Ari Emanuel

26:16I said, I'm definitely getting fired. He goes, what do you do wrong? I said, no, no, I didn't do anything wrong. There's a strike. They're going to have to say some costs. I'm the new guy. Yeah. I'm dead. Yeah. They didn't fire me. Nine months didn't fire me. And I then staffing season happened. I went buck wild on staffing season. It's fast. Staff everybody. Yeah. And then they moved to rodeo drive in the old Drexel building, offices. They had started to grow. Then they sold the talent department with Patrick and David Schiff, and Judy Huffman went to UTA. What? Power Benedict and leading artist Merchand called UTA.

26:56They went there. This is how the company kept raw. And the lit department with Bill Block went to ICM. Why would it get split? I don't remember. I was a pimple on the ass of an ant at the time. And so we were there. And why did they decide to sell? You know, I think Bill Block realized looking back at it kind of remembering the whispers, the chemistry wasn't right. I see. Right. No disrespect to Judy. Judy wanted a certain talent, a client that wasn't commercial. Not in a bad way, great actors. Yeah. And there was just, there wasn't the confrontation that needs to happen when you're in a partnership.

27:30Like, no, we're not doing it. There were different visions. There's commerce also. Unresolved. Different visions. So that happened. What was that? Car accident happens. Ari Lee starts his firm. Yeah. Tell me the story of Endeavor. So, top -circular David Greenblatt, Rick and I, car accident, we're talking and like, we can't do this. We can't do it. I'm like, we can't work for them anymore. Greenblatt was always a rebel. He, the guy's got unbelievable guts. And so, we convinced Rick Rosen. We made a fake budget of how much we were going to make that year. The complete fraud. Like, here's what this one's going to go.

28:08Rick still had people in school. He had a pay for school. And we didn't take salaries for two years, right? Is there any budget that's not a fake budget? No, no, they're all. It's all, yes. It's made up. It's all, it's out. But for sure, at the beginning of a company, you think, here's what this one's going to be. It's always so odd to me that people write something up. So everyone acts like it happened. Tows trucker and I made one up. Yeah. And with Joel Mandel, our business manager at the time. And we got a loan from Russell Goldsmith. Joel secured that for unscured because we didn't have any.

28:45Yeah, it was not the secure. For a million dollars to start doing stuff. We were at the head. What would you spend money on? Well, you had to get copy machines. Yeah. You had to pay infrastructure. Yeah, all the phones. All the. Yes, yes, yes. We then bought furniture from flea markets. Of course. And then we just started. And I think you had a lot of. And did you have to bring clients with you? We had nobody. Yeah, well, clients. Yeah, Eric Golan, Amy Lippman, Greg Daniels. We sang, I think our first client before Marty came over. Our first client was Bob Singer, Big Hot, writer at the time. It was one of the great guys.

29:22We got lucky. We got King and Hill on the air, which was a package. Great show. Right. The best. Great show. And people were great to us. Like, Brandon Tartekov talking about characters. One of the great guys. We start the company. He takes us to the English. We're going to breakfast right away. Meet me at the time. Remember the breakfast area at the four seasons. What's the place to be? Boom. And there was bad people too. I mean, he, there was people that like stretched and said, we believe, I mean, the guys that I see him, that they took the press that we left and blew it up. We were, four schmocks.

29:58Yeah. Right. And they made us this huge thing that we, right? And it was, I mean, I have the clinics all over the place. That we were nothing. Yeah. Nothing. Yeah. They sued us for nine months. Wow. Breach. We settled. Yeah. We got 90 cents on the dollar. Yeah. Made our career.

30:19Was there any mission statement or organizing principle beyond? We don't want to have a boss. Yeah. That was that, that was it. That was it. And distribution is going to expand. We're going to get to, we're going to, there's going to be more product needed. You saw the opportunity. Yeah. That was it. Nothing. That wasn't a big deal. But no, no, no. Yeah. I mean, we have a new one now. Yeah. Yeah. And then tell me about the history of the William Mars company. What is William Mars in the entertainment business? Well, it's over 120 years old, you know, like MCA was the company. When we took it out, they still, when we, their original offices, they gave gas to employees.

31:07They had drivers. I mean, it was insane. Like, right? They started the packaging business. It was the founding agency. Not that they're one in the business. And it lasted over 120 years. And it just went, kept on going. I don't remember all the leaders of the place. No. Right? Like, you remember, I mean, if you're a student of the game, you remember Lou. Yeah. And Jules Stein. Yeah. But when we looked at it, going back to when we kind of, we were going through this, we did something at Harvard kind of analyzing the business. How do we can make it a two horse race at the time? It was C .A. was Mike and Ronnie and Bill left that brand, which was the best brand and gave it to these guys.

31:51I mean, again, you realize just in life, what they created, it just keeps on going. They did the nine out of it. Mike went to Disney. Is that why you left? That's why Mike, Ronnie left first. Yeah. He went to Universal. Right. Right. And he ran Universal ever since. Ever since. And then Mike then had to leave because Ronnie left before, like that, that was a whole thing. Then Mike went, when Michael Eisner had the heart attack, I think. Yeah. He went there and then Bill just left. He did the theater business and etc. And between, I mean, it was Jack Rappd and Rick Nassita and the guys that are now running it.

32:33And that brand, that business, I think, Taco Connard was in that group. They've run it for 26, 27 years. And that place has been around for 60. It's very hard to put an agency out of business. William Morris was the grand daddy of the whole thing. Yeah. You'll hear interviews with actors in the 1930s talking about, you know, called William Morris. And in the 1950s. And it was the brand. It was the brand. It was almost shorthand for Agent, you know, like. And I think, you know, the things. Like, they went, we got lucky because it had taken a downturn. Yeah. Right. They had a great agency there.

33:15They had a book business that was great. They had a music business that we had. They had a non -scripted business. They had a great motion picture and television. It just wasn't managed. Did it get too big for what it was? Sometimes old businesses. I don't want to talk ill of people that ran at the time that we came in and emerged with it. But these things, you have to manage them, right? You have to make sure everybody's working together. You have to, you can't be afraid to fire somebody. God forbid you have to. And you have to manage the process. And if you're not willing to manage the process.

33:48And you don't have big enough clients like, oh, you can't threaten me. I can step into that situation. Like, no problem. That was one of the problems I faced with IMG, which is different. I can handle a non -scripted. 99 % of the jobs I can do. I have done. So you're not going to threaten me like, oh, okay. Like yourself, except for the first year that we merged, that's a different conversation. It goes, oh, wait, the world was changing. Tell me about the idea of the merger. And how did it end up being endeavor? Because you would think in any version of anyone who knows anything about history would say it should be way more.

34:27Of course. So tell me. It is way more than ever. Okay. Okay. The parent company is a guy. The WMV. Okay. So I won't tell you how wide we got there. So Patrick and myself, I don't remember who else was there. We went to Harvard Business School. And we met with the then. You didn't go to Harvard Business School. You went there to meet with the professor. Yes. At the time, that professor became the head of Harvard Business School at the time. Professor Nitten was not. And he gave us the courtesy of walking us through the business plan. And we laid out for two days on a whiteboard. The business, C .A.

35:05is the down -and -player. It was ICM William Morris, UTA and us. And we laid out a plan. We have to go after William Morris. And here's why. They have a music business. They have a theater business. They have a commercial business. They have a book business. They strengthen our movie business. And they strengthen our television business. And then it would be a two horse race. Was there a second option or no? Well, the second option was ICM. And then ICM sold to this guy. My name is Sue Hell -Rizvy. And made the worst deal in the world. They gave him his packages. They could have banked the packages and gotten the money.

35:37Stupid. And UTA was much of the same. Not in a bad way. They just had assets that we had. And we weren't. If you believe that distribution is a commodity, we didn't have other areas where distribution was going to go. The fit wasn't as good. Right. So it took us five, seven years of taking clients, taking agents, attacking. Wow. William Morris. William Morris. Wow. And it fits in starts of happening. There was some really bad meetings that Patrick and I walked out and Patrick would say, well, that's never going to happen. I said, yes, it is. And I was the obnoxious one, of course. Really? Yeah.

36:13I find that hard to believe. And so, um. And then we kind of like wore them down. Took a bunch out. It was not at the top of the place they weren't getting along. And we got to the people that wanted to do it. And then everybody got to the table and took a year. And then at the end, as our friends at Harvard told me, there's no merger. There's somebody wins and somebody loses. Wow. And so here's the battles. Fight for the name, give up the name. But when business affairs, communications, CFO, and so we just followed that game pal and we did it. Amazing. And so we took people off the board that didn't deserve to be able to put people on that then were loyal to us, not to them, from their side.

37:00And it's because they were dysfunctional. Not because we were changing things. No, completely understood. And so then. And also was new blood. Like sometimes a younger upstart brings a different energy to an old organization that ends up being good for every body. And they wanted it. But the craziness it was 08. I mean, people don't remember the world. We were all going over the edge. And 08, like the world was coming to an end financially. People had bought 19 houses. Yeah, yeah. And so they made $20 million less than they thought. We had to give $20 million a bonuses to keep everybody in line because they were guaranteed as our remember.

37:37I might be wrong, but I think so. And we lost. William Morris had a lawsuit on a building that we lost for 35 million. So we were out $75 to $100 million. In 08, we had a beg for a loan to keep to Russell Goldsmith. Yeah. To keep the dream alive. Yeah. Why was making it a two -horse race important? I see them was because they had sold their assets. Nothing. I mean, they were nothing. So it was UTA, small, fresh, compared. And then it would just be us in CA. And then when you're talking about signing clients, we had all the divisions they had. All we had to do is now organize them, make sure they work together.

38:20Realizing the business was turning to television with everything coming. And we thought we could compete at that level. Because we had a better motion picture, writer, director, business, then, actor, business, TV business. You wanted to tussle? Well, tussle. Right? Before we were small, we tussled. Yeah. We were small, and you see, now we have every division. Actually, more divisions than they have in the theater department and the book department. Really big, our commercial department, bigger. Like, okay, you want to play? Let's play. And, you know, yeah. And how long do you take to sort out?

38:54Until about 2011, 2010. My three years, my three years. Two years to organize it. Yeah. Let people go, keep people up. And then two years to kind of get it really going. And then in 2012, Teddy Forstman passes away from IMG, who is a friend of ours. And we had started this company called Rain, which is a merchant bank with Joe Bravich and Jeff Sin. We were raising money. I called, he was on the cover of Forbes. I called Mark Andrewsson, who had just started his VC fund. I said, I want to meet you. You didn't know him? Cold call. Cold call. You have to read the article. I said, I'll fly up. He says, no, I'll fly down.

39:42He flew down. He told me what he was trying to start and why Ovis was advising him at the time. Right? And he had a vision of that. We talked about my business. And I said, listen, I got this merchant bank. I want you to put in some money. So he put in money, him, he got in Durban from Silver Lake, their friends, and Necache. Who was that Google at the time? They had a separate little thing. And did he call him because you saw the... Similarities. And the synergy in... I read articles now and I call people if I find them or it interested. But is money money? Do you take money from anyone? No, I just thought he was interesting.

40:19I just thought he was... he saw an industry. He went against trend. And he was trying to build something against trend that it's an establishment. I said, I want to know that through. I then met Egon Durban from Silver Lake at that point. And he and I started talking. He had bought Skype. He and I would have lunches every once in a while. And he buys Skype and he calls me up and he says, hey, I think this should be some content animation on Skype. Like, he sees what I see. At least that's what I thought. Yeah. Didn't happen. I wanted to put... we hadn't raised the money yet enough money. I wanted to put rain into Skype.

40:53And he was the younger guy at Silver Lake at the time. He then sells Skype his first big deal to Microsoft. Thinking about it, Skype could have been WhatsApp. Yeah. Like in two seconds. That was a, you know, thinking back. Yeah. Microsoft could have made it WhatsApp. Yeah. Right? Blue it. Yeah. And then he calls me when Teddy Forrestman dies and says, can I come down? I'll see you. And I'm trying to raise money in my head. I'm flying all over. I went to Brazil to see Ike Batista, Martin Serell at WPB at the time. I'm trying to put the money together because I want to go after that. Because I want to have sports now in the business.

41:32Would that have been the first big acquisition? Yeah. Okay. Because that was a really more thing only cost me to let people go $40 million. It was nothing. That would have been at the time. A big deal. Yeah, a lot of money. Yeah. And so I was raising... Tell me about that business before you got involved. Tell me about the IMG business. Well, IMG had events. Yeah. They represented about 150 sports from snooker to darts to tennis. Who was their competition? Nobody. They were just the... It was actually gone a little bit. But... They were the big sports player. They were. That business had been around for 60 years when he'd passed away.

42:16Did you always think sports would be a good piece? Yeah. Because it was... Since when? I thought about this for a long time, this concept that got built. A long time starting when? You know, when I started in 93, 94, when I looked at maybe a little earlier that here's where the world is, I thought about how you can discover stuff. You got to have marketing in there. I didn't realize what social was going to do, but social is that marketing arm. 30 years, 35 years. Yeah. So I'm out raising money and EGON calls me up and he says, listen, I want to come down and see you. I got an idea. So we go have lunch at the grill.

42:53And he says, I want to invest in you and I want to go after IMG. I said, listen, dude. I've been talking a lot of pee from... You're a pee from. You're never doing this. You can't get your own run of agency and money in. He goes, show me your numbers. I come back down at three weeks. Showed him the numbers, came back down with three weeks. I could assign the original agreement, but as you know, I went over with our friends at Harvard, our lawyer. We negotiated, made a deal like three weeks later. It's been the greatest relationship ever. Amazing. He's back to every play. Amazing. Yeah. And he's not one of the promise we made him was most people come to Hollywood and they're private planes.

43:43They leave on American Airlines. Yeah. We promised him we were never going to lose him money. Have not. Yeah. And it's just been incredible. And then we were in the bidding for IMG. I moved to Europe for four or five months in the summer. Every three weeks come back for a weekend with kids in the summer. Met everybody. It was the representation business, the production business, the events that they did. And just started building the business. And then that then started fitting in and they had a licensing business. There are a lot of pieces. And at the time when he saw the studios, I probably music too, television company were abdicating a lot of their responsibility.

44:25And we then started building things that we could do internally when you had a book division. And then we realized, you know, we do all these things for people. And we see businesses that like, if we own, we would do this and that. So we should, half the business should be things we represent. But if we owned it, here's where we could take it. So then half the business was that and then we went after things we could own. When did that start, the idea of ownership? That's a big change. Yeah, that was Brent Richards. I remember he presented at Wimbledon 2014. I think it was. Don't you recently? Yeah.

45:07I mean, 10 years. Yeah. And so the first one we went after to own, we owned some events. And then we bought some events. And then the big one we bought, we made a leap. We bought Droga 5, the advertising agency. But then the biggest thing we really bought, we bought bull riding. We turned that thing around. And it's going great now. How popular is it? I don't know anything about it. It's popular. That's right. Is it popular just here or is it popular in other places? Brazil, Latin America, China, Australia. There's pockets. And is it local or? All over. It goes to Madden Square Garden, comes out here, goes to the south.

45:52But the same guys who are popular are popular in all places. Yeah, actually the biggest players in bull riding, not that the riders are not popular. Yeah. The bulls. Really? Yeah. Because they're like the wildest bull riding the wild bull. They're the stars. Yeah, that's interesting. Turn that around. And then kind of, you know, cut our teeth on that about opening something and how you sponsorship teams. And all that crap and built a sponsorship group. It took a lot of time. While managing these people that, like I said before, I could step into a book business or you know, scripted. Not be perfect in all of them, but I could handle them.

46:32Yeah. I don't know anybody in Italian's dog or a friend. I don't know. I mean, they had me over at Barrel. Yeah. Until I kind of learned that business. Yeah.

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48:21Is there an advantage in the synergy like when you got sports? Well then you realize you're going into ESPN and Disney and you're selling them X -TV Show, X Movie, and you want English Premier League or XYZ. That was the advantage. You have a lot of fingers in it. And then when you own something, you see what they're spending on across it and then you're like, so then we did that and then UFC came up. And I had represented them for a long time. What's good about it is by representing them you get to really learn the business. Yes, I learn the business. I saw the business and realized the business and they had created an incredible thing and Dana was growing and it was great.

49:05And so the guys wanted to sell. Runs in Frank, Fatita. I talked to Silver Lake and I said we have to own a sport. Multiple in sports are going to go up. Back then nobody thought like, what? And so what made you think it was going to go up? Again, when you looked at the ratings and television, sports were up there. So you knew and then S -Files were coming, meaning the Netflix of the world, that was growing. So it was inevitable. And you had the rumors of other people getting into the space, more distribution, price elevation. I had a long history with Dana. At the time it was a crazy multiple, crazy.

49:55It was like 22 times. But we had a thesis that Fox couldn't give it up because they had all for their station group. They had all of our library. They needed because of broadcasting and the ratings he was getting. And cut to Fox, raise their hand, we're selling. They can't bid. He has been camping. AT &T wanted it also for TNT, like John's think he wanted it bad. And Trump stopped that transaction from happening. So that was off the table. NBC didn't want it and Paramount didn't want it. Even though we started Paramount. He got to see Starlight Spike. So he was shit out of luck for like nine, ten months.

50:41Wow. I mean it was bad. Yeah. And you had you had you already paid 22 times? Oh, we paid 4 .2 billion. Yeah. So I put all the chips in the table. Right. And clients were in it. Yeah. And we had nothing. And we were like, I think it was like three or four months left on our deal with Fox. And we had nothing. Yeah. Then the ice broke with the ESPN. They wanted to go to direct to consumer. And Dana says this all the time. The guy running ESPN was just shining me out all these years about making a deal with the OCE. He never wanted it. Thought it was like a bad sport. Yeah. But he gets that. Yeah.

51:18He gets kicked out for drug related issues and other things. Iger saw it because he came out of boxing. Yeah. He realized it. Yeah. Like right away Bob realized it. And Kevin may realize it for direct to consumer. Our guys buy paper views. Yeah. It's going to be good for us. We make the deal and it's a funny thing. It's a long story. But we were in Paramount. I was trying to convince them to make spike back to the sports channel. Yeah. And I get a texture of what's that from Kevin mayor. And I think, yeah, Kevin mayor, we have a deal. And this is after many backs of. Wow. I go, I slide my phone over to Shapiro.

52:00And I end the meeting. I said, we got to get out of here. Mark, we got a meeting. We get in the car. To the guitar who's unbelievable. Bob Iger and Kevin mayor are in the plane flying to New York. And we're making a deal over what's that amazing. And Bob to his credit. Dana need wanted instead of eight episodes, ten episodes of Fight Night on ESPN. Because that's how you make stars. You know, still broadcasting is important. The wrong game is eight. And God bless Bob Iger. He goes, give him the two. Great. We got a deal. And then our first night fight was in Brooklyn. Blue the doors off. And they were unbelievable partners in promotion.

52:43Incredible. And then they bought the fight. Then they bought the pay per views. And so there was hypothetical question. Yeah. Now going forward. Yeah. Is there a time when it makes sense for UFC to have their own network instead of being on? Now, you know, I would say I thought about this like, is there going to be a period of time when direct consumer, you know, they are the most incredible. Because you still, even though we all poo poo linear. Yeah. NFL's on linear. Yeah. The NBA deal is going to be linear. Yeah. And portion directing consumer. Yeah. Hockey is going to be linear. How did the last deal work with peacock?

53:24Was that good for peacock? No, great. There was the WWE network. No, they have that. I call those the PLEs. Okay. They have that, premier live events. Yeah. I think it's at like four or five million subs to peacock. That's a huge number. I think it's going to run the math on it. Yeah. And it performs. Yeah. So, but we're going to see like we have, we moved from Fox to NBC. NBC. SmackDown was that Fox? Right. We took that and we moved that to NBC. NBC Broadcast NBC? No, I want to say NBC, USA Network. USA Network. Right. And there's shows specials that will happen on the network on NBC. I see. In that deal, which are incredible.

54:09I see. Breaking stars. Yeah. We took the CW NXT that we were getting nothing for. Yeah. So that for a great number. Yeah. And NXT has grown into a serious third brand. Including WWE. It's amazing. That is compared to a Dana created when he created the contender series. Yeah. And then we had Raw. Everybody killed us because we didn't make a deal for Raw. We had Raw. The stock market. And Mark and I had an idea. And Nick Conn. At a breakfast I started with Bella this concept. Before I make the NXT deal, I thought I could get her into NXT. And then once she realized this is where she was incredible.

54:51She realizes, wait a second. This audience moves. Wherever it goes, it moves. Yep. This audience moves. Like you go to spike everybody moves. Yep. You go back everybody moves. Right? You go to Fox, everybody moves. Dedicated fan base. It's incredible. Yep. And gross. Yeah. Every year. Yep. And so she realized, wait a second, the overlap, we could gain a ton of subs here. And it's a lot of programming. And it's global. A global fan base. And so she got it. Like once we showed her the numbers. Number one for 24 years in a row. She saw it. So she got it. Ted got it right away. And made the deal for raw.

55:36So raw will start on Netflix in January? Yeah. It's a big deal. Huge. It's a big deal. And so nobody saw that coming. And now we have the PLEs, which everybody wants because it, how many subs did it have? And so we feel good. It's incredible. And you know, it's all going. What was the thinking in putting UFC and WWE together and spinning it off as TKO? Well, we, you know, I was getting frustrated. We weren't getting any value. I said, if we could have a pure play, we should trade it more and move that over. Or bigger than them financially. So we would get majority. We can consolidate it back in.

56:18And made it pure play. When does it make sense for a business to be public? And when does it make sense for a business to be private? You know, here's what I have learned and took me three years to learn this. Yeah. I don't think this is not a fault of anybody. When it's a clean conversation and the story's simple. Yeah. I think people get it. Back maybe 70s, 80s conglomerates people got. And that was the story they believed in. And the GE's of the world, all those guys they believed that. And they could sell that story. A simple story I think people get. At least that's what I understand. And yeah, I mean, I think that's why that thing should be public.

56:57And this other thing shouldn't be public. Never. Is it change anything in the day -to -day running in the company or nothing? Same thing. I've been doing the same thing. Yeah. Whether it was inside or whether it's outside. You know, we got, we have incredible executives across the team. Everybody plays fairly and well in the sandbox. Or they have to deal with me and other people. In some ways in the agent business, you're always accountable to someone already. Do you know what I'm saying? It's the nature of the business. That's one of the great things about being an agent. It actually teaches you an incredible skill set for investors.

57:35Dealing with people. Dealing with people. All that stuff. It's incredible. It's actually incredible. So that's been the great, you know, that, over the 29 years, 30 years of doing it. That skill set, if you can deal with agents, if you can deal with actors and writers, directors, you can then deal with investors and public markets. It's just part of the process. Do you work with some of the greatest creators on the planet? I think so. You do. What do creators understand that traditional business people don't? The great thing about great creators, they believe in their vision and they will do anything to follow that thing to the end.

58:18Like they'll do anything. And great ones listen to people in their own way, not that they'd admit it, make their adjustments to get to where they want to be. Because they have this burning desire to tell that story. Whatever it is, music, theater, they want to do with this. And that ability, because remember, when you're doing that, you got to take a lot of punches. Because there's a lot more knows than yeses. Yes. And so I think they have a lot more endurance because they have this love, passion, vision, and they have to tell this story. And I tried to tell my kids, and I said to my agents, you know, being a CEO is not how many punches you throw, how many gain take.

59:02And that's what creators, right? I mean, I don't know what you feel when you're doing music with people. It's a lot of just what an intensity of listening, writing is rewriting. You got to really grind. You got to grind. And it doesn't just like. It doesn't just happen. It doesn't just happen. Sometimes it just happens. But then you have to make sure that when you're grinding after the special moment, you don't ruin it. It's like it's a very. It's a very delicate. Right? I'm so. They know that. And that they still get into that ring and do it. It's incredible. That's why I love them. As much as it's sometimes frustrating.

59:42Yeah. And I think I frustrate them. You know, Larry David has a vision. And Aaron Sorkin has a vision. Jim Brooks has a vision. I mean, Greg James vision. March goes as a vision. They have Michael Moore vision. Yeah. And they're just, let's get into the ring. Yeah. And that's a hard thing to say. I want to get in a ring and like. Be naked in front of people. This is where I'm going to go do. And people saying no to you. And that's what it is. Yeah. When you have a crazy idea. You're too many. And you're excited about it. How hard would someone have to argue to get you out of the idea? Or is it even possible?

1:00:21Oh, yeah. I know. I get. Here's what I say to. And this is why my partnership with Mark Shapiro is incredible. I have a lot of ideas. And I've learned over time like. 90 % suck. But there's 10 that really are good. And the one thing they know. And is he help at it? Yeah, he helps. He's really good at the edit. Is there any time when he says, don't do it. And you say, have we're doing it? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Like I say something. I know. Is it just that we've got to try this one? Is it just that the vision is clear? No, you want to know something? I'm okay with his arguments. Why shouldn't work? And I'm okay getting into the ring and trying to make it work.

1:01:00Because I think it's more important for the try. Because also, I don't know if you learn this in your life. Success doesn't just go straight up. Yeah. It's squiggly to line down into the left. It's going to be a close to right. It's all. And in that, it's like what I said to you. I started with Joe and Jeff. Rain. I met Mark Andreessen, led me to E. Han Derben. We try to do something that didn't work. The lines of how you got to where you are. There are all. Sometimes it's important to get into the ring and not get it done. But it's going to lead you to three other things that create unbelievable opportunity.

1:01:38Yeah. And so sometimes I sit there and say, and I just do it in my head like, I'm not sure where this is going. Yeah. Something's going to come from it. Something's going to come from it. And the hard thing is when you're dealing on Wall Street. Yeah. Or with PE sometimes. And this is what's great about E. Han. They let you go down that street. Even though, I'm not sure pencils. Yeah. That's rare for a PE firm. Yeah. CEO. Difficult on Wall Street. You know, they expect a certain. They want the straight line. It doesn't work that way. It's impossible to work that way. It's impossible. What are your thoughts on cancel culture and free speech?

1:02:16Cancellular concert free speech. Well, I cannot stand what's happening in these schools. Campus is right now. I don't understand it. I keep, Jezrie said to me, in the Gaza is really situation. There's Goliath and David. In the greater Middle East, Israel is David. Their Goliath. Yeah. I don't think they understand when you say from the river to the sea. They don't even know what the river is. Yeah. Actually, there's a Jordan River. The sea's over here. That means no Jew would be there. That's genocide. Yeah. I don't think they realize that. That's the frustrating thing. Yeah. The lack of information.

1:02:55Just how. And the new form people are. And I'm going to get more likes if I say it this way. Like, that's what you like so much. I don't understand it. I think Bill Maher says it right. He says, you know, they are hurting the Democratic Party. And the Republican Party. Hate woke more than they hate Russia. So they'd rather be with Russia because they hate that more. John Stuart said that one. And he's right. It's so ill -informed. It's shocking to me.

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1:04:48Do you think there's going to be a World War 3 anytime soon? No. Why do you think no? I don't go there. Okay. Because if I go there, I'm not getting out of bed. And I like getting out of bed, and I like working, and I like doing what I'm trying to make the world a better place. When did you get serious about exercise and biohacking? I always worked out. Yeah. I started intermittent fasting, ice -bass, 13, 14 years ago, 15 years ago. Yeah. And then it's just, it's on a steep incline of the craziness. And I always pick up the phone, because my brother's aches the doctor. And I just say to him the following, here's what I want to do.

1:05:26Yeah. Could it hurt me? Yeah. And he says to me, yes or no? Yeah. And if I say yes, I don't do it. If it's a no, I do it. So if you do those things right, you got a better chance of living long. I don't want to, want people to know you want to live forever? No. You want to be healthy. I want to be healthy. Of course. Right. And so, I love my life. Yeah. I have a great life. I worked really hard at my life. And so I just want to enjoy it. For as long as I can, and be around to see what the hell fuck happens. Because it's as interesting the world as it's ever been. Yeah. I think if you ask people 1969, what happened in 1960?

1:06:11There was a big concert. Remember that concert that happened in New York's, right? Yeah. You know what also happened then? What? It had the flu. It was a 1969 bad flu. 120 ,000 people died. Same time as Woodstock. Woodstock. Oh, yeah. I didn't know. Parents sent their kids to Woodstock. Yeah. Right. And yet Nixon. Yet Vietnam War. The world was coming to an end. Yeah. No. You know. We'll figure this one out too. Yeah. I'm going to list a couple of biohacks. You can tell me which ones you've done in the... Okay. Cryotherapy. Oh, yeah. I do a nice bath every morning. Okay. Hyperbaric oxygen. Yeah.

1:06:48Oh, yes. You were at a meditation practice? I meditate every morning in my sauna for 25 minutes. Great. What style of meditation is it? I have a... Oh, I do. A mantra? A mantra. Outlouter internal. Silent. Silent. And then after that, during the day, I do a... There's God Brian McKenzie. I do an incredible breathing. I do about a 15, 20 minute breathing. What time do you go to bed? 10, 10, 30. Wake up about quarter five, five. I'm going to say four qualities. And I want you to prioritize them for me. Enthusiasm. Work ethic. Smarts. Instinct. Can I have one more? Yeah. Endurance. Endurance is the number one thing.

1:07:36Number one. Yeah. Is that part of work ethic? That's different. I don't know. It falls under maybe as A, B, and C. Endurance. Enthusiasm. Work ethic. I think I're in one group. Okay. Right? Smarts. Instinct and smarts. Instincts before. Yeah. Then smarts. I mean, hello.

1:07:59You know, like, I remember having to go to China for lunch. I went to Abu Dhabi, like, to get that relationship way before anybody else. 20 times. Wow. You know. You say, and that's brutal. Yeah. Do you ever feel... Is there anyone that you feel intimidated to talk to? No. Not a person on the planet. No. It was there ever a time that you felt that. No. Not a person on the planet. No. Okay. Do you think pretty much anything can be worked out if people talk about it? Yes. I really do. Me too. I had this conversation with Martin Lau from Tencent, who I went to China for lunch for lunch. And one of the great guys runs Tencent.

1:08:45And I said to my wish, because if it was up to us to do business, we could do business. We do business. And it's a good business. I'm not really sure about the country situation. I don't really understand why that can't be figured out. I'm not a religious person. I believe in how you have to treat people. Yeah. Like that's like religion, like about that stuff. And I just don't understand it. Do you believe in God? No. Do you pray? No. Are you spiritual in any way? No. I mean, I want to treat people right. Of course. But I mean, I don't do my separate thing. That's a separate thing. What are you defining spiritual?

1:09:26Do you feel connected to something greater than yourself? Do I feel connected to something greater than myself? Yeah. I want to believe I do that there's some... Who are you to do or you don't? I'm not sure I'm a spiritual person. There's no right answer. I don't think I'm a spiritual person. That's fine. At least not yet. You're going to get me there. Whatever. Have you found joy outside of work? Yeah. How? Well, I find incredible joy in my relationship with my wife. Great. I feel incredible joy in my relationship with my kids and their growth and everything else. I love now surfing, as you know.

1:10:09Yeah. How did you come to surfing? My wife said, let's go to Costa Rica. She goes, yeah, she goes, you're going to love it and you're going to learn how to surf. Have you ever done anything in the ocean before? No, not at all. And you grew up in Chicago. So you got to go to the ocean. But when we went to Israel every summer, we went into a lot. And so she got me out there, got wiped out, tons and tons of time. But I'm competitive. Yeah. And so then I got one. I got a wave. And it was like, this is it. This is it. It was like when I first started golfing. Yeah. I signed this guy, Chris Thompson, who was one of the great writers.

1:10:48Yeah. Took me out the lakeside. Summer, July. I'm in a suit, pick up a club. Never golf before. Shanking, shaking. Hit the ball right on the screws, as they say. Sold. Wow. Same thing with surfing. That's beautiful. Yeah. And I just love it. If you know anything about golf, I'm a 15 -handy cap, which is not a very good handy cap. Surfer. But you love surfing. I love it. How great is that? Yeah. And it's a new passion. Oh, yeah. There's a surf ranch up here. I cannot wait. Two days. And you just get better.

1:11:35Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1:11:45Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.