Clown of Slipknot

33:17I've seen the resurgence in tapes. I mean, these kids say, they're like, look at this. It's a cassette. It's analog. And you're like, you see yourself want to get mad and be like, but with me, I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. See, the real stuff will always come back. And these kids will ask, what is an arrangement? What was Robbie Robinson doing up in this house? Well, lots of things. And throwing down music was the majority of it. And it came from a place of God, you know? And so don't mess around with Pro Tools too much. You're not really actually learning anything other than combining yourself with tech and creating a new way.

34:02And so be it. But, you know, we all get to be around. And, you know, I just did some music and my assistant told me, wow, your record is so different than everything. I'm like, it's not that it's different. It's just that I come from a school that if there's a song, what's it sound like? If the song's called Grime, what does Grime sound like? What are the drums? Like, are they in the corner of the drum room or are we putting them outside? what was what's the song what's the story what what's the sound of the guitar it's not all the same yeah so you know you go in to write a record and engineer's like what are you thinking okay it's ambient i want i want to get some cb mics underneath and when the bridge comes i want to i don't know if there's a lot of that going on i don't know if it's their fault because they just don't know because we've let a lot of us have let it go because of money studios become expensive no one wants to use tape you know you don't have to which and it's not really the music industry's problem our artists problems I just think the tech and the planet earth moves in a forward projection and I talk like this because you know I used to think I was really important I used to think like you know I'm the clown yeah you know and now you are I am I'm super important But you know what I mean?

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37:29How did you end up with nine people? You know, it was a sound. I can remember Joey and I sitting around and he'd grab me all the time after practice and be like, nine? And I'd be like, so what? And he'd be like, nine? And he knew every band on Roadrunner. He knew every band ever. Yeah. And he'd be like, you know. And he'd be like, I would always tell him, don't orchestras have more than nine people? I mean, I was at the symphony once. I swear to God there had to be 50 people. Yeah. He's like, yeah, but that's different. People fly independently. I'm like, do they? Do you know that for a fact? It's still 50 adults getting on a plane, getting somewhere to be themselves.

38:13Did you decide on nine in advance of knowing the nine people? No, no, no. Tell me how it happened. I had a vision of three drummers. I wanted a triangle. I had lost my ability to learn for a moment on drum set. I was repeating myself. I was really trying to learn. I hired a jazz drum teacher. I was really stuck in a locomotive. I was on a rail, on a certain engine with certain coal, and I just had to get off and hitchhike. so I'm a professional welder and I had a good friend that was listening and he's like hey you said you wanted to make some shit so we went in he got the the place we worked and we got it for the weekend we made took my first drum set and we got it up so I could stand up and then I had a relationship with a junkyard guy no one's supposed to be able to buy from there but I walked in and he's like you're a curious little fellow and I'm like hey man I'm in a band I want to get some kegs and stuff and he's like you're an art student right with the university I'm like yeah I'm an art student of life yeah and he's like get whatever you want put it in a pile you have cash I'm like I got cash and so I'd walk around and I'd get kegs and 30 gallon drums 50 gallon drums everything and anything that i thought had a sound so the original lead singer was a drummer too and he felt he lost his way on drumming and he felt he didn't have what it took for the technique so if they were going to do him and paul and joey all those guys were in death metal bands and andy was a drummer and he just felt he couldn't cut that drumming so he wanted to be a singer and he can growl.

40:04And to this day, he's the man. So he's like, I'm not going to give up my drumming either. And I was like, you played those. So I made him drums and I had drums and originally Slipknot was less people. And the original lead singer was the other drummer and he was more upfront. And what was wonderful about that situation is he was a very technical, if black metal, thrash. Are there musicians as well, or just the three of you? Paul Gray playing guitar, Andy Rowe playing the drums and singing, a gentleman by the name of Donnie Steele was playing guitar, and I was playing drum set. Right. And we all agreed that there was going to be a metal drummer coming in.

40:51And I always hated that, because I told him, I'm going to stand up. But, you know, I was jamming and I was, you know, so you just have to learn, you know. And then one day I was in Colorado and Andy and Paul invited Joey to come over without telling me. So I drove back from Colorado. You already knew Joey, though. Yeah, I knew him. Was this after you had seen him? Yeah, yeah, several times, yeah. So Joey was told I wasn't going to be at practice. And I left Colorado at like four in the morning, left my family, and I came to practice. My wife thought I was nuts. So I was like, Joey's not coming to my band practice.

41:27Wow. So I came and we played three songs. And I looked at him at the end. I just looked at him. I said, need me to play anything again? He goes, nah. I was like, I didn't think so. I was like, you want to use my sticks? He's like, could I? And I go, yeah. He took them. And he goes, is it OK if I play your drum set? And I was like, of course, man. That's what we're here for. And I'm big brother, man. And I'm a much different person. I'm pre-aggro, dreadlocks. I'm ready. I am. It's time for life. I got two kids. You know, it's time to get going. Either shut up or get a job. So he sits down and he goes, can I move the snare a little bit?

42:09And I go, of course. And he goes, and I was like, right? And then Paul's like, you want to jam one? He goes, let's play that last one, which was the song Sick, which is the first song we ever wrote you know man they counted that shit off and what i remember most besides what he was doing is the incredible ability to retain what those guys just played with me you know it was like a tornado hit my life you know i was just like i have no idea what's happening right now but i was so impressed on the he just heard it once i was the drummer disregarded taken to a level of insanity one time through from beginning to end and i just didn't know talent like that i didn't know practice like that i didn't know talent so we did a bunch of things and then i got on the drums with the singer and joey was just laughing he loved it and we got done with practice and we went outside and I go to Joey I go okay are you in or out he goes I gotta think about it and I'm pretty aggro person I got right up in his face I go what do you mean you gotta think about there's no thinking about you're either in or you're out that's not how this works son you know I'm like we got problems what do you mean you you gonna put me on hold you know put paul gray on hold like that i swear rick it took it wasn't 10 years it might have been five six seven years maybe around the time we did an album with you yeah he told me once you know we're having a drink or something he goes hey can i tell you something i go oh you gonna give me something in life you know he goes yeah i'll give you something you're gonna like it i go what he goes you know that day you asked me if i you know wanted in i told you i'm gonna think about it i go yeah that might have started me and you off in a bad way you and me you know and we're laughing and he goes well the truth is that if you wouldn't have let me in the band i would have taken your idea and started the son of a bitch i would have done it i'm like what do you mean you would have done it and he's like i would have got paul i would have done the three drummer thing but a little different i was like you know now we're arguing again you know but i was like thanks man thanks you know and he goes bro I just practiced and did my thing and had played with so many people and then you show up with three drums and you're you know because I was in right away man you know I'm playing just like I play now yeah you know just really you know so and then what happened was we were like Paul's gonna play bass so we need another guitar player why did Paul switch to bass because paul's originally a guitar player yeah and maybe he just wasn't gonna be as good as he needed to be as fast as we were moving i see he was a genius and if he wanted to get up every day and practice more he could do anything but he you know he's you know we were slow moving together you know so bass was easier he could write and joey and paul were always like, no, this is starting.

45:31So we got the drums. Paul's like, I'm going to have to do the bass to communicate and write the riffs with Joey, and we're going to need guitar players. So we got a guitar player that was in Joey's band. His name was Josh Brainerd. Josh Brainerd is actually on our first album. He quit after we came home. We went back to Indigo Ranch with Ross Robinson for another three months to redo one song, Spit It Out, and that's when Jim came. And we redid Spit It Out at the same tempo, but the version we did in Des Moines ourselves just smokes all of it. So they had to keep it, you know, and no one was really happy about it because you got this album made up at Indigo Ranch, but then you have this song that got assigned that we recorded ourselves that you can't recreate.

46:21So if you go to the first album, self-titled the version that is on the self-titled spit it out is our original record recorded in des moines iowa so sid was added to it and ross and joey did a mix so it's you know a different version as far as quality but just to give you a little information the reason why it happened was Ross when we pre-pro'd and recorded we did a faster version and a slower version but he didn't do one the same tempo because he thought you have this I see then we went away and the label's like no to the fast one no to the slow one we should really try to get one the same they spent all the money to try to get it and you just couldn't create because it's magic it was our when Rick When we were in the basement and that happened, we stopped and looked at each other.

47:19And we all knew something entered reality. And it was different. It's the greatest. It was the greatest. I tell people it's never been better than that. That's it. Never been better than that. I remember looking at people and we only got half the song. We played it 50 times, 30, 50 times to try and get somewhere. But we only got to like half. We were all so excited to come in the next day. Four days later, wait and bleed. You know, just start and roll. A week later, liberate. A week later, no life. Just now, it's just, you know, we're revising now, like poetry. We're like, let's go back to sick and look at a few things.

47:58And oh, man, spit it out. Just, yeah. Can we listen to that? Yeah.

48:06Did you never give a damn in the first place? Maybe it's time you went to the table's turn. Cause in the interest of all evolved I got the promise solved And the first is guilty Bad vanilla cowl made Don't my way of here to try Stop, top, and roll You went down from the get-go Bit mouthed, burn up Till my god stuck right Scared at me now Then you tell me that I thought Always is and never was Don't measure me to be some vinegar Stop telling me I smell you Think I fear you're bullshit Just another dumb bone Drop it out this shit Is there nothing but it Break through the noise Whether it's true to the sand You got your band Gotta be that way If you want it Sanity, literal for vanity Back Back It All you wanna do Shade me down All you wanna do is stamp you out Smash Get out All you wanna do is shut me down All you wanna do is stamp you out Baby, here's the way you gotta spread a lot of room I'm trying to keep all your loving spots I'm leaving when you realize Step up third, I guess it's time to bury your ass With a chrome straight to the dome You hear me right, bitch, I think it's done And if you know it's good, just shut up and vague For the backstab, don't you know you're just Dissensize, I'm gonna be no Yeah, I'm such a good shot Big, big, big, big boy, yeah, boy, yeah I don't hear shit, cause I can't sit and out Come on, get a face full of tactics, living a bar going home in a basket You gotta pull the power, no nothing, nice to shit Well ain't that something, pay off the store for take And you can end if you want, but I'll find you coming up behind you Smash it out All you wanna do is shut me down All you wanna do is stamp you out Smash it out All you wanna do is shut me down All you wanna do is stamp you out

50:06Outro Music

50:14gerek.

50:42So that's the first song. That's the one that when you hear Corey, you don't. That's what did it. That was the one no one could quit humming. And, you know, Corey was fairly new to being in Slipknot. Original lead singer left. Corey was in. Month or so in, Spit It Out's written. So even if you were going to do it later, you would never get that conviction of someone trying out for something he wants in his life. There's a whole other reason to come to bat. Being asked to come to bat for a different reason, you're going to get different results. That's my career. And I wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for Corey.

51:24Yes, I believe in everything musically. I mean, we're Slipknot. But, you know, my partner, my bro, he brought that melody, and we were able to make the flower, so to speak, the pollen, the petals, the whole deal. When the lights go down, the body gets to work. Sleep is not passive time. It's an active biological state, one in which the brain clears metabolic waste, The nervous system resets, and the body begins repair at a cellular level. During sleep, muscles recover. Hormones that regulate growth, metabolism, and stress are released. Memory is consolidated. Immune activity increases. After years of research and development, AG1 has formulated AGZ.

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53:43What was the first show you guys ever did? The first show we did was a Thursday night in a bar that I ended up buying to get us signed. It was called Safari. It's next to a law college called Drake University. I live right down the street, sort of inner, not sort of, inner city. Yeah. Maybe about eight blocks from where it went down, you know, every night. The bar, I knew the owner, a good friend of mine. I said, look, we all grew up in this bar in the south side. It's too far. I'm going to create a new scene. We got to do a new thing. You have bands here. I want a Saturday night. He's like, I'll give you a Thursday.

54:23So like, all right, whatever. So we get a Thursday and I ask him, I say, hey, can I come down and clean the stage and the bar? And he's like, what are you talking about? I'm like, dude, I'm like, you got every band who ever played. Like, they're not even good flyers. They're ripped up and there's staples everywhere. Drumsticks. I'm like, there's a glass of piss. I'm like, I'll do it for free. I'm like, my band's playing, man. It's got to be on. He's like, you're nuts. gives me the key. I go in there. I clean the whole place with my kids and we're pulling staples and want it to look nice. I get the wires done.

54:56So we have a show and I say all this because we play, we get about 150 people there, maybe 50 to 150. I don't know. We could watch the video and Corey Taylor's there and we throw down. What's your reaction? People are just like, We're a lot scarier. Okay. I mean. How could you be scary? We're scary because we have no, there's no rules. Yeah. And we have no care of the outcome. We have no money. Yeah. We have no fame. We only have each other. Yeah. It's us against you. Yeah. And I am going to take these sparks and I'm going to fly sparks over the crowd. I'm going to do it. You can't stop me. I know it's Des Moines, Iowa, and I'm probably going to go to jail, but this is what's happening.

55:40So we were just, we were, you know, the original singer wore a fur that used to be my aunt's, like this shawl. It had all these minks and he wore it over long underwear. And then he'd go get Boonesbury wine and gaff tape it up. And it was scary. We were slower and we just, we had a thing and people couldn't move. And we would always come in through the front. So we'd start the sampling and everyone would move. And then we would come in through the front and, you know, clown would show up. Push your way through the crowd. And I'd push some biggest guy could just get my hands on his face and go.

56:21Wow. And he'd be like, turn around. And then he'd go, oh my God, what is this? And, you know, there he would be. We get on stage. Corey Taylor's at the first show. Comes up to me afterwards and he goes, bro, that just changed my life. We're playing tomorrow. we don't have an opener. Do you guys want to play? And I was like, yeah, let me talk to the band. We don't do anything. I don't do anything that's not planned. Yeah. But if I can get a hold of everyone. Until the show starts. That's right. That's right. That's right. Absolutely. So I tell them, everyone's still here. Maybe we can plan this.

56:55Okay. Because I'll just leave the fucking equipment here and we'll come in and throw down. So it works out. So we open up for Stone Sour, You know, and I don't know if people know that. I'm proud of this, you know? That's great. And because that shows you how invested Corey was in his own career. You know, that's his other band. And we - And that band predates Slipkest. Yes, yes, 100%. And I'm so proud of that. Yeah. So we open up and they play. We have a great night. More people come. They have a crowd. We get done. Corey's, this guy comes up and goes, hey, I want you and Corey's band to play over at this house.

57:34We're getting kicked out and it's getting demolished. So we're going to break it up. And I was like, it's not planned. We're not doing it. I'm not doing it. Sounds risky. Like, what do you mean it's getting demolished? I'm like, no, no, no. So I decline. I'm like, two's enough. We're going to regroup. So everyone goes to the party. I got kids. I go home and I get a call three in the morning. It's Paul Gray. He's like, my brother got arrested at that party. and so did my best friend Frank. Go bail him out. I was like, get out of here. What do you mean go bail him out? He's like, go bail him out.

58:07You got the money. I'm like, man, how much is it? He's like, you know, it seemed like a million dollars. It was like 350 bucks. I was like, all right, I'll see what I can do. So I go over to my dad. I'm like, I'm sorry, man. Got a couple of bros in jail. He's like, no problem. Can't have your friends in jail. Gives me the money. I go down. Cops aren't very nice. You know, I'm like, hey, I'm here to do this. They're like, sit on. They'll be out here in about an hour. So who's there? Corey Taylor sitting right there. And I go, fancy seeing you. He goes, yeah, who are you here, Bill? I'm like, Tony Gray, Frank Plumlee.

58:41He's like, yeah, I'm here to get Junior. And Corey Taylor and I got to sit down for two hours and talk. He didn't know, but I was like, where are you from? Where's your mom? Where's your dad? Did you go to high school? How long have you been singing? What's your favorite music? What do you want to do when you grow up? What are you doing with Stone Sour? You know, I just really enjoyed his company. We just got off so well. And then when the time came, everything, all hell was breaking loose with our original singer. We already had a crowd of 1 ,500 people probably. And all hell broke. How long did that take?

59:15You know, we were big. I started the band when I was 26. And I helped get it signed right at 29. And I was on the road at 30. So a couple years. And then he quit. Well, he was on his way out, and everybody was like, what are we going to do? And I'm like, there's only one thing to do if we're serious. And they're like, what? I'm like, Corey Taylor. You know, everyone's like, that'll never happen. Da-da-da-da-da-da. You know, he likes this type of music. Da-da-da-da-da. I'm like, man, I'll go talk to him. So we went from a studio. Mick Thompson, guitar player, shows up unannounced. And it's like, hey, guys, what's going on?

59:52We're like, Andy's more or less just quit the band. and we're going to go over to the adult podium, which is a porn store where Corey worked nighttime shift. I'm going to ask him if he wants to try out for the band. And he's like, what? So we drive out there and Joey and Mick go do their thing. And I go up and Corey sees us from the security camera. And he's like, what are these dudes doing here? We always wore jackets, little knot jackets with numbers. So people ought to be like, there's three of them here. When did the numbers start? Real early. Because it just, we wanted a gang, man. you know it's not about sean or paul it's just like number six yeah number six you know clown it's like quit talking to me about my name it's like i'm here to talk about slipknot and this is one way to get to it but i'm just number six you know what i mean it's like we're not here to talk about my military school upbringing we're here to talk about my dedication with my brothers so get with it ask me another sports question and i'm out yeah it's just that simple and that's how we did So numbers, barcodes, a couple logos.

1:00:52I wrote a piece. Was your number six related to the prisoner at all? No. You know, I was pretty diverse in numerology. In a lot of tarot, six is the sun and nine is the moon. And, you know, I just always knew six was nine upside down. And I just felt like everything happens at six, you know, from zero to nine and come back around. You know, one insinuates two. If you have two, why not? Three. Four is church. Five things are molecular. Six, it's happening. It's going on. It's on fire. seven we're on our way we're flying through the solar system eight getting ready to settle down nine we might as well be at zero insinuates rebirth so i just like all things in slipknot i let all choose first yeah i remember mick on i'm number seven it's my lucky number i will no one else can be seven and it's like dude you're seven joey's like i'm number one i'm like of course you are of course you are paul's like well if he gets me number one i'm number two and i'm like you guys are both dorks i'm like go ahead you got to be number one and two they're like what are you and i'm like you know what i am everybody knows what i am and everybody had already decided and i'm like they're like what what hasn't been taken i'm like six man they're like because six is a pretty it's a number that's around a lot yeah and you know they take it dark but i don't care Take it biblical.

1:02:24Take it where you need to, because I am. It's what I've established, and it's the only thing that's going to represent me. And then Sid got in the band, and we're like, you know, him and I were having a little moment. He's very challenging, which I like. He pushes. And you should be pushed. And he's pushing me a little bit on the numbers, right? I go, so what number are you? Because I'm ready to shut him down. You're not going to be 12. You're not going to be 13. He just looks me right in the face and goes, zero. And at that moment, zero hadn't even crossed my mind. And when he took it, it was like pages were written in a Bible.

1:03:02It was like, of course you are. Yeah. So if you think about it, we're nine guys, but we're zero through eight. And then when the singer left, we had to have a singer. That added a number because we had to get someone to play the drums because Corey wasn't going to play those drums like the original singer. then Craig was an original guitar player who replaced Donnie and when he left it was like don't leave just be a sampler do the web stuff do be proactive but you do the 808s you do the here comes the pain Sid will do the scratching the jungle and then Sid came in and that's when I was telling you Joey would just be like nine what are we doing because Joey literally would be like they're not going to give us enough tour support I'm like what the fuck is tour support part of my language but i'm just like what is tour support he's like you're so weird like you don't know and i'm like what is it you want he's like i want to get signed i'm like what does that mean he's like i want to get a record label and i was like do you mean like the big w on the back of diver down warner brothers he's like exactly i'm like well yeah i like that label interscope and he's like no i'm gonna get you a list i'm like bro i'll just go to a bank and get a loan he's like it doesn't work that way I'm like well how's it work he's like they set up interviews they I'm like you know too much you know I'm like you're so dorky you like what are you talking about like money spends you want a bus we'll get a bus like yeah he's like you're dumb get this so I had to learn and I still have the piece of paper he wrote down all the labels American was there there was all kinds of stuff but it was Roadrunner first and then it was Interscope second because I'm an art guy and Manson was over there, TV on the radio.

1:04:49Yeah, yeah, yes. I was like, if we're going to get big, let's get big like that. Let's be art and, you know, let's not get held down to where I'm wearing makeup for my whole career. And then all the bands, I'll leave their names out of it, but all the bands, man, they hated on us. Why? They're like, well, there's jealousy because we just threw down. We annihilated anything in our path. Yeah. Even our parents. You get on my stage, you're going down. I tell cameramen, I'm like, you get on this stage, I'm going to drop kick you and I'm going to put you in my legs until I squeeze something out of you.

1:05:25And they're like, whatever. I'd drop kick him. I'd have a camera guy on the floor. He'd be tapping out. I'd be like, bro, this is Slipknot stage, man. This isn't for kids. This is, I leave my family to come up here for God and God tonight is 50 minutes. It's not even 60 minutes, man. I drove 12 hours to get here in a broken down bus. Get off my stage. I'm going to live life. Would everyone else participate in the mayhem? Oh, man. Rick, the best you could ever see Slubknot is on a stage this big right here. We played on stages from that window to this window. We're like guillotines. just you're like how are they not hitting hits so many people on such a we are just so connected the one thing we do is that stage i'm only speaking for me yeah but you feel like the best version of slipknot is on the stage we are truly remarkable it's performance it's truly us against everyone for ourselves yeah it's every man in the band saying i'm gonna give 190 for me because i worked hard to get here yeah and if i don't this is i might as well go get a chili dog and ride that ride and go watch something i don't want to watch yeah yeah has anyone ever gotten herded a show oh man dude see this this is a broken bicep ripped the rubber band right in half I grabbed a keg I designed my keg to not have recoil and it was like a possession had come I had grabbed the keg and I was so connected to frequency and life and love and I grabbed the keg and on my parents grave something pulled it back it can't pull back it's not designed to pull back it's got limp cables and it pulled back my arm bent an L and I ripped the bicep muscle the rubber bands there's two of them right here hence bicep and it was like lightning it was like I got shot in the head with lightning it was like a giant storm of lightning it hurt it was very quick but it overtook my whole body, that pain, and it was gone.

1:07:53And I was like, I broke my arm. I broke my arm. And then I was like, no, I can move my fingers. Oh, maybe I'm moving my fingers because, you know, I'm one. Yeah. And maybe, you know, maybe the shit's screwed. And then I went up to my drums, and I saw that there was a certain way I could move, and I had no idea. And people were, like, vomiting. I'd be like, hey, is there something wrong with my arm? and people would be like so I had to yeah I wake up in Virginia the next day they get me a doctor and the doctor's like you need surgery right away I'm like not in Virginia no offense they're like bro you can't do any more shows I'm like listen to me man I have a doctor in LA okay this guy takes 18 vials of blood he punishes me he is gonna give me a referral okay i've no i'm i just need to know so i can call him he's like oh you're you're broke in half man and i did eight shows i did eight shows in that with that wow and the reason why i could do it is because i could hold a stick i don't need a bicep if i could push this against and just go don't use a bicep use your wrist yeah and then this guy it's like bro you need to be on fire He's got a whole card.

1:09:12I'd throw him up in the air, and I'd be like, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. And I'd play my parts. But at least three, four times a show, I'd move wrong and then lightning. So I had to get a surgery, and I have a herniated disc right now. I'm in so much pain all day. And yeah, I mean, Sid, he jumped off, broke his heels like the sun. Like, wow. But he landed evenly and broke both his heels. You know, just, I mean, like this. Which was, they said, is great because it could heal evenly. But can you imagine? The pain. He did every show. Humbly. You know how we did that? He'd crawl out.

1:09:57And people would just be, like, sick to their stomach. They'd be so scared of that. He'd be like, just flying across. Or I'd bring him out in a wheelchair, and then I'd dump him. I'd be like, you know? So we adorn our missiles, our detonations or whatever. I'd have to say one thing I want to say about stories. You know, one thing I've learned as I've gotten older, you know, everybody kind of wants to change the narrative a little bit. And I have to do my best to say out loud, I've lived this experience, but I can only recall it the way I remember. and you know how the industry and the world just tries to push you to say I and me and I did this and it's me.

1:10:42And so I just try to do my best to keep everybody involved in it. Less I and me and more shared. Because that's the way I feel it all is anyway. Of course. It doesn't matter if I dropped a FedEx off. It was for the band.

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1:12:29Who's the first member of the band to pass away? Paul. And when was that? You know, Rick, I try not to remember. Yeah. It's been, it's been over 10 years now. Yeah. I reunited with his daughter October. She was in her mom's belly when he passed. And I wanted to wait until she was a little bit older. So I've taken her to the Grammys. And she's 13. So it's been a minute. And he was the person that you started with. Yep. Yeah, he's the whole reason I'm sitting here. Yeah. He hijacked me from my art career. What do you do when that happens? so many people innately wanted to say so blindly, well, you know, Paul would want you to go on.

1:13:20And I wouldn't say much. And then finally I had enough. And I'm like, did anyone think that maybe I might not want to go on without my friend? And just to be honest, sitting here today, man, I mean, you know, I don't know how much more longer I have because it's just the new guys, they're not new guys. They're people. They're my friends, and I got them in. And they're great. They're wonderful. I love them. And we have such a great time, and good things are happening. But if it's no better than writing that song in a basement, it's certainly no better without one of my best friends, who was the genius.

1:14:00Him and Joey, they're two of the greatest hard rock writers of all time. And here I am, you know, the art guy. you know, and probably hate it the most because I have to do hard things. I have to be part of hard decisions. And I'm okay with doing that because I'm not going to live lies. I, for myself, I have to live truth. So I'm willing to partake in hard decisions in life, you know, but But we, I guess we did it, you know? And we, instead of writing an album and instead of doing anything, we went on tour and did the grieving with our fans. So we probably toured a couple years independently of an album or anything just to put his bass on stage and have two minutes of silence.

1:14:53That must have felt great. Oh, it was, what was really nice was derailing ourselves off of the big machines. for love and reality, the human condition. Like, don't tell me what I got to do. You made me feel important. Now I'm awake, so I'm really deadly now. And if you're not careful, this is what we're going to do. I don't need an album. We don't need anything. We are who we are. Book a show. And everyone felt the same, but we made a thing of it. So would you say the shows were like a tribute to him? Yeah, they all were every day. We're like Denver. What's up? We haven't been here since Paul's past.

1:15:33What's up? Boom, this is for Paul. Big banners, things. Beautiful. Nice. And no, you know, I wouldn't let people ask me questions about it. This was life. Yeah. Really hard, man. We, you know, I got the call at my house and I drove my car. I was doing laundry and I remember I had to put on these Adidas, Italian Adidas that I had. and there were football shoes. They weren't doing it. I remember everything was gone, and I had to go see my friend in these weird clothes because everything was whatever, and I was so mad. It wasn't a fashion show. I wasn't comfortable. I remember pulling up to the place, and I didn't put my car in park.

1:16:18Starts rolling away. It was just pushing against the curb. Yeah. I had already walked to the back of it. Wow. I was like, whoa, whoa. People were like, you're fucking your car. And I was like, I was just out. And then, you know, I saw his wife. She was eight months pregnant. And she started screaming, why is there a clown? Why is there a detective here? And I looked over and there was this great big man. He was just straight up like Clint Eastwood. Like, had the suit. Wow. Had the handle. The gray suit. The badge on the belt. You know, Dirty Harry. And he's walking our way. He's a big dude. Dude, he looks official, like different.

1:17:01He's not 5-0. Like, this is some other shit. I see him to see what she's talking about. And then I look at her and she's going down. She's just on her way down. So I run over there and I put my arm under her belly. And if I remember right, I got around her in the back. And then I'm like, I started telling her immediately, like, you're pregnant. Whatever, you got to breathe right now. We're not doing this. This isn't it. So we got into a motion, and I was able to get her down. And then all the worst things from there. I went in. I thought I was going to get to see my friend. This guy took me in a stairway, and I realized he was questioning me.

1:17:48And I was crying, and I got up, and I go, you're questioning me. And he goes, son, listen to me. We don't know how your friend passed. You could be a drug dealer. You could be trying to go in there and erase some evidence. I'm like, you're right. I'm out of here. I'm not talking to you anymore. Yeah. But thank you. I hope, you know, this all works out. So what a cliche in rock and roll, too. You know, like, we did the album with you, Subliminal Verses. And then the next album was All Hope is Gone. And I did a photo shoot in an abandoned school. And above the doorway, it said All Hope is Gone. and I took a picture with my gun.

1:18:29And it was just my way of the world, just letting everybody know that on my sideshow, I'm paranoid, by myself, only child, freaked out, leave me alone. I didn't make it through school. That's why I live here. And it says all hope is gone. And then I saw my pictures and I told Paul Brown, the photographer, I go, hey man, go back to the school and take the ego heads. I made these papier-mâché heads of our faces for death masks that we use for our album for vermilion we would wear death masks so i made these giant death masks i called them ego heads because when we're not together we think highly of ourselves and we just get out so i wanted to get together and light those fuckers on fire so anyway i told him i go take the heads to the stairway under that all hope is gone and get a picture it's worthy i go i go i'm not a real fan of that i go i'll put money that some general said that or some lieutenant on a beach all hope is gone you know i go i don't want them to do that he does and he comes back to show everybody the pictures and i go watch this paul i go these guys are going to want to call the album this so we throw it down and corey taylor goes all hope is gone let's call the album that and Joey goes Joey goes I was gonna say that and I looked at Joey and I go but you didn't and I was like yeah and he's like I swear to God I was like whatever man the history books will say that Corey Taylor said it and and and I told him I go I knew both you guys were gonna say this and I get it we're in Slipknot I go but even the clown thinks there's hope.

1:20:13I'm like, do you think we should be the kind of band that doesn't promote hope? Seriously, are we so weird pushing ourselves so much to be anti? What about our kids, man, out there that carve and that we have to talk to and get them straight, you know? And they're like, it's all hope is gone. Paul died after that tour and I knew. I was like, oh, okay. It wasn't for the kids it was what I'm like what a cliche I'm like this is horrible this is VH1 I can't stand it this is absolutely no good took me I stopped jamming all together with everybody that I was doing I just thought I'd study myself with Slidma and see how I could do and then you know it it turned out the other way with Joey you know same thing it just it kept going you know and I'm number one and I'm number two.

1:21:12If you're number one, then I'm number two. Okay. Guys should be careful. Wow. Yeah. It's that real. I'm not important, but it's real. You know what I mean? It's the web I'm in and the voltage that we've let out in the form of frequency, electricity and the loss and the love. and it's real in a way that hurts. And people die, you know what I mean? But like, why do I deserve to be here when two of my favorite hard rock writers of all time, what? It's just a weird path life.

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1:23:32Tell me about the audience. Best people in the world. I was telling the story last night that I sort of wanted a crowd. At the military school, you weren't supposed to wear rock and roll shirts underneath your dress shirts. So I always loved the kids who had the guts to wear the Metallica shirt underneath. I was too scared of getting beat and I had a mouth. I just had to be good as much as I could. But man, I'd be like, underneath that Oxford, there's a freaking Metallica shirt and a creeping death. And here we go. That's who I wanted maggots to be. I want to make music for the people that absolutely needed it if they were put in a situation they didn't care for.

1:24:14And that meant it was their life. And that's who I wanted to be. So, for instance, we played at Iowa State Fairground. It used to be the biggest fair, one of the biggest fairs in the world. We finally played there after all my years. and the city of Des Moines so worried that all the black shirts are going to come to the fair. And oh no, what's going to happen with this devil music or this heavy, whatever they think it is. Okay, well, guess what? The black shirts come in, they do an aerial. You can see it filtering in the hog house, moving over to the chicken coop over here by A &W Rookbeer. Look at it.

1:24:53It's just in just taking over the grounds. Not one arrest, not one fight, not one death. No one's hurt. Nothing. Zero. No cops. Nothing. The next night, it's some country band. We got fistfights. Someone goes to jail because they brought a gun. And all that hardcore country is getting it done. And it's the fair. So a little bit of drinking, a little bit of whatever, but not anything on the Slipknot. So what I could tell you is these are people that need music. You feel like the music is therapeutic? Yeah, they need music more than they need to give their opinion about someone looking down on them in front of the popcorn stand.

1:25:38Yeah. You are not going to get in my way of my favorite band. I work so hard at my store that I'm here, and I'm not going to get in trouble because of you. I'm going to go get my church, and I'm going to feel better about myself tomorrow, and I'm going to go do the best I can. Because that's why we are as big as we are, is because people know that we don't do anything for anybody but ourselves, and they trust that. They might not like every decision we make, but they know that because we made it and we stand by it, we're a trustworthy organization that's not going to overturn itself on you. We're here because of the kids, you know, the fans, the community.

1:26:24It's interesting that people who don't understand the music view it as a negative thing when you see how much people need it and love it. And maybe it's the only place they feel like they belong. I'm going to stop crying. It's true, man. And Rick, the reason why they, the ones that talk that don't get it, it's just because they're void. They didn't have it. It's not their fault. I don't even know if music can save it. You know, we are the world. I don't know. I feel more disconnected than it is. Tell me about the art you make outside of music. It's a problem. The art I make outside is a problem because that's what I was going to do.

1:27:08Is I wanted to get a PhD and tenure at some fancy college. I was going to wear some weird glasses. I was going to know more about Salvador Dali and Matisse and Edward Munch than anyone on the planet. Impressionistic painting was going to be my expertise. If the History Channel needed an expert, they were going to call me. I was going to know everything. And I was already on my way. The only thing keeping me is I got some sort of speech thing. I think I just didn't pay attention in all the classes I needed to. So if you're going to be into impressionistic painting, you better be able to pronounce French painters' names and cathedrals and stuff.

1:27:49And I just, that was going to be a lot of work. But I wanted, you know, I wanted to date college girls and have fun, drink beer, and just be that real liberal, crazy professor. So Slipknot destroys everything in my path, you know? And I told people I could say that to you, and I told people that you were one of the few They would understand and would laugh because it's just, you know, what are you going to do when you make, when you help create something that gives as much as it does? And it literally powerhouses. I could go on and on. Right now, I'm currently suffering from Slipknot. Just get out of the way.

1:28:31You know, like, you're not doing that. How dare you think you're going to do that? I don't. Would you say that Slipknot has a life of its own? Oh, it's so big, bro. It's so, it's fucking, it's like Van Halen VH. It's like the Van Halen logo. Yeah. You don't even need to see A-N-Halen. You just see, boof, boof. And you're like, God, look at that. That's a wave. It's like a Peterbilt semi, you know? the dog and stuff like van halen that's how big we are it's like tribal s like slipknot you know you hear one bar of tone on the radio like could it be you hear that slipknot tone one bar could this be new slipknot that's big and now you see people all over the world all over the world wearing masks it's a whole movement it is and yet

1:29:37that's probably my zero right like it's all so big and i'm just zero like you know i mean how do you deal with it you know like i haven't found the comfortableness and like you know we're big and it's bigger than me and i'm the clown and here i am but so what you know what i mean you know what i mean it's just weird it's yeah i learned so much of things i can't put into words to what i would call people are just grinding i'm i'm picking up life skills yeah you know i've met a couple million people yeah like pardon me if i barf your hands really wet you know i love you and i'll give you the shirt off my back but i watched you pick your nose.

1:30:21I've watched you for 40 minutes and now you're here and you're like, you know, man, I'm going to vomit, but give me a hug. I love you. So it's just, man, who knew, man? Who knew? I've already accepted that I'm not going to get anything I want in life. I'm married 33 years. I'm blessed. My favorite person in the world is my wife. Four kids, two girls, two boys. I've got it all, but who knows? tell me more about the art you make. I know you make art outside of Slipknot though. I think I can explain it really quick. Like I've been really like trying to solidify my art quicker in case anything ever happens to me.

1:31:01And I haven't done very good speaking about it because people make me angry. So I go right to 11 and, and I just, that's not the way to do it. I should have slowed down and, you know, I should have let people know, like I would never use AI to write a Slipknot song because why would I ever do that? I don't need to do that. But what I do is I look for the glitch in anything in life and there's glitches in AI. And I picked up very early that it was going to get smarter. So I figured the early days when, you know, you could get 30 fingers that this is where we need to be. So I'm way ahead of the curve.

1:31:45So what I did was I just sort of started art that encompassed everything. So I started with some words. I went deep in my head. What do I want to see? What's the collection of the familiarity of life, the database, the machine? Hello, I'm your pocket producer. What would you like to see? and all of a sudden and i'm like oh my god who knew but it's not anything it's not human it's interesting to the human but it's not that i'm gonna even look at it again so i start there i do a big print and then i get a stencil of it and then i spray paint over it just slowly destroying it, the human on demanufacturing on all these other layers that could be judged as, I don't know, cheating or not creating.

1:32:42I don't know, but I know that I'm going to get in the machine. And so by the end of it, I've gone kindergarten. So by the end of it, I've introduced poetry, script, coding, prompts, painting, photography. But basically everything I try to master as a Renaissance man, I get it all in there and then I end with finger painting. And I fold it and then I end it. And that's the last layer on that conglomerate of learning and life. The first layer was the recent layer of teaching of reality. I'm sure when we went green screen, people were as easily angry as they are with AI. Why do they allow the green screen in Marvel movies?

1:33:32It's fake as hell. So that's what I'm doing as of lately is combining all my talents and smacking them down into one knowledge that makes you really have to decide. I think when you take someone who doesn't need AI and can create anything, but then takes AI, creates, and then creates everything and brings everything of one canvas, what happens is hopefully I'm going to make you think more about all of it. Yeah. Instead of just AI is taking away jobs and it's not real. It's just like, look, I don't disagree. Okay. But everything in life created by humans has a possibility and it is doing good things.

1:34:23Maybe it's doing more bad things. I don't know. But it's a tool. It's a tool. And I'm telling you as a human being, that tool is no good without you. 100%. It's no good without you. It doesn't print. It doesn't translate. It doesn't sing. It's not in time. It's not even real. But it is a good start. It's a tool. Especially if you can't get someone on the phone or maybe money's a little, you just need to get some things. I love the idea of getting a head start. So I'm really into that. And then there's a game, Minecraft. You've had to have heard of it. So Minecraft gives you the ability to use the engine to make your own.

1:35:01And so I have invented a world known as Vern Earth and I've taken the engine of Minecraft and I have flipped it. Because I know a little bit of coding from the day I'm 56. I was there when it all started. So I've taken Minecraft and turned it on its head. I think it's probably one of the biggest pieces of art I've ever done in my life because I've gone in and changed their parameters. So for example, they have a pig, right? I went in and changed the skin of the pig to glass. But what I did was I took their glass block and I took the skin of the glass block, their art, off the glass block and I gave it to the pig.

1:35:42So now the pig is glass, but their glass block, not some glass block I made, I'm using theirs. So you have that familiarity of their color and their scratch. You're getting mine because I made the glass big, but I'm using their block. So you still feel comfortable within their world. But what I have created, oh, my, I never knew. Can other people see it? Oh, yeah, yeah. People are playing. I got kids playing with me now. It's online. Oh, great. I've released it. It's called Vern Earth, and you need a Microsoft account, like you would any game. Yeah. And you need to buy a Minecraft. Yeah. And then once you own both of those, like you would Steam or any game, you type in my server, and then you come on and see the clowns on it at 3.30 in the morning making an iron farm.

1:36:30And you're like, hi, do you have cows? I'm like, I'll bring some over. And I go over and grab some cows and I'm helping you herd it. And you're like a Slipknot fan going, uh. Amazing. Is this real? And I'm like, of course it's real. How much time do you get to spend doing that? I spend half the day on it. Really? It's all dedication to my mom. She was into science fiction. She had a world and I made her, she passed of dementia and Alzheimer's and T.I. strokes. And I had asked her if she ever had written a book around science fiction. She said no. And I asked her to write one before she passed.

1:37:03So she did. And it's very intense. And it's too intense for me to take on without a team. So I decided that I would birth the world from it. And as I got more organized, then we could say that this was from here. And then I could bring people over there. So that's, I've been working on it for four years. I'm on it every minute I can be. If my wife is watching TV, I will be working on Vern Earth. It's like a soldering board, but it's digital. The things that go on in Minecraft, you can't even, it's based off of automation. So you can trap the automation and you can get the machine making things for you out of your creation and then you show up and you're like you made an iron farm and I have all this iron since I woke up and it's mind-blowing the creativity and the mind that goes on yeah in this and and I all my kids played it and I made a roller coaster and it's all slipknot themed and And I'm really trying to help behavioral health and mental health awareness.

1:38:15So I'm there monitoring people the way they talk and, you know, because I have kids of my own and, you know, games aren't. There's a lot of bad stuff that goes on. How has being a father changed you? Well, that's a hard one because I'm on a path. I end up telling people these days don't have kids unless you're prepared to look at them one day and realize that you're going to know that you're not going to be there for them. And these are the facts that I tell you about. This is what won't let me get up in the morning is these thoughts of not being here for the people that need me. I can't handle these sort of life lessons.

1:38:59so being a dad and losing a child i just it's a fragile thing now and it's been ruined you know if one of my kids just randomly wants to call me up at 11 at night to say i love you i see the name and i just go to negative you know i figure this is not a good call this late at night. Somebody's hurt, something. And there's a, I don't know, it can't be a disorder, but I don't think it's a phobia. It's like a, I don't think it's a disease, but there's a thing where people can't be happy because they are convinced that something bad's gonna happen one minute. And honestly, I have that. I have that.

1:39:47And it happens to me every week where just two weeks ago, I was in the studio and I was just, man, I was feeling good. And then my assistant gets a phone call and she's, you know, what, where are you? And I was like, who is it? And she's like, Chantel. And my wife fell and cut her head open, 12 staples. And I told her, I go, man, I actually was calm. I started relaxing. And right when it happened, you called. And it's not your fault. I'm just telling you, I'm cursed. I guess where I'm at now, really, because I think I'm being groomed to be strong for the day I need to be strong. And I don't know when that is.

1:40:26I don't know if that's my death day, but life has made me incredibly strong. Yeah. And I literally drive around in my car laughing, thinking, you know, I have no one to talk to. Everyone's human. What's someone going to tell me that I'm not going to tell them? You know what I mean? Like, I get it. I've got it. Like, I've already, I've been here. So it's a very frustrating place to know, like, you can't even bitch. But I know it's for higher purposes, so I go with it. And I'm figuring, wow, I made it this far. Maybe I will make it the whole way. I read somewhere that Rihanna said that Slipknot was her favorite band.

1:41:08Yeah, that, I wouldn't know where it is now, but a long time ago, she would wear patches. We have a lot. Lady Gaga. We're starting to be pop culture now. You know, we're going to start having that poster on the wall on the TV show, you know, next to Metallica, next to Guns N' Roses. So it's happening. You know, it is. Do you feel like you're always in creative mode? Mm-hmm. I'm a mess. That's all I am. It's just mixed up. If you could just set me off all day long and then have a cot and just go, you know you're going to fall down. And I'll be like, yeah. And then sure enough, you'll come in and I'll be toast.

1:41:49All I do, I cook, I create. I take a shower, I create. I'm a gardener, so I get to work with succulents and cactuses now. How'd you get into gardening? My mom was a master gardener. She always told me that when I understood that I could give life as a man, that I'd get addicted. And, you know, you can give life to a plant from a seed, and I did. suddenly that plant when the raccoon was trying to take my my my tomato i took it a little personal i'm like dude i grew this thing you can have a tomato but you need to ask you need to take my stuff yeah you can't take them all what are you doing so i started doing it i used to run my mom's plants over all the time and she'd give them funerals she'd literally go outside with a flower and some water and cry.

1:42:40And I'd be like, God, my mom's weird. But then I got older and I understood. And then, of course, I felt bad for everything I did. But, you know, yeah, Rick, all I do is, all I want to do is create. That's all I'm good at. I'm not good at anything else.

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1:45:03Learn more at lectio365.com

1:45:16Tell me about the album package where you pull open the package and there's a mirror. Yeah, so Iowa, sophomore albums end up being highly anticipated for lots of reasons. A lot of people think you're going to sell out. That's just talk and chirping around you. Jealousy and people. Well, we'll see if you're still as extreme the next album, when you get a little money if you do and all this. So I put a goat on the cover, and there's a lot of reasons for that. One, you know, I love what goats represent, true Billy Goats. You know, they piss on themselves. They stink so bad because they're the ones.

1:46:00And they protect everyone, and they got an attitude. They get on your car. They will go through your door. They'll eat your tree. They'll eat a pop can. They'll eat a rock. Anything. They are, I mean, they're my favorite, okay? And they're pretty rare in Iowa. They're not everywhere. But what it is, is it's the goat's on there and everyone's obviously like, look, see, devil music. And then the bottom line is you open it up and if you're a good mom or dad and you got to check it out, make sure there's no blasphemy, blasphemy on the inside, and you open it up, boom, there's a mirror. And you're part of it.

1:46:38And I got you. You know why you're there? Because you're a good parent and you're checking it out for your kid. But look, you're a part of it. And sometimes it's a little weird. So it's not a perfect mirror. You know, it's more of like a carnival mirror where you're a little twisted like us. That's because we ask why. And that's what we do here. Why is a hard question for a lot of people if they're safe in the because. I'm not into because. I'm into learning, you know, I want to know why on everything. So I put a mirror, a portal, and you open it up. And then the way I designed the paper layout, you got to take it and you can flick it.

1:47:18And it'll go. And then everyone's got a picture to sign. Because when we were signing our first one, you had to turn pages. I was like, screw that. In stores are like four hours. We got to move this stuff. So lay it down. Everybody's picture. Next. You know, sign. Next. How would you say the band is the same as when you started? And how has it changed? We are all wiser. We have all set our ways. There might be a few still looking. There's five OGs. You got the original singer. You got the original two guitar players. You got the original DJ and you got the clown. of course we're friends, but we don't hang.

1:48:04And if others do, I don't know about it. And it's not that I don't care, but we're best up there. And that's when I can love you the most because I got an awful, hectic life that I don't think you want to be a part of anyway. You know, there's a lot of pain. Lately, it's been really nice for everyone to be in their 50s. with age comes wisdom and we're all growing wiser and it's in our benefit we're able to look at what's happened the negative the positive and the embarrassments the accomplishments you know the the real love of what we're doing and we're still doing it and and and we need to and we won't do anything else you know i don't know how much longer i can do it i gotta i'm in a lot of extreme pain that I can't get in control of because I've given 190 % of myself.

1:49:00I miss my dudes. Joey used to get on me, man. He was the one. He made me the best I could ever be. You know, I like to think I did that to him. I used to say we were nemesis because we always just argued, but, you know, it's not until someone's gone that you realize they bring the best out of you again. I mean, there's no one in the world that played more drums with Joey than me and Chris Fain. I got to do that. I got to learn from him every night. I got to follow that human being. I can't get over the number one and number two. It's a wild story. And if you knew, you know, knowing Paul, you know, he would never want to be number one.

1:49:44But he would want number one to recognize that, hey, I'm with you, so I'll be number two. So it was straight, sort of straight fire on ego on the one part. Yeah. And it was just straight love and something else. But they were a team. And, you know, I hate to say, but, you know, Joey really had a hard time with Paul, you know, going. And I don't think he ever wanted to write with anyone else. I don't think he ever wanted to jam with anyone else. And his dude was gone, you know. and that that's just how it's felt you know and then both of them one and two you know you're just can't write that you can't understand that you can't take it away it was only going to happen this way you know it's it's so bizarre I'm still trying to figure it out you know we're not gonna I mean I imagine I was thinking about all the records that you've done when I was told and I I was thinking about the cult and stuff that I love when I was so young and you were doing it already.

1:50:53And I'm just sitting there listening to Electric and God, I can't imagine where you've been and all the souls from Adele to obviously Johnny Cash, but even Slayer, whatever. Like just heavy stuff, man. It takes, I do believe in that. I believe there's humans that have an ownership on something and some don't. I don't know if that makes you special. It doesn't. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm not looking to be special, but man, it'd be nice to like just once, like, God damn it, just someone talk to me. Just for real. Like, I need an alien. Someone just, why do I have to have all the answers already? Why? Why haven't I quit?

1:51:47You know. Does the feeling go away when you're on stage? Oh man, I turn into a, I guess the result of the human condition. I talk to myself. I got a problem with my jaw being open because I got the mask and I'm just talking to myself. No one can see me. So it's like, I just am talking. I'm like, this and you and, you know, this, back flip, front flip, drums, baseball bats, you know, over here, just wet, gross, hot, dudes up on you slamming so hard, your neck feels like it's going to roll off. It is God, you know, it's all I have. It's the only thing that's never turned its back on me. My wife has never turned her back on me.

1:52:39She will never turn her back on me. But if she's ill, if she's ill, music is the only thing that's always been there for me. And I don't even need to hear it for it to be there for me. It's in here. So we get it. I got to have it. I got to have it. I got to be so out of it that at 2 in the morning when the bus starts, all of a sudden you'll see me go, I'll take a deep breath and I'll be like, peace. I'm out. start at 9 30 and at 11 takes till two in the morning for that this monster to just get back to reality and then when i do oh i actually sleep yeah you know subnaut is good for me always has been and that's yeah i hate that i hate that it keeps me alive you know what i mean rick like it it keeps me alive it makes me drink water it makes me it gets the bad smoke that i had once out of me.

1:53:41It gets the talk, you know, it keeps me alive. It gives me desire. It gives me will. It gives me purpose. And I can't stand it. It's such a priority of existence. And I have to do it. I have a skipping heart and I got to get a surgery. And I found this out after my last tour. I went in, I wasn't feeling good. And I went in and the nurse was trying to get an an AKG thing going on me or whatever. And it just wasn't happening. I kind of fell asleep and I woke up. I'm like, are you going to get this thing? And she's like, oh, it's not working. They thought I was having a heart attack right there. Anyway, my heart skips.

1:54:22And apparently I've taught myself to be like a cross-country runner. So I'm overweight and my brain is so strong that it tells this stuff what to do. So my standing heart rate at night is 43. And during the day, I get down to 33. Hasn't happened since I've been here with you, which is good. Because I'll go from on to just straight up, I feel like I'm dying. So I got to get a surgery. It's a very easy surgery. You're usually out on the same day. It's not like they rip you open. This is something about the electricity. But at first, they thought maybe I needed a pacemaker. And I was like, Doc, listen, get a pacemaker.

1:55:09I'm done, right? Touring, Slipknot goes, oh no, you're going to feel better. And I just, I lost it. I was like, I can't get out of this to save my life. I'm like, there is nothing, not even my heart. It's going to be better because of Slipknot. I got a concierge doctor because I'm in Slipknot and I'm able to go to levels. And they're like, no, you're going to feel better. You better get in shape because you got to do more now at 56. And it's just like, I just can't believe it, man, that this was me. Yeah, it's wonderful. I'm lucky.

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