Chris Pavlovski

30:01So we did. Four days later, we get a notice. Then we turn on Brazil. We go live in the entire country, thinking it was a big win. And then the Supreme Court justice sends us a letter to censor this. Same one. Same one for different creators now. I guess they found another stuff on the Rumble they didn't like, very political. And then we said no again. And this time, we didn't shut down Brazil. And they ended up shutting us off at the ISP level. And we ended up litigating against them for various different reasons. But we did that in the United States court. And because we started litigating them, because they sent an order saying, we need to do this and we need to pay this fine.

30:44and we're like this is invalid or u.s company and we went to the u.s court and we got the result we wanted at the u.s court we didn't have to comply with this order and he ended up you know shutting us down completely and then you know naming me specifically as i'm trying to destabilize brazil for doing absolutely nothing except challenge them in court i'm not even according to the supreme court in brazil you're not even allowed to challenge them in the florida court so it was it's been a really odd one and then i think recently there were sanctions imposed on that supreme court justice in brazil by the united states for the censorship and stuff that he's done to rumble and x that one's been a little bit more a lot bigger of a story just because he did it to x as well he did it to rumble asking for all this censorship and rumble did not comply i believe x did comply though so it was a little bit different of x didn't comply for a month and then then they ended up paying the fines and complying whereas we didn't at all and now we're shut off and continue to be shut off and do you think that's something that eventually will work itself out i think so but usually over time the truth wants to come out yeah in the problem there is a little bit different.

32:05We're talking to the Supreme Court justice. When you look at laws and the way the United States justice system works, if we have a problem in the United States, we take it to court. And it goes up the court. It can go all the way to the Supreme Court if you disagree on appeal, on appeal, and you get to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court makes a decision, and that becomes the law of the land. What the Brazilian Supreme Court justice was, he was not waiting for anybody to take it to the courts he just created his own order at the very top and said rumble's not allowed to do this that's like unheard of in law we've never seen anything like that in america and it's definitely not the process in brazil so now you're on everywhere in the world except china russia and brazil correct yeah it's a big world that's great yeah no it's the france win was it was a big one big moral victory for us when that happened did it help growth in europe in general when you came back in France?

33:00It's still early to say. This just happened like a month ago. Oh, really? Yeah, and a lot of people in France probably are not even aware that that order has been reversed and now we're there. So it's going to take some time to see that. Do you do any kind of advertising or promotion outside of Rumble itself? Yeah, absolutely. And we're going to do that a lot in 26. We're going to go very international for the very first time. We've been very like isolated to the United States It's just because, you know, we've been working hard at making the platform better and doing a lot of things better. We haven't had the time to kind of really crow rumble internationally.

33:38But that is a huge focus for us.

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36:00From 2020 to now, how much has Rumble grown? So we reported 47 million monthly active users in the last quarter that we reported. So that's up 47 times since 2020. Wow. Huge. Yeah, it's been massive. And would you say that the content is across the board now? More so. It's getting there. We're doing a real big effort to diversify the content in the last two years. and we've done a pretty good job on that. And I think, like, you know, since the elections in 2024, the political content is, it's still extremely popular. You know, Rumble does really well on days of news events. But it's been a huge, huge move for us to try to be more than just politics and really touch onto different things.

36:50I hope so, because the purpose of it was never political. Never, yeah. No, it was just people making cool stuff. yeah and you know we brought on like street league skateboarding we have that now exclusively on rumble so we got some cool sporting stuff on on rumble seems like comedy would be a really good area yeah i agree i think comedy would be that that's a great category for for rumble that's it's something that we're talking about internally how to do that a lot of these guys have built huge audiences on youtube so we have to find ways to entice them to bring their huge audiences onto rumble that's the barrier we have to overcome and there's like a monetization barrier so we have to deal with that but how does monetization work on rumble versus youtube or anywhere else so youtube's monetization is basically pre-roll ads so you you turn on a video and you get like a 30 second commercial or 10 second commercial before the video is sold by youtube yes so rumble does the exact same thing on that as well.

37:53The other way that they monetize is through, you can tip a creator. So if you're doing like a live stream, you can tip. We have that same feature. On Rumble, you have live streams as well as pre-made videos. Yes, exactly. So you can do VOD or you can do live streaming. So on VOD, it's all programmatic advertising, which are those commercials on live streaming. It's, you know, programmatic advertising and tipping. And you can also subscribe to a creator for exclusive content on Rumble with YouTube. You can do something similar. The one thing where we have a competitive advantage against YouTube, which is just, you know, it's being released imminently.

38:33It's out on Android. It's out on iOS right now as well. And it's in beta is the Rumble wallet. So you can, you can also tip creators in Bitcoin or stable coin as well. How did that come to be? We took in a really large investment from Tether. We closed the deal in February of 25 this year for$775 million. So they invested in Rumble. And obviously, they're the world's largest stablecoin, Tether, USDT. And they're huge Bitcoin people. And so am I. We actually, you know, we hold Bitcoin at Rumble. We held it even prior to me even knowing the Tether guys. So it's something we always wanted to do. especially now that with the new administration being a lot more pro crypto and pro bitcoin we felt like this was an opportunity for us to be a first mover and allowing creators to and users to tip creators with bitcoin so we've been working on that all year and it's now in beta on ios and android and i'm really looking forward to you know launching this big time in in 26 because how is the experience of rumble different on the website versus the app all the same features on the web on the app primarily are you on apple tv as well yeah so you can watch the podcasts on apple tv roku samsung lg xp you know what percentage is on the phone versus the laptop versus screaming on television yeah we do so when you look at a phone i guess like a lot of people will still use their phone in a browser that that's pretty popular a desktop is like, you know, it's a much smaller percentage.

40:12TV is like the growing medium right now. So a lot of people are taking these podcasts on Rumble and watching them on their TVs now. That's becoming like a thing. And what we're noticing is a lot of people are taking their podcasts, they're converting them to a live show where they can interact with the audience and actually take questions from the audience through the chats. So you're seeing podcasts kind of transform into a live stream and you're seeing these live stream podcasts now being streamed on the big screen on the live streams if you go to the app are all the live streams in one place can you see this is all happening now yes yeah it's different than your typical tv listings where you have channels like channel numbers here you have like you know organization by based on like how many people are watching, how many people are chatting, et cetera.

41:04So it's similar. I actually see the world moving. We have cable TV, which is live. I see that moving to over the top internet-based TV. And I really see independent creators kind of, this is like five years, 10 years down the road, kind of dominating the most of the consumption for big screen TVs. So a show like this can be live on someone's TV, and someone can tune into it whenever you go live. And I think that's where the market's going to move. What's the advantage of live versus recorded? The ability to interact with your audience. And it's the same for TV. If you look at CNN or Fox, they're live.

41:52The idea of being live is just the audience likes it better. But the real advantage here is that when it comes to live streaming on Rumble or YouTube or any of these other platforms, it's now become like a community where the person that subscribes to you can now chat, post questions. You can choose to acknowledge them or not. You can choose to interact with them. You now have a two-way relationship with your audience in real time with your guests or whatever your show might be. So to me, it's like the next iteration. It's almost like moving Web 1.0 to Web 2.0, which was, you know, these flat web pages of information to now like social networks.

42:37It's like live stream. It's like consumption of video Web 1.0 to consumption of video Web 2.0, where you now have a two-way interaction with audience and talent. and I think that brings talent and audience a lot closer and really builds incredible communities and that's kind of where I see it all going I see your typical ABC networks you know your Fox networks your these big networks that are on television I see platforms kind of being their own networks whether it's going to be Netflix YouTube Rumble Twitch they're all going to have like their own collection of content, their collection of streamers, and you're going to tune into each platform the way you kind of tune into like the CBS or ABC networks.

43:24That's kind of how I see it transforming in the next five to 10 years. How would you compare Rumble to Twitch? Twitch is entirely a live streaming platform where Rumble is more than just live streaming. Rumble's like YouTube. It has live streaming. It has VOD. What percentage of people are watching live stream versus watching VOD? The VOD is still the largest component of Rumble. And on YouTube as well, I imagine. Yeah, absolutely. The live streaming component, it's more like a forward thinking future type of where we think the market's going to go. Now, if you do a live stream, afterwards it becomes a VOD piece.

44:03Exactly. So you don't have to watch it when it's happening. You could still watch it after. Exactly. And that's why a lot of people like that. It's like, you know, you're basically getting all the work done in the live stream for your VOD at the same time. And it all automatically converts when it's done. And it's, you know, a lot of people will watch it three, four days later. From the beginning, did you think of Rumble as a niche product or did you think of it as it's going to be YouTube? It's going to be YouTube. That's amazing. Since day one. That was, you know, no question about that. That was always the target.

44:39You know, I didn't see the world go the way it was going to go in terms of like seeing all the platforms kind of give away the market. We're all in the middle. We all have the same terms of service. You name it, Snapchat, Twitter, XNOW, YouTube, Facebook. They all have relatively similar terms of service. And then everybody started picking sides like right away. And we just sat in the middle. And all of a sudden, from a very crowded place in the middle, it became empty. and the market just came to us. It wasn't because we went to that. We just stayed in the same spot. We didn't change anything.

45:14And now they're all kind of changing back. And like YouTube announced, I guess, like a couple of months ago that they're now, you can talk about elections again. You can talk about whatever you want and they're going to move towards free speech and they're going to bring everyone back. And Facebook did that a year ago and Elon did that with X like a couple of years ago. So it's all coming back to where we were, which is great. there was a moment in time where it was very lonely it was just us and it seems like that's a pendulum that might keep swinging absolutely there's a great advantage to you staying in the center and you know it's it's going to be funny because like one day you're perceived as one type of politics but the next day you could be perceived with the other type of politics but really you just you haven't moved and i think you kind of see that over history like depending on the decade There's certain parties are more for free speech, pro-free speech than other parties.

46:08So it changes. Free speech is not stagnant, that's for sure. It's politically agnostic and anyone can say anything. To a certain extent, yeah. To the legal extent. Yeah, within the bounds of our terms of service. But you're exactly right. It's politically agnostic. It's not to be one way or the other. We want to be a place where you can speak freely, where we're not telling you what you can or cannot say or you can or cannot hear. We want you to be able to express yourself the way you've been able to express yourself at your dinner table. And it's user-generated. Everyone has opinions. So it's not representing anything other than the creator.

46:50Correct. It doesn't stand for anything. Yeah, and it's funny because the media would associate a specific creator out of the millions that will be on your platform, they'll associate that creator to represent the views of the platform and and that's just preposterous it's like but that's what happened in the last five years and you know i i think that kind of getting thrusted into the world of politics and seeing how the media would play that game that was probably like the biggest disheartening thing it kind of gave me a little bit more skin because you see how evil that is like what was the first time the media came after you oh yeah okay so this was in this is a good one so it was 2020 you're gonna like this story this is it's a good story i don't think i've talked about this story publicly before it was buzzfeed in 2020 around the election like a week before the 2020 elections and it was in the middle of covid and an editor from buzzfeed wanted to interview me and i've had no experience with the media this is like rumble kind of growing in this direction that was incredible but like i had zero experience with media zero experience politics i'm probably excited that buzzfeed i was excited i'm like all right we're gonna get an interview this is pretty cool yeah and it's in toronto and it's in covid and he says let's meet and you know we we end up meeting in the rumble offices which at the time were closed because it's peak covid but you know we decided to meet He wanted to meet in person.

48:26And we met in person. And he starts interviewing me. You know, started off great. It seemed like a good interview. And he starts asking me some questions. And I feel like it's going in this awkward direction all of a sudden. So a little background before I get into it, because it's very relevant. My parents were born in a country called Macedonia. Where is that? That's north of Greece. North of Greece. Yeah. Close to Turkey? Between Serbia and Greece. And like right beside, between Bulgaria, Albania, Greece, and Serbia and Kosovo. It's a little country. It was part of the former Yugoslavia. So that's where my parents were born.

49:10They immigrated to Canada. They're back in the 70s. I was born in Toronto. When your parents moved, did they already speak English? Probably not. My mom moved first to Australia. And then from Australia, she came to Toronto. and my dad moved in his teenage years with his parents straight to Toronto. Why did they decide to move? At the time, they were looking for a better life. It was communist Yugoslavia at the time, and their parents felt like they could find a better life in Canada and North America. Did they leave, or was it hard to leave? I don't think it was hard to leave. I'm not sure exactly how they managed that, but I don't think it was difficult.

49:52so they they came i come from immigrants immigrant parents that came from macedonia so i'm in this interview with buzzfeed and then he mentions to me so i was the reporter about the fake news farms in macedonia and i was like fake news farms in macedonia what what what does that have to do with me and he's like i i couldn't help but notice that you have parents that are from Macedonia. And I'm like, I'm sitting there in shock. I'm like, okay, there's lots of Macedonians. What does this have to do with me? And he's like, well, they helped fix the election in 2016 with Trump and Hillary Clinton or whatever.

50:33And he starts asking me these questions. And I'm sitting there and I'm like, I had like a tear in my eye. I couldn't believe this was happening. If someone comes from a nation where there was a terrorist attack, are you going to ask them if they're part like this is so discriminatory why are you asking me this question it was so shocking I remember I had a tear I had like tears in my eye like in this interview in complete shock of what was going on I go this is like absolutely inappropriate this is completely discriminatory yes my parents came from Macedonia and no I have nothing to do with anything that you're talking about nor do I have any knowledge about what you're even talking about i'm like this is ridiculous that you're even asking me this and he got really i think he felt really bad when i when i when i said that as he should and that was my first instance with the media and i never felt like something so evil that you would discriminate against me from just from where my parents it almost made me like embarrassed to say like should i be embarrassed to say that my parents came from macedonia is that where you're like it was really really gross and that was my first instance with the media and i can i put bad taste in my mouth forever did the story talk about that at all they touched on it very little he's like i must put it in and i'm like why does that have any relevance to this story whatsoever so they didn't really talk about it much but they added in the line or two that he's from macedonia and of course they had to put But Macedonia was a place where fake news, like it was, it was just so wrong.

52:15It was, I, from there on, I never took an interview from what I thought would be a hostile, potentially hostile. But going in, you didn't think it was going to be hostile. There would be no reason to think there'd be any hostility. I'm a Canadian guy in Toronto. Like, why is this happening? They're just looking for dirt. You know, they're looking for that headline and they want to put that headline out there to get more clicks or something. But that was a real eye-opener. It was really gross. Since then, how has Rumble been smeared? Well, the Russia stuff with France, every single major news, Politico, everybody covered the Russia thing with France.

52:56And then when Russia banned Rumble, they didn't cover it.

53:04Amazing. That seems par for the course for the media. I think that was like one of my biggest learning experiences is just like seeing the corporate media and how agenda driven they are. And they're just they're trying to get to the answer they want rather than trying to figure out what the reality really is. They have an agenda. They have an answer they want to get to. And they're going to do whatever it takes to get to that answer to feed an agenda. And that's not what the media should be. And that's exactly why podcasts like this and shows on Rumble are doing so well, because it's just independent thought with no agenda, no corporate agenda behind it telling them what they should be asking and what they should be saying.

53:48And I think that's why this medium is growing so much and why it will continue to grow in the decades to come. Have you dealt with any censorship in the United States? we dealt with a few things one in california one in new york that we've challenged in the courts and we've succeeded on both of them what were they so the one in new york was at the time attorney general of new york i think leticia james wanted to create like this moderation thing where i don't know the exact details of it i can't remember this a couple years ago but it was basically some type of it was something that violated the first amendment And the one thing that's been amazing about America is like the judges here in the judicial system values the First Amendment.

54:35And like we've been prevailing on anything when it comes to the First Amendment here. So we don't have that type of issue. Like I've never dealt with like outside of obviously the companies in America that have been censoring for the last five years. But you have been attacked. Yeah. So when it comes to the corporate America, remember I was telling you how we were building our infrastructure. So on July 4th, I remember it because it was July 4th. Yeah, Independence Day. Yeah, I think it was the day before Independence Day that we got a notice from one of our providers that they were going to shut everything down on July 3rd, that they're going to shut everything down in 24 hours because they didn't want to host anything to do with Rummel.

55:19And our team, which has been building the infrastructure behind the scenes at lightning speeds, were forced to move everything early onto the infrastructure. And they did within 24 hours notice. So you didn't miss a beat. We didn't miss a beat. And I remember being like, wow. That's awesome. On Independence Day, we achieved one of the, would have been a catastrophic problem where Rumble would be shut down across the world. Did they tell you why they wanted to shut you down? It was, I think it was related to this Russia war. They want specific content to be off. So now, are you totally independent in that way?

56:00Oh, yeah. When Facebook goes down or Amazon goes down, we're humming. We're alive. Congratulations. It's the coolest thing. When you see that we're running completely on our own rail and completely independent from any type of, I guess, competition. And no corporate interference. Yeah. And that's really, that was the big fear. Yeah. Was the corporate interference. And where do those guys get their marching orders to do what they do? We didn't violate any of their policies. Not even their own policies were violated. But they make a decision up at top saying, these guys got to go. That's wild. Yep.

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58:20For people who have not built their own infrastructure, is there a way that they can find safe haven? depending on the year and that's probably the best way to answer that i think it depends on the year it depends on the political environment but ultimately if you become really really large and there's a government out there that doesn't like what you're saying on it about their government you're not going to survive it's just it's it's that simple we've gotten censorship orders from New Zealand, Australia, India, Brazil, France, China, Russia. And we even had one in the UK. They wanted us, a UK parliamentary member, or I can't remember exactly who sent us the letter, but they wanted us to take down Russell Brand, not for the content that he posted on Rumble, because they didn't like who he was.

59:21Had nothing to do with the content on Rumble, but they wanted us to remove. Well, they tell you it has nothing to do with the content. It's impossible to know. Correct. Yeah, they were just, and we stood against them and we went public with the letter and we said, no way. You're going to have to shut us down first. So now you're on in the UK. Yeah, we're still on in the UK. Yeah, they didn't follow through and it was just a threat. And a lot of them are. Like the New Zealand one was a threat the australian one was a threat the uk one was clearly a threat that didn't follow through on but it just shows that like we're that close to them taking away what i regard as the most basic human right the ability to speak freely the ability to give your opinion if you can't give your opinion and you can't speak freely what society do you live in that is like the most fundamental human right everyone talks about human rights this is the one of the most fundamental basic basic absolutely basic it's something that people have fought for for you know thousands of years no matter where you are you want to have a voice and when you take away someone's voice and you take away everyone's voice you know that's what creates really big problems in the world where on the planet is rumble most popular united states of america and after that I would say Canada and the UK would be the next two.

1:00:55And are there any places where you see big potential growth? Yeah. So our focus in 26 is going to be international. We see a lot of potential in South America, a lot of potential in India. We think India is a very large market, and it's one that we want to pursue because there is a little bit of English overlap there. So it'll be a little bit easier for us. And then we just launched like Spanish language rumble in the last month. So as we get more global, you know, that'll take away that political perception as well. So when you go international in each country, you can be in the language of that country using AI.

1:01:32Yeah. So I think we're doing it a little differently when we're entering these countries now, but as AI gets smarter and gets better, we're going to have a ton of options. We just acquired a company in Europe and Germany. we announced this about a month ago that has the largest GPU state, one of the largest GPU states in Europe. GPUs are the hardware behind AI. So basically an AI infrastructure company is what we acquired in Europe. So this is a big, big initiative internally for us. This will attach to our cloud business that we've built, this AI infrastructure company. Tell me about the cloud business.

1:02:12So we built that Rumble cloud business because it was existential for Rumble to survive, as we spoke about on that July 4th day. But you've opened it up beyond just your use. Correct. Now it's open to the public as of last year. And we are now hosting more than just Rumble. We're hosting the Miami Dolphins. We're hosting the Tampa Bay Bucs. So you're competing with the other big cloud services. Exactly. Our goal is not only to compete with Google on video, but to compete with them on cloud as well. And the reason why we got into the cloud business is obviously it was because it's existential. But the other reason why is that when you own a very large video property, like Google owns YouTube or like Amazon owns Twitch, You have a lot of capacity of storage, a lot of capacity for bandwidth, a lot of capacity for processing power.

1:03:14For example, Rumble represented 17 % of the US streaming market, according to stream charts, on the 2024 election night, presidential elections. That's huge. Huge. YouTube was like 60%, 70%. Twitch was like 10%. Rumble was like 17%, 18 % that night. And we're not 17%, 18 % of the US streaming market every day. That was just on election night. So you have all this excess capacity that's not being used every other day. And if we hosted, if we got to 17 % on election night, we'll probably have a little bit more. And so we have all this extra capacity that we're not using. And so does Google and so does Twitch.

1:03:53And that enables us to go into the cloud market with tons of capacity and be able to sell that with really high margin. So not only was it existential for Rumble to have it and defend itself, but it's also, we can be very competitive with the Googles and the Amazons because of the excess capacity that we have because of Rumble, as Rumble being the main tenant. And price-wise, can you compete with them? Yeah, because we have this capacity, whether we're using it or not. So essentially, the margin is huge. That's why we got into the business. And then more recently, about a month ago, we had processing power, we have compute, we have storage, we have Kubernetes, what we just brought what we're bringing in with this acquisition in Europe is AI, GPU as a service, data centers.

1:04:41They own a lot of data centers. They have a lot of power. They have really good assets. So we're bringing in a very large asset base, one of the largest GPU estates in Europe. So that also helps us go international because we've been very, very here in America mostly. But that takes us the next step and also fortifies us as well as a company. So pretty excited about that and to go to your ai point you know that ai resource now that we'll have is going to be critical in making rumble better making our ads better for advertisers and really kind of taking rumble to the next level as well both internationally with languages tools to help creators monetize better help them do things easier etc so youtube sells ads that are pre-roll and now you guys also sell ads?

1:05:36Yes. How does that work? So the way I like to look at Rumble is that we have a bunch of pillars of business. We have the video business. We have the advertising business. So pillar one, video. Pillar two, advertising. So the Rumble advertising centers where advertisers can go in, purchase ads with their favorite creators, purchase ads across the platform, and they can purchase ads even outside of the Rumble ecosystem. So it's a whole exchange where you can buy ads and spend money. We have another pillar, which is the payments. How big of a staff do you have on the advertising side? We've just under 300 for the whole company.

1:06:14And I think the advertising side is probably close to 50. The other pillar that we have is payments, which is that the wallet that we're launching that's in beta that I spoke about. And then the fourth pillar would be cloud. And then our fifth pillar is the data centers with this acquisition that we're making. So those are the five pillars of business that we're focused on. The whole vision is to basically create a freedom-first technology infrastructure across all these pillars where everything is built around the ethos of freedom, freedom of speech, freedom to transact, freedom of reach, freedom to build on a cloud that's not gonna interfere based on anything that you do.

1:06:57we believe that everything that we do online in the next 10 to 20 years everything you do on your phone should be built in a way that you own as the creator owns it as the user should own it the user should have privacy around it they should have the ability to do what they want with it and it should be decentralized so the whole ecosystem that we're building is going to be based on the principles of everything around Freedom First. And eventually we're going to have a Freedom First AI. We think your AI should also be your AI, not controlled by a corporate entity. The only place we play in is we'll be your infrastructure, we'll be your resource if you need more compute power.

1:07:42If you need more hardware, we'll play in as the resource for that. So we're really, really, I'm really bullish on the idea that everything will go towards the ability for people to own their own software, have their privacy, and be able to say whatever they want to say with their own applications. I remember a few years ago in Canada, there was the issue with the Canadian truckers. Do you remember the story? Oh, yeah. Very well. Very well. And they were smeared. They were removed from social media. They were debanked. People who donated to them, the money was stolen. Do you see a world where Rumble fixes that problem?

1:08:22That's what we're trying to fix. Because when you really look at the tech stack that we're building, the goal is to make sure that your money is untouchable. We're launching a non-custodial wallet. We can't even touch it. The Rumble wallet, we can't even take the money out of it. It's not even technically feasible for us to do it. So it's a non-custodial wallet. You have a platform where we're allowing you to speak completely freely without telling you what you can or cannot say or can or cannot hear. That is exactly what I think most of the world is striving for. They're striving for that independence, that resilience, that privacy, that freedom.

1:09:05Freedom is something that we've all pursued for thousands of years, every generation. Wars have happened based on fighting for freedom. Like that's something that is engraved in us as humans. We want that freedom. And I think that right now, all the companies that are out there, all the big corporate technology companies, they control the application layer. They are biased. They don't want you to own your own AI. They want to monetize every part of you. You're now the product for them. We want to flip that on its head. I want to be the resource for you if you need it. And I want to give the application layer for you where you can control it and you can have your own privacy.

1:09:50I think there's a market for that. I know there's a market for that. That's why Rumble exists today. Rumble has 47 million monthly active users, most of which are here in America. And we haven't even touched the surface internationally yet. And when you put that in perspective, like 30 to 40 million are in US and Canada for us, X has, the last time they reported it was 67 million in the US. YouTube's 200 million in the US. So it's a big number. It's a big number. It's not a small number. We don't have 2 billion worldwide, but we haven't tried yet. So as we try next year, there's a lot of headroom for us to grow there.

1:10:25But even now, YouTube is less than 10 times as big? They're 2 billion internationally, 2.2 or something. In the U.S. In the U.S. less than 10 times, yes. Yeah. In the U.S. So you know it's possible. That's within striking distance. Yeah, absolutely. It's, we're close. And on election night, we're, you know, not far at all, actually. Yeah. We're the only competition on election night. So the appetite for what we're building is there. And I think that it doesn't just exist for video. It exists for all your applications. If you could walk me through the trucker situation what was taken from those people and how would in this new rumble ecosystem protect those people so number one the truckers they were voicing their opinion by protesting physically online during non-violent protest no they were playing hockey on the streets there and honking their horns that was absolutely non-violent it was it was like a party if anything And it was all over Canada, but most particularly in the capital, Ottawa.

1:11:31But the parties were in Toronto. They were everywhere. You walked the streets, you'd see it. And they just were voicing their opinion around COVID at the time. And they didn't want forced vaccines. And the problem here is, and this is why Rumble fixes all this, is that, number one, you couldn't even voice these opinions or even show what's happening on the streets. these peaceful protests on YouTube. They were getting banned because I'm sure the Canadian government was putting pressure on YouTube to remove content. And Rumble was the opposite. Rumble was like, you know, this doesn't violate our terms of service to play hockey on the streets of Toronto.

1:12:11And if someone wants to make a video arguing the opposite side, that would be there too. Absolutely. Let the best argument win. You're not on any side. No, exactly. No side whatsoever. So you could broadcast these protests on Rumble, whereas on YouTube, you might not be allowed to say that the COVID shot, I don't want to have it. One, you give the ability for freedom of speech to all those truckers. That's one thing that we do better than our competition at the time. But the truckers were fighting for other things, too. They were getting their banks shut down. So Rumble Wallet would defend that.

1:12:48If you had your money in Rumble Wallet, government of Canada can't shut that down. that's untouchable. It's on the blockchain. It's decentralized. So Rumble Wallet would fix that as well. So you give them freedom of speech, you give them freedom of finance. Those are the two pillars that you would really be able to fix with Rumble in that situation. But ultimately, I think if a company like Rumble becomes very big that's based on this principles, then governments have harder time opposing that as well. I also think if more companies did what we did, governments wouldn't be able to do what they did to the truckers.

1:13:23And that's like kind of the sad part is that all these companies folded. Every single one of them folded. They all took orders from the government, regardless of their principles, whether they agreed with them or disagreed with them. They just took the orders and they censored and they shut everybody down. They shut down the bank accounts. Probably out of fear. It's scary to go up against the government. It is, but we did. We did it in France. We did it in Brazil. I'm not as big as Mark Zuckerberg or any of these other guys. I'm not even a fraction of them. But I still told them to go pound sand just based on a principle.

1:13:59It was pretty easy. It was the right thing to do. I'm surprised they all folded. It's shocking to me how weak everyone was.

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1:15:42How much of the internet is free and fair now? Not much. And it's going to get worse. It's going to get way worse with AI. Wasn't that the whole idea of the internet originally? That's a free and open internet is the whole premise of it. It's the whole point. With AI, it's going to go completely opposite. How do you see that playing out? So one form of censorship was to just shut people off and know that they were shut off. That's what happened in 2020, in 2021, 2022. It was so easy to see. Everybody knew it. With AI, you're not going to know it. They don't need to shut you off anymore. They don't need to suspend your account or take your account away.

1:16:29They need to make it look like the people that are looking to see if you're still there, it shows up. And the people that were never looking for you, you never see it. and I believe that's already started. I believe that AI will take censorship to a level we have never seen, and it'll be almost impossible to figure it out. Wow. And that's like the scary part, because you'll start believing narratives that might not be popular, but AI will make it appear popular. That gets into a really scary territory. I think that we're going to have to be very aware, very cognizant that this could be a very big possibility.

1:17:11It really undermines the whole promise of AI. The whole basis of AI is that it can look at all the information that exists and make decisions even better than humans. That's the idea. Yep. so if the humans in any way put the thumb on the scale of ai in any way yeah it totally negates the whole benefit of it absolutely and the worst part is is that we've already seen humans put the thumbs on their scale it's just human nature they all do imagine you they know they can do it without you knowing they're doing it i just don't see a world in which they don't do that they're going to do that i think they'll all do it and i think that creates the opportunity for us are you building your ai from the ground up so we first you need the resources and the hardware to be able to do that that's why we did this acquisition and then our big investors which are the stable coin tether are building something like this right now we're partnered up with them to to do that as well and the whole idea is going to be basically for us to deliver an ai that you own that you control and you control its outcomes where we don't really have the say on that and i think that's where this is going to go and this is that's where we're going to take it because you can't trust us to control your ai so it won't be built on top of any existing an AI system?

1:18:47So the way that in which Tether is looking at, it's called QVAC. And the overarching idea is that it'll be a model that's built on you, not built on the preferences of us. So I want to say we're early days for AI, but I think we're definitely early days in mapping this out and doing it the right way. But this is something that I think will be a very big opportunity for Rumble because I don't imagine any AI not being biased. I don't care who does it. If it's being controlled, if the model is being built, that model is not open source and you can't see or someone can't investigate what it's doing, then I don't think you can trust it.

1:19:29And the one you're building will be open source? Yeah, whatever we do, it will be done in a way where everyone can see it and you'll be building it on your own device and it'll be held on your own device and it'll be independent and differently than the one I have on mine. And that's kind of the principle of where we want to take it. And no one's doing that yet. And we want to be the first ones to do that. Tell me about the decision to go public. So we went public in 2022. The one thing about Rumble is the people love Rumble. It's unbelievable how much recognition we get and how much love we get.

1:20:07The investment community and the corporate community do not like Rumble. were disrupting everything for them, especially the corporate media, as we discussed. So outside of like a very few investors, the interest to invest in Rumble was not something that any major investor wanted to do. In fact, when we went and looked for a vehicle to go public, no one wanted to work with us. The only one that wanted to work with us was Howard Letting. That was the only guy who's now the Secretary of Commerce. And he helped us take us public. And we went public. And the reason why we went public is we knew there was a real appetite with the people to do what we're doing, building something based on freedom of speech.

1:20:55So we took it public at a$2 billion valuation back in 2022. And it was the most successful SPAC in that year when SPACs were not doing well at all. we had less than 0.1 % redemptions or something like that it was it was incredible so it was super successful and the even till now like the majority of the people that own rumble are are the retailer the people the people that use the platform we don't have huge institutions coming in and buying huge chunks of of our stock and trying to influence our board and we have the people that own us and the people are like fully aligned with the mission that we have.

1:21:42And it's very ideological in the sense for free speech and the human right of freedom of expression. And, you know, most people wouldn't go public. But for me, I think that was definitely the right choice at the right time. How has it been so far since that decision? It's been amazing. Everyone says like going public is tough and maybe you don't want to go public. but you know it's kind of fun when you're when you have the people behind you and the people that are the owners it keeps you in check because you know you're always doing the right thing and you have to do the right thing because the people that own your company and your shareholders want you to do the right thing they're in it for obviously they want to see a very successful company but they're also in it because of our mission and what we do and the mission is clear to everyone.

1:22:31The people who are investing in it invest in it because of what it is, not in spite of what it is. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. And that's why the institutions may stay away from it. And maybe you want them to. Possibly. Yeah. And I think times are changing now because freedom expression is a little cooler than it was three years ago. So we're seeing a little bit more interest. It's not as taboo as it was. So times are changing a little bit for sure. where does vimeo fit into the ecosystem of youtube rumble in the video wars you know there's actually a cool story behind that vimeo was started by the college humor guys so remember i was talking about ebom's world and all those video sites way way back yeah so it was started by like three guys they started vimeo after college humor to compete against youtube and they did very well and then And obviously, that became not so well once YouTube started getting integrated into Google Search.

1:23:35And it became more difficult for everybody. But when I started Rumble, one of the shareholders was the founder of Vimeo, believe it or not. He's no longer in it. But he was part of Rumble. Josh Amerson was one of the very first shareholders of Rumble. And what's the status of Vimeo today? I think they just got purchased by, I can't remember the name. They just got purchased by somebody, I think an Italian company. But they're more like an enterprise product now. They're not in the same space that Rumble or YouTube is in. They've completely pivoted to the enterprise world. Who are the biggest creators on Rumble today?

1:24:15The biggest creator on Rumble today is currently active, is Steven Crowder. In terms of the amount of live streams that he's doing. His live stream numbers are consistently the highest every day. the biggest creator on rumble though by subscribers but he's no longer on the platform today is dan bongino he's the the deputy director of the fbi so he left his podcast to go become the deputy director of the fbi which he just announced the prior to coming here that he's he's going to be finishing with the fbi in january so he'll be back i'm hoping he's back he was actually the largest live streamer in america every single day in 2024 wow yeah he was across any platform across all platforms we had the largest live streamer and perhaps in the world on most days as well a lot of the days as well but definitely in america the largest live streamer doing like 160 000 people live millions of views a day one of the most influential conservative podcasters in the world in terms of views anyone left rumble yeah for sure and why would anybody leave contracts from other companies money it's usually us fighting for for talent and you know doing deals for example joe rogan he's on spotify he's uh he was never on rumble but that's an example of someone doing a huge contract to make sure he only stays on spotify So we do that too.

1:25:47We have contracts with Tim Pool, who's huge. Steven Crowder. So Tim Pool's on Rumble, but he's not on YouTube? He's on YouTube as well, but he's an exclusive show on Rumble as well at noon. So we buy content from creators to be exclusive and bring their audiences over to the platform. Tell me about music on Rumble. So in 23, 2023, where we actually got the most traction outside of the political sphere was with like hip hop commentators, hip hop artists. So one of the largest commentators out there, this guy named Academics, who I guess reports on the hip hop world, came to Rumble. So we saw like a really interesting overlap with free speech and hip hop.

1:26:36It became so popular on Rumble, and Academics is still on Rumble. Actually, he's probably one of the more popular non-political creators on Rumble. That it became so popular that the Rolling Stone wrote an article how hip-hop is turning right because they're going to Rumble. Right wing. It has nothing to do with politics. It has nothing to do with politics. Exactly. But you can search this article. It's the funniest headline. But basically, guys like DJ Academics are huge influencers in the hip-hop space talking about all the hip-hop artists and brought his show to Rumble. And simply because he believed in free speech.

1:27:13And a lot of the hip-hop artists believe in free speech. It's actually something that they are very, very, very keen on. And we saw tons of overlap and growth in that hip-hop segment. That was one segment that was one of the most easiest for Rumble to grow outside of the political world was hip-hop. And it had nothing to do with politics, just simply their desire for freedom of expression. Have there been any technological breakthroughs from the early days to now that have, like, changed everything or made it much easier? or, for example, the size of video when you were starting, how much space it took up, has that been solved?

1:27:57Is it still the same? No. It's almost, it's like little increment advances. I think we haven't had, like, this really big breakthrough in technology since probably the internet, I would say. Like, I don't think we've seen that. I think we're coming up to one, though. I think we're going to see that in the next couple of years. With AI? I think the big breakthrough, there's something that's going to come, that's going to overtake AI, and it's going to be quantum computing. Tell me about that. I don't know what that is. I think quantum computing is going to change the game. It's going to take AI to the next level.

1:28:36so ai like requires lots of power lots of processing but i think quantum computing is going to change the world forever and i don't know how how that's going to look post quantum computing but i i see that as like the big next ai and quantum computing and both ai and quantum computing combined is like a real force multiplier what's the projection on quantum computing, when does that become real? They say like five to 10 years. Some say 20, 30 years. It's really, I think everything's going to happen a lot faster than people think. I think AI is going to get really advanced in the next two years.

1:29:18I think quantum computing is here in the next five, I think, or less. I think we're going to see some real big advances very soon. What's different with quantum computing? Quantum computing is really scary and really cool at the same time, but it's just processing things at a speed that is incredibly fast. How many times what we have now? I would say millions. I don't know the answer to that, but I think it's millions. We're talking like a leap unseen. For example, I know the consequence of what it could do. It could break all our security for Bitcoin and security for banking. If we have quantum computing, it could crack the code in minutes for every password that everybody has.

1:30:08Whereas now it would take us thousands of years. So we're talking like a massive thousands times increase in speed. in building things like wallets and a financial business how do you take into account the possibility of that down the road i think a lot of people are thinking about that right now because quantum computing would break it all and you know i think that breaks down society if we don't have a solution to that so i think everything's vulnerable to quantum computing your bank accounts your, you know, crypto wallets, like everything. The question is how far away is it? And do we have enough time?

1:30:49And if it breaks everything, would it be legal? Yeah, that's another question, right? Like, but then if someone can have it in their basement, whether that's possible or not, like, we don't know. We don't know what kind of resources it'll take, but, you know, AI can have in your basement. So we'll see. but there's a lot that's going to change in the next decade and we got to be aware of what's coming and we got to prepare for it and i don't think we have quantum resistant bank accounts yet and i think we're going to need to have that a little sooner than we might think you know it could do amazing things too we're talking about it could cure probably cancer right away like run this in an ai model to figure it out and you should be able to cure all kinds of things so there's a lot of benefits there's going to be a lot of downside risk too so we're but like with anything I think that's how it always is but it'll be a very interesting world in the next decade music

1:31:48music music music music music

1:32:01music

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