Ben Patrick

25:22Not anymore. A really tough one. With two toddlers. Yeah. I mean, that's the working family. Yeah. About six, six years ago. Yeah. Got a dog. Didn't want a dog. Of course, now I'm obsessed with it. He chews up the remote of the TV. And I was the kind that I would show up at work early, stay late, get home, exhausted, veg out, watch Netflix or whatever. I just thought that was like, all right, like I have to. So when he chewed up the remote, I was kind of like, I need to get my shit together. So I tried to like go a year of not doing that. And it was like the best year of my life. So then I went back to it a bit.

26:01But once we had our first kid, I'm like, I'm gonna have to kick this habit again. And I've never gone back. So it was like three and a half years ago. I mean. And it's just like my wife and I, we don't. She's one of these people that can have like a bite of a chocolate chip cookie and be like, wow, that was incredible. I'm like, what do you mean? You're not eating six of them? Yeah. So I've kind of learned from her with that. And because she was strong with it and didn't need TV. Her and I, I like, it shifted. We're obsessed with the kids. There's nothing I could buy or do that would replace my time with them.

26:32And I used to feel like I had a weird job working from home online, being an online coach. Because I work from home, I film my videos my yard. I'm much more involved with the kids. And it aligns with exercise. So I'm lucky that my kids and all the time with them, it also aligns with these problems of, how do you raise a kid now to eat healthy food and exercise and these kind of things? My worlds are blending of adult knees and longevity also with youth exercise. And how do you do that in a way? And we were, I don't know when we started growing, but yeah, my wife and I, we bought some land where we could afford to get some land.

27:11And we're building a schoolhouse. Great. So that other local kids will want to come over, maybe 10, 20 kids with my kids. I want a home school, but I don't want them to be, quote, unquote, home school, a small class type environment. And my wife and I are going to be running the school. Amazing. And hopefully you'll come up with a curriculum that you'll also be able to share with everybody. Yeah. I love sharing it. So I already put out my first proposed exercise routine. Yeah. So I have like on my Instagram, YouTube, I call the school Common Sense University. Common Sense, you, with like the letter u .org, I'm keeping everything there for free.

27:48So like people can go right now and see my kids workout system free. The kids stuff always be free. Sounds great. Yeah. How were you first able to get your message out? Let's see. Used Instagram. That was the first social media platform. Used Instagram. I'm trying to just film, get the message out every day. Just showing what you were doing? Yeah. People in person telling me like, this needs to be common knowledge out there. So I came up with this Knees Over Toes Guy name, which to me is like, if I can just educate on this idea that knee over toes is not just like a blanket, bad thing. You called it that because historically, we're taught that you never want to have your knees over your toes.

28:34Yeah. Your knees are never supposed to go more than 90 degree, that 90 degree angle. That's what they always teach in physical education. Yeah. There's more pressure on your knee when it goes over your toes. That was found in the 70s. Yes. And that it was dangerous to do. That was the conclusion. Yeah. That was the old thinking or still the mainstream thinking. Yeah. You actually had like historically people exercised and actually did plenty of exercises with their knees over their toes. When exercise then started becoming a university subject, like let's do studies on this. Let's test it. So you have this finding that knee over toes equals more pressure on the knee.

29:15So that's a finding pressure. Now there have been long term analysis. And it's like, whoops, actually people who train that preserve the knee better. Yes. Have less lower body injuries. Yes. So even academia now, the academic studies show word for word contrary to commonly voice concern. Yes. But that's what went in is known as over toes. That's what got entered into the textbooks. So it's this tricky situation now where and lots of professors reach out to me and they tell me that some professors even have to put the notations in the textbook saying this actually is incorrect and here's a link to a later study.

29:59But the professors also tell me that most professors don't do that. So the majority, if you're in college right now for exercise science, the majority are being taught something that actually has been proven false. Yeah. And they're being made to believe it, being made to answer it that way and tests in order to graduate and then perpetuating that. So for me, it was like, if I could just get out awareness on that point. Yes. That would be a worthwhile career. What's also interesting is you had the experience of healing your knees to the point of where you got drafted for basketball. Yeah. And the same people who drafted you based on the strength of your knees, which were only that way because of the your workouts, then told you you're not allowed to do those workouts.

30:46Yeah. Is that really a true story? Yes. So I went, I got a scholarship to a junior college. Yes. It's a two year college. Yes. They didn't have a strength department. I remember early on like an assistant coach, of course, told me, no knees over toes can't bend your knee deep below 90 degrees. And I had to follow those instructions. But they didn't really keep up a strength system. There was no strength coach for the team, just a cheaper two year school. So by my second year, I was able to do my own workouts. And I got a lot of heat for it at first. My teammates didn't like the fact that I wasn't doing the team workouts.

31:25I would then invite teammates to go with me to show them like how hard I was training. It took time to build up respect of the coach. Like they knew I was doing my knees over toes workouts. But the rest of the team, like I wasn't doing some of those team workouts. And those kept me so healthy. I didn't miss a game. Without the knees over toes, I wouldn't have been. You would have been a college class. And I helped my team win two straight conference titles. I've been super close with the head coach to this day. And I actually then went back after graduating and actually implemented this stuff with the team.

31:55So they've been one of the most successful junior college teams in the country. To the point that that head coach is now a head division one coach. Amazing. At a four year school. Amazing. And they'll keep doing these over toes there. But the majority of college graduates. And to be at a four year college. You now have a strength coach who's certified. And so they were certified and told no knees over toe. So it was like I was being told, well, yeah, you're not going to be allowed to do knees over toes here. And it's like, but that's what got me here. It's a true story. Yeah. And concurrent with that.

32:25I was 23 years old by that point. Because it took me some years after high school to fix my knees. To then even try to go to college. So NCAA division one denied my eligibility to play. I was too old to play. So I could either get a lawyer and fight it. I got a division one full ride division one scholarship. Or I could play division two. But whether it was division one or division two. They weren't going to let me do knees over toes. And it was the summertime. I was already training kids helping kids get out of knee pain, helping other high school players fix their knee pain. So when my eligibility was denied, I was like, I'm meant to start coaching people.

33:02I don't want to go through another two years of trying to train behind the coaches back. It wasn't fun. I wasn't trying to be different from the team. And so I just been training people ever since.

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34:45Have you noticed any other discrepancies in what's taught in the textbooks? Not just needs overtoes. Any other things that you do that's a little different.

34:59Everything that you're told not to do. Yes. There's got to be some context. Meaning your body, it's not made a certain way and it's like, whoops, well don't move it that way. Whatever your body could move. It's meant to do. That's okay. That was a huge eye -oper for me as I kept going and going. It's like, I don't believe there's a bad exercise. Every day people ask me, oh I see this video says this is bad or you shouldn't do this for your shoulders. It's all context. The exercise landscape would be much better if every trainer understood that any natural human movement you can do is fine. Then there's context like how a sled you could load with weight and it's fundamentally pretty safe.

35:46That's context. It doesn't mean that heavy weight bad. Heavy weight, lightweight. Is it should body weight only or is it all context? Yeah. Weight, machines, body weight, pressing over your head, rounding your spine, twisting your spine. Anything you could possibly do with your body is all context. Overall I would say it's like wherever your body has limitations. In my opinion, there hasn't been enough time for the studies to be done and so on. But without question in my experience, it's like wherever someone has limitation is where they're going to have the most problems. So you would almost want to find rather than avoiding that thing, find what level could they do at that thing and then build from there.

36:28Some people have had to walk backward in a pool. It was too much fun to walk backward online. But rather than saying don't do that, it's like well at what level could you do that? Yeah. Describe the different exercises that are in your mind, the key exercises. What are the handful that would probably benefit most people? Right to mind jumps and I make the most videos on these is we've already covered the sledding. And then or the backwards treadmill, which sounds great. Sled or resisted treadmill. And there are other brands of resisted treadmills, gym models that are $5 ,000, $10 ,000. I was just trying to make a cheaper one for home use.

37:07But again, where's the resistance is from under your foot? Like the resistance is the ground itself rather than bearing down on you. So to me that category of exercise, huge, where you're resisting from the ground with sled or resisted treadmill. That's to me that's number one. And then to me number two is for lack of a better term, stretch strength. So the bulk of the quote unquote weightlifting I do, if someone looked at it, it would be like, is that a strength exercise? Yeah. Is he stretching right now? Yeah. I'm stretching and strengthening at the exact same time. And so a classic one is a split squat, but where your front leg is going all the way down, like a deep squat on the front leg.

37:51So when you say squat, I think of feet together, but going down. It's not that. It's more like a lunge. It's like exactly. It's like a lunge, but where your front leg is all the way down deep. Your front leg, where your front leg, where your front leg, and a deep, yeah, goes as far forward as it can. Yep. And your butt drops. So the front leg is in a deep squat, and the back leg is stretching. Like you feel your, the front of your hip muscles stretching. So the back knee doesn't go down to the ground. Exactly. Doesn't touch. Right. So the front of the leg, the front of the back leg stretches while the front leg is knees over toes.

38:32Yeah. And your butt gets as close to that front foot as possible, I assume. Yep. That's right. And the average person is not going to be able to do that standing on the ground. That's a good goal to get to. Like for my mom, she's 70, she's worked her way to where she can do that. And now it's like mom, maintain that, the rest of your life. And you're like way ahead of the game. But the more you elevate the front foot, the easier it gets to do the exercise. And then you can put stuff near you for assistance. So you have with this exercise, which like you're saying, you could call it a deep lunch.

39:06Yeah. It's a deep lunch in place. Like you're not a walking lump, you're staying in the same spot. The front leg, you're going as deep as you can, the back leg, you're stretching as much as you can. And then you could have assistance. So you could do like less than your body's weight. And you can elevate the front foot, which requires less flexibility. The lower you go requires more flexibility. And then you could remove the assistance. So you're doing your own body weight. And you could even add weight. So for me, I use about 45 pounds in each hand, flat on the ground, no apparatus needed, and just drop down into this deep lunch.

39:44But I had to start with my front foot elevated, assisting myself to balance. My mom had to start that way. So my goal is doing it weighted. My mom's goal is just maintaining her body weight. My wife is a figure skater. So she actually then elevates her back foot for even more stretch. She has to go around on the ice holding up a leg in a split. I can do a split. She has to be able to do it like beyond splits, at least for her figure skating goals. It's not a one size fits all kind of thing. It has many different levels and different ways people could do it. But that was the one after the idea of strengthening from the ground up with sledder resisted treadmill.

40:22This idea of stretch strength strengthening my muscles through full ranges of motion, stretching strength at the same time. That had the most powerful effects to then keep me off pain killers. So like, I've never gone back. I haven't 10 plus years without a setback. And that's without question is the biggest reason why. Amazing. So split squats is a good one. Yeah, and we just call it ATG split squat. What does ATG mean? ATG has always been the term for astergrass meaning like a deep squat. So it's like do you squat to you know 90 degrees or do you squat astergrass? And so in trying to give it a name that people would understand.

40:58Yes. Just call it and then a split squat refers to a lunge where you're in place. Yes. A lunge typically refers like you're moving your covering distance. Or a split squat is just an in place lunge. So an ATG split squat is then an astergrass split squat. On the front foot is it okay if the heel comes off the ground? Totally fine. Doesn't matter. So like if someone were to squat down right now and keep their heels down. Yes. There's going to be more pressure in the back. And that's fine like there's different exercise you can do to build the back. If you think about a power lift or squatting a thousand pounds the heels are down.

41:34They're not like up on their tippy toes. The heels are down and more weight shifts to the back. But then as you lift your heels maybe you think about like a dancer doing some deep move. Where the knees are way over the toes and the heels are lifted. The back is no longer the limiting factor of the legs and the knees are the limiting factor. So in any squat, whether a split squat or regular squat, there's no good or bad. It's just different context. The more the heels are down the more you're going to be traing the hips. And then the more the heels up the more the load is going to go to the knee.

42:04So some people find different comfort of what they like. Some people mix it up. I mix it up. I do both. So heel up more knee, heel down more hip. I remember at least in the 70s, I don't know if it's still the case that basketball players were high top sneakers. Yeah. It's the idea of a high top getting support of the ankle. A good idea or bad idea. Well, Kobe was really the innovator on this. At least as far as I can see on having a high top basketball shoe sounds like it would protect the ankle. But an ankle spray is so much force. There's not evidence that a high top protects the ankle better.

42:46A low top means that your general ankle is going to be stronger. So the more high top, the weaker the ankle is going to be. And if you do spray, that fabric is not necessarily enough to prevent it from spraying. Yeah. So Kobe went to a low top shoe. I like a low top shoe at the end of the day. What's up there now in the best of the top? Low top. Yeah. Everybody. I wouldn't say everybody, but I've done surveys on this with my buddies and stuff because it's like, man, it seems like people really like the Kobe shoes more. And yeah, the average basketball player, like the majority, prefer what Kobe really popularized, which was a lower top basketball shoe.

43:24And he didn't even like it's big of a heel cushion. That was like a marketing thing. It's kind of like we need a good idea. And it came from a guy in NASA who was like, all right, let's put air in the heel of a shoe. It didn't come from someone who plays basketball. Yeah. A guy from NASA came up with the idea of like putting air in the heels of basketball shoes. The study done on that shows your four times more likely to spray in your ankle. You don't jump off the heels. You jump off the balls of the feet. And just elevating a basketball shoe upward higher off the ground. That means when you do roll your ankle, it's just a more massive spring.

43:54So Kobe not only wanted low top, he then didn't want the giant cushion in the heel. So you're actually, the heel is lower to the ground. The ball of the foot is still about the same spot. The ball of the foot was never elevated super high as the heel elevated super high. So he really had like a common sense basketball shoe in my opinion. Did you ever read Born to Run? Yeah. That talked about most running injuries are due to shoes and the fact that they're not made as if you were running barefoot. Yeah. Running barefoot, let's say in grass. Yes. You might have like a natural running pattern. Yes.

44:31But now if you're running in concrete, obviously barefoot, you don't want to step on something. So concrete's not natural, but neither would like a giant shoe be natural. So I just think for most people, it's going to be somewhere in the middle. I like to wear something like when I'm playing basketball. Mm -hmm. Well, I'm on a hardwood floor. I can't wear a pure barefoot shoe on a hardwood basketball because the hardwood is not natural. Too hard. Yeah. So ideal would be, I mean before recording, I came early just to go put my feet in the sand. Yeah. It's a best. Down the road. It feels incredible.

45:03It feels so good. That's something that's natural, but it's not realistic for everyone. So I think people have to find like what type of shoe works best for them. Yeah. And for most people I found, it's going to be something where you have some support, but not like extra support and with running. Some people even run barefoot and stuff. There will be a lot of adaptation that will have to occur in the foot. But there's no, like there's no doubt that barefoot is natural. So then, all right, what surface are you living on in life? Can you stay natural? Do you need some support? How much support?

45:33Because concrete is not natural. Yeah. So it's just what's your lifestyle? Yeah. Yeah. The typical work -a -day business man shoes. They jam the toes in so much. My feet were deformed to look exactly like basketball shoes. Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever tried the Yogato spreaders? For sure. I even make some because people like this. My least impressive invention is a basketball shoe that is shaped like a foot. But so it doesn't jam the toe. Why is that at least impressive? Well, because try explaining to a kid, this is a shoe that's shaped like a foot. I mean, shouldn't it be shaped like a foot? You think so?

46:09Yeah. No, in basketball. So for years and years, I'm like, someone needs to make a basketball shoe that doesn't jam your big toe in. That lets your big toe be straight. So when I play basketball, I put in the big toe spacer. Nice. And I wear my shoe that doesn't jam the toe in. And so then when I'm playing on the court, I can actually feel my big toes helping out. Nice. There's even some false data of like, well, the toes being jammed in gives you like a performance boot. It's just not true. There's no science behind that. I'm out there playing, dunking all the dunks you see me do on my page. I'm wearing shoes that don't jam my big toes in.

46:42And I've got a big toe spacer for my previously deformed feet. And my toes, my big toes are helping me out. And there's only one guy on earth who's 50 years old and not over six foot who can still dunk a basketball. And he can even do it barefoot. Wow. And he takes the time to do the exercises and make his toes like he thinks that big toe is his extra little boost. Yeah. Not to mention for health reasons. Coddour, Ziani, French guy, one of the smartest people I've met, huge heart. And so look, if he doesn't need to jam in his big toes and he's 50 years old, dunking a basketball. Like you don't have to jam in your big toes.

47:24Yeah. Are your shoes available? Yeah. Yeah. I saw them. I call it, we call it the uncivilized sneaker. That sounds great. Yeah. It's been a great business. Great. Sneaker business is super fun. And they're comfy to wear. Do you wear them? Every workout. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like when I, I try to just be barefoot or like Birkenstock, something like just those don't jam in the big toes. But like at home, I'm just barefoot. I work out a lot barefoot. But depending on what I'm doing, like if I'm going to be like sledding hard or anything that I do then want to wear shoes, that's all I wear. So I mean, I'm either Birkenstocks or the uncivilized sneaker or barefoot.

48:01That's it.

48:10Let's continue on the exercises. So sled number one, get squats is number two. Yeah. Stretch strength, which you could apply for all sorts of areas everybody. What would be the next one up? I would go right from there. It's like, I think of it on the order of if you abbreviated it, sled, stretch strength, no weak links. Meaning there are some things that because gyms were not set up a certain way that almost everyone has certain muscles that just were missed out on. I see. So when I talk about a lot is the tibialis muscle, the anterior tibialis. So that means anterior front and tibialis means of the shin bone, the tibia is the shin bone.

48:45So it's not your calf muscles. It's on the other side. So like if you went into a gym right now and you said where's the calf machine, they would show you to a standing or seated calf machine. But then if you said where's the tibialis machine, like I want to do the opposite. I train my biceps and my triceps. I want to train my calves and my tips. I train my chest and my back. You get the front and the back. So most people have built up and they don't train that muscle. And so when it comes to, okay, we're sledding now. We're getting stretch strength going deep like work. Well, I was still having some major shin problems.

49:19Like I was powering up my legs. And even my calves were getting stronger. My feet were getting stronger from the sledding. I was doing calf raises. But I just kept having shin problems. And so it was really frustrating to like have finally overcome my knees. And then sometimes to try to go play basketball and have debilitating shin paint, where I have to stop playing because my shins are hurting so bad. Like what the heck? And it's because I was coming from such a fragile body. Now I'm building all these other muscles. So I created this huge discrepancy that the front of my shin, the tibialis muscle, was never trained.

49:51So it's super underdeveloped, starts under the knee, wraps around to the inside of the shin. So adding that to the formula. And like I've never looked back. And what's the exercise? You can do it with a wall. So you don't need any equipment. You have a wall. And your butts against the wall. And your legs are in front of you. And you raise your toes. So it's like a reverse calf raise. Yeah, but do that 25 times. You're on fire. So you can do it that way without any equipment. And then I was desiring though, like some sort of measurement. Like, all right, these other exercises we have weights. There's measurement.

50:25And there was a guy who had created a bar to strengthen the tibialis. So you put weights on it. You sit on a bench. And you're able to do reverse calf raises with the bar and weights. There's weights hanging down. And they were no longer being produced. He passed away. Self -proclaimed bad business man. Really should have turned into a business. I would love to be like paying him royalties on it or something. So I started making videos saying, I was like strapping stuff to my feet. I was taping or banding weights to my feet. An equipment company reached out said what needs to exist that doesn't.

50:58I said this bar needs to be revived. And they did that. I wasn't involved in the business of it whatsoever. There's now, you can go on Amazon and type tibbar. And there's like dozens of sellers. And they're not mine. I think one. I do have my own now. It's like a category now. Tibbar. Yeah, for the average person, that's going to be really helpful. And if you think about longevity and having more strength coming from those lower leg muscles. This is very helpful for the rest of your life to be stronger down lower towards your ankle and knee. So I would say sled, ATG split squat, Tiby Alice would be the three most common that I've seen the average person has like some gains that they haven't tapped into.

51:39Upper body. Upper body, I train the same style of like the stretch and the strength. So when I press dumbbells, like I don't stop the dumbbells at my chest, I turn my wrist so that the dumbbells can keep stretching down without touching my body. Pull ups hanging, that stuff is great. Like I like to do pull ups through full range of motion or have people hang. So I've seen great results for the upper body with that too. But it's not like I was a baseball player with elbow or shoulder surgeries. So the upper body, I keep similar principles as the lower body. But I definitely don't do as much content on it because I'm not trying to claim stuff I haven't experienced.

52:20Yeah. So I've seen good results with the same philosophies, stretch strength, no weak links in the upper body. Okay, a lot of people bench press, good idea to strengthen the muscles on the opposing side. I think it's all pretty common sense in the upper body. Definitely take some heat sometime. Like if I show using full range of motion in the upper body, there's similar limiting beliefs of like, oh, you're not supposed to bend the elbows deep or you're not supposed to do full range of motion with the upper body. But I don't think that's the case. So as a rule, full range of motion seems good. It's called full range of motion because it's natural.

52:53I think it's outstanding. And it just may mean learning new techniques that you haven't seen people doing in the gym. So I mean, it's different and that can be like a little bit scary at first. But short term, you're maybe using a little less weight or looking a little differently, but long term to build a more protected body. And if the studies on the lower body show that the full range of motion equals more protection, I can't imagine that then for the elbows, the shoulders, and I've had similar success. There's tons of success stories of people using these same principles for the elbows, the shoulders, the spine, and having really life -changing results.

53:28People have had debilitating problems with the back or the shoulders. And it seems like if you were training in a limited way in the gym, but then in a real world situation, you had to stretch in a different way because of the whatever thing you're dealing with, you wouldn't really be prepared. It seems like full range of motion is life. Yeah, that's all I view. Tell me about flexibility. Why is it important? Is it as important as strength? Ying Yang, baby. Youth is flexibility. Adulter then is strength. What's aging? Laws of both. So to me, what I see the best longevity results is training those two concepts in harmony, the strength and the flexibility.

54:14It's not which is better or it's not just be flexible, but don't be strong, or be strong, but not flexible. I'm particularly obsessed with this stretch strength, where you're training both at the same time. You're not using an amount of weight that causes you to stop short. Like if you load enough, you won't be able to use your full flexibility. And you're not stretching beyond a point that you're strong. You're not forcing yourself past a stretch that you're not strong in that position. So everything I do, I don't personally do any passive stretches. I use the strength through my flexibility.

54:50And I've seen even if someone wants to add more stretching to that, they totally could. But like, I can do the splits and you can definitely get to some excellent levels of flexibility with stretch strength training. You always do them together. That's right. Yeah. And if there's not a convenient way to add weights, it's more like I'm in a position where I'm stretching, but I'm not just passively there. I'm like actively strengthening the muscles against the pad or whatever it is. Is there a body weight -only version for every exercise if you don't have any equipment? As far as I've seen. Yeah.

55:24Pretty dang close to it. Again, it doesn't mean that body weight's better, but it's sure cool that it's accessible. Absolutely. If you happen to be in a situation where you don't have any equipment and you still want to be able to do it, it seems good. Yeah. Sometimes it's a great way to learn too because you can't rush the process. You're like trying to own your body. Yeah. I think it's fantastic. Huge fan of body weight training. And yeah, I relentlessly try in any newer video people are going to see of me. You're going to see me taking a lot of time to show context, to show how to do it with body weight.

55:54That's great. Yeah. I have a whole, my whole kid system, all 10 steps. You don't need any weights. Like it's all body weight. And can adults do the kid system as well? A lot do. I mean, people are texting me saying, hey, my whole family just did the CSU workout. The CSU fitness regimen. So yeah, the CSU fitness regimen is free. It's been hours and hours to try to make it just as fast to learn for people as possible. And it's like a 10 step workout that your kids could do. You could do it with them. And yeah, it's body weight. It doesn't mean that you couldn't add weights to it, but it's like, yeah, it's a body weight system.

56:26Why not? Master your body weight at a young age. It's fantastic. You still have time to then learn how to add weights. Best foot exercises. Not going to claim to be an expert there. I will say that the fact of starting with the slider resisted treadmill, you're really engaging those foot structures. Yeah. So I think there's a lot more that someone could add for themselves. I try to keep almost like what's the least number of tools that I need? Yep. When you're pushing through, I think of it like a big three. If you're pushing through those foot structures with the slider resisted treadmill, if you're training your calves and your tibialis, the calf muscles, those run really deep, the tibialis runs really deep and even attaches to the inside of the foot.

57:10But what you're doing, those three things, the majority of people are going to be symptom free, are going to have really good feet. So it's like, all right, if we can do those basics and the average person can have great feet, that doesn't mean there might not be further value. But like, that's what I've lived. That's what I've experienced. That's what I've coached thousands of times. Yeah. I can't really see myself going beyond that in terms of what I coach. Anything specific for the toes or that's also... Again, I think that just goes beyond my thoughts on it, are like, I wish every gym had like a big sand pit or something.

57:41I mean, it's so amazing when you're in really good sand. Your feet are doing all these things that might take just lots of complexity to do. And bear in mind for me, when I work out, it's the same process every time. If I'm in a gym with a sled, great. If I'm at home, I've got my resisted treadmill. Within 60 seconds, I'm huffing and puffing. My legs are on fire. So I only know lace up, start workout. Within 60 seconds, I'm huffing and puffing. My legs are burned. Like I'm working out. Yeah. So for me, the idea of doing further toe drills, I do that, then I train my ankles. So when I do the tibialis and the calves, not only do those get a good burn, I'm still catching my breath from the sled.

58:27Depending by that, I'm already into the deep leg work. So it's like everything I do is metabolically really demanding it's a workout. Like 20, 30 minutes of this, you could get a full body workout. There's nothing I do that's like just a drill that's not metabolically. So I feel like someone, if they have the time and the desire, there's so many great resources these days. The foot collective on Instagram. There's dedicated pages just as I put out what I know for free. There's dedicated pages putting out more data on the foot. So for a lot of people, that might be like, if the basics don't cover it, maybe get even more ability for the area, it's just I'm not going to try to be an expert on something that I haven't had to really master.

59:13And yeah, sand one day we got to have sand in every gym. Have sled have sand. Yeah. And you don't need that much sand, right? Because you could do it in place, do you think most of the sand stuff? Like, I think it's a cool idea just like walking in sand. I don't know, maybe they could make like giant treadmills that just kind of slow. Just like slow and these just go take a walk in there. I don't know. I mean, who knows what people can come up with. But I've always been like, man, it'd be so cool if there was some way to get sand. Like what's the equivalent of walking in sand in a treadmill like experience?

59:48That's a good, that's a good problem to show for a walk. But you know, it's you get outside in the sun walking in actual sand. There's so many benefits. So maybe it's like maybe the real solution there is find the best grass or sand near you. And heck, if you're in Minnesota, that's really how the backward treadmill thing came about. Because I was making a sled with these really brilliant family with the factory in Minnesota. And they're like, well, we can't use the sled most of the year. It's freezing outside. Yeah. So we start making a backward treadmill. So I feel like for northern climates.

1:00:19Yeah, I think you got to get some sand in there. Yeah. Somehow. Yeah. I think in your case, this also, you have incredible dedication. You'll work at something for years and years and years and years to get the results you want. You're tenacious. And I think that's a huge piece of the puzzle of that. I'm willing to do whatever it takes. Whatever it takes doesn't have to be terrible. But you're consistent and you'll show up and you'll do it. Whatever it is. Yeah. That's often how things get done. Yeah. You don't know what's on the other side. Yeah. But you know you're going to keep showing up. Absolutely.

1:00:58The one for me now on this, like, I've committed now to putting a schoolhouse. Yeah. And teaching my kit, like, yeah. I'm finally earning the age where they can go to school and I can have the day off for myself. Yeah. And I'm committing myself. Trust me, that's this like huge daunting thing of like, poli shit. But there is no free time. It's, I'm now not only a dad, I'm now going to be educating students. And there's a balance. I'll do certain things. I'll be more on the physical education side. But this is like, this is what I'm committing to. Will I figure it out? Well, I'll have ten plus years.

1:01:35I believe I can come up with a great youth health system where it doesn't feel forced, where they're self determined, where they understand their body, where they don't feel forced, where they enjoy it. Like, these are the goals I have for it. Well, I'm going to show up for ten plus years. And you know you have the love and you have the intention, which is probably more than they could get from anyone else in any system. And that's probably the most important part. Yeah. Yeah, the best teachers I had growing up, you could feel the love. It was there. Like, they really cared about you. And I think there's a lot of rightness about the school system.

1:02:14But for me, I couldn't find something that I honestly felt. I am lucky to be in the position I'm in. I'm lucky that my job is making videos in my yard. Yeah. I'm not going to squander that. And what else am I going to do now with the time if my kids aren't school during the day? Like, I locked out. Yeah. I'm either heading towards the next ten years of thinking, ooh, what more business opportunities might there be for me? I found this shit I like to do. Yeah. I'm good. Yeah. Or could I be of more service? Kids' health? You know what? If I look around, what things could I do? I can't see anything that I could be of more potential value in that.

1:02:52So throwing myself in there. Great. Sitting behind a desk all day when you're a little kid? That seems insane. That seems like the worst idea. One -to -one ratio minimum is one of the key principles to me that I refuse to break. I refuse to believe that you have to be in the classroom more than half the time. And I couldn't find a single school system that does this. Well, any that I could find here in the classroom, the majority of the time. I went through it. The amount of actual time that I was learning critical things, I took it seriously. I only got to be one time. Always. I took it seriously.

1:03:29I did what I was told to do. I can see the areas that really were needed. I think you can get the basics in in less amount of time. I think you only need 40 minutes for a class not an hour. So I'm doing 40 -minute classes rather than an hour. So you got 20 minutes just be a kid. 40 minutes focused. I'll bet we can do more than 60 minutes. And then you're just turning over to the next class. 40 minutes with a 20 -minute break. And then at least half of the quote -unquote classes are not in the classroom. Like school made me hate you. So I'm thinking of school not as the end of education. I'm thinking of school as how can I set up the rest of life?

1:04:10Yeah. Creating curiosity. Problem solving. Yeah. One of the things that I'm proposing that I'm going to attempt in the school is that when it comes to the reading class, is that the kids pick what they want to read about. I'm sure over 10 years of schooling, or whatever it is, like I'm going to focus on the 6 to 14 -8. So roughly 8 years of like, I think in 8 years I can get the basics in. I think that's a good amount of time that a kid can become a good reader, a good writer, good at the basics of math. But can you become good at reading and writing? By reading and writing about things you're interested in?

1:04:46I think so. Yeah. I'll say probably better. That's what I'm hypothesizing. So I'm not saying, yeah, from 6 to 14, my kids are not going to read. It's like my goal is actually that my kids will love reading. Yeah. Because they'll be able to find stuff they want to read about. The reason you were willing to do so much work on yourself was because of your love of basketball. Yeah. And a lot of the work that you were doing wasn't playing basketball. It was training so that you could play basketball the way you wanted to play basketball. If it wasn't for the love of basketball, you would have never put yourself through all that, both learning and physical work.

1:05:28Good point. You have the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. Another one that Charles Paulic went, yeah, he said, don't see life through a straw. And he firmly believed in love, meaning like it wasn't discipline, it was love. Like you love, you know, it's just semantics. But his viewpoint was like, you love something enough that it makes you appear then disciplined or so on. Yeah. There's different ways to think about it. But the point is that, yeah, I think when it comes to reading and writing, I found that I did best when I was reading and writing things I was interested about. Of course. All of a sudden, I was this great read.

1:06:04Like when I looked back through my schooling, there were times when I was this great reader, but it was because I was actually interested in that book, or I was great writing. Because like what I found is like, I would take every creative writing class I could, but then I hated English class. And now writing has been one of like the most helpful parts of my career is writing. But I grew up hating the thought of writing until I found like the creative writing classes. Because you got to write about what you were interested in. Yeah. And it just wasn't quite enough creativity though. It was like, okay, I have to pick creative writing, but now I'm giving up any other art.

1:06:38Like wait, I can't creative write and do music. Or like there was almost so much time in the day. Yeah. And so much of it was the stuck in the classroom stuff. I think kids can learn plenty fine, balancing up with more time to be a kid, art, anything creative, like athletic, whatever. I think they'll learn a bit better.

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1:08:21Has your training, physical training impacted other areas of your life? I think so, from finding, rather than running from the problem at what level could I face this problem. I know that if there's some issue with my wife, to the core of me, I know it's going to work out better to actually bring it up at whatever gentle level rather than avoid it. Some of the lessons from the training have helped me in life, that it's facing the thing rather than running from the thing. But not shotgun blasting. Not avoiding. But what level could you approach it that could actually be acceptable? But then what could you build from there?

1:09:03And then before you know it, some subject that was tough or all of a sudden, that's not like a strength for you. So seeing that could happen, that my knees could go from a weakness to a strength, from actually facing them rather than the common advice of avoiding them, but then building that on a step by step level. Now it's like, yeah, I could be good at anything. I don't know how good I could. You could be anything. I could become proficient. I could become at a professional level at just about anything. Now how good? Not everyone's going to be my consort. But could I actually get good quality skill?

1:09:36I feel like I could learn anything to some level. Absolutely. You could train to do anything. And you could train to do anything a lot better than when you start. For sure. Yeah. Anything. Yeah. And just the desire and the putting in the work. Yeah. Do you have any revisions of things that maybe in the beginning you did it one way, but you found a better way? Well, I mean, the one that just jumps to mind is like, social media is interesting because the modern algorithms sort of reward arguments in the comments. I used to try to show more flashy things to get attention, like extreme knee exercises.

1:10:15But now it's almost like a challenge. Can I make regressions interesting enough that people will watch that? Yeah. So definitely a shift in terms of trying to make it really clear to people you don't have to try extreme knee exercises. That's not the point of knees over toes. The point is actually regressions. Can I teach that at such quality that I can still get good views and so on? I mean, that's been the biggest difference. Like it was very easy to like just do some freaky knee thing and get views. But you have people in the comments, oh my gosh, you should never let your... And you let the people argue and that stokes the out.

1:10:50So now I... It's like, can I actually just put out an educational work and still do fine? And I found yeah, I can do totally fine. So definitely a revision in terms of like people don't have to go to extremes on it. Like they could apply this at whatever level. And if you do something at high enough quality, you can keep your integrity in. You don't have to sell out to whatever the platform. Yeah. And that's what I would just tell the young up -and -coming content creators is like, you know, sometimes I see it and sometimes I talk to these people. And it's not necessarily good for your happiness to like change your integrity to get views or make money.

1:11:25That's a really good point. It's one of the things that pushes me away from social media is the sensational nature of it. You know, like showing what's horrifying or the anger or... And if you can create an argument in the comments that platforms just give you more and more views. I had no idea. Oh yeah, you can't know that. Yeah, because I try to stay up to date on social media. Yeah. And it's like I can almost call it one for one. Like I'll point out to my wife and she'll be like, oh my gosh, you know this. Just to stay up to date. Like what's the editing styles? What's what's doing well? I see something viral and she'll be like, oh wow, that's a great parenting tip.

1:12:01And I'm like, no, no, no, you don't see why it went viral. Wait too open up the comments. It went viral because of this point that could be like you see a mom working hard at home, working out and the babies nearby. And you go to the comments and it's all people saying, don't lift weights near a baby. And so then you can also see when creators intentionally do stuff like that. Yeah. Because they're chasing the views. So social media is interesting that yes, statistically you could almost manufacture successful views by throwing your integrity out the door. And some of the best content creators I know don't get as much views because there's no argument in the like playing the game.

1:12:46Right. If you taught something well enough that there would be no argument in the comments, you get less views. That's shocking. It's really a sad state of the industry. Yeah. And so then you end up with the masses. Very confused and taking sides. I mean, it's just it leads to so much taking sides and arguments when it's really the context. And that's why I think I think this day and age, if you're coming up, you got to have some sort of advisors. And I don't even mean in person. I mean, all right, someone who listened to this podcast is going to learn some things that you might not see in a social media video.

1:13:22That then my guide you that then when you're faced with that, that you would go, you know, I'm going to keep my integrity in on this knowing that I could still get 10 ,000 views and build up, you know, a legitimate business for myself instead of playing that game. And that would be okay. And I could be happier with my integrity in and that the more views doesn't equal more happy because it actually does. Yeah. If your integrity goes out for more success on paper, I think your happiness is going down. Yeah. Tell me about the whole, I know very little about social media. Tell me about your experience from the beginning.

1:14:01What did you learn? What worked? What didn't work from the earliest days? Well, I started just on Instagram. That was the sort of most known short form platform. And you thought short forms are the best way to teach? Just seemed like what the masses were kind of engaging in. I see. This was a little bit before TikTok erupted. So at that time, Instagram still had more aesthetics. Like at that time, like Joe Rogan finding my content blew up my content more than anything I've ever done. The luckiest thing that's happened to my content. It's lucky, but also the content's good and he recognized something good.

1:14:38So it is lucky that he found it. Yeah, no doubt. But it's not unusual. Yeah, no doubt. I had already helped thousands of people. But at that time, you could put like some gorgeous visuals showing, let's say, regressions of form. But you could put a quality thing and underneath it, you could write something no gimmicks needed. And it could do very well. Then TikTok came about the short video age. It's changed everything. So now Instagram wants reals, which is just a copy of TikTok. And even YouTube now wants shorts, which is just a copy of TikTok. The problem with short video without then being able to write about it or give longer explanation.

1:15:24It leads to these sort of arguments. And it's how can you get context across in such a fast video. And then the algorithm is clearly rewarding. How can I mention that? And so Instagram is mostly a TikTok now. And YouTube is mostly a TikTok now. No matter how much effort I put into long form, all the top views are on short form videos. So for me, it's become a challenge of like, how do I keep my integrity? How do I give context? How do I not have a single argument in the comments? Can I teach this without a single argument in the comments and have it do well? And it's fine. But do I see things that I could go, you know, I could get more views if I did it this way?

1:16:07Yeah. And that's where the maturity has been for me is seeing that's not actually the right thing to do. You're starting from a solid place. And people like your content. So you have an audience. Yeah. Yeah. And if you're trying to provide for your family, you can absolutely do that 100 % with your integrity in. Yeah. Just more views for everyone. Doesn't necessarily mean a more stable business. Yeah. And you can see some of these people who become sort of like social media celebrities and they're just putting their whole life on display and just any possible contribute. And calling people out is it like that's one thing like I will never use someone else's name or image to put them down in my put.

1:16:49Of course, ever. Of course. You know, I've been able to talk with a lot of content creators and it doesn't make people happier. I think life has probably always had ways to throw your integrity out. Yeah. And apparently win more. Yeah. Maybe that will always be the case. Yeah. I think are you trying to win today on paper or are you trying to like win for real long term? And I think it's like if you cheated a game, did you win the game? Exactly. I don't know. I don't know if that's right. What are you playing for? Exactly. Like that's, yeah. So I think there's got, you know, I think if people are going to be on social media, they have to have a purpose for doing it.

1:17:27That has to be about trying to help other people because if it's not about helping other people, then I just feel like it can be a slippery slope. If it's for the personal game. I'm sure there are plenty of politicians that they are just feel the need to help other people and they've probably kept their integrity in better than people who are like, I would really like to be in that position of power for my own game. Yeah. So what's the best way if I want to learn your teachings? Yeah. What would you say is the very best way to do it? Well, if you're on X or YouTube or Instagram that needs over to this guy, yep, every week I work to make it as frictionless as possible for you to learn everything I know.

1:18:09If I was starting from scratch, I get the same content. But can I start anywhere? Or I have to like go back a couple of years. What do you recommend? You can just start writing. I take extensive time to re -show regressions. So you're getting context. You're seeing how to start. And if someone likes to just grab a book, kneeability zero is cheap on Amazon. And that would be like a good place to start. But it's not like there's some like secrets in there that are not on social media posts. Yeah. So you know, that is what I work for. Like I do work for the social medias to be something that anyone new could open up and get a good idea.

1:18:49I try not to make redundant content, meaning like if I need to update something, I'll take something down from the past, even if I had a lot of views, if I could teach it a little bit better. That's great. Yeah, so that when you go to the page, it's like, if you're... It'll have the up to date information. Yeah, that's great. The idea is if you watch a few, like you're already like getting with it, that's what I try to do at least. Great. What product do you make besides the backwards treadmill? And there's the shoes. ATG equipment .com is really everything I use. All the equipment I use, all the unusual stuff, always working on stuff.

1:19:26So it's like you have the data, but to be able to apply the data, gyms are not necessarily set up this style. So a lot of people are like, hey, I want to make my own home little ATG gym, do all the knees over toes guy stuff. So working on everything. Tell me what all the pieces are. I mean, if you go from the ground up, you're pushing through the toes. So I make the backwards treadmill. Yep. And I make a sled. Oh, you make a sled now. Great. Yeah, so make a sled or a backwards treadmill. Is the sled wheels or... First model is the one that goes on turf. Actually. Yeah, those are the two that I've used the most.

1:20:00And then you have the bar for strengthening the tibialis muscle, the tibialis muscle. And then you have a slam board. A slam board is a very simple device that can make it easy to stretch or strengthen around your lower body. So would you do squats on the slam board? Squats to be something you can do. Training the calf muscles the other way around would be something you can do. Like toe raises? Yeah, yeah, or even toe touches but standing on the slant. I see. Most calf muscles are too tight just from the years of wearing regular shoes. Yes. And the heels being lifted. Yes. It's almost like the modern calf is like an inch too tight just from the footwear.

1:20:38And then my personal favorite product I call a mobility box because it makes it user friendly to do those ATG split squats. That's the one that for me is like whether you're young or whether you're old or like to me that's... That's the heart of the program for me is the ATG split squat. Yeah. But in a gym, like where's the mobility stuff? You walk into a gym, you usually have tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars of machines and like a paper thin yoga mat in the corner. Yeah. Mobility actually can be done a lot better like in a gym setting. So the mobility box is my personal favorite. And what is that?

1:21:13To explain what it is? It's like makes it really user friendly to raise the front foot anywhere from two to 24 inches with poles to bounce. Oh, right. Yeah, so like my mom, she would use a stairwell and do the ATG split squat. My dad just skipped it. Yeah. Just skipped the ATG split because it just wasn't user friendly. Yeah. Now they have that in the living room. Now he does it all the time. Loads it because it's user friendly. You can measure, you can see your flexibility progress, you can balance if you need, you can take the balance off. It's very simple. And then just more stuff like that, like there's more mobility.

1:21:44Like I really think so many people want to be more mobile. Yeah. But then the machinery is not really set up for it. That's great that you're making all this stuff. Thank you. Fun to keep creating.