Chris Chelios

21:06Yeah. Maybe my brain's telling me you don't want to get punched in the head that much. So yeah, I never thought of it that way. But all I do is hit a bag and gotten shape. And when I got in a fight, I just wanted to punch as long as I possibly could. That's all no tactic. No nothing just wide open. And then you start getting smart because you can't trade off with guys that are big. And I took some boxing lessons and I got just good enough. But then I go to college for two years and there's no fighting allowed in college. So I kind of lost it going into pro, but it comes back quick. Like when you're facing someone with no gloves on, you're going to want to get hit in the goddamn nose again.

21:41Do you take your gloves off in a fight? Automatic. Really? It's a, it's the honorable thing to do. Sometimes you know, guys wear shields like if you're honorable, you take your mask off. So it's open season on, you know, your head basically. I love the idea that you took boxing lessons for hockey. Yep. A lot of guys did, especially tough guys, but you know, one thing that you don't realize, like boxes don't have shirts on right? So there's nothing to grab in hockey. You can grab a guy's sleeve and predominantly most guys are right handed. Unfortunately, if you pick the wrong arm when you go to grab it, you're going to get a left first one right in the face.

22:13But you learn and then you know where it gets around the league. Who's lefty? Who's righty? So there's a lot of, you don't want to get punched without a glove on it. It hurts. Like trust me, how much does fear and intimidation play into the game? I mean, like again, back to fear it and fight, I swear to God, Rick, I have blacked out during fights, not even knowing afterwards, just because of the fear factor, you know, that adrenaline rush. And it's hard to believe that sometimes you get so wild in the fight and you get so scared that you forget everything. And before you know it, the fights over, you're going, okay, you're feeling your face, you don't feel anything on your head.

22:48Okay, I'm okay. So, but yeah, and there's guys you just don't fight. There's sometimes when the score six, nothing, you know, there's no reason to fight, you know, sometimes you get in a fight early in a game to set the tone or, you know, send a message. But I was never a thinker. So I've gotten all kinds of trouble. The fighting was really to win or revenge. Those are the two. Honestly, most of the time revenge, whether you, someone hit one of your better players or basically for me, when I was playing at home in Chicago because that old stadium was real special, kind of like your studio here.

23:24And, you know, you just felt like you owed it to the fans. If you were down by three or four goals at home, I would just get in a fight in the last five minutes just for the hell of it. You know, just just to just a least of that cheer. Yeah, amazing. I hated losing fights at home, but I didn't lose too many at home. I picked the right guy or just kind of lucky. Did you, did you ever get booed? Oh, yeah. I was like the, any opposing rank, any where I went, I got booed. They hated me everywhere. I couldn't go out to bars, restaurants and those towns. Boston wouldn't dare go out and you were Philadelphia after I almost killed Brian.

23:57Prop that was, that was never what happened. What happened in that example when I in Philadelphia when I elbowed him. And like, I mean, he was knocked out before he hit the ice and to make things worse, he had his back of his head on the ice too. And I went to go visit him in the hospital because my house was like two blocks away in Montreal, but he wouldn't see me, right? I'm going, okay, whatever. But then, you know, 20 years later, I meet him at a funeral and he's telling him how to really bother him. So I go, look, I'm sorry. I know I know I, and we're good. I actually worked on his dad's farm in Moose Johnson.

24:27It's crazy in a circle. Small world. It is, but yeah, I just, that was me. Like I love getting under people's skin Vancouver. I wasn't allowed in Vancouver after what I did there after a game. I was picked first star and I bit, a big circle, which is kind of a no -no -you -take -a -victory lap. You only take the victory lap at home. I did it on the road and there are thrown bottles and cans and so yeah. But I, like I said, I deserved everything I got because I liked shoving it up their ass. You know, when, you know, they're trying to take my head off. And by the end of the game, I'm like, I can't wait to stick it to these guys.

24:59So, and I did it quite a bit, but I got, you know, I was on the shore. I ended it a lot too. Would fights ever continue from the game into, you know, if you ran into someone after the game, was that bad? Yeah, you know what? Quite honestly, it's a common knowledge that two hockey players get to fight. And if they ran into each other in a bar after they drank beers together, or they just flout and hate each other and turn around the other way and can't stand them. Now, there's only a couple guys over the course of my career. Cam Neely, who I'm good friends with now, but there was a guy named Dale Hunter and I swear he had the eyes of the devil.

25:32And he was a good player and he gets to spend it all time. But he was, he scared the shit out of me when I was on the ice. I just made sure I was aware when he was like, he got me twice, blew up my knee twice from behind. But this guy was, like, he might have been hated more than me. Wow. And you just got to be aware of guys like that. But push comes a shove. Hockey players are great guys. So if you run into someone, even when you're like on all star bicks, if you're in Florida and you see one of your worst enemies, you're going to go up and start drinking with them and have a beer with him and his girlfriend or wife.

26:02And that's, it's just been the way it has been forever for hockey. And because everyone knows that's the game. It's like what happens in the game, happens in the game, and it's about winning. And you do it. It takes to win. And everyone does it. Right. Does it? To some degree or another. Right. There's very few guys who can't separate it in the league. And they're always going to like any other group athletes or, you know, businesses. You're going to have that odd guy who's just an absolute douche, right? So, but not so much at hockey because again, it wouldn't be allowed in the room. It seems like it would rude itself out.

26:30Yes. If there's a understanding between the players of a culture. Right. It's in the culture. If you're not following the rules of the culture, Yes. You'll probably get pushed out of the culture. Yeah. And the only thing that's changed a little bit is because of the euros. You know, now with all the Europeans coming over, the cultures change a little bit as opposed to a more physical, aggressive game. Now they're creating an offensive skill game. They, I guess they figure it's better for the viewers. You know, that's why smaller players can play now. They've any, all the rules they've changed benefit the forwards and offensive skills.

27:03Defense minutes, it's tough. That's why you really have to know how to skate to play in this league as a defense. From the, from the beginning of when you played until now, what have been all of the rule changes in order from the beginning? Well, like I said, the biggest have been stick infractions. You cannot hold anybody up with your stick, which is a big deal at any time on the ice. Because that would slow down a fight. It stops everything. It stops me. Not necessarily the fight. It's basically like if someone wants to go up to ice and join them. If you hook them and stop them, their momentum's changed.

27:35You just go right by them. Now you're in front of them. So it just hooking is the one and interference. Like like in basketball, you're allowed to throw a pick. People getting hurt, hooking. Nope. Don't get hurt. So why did they change that rule? Because it was such a disadvantage for offensive players. It's just real guy in with your stick. It's, it is a, it, they shouldn't allow hooking. It just, and then interference somewhat like basketball where they throw picks. You can't do that in hockey either. Like that's, that was a big thing. The slow guys down like let's say they dumped the puck into the, into the zone.

28:06When a defense is going back to get the puck so you can protect them. One of the forwards are getting front of theirs and slow them down. Now you can't do that. So it's open season on defense. When they just come full speed and run them. And that's, that's why more and more guys are getting hurt. That's amazing. Yeah, you can't interfere anymore to protect your players. And that's a bad thing. You should be able to know, get in front. As long as you're moving your feet, it should be okay. If you're standing still and, and really interfering, then it should be a two minute penalty. But like I said, as a defenseman, it's, it's no advantage to play in this league.

28:37And for the Olympics, you play on the American team. And there's a Canadian team as well. Yes. Yep. And all the countries and like that's, the American Canadian rivalry has been built up because the Americans have finally caught up at the end of the day, though, when it comes for the big game, Canada always seems to rise and they got that swagger. But it's the culture. It's like it seems like it's been in their culture forever. Yep. And it's newer like you're, you're really the beginning of it in some ways. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't, an 80 team, the 90, the 80 team, that paved the way for Americans.

29:09No one was looking at American players. But once that 80 team won the gold medal, there's only a handful of guys that really made it to the NHL. Mark Johnson being one of them, the defenseman who won four cups for, for the islanders, a debut Christian, the broadens. But that paved the way for our group of guys. We had more guys make it. They were starting to look at more college players because at that point, the 80 team was all amateurs. So, but yeah, our rivalry with Canada is a second and none. It used to be Canada, Russia, but now we've caught them. And, but it's good. It's great for hockey, the world cups like, you know, we still have the only bragging rights for beaten Canada in 96 for the world cup, which is kind of a big thing for the Americans because we've never beat them in any other tournaments, you know, other than the 1980 Olympics.

29:53What was the history of the Stanley Cup? What do you know about Stanley Cup? I mean, I didn't know anything about it until I got to Montreal, and I see the 22 banners up there. I'm going, Jesus Christ, these guys, they were in kidding. It's like the New York Yankees of Canada. And like I said, to be drinking with, you know, Henry Rechard and John Belivo and these guys were all still around in the search of VARGs. You learned quick about that. The fans were so knowledgeable about the game. If you missed a pass or you made a bad play, they would boo you. Didn't matter if you're in first place, they'd boo you.

30:26Like they were so critical to fans. And then you had the whole English American French thing where the Quebec was actually trying to separate from Canada. And I get caught in the middle of that, you know, the French media is ripping me, the US media or American or English papers are trying to stick up for me. And I got caught up in all that. It was insane. So I literally got traded at one point because of that. And we won the Stanley Cup in 86. They traded seven Americans because the headlines were no longer a French traditional team. There goes six American players over the summer. Wow. So it was a big thing.

31:00And I didn't understand it going into it. But at the end of the day, now they're probably wishing that they didn't do that because 91 was the last time any Canadian teams won the Stanley Cup. Wow. And they would die at, you know, American, English, French, Canadian, European, they should have not, you know, but they didn't know any better. You know, there was politics. Amazing. Yeah. So you've won three. Three cups. One with a Montreal and I said, geez, second year in. I'm going to win a bunch of these cups. Well, you did three is a bunch. Three is, I know I compared other guys that never get to touch it or like Ray Bork, one of the greatest ever one time, you know, some guys never win it.

31:39They're whole Dan Marino is a great example. Jim Kelly would happen to him in the, in the Super Bowl. So it took me 17 years to win another one, but I sure appreciated it in Detroit. We had, I think, 11 Hall of Famers on that team. So it would have been a huge disappointment not to win with that team. And then 2006, we won it again. I wasn't such an impact player or relevant, but I still got to play in a handful of games in the files. And at the end of the day, you're still part of a team that wins and there's a lot of people. Absolutely. Yeah, a lot of people, a lot that goes into a team that wins both on the ice and off the ice.

32:14And yeah, and at that age at 46, you know, these young kids and I'll still take experience over youth 90 % of the time, especially when it comes to the big games. And, and we had hockey, they're respectful. The kids listen. And when you got an older group in the room, it helps these guys a ton, you know, so they don't feel the pressure. And if they face adversity or they're struggling, that's where I came in. And then, you know, I think I played four games because the injury's during a plus. Well, thank God we won every game. And so I felt pretty good about that. You know, it's a good way to go out.

32:44And, you know, not necessarily because I felt I did something, but right. No, you were, you were useful on the team. Yeah. And you win. Yeah. If you win, it's good. That's it. That's all I cared. And, you know, that for me, it wasn't about the individual trophies right now. It was wins. And I think I want to say I got more wins than anybody in the playoffs. I also got more losses than anybody, but that's because I played in so many games than anybody. Is it fun to play even when you lose? Yeah. It's just fun. Yeah. And you play so many games, 82 games a year. The good thing is you lose a game.

33:16You know, I've lost sleep a couple times during the regular season, you know, over that. But the good thing is you're right back at it a day or two days later. And he just put it behind you. And that's why it's great that there's so many games. Playoff losses are much tougher, you know, especially when you're, you know, there's high expectations. You win. The president is trophy, you know, the best team in the league. And then you get knocked out first round. That president trophy means nothing. You know, so, but you look back and again, I don't say that the trophies don't mean anything. It's great for the goal tenders when you win those Jennings trophies.

33:47The best goalies in league for goals against. So as a defense, when you take a little pride, you have that when your, your goalies are winning individual trophies. That for me, you know, I've played in front of some of the defense. You're an extension of the goalie. Exactly. Yeah. And you can't, like some of the goalies, if you're winning three, one, I can go out there and try and score the fourth goal. But I'd rather try and protect the lead for the goal tenders goals against averages stay down in our goals against the stay down. And I had Patrick Erwa one of the greatest Eddie Belfort, Dominic Hasick.

34:15All these guys are Hall of Famers. And that part of the reason for my success too is the goal tenders that played behind me.

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35:58So the goal tenders are what makes a goal tender good is being able to predict where the puck's going to go because you can't see where it's going. You're spot on like guys like Dominic Cassak, I would say out of all these guys, he had that gift and ability of the puck's coming. He would see a stick you know in the slot 30 feet away and would put his blocker up just in case that stick was going to tip it. That's that's a gift he had of being able to had that vision. You know I always called it fighter pilot vision type of thing where you see everything around you. And that's what made the great ones.

36:34And like you said there's so much traffic and guys getting in front of you. But these guys just have a knack if you know let's say there's two guys in front of them. Well he just assumes the puck's not getting through them so he just comes over to the other side where the puck is coming. So it's a gift for sure like a rebounder like Dennis Rodman. Yeah. He had just that knack. He wasn't bigger than anybody but he had that sixth sense of always being in the right spot and always out rebound. And didn't matter if the guys four inches bigger, he ended up with the ball. Interesting. I got to interview Phil Jackson a couple of weeks ago which was incredible.

37:03Yeah. And we talked about Rodman a little bit. And it's funny because the way the press port trays him is crazy not a control. And what Phil was saying is he trained every day. He showed up in every game. He studied everything he needed to study. And none of the extra curricular stuff impacted his game in the least. Not at all. Zero. So in some ways if the idea is to play the game and win. And if he's excelling at the game. What does it matter if he goes out at night? They still care. Management still cares. Why? I don't know. But if you look at the in Detroit, he got in that trouble. That was something else.

37:46A personal thing that was. And then in San Antonio, he kind of went off the deep end. They didn't win. And then San Antonio was at San Antonio. Are they used to play one of the tech teams down there. He's an easy scapegoat. That's why most guys won't do that. If you win, you can do anything. You start losing. He's an easy man to win the finger. And he just came into a situation. And trust me, MJ, if he didn't think he was doing his job. But I think you watched that. I'm sure you watched that documentary. Yeah. He showed up every game. And some guys you say that you don't have the ability to just turn on and off.

38:20Dennis did. Yeah. And it didn't matter if he was out all night the night before. Somehow he woke up when the game started. Phil said when he found out that Dennis was available, Phil was trepidacious. And he went to Michael and Scotty. And they're like, if we could have that guy on our team, we want him. Because they hated when he was against them. Right. They hated him. Yep. He could drive me nuts. But if he could be on our team, we want that. Yep. No, he, he, like he against matched up against the big centers. I'll never forget I was at the Utah series. What he did to Malone, he drove Malone crazy.

39:00He's just like, I played the same way. I was an agitator and get under guy's skin. And I do that to my wife. I could do it to my best friend. I know how to get, you know, I like said, you're the most adoring, lovable person. Or like annoying, lovable person. I think one of our mutual friends called me that here in Malibu. But yeah, there's that's still an art too, along with his skill level to be able to get under guy's skin like that and throw them completely off their game. It's just impossible to ignore him. Like he's tapping you on the ass on the court and gamesmanship. I believe it's called games.

39:33And he'd never been in a fight. He's never thrown a punch, but he somehow, you know, he pisses everybody off. The only guys I've ever seen him hit was the cameraman. When he fell down and you know, he kicked the cameraman. But I mean, he's a lovable guy. He's got his issues like and we, you know, we invited him to, or he got invited to Michael's 60th birthday party. And Michael really wanted him to be there. He won. And of course, Dennis missed his flight. So, but he, that guy, like he said, I've watched him train. Didn't matter how many people he had waiting for him after the game. He was on the treadmill and doing his weights regardless.

40:07Yeah. And studying tape and like really. He thought about what he did. It was not, it was not accidental. And it wasn't just he had a lot of energy. He was, he was smart about his play and did his homework hard. Yep. He knew the game in and inside out and he knew his opponents, you know. Tell me about training in general. How, how, how was your training different than other hockey players from the time that you started? I was ahead of the curb for sure because back then, even the guys that were supposedly in the best shape. All they did was bench press and jog or stationary bike. That was it in the early 80s.

40:44And I met T .R. Goodman here out in Venice. And you mean him? Oh, through Gabby. No, no, actually I was in the gym training with Tony Danza, like he's the, the originator of the Malboom Ab, right? Tony's got me doing just curls and he's got all these big muscle head, you know, bodybuilder guy with him. And I looked across the gym and I saw this guy doing some circuit training with a rope. And I walked over and I say, my name is Chris Shelley. It was a kid, Alan May from the Washington capitals was T .R.'s first client. So I go, do you mind? I'd like to try this tomorrow. And I was hooked. And that was, and that was history from then.

41:17You know, I would be going and leaving the house of 545 and training with T .R. and he, and I was a loose cannon too. I wasn't Dennis Rodman, but I liked that fun. And, you know, I needed something to ground me and be real disciplined. And T .R. Goodman was perfect for me. You know, if I showed up, you like remotely smelling like a Bud Light, he would just give it to me. So for 2 .5 months of the summer here, I was religiously going to him. And it just, known in the league was doing it at the time. And I, my skating improved so much and my strength and endurance. And unfortunately, T .R. got so many clients that became, you know, known throughout, you know, the league.

41:55And then he was training guys like Rob Blake. Well, that's not an advantage anymore for me. I think it's a conflict. I was telling him and I got mad because he's 10 years younger Blakey. And then he wins the Norris trophy, which is the best defenseman league. And I'm like, that's not fair, T .R. So I wouldn't train with anybody else anymore. I wanted to go by myself and I said, you better show me something different than what we're doing. I needed another, you know, the edge. So, and he never did. He couldn't do it. But, but that's what it was. I was just ahead of the curb and, you know, and just that much better shape.

42:26And then you add Don and Laird into the mix. And, you know, I know you started doing the pool stuff with them. And what it did for you was amazing. So, I changed my life. I believed in it. You know, and I believed what Laird and Don was doing. I believe what T .R. is doing it. And a mental game of it, like I was into it. Yeah, let's talk about sauna because first time I ever did sauna was with you. That's right. Completely changed my life. Yeah. I do it all the time now. Non -stop. I did. It was probably 12 years ago. Something like that a long time ago. Yeah. I mean, I started doing it in college.

42:53Actually, I fast forward when I was 18 years old. And the team and Moose, I had this dumpy old sauna, but I just love the sweat. My favorite movie of all time is Raging Bull. Okay. So, that scene in the steamer is a, you know, he's kind of cut weight. Yeah. I don't like steamers only because of the noise and you can't read in there and you can't watch TV. I said, I'm going to start making saunas. And I was, you know, with two different companies infrared and electric heat. And started customizing saunas with windows. And but ultimately, I think just the sweat. I, you know, I think Matthew McConney said at one time, yet he believes in sweating once a day.

43:29And that gets a toxic saudi. Whether you drink the stuff they put in the foods, and I never get sick knock on wood. When my family gets a flu, I get nothing. But it seems like the hell's the thing in the world to do a sweat. And then I started putting the bike in the sauna and word got out. And there's nothing that doesn't get you in better shape. All it does is makes you sweat more and get those toxic saudi. And also mental toughness. Yeah. It's just so hard and so unpleasant. Exactly. It's like if you can do that, you can do whatever your regular job is for twice as long, because it's just the mental strength of you're enduring terrible things.

44:04Yeah. Same with the ice. Like when you stay in the ice for a long time, it's like once you can do that, whatever nonsense you have to do within your day becomes much smaller. Right. It's not sitting in ice. Yeah. Yeah. And training in the mountains like these guys are the altitude. No different from the sun. Now you train the heat. Well, then you go play a game. How much easier is it just playing a regular elements, right? Absolutely. And I didn't realize it at first, but I just all of a sudden I started feeling unbelievable. Like this is working. I had no lactic acids in me. Zero. So into this day, like I got my daughters, everybody, they're riding bikes in the sauna.

44:36They're all hooked too. It's amazing. But it's like I said, I can't think of a healthier thing to do. I got to get everybody's on to it now. I believe the hot cold treatment. Yeah. But no, but you really flew the flag. It's like we're all, yeah, everybody's into it because we saw you doing it. Yeah. And we got a guy down the street that likes to think he invented it, but we won't mention his name, but his initials are layered Hamilton. Well, yeah, it's it's I guess I'm glad I brought that. When did you decide to put the TV where you could watch TV in the sauna? Because I was spending so much time in there, Rick, and I was getting bored and I'm thinking, okay, at least I could watch documentaries or sports.

45:12Yeah. You know, you can't stay in there for a two out two and a half hour game, but you jump in for the 30 minutes, and then you go out, jump in the cold plunge, you come right back in the morning. You could definitely stay in the sauna longer if you're distracted. For sure. Oh, yeah. I listen to podcasts and stuff. If I'm really listening, you don't even notice how uncomfortable you are. No, and I hate binge watching these TV series, but in a sauna, at least I'm killing two birds with one stone, right? But like I said, it's something I'd suggest. Like women, I would suggest for the infrared because it's not high heat.

45:43It's a little more tolerable for women because when they first get in at even 180 degrees, it's not fun. So you got to just kind of build up a, you know, towards the heat. I would guess, right? Was the ice was the ice was a normal thing for players after games to get in a nice tub? It was like I'm thinking back to North Dallas 40, Nick Nolte sitting in that. It all started in those stainless steel, you know, whirlpools. You just fill it with water, dump three buckets of ice in there. And you're staying that for five minutes and it takes all the inflammation out of your body. Any aches and pains, I don't believe I'm taking medication unless you absolutely had to in your prescribed.

46:21But, you know, instead of taking anti -inflammatories, you just got to get in the cold tub. People don't understand how it's, it's hard to get in that cold tub. But like anything else, once you get used to it, you know, you start 30 seconds and build your way up to a minute. And then before you know it, you're in it for five minutes. Yeah, I remember the first time I went, first time even going into the ocean in the winter with you. Yep. I was terrified. I never did that before. And it felt great. It felt great. It felt great. It's like there's something in our mind that makes it seem scary because we haven't done it.

46:51But once you experience it and once you feel the hot, the extreme of the hot, and then the extreme of the cold and how it makes you feel completely at it. Yeah, and you end on cold and that tingling is the second and none. You have it for a few hours after and just your whole body, your muscles feel revived and so good. I would, I had a guy who had just come from Peru where he had done these psychedelic experiences with Charmin. And he came to do so on at my old house that burned down. And we did so on an ice and on the first round he was saying, wow, this would be really cool to like take the medicine and do it in here.

47:27And then by the time we got to like the fourth round, he's like, whatever you do, don't take any drugs when you do this because it'll kill you. Yeah, right. He's like, it was so intense once you get going. I've never felt better in my life than after a handful of rounds of sawing at ice. Yeah. Unbelievable what it does for the mind, for the mood. Yeah, usually do it after workouts in the mornings. That was kind of my time of the day. Like we just finished now me and a friend, but at night, if you do it, you sleep like a baby. If you have a tough time sleeping at night, same thing. That just knocks you out.

48:07If you can, you know, if you want to go at night, but I like getting out all the way during a daytime. Yeah, I've some reason I like it before dinner. That's my favorite. So you do, yeah. Sunsetty, something about it. I don't know why. I don't like getting in the cold in the morning. Oh, no. Maybe that would make it good. Maybe that means I need it, you know, hard to say. Yeah. But I know that later in the day, I feel better doing it. Well, like, like, like, Teeja's the only one you said, it's a lot of it's in your mind too, right? So I just, I just feel like after I work out and, and get in the sun, I'm so tired.

48:37But that cold tub gets me going for the rest of the day. Like it keeps me, not the adrenaline that, that feeling you get like goosebumps, kind of like the chills and I like that. Tell me about, um, in general, how would hockey fans differ from us? How do they support fans? Ah, the fact that there's fighting and the fans love the fighting. That says enough about the fans, but, and they like the physical part of it. Like that, that's the one thing, the hitting, you know, the aggressiveness. And even though it's become a more skilled game, there's still a physical aspect that's always going to be a part of it, especially in the playoff.

49:09The one thing I will say, unfortunately for the fans from a TV perspective, if you don't know hockey or you've never been to a game, it's really hard to follow it on TV and understand what's going on because they still haven't figured out because of the speed, you know, where the camera should be. And, you know, somewhat like soccer, they have to, they should just show the whole ice and then they need someone like you or, you know, in that type of business to give them the answer. But so far, no one's had it. It's really tough to understand TV. It's too fast to follow on TV. Yeah. And from a live sport perspective, I don't think there's a better live sport.

49:44Football, way better on TV, you know, it's so it's slower. You get, you get everything. Basketball is the one that you can get away with both, I think it's, I think it's a great, that's a great sport from TV and hockey. Baseball is what it is. I love baseball more than anything, but it's slow and you don't know as a fan. You don't even have to pay attention until you hear the ball hit the bat. Yeah. Basically, but hockey is a fast game. You can't, you can't leave because something's going to happen. You know, it's as the play is always going on. How many teams are there in the United States? Oh, there's 24, 25, 25 teams, 26 teams in the US.

50:18Yeah. And they're talking about expansion, but, you know, that disaster and phoenix, they're playing in a college ring now in front of 5 ,000 fans and that whole Glendale arena thing backfired on them. But that'll fix eventually. But like I said, it's sometimes it's just tough to sell hockey unless you got a good team. You know, when you first started playing, you played outside on ice going up. Yeah, growing up in Chicago, I learned on two different, one, when they froze the basketball court over the winter. Fireman would just show up with the truck and just sprayed every, you know, whenever it needed and it would freeze.

50:48It just seemed like back then the winners were colder. And, you know, now it's been weird whether everywhere, but, you know, and eventually when, you know, I started having kids, I was putting rinks in our backyards, but outdoor for two years and, and then I ended up, you know, getting lucky enough that by family we had just enough money to play competitive hockey and start playing, you know, on a regular team in club hockey. It's amazing. How'd you end up in Malibu? Yeah. Tony Danza. I'm going to drop Tony Danza's name again. He came to a game at the LA forum. We just, the Canadians, we just played the, the, the Kings and he was friends with the kid Russ Cortanall, one might teammates.

51:26So we went into the forum club after and I asked him where he lived and he told me Malibu and I'm thinking, geez, I seen that in the movies. It looks really cool because you should come check it out. So just was my first kid and I just had, and my wife was pregnant at the time. So we rented for a summer. I go, man, this is exactly how California should be. So rented for another year and we decided this is where I want to go and I want to train and get away from everybody because there's too many distractions in Chicago in the summer to, to have family time. And now I'm here 32 years later. Unbelievable.

51:58Yeah, love and it's. Best decision. Yeah, and I love my house and I, I don't like the crazy rules and the, you know, what's going on with the politics. But, you know, at the end of the day, I'm lucky enough we're in this little bubble with friends like you and, and like, just the group of guys. I love the idea of not having to drive more than 10 minutes to get anywhere. It's amazing. Yeah, it's like we're on our own little island here and it's a really special place Malibu.

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53:44What was it like any inducted to the Hall of Fame? Honestly, like for me, the, the, I, obviously, I was honored, but for the, the biggest thing was having a hundred of my friends and family there crossing the border, which is no easy feat. Yeah. Three of them got detained in the airport jail. I won't say why, but, but use your imagination. Yeah. And I, I think back here, right? I think back of the party, my mother and father were still alive, which, which made it really special. My dad's past since then, but you look back and to be lucky enough to, to make it to the NHL and then, you know, nobody from my neighborhood.

54:23I hope it happens, but it's ever going to make the Hall of Fame and hockey from the South Side of Chicago. I shouldn't say never, but, but that, it's a, it's a, it's in a real fluke. Right. That's, that's what, and I said that on the stage, just like a joke that I'm up here. But to have all those people up there and coaches from when I was a kid, and that, that's what was all about to feel fortunate. And I was to not only just be in the Hall of Fame to be able to share it, just like winning Stanley Cup Championships. It's great, but the best part is your friends and family and the parties and the, like, it's, it's crazy to see the effect it has.

54:59And then, you know, my friends don't ever have that chance to go to the Hall of Fame. They don't know a whole lot of guys like that and that make it so, you know, a kid rock, like performing with, you know, an, a bar in Toronto. We stole the show and the Canadians hated it. They absolutely hated it. It was the greatest Hall of Fame party. That's so funny. It's the ever had, you know, the tradition of, you know, being able to have the Stanley Cup and bring it, you know, to your house or anywhere. Those guys that bring that Stanley Cup around those three guys, they couldn't wait when it was free.

55:30They would call me. At some point I'm getting sick. I go, I don't want to have the Stanley Cup anymore, you guys. But, like I said, what it did for my friends, my family and the memories of all those, I got a photographer that made a book that I'll watch. I'll look through this book till I'm 100 years old, hopefully I live till it. It's just, it's special. That's what I'm, you know, the pictures are amazing. So cool. Yeah. So cool. In the game, finals, tell me the mindset of going to war. I mean, that's from day one. Like that's just, I, like, that was my thing. I was called the ultimate warrior.

56:04That was, I was, I didn't give it to my, I hate talking about myself, but I got to do it here. Yeah, that's okay. But that was my thing, like, how I compete it. And it didn't matter if I was in the gym, it didn't matter if I was playing pickleball, it didn't matter what I do. Unfortunately, the legs aren't there anymore to compete, but that was, I never quit. You know, I didn't want to let the best defenseman on the other team, I'll play me. That was a bottom line. And I didn't really necessarily enjoy winning as much as I feared or hated losing. Right? So, and that's the one thing that's, that I forget that phrase is the only thing stronger than something is fear.

56:41Like, I guess you'd probably know what you've heard that, but I just was afraid to lose. You know, I think Johnny Macnero, good friend of mine is a perfect example. He never enjoyed winning. He just hated losing so much. Like, he'd never seen a guy who was more relieved after he won than happy. And just relieved. But that's his competitiveness. And to this day, you know, golfing with him, I've lost it. Thank God. I'm sick. I was sick of having that, you know, in my brain that you have to win. And now I'm so relieved. Like, people think I care when I lose in other sports. And back am, and I don't care anymore.

57:15And I'm, I'm, thank God I got rid of that. What do you think changed it allowed that to happen? Because it sounds, sounds like this is a much healthier version of yourself. Just the grind. I was tired of the grind. And you played till you're 48. Yeah. I didn't realize at the time because I wasn't feeling the pressure. I wasn't feeling the grind. But what a relief it was when I retired, I think it was just the world off my shoulders that I didn't have to win anymore. I didn't have to compete anymore. I go and, you know, I skate and senior leagues guy. These guys are trying their hardest against me.

57:44I don't care. And I never thought I'd get to that point. Yeah. But I don't like it. That's great. Congratulations. Yeah, I lost it. And people don't believe it. But yeah. Has your training changed since you stopped playing? Definitely. I got a couple nagging things that you know, you can't go heavy. The one guy that comes to mind, Clint Eastwood said at one time in interview, he just believes in moderation. He never did heavy weights. He just, you know, just kept there. And I'm just consistent with the body weight mostly, you know, nothing heavy because when I try and get stronger or go heavier, there goes my knee, there goes my shoulder, there goes a shoulder or elbow.

58:21So I should know by now, like the old saying, if it hurts, don't do it. You know, I've toned it down mountain bike, even staying more on pavement than going in the mountains just because of the pounding. So you got to adapt. You know, you're not going to beat fall at time. And you have just as much fun doing it. Absolutely. Yeah. I just like I said, you just get smarter as you could hold you like to think, right? I read a quote where someone said that hurting you was better than winning a Stanley Cup. That would be my good friend, Terri O 'Reilly. Yep. Only because his teammate told me that, you know, two years later when they were sitting at the bench, and he got me, he blew my knee out purposely.

58:57Like he literally cut my legs out. I got pushed from behind right when he was about to hit me from another player. And he just stuck his hip into my side. And that was my first significant knee injury. It wasn't real bad, but it put me out of the playoffs. And he got me. And he hated me for years. Like I won the Norris Trophy as a defenseman, best defenseman of the year. He wouldn't pick me for the All -Star game because he was a coach. He did that two years to me. And that's the hate we talked about earlier. Wow. Some guys in the hate with Boston because it was a rival or Montreal Boston, you know, the original six teams.

59:31So many playoff rounds between them. So it was it was war. And O 'Reilly wouldn't let it go. He was from the old school and he was a tough guy. And I actually had the same number of them. And I liked them, but then when I played against them for the first time, I go, my God, this guy's a prick. He's got to kill me. So. So. And we finally made up. We, you know, we're alumni games somewhere in Montreal. In Montreal, we just happened to run into each other in one of the food rooms. And he goes, yeah, we did a lot of stupid things back then. I'm going to thank God. So we're good now. That's great.

1:00:03It's great. It feels better not having beef with people, though. You know what? I said that about a year ago. I'm done wasting my energy on hate. Yeah. And I truly mean it. I just left something bothers me. I just eliminated it. And that's it. I move on. I can't believe I'm saying that because, you know, like, that's not me. But it's so much better not to hate. It really is. It really is. Yeah. It feels good. I know. I guess is what I do now. I just ignore it. And you're being kind to yourself. Like, because when you hate somebody, they don't even know what's going on. You're just tearing yourself up.

1:00:33Right. You know, so it's like you're taking care of yourself, which is a good thing to do. Might as well. Yeah. No one else is going to do it. Yeah. I'm not quite out of the woods yet, right? But I'm getting there. Talk a good game. And no. But it's slowly but surely with age and being a grandpa, maybe that's got something to do with it? Yeah. I don't know. Like what's going on in this world? You know, you know, you're afraid to say something to someone anymore because you don't know what's going to, you know, gun knife. Who knows what's going to happen now? Like I mind, mind my own business a lot more than I used to.

1:01:02That's for sure. Yeah. When COVID hit, like everybody else boarded death, not allowed to leave the house. Everybody's under quarantine. So I got so bored, you know, after six months, I decided to start our own tequila company with a friend, right? It's tequila. You're a drink of choice in general. Beer and tequila. You can't trade tequila all day in the sun. I'm a boater. So, you know, I choose beer and just sit on beers. I could drink but lights till the cows come home. That's just been a guess. I've seen you do it. A gift or a curse. I don't know what it is. And then the tequila was a friend's idea.

1:01:33He went ahead and did all the leg work going down to Guadalajara and a Holesco and Guadalajara with the stories. And we came up with a great, if there's no such thing as healthy drinking, but it's clean. And it's, it is the healthiest you'll get as far as no additives really pure. And I think tequila out of all the liquors is probably the cleanest, not all of them, including vodka. And it doesn't have sugar in it, like no sugar. Yeah, it's a total different buzz. And but again, with my age comes moderation. So I figured that out too, but we got a tequila company called El Bandito. The name came from Butch Cassidy and Sundance Kid when they were, you know, the Bolivian police come running in there.

1:02:09El Bandito is not a medic on it, whatever. So El Bandito Yankee actually is what we called it from that movie. And it's going good. Yeah, we're about 15, 16 states and it's here in Malibu. Where can you get it? Any distributor in California, you just tell them or any bar restaurant you go to, they can order it. They'll just order it through the distributor. And I guess if you're a tequila person, you'll know this is a clean, good tequila. And it's been fun. A lot of great trips, a lot of events. We got NASCAR and Chicago coming up and brings you to a lot of new places. And then I'm still doing the Chicago Black Hawks Ambassador job, which is kind of cool.

1:02:44You just go to games and shake hands, sit in the suite, take pictures. At least you feel a little bit relevant. You're still around the game. Started doing ESPN last year with Mark Messier, Steve Lee. Was that fun? You know what? It's great to get back in the game. I don't like the grind of traveling. I only do 45 games a year with ESPN and all playoffs, which is cool because the playoffs is where it gets really exciting. So I'm looking forward to it's going to be an unbelievable playoff this year. But it's been good. I can't say I'm as comfortable as I want to be on TV. You know, it's not, you know, I didn't go to school like my daughter's doing it.

1:03:17And you could tell the five years of journalism was paying off, you know, with her because she sounds so good and smooth. And for a woman, what a great opportunity. It's been for her. And she's, but she worked hard to earn it. And, and it's fun to do a couple of games with her. They've allowed me to do that. And that's, I don't think I've ever seen a father daughter tandem. So you could tell that we're both alike. So it's, it's kind of comical. And then, and then the last thing is I do have a little deal with Wayne Gratsky where bat MGM ambassadors. And that's just a small job. But again, it brings you to some cool things, meet some cool people.

1:03:49I don't golf, but you know, some of the tournaments you get to meet some pretty interesting people and go to some pretty cool places. So, but like you, you stay busy, you know, it's hard not to, you know, a wild man told me I was going to retire at 50 down wild man and he goes, no, wait, you're 60. And I'm now thinking, well, down was 80. He wasn't quite retired. So now I'm shooting for 70. And if, you know, but like it's fun staying busy, you know, I love coming back to Malibu to see friends. It's great that I got a chance to run in. So cool. Because we're really never in the same city or country half the time.

1:04:22You seem to know a lot of musicians. How did that come to be? You know, playing hockey as long as I did for all the years, you just seem, all the venues, I guess they, we shared the same venues. First of all, so I can get in any backstage. I don't need any passes to get in where I'm playing. That's, you know, I, in the Chicago, I could have run for mayor at some point, much or all same things. So you have that advantage and I'll drop one named and I'm not going to say where he is because I don't know if I'm allowed to, but I've been really good friends with Eddie veteran. I met him through Dennis Rodman because he was a bulls fan at the time, not a hockey fan.

1:04:56And we met in 95 and become really close friends. And it's crazy how quick that time goes and I've seen him, you know, get married and have a couple of kids. But for, we're totally opposite. But for some reason we have this weird connection like I'll go to his beach house and he has the same, you know, pineapple thing on his wall. And then you'll have a t -shirt that I have. And I'm thinking he might have stolen my t -shirts. But it's crazy how we have these similar, like I wouldn't call them dumb things, but he's such an intellectual and, you know, he showed me so much stuff over the years. And it's a great relationship.

1:05:31I guess you could say opposites attract, but through him I've gotten to see some of the most unbelievable, historic, you know, things in music. And I've learned to appreciate music more. I love music. I'm just not real knowledgeable about it. And I think I told you earlier, I know a lot more about hockey than Eddie does. And I know, or music than he knows about hockey. So it kind of evens out the platform. But that's it. And then, you know, we have a mutual friend and kid rock when I was in Detroit. And if there's anything going on, Bobby was in the middle of it. So, you know, he's another guy, like, interesting and all over the place.

1:06:07But I loved it. And I love being around that life. I think, you know, I tried playing an instrument. Five different instruments when I was a kid. There's clarinet, cornette, saxophone. I trumpets type like that and piano. And after all of them, I realized I'm not good at any of them. I better start learning how to play a sport or do something else. And but in my next life, I would have loved to be a musician. It never worked out. But, you know, Johnny Mac, we started a bander in COVID. And I got to play the keyboards and it was a blast till him and Timmy kicked me out. I've been kicked out three times now.

1:06:38I don't know if I want to be around those music guys because they're so, it's crazy. The temperament, mental and how all their issues are falling out. So we don't have that in hockey. Once you're a teammate, you're blood brothers. This whole rock and roll thing. There's a question about that. If there's a guy who's on an enemy team, it's like the Dennis Rodman question. Yeah. And then they get traded to your team. What happens? I was that guy. I got traded from Chicago to Detroit and all of Detroit hated me. Like, and I mean, it couldn't have been worse. And then when I went to Detroit, all the fans in Chicago turned on.

1:07:11I mean, that was hometown. So, but the minute I walked in the room, the first guy came up to me. This guy I had had issues with for a long time. His name is Marty LaPoi and he comes up to me and he goes, are we going to be okay? I just started talking. We better be with Steve Hicks, man. So, it's crazy. Yeah, you're adopted. And that's happened to a lot of guys, like, you know, over the course of the years. And I put on that, we're at Wing's Jersey for the first time. I literally almost start crying. How wrong it looked. But you just start playing and thank God we start a winning. If I was to start losing, I would have been disowned in Chicago and then Detroit would have kicked me out.

1:07:46And I would have been homeless. So, it is a strange feeling, Rick, trust me. But again, once you're on the team, all everything's forgiven. And that's the beauty of it. But getting back to these musicians, they don't forgive. Like, how many of these guys, even family guys split up? Maybe because they spent so much time together, like, eight hours in studios. Or I don't know. It's like a marriage with these guys and all of a sudden. It is like a marriage. And it's also very emotional and personal. It's not just physical. Yeah. It's like there's a, there's a, there's a whole mental aspect of working stuff out.

1:08:20Much closer to a romantic relationship than it is to playing a game together. Yeah, we can get it all physically. We just go out and run someone over on the ice. Yeah. You guys got to keep that all the only way they get it. I was singing through songs, right? Basically, they come up with great songs and about real life things. So that's kind of cool. And you see the great bands usually have that tension, like Jagger and Richard's tension. Yeah. John and Paul tension. It's like, it seems to be a regular thing. Joe Perry and Stephen Tyler tension. So always the thing that makes the band good is that two people see it differently.

1:08:56And where they bridge the gap, that's this special thing where it's like, it's not just this guy's stuff and it's not just this guy's stuff. It's where they intersect and they don't belong intersected because they don't like each other. Right. They see it different. That's where the magic lies off. That's it. I've never heard that. I've never heard that. But you would know better than me. You're like, you're not the horse whisperer. You're the band whisperer. It's amazing. Like your reputation with them. It's just, and you have such as a whole home, laxed musical attitude, which that's your thing.

1:09:27And that vibe carries to them. And I think you have a calming effect on a lot of people that go through that and the ability to put these people in your studio. And I was fortunate enough the other day for the first time in 25 years. I don't know why I never came. Or I thought this was your, you know, your church. It is your church. So, you know, it was off limits for everything because of this, you know, how special in the history behind. But now, is that lucky to walk through them? You just kind of feel the ghosts of all of the people that have been in there. And I love that type of feeling.

1:09:59Yeah. Me too. It's such a cool place. And there's a reason. One of the things that I found is a thing that allows people to relax is the fact that there's nobody around. Like, there's no, there's no one to perform for. There's no audience because even sometimes one person, or if let's say it's a band of four people and one person's girlfriend is in the studio, it changes the whole energy of how everyone is acting. Or if two friends come to meet somebody while we're working, it changes it. It changes this feeling of, there's nobody else. Like there's no outside world. We're not performing for anyone else.

1:10:39And it can get really personal and really like intimate. That's what we aim for. Yeah, I mean, I'm not a late night guy, but I'm not going to say when it happened, but when I was here at your studio, you know, we're watching videos of the band. Incredible. And Eddie grabs a guitar. And it's the same guitar this guy is playing in 1970 whenever and I'm going, that gives you goosebumps. Like it, for me, that's like when I went to Graceland, just knowing that Elvis was here and there and there like that. For me, I love that part of the mystique. But this was real special, not knowing what to expect.

1:11:14And then everybody pointing out like Eddie pointing out in the background, that's the picnic table right there that they're sitting at. And that's the ovens. Yeah, and that's the pool table that they played on in movies. Yeah, and I'm trying to connect everything. I go, man, that wallpaper, that's not the same wallpaper. Yeah, but it was we remodeled. Yeah, it's so cool. I'm glad I got a chance to see it. Cool, man. Well, thank you so much for coming. No, thank you. Love seeing you. It's great that we got to hang out a little bit. You're too right. Yep.