Brianna Wiest

25:36No, no, no, I don't think that. It's just, it needs to change me first. It's the best way I can explain it. Until I've had the full completed experience with it. Mm -hmm. Until it's completely changed me for it's not done. Yeah, that's the proof of concept. If it's changed you, then it's got the potential to change someone else. The Year of the Limits Test. Yeah. One of my first writing mentors, just a songwriter. And she worked in Nashville for many years. And for her, she said, I always have to wait to hear the last note in my head. And then I can start. I thought that's intriguing. And it was something I really carried because it's not that you're actually envisioning every line, every chick, because you can't do that.

26:28To me, it's more, you have a grasp of the full concept. You understand what you are trying to communicate to the world. You see, you know where you're trying to go with this. You know what I mean? You're connected to a bigger bird's eye vision. And to me, that's how I operate a lot at the time. It's really, to me, it's not the last note. It's how will they feel when they get to the last page? That's what it is. When they get to the last page, what has changed, what is different, what physically feels different inside of them and them being the reader. If I don't have that yet, I don't have it yet.

27:08You described the feeling of looking at older pieces, you've written and saying, oh, you know what she's getting at. But it may not be there yet. Do you ever read something that you wrote and be surprised with the wisdom in it? Yeah. I don't know if I'll have to say that. You know what I'm saying? It's an amazing thing because it really is a magical process. Yeah. I think it's because it's not really coming from us. You know, it's like we're lucky to be in the vicinity. That's right. No. We put ourselves in the way. But there's some else happening. We put ourselves in the way. Exactly. You volunteer.

27:50Yeah. I say this about purpose all of the time. We think of it like an act or a vocation or an identity. It is life's way of asking for volunteers. It's like little bells that ring when life is asking for volunteers. Can someone write this? Can someone take care of this? Raise your hand. And you raise your hand. Exactly right. But the bells that you can hear tend to be the ones that you are uniquely equipped to respond to. You have, you know, the systems, the vessel, the experience that can do it in a very specific way. And you don't have to respond to it. But when you do, well, so begins really a journey of your life as well, because there's going to be a space between where you are and the completion of that.

28:38And so your purpose really becomes the person you become. And then this is the way that person does everything. That's your life and your legacy. And also, the thing you volunteered for gets completed. Every time I felt like I said yes to pay this in the next wave, the next chapter, the next book, the next, you know, it is coincided with I am saying okay to the next wave of my own growth and evolution as a person. I'm going to go there. I'm going to think this through. I'm going to expand. It's like I placed the anchor point outside of my perimeter of possibility. And so now I have to shatter that and open it even more.

29:20And then you kind of find its infinite.

29:26Go on with it forever. Tell me about the next book. Oh, the one for next year. Oh, yeah. So I had had this idea since I was like 19 and did not have a skill to bring it in. And God, I hope I did. Hope I do now. What does stage are you at? No, it's done. It's done. Congratulations. Thank you. It sounds like you've been cooking it for a long time. It's been cooking. Yeah, it's a percolating for a long time. But the actual writing when did you start? A few months. Well, it was like a year, but I took breaks. And now to me, the book writing process has taken on a little bit of a different way because it's now it's more like, you know, I'm kind of I'm living it and having the experience.

30:10And by the time I'm writing it down, it's like I already know what I'm going to say kind of. So this book I am, it's like the tape of contents is structured like read this one. Your heart is broken, read this one. So it's recipes. It's recipes. And I used to think back then, I wish there was like a little book I could pull out that was like, I used to call it an encyclopedia of feeling. And I actually had this idea from here. I was like, what if I called an encyclopedia of feeling and the book was all different feelings? And I could just say that didn't quite, you know, get there and that's fine.

30:46But it turned into this and I called the book, the life that's waiting. And I had a few different ways I was going to title it. But you know, on the other side of the life, you are forcing to work. Life you are holding together is the life that is waiting. When we let go of what is trying to pass, we can enter the next thing. That's really my whole point. Because really, you know, each piece is for these transition points and the discomfort and the fear of going through the transition points. And when we start to near, you know, turning the bend, that's when we tend to get on and on. And I find that people, I think, experience the most to stress during the transition points in their lives.

31:34And I can think of so many books and authors that I have picked up in transition points. They've talked me through. Or even in my own writing practice, I've talked myself through. There's a page in the mountain is you. And it says, your new life is going to cost you your old one. It's going to cost you your comfort zone, your sense of direction. It's going to cost you relationships and friends. It's going to cost you being liked and understood. But it doesn't matter because the people who are meant for you will meet you on the other side. You'll build a new comfort zone around the things that actually move you forward, set up being liked.

32:11It'll be loved, set up being understood. You'll be seen. All you will lose is what was built for a person you no longer are. Let it go. That's great. Thank you. I had to chant that back to my own self. You know, we're talking before about, we say yes to be a volunteer, right? Okay, I'm going to take this on. Right, I'm going to go through this growth process to be the being the vessel that can bring this, you know, into the physical. So much of that process to me is working through those fixed parts of our identity that are standing in the way. And those fixed parts are, I am not talented. I am not smart.

32:52People like me don't do things like this. No one will read this. No one will care. And it's like, it's very hard to move through them. And they are really kind of killing off the consciousness that's trying to come through.

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34:49Do you have any rituals you practice? A lot. Tell me. So since living near mountains or on mountains for the past few years, every morning, as soon as I wake up and this is sometimes before even the sun rises, I will go to the mountain top, literally. And only the hike will walk or sometimes it's too cold to just drive. And to me, that is where the noise is gone. Now here and I kind of get my plan for the day. My ideas. So one of the things sounds like quiet is important in that place. Yes. Is it the feeling of being on the mountain top or is it what you can see from the mountain top? It's both.

35:38It's both. It's it's being up there. But I think it's also like metaphorically the perspective, you know, the replacing things into the greater perspective. I think that's what it kind of like yokes out of me. And, you know, it's funny because it's not something I have to even encourage or kind of like discipline myself to do. It's so like I get up and I'm like, go. But when that's not possible, if I'm not there, I'm traveling, whatever. If I can manage meditation in the morning, every morning, even just five or 10 minutes, even if I could only get it in the shower. Seriously. And to get into my journal and, you know, sometimes I've found myself, you know, stuck in kind of patterns of, well, I need to write something amazing this morning, you know, and they'd blow my own mind this morning.

36:37And not always. And so I've kind of started all these little things I do. Like I come up with like a hundred ideas. And most of them are like terrible or repeat ideas. That's not the point. It's that I'm waking up the part of my brain that is thinking of ideas. And, you know, I did this years ago and I actually just picked it up again. So it's like, I got to get back to that. So I was looking back at the journals where I was just all these ideas. And I'm telling you said, if out of 170, nothing, but there are a few that I'm like, hey, there's something there. And to me, it's just getting that going.

37:14It's just getting those gears in motion. You might not get the good ones if you don't let the bad ones come through. That is exactly right. And that's the exact same thing with writing in general, where it's like, you know, there's, we're talking about the difference between when we're speaking and when we're writing. And you know, there seems to be like an inner resistance to one much more than the other. And it's like, right, because when you're writing, you kind of have some awareness that it will be or you want it to be for the audience. Right. And so then it's like when you're going into it, it's like, well, it needs to sound just the way it's going to present.

37:46It's like, but then you're trying to make your starting point, the end point, you're not really ever going to get there. I've kind of made a promise, quiet promise to myself, which is when we're writing, you can say anything, you can do anything. This is a free space. We will go through a really critical cleanup and discernment process of what comes into a book or goes out to the world. So let it all out. That's exactly right. That's great. And it's about me getting to an internal place that feels safe and secure enough to actually get to the good stuff. Yeah. Open. Open. It's beautiful. When did you learn to meditate?

38:33Technically, I'm in big sir from a Zen meditation teacher. And that's where I learned that style. You know, it's the sit on the well, tough it. And we're just, you know, watching the thoughts pass like clouds. You know, so that I would say that was where I kind of formally learned. I don't know if this is right, but to me meditation takes on many different forms. Sure. To me, when I'm walking or driving to mountains in the morning, music in the car is meditation time. That to me is really brings me into a meditative state, honestly, kind of naturally. So that was when I learned it in a technically correct way.

39:11But before that, I think the real way I learned and got introduced to it was by the headspace app. I think it was like on the very first iPhone that I got this. I mean, I can't imagine what year this would have been long time ago. There's a little like orange. Yeah. It's a great app. You know, I'm talking about it. Of course. And I'm already downloading it. And at the time, this is very, you know, I didn't know anyone who meditative. Well, actually, it was summer between college and I was up in upstate New York, White Face Mountain. It's really beautiful. I forget the chance to go. And I was hiking.

39:50Remember sitting next to Lake. Can't remember the name of Lake. And I thought I would try this app. And I remember sitting there not really knowing what to do. And he was kind of funny. They sound weird. And I was born in the beginning. That was the humble beginnings of my meditation. Great. Those will be guided meditations, which are beautiful. That's right. Yeah. Can you remember some of the books that inspired you over the years in your seeking? Oh, yeah. And I'm such a broken record because I've been at speaking engagements where I was like, everyone get out your phone and buy the big leap by gay Hendrix.

40:33And I get off my manager's lane. It's great, but to sell your own book, girlfriend. That's how much I feel for this. The big leap by gay Hendrix. Please everyone. I mean, in that book, he talks about upper limits. He talks about his 25, 30 years of coaching. And how he said, you know, if I could distill every barrier, internal barrier, the people came up on into one concept I would call an upper limit, which is basically that the company grew too big for our inner functioning. The body was starting to experience more good feeling than it had the comfort and capacity to feel. And so we unconsciously self sabotaged back into a familiar baseline.

41:15I quoted him in the mountains, you. In that book, he also talks about Irrwellary Zone of Genius. And I wish he had called the book Zone of Genius. Or written, I think he actually did end up writing another one about this because I am glad he did. That we have our zone of genius, our zone of excellence, our zone of competence, and our zone of incompetence. And that the genius zone is that radical flow state. You know, where time is lost and we're doing something that is almost defying what is possible for who we are, where we are at. And that's where the real magic comes in. But to be able to access that zone requires us to not get caught under these upper limits and to stay in, you know, the familiar comfort of what we have known.

42:03And my interpretation of that, the words that I've placed to that is anything new, no matter how good is uncomfortable until just also familiar. It doesn't matter how good it is for you. And so we organize feelings into feels good and feels bad when it's really feels good, does good, feels bad, does bad is really probably more accurate. Big leap. Another book is Tiny Beautiful Things by Cheryl Strait. I love Cheryl. I think she is one of the greatest for generation. She's absolutely wonderful, wonderful lady. And the, if you ever read the Rumpus, it's another online magazine back in the day. But these were columns of hers when she was an anonymous advice columnist, your sugar.

42:54And where she brought these pieces is unbelievable. The divinity she brought to an online advice column. Something to which I could only aspire in my life to get anywhere close to Jack Keralax, the scripture of the golden eternity. Everything is ex to see inside. We just don't know up because of our thinking minds, but on our true blissful essence of mind, it has known that everything is alright forever and forever and forever. That piece really says, been very, very meaningful to me. And there were a number of other books throughout the years. The wisest one in the room. And would you say mostly read books that are self improvement?

43:45Or do you read other kinds of books as well? Mostly self improvement, but not because I'm like in the world. It was like, yes, so it's the other way around. You like that. And that's why you do that. That's what I'm saying. You're the reader. I was reading those. I was like 16. Yeah, you're not doing the research. No, like I'm just doing research for your work. You're doing the research for your life. So there was a period between 2013, 2017, where I would go to Barnes and Noble. And I didn't have enough money at the time to buy a book. So I would literally read every new release. And I would say to a little cafe and buy two dollar coffee.

44:24Which I don't think you're supposed to do. So I'm sorry if anyone's listening, but it works there. I don't do it anywhere else. But I was sit there and I would take a notebook and I would go through all the new releases and philosophies, psychology, business. I was just, listen, satiable. And I, you know, I would be alone. I'd be like, well, alone on Friday night, I'd be doing me three. I would just, I moved by this in a way that was, it was bigger than me. And there was definitely a moment when years into this. I were believing one night. It was really late and I was in the parking lot. It was dark.

44:58And I got a little jeep patriot. And I remember sitting in the driver's seat and thinking, I could write that. And that was the first time that really clicked in of, I could do that. And immediately it was not with, please. Like, back it up. Keep moving. But there was a part of you in a moment that recognized the possibility. Yes. And then it was for years this journey of, I'm not really special. You know, just like a random girl from Long Island. Hey, everybody's a random person from somewhere. That's all we are. That's what got me through it. I'm not kidding you. That's all we are. I started kind of reading about or listening to or looking into.

45:47I was like, well, who? Everyone I admire. Everyone I look up to, I think is so great. What were they all up to before they were doing the things I know them for? And they all have their own stories, of course. But it's like until you know them, you know, Mary Oliver is my favorite poet. And let's like, well, who was Mary Oliver before she was Mary Oliver? It's like, well, an aspiring poet, you know, she's a human being with her own life experiences. But it seems like I was looking for or waiting for. You know, something or someone to come along and say you, you know. And that never it wasn't coming.

46:25No, that's not how it works. Yeah. Are you always writing? Yeah.

46:37My notes up on my phone is the main medium. I was driving cross country earlier this year. And they was in Texas and I pulled over on the side of the road. Because I had an idea. The officer came up behind me. He's like, man, you know, like what's what's going on? I was like, officer, don't worry. I was like, I just had an inspired idea. I had to write a job. Man, it's looking at me like, oh, my God. I was like, oh, man, please, be safe. You can't do this. People. So like that. Yeah. But it's just always coming. You know, it's kind of like. This is a nice way to put it, but it's kind of like throw up.

47:12Yeah. When it comes on, I got to catch it. You know, I mean, it's like I got you got. Yeah, because the same one doesn't come back. Usually. It doesn't. And it's like, if I don't get it, those words in that moment, it passes me. And then I'm, I can't, I was like, what was that? I was trying to say. And when I'm really in it and I'm on it, it will come to me almost in completion. And it's, well, everything you read in a book, a post, whatever. 99 .9 % of the time it came out exactly like that with maybe a slight chromatical change here and there. But barely anything else.

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49:30How would you say your relationship to writing has changed from 2013 till now? I have less anxiety. I don't feel a need to prove something. I think I realized over time, whatever it was I was desiring of approval was it was imaginary. If it came in some way that I wanted to come it still didn't give me permission to be who I wanted to be. So less anxiety, less feeling and need to prove, and less even need or want to be. Good. I don't even know if that makes sense, but that really is how I feel. Yeah. Before I was so hung up on like this is got to be great. And how I think, oh, maybe sometimes it's not.

50:30And it's so. I used to think of like the readers as like a one mind. I noticed this over time where it was like when I'm judging something I'm like, oh, like this is how this would be perceived. And it's like people have such myriad experiences, you know, they could read a passage one day to the next and think something completely different about it, let along from person to person. You know, I mean it's an ink block test. I'm creating for them. You know, I mean, I have no idea what they're going to see in it. I don't know. I can't control that. But I was trying to control that at the beginning.

51:00I was doing this thing where it's like if you had a painting in a museum and you put your email address next to it. So I just describe it and said, okay, everyone give your feedback. And it's like everyone who viewed it emailed you and said, well, you should use this different color and painted this different way and use this different canvas. And eventually it would be fractured off into nothing. But that's what I was preemptively doing in my own mind before there was even a painting there. You see what I'm saying? Absolutely. Before it was even, I was criticizing it out of existence before it even existed.

51:37Yes. With the anticipation of what someone could think or what. Which you could not know, which I could never have. It's exactly right. And so it's like, so it's what's this projection that I'm coming at with this because how could I possibly know that? I would say if anything, I've been pleasantly surprised that I, you know, I've put something out and people say, yeah, I enjoyed that. I go, okay, that went better than I thought. And then I realized I wasn't working with the perception I was working from, you know, my own inner bandwidth of what I'm thinking you don't like that. I'm saying I don't like it.

52:17That's a really humbling place to be.

52:23And it's a very quiet place because it's like, okay, I have to come to terms with this doesn't move me yet. I don't feel great about this yet. And there's a lot of ego that gets wound in that. Well, what does this mean? Does mean I'm not good enough and I'm not talented. Can I not produce them? I'm not cut out for this. You know, we can really extrapolate. Take a snapshot of that and just go off with it. But I would say from the beginning of writing until now, how do that anymore? That sounds good. It's really good to me too. That's really the arena of that, that willingness to fail. And that's really where it's molded.

53:03Yeah. And now I am open to the process in a way that at the beginning, I was like, no, I've got everything to prove. And it's got to be perfect. Now I think if I had a real experience with it, it has moved me. And I had the courage to share that. You asked, do you ever look back and think, you know, that was wise. Those particular words wouldn't come, but something that I think somewhat often is, I was busy. That was courage. You were that young and wrote something that big. And put that out there. Over and over again. Yeah. That can I think. I mean, great. But wow. Yeah. How is becoming a successful writer different than you imagined it?

53:56Oh, gosh. I think at the beginning, I had a lot of fears about like scale or visibility that were irrational. And I found it to be more peaceful and more open than I ever could have dreamed. And I think that's because when we think about success. I mean, the success of integrity, or the success of integrity. I mean success in terms of being seen and appreciated. For the essence of what you've been doing all along. Or that I would be doing in an empty room, even if there was no audience. Which I did. Because I kept it there. I think that's why I feel peace. To where as I, I definitely have, you know, friends who.

54:53I think that they in an attempt to get somewhere, sacrifice some things. And then when they got there, it didn't feel so whole. And it felt. I would say a shame. Things we talk about a lot of this isn't what I wanted. This isn't right. How do I fix this now? And I feel at peace. I really do. People say, you know, what if the best is behind you? It's a great means I did the best thing I could do. And other things will have their own, you know, place and time and like the poetry books, you know. And they'll have their own moment and purpose. But I think it's important for me. Maybe for other people too, I don't know.

55:40To get to the end of each experience and say, if I died tomorrow, I'm okay. Yeah. Are you surprised by reactions to your work? Yeah. How does it feel? So real. And I think sometimes I can't quite process it. I would say it impacts people more than I could have anticipated or expected. And in a way that seems deeper and more authentic than I really know what to do with. I think that my best possible scenario was, oh, that wasn't bad. I kind of enjoyed that. Do you know what I mean? Like that. If I could get a few people there, oh, forget it. That would have been, you know, the end all be all. That's all I was trying to get to.

56:22Yeah. And to meet people. We do book signings already talked to people. I'm. You know, they really. I had some really intimate moments with people. Where. What I did seem to act as this container for them. And so even though what I was creating was very much about me when they were in it was, you know, it was completely almost for them. Yeah. And to see that my voice could be lent to those experiences. I think that sometimes I even probably resist fully metabolizing what that means because I don't want it to ruin me. It's too much. It's too much. And also I like being shocked. And I'm shocked all the time.

57:09But I like that. And I want to be shocked forever. So what was it like like this week? I was like, what? Madonna posted my poetry book. See, it always comes around. Oh, my God. And someone was like, I can't believe you're still like this. Getty. I was like, yeah, this is nuts. And then I realized I want to think it's nuts forever. I like that. I want to stay right here with them. Tell me about your relationship to social media. Good. Actually. How do you interact with it? I think a few years ago, I made a choice to be more particular about how much of my personal life I shared. And I think that made all the difference.

57:56And I think the reason I have a pretty positive experience with it is because I'm not bringing things to it. That can just become fodder in a way that I don't want them to be. And the way I thought about it back then was, you know, throughout the course of history, you know, there's. A writer could be a writer. And then maybe you would read a memoir or an interview. Maybe the description in the back of the book and you could learn more about them. Now I feel that there's an expectation. It's unspoken, but it's like anyone, you know, any kind of artist also has to kind of be like like an influencer or like a lifestyle.

58:32Do you know what I mean? Like it's like all the things have to go together. Yeah. And they really different skill sets completely. Yeah. I come. They're completely different skill sets. Yeah. And also I have a theory and I don't know if it's right, but. Kind of live by it anyway, which is that. I think you kind of only have 13 seconds of people's attention a week. And whatever you use those seconds on. It's like a budget. Got this many dollars to spend. Just know if you spent this on this. Well, then you're not going to have it for this. And so I feel like I've tried to be mindful about. So when you post you don't want to waste people's time.

59:13I really don't. I really don't. And I want it to be like, you know, OK, I've been working on this. And I would like you to care if it's possible. Or be interested. And I just think naturally, like, I think we. People can get fatigued. If it's too much. And you know, too much is very subjective. You know what I mean? So it's I think it's different for each person. I think that the person on the receiving end that's subjective for them to. But for me, I've just always tried to lead with value. Or what I guess I perceive to be value on. And I think that I've had a more positive experience with it over time because of that.

59:53Because I've just tried to go in and say, OK, here's what I'm up to and creating and doing. How often do you post? I used to do it once a week. And now I'm doing it more. A few times a week. Now on schedule or when you feel like. So it's been a mix because it used to be on schedule. I used to be really I used to do it Sunday morning is to be really committed to. This is my day. I get up. I do my thing. And now I've. Been working with my intuition a little bit more with it. Sometimes I want to have anything planned. I'll just be like, you feel like this. It's just what I want to do right now. And I will kind of just go with it.

1:00:32And. It feels good right now. Tell me about the. Nature of the posts. It's usually an excerpt from a book. And then some. An excerpt from New York books. Yeah. I'm on my. Or in some cases, just something I free wrote. And while I'll try to put it into a book later, usually because something. Usually I want to know what it's attached to. Sometimes it's nothing. But most of the time it's it's an. It's an excerpt. And then the caption will be quite long, which I didn't think people liked, but they actually love. I don't. It surprises me to believe me. If they're interested in what they're reading, they like to read more.

1:01:13Notice. At time and time again. There's a real. I think. Kind of mindfulness you have to bring to. How do I sum up. The essence of something big. And I'm trying to say in something so small. And. And it. Takes a lot of refinement. I also host the same things. Over and over again. That's an action that's something I learned from someone else because I thought it had to be. New every time. I'll give things a break. You know what I mean? Like I'll wait a few weeks, months, years, sometimes. Intriguing. But if I post something. It will pick up momentum each time. And it's almost like. Yeah, it's like the nature of the exposure to it.

1:01:56You know, I'm not. I think it's very important. Almost warms them up to it more. And they seem more open to it over time. And. If their reactions were mixed. At the beginning. They were. I just noticed they warm up over time and reading it again and again. But I'll say this too. This is just. Personal to me. But. I also think that. It's kind of a lot to digest, which is why I was kind of more. about it. I was like, it's kind of a lot to take in like all of the time. Yeah. Like a lot is just very saturated. So I was like, well, you know, once a week, maybe you can sit and have a meditative thought.

1:02:34But I released a book in 233 called The Pivot Year. It's basically just a book of little daily meditations because so many people said that they, and this is understandable, it's time to sit down with the whole nonfiction book. You know, you're busy. You know, I mean, like things are a hit. You're watching a commitment. It's, it's, it's a lot, you know, some of them, they can't fit it in, but what they could fit in was a few moments to get the essence of it. Yeah. And they really appreciated that. So I made it into that for them. How long do you typically write for a day? You say you're at every day.

1:03:07What's the rhythm? It's done after one to three hours. It's over. It's done. If I have to go back in because there's, you know, something happening or just a deadline that's really pressing, I just take a really big break between that. But that's about my time frame. After that, I'm foggy. I'm fatigued. It's not clear anymore. Do you work in a typical place? No, and I used to have a home office and I do not anymore. Did you choose not to or did the situation change? Chose. Very intentionally chose because what I realized was, you know, back many, many years ago when I said, you know, I'm going to be a writer and do the writing thing.

1:03:52It was an intentional choice that I didn't want a desk every day. I know that's weird. You know, writers like your desks, but I didn't want one. I just wanted to be able to go where I was going or be where I was. If I'm working on a book, I will bring a different places and right there because those environments will offer something to it. And I think that when I go back and look at certain books and I know where they were written and how I can feel that that came from there. And I try to lean into that. I will actually sometimes even write in my car, bring me a laptop and connect to my hotspot.

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1:06:08You mentioned before the ritual of going to the mountain top, but you said you had other rituals telling some of the other ones. Meditating was the other big one journaling. This one's simple, but a cup of coffee in the morning and a chair outside and quiet. Do you pray? All of my writing is a prayer. It's when it's not direct. Would you say it is a thread that runs through all of your work? Yeah, and what I hope that thread is is the reminder of who you are. I know when you read it, you might think it's a reminder of who I am, but it's who you are. How do you know if an idea is worthy of a book versus an article?

1:07:06Sometimes I'll test it as an article or as a post to gauge the interest. But usually I know it's a book if I kind of envision it as the concept of a book or think there's enough there that it could be a book. Sometimes the shorter stuff it's like kind of said and done quickly. But the mountain is you, for example, there was also a little bit of just realizing. How much I struggled with self sabotage? How much everyone around me, even if they didn't call it that, was talking about basically that. And that there wasn't there was kind of a market cap, you know, I mean, I was like, I don't really know of them.

1:07:52Some books touch on it. I don't think I've ever really come across a book that was like really just about that. And another measure that I will use just for anything being ready is have five people in my life independent of one another. Talk to me about that thing. And once I hear it five times is the number. Yeah. I know that it is something. The universe is giving you a message. And the self sabotage was clear. So I got to know is talking about this. No ways, no, like in their own pockets and all separate from one another. But it's coming up in different. And I said, okay. But then it's also just, you know, the vehicle of what brings the words to them.

1:08:39I'm very open with and adaptable with. But I know sounds funny from the person who just confessed to like micro editing. Pica's on a cover. So I understand. But it's like the pivot your thing. It's like they communicated to me clearly that they enjoyed reading a small piece each day. And I said, great. Ask and you shall receive. If you want a daily devotional, I will give that to you. The words in it. It was what I was doing. You know what I mean internally either way. But it's like how it's accessing you are coming to you. I really take the cue from them or what I'm seeing around me or what I just think or feel would be a really strong concept.

1:09:18But there's a lot of testing. Even if I just post a story of something and I'll just notice how do people care? Is it hitting something? Are you getting responses saying, oh, wow. Thing they say more than anything. I feel like you wrote this for me. I feel like this was personally for me. And that's usually a good indicator. Tell me where you think the ideas come from. A big collective crowd of ideas. And I. When I'm talking about going to the mountain or whatever else is part of my routine, the other thing that I will talk about. Literally, my just in my day to day personal life is the antenna needs to be quiet so the antenna can go out.

1:10:12And I will get very overwhelmed. I really do. When I'm trying to write if or do too much if I'm in a very busy city or something. I mean, nervousness will really get very, very overwhelmed. It will really affect my wellness. Because it is a lot of effort to keep the antenna where I need it without the cross and reference coming through. So you're protective of your space and surroundings. If I need to have clarity in what I'm creating, I can't have too much noise. I mean, like, you know, within reason, like I've definitely written parts of books in New York City. You know what I mean? It's like that it's not that it never happens.

1:10:48It's just, you know, when I was working at home and did have a desk at home. I was at a time when I was a space was very, very, very minimalistic. I had like a desk and a plant. And it's like because it's not about it even just being physically quiet. It's about the environment being quiet. When the environment's quiet, I can, you know, kind of track what I'm saying better. No distractions in the room. No distractions in the room or around. Whenever it's possible, it's not always possible. So I think that there's also something to be said for being able to hold that space internally. You know, we're here and this is life.

1:11:25It's earth. You know, I mean, we can't always go to the mecca to do the work. Ideally, yes, but not always. So that's what I did. It was to carve out those spaces. I used to write at night a lot. It was just a candle. And it wasn't even about it, you know, being the ambiance. It was really that I couldn't see anything else. I couldn't get distracted by other things. It had to stay on task. What do you spend time doing outside of your work? Traveling. Spending time with my family and friends. Throwing dinner parties whenever I come. Love a dinner party. That's, you know what, you want to talk about the real past of my life as a table scape, but people don't know that about me.

1:12:12It's a real art to the candles and the wild flowers on there. You know what I mean? Yeah. Then you got to sit out there for a long time. Yeah. You have wine going. It's a whole thing. What's the right number of people for a dinner party? 68. More than that's too many. The sweet spot. No, it can be more than that. And it could be less. It's really magic. Six to eight is what you're in for. Really nice sweet spot. Yeah. And it's fun when you know I've done this sometimes when I've kind of invited, you know, strangers or complete strangers, but you know a friend of a friend. Or someone I know in the area of saying come over.

1:12:50It's kind of like a, you know, just drinks to meet other. I think I did it like when my age, you know, that we're living in the area. And to see the even the friendships outside of just me and them that sprout from there and the connections. And then the things that happened after that way they end up someone works with someone. It's really beautiful. Watch it happen. And I really enjoy and I find a lot of happiness in being the one to bring that together and connect people when I can. Thanks. Do you keep a diary? Yes, just my journal though. So it's funny because it's a it's a mix of like, you know, your new life's going to cost your old one and then like my grocery list.

1:13:37But I think that's like, I think that's a really accurate depiction of like, you know, what my life is like at this time. You know, it's like, oh, what I have to pack for this trip and then these chapters and then the phone number for this and try not to be too precious. So it's in everything. Yeah, I try not to be too precious about it. Would it be a page a day or more or less? Oh, it really depends. If you pages a day would be perfect. Doesn't that work? But that doesn't that notes app is a I couldn't even tell you what's in there. Oh, you know what actually do you refer back to it? I just found like a day ago this poem that I wrote.

1:14:22Didn't go anywhere for it. So I found this I wrote this years ago. One day I will be the breeze that blows across the cabin window. I will be the little flower that grows and grows. I will be the bird with no home for home as an uncaged state. No, we're in everywhere. One, one, one. I will inhale and all of life will occur to me. I will be rootless, but in the essence of the root itself, I will be free. I will be free.

1:14:52Beautiful. I just found that from years ago. So nice. Where did that even come from? Beyond. Yes. When did you start keeping the journal? Late teens had a therapist, deep feeler, very sensitive, and then a therapist who encouraged me to use it as a way to really just express. So it was kind of the beginning. What I noticed was what I was expressing was like, I don't know, various forms of dissatisfaction, or it was kind of almost like I was illustrating whatever English I was in more dramatically. And rather than it being a tool for expression, I almost felt like it was magnifying what I didn't want to be experiencing.

1:15:53But that brought me into, you know, I remember, I literally still have the book. I thought, what if I try as an experiment to journal one of two ways, one to organize my feelings, but not to illustrate them further, just organize? But what if I tried to journal and narrate what I want to be true? Yeah. That was the turning point of alchemizing the experience. They ended up becoming affirmations instead of complaints. That's right. And it was just a perspective shift, really. Yeah, same story, just from a different point of view. Yes. Like you're either seeing an ending or in it a new beginning.

1:16:43You're either seeing a storm that disrupted you or came to clear the way, clear your vision, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. So it's like no matter what is in front of you, your choice is in how you approach and how you interpret. But I find that I think for a lot of people, the ability to narrate it differently, where they don't even know that that's possible. They don't even know that they could tell a story differently. They don't know that there even is another way to look at it. It seems fixed, just like those fixed parts of our identity that can't move, you know? It sounds like a little book for you to write.

1:17:18Just what you're describing. Coming out in 2027.

1:17:28It's these fixed parts of us that when we alchemize, we realize actually they weren't fixed at all. And in a lot of cases, they were the catalyst for us to change in a way that we probably never could have before. I just heard this like a day ago. It was like thank you. Say thank you to the problem. Thank you for inspiring me to be greater than I ever could have been if you were not here. Thank you. To say thank you to what is broken, what hurts, what is wrong. That feels huge to me. But it also feels like this place that I know that I feel, which is that very humble place. There's no ego in the room there.

1:18:16So you're really at center. I think it's hard for a lot of people to get to. It's hard for me to get to. How are you lucky enough to go to therapy at such a young age? A supportive parent. And the counseling program at college. Did many of your friends go for therapy? No.

1:18:42No. Well, and it's certainly not that we would have talked about much. Was it rooted in a particular issue you wanted to talk about? It was one of a general feeling. It was the anxiety and everything else that seemed to color whatever I was going through. But what I think now being an adult looking back just stemmed from being more sensitive and intuitive really. But not. You felt things that other people didn't feel? Yeah, or at a level that they weren't felt. And so that capacity, I could either use that for my own self -destruction. That's the same thing that makes all the rest of this stuff happen.

1:19:27So it's like, I don't want to kill off that part of me. I don't want to heal that out of me. I'm not trying to change that. It's actually just that I'm trying to shift. You know, how I know how to handle it or what I do with it. And when I was younger, I had this feeling like it was only ever me. I was the only one who was thinking this way or feeling this way or going through something. And now being older, I feel and I know, I don't think I'm alone at all. And anything, I really don't. And even if, you know, the exact experience that you had is completely unique to you, we are all still working with kind of the same color palette of feelings.

1:20:15And so, yes, we are all individuals. But the processing capacity to understand ourselves and what's happening around us. You know, we're working with the same resources internally, you know what I'm saying? So it's like, there's a resonance. It's like, well, I might have not walked what you've walked. But I know anger because I felt it so I can understand you having anger. And I don't think anything in my life has soothed me more than knowing how not alone I am from receiving messages and meeting so many people who say, oh, I felt that exact same way. I feel like you're writing this for me. I feel like, I'm like, wow, because the deeper I went, the more authentic and real that I was with it, the more raw, the wider outline.

1:21:11I thought that's intriguing. And I noticed that when I didn't go as deep, didn't go as wide, you know, it's also very much about the vehicle of how it's like the poetry book thing. You know what I mean? It's like, I went very deep with that. But the way in which it was put together, you know, that's only going to be from people probably are going to pick that up unless they like that form of writing to begin with. So it's not like the universal measure. It's just to say that when I had the courage to say, I feel this way sometimes. I was amazed by how many other people in the world said, I feel that too, even though I'm nothing like you.

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1:22:51A plan entering, experience the artwork of the day, take a breath and see where you are drawn.

1:23:17How important are the people you surround yourself with? Oh, everything. So important. Oh my gosh, I probably couldn't over -stage enough. I think that the adage of we are like the five people we intentionally choose to spend the most time with is profoundly true, because I think that we unconsciously adapt a similite to what and who is around us. And, you know, one of the gifts of social media is that you can bring your expanders and your muses and your mentors close to you, even if they can't be in direct proximity of you. That's not something we ever could have done before. So I think that it's like even if in your day to day life, there don't always have the people around you that you would want to be.

1:24:13I really, really feel the gift to be able to connect or have them in your day to day experience. So I would say that even around me physically, but it's also like a greater network. That's I feel very much a part of. I think we all are. I think it's an asset that we should lean into. Do you think you connect with more people with your books or with social media? Good question. Social media, I would say. Probably not even a competition really. I think there's something interesting about kind of being able to just track where a post is like you put out there would go. Really, the corners you would never expect.

1:24:59Whereas you'd have to be interested in this to begin with to pick this up. Do you know what I mean? Like, it probably wouldn't occur to you to pick this up if you weren't already in this genre. Someone. You probably wouldn't even know about it. You wouldn't. And then you wouldn't be interested. But then to have the potential to be exposed to something where it makes you think or feel anything like, never would have read something up for it. But maybe I will now. And I was just talking about this this morning actually to someone. It was a really intentional choice of, or I tried to put a lot of intention into it rather.

1:25:40Of how to title the books and how to like style them. You know, I think that sometimes reading books that are for you can feel kind of like a confession of weakness when you're like out and holding it in your hand. Like, you know, like I, like I'm already having a hard time. I don't need everyone to see me reading, you know, like relationships for dummies. You know. I think that. Something I wanted. My readers to feel was like an empowerment of, you know, I'm reading this because I'm committed to myself. I'm reading this because I want to go inward. I'm reading this because I want to reflect. Like I wanted it to be a positive experience.

1:26:27Because I felt that in the books that I've loved so much. I'm, you know, proud to tell the world about them because I love them. And I am grateful to myself for being willing to go there and look at these things and heal and grow and change. And I think it's, and it's got to stigma, you know, it's had for so many years. But it's time to be done with it. Tell me about communication in relationship. You need more of it than you think you do. In every area of your life. You have to state the obvious more than you think you do. And no matter who you're talking to or who you're working with, it doesn't matter at home at work.

1:27:18That's cool. It doesn't matter. To be able to communicate with an emotional charge is what creates. I think strong relationships. And even to communicate your own ideas in a clear way without charge is what effectiveness is to me. And whenever I'm around someone who is really accomplished and whatever it is they do, I notice that they have this kind of essence to them. It's a slow breath. There's a presence and there's an ability to stay with something and see it through and to be logical and to respond, not react. And it's something that I've had to work on because I think that I'm by nature, as I've said, you know, you're sensitive.

1:28:10I think it can be your instinct to just react, right? Everything is scary. Everything is overwhelming. And to just pause. And to just notice. Oh, that shortened my breath. That made my heart rate go up. That led me into this line of thinking. Is that true? Is that real? And then rather than following those things, you know, because I think a lot of time they can just lead you into the spiral. And not the good one. Not the good one. To be able to just witness and observe them and communicate to your own self. This is what I'm thinking. This is how I feel about it. I don't prefer this. I'd rather have that.

1:28:53I'm having this stop, but it might be, you know, a logical. I try to bring that into work, love, home, whatever it is to communicate. And I find that people tend to fear communication, but also when they're on the receiving end of it, appreciate it. When you're even just expressing, I notice this all the time, when you tell someone that you love, oh, I really love this thing, or I really love oranges. You notice that they really find a happiness and, you know, coming up from the store, they're like, I got oranges and they're like, wow, this is across the board. Of when you have an openness to communicate, you know, like that, it's so well met.

1:29:34And I think that part of the reason we fear communication or resist it a lot of the time is because we associate it with having the emotional charge. And that it has to be combative or it has to be like a conflict, or that we don't communicate until it is a conflict. And then we have to figure it out rather than working with it all along. But I think it's also taking down the barrier of I'm afraid to say the wrong thing to you. I'm afraid that I will sound stupid. I'm afraid that this is too vulnerable. And I think that with the people who really care about you enough to build a relationship with you, they're willing to meet you in those moments too, and not judge you, but just be there with you and work from there.

1:30:24But I think that as soon as communication is out, things kind of have a way of dying off. Yeah. Have you had any mentors? Oh, many. Tell me. Oh, so many. And I've had them in different ways. Some of the people that have mentored me the most have done so without knowing that they were. And some of the people who have probably had the most massive impact on my life and work, probably would never believe that they had that much of an impact. I said, there's a new thought. I never thought of this before, by the way. Like in this moment, I'm telling you, this is brand new, but I'm realizing as I'm saying it out loud right now.

1:31:09It was them and braving their own wilderness and building their lives out of their unknown that mentored me by proximity. And often it is even the people closest to me that I even work with or right with. And just watching them, it's not even that it's exactly what I'm going through or exactly what I'm doing. But it's watching them develop their capacity to respond to what is being brought to them. I've talked about Cheryl Strayed before. What I loved most about that book, tiny beautiful things, is I really feel like she taught me to think the way she wrote. And the way that she wrote to me was with such a profound amount of compassion and presence and beauty.

1:32:03And you know, you could read three paragraphs that woman writes. And you could start with, you know, I'm completely stuck. Okay, there's nowhere else for me to take this from you to go. You get to the end of that and you're like, oh, the world's my oyster. That's how much power and shift that she brings into her work. You know, I've sent her messages. I have a signed copy of her book at my house, like a little fan girl. But I don't think she could even know or fully understand the magnitude of what she has given me. And it's funny because I've, you know, I always think of my mentors as my very literal, you know, people I meet with.

1:32:44In this moment I'm realizing it's been, I don't know, dozens, hundreds of people that have inspired me and moved me in so many different ways. How do you know you wrote something and you like it? It makes sense. But it's not that it follows like a logical means to an end. It's just intuitive. It's almost as a ring to it. There's a lightness in my body and there's a clearness and there's a coherency. I guess it's exactly what I was trying to say. It's almost like it was effective. It feels effective. Do you have a relationship to a higher power? I do. I don't know that I call it anything. Nature.

1:33:35But I think that everything is a little tiny particle of the one whole thing. And I think that when we remember the one day whole thing, that's when we are kind of magically able to come up with the stuff right? Just kind of a remembering what it once was where we once were. Do you set goals for yourself? Maybe not fixed goals, but plans and intentions. I really think that planning for the future is a really important part of the process. And I think it's also a very important part of actually mental health, if I can even say. I think it's really important to have something to work toward and something to look forward to.

1:34:30And I think sometimes if you are waiting for someone or something else to come along and give you that end goal, you can end up in these kind of ways if you're like, well, where am I going next? And it's like, well, it's not about a linear trajectory from one place to the next. It's just, you know, what do you want to build here? But I think that having, you know, an intention of, you know, well, by next year, I would like to be doing this or in five years, I would like to be doing this while still being flexible enough to let life take you where it wants to take you, let life tell you how. That's the magic.

1:35:06That's where it happens. Okay, that's where the whole thing goes. And it's not a goal setting in terms of, you know, they need to sell this many books by this year. It's not that. It's more. I've had this book idea since I was 19 next year is the year we do this thing. Or I've always wanted to go to Japan. It's not planned yet. But it needs, it's going to be planned. Something like that. Have you been around other places around the world with your books? Yeah, Italy. How's that? Italy a lot. I don't want to say it's book. A lot of it was written. I was in Rome. I went to Rome by myself for a month.

1:35:54It was really young. A little flat. And I saw a lot, but I really just sat at that window and wrote. It was a really, really special experience for me. And I have gone back many times because of that. It just feels like this connection to something, you know, my, well, my mom said I grew up on, on Italian, but it feels intuitively to me, like a connection to something ancestral, something older. I feel very held very, very at home. Tell me something you believe now that you didn't believe when you were young.

1:36:41Can go the opposite way to or something you don't believe now that you used to believe when you were young, the feed preferred. When I was younger, I really felt that everyone has the capacity and connection in them, you know, to pursue whatever their creative dreams are in that really that anyone could write. And while in essence, I still believe that's true, time has showed me that very, very few people will. And I hope that it's more as we all, you know, open ourselves with the years and then, you know, and the evolution of collective, but I think that I was a little bit naive about how courageous people would be to withstand discomfort and to willingly evolve and change.

1:37:41And I've noticed over time that more often or most often, they will wait until not changing is the less comfortable option. And then they will instead of being called, be pushed. I still hope for that to shift. I've just noticed that all the people I knew and you know, that had all these dreams and how many of them put them down and didn't pick them back up really surprised me, really surprised me. Anything else you want to talk about? Yeah. It's something that's been on the top of my mind for weeks. Want, wanting. Drew in my journal, a picture to try to illustrate this because I'm really fascinated by it right now.

1:38:33It's like so many of us can get into the state of deeply, deeply wanting something, whether it's something to work out or a relationship or work whatever. And I've noticed that something really peculiar happens when we are in a state of deep wanting. It almost creates this vortex or void of not having that becomes so strong that when an element of what we want or even the exact thing we want approaches, it almost gets boomeranged off. We almost push it away because we are so strongly in this vortex of not having, which is creating the feeling of want. And the more I sat with this and just thought of even the people around me who you know, it's like we want XYZ so badly and it's like all the opportunities for such would be right here.

1:39:33It's like they're almost getting thwarted off. It's just fascinating to watch and it didn't feel to me like self -sabotage. It felt like it couldn't even get close enough to be self -sabotage yet. It's almost just like getting pushed out of this void. And you know, in the drawing, when I cross through the void of what gets us out of the void and it's like that void is really neutralized by two things. One, realizing all the ways in which you do already have that thing. And number two, if you cannot come up with any ways in which you have had or do you have it, stories of people you know or you don't know who do have it or did make it possible or it was the reality.

1:40:19And I think a lot of the time the people we think of as our muses are people who are more fully actualized in the element of ourselves that we are struggling to express. And so it's not them who we are really idolizing. It's actually the part of ourselves that wants to use them as a mirror to encourage it out. So it's been on my mind. It's the state of abundance instead of the state of lack. And you know if there's something you really want and when you finally give up it's often what the time when it shows up. And why? Because you've neutralized that vortex because you've you've moved out of not having into just being.

1:41:10And then in being you already have. Yeah, it's really intriguing. And I think that when we're talking about the fixed pieces of our identities that get us stuck, you know, I am not talented. Well, just under that is I want to be enough. I want talent. I want ability skill. Right. And it's like you're either going to be unconsciously collecting evidence that you are or aren't one of these things. And I think the brain is like a child in that you kind of have to give it a job. Kind of have to put it to work. It needs something to do. You need to tell it. I need you to collect all of the ways in which this could be possible.

1:41:59And it needs you to be working on that 24 seven because if you don't put it to work, it will kind of turn inward on you. So other than the one to three hours of sitting and writing that you do, would you say you're working all the time? Yeah. Because I think that I'm always working on my cheesy, but myself as a human being, I really am in every experience. And it's it's that. That writes the book later.