. They exist. They're good. You can certainly homeschool. And there are many countries that allow you to do that, including most of the ones we've talked about today. For me, I would say, where can I find, I mean, when you do this global citizenship thing, here's an extra benefit. If you run a business, you say where can I hire people? Some of our best team members are making triple what all their friends make in their country. And it's one third of what we'd pay in the US. And there are three times as good.

1:04:52And the attitudes are better because they're hungry. And the same thing I would apply to let me find a tutor for my child. And so at this point, I'm looking for, if I'm going to buy a new house, is there room somewhere for like a tutor to live looking forward? And if the homeschooling is allowed in the countries we're talking about, you can create your own curriculum and have someone who's an experienced person who knows, by the way, talk with the Balkans. Some of the most educated people on geography, history, et cetera, I'd rather have them teaching my kids about that stuff than someone in the United States.

1:05:28So let's find the best educators in the world for our kids. And again, if you move to Malaysia, just let's front on that example. Your cost of living versus New York is 70 % less, something like that, whatever lifestyle you choose, your taxes are potentially aided 90 % less. You've got a lot of money suddenly, even if you're not like a gazillionaire, to say, yeah, I'm going to hire a private tutor from Romania, the best. And pay them $50 ,000 a year. And my Malaysian immigration pass allows me to bring one personal staff member in on my pass. I don't have to get them their own immigration. That's very doable.

1:06:09And by the way, not only the savings, but I would imagine the education will be substantially better. Our experience is we have a tutor who we met in Costa Rica. And she wasn't allowed to come. She's not allowed in the United States. So that's not the reason issue. She's close to recon. So that was an issue of like, if his teacher can come, do we even want to come back? Yeah, the US people don't realize. Again, I think Americans don't realize. I remember my parents came to Malaysia and we had a dinner with one of my friends from Egypt. And they said, oh, if you visited the US, and I'm like, guys, she's a 35 year old single woman from Egypt.

1:06:49And this was during like when Trump was in and whether you agree or not, they were talking about the Muslim ban. She's not practicing Muslim, but she is by birth Muslim. Like those people don't get visas, right? I mean, if you look up the adjusted refusal rates for visas, it's probably 50 % in Egypt. Right? And many people don't even bother trying. So I mean, if your goal was to hire a tutor who could go to the United States, the work requirements, I'm sure, are very complicated. I don't deal with all that. But I mean, just the fact that they be quote unquote working for you could be an issue, but you'd have to hire someone from Croatia or something or Poland.

1:07:24I mean, they recently got access to the US. So you could do that if that was a goal and you could work at the legalities of having them work for you three months a year. But I mean, the US is one of the least inviting places and people don't realize how difficult it is. When I got set up with my residents in Ireland, I think we got an answer in three weeks. And they actually made a mistake the first time and we emailed them. They overly apologized for their mistake and they corrected it within 24 hours. I know US immigration attorneys who are waiting for their clients five years and they've got to sue the government just to get someone a decision.

1:07:57So go where you're treated best, man. You know, go to the US in the summer or something. Tell me a bit about passports. Well, I got about five these days. I got rid of the US one because I just felt it was not going to be easy going forward to be an expat. I never particularly cared for the identity. Obviously going to place like Ireland people hear the accent. But most places they don't. I think everyone needs at least two. I think three could be a good idea. If you have someone in your family tree, that could be an option for practically nothing. How easy is that? Well, everything's easy and nothing's easy.

1:08:36I mean, so in my case, I just spent nine years. Some years more active than others running around the world collecting documents from my Lithuanian citizenship. At the end, they left two years too early. Sorry, but we had to go like to various locations. I had a friend doing it for Romania. He had to go to the village and then he finds that the village, whatever town hall, burned down. So I mean, sometimes it's easy. Sometimes you have the record sitting in your safe at home and that's just okay. We put together the case. We file it. Sometimes you've got to go schlepping all over the world to find some.

1:09:07I had to find a piece of paper from the US saying my ancestor was Lithuanian. I said, they don't really do that in the US. Like, once you're American, you're American, right? It's not like we finally found something. But at the end, it wasn't good enough. So we have people who they just, you know, hey, my grandfather was Italian. Here's the documents. We file it and it's done. And we have some like mine where it's nine years of often on, you know, palavering. But the benefit of that is, you know, we help people get citizenship in the Caribbean and other countries where they're making a donation or in Turkey.

1:09:40They're buying property. It's economic. Bring in some cash. We'll give you citizenship in a matter of months. That's efficient. If you need a citizenship quickly, that's probably the fastest way to do it. Italian, you might wait three, four, five years, even if your case is easy. Just the filing because they're not in a hurry, right? But the benefit of Italian, I wasn't, I might do both. I might get a Caribbean citizenship as a backup plan now. I might, you know, look at where I can move to get citizenship now. We mentioned Ecuador or something. It's different. And then I would get the one through my family tree because if I'm Italian, I can live anywhere in Europe.

1:10:13And so now I've got like 30 different countries, whether it's taxes, freedom, whatever I'm looking for. That's a lot of options, almost like 30 different states I can move to. People poo poo Turkey. I'm not saying turkeys for everybody. But the fact that I can buy property, if I buy it correctly, I won't lose money. I can sell it in three years and I get a citizenship to keep for life from a country that look at what they've done in the war. They're playing it neutral. They have the economic heft to do that. It's a growing country. It's a little bit off the radar. But maybe off the radar is what you want sometimes.

1:10:46In the same way that I wouldn't mind being Ecuadorian. I wouldn't mind being Nicaragua. And everybody kind of complains, oh, Nicaragua. I had a guy from Nicaragua come to a party and say, I have the worst passport. I said, no, you have one of the best passports, but why was he the worst in his mind? He can't go to the US. That's his only metric for whether the passport's good or not. He needs a visa and they don't like Nicaragua that much. He can go to the UK. He can go to Europe. He can get a residence permit anywhere he wants. But he can't visit the US without a visa. Well, if you're already American or if you're already European, you can go to the US without a visa.

1:11:19You want something a little different in the mix. If you can get the kind of similar European passport as an American through your family tree, just take it. It's practically free. But for what I would intentionally create, I want a place that leaves me alone. I want something different. I've never considered leaving the US even though I probably in the last five years have spent no more than three or four months per year in the US. And just hearing you talk makes me wonder what would that look like? To give up citizenship. I never, again, never considered it before, but I'm interested. Well, to give up your citizenship, I mean, it's obviously a big move.

1:12:02And I think that, you know, we had people who was only a financial thing. There's clients, a lot of these cryptocurrency people. Because the US is really the only country. There's a few that kind of sort of do it. But the US is the only country that really full -scale taxes you no matter where you live. Just because you're a citizen. Every other country, hey, I'm Canadian, I'm not going to live here anymore. And it's harder than people think. But you can come back for two or three months a year. And you can say, I'm Canadian passport holder, Canadian citizen. But I live somewhere else, stop taxing me.

1:12:32The US you can't. Now, there's the foreign or income exclusion. There's various, you can have a foreign corporate. There's things you can do. You can get it down to some percentage. You can potentially get it down to zero for some people. Others might get it down to 10 % ish. So you're still dramatically saving taxes. But we've had people, now, if you're doing investing, you can't save those taxes. Only active income really can be protected from US tax. So some people say that's unfair. I don't want to pay. And they make a financial decision. I think it's always much more complicated than that.

1:13:05I've had people who make millions. And they just want to come back and visit their grandmother. And they wouldn't give it up because they're afraid they can't come back. Our experience has been, if you give it up, and you have a good passport, let's say you get one of those ancestry passports. People have come back on those through the Visa Wafer Program. Now you're limited in the US, the same way you were limited. You're talking about going to Italy. You can't live there. But if you did not have one of the 42 or so passports, you would have to get a visa like anybody else. And so, I mean, I would imagine if you're allowed by as I am, and you talk about how the US is going in the wrong direction, a lot of people in the consular office probably take that a little personally.

1:13:49And some of these guys and some of these countries get paid bonuses to reject a certain number of people. I'm sure in Nicaragua, it's like, hey listen, if you reject 50 % of people or more, we give you a cash bonus because they have an overstay problem. Don't you think that if you're working towards a quota, the evil nasty trader would be an easy guy to reject. And yet, maybe if you're Rick Rubin, maybe it's like, hey we get it. We've had people who've given up citizenship to get another one where they can't have dual. All right, we get it. But you're just, if you don't have one of those 42 or so great passports where you can generally just come back in, by the way, even then, criminal record, drug use, if you've been to Iran or Somalia, you're still going to be out.

1:14:31So, I just, you really have to decide, can I live without the US? And if you can, then you're off the hook for taxes, you're off the hook for everything else. They don't bother you. There's no filings. There's no regulations. Tell me about your book. I wrote the book, No, My Acropolis. I've always wanted to write a book since I was six years old. And I thought sharing some of the stories would be a good idea. One of the things that the people who don't like the book or critical of is there's not a lot of actionable stuff. The actionable stuff in my world changes by the week. We're not just like, hey, move to Dubai.

1:15:08We'll set up your company, get your residence permit. I mean, we're dealing, I think we put together a list. We've helped clients with like 82 different countries, something like that. 31 tax -friendly countries move to. I mean, this stuff changes by that week. If you put together a how -to guy to be out of date, but it's a largely collection of stories that help you realize the kind of stuff we're talking about. Hey, here's how this works. Hey, if you've considered this. And so, there's the good. Oh, my goodness. I never thought that was possible. People don't realize my grandfather was Italian.

1:15:36I could get Italian citizenship, and I can live anywhere in Europe or not. It's an option. And there's also the bad. Yeah, you can't just walk into a bag and Singapore with 50 bucks and say, give me an account. And so, I think it hopefully gives people a guideline for starting this. What's possible and what's not by telling stories of my experiences around the world. So, it's designed to be inspirational. And it kind of aggregates some of that content into one place. Can you give examples of some of the changes in, let's say, the last 10 years. Something that you may have recommended 10 years ago that is impossible anymore.

1:16:11My understanding of that would be, for example, I have a bank account in Singapore. You cannot get a bank account there, and they don't want to upgrade me, because they look at me as like, eh, you don't live here. I wouldn't really like you. But they don't close my bank account that I have now. So, if I want the super fancy bank account, I'm not going to get upgraded to that. So, it's grandfathered in. Yes, that's what I have the term I've used. Yes, I am grandfathered in. Now, there's other banks in Singapore where they're like, oh, yeah, please come in. We'd love to have you as our private banking client.

1:16:37And so, you know, there are other options. But I think banks have become increasingly difficult. The level of scrutiny to open these accounts has become even more difficult. The biggest thing I've seen is the close -in residents in citizenship programs. To me, if I want the ultimate protection, I'd like to have citizenship or secondarily residents in different countries where I can go. Look at during the pandemic, right? Am I welcome or am I not welcome? If I'm a citizen, I'm welcome. In some cases, if I'm a resident like in Colombia, I was able to fly above all the restrictions because I was a permanent resident.

1:17:10It's a tourist you couldn't come. And once you were in the country, when I was there, it was pretty good. But I had that higher status. Most of those programs, I mean, a lot of those programs have gone away. We just saw the recent closure of the Portugal Golden Visa. That was a program where if you're in, you can get European citizenship in about five years. Now the wait times are a little bit ridiculous. But once you're approved, it's five years. You'll learn a little Portuguese, very basic. And you get citizenship by spending a week a year there. So that was, if you don't have the family tree, that's a way to get into Europe and have that access to be able to travel as good as an American does, to be able to live all over Europe, and now it's gone.

1:17:48So all the good programs keep getting killed. And who killed with a new program this year? Namibia. Most Americans are not going to want to go to Namibia. So, I mean, eventually Ireland also closed their Golden Visa. They've got other ways. Now these countries have other ways you can move there. But the idea of you don't have to commit to us, that's going out the window over the last 10 years. You can move to Portugal now on a self -sufficient visa, but you've got to live there six, seven, eight months. So if you're just looking for an option, that ain't working for you anymore. Right? And so the country that allows the options is not going to give you that top tier EU passport in five years.

1:18:27So I just think it's like countries are just saying, we're worth it. And you may not think as an American that this is, that why did they keep raising the price? Because everybody outside of the West wants a backup plan, and increasingly they can afford it. The market, I was the only guy until the pandemic talking about Americans getting second passports. People thought I was a loon. Now it's becoming the biggest growth market of the world because Americans are realizing, oh my god, during the pandemic, we were stuck. Our passport was as good as an African passport. So now it's a growth market.

1:18:57But the market for years has been the 90 % of people who are not Western and they are driving up the price. So you're just seeing fewer and fewer places that you can go. But once you're in, if you have a Portugal golden visa now, you will still be able to follow that path. So I think it's an issue of people thinking, oh, there's always going to be, it's a very American thought. There's always going to be an option available. And there will. But last year was Portugal and this year it's Namibia. What did it just be easy just to do it when you have the option you want? And for the people who got the Portugal passport when they could, they have a Portugal passport forever.

1:19:34It's not revoked because the program went on. So they got Portugal residents and they're working towards a passport and they're grandfathering everybody who was into that residence into the rules, right? So there's a golden visa, there's a residence where you're working towards it. And what was cool about Portugal is you don't have to be there very much to do that working towards, right? If you want to be a US citizen, you got to live there practically full time for five or six years and pay taxes and everything else. These other countries are saying, don't pay us tax. Don't come that often. Just poke your head in once in a while.

1:20:01And we'll put you on the same track to citizenship because you made an investment. That's what's increasingly going away. But yeah, unless you've committed fraud, unless you say, if I apply for Caribbean citizenship, I'm saying Lucian, if I lied, same as in any country they can take it away. But as long as you didn't lie, it's yours for life. And not only that, if you're Portuguese citizen, now your children can become, they can pass it down, they can, you're making a decision of all last generations. To go to your point of education, by the way, to go to your point of education, if you're an EU citizen, you're going to have special privileges to send your kids, talk about how to save hundreds of thousands of dollars versus sending your kids to university in the US.

1:20:44Tell me about banking in different parts of the world. If you're an American citizen, is there a benefit in having a banking relationship outside of the US? For sure. I don't want to keep all my eggs in one basket. And so if you're an American, you do need to file some forms. If you work with the tax people that we work with, who know international stuff, it's very easy and very, very inexpensive. My tax bill actually went down for tax prep when I left the US. So it doesn't have to be expensive. But most domestic accounts will not know how to handle those forms. So you'll get in trouble. But it's not that hard.

1:21:17That's the legal caveat. There's never been a bank failure that I'm aware of in Singapore. The last one in Austria was like in 1931. You see, I mean, you saw three high profile bank failures in the US just this year. And what was it? It was the FDIC. You know, should we pay everybody? Should we not? How do I feel today? You know, what is my mood today? Should we pay the people or not? That scares me. If you look at the safest banks in the world, there are none in the top 50 there in the US. And so I just say to myself, I can earn higher interest rates in many cases overseas. I can be in other currencies, is a hedge.

1:21:52I can be in safer banks. Now, Canadian and Australian banks are safer. There are some of those in the top 50. So there's less evidence in participier there. But look at what happened in Canada last year. You gave money to something that we don't like. We're going to freeze your account. Again, somehow, if they did that in Russia, people will be up in arms. If they do it in Canada, yeah, whatever. Who knows what could happen? I woke up one day many, many, many years ago. California took a bunch of money out of my account. You didn't pay your taxes for the year that you were living here. I had a canceled check that I did pay my taxes.

1:22:27But that was not of interest to them. I had to spend weeks and months fighting them. And what if I needed that money to pay something? Would it have been nice to have some money that they had to go through a little bit more due process than just waking up and pushing a button to freeze? And so that happens to people who do things legally all the time. You've seen the stories, the woman sells burritos and the bank flags here for depositing too much cash. And she's got to spend her entire life savings. Okay, those are isolated examples. But do I trust one country with the entirety of my life savings?

1:22:58I don't know why anyone would. And you would say the best time to start this would be now. There'd be no reason to project, oh, someday, I'll grow into being able to do this. Then I'll start thinking about having a second residency. If you say, hey, listen, I'm just going to go down with the ship. No matter what happens, I guess you don't need to do it. But I'll tell you, we saw this during the pandemic. We had people who were watching us for years. And they said, okay, this is kind of fun. My friend calls it, he's like, your business is kind of like a romance novel for men. I want people to watch it.

1:23:28And they're just like, oh, that sounds exciting. But they're not going to do it. And suddenly people started doing it. Oh, my God, I'm stuck. I can't travel. I don't have any freedom anymore. And they were calling. Now, the citizenship by investment countries where you make a donation, they give you a passport, they actually sped up because they wanted to be able to get more money. Some of the digitized things they improved, that's an argument in my side for having smaller countries that realized where their bread is buttered. But those people, I mean, it was still taking a little bit longer. And some of them, they had some adverse consequences.

1:24:06It could have been, they couldn't go where they wanted to go to get out. They missed business meetings because they couldn't travel. Some of them, you know, I mean, the US, we was not allowing people to renounce. I think there were six embassies at one point that were open for you to renounce. And so people who were making a lot of money, we had people who started making money during the pandemic. They became genius traders or crypto investors. They started a Shopify business. And suddenly, they're bumping up against that $2 million that you, if you have less than, you can renounce and your life is easy.

1:24:34And if you're more than, your life is hard. And they couldn't figure it out. And they couldn't get the passport in time. And so I just, I never knew what would happen. But I just said it's a good idea to be diversified. And I've seen how I've saved money and saved hassle by having passports, residents, bank accounts ahead of time. It's always paid off for me. So I think if you believe in doing it, you got to do it now because the options are, the good options are going to shrink. Number one, don't be so dogmatic against Turkey or maybe you're whatever else. But realize the options that you're going to be most comfortable doing are the ones that everyone wants and they're eventually going to go away.

1:25:11Whether it's because of pressure from the EU, whether it's because just the country is rich enough. I mean, Ireland has a $2 billion Euro surplus. I know that no one in the US knows what that means, right? They mean they took in more money than they spent. They don't need any more money. Right? They need workers. If you want to work and you're going to have a good paying job, they want you to come and work. And that could include you start your own company and work and hire a few Irish people. Fine, we're all for that. We need jobs. We need more workers. But we don't need more money. So why would we have a program that it can last a little invest and come and live here and work towards the passport?

1:25:45We don't need it. The idea of talents an interesting one. If you remember when Amazon decided they were going to open a second home base and they had a contest, why doesn't that happen with people as well? Why aren't people enticed to come to places based on talent in different parts of the world? I think there are some that do do that. I mean, there was kind of a mini explosion on the island of Sark. Not so far from here. One of the British crown dependencies, I think it is. No taxes of any kind. No rules. I just, you know, everyone come to Sark and it's just tiny little island. But they were, you know, doing stuff like that during the pandemic, you know, come to Sark.

1:26:29You know, Chile, for example, had startup Chile for many years. We'll just give you money. Come and start your startup here. Here's some cat. We don't want to take our cash. So there are examples of that. I think that again, I, and you and I kind of come from an American background. And I think what we see is people really give a pass to where they're from. And they poo poo everything else. I mean, you know, we have people who watch our stuff. And I'll say, oh, yeah, come to our event in Mexico last two years or come in Malaysia. And just, you know, the comments we get from people, they would think that like, the population of Mexico is zero because everyone's been killed.

1:27:08It's just, it's just shocking the dog when people have. And I think that's why you don't see it covered. But there are come, there are countries that are doing that kind of stuff. Why don't people demand countries compete? People need to say, my country's the best. Almost is why they need their sports team to win. I mean, I come from Cleveland. The Cleveland Browns, one zero, one season. I don't know how you support a team that wins zero. I don't want to be, what? Because I'm born because like my mother was hanging out in this area of the country. And like, we just started like, now I've got to support this terrible sports team.

1:27:43But people do, like they, it's part of their identity, I guess. I don't get it. But yes, I mean, people should say, hey, what's the best place to start a business? And it's probably, it's not just low taxes because some of these places in the Gulf that have very low taxes, you can't get a bloaty notary to show up for three months. So that's not the answer. But to me, breaking things down into parts is the answer. Where's the best place to bank? That's probably not the best place to live. If I'm living in Italy, I don't want to be banking in Italy other than for day -to -day transactions. But Italy has a lump sum tax regime where they can just, they say, okay, pass our little chunk every year and will leave you alone, do whatever else you want offshore.

1:28:21And so I'm going to bank in Singapore or I'm going to bank in Switzerland next door. Or people don't break it down into constituent parts, first of all. And then they get into the dog, we could go on about this all day. But I think that's the reason. Tell me about the strengths and weaknesses of America today from your perspective. I think the dog was a big weakness. I'm a big believer in self -awareness. If you take two employees and one is from a part of Eastern Europe where their only goal is defending themselves and it's a winner lose, I'll take the person with more nuance over that. Who can say, hey, now what I get, I made a mistake and I'm learning from it.

1:28:57I don't think a country with 300 million people does a lot of self -awareness, especially in its position. And thinking will always be the best because if you're a limited version of history it's not a very good way to be successful. Shaking things up and attracting things is a good way to be successful. So that's the thing that's a serious weakness. I think that people in much of the West have been kind of spoiled. I don't think it's what builds successful societies. And for the first time ever you have competition. Steve Bannon was the Trump advisor who said, we hollowed out the middle class in the United States to build one in Asia.

1:29:30As if Asia does not deserve to have a middle class, go and eat your rice and accept your $1 a day. That's the way that people think it should be. I mean let's be honest, that's a weak people. When the Iraq war happened, everyone's like, oh this is terrible. And I said, yeah, if gas becomes $6 a gallon, they'll say, hey, what other countries can we invade? Because I need cheaper gas. Nobody cares. And so I just think that this kind of detachment from reality that other countries aren't going to become more successful. I mean, we had 50 -some percent extreme poverty in 1960. It went down to 8 percent before the pandemic.

1:30:07Other people are getting wealthy. There are going to be other places to go. And so a guy like me, I have two American employees and they don't live in the US. I've gone where I'm treated best and I've found the best talent. And oftentimes it's more affordable. And so that means that 60 people who I might have hired in the US in a different life who aren't being hired there, what are the strengths? The US is an entrepreneurial culture. My fear with that, and people say even in Canada, we leave Canada to go to the US because the Canada cuts down the tall trees. You do hear that in some Western cultures.

1:30:41That's why you see entrepreneurs go to the US. My challenge with that is, it's such a small percentage of the population. And the other population is increasingly saying, we don't want to work. I go and LinkedIn. It's like every reason to not work. And that's kind of being accepted. And I don't know how you have 2 % of the population that drives an uncooperative 90 -90 % and you get a lot of stuff done. I just don't know how it works. So there is a sense of entrepreneurship. And maybe there's something I'm missing. But I just don't think that there are leaders in freedom anymore. I think there are leaders in the brand called freedom.

1:31:19Right, and you look at all the politicians. It's such a fungible concept, freedom. We have freedom. What does that mean? Nobody can tell you. And that to me is when you realize, again, if I told an employee to find what you just said, some corporate employee, like tell me what that means. And they can't. That means you don't have it. So I think that these signs that entrepreneurial spirit, which will increasingly be at odds with people who don't want to work. And I don't know what else there is. Other than your own personal issues. Yeah. I just like it here. Okay. Would you like it somewhere else?

1:31:55I've got to check it out. There was something you said earlier about living in a place where the people are happy. That sounds like a really nice, nice choice. Yeah. I mean, I've always been go -go -go. I didn't optimize much of my life for happiness. But a number of years ago, my wife said to me, we would go to all these different places to say, well, these people here are really kind. And I realized that's a value. Not even niceness. I mean, niceness is almost kind of fake polite, whatever. Kindness. That is important. And I'll take it one step further. In Georgia, some of the most loyal friends you'll ever have.

1:32:32I think in any kind of place like that, where it's a little bit more laid back and more family oriented and smaller. And like everybody knows each other to a certain extent. I mean, I could tell you, first of all, everyone I know has left something in a taxi in Georgia and the guy comes and finds them and brings it back. $5 ,000 camera. Hey, you forgot this. I had things where like I needed help right away. Somebody came in the US. They wouldn't do that. You know, we're busy. So you start to realize I'm a big believer in work and building things that you're passionate about. But it's also nice to say, hey, when your friends need help, you'd be there.

1:33:10You'd set that aside. And I don't think people in the US would have. So I think kindness is key. And I think loyalty is key. And I think there's probably a lot of that lacking in the US. And probably most other Western countries these days. Beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing this information. I think it's really helpful. Most of the people who grew up, where I grew up, still live in the same town that I grew up in. Most of them. The idea that there's much more available to us if we're willing to experiment and look and see what's there. I feel like your work really inspires that curiosity.

1:33:47Well, I appreciate that. There's a lot of opportunities. And I think that it's definitely worth people reviewing all the options, considering how many more options there are now than there were 25 years ago. The world has changed remarkably. And I think we have to kind of update our own operating systems to reflect that. Great. Thank you so much. My pleasure.

1:34:38Thank you.