Dan Reynolds

25:11So everybody's like, you don't mess with the Jesus people. Yeah, you could fuck with anybody, but you don't mess with Jesus people. Yeah, except rich kids. And like, that was scary. You would group of them, throw things, throw rocks at you, punch you, like just no regard for, you were just a target. You were a target. Yeah. That's crazy. What a life. That's amazing. But that's going back to, I guess, your original question was that if I didn't have all of that, it has to form what you are. Yeah, it has to. Yeah, it did. And it drove me to music. Yeah. And then you know, I will tell you something, when I was still praying, I pray, but I pray a lot different now.

25:51And I'm not praying to somebody. I'm praying to like everything or something. But at the time when I was on my mission, I would pray every night in my prayer. You know, it's always different. You don't do repetitive praying as Mormons, but I would say, you know, please help me to find truth in this. First of all, please, I know you're not supposed to ask for a sign. I'm not going to ask for a sign, but please just help me to find this to be true because my life would be so much better if I believed in all my family, but also please let me do music as a career. I prayed for it every night on my mission.

26:24Wow. Every night, every time. I know I'll be able to handle it. You thought you were going to have a straight job. You were preparing to have a straight job. I was preparing to have a straight job and it was a pipe dream. But your dream was to have a musical life. It was my dream. And my brother had told me before my mission, he said, Dan, your mission is going to be the hardest thing you ever do. But because I did my mission, I got such a hot wife. He said that. Yeah, the and I always remember it. On the hardest days, I was like, you know, I'm going to have some blessings, something, something good is going to come from this.

27:01Yeah. And so my hot life was, please, please let me have a career in music. That's all I want. Yeah. And the worst mistake I made was telling that to my mom because she holds that over my head all the time. Well, God gave you what you want. And then you turn your back on and my mom, I didn't turn my back on. God, it just looks a little different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Would you say you still have a connection to something higher power, let's say? Before every show, I always connect to something. I don't know what I'd call it, but I feel like it's something, something grand. I feel like God for me is happiness.

27:39It's it feels like something. I wouldn't say it's someone, but it feels like something. Maybe it's everything, you know, all of it. It's, I can't personify it, but I feel like I'm connecting with something that is yet to be known. Yeah. Would you say it's energetic? Yeah. And maybe it's in my head, but I feel when I connect to it, then my show is great. And that's why I do it, especially before shows, because I feel that if like it centers me and I acknowledge my intention to the universe, my intention is to make these people happy. My intention is to make myself happy, to feel love, to facilitate love, and to just have fun and sing.

28:22And then I'm trying to just rid myself of any energy on me that just feels that it doesn't match that. Yeah. Anything of my ego, any hard conversation that I've had with someone, I'm trying to just shut it off of me, and I almost feel like I see it go. And I just feel connected in a magical way. And then when I really am able to do that, then it's a great show. So then I believe in it. I believe in whatever that is. I don't know where that's yeah. But that's different than, you know, when I was Mormon, it's, you know, dear Heavenly Father. It's your Father. I picture the man in a white robe with a beard like the thing that you're taught as a Christian.

28:59It looks like this. And then Mormons believe there's the Father and Jesus Christ. And they're two separate beings in Jesus the Son of God. And then there's the Holy Spirit, which is kind of this like, Spirity Ghost guy that's kind of, and that's, that's what Mormons believe. It's, whereas in other faiths, they believed that the three old one, it's not that way. Mormons believe it is actually a person that's up there pulling the strings. And, uh, and that's a cool story. I liked it. And it was fun. And maybe it's true. I don't know. I don't, the last thing I claim to know is what's right and wrong or true.

29:32The fact that you can connect to something, and it works for you is a great blessing. Whatever it is. Yes. Yes. And my greatest thing that I've been working on is trying to just listen to my gut. And I've had to relearn that because of how I formulated my sense, but now what feels good?

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31:32You wrote your first song when you were 13. Did that start a cascade of songs right away? When did that start? Once I wrote the first song, it was like an addiction. I wrote the next day, and the next day, and the next day. And I have all these songs, it's thousands and thousands of songs. I'm sure that a clinician of some sort would say, this is this thing. Obsessive, compulsive, yeah. And I've met with therapists throughout the years, and I've been told I have severe ADHD, and I have severe depressive disorder. But I've never done medication, not that I'm against it. I'm too fearful of it. I'm too fearful of change.

32:10I can operate here, and it's got me here. Yeah, and it's working. And it's working. And I find things that help me to manage, like I said, like sobriety and things that really help me. I remember when you guys reached out about us working together, and I said, send me some songs, you know, you wrote, and you sent me, I think, 93 songs, which is very unusual. Like typically, five or six songs is what someone has when they're preparing to make their next album, not in the 90s. And then when I didn't question it, I think I got another 20 after that. I was like, oh, he's like, I'd narrowed down to that.

32:54He's like, I don't want to think I'm weird. We listened to 93. So, listen to more, maybe even 25 or 30. A lot. The fact that you have this practice of writing, and you say typically a song a day, is that average? If I'm going to help these spot, I'm writing every day. Yeah. Sometimes I'll go through a full month, and I won't write a single song. Yeah. But if I were to average my life, since 13, I'd probably say I write a song once every three days, or something like that. It's probably something like that. It's a lot. Yeah, it's a lot. Would you say your connection to music has changed since you were 13 to now?

33:28Is it any different? Or is it same? It's pretty similar. Yeah. I get, it's a certain feeling that I love, which is there's nothing and let me create something. And it's, let me listen to it and see how that feels. How that feels good. Let me share that with someone. Did it make them feel something? Wow. What a magical thing. And that interaction of nothing, to something, to sharing, I love. And it's just the majority of these songs were never heard by anybody except at least one person. I always share it with my dad or my brother. And they might just go, cool. Or I didn't like that one that much.

34:13My dad sometimes will say, you sound angry and I don't really like angry music. It doesn't matter what the response is. Yeah. It's about sharing it. Yeah. It doesn't matter what the response is. You're doing self -expression. You're finding these things and through sharing them, you're saying this is who I am. Yeah. That's what it is. Yeah. And it feels great when it does give someone a good feeling. Absolutely. Or connected feeling. You never know. You never know. Yeah. And you do it often enough where if someone doesn't like a song, it's no big deal because tomorrow there's going to be another one.

34:51Exactly. That's a great point. I've never really thought about that. I think that has given me a lot of armor. Yeah. It's doing so much. Yeah, you're free. It's not nothing is precious to me. Yeah. Nothing is precious. It's the experience of it is precious. But whether it's received or not, I think especially as I've gotten older has become non -precious to me. That's great. Of course, I always hope. Yeah. But that's not the reasoning. No, it's secondary. Yes. Yes. Yeah. The primary thing is to make it and to feel it and for you to feel it and then share it. Yes. And whatever happens after that.

35:27So out of all of our control. Yes. Yes. You said there was a battle of the bands. Did the band already exist? No. There was a battle of the bands I saw poster for it. That day went to lunch and I was in the cafeteria at BYU. I was sitting next to a couple, a guy and a girl who looked different than everyone else in the cafeteria. They were like very non -moment looking and I was at BYU, which is all -moment. And again, I'm always gravitating towards whatever looks the most different than me. It's interesting to me. He just had an energy. His name was Andrew. And I sat at the table next to Andrew and I said, hey, I don't know what my first sentence is, but something like, do you play music or something?

36:10Are you an artist? Yeah. You read about this battle of the bands. Yeah. Should we like, Jay and I have some time or something? He said, well, yeah, this is my cousin Aurora. And the three of us went back to their house that day, sat down and started writing. At the time, it was very folk -y and kind of theatrical. I think is the way I'd explain it. And that's - She was - It would be the reference. Like if you say what, name some artists that work in that vein so I could picture - Like Queen, maybe. Queeness. Kind of like, operatic? Yeah. She was a theater major and she sang with me. And the three of us wrote together and there wasn't a primary songwriter at this point.

36:46It was just kind of like the three of us in a room writing. We were already used to seeing harmony from church. Exactly. It was very just theatrical and then maybe the next day when I was sitting in biology, that was like writing down band names and then I had this phrase that was meaningful to me. And I brought to them and I said, well, you guys think about this? Yeah, but I don't know if that's a good band name. We're like, all right, well, what if we made an anagram and keep it a secret on that one time, buddy? Because I love secrets. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And through them, we met the guitarist and through the guitarist with the drummer.

37:22Anyway, we did the battle of the bands and we won it. But we were really bad. I think we want to, because our heart was so, it was so jovial and it was so fun and we all had sharpies and drew like moustaches on our face and it was very theatrical and it was so different than everything else. Yeah. Everything else was like square. Yeah, it was just like bands and we were like, it was like a theater event. Yeah. And we were immediately best friends. I loved them. There was so much chemistry between us that I think people just voted for us because they were like, they're having fun. Yeah. We never hang out with musicians before.

37:55That was the first time. Yeah. I really grew up around pretty much with all Mormons except for my best friend since middle school was very not Mormon. He was the scariest kid at school and I made friends with him because I was so scared of him. And then he became kind of my protector. I was a really nerdy small kid with bad acne and braces and an expander and I played this saxophone. I played no sports. I played the tenor saxophone and it was bigger than me. That was your first instrument saxophone? Yes. Well, no, I took piano lessons from six to sixteen just at home. My mom read something that was like kids play piano.

38:31They do better in that. Did you love it? It was it more. This is what you've been doing. I didn't love it. I didn't love it but I credit it for a lot of my melodic sense because it was all Mozart and Beethoven. It was all just the classics. So that was good. But saxophone and middle school was my first like I chose this instrument. And yeah, that was kind of my upbringing. So my best friend was very not Mormon and he was into drugs and he was it was that first sense of me getting to choose something outside of Mormonism and being thrilled by it. This is thrilling. This is exciting. He's getting in fights every day.

39:06I'm not getting in the fights. I'm not even helping him. I'm just sitting there like scared and hoping he wins. Yeah, but you got to experience life outside of your bubble. Yes, and I lived absolutely in a bubble. No cable television. So I'd go to school and I'd be like, boy, me, it's world. I don't even know what that is. And I'm glad for that because we didn't ever have TV on and out. So music was my TV. Did your dad play music a lot in the house? Every once in a while quietly, my dad would play his guitar and sing in his room. And it was always kind of just really peaceful music. I don't know if he ever wrote any songs but that was my only person I saw doing that.

39:45But he was always playing records constantly. Yeah, constantly records in the house. And then my older brothers, when they got into high school, they had bands. And it was primarily scab bands. They were really into like at the time there was a Mormon band that was taking off called the aquabats. Oh, yeah. I didn't know. I didn't know. I don't know. I don't care if we live in the garbage can. Mormons. Cool. Actually, super cool guys too. And I've gotten to meet them over the years. And they ended up doing yoga, baggatta. So my brothers were in the scone. I didn't really like scone music, but it was just before my time.

40:18But then I played that's why I played this saxophone. So I could play for them in their scab bands because it was all hard. Yeah, I just wanted to be cool with my brothers. And then I started to play drums. I took drum lessons for a couple of years. I'm the seventh son. So six older brothers, two younger. Have a younger sister and a younger brother. No. What was the name of the band that you joined the battle of the bands with? Imagine dragons. Yeah, we came up with the name for the battle of the bands. And we won the battle of the bands. And then there was a Utah's Got Talent thing that was right around the corner.

40:52And we were like, well, let's do this too. Yeah. And then we entered that. And we won the Utah's Got Talent. Really? First two things you did. Yeah. Was the first gig, the battle of the bands the first time you ever played in front of an audience? First gig ever. Yeah. And then was the other one the second or no? You started the second gig in that. Maybe one gig locally, but in between. But it was within a month or so. Yeah. Yeah. And we started to play at this local place in Utah called the Valour, which was like 200 people. And we started to just sell it out all the time. And we made an EP and soul.

41:22How often did you play there? Once a month. And once we started sell that out, then I begged my mom and I, and we won the Utah's Got Talent. I said, mom, can I defer a semester and come home and live at the house and try to play in LA and see if we can get signed for once semester. Yeah. Just give me a chance. Yeah. She really, really did not want me to do it. And I just was like, beg to and she's finally said, yes, we went home, the band all moved in. And we started to play our first gig in LA. We booked the Hollywood Cabana Club. I think it was called Nobody Came. Zero people. And then we played the Cat Club and had a handout flyers.

42:03And I think we got like 50 people from handing out flyers. Then just moved up and moved up and started made another EP. We put out like four EPs before we got to LA. Are you commuted to LA? Commuted to LA? Commuted to LA? Yes. And then we started playing Vegas, LA, Arizona, Utah. And we would just rinse and repeat. And then every day we would practice for eight hours. We were like, if we're all doing this and we're taking out, and they were all from Berkeley at that point. And the first month, we have like five people come in and five people come out because it was like, okay, now we're getting serious.

42:37Who can move to Vegas? Well, I can't move to Vegas. Okay, you stay here. It's fun. So if you actually look at the band's origins, it's like there were probably 10 members in the first month. But then the final four was like right in the beginning. It has been the same always since. Then we moved to Vegas and then just started to practice every day. And we were totally broke. And so then we went to the hotels and asked if we could play cover gigs to make money. And they agreed. They said, if you do six, there was a six hour a day. We chose hotels. Oh, shades. We couldn't even get to the hotels first.

43:11We got Oshays, which was the cheapest beer on the strip. And so you can imagine what that's like. It's all slot machines. And there was a stage. It was so tiny, barely off the ground. And we played from 10 p .m. to 4 a .m. And we were allowed to do 80 % covers, 20 % originals. And what would be some of the covers? Anything we wanted. So we did everything from the cars to Britney Spears, to Michael Jackson, the top climbers. Top and rock music. Yeah, pop rock. A lot of 90s, just because I loved the 90s. It was basically whatever we thought was interesting. And what could capture a bunch of drunk people playing on the slots?

43:53Yeah, attention. And then we would just try to sell our EPs. By doing those shows, do you feel like it made you better? 100%. Because you're playing in front of an audience. And you're picking your songs and you're studying them and learning them for eight hours a day. Six hour gigs. 10 p .m. to 4 a .m. And then we would band practice every day. And I swear I'm not exaggerating. Eight hours we would practice. We go to the guy we had a basement of my mom's house. Then we ended up being able to rent a house block down from my mom where all the band lived. And we would just practice all day every day.

44:22Rote, rote, rote, rote, rote. Tell me about first EP. Our first EP was self titled. And that was the theatrical one. Because that was recorded when we first did the battle of the bands. Because we wanted to have something to get out of the battle of the bands. So I don't really, I mean, you can count it, but it's like it was a very, very different, very different. And then our EP after that was, I believe it was just self titled Imagine Dragons. And that's when we had gone to Vegas and it was the lineup that now we have. It was really just me trying to be the killers, I'd say. I loved the killers.

44:56And my older brother at that time had just found the killers and was managing them. Cool. And they blew up. And I loved Brandon Flowers and I loved the killers. And I thought they were the best band ever. And so I was like, and they were local bands. So that also was like, Yes, it can be done. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. I wrote that EP with the guys and we recorded it in Vegas. And the reason we got signed actually is because we ended up playing in the Viperoom and we're like an LA buzz band. And one night a guy came out who was the assistant to Alex DeKid, who's a hip -hop producer. And he had heard about our show came got the EP gave it to Alex DeKid.

45:36He played the CD. And it had its time on it and I hear me in a couple of the songs that ended up making our full one record and said, Hey, this kid's a good writer. Half him come in and write on my hooks. And so then we got an email that was just from Alex DeKid to my manager that was like, Yo, I like your writing come in. It was like that. It was just that. I mean, if you can say Alex DeKid in the fit. It was just and then we googled and oh, it's Alex DeKid. He just did love the way you lie with your honor. This is a big deal. So then I drove out to LA just to write with him. And then I ended up staying in a hotel for a month and writing every night hooks for him that we're supposed to be for your honor.

46:16Yeah, whoever, whoever. And then he just after a month of writing, he was like, You're a great writer. I want to sign you and how do you just be a solo artist? And I was like, I have a band that I've been with for years, but you can sign us. And he was like, I don't need to guys. He met the guys and he was like, Okay, I'll sign you guys. Great. And then we proceeded to make our first record in night visions. And it was half of the songs were from the EP we had already put out and the other half were songs that we put out with Alex. So it was very disjointed. Also, I think sonically it was like hip hop with Imagine Dragons and pre hip hop with Imagine Dragons.

46:53So it was very sonically different, but it's kind of what made the record cool and interesting. It was just genre hopping because of that.

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48:31Let's go through each release and just pick a song and we'll listen. Go. So the first one 2009 Imagine Dragons. Okay. Pick a song. I need a minute. A tight cover up curse drive. Why don't you do a drive? I've always liked drive. That one is now with me still well.

49:13I'm Give me right. All it takes is silent night. Oh, my eyes see these lights. Old hold. Old hold on. Old hold on. But when it comes it goes I am on my knees. Oh, forgive me. Can you write? Look at these people flying in kind. They seem to live for God tonight. Hold the hold. Hold on. Hold the hold on. But when it comes it goes I am on my knees. Oh, forgive me. Drive. I got my head on the right. I got my people's drive time. I got my head on the right. Oh, I got my head on the right.

50:41Oh, I got my head on the right. Oh, I only take a story. What do you remember about recording it? I remember being really nervous because it was our first time in the studio. And it was in Vegas and I really hated being in a booth because all my recording since my youth had been by myself. I didn't like standing up, having a mic, having an engineer, having a band sit in a room, delivering a vocal was really nerve -wracking from like that. I didn't enjoy it and I could hear it on myself when I listened to that. So I'm mainly nervous but excited at the same time because it was actually happening I felt.

51:28I was recording something in a real studio. How soon was this after the Battle of the Bens? Within a year, so really early. But within six months. And then this one, how did you get this around to people? We just made copies of it, put it in a sleeve. And I remember this, we were thought it was so cool that we made a magic eye out of the front where you can see a dragon. That's cool. You can remember what you put your nose to it. And then when we played our cover gigs, we just had a big stack of them. That we had just printed on the run and we would just give them to people. And people, the thing about Vegas people coming from all over the world and taking their CD and go home and spread it.

52:07And I ended up booking us our first gig that we got in Norway, which was international, was because of that. It was like people coming in and then bringing the CD home and falls into someone's hand who's a booker for some Norwegian festival and then brings imagine dragons in based off our EP. Yeah. What's inside? How do you think growing up in Vegas affected you? Vegas is such a juxtaposition. It's the city of Sen and Mormons. Vegas was established by the mob and the Mormons. Really? If you look into the history of it, it was the Mormons move from Utah into Vegas. The same time that the mob came in from the East Coast and started the gambling.

52:47And so you have this interesting intersection of faith and sin. And it was fun to grow up like that because I got to see both sides of it. Yeah. You know, we would like drive on the freeway and be like, naked ladies on the billboards and my mom would be like, shield your eyes, children. You know, I'm like, this is great. So it was cool because I was able to meet a lot of interesting people and then also be surrounded by Mormons too. So I just, I got to see very, very different lifestyles, which was good. Yeah. What's the next EP? Maybe it was, hear me was next. Helen Silence? Helen Silence. Is Emma on that?

53:30Yes. Yeah, I think Emma. Let's hear Emma. So this is 2010.

53:46Production getting a little better, cleaner. And I'm not. Emma's the root of front of me, telling me what I'm supposed to be. Jackie loves to run and hide, give her love as she will die.

54:20I'm going to be a little better. I'm going to be a little better.

54:36I'm going to be a little better. Emma on the earth. Emma on the earth.

55:13Emma on the earth.

55:20Beautiful. Yeah, kind of a little like sleazy Vegas. Feels like Vegas to me in a way that I really love. It's like nostalgic, free Mont Street. I'd still enjoy that. Or anything different about that experience of recording in the first one. First time working with a producer. Yeah. This was another thing that you made independently. You guys made this yourself. Independent, unsigned. And how did you get this one out? Also still at live shows. Still at live shows. Just printed on our own. Made the cover in Photoshop. You know, that's even we just were still playing cover gigs and passing them out at cover gigs.

55:57And if you like the band was getting better just from the more of those shows you did. 100%. Yeah, my voice was I was starting to find I still hadn't found my voice. I did not know who I was on a microphone. I was pretending. I was playing pretend. I think. And now doing covers. But that's how everybody starts. Right. That's the beginning. Right. We would have never made it anywhere if we hadn't had those cover gigs. We could have practiced eight hours a day and I think it would have never happened. It's a different thing. You're in front of people. Yeah. Something that sounds great in a room when it's you're playing it in a room as a band.

56:31But when you play it in front of people suddenly you're like, oh, this is bad. Yeah. This is not well received. Or this this song works in it. I thought it didn't work at all. Yeah. Something about introducing the unknown factor. Yeah. And when you put your own songs in the context of essentially hits by other people. Right. You really judged hard. Absolutely. Like it has to really stand up. What are you putting it next to a unknown loved song? 100%. Yeah. So it forces you to up the game. I have to. I think it's also why we write so to our strength and to our detriment. Everything I write is very bombastic.

57:14I think it's a word that I've seen associated with band that I always hated. But it's big. Yeah. And that's because those were our roots and you're competing with noise, you're competing with beer, you're competing with slot machines and all the greatest hits. So you want to get the attention of the way? Yeah. If we would have played something smaller just nobody would have heard. Even if it was great. Yeah. It didn't matter. You're in Vegas. Yeah. People are wanting to be entertained. Yeah. And so I wanted to entertain them. If I'm ever stopping the songs too short, feel free to say. I love that you do that.

57:52No. I would have you do this thing. But if there's any time where you feel like. Well, the good parts coming up. Yeah. Yeah. I just like just telling me. No, these early songs too are. It's, I mean, it's not painful to listen to them, but I'm like, you know, it's like listening to your. Yeah. Early. It's interesting. I would say they're pretty great. Thank you. Thank you. It's very different because so much changed when Alex came in and it's like, it changed our trajectory. In a lot of ways. Yeah. For better and worse. And I think. For better because we're here and we get to make a living doing.

58:25Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay. Next is. It's time. Okay. What are the songs on that one? It's time Amsterdam, Tokyo. The river. Leave me pantomime. The river is my favorite on that one. The river. Yeah.

58:48Yeah.

59:19Yeah. Yeah.

59:26Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

59:43Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1:00:10Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1:00:21Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1:00:39Yeah.

1:00:44Yeah.

1:00:51Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hi, I'm Dirk. All right. Everyone in the audience, in a faith crisis. I was still wearing Mormon garments underneath everything. I remember my mom. I remember we started to play a couple festivals and it was really hot and I didn't wear the garments underneath it. It's like you wear this special underwear. It's like a t -shirt and long kind of underwear that are like sacred to Mormons underneath everything at all times. Yeah. And I remember my first show that I played without them, my mom noticed and was really upset with me. I was like, I noticed you didn't wear your garment.

1:01:26I was like, Mom, it was like a hundred degrees on this stage. I couldn't do that. Like because it keeps you modest, right? It's all built in a way it's not supposed to show so that you stay modest. So in listening to that song for instance, I hear so many references to me struggling with faith and I hear it a lot in the lyrics in a way that I wouldn't say it makes me sad but it more just makes me remember when it was, I was so conflicted. Yeah. And the recording process, anything different. That we self -produced at the palms in Las Vegas. It was our biggest studio we'd been in. I remember it being such a big deal that we got in there.

1:02:12And it was a really fun experience and we also worked with Brandon Darner who was in one of my favorite bands called the NV Corps and he helped produce that record. I feel like that record is maybe the closest to like we understood what Imagine Dragons was at that iteration. Yeah. It was our best body of work and we recorded its time there which ended up being our first single that blew the band up. So it's good memories. At this time were you playing your own shows, were you doing your own material or still doing covers? We're still doing both. We were doing our own shows and covers still at this point because that's how we paid for rent at the house.

1:02:57So we, until we got signed, we were playing covers. Until we signed, got an advantage. Three or four years, what do you say? Yeah, three or four years. And were your own shows growing at this time? Yeah. Every show that we played, every time we go back, we go to St. George and we go to Provo, Utah Salt Lake City, Phoenix, Arizona, LA and every time we go we get bigger. And we played like the Roxy and LA which was a step up from the Vyper Room as far as Capacity and more buzz. So we were seeing progress but it also was really hard progress so much so that the drummer at the time and his wife who you hear singing on everything, she played the synth, they finally were like, guys, we gave it one more year.

1:03:41There's too much work. It's too much work. We're going to go have a baby and we're like no fault. We understand it and we almost broke up. Yeah. And I had a call with Wayne or guitarist and was like, do we give this another six months together? Because it was just such a grind and we were like, well, every show has more people. Yeah. It's building. It's building but it's not really sustainable. It's not sexy. It's not fun. It's hard. You're loading all your own gear and you're also doing it for four years or three years or whatever it was. And it's scary. You're playing shows all the time. You're like, are people even going to come tonight?

1:04:15Yeah. And sometimes not. Even though we were growing, you go play in some, no name plays, nobody knows you. And you're playing at a bar to five people and you're like, and you drove three hundred miles to get there. Yeah. And it's not sexy. It's not fun. And he was like, yeah, I think we should. If you're down, I'm down, I was like, I'm down. So they had dropped out of the band and then I think two months later we got signed. They dropped out of the band and then Daniel Plotsman who came in, the guys knew him from Berkeley. They had all gone to Berkeley School Music for jazz. Wayne and Ben. It was me, Wayne, Ben, and your Brittany.

1:04:47And your Brittany said, hey, we're going to go have a kid. Plotsman moved to Las Vegas. Alex DeKid came to like the next, his, you know, member, his guy came to the show. Then I went and wrote with him for a month and we got signed with the next two months. Did you listen to the radio growing up? Really how I consumed almost everything was radio. I'd sit by the radio and I had a tape cassette and I would make mixed tapes I'd record whenever a song came on and I would listen to mixed 94 .1 in Las Vegas which was alternative music and then 98, 5, 97, 5 which was hip hop. And I would just go back and forth and I would wait for a song to come on.

1:05:24I hit record. I just made tons of mixed tapes that were all just radio songs. So I grew up really on singles. So when people were like, what's your favorite album? I'm like, I don't know. I didn't have a lot of favorite albums. Favorite songs. I love this song by the Fuji's. It's going to be the most popular song. I love this song by Irana Shtemmose Poppular's song. Like it's just, that's what I grew up on and I think again, that's probably why I love big melodies. I love big sounding songs are better for words. I just don't, I didn't consume albums because I couldn't buy albums because my mom would never let me buy those albums.

1:05:57It could say anything. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. So next is the fourth EP which is after you've signed. Yes. Yes. And that's continued silence. Continued silence. Yes, because we had a song called Helen Silence off the early EP. It's got radioactive demons on top of the world, round and round. It's time or I fault. Let's do round and round. Okay.

1:06:52Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

1:07:10Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

1:07:50Yes.

1:07:55Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

1:08:08Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

1:08:35Yes.

1:08:41Yes. Yes. Yes.

1:08:54Inaudible. Yes. Yes. And it's interesting because I know a lot of times I wrote these songs in the moment I didn't even know what I was singing about. And I think the reason it was moving to me to listen to that is because I know what I'm singing about now. Tell me what it means now. Listen to it. Well, what I'm talking about, I'm afflicted by fiction, Mormonism became fiction for me. And then the precursor is you don't have to hold your head up anymore. And I just felt like I was so tired of living something that was not true for me in living it because I didn't want to let my mom down and all of my family down.

1:09:29My friends down, all these people, you know, your taught is a religious person that be wary of becoming prideful and learned, be wary of becoming educated, be wary of riches because this worldliness will take you away from God. And I was so imprinted in my brain that when the band started to take off, I almost wanted to just stay in it, just be... Yeah. Just saying you felt scared about it? Oh, yes. I felt very guilty about like leading people astray. And it seems probably silly to other people, but the people I cared about most by far was my family and friends. Of course. And not to think like that everybody's going to follow me away and I hold that much weight, but just the fact of here's my buddies and my best friends and my sister, all these people that I loved, like I was the first one in that group to be like, hey guys, I might not do this anymore.

1:10:31Yeah. And that's a really sad thing when it's your whole culture and it's your people. It's beyond just religion. Mormonism is your everything. You do it every day, not just Sunday, not all of it. It's every day. My sister, like, wet when I left the church and had a call with me, it was like, this has been really hard on my faith that's shook in my faith to watch you leave because so much of my faith was in you doing it. My older brother. Yeah. That was a really hard conversation. I feel like I was letting her down. Yeah. What did you say to her? Do you remember? I tried to explain to her that I'm not leaving anything.

1:11:01Yeah. I still believe in greater things and I'm still going to be looking to be a good person and love and we're going to go to the same place. It's all going to work out. But I think that when you're really in it, I remember how that thought when people told me those kinds of things when I was really in Mormonism and it kind of just feels like words, you know, but we're not, you know, Mormons believe in three heavens. And if you're in the top heaven and you're in the second heaven, you don't see the people in the top heaven. They're hanging out in a different room. There's a celestial kingdom, terrestrial kingdom, T -lastral kingdom.

1:11:40The lowest kingdom is supposed to be so good that if man were able to see it, they would kill himself to be there. That's where your top is. And that's the lowest level. And that's filled with murders, rapists, robbers. That's the lowest level. Hell is reserved in Mormonism's belief only for people who die, see God so they have a perfect knowledge and reject. I don't want to, I reject you. I know how the perfect knowledge I reject you. Those are the people who go to hell. And I was like, cool, this is awesome. So even the murders and stuff, that kind of makes sense because maybe if I was raised that way and I had this happen to you as I'm, who knows, maybe I'd be a murderer.

1:12:17I don't know. And so I was always like, that makes sense to me more than like people being punished for their upbringing. For maybe they'd be a better person than me if they were born in my shoes and have mom and dad. But Mormons really believe that you don't get to travel up, but up can come down. So if my parents, for instance, are in the celestial kingdom, I'm down here with the rapists and murderers, they can come down and be like, hey, what's up? Good to see you down there. I mean, you're not up here with us. Creating new worlds. Yeah. That's a whole nother thing we can get into, which is cool.

1:12:45Mormons believe you get to like make new worlds and like, was envisioning myself like making fishes and stuff. But it's a great religion for somebody who loves fantasy and sci -fi and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

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1:14:37You were signed by that fourth EP. Why do you decide to make another EP instead of an album? To build buzz into the album. I think it was the label's feeling like you have a small following but why don't we make it a bigger following? I think it was also probably for them to save money. Like let's see how this does. And they put it out and it just started to blow up. It's time got put in like the perks of being a wallflower. I remember it was like a big movie that used it for its trailer and then it just started to blow up. And then radioactive on the heels of that just took off and then demons.

1:15:11It just put more momentum and then here's the record now. So it worked. I don't know if that was any more. What was it between the last EP and the first album? Three or four months because we did that EP that we just listened to was when we signed. So probably two months after we signed we put that out. And then we waited like three months and let that build. Had you already recorded the first album or not yet? We were recording it during that process. Yeah. Okay. So the first album, 2012 Night Visions. What should we listen to? What are the tracks on that? Radioactive, tiptoe. It's time demons on top of the world.

1:15:51Amsterdam hear me every night bleeding out underdog. Nothing left to say. I liked tiptoe a lot on that record.

1:16:30Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Can you remember about that recording? Me and Wayne recorded almost all of that just in his room, which was really fun. We didn't often do that. Usually he would write stuff and send it to me and write stuff in my room where I would do stuff and send it to him and he'd add guitars. Or I would go in with a producer and I'd write and then Wayne would come in and add. It was always kind of like that. That was one of the rare times where him and I were in a room together creating from the ground up. Recording majority of the album, the band didn't go into the studio together and play the songs.

1:19:23It depends on the song. Every song they ended up coming in and playing on after the fact if they weren't in it. For radioactive and demons, I think both of those were just me and a room creating with a track and then the guys came in and added after. Tiptoe, Amsterdam, it's time where all of us in a room creating those songs. It's time started with just me on a laptop and then we went into the studio and the guys all, we all recorded it together. But here I was just Wayne sent me a guitar. I just recorded on my own. That one was him and I in a room together and it was fun. It was where I really felt like I started to really connect to Wayne in a deeper way.

1:20:07When I hear that, that's my first memory. Based on that being a good experience, did you start doing more of that? Yeah, Wayne and I have a really interesting relationship. We're best friends. Never have gone in a fight. Never, which is really rare for a band. We just are like fiercely loyal to each other. But Wayne is the opposite of me. He's very organized with his thoughts. He's a very kind of introverted, deep -finker, quiet, introspective, beautiful, amazing person. Such a good dad, such a good friend, so loyal. And so he just, oh yeah, he kind of represents to me like the opposite of what I am in a way that's very calming for me.

1:20:51Yeah. Yeah. And makes for a good partnership. Tell me how the first album was received in the world. The first album came out and it just did gangbusters. It was like just massive. And it felt like this weird moment where Wayne and I, I remember so many times throughout the years when we were not signed, we're like, are we crazy? Maybe we're not. We're not. Give it six more months. Yes. It was a chance you could have broken up. We kept having these conversations where we were like, I think we're like people who have the EPs tell us they listen to it all the time. They really enjoy it. But maybe that's not good enough.

1:21:29And we had a couple labels that passed on us before that label. They would be interested. Atlantic was really interested. Like took us to Disneyland. And like, you know what I mean? They were like corded us and didn't pull the trigger. Interesting. So we had all these kind of like, could almost. Almost. Almost. But just never happening. And so when the record came out and it just went huge, we were both like, we weren't crazy. These songs that we're writing, they're big songs. Well, it's good or bad. They're big and they're connecting with everyone around the world. And we had always stopped that for years.

1:22:01So it was this feeling of like, but also so overwhelming. Totally like throwing a Mormon missionary boy into the just lions then. Yeah. It was really. And then like meeting all my heroes and people that I love and being like, oh, I really don't like a lot of these people in this sucks, man. And this is not. This isn't what I thought it'd be, you know, and I hated the everything else that came with it. Like, it sounds like a cliche to say it, but I really genuinely hated like the fame side of it. I hated the weirdness with your changes in relationships with your family, changed your relationship with your friends.

1:22:39Yeah. People don't know how to act around you or the wheels like it. Yeah, it's weird. I hated all of that. Yeah. And you can't go back. No. It's like you've signed the blood oath and here you are. I was like, damn, and I remembered. I had this thought in my head all the time where I prayed on my mission. I was like, God, if you let me do it, I promise I can handle it. I would say that every time. I promise I can handle it. And I remember just being like, I can't handle this. I can't handle this. It's like ruining my relationship. It's ruining my, like, and now I want to turn to drugs. I was like, I can't actually handle it.

1:23:08And I thought I could. I was like, I bet everybody thinks they can. Yeah. But you can't, man. Really, you got to be like, it's crazy. Yeah. And no one is prepared for it. Right. And you can never explain that in a way that it's ever going to make sense. No. So you can't even start. Because it seems like that's what you want. Yes. But then when it's there, yes, there's definitely great stuff about it. Right. But it's not all great. No. How did shows change when Seattle came out? Until that point, we're still doing the circuit. We're still doing the circuit. We never stopped doing the circuit. Even when we got signed, the label was like, just keep building.

1:23:46Did you spread the circuit? Did it get bigger? Yeah. We didn't have a tour about it first. Even when we got signed, we had a sprinter van. And we started just Midwest, festivals, radio festivals. Anybody who wanted us anywhere we were there. Then it was like, in order to make that one, you got to go on a flight. And we were just ping -ponging everywhere around the globe. How many shows did you do in that first year, you think? I remember the year end came out. And there was like a pole star thing. It was like top touring at most shows this year. And we were number two. Wow. Yeah. I think it was us in Kendrick that year.

1:24:19Wow. That were the plate. It was like we played 300 plus shows or something. Amazing. So we just went everywhere. Was it harder work than the work before? Oh, yes. First of all, you're in the spotlight of everything suddenly. And everything hurt. Everything hurt to me. I was like, suddenly this artist who was like very sensitive. Any review. Any criticism felt just like the end of me. I was like, OK, never mind. I don't want to do this. Actually, I want to go back to just writing for my dad. Yeah. I don't want to. Can I go back? How do I go back? But also, does everything I've always wanted? Yeah.

1:24:56Like the very conflicting thing of like very scared, but also continually trying to remind myself of like, remember who you are. I love yourself. It's OK to end up listening. Like it was just like, I was not bill for it. Yeah. There were a lot of people in bands who were like, fuck it. I don't give a fuck. I was not that. Everything hurt. Everything felt. Yeah. Everything. Would you talk about it with the other band members? Yeah. Me and Wayne would. Yeah. And it was hard for Wayne to. Both of us, the spotlight of it all was like, both of us wanted to just hide. Ben, no. Ben, it was bill for it.

1:25:27No, not for it. Easy. It was like, I don't care. It was funny. Everything was funny to him. It was just like, this is awesome. Who cares? And I love Ben for that. And he's always been that presence, like a very common presence of like a rational presence. And then how many people would be at the shows that he'd be playing? Everything was sold out. Once that EP came out. It was like, let's say. So we started clubs, so 300. And then I remember we played at 600 people sold out and that was a huge deal. It was like a large club. Yeah. And then we did all large clubs and then we did all theaters. And then it was amphitheaters, arenas, and everything sold out always.

1:26:08And arenas even at the end of the first album? Yeah. Wow. And also I remember us having to play festival slots where we didn't even have enough songs to fill up the time. We were like, we were high up on the bill enough that we had like an hour and a half set. And we're like, we only have 45 minutes of material. We have an hour of material. I don't know how we can do this. Do a couple covers too, I guess? The fact that you were selling out big shows is interesting too, because you were having hit songs. But there's a lot of artists who have hit songs and you don't sell any tickets. I think the band has thrived on our live show.

1:26:40We were ready for it. Yeah. And I've seen the opposite now because now I've gotten to sign a couple acts. And I've seen young acts now that have a hit and go on a stage and they just, they don't know what to do. And it doesn't translate. But it's because of all those years of doing all those hours, six hours a night, 100%. Figuring out who you are on stage. And then suddenly when you're put on the big stage at the festival, you're ready for it. We were ready. We were like, let's go. Let's put on the best stamp show and we can do it. Yeah, the 10 ,000 hours. Yeah, the 10 ,000 hours. Yeah. I think that's what changed it for us.

1:27:13People would come to our show and then they go home and say, hey, we gotta go to their next show. Tell their friends, hey, you should go see my drags live. It's a good show. That word is really what took the flame and just stoked it, stoked it up. What's the first time you played outside of the United States? Norway. And when was that? Bergenfest. And they flew us out to play it. And we were the only American act. Yeah. And it was just. How was that experience? Amazing. Still to the stage, maybe my favorite international experience. Because it was my first time out of the States ever. And my eyes were just so open as this Mormon boy of like, wow, look at all these people and they're happy and they're not Mormon.

1:27:55And like, there's not even one Mormon and everybody's living this. And it's okay. And it's okay. Yeah. In fact, it's great. And wow, there's culture and like Vegas is not a cultured place. So it couldn't be further from it. So I was seeing like healthy living farmers markets and people out walking and staying out late at a dinner table and eating food till 5 a .m. And drinking wine and walking home drunk together and singing and all these things that I would and cobblestone roads. And I was just like, this is amazing. Yeah. Amazing. That's great. Yeah. And then the next album. Smoking Meers. Yeah.

1:28:34So this was kind of probably what happens to most artists, which is you kind of have your first album and it does this huge thing and you're like, what do we even do? And then we just decided, okay, we're going to self -produce a whole record. And we just every song on that record probably has 200 tracks. Yeah. It just was so dense. Overdone you, too. So overdone. Yeah. So overdone, but still maybe my favorite of our records. Well, that's interesting. Because it was darkest time period for me. Heavy, heavy depression on a low light. Never experienced really, really bad depression. In success. In success.

1:29:12Yeah. My deepest depression. Yeah. And it's called Smoking Meers because the whole thing was just, now I've left Mormonism. Now what? My whole life was based on Smoking Meers. My whole life was just based on a lie. Wow. And so, kind of, it was just like, fuck everything. I'm just like, no, no guide, no lost. No, we were lost. Lost. It was a very lost record. What's wrong? Maybe it's a title track, Smoking Meers. Okay.

1:29:55This is my word. This is my way. Show me a sign. Sweep me away. This is my word. Hard record. Gay people. I'm feeling by the way. I'm feeling bright. Taking my heart. Taking my mind. Take me away. Take me away. This is my word. Dream maker. Love, take her. I'm feeling bright. I'm feeling in the dream. That's the kind of expression that will never be. All that I want is it just Smoking Meers. I wanna believe.

1:30:56Good old man. Easy to smoke. Get me out of here. All that I've known. Building some stone. All of it brown. If I'd have sound. This is my word. Hard record. Gay people. I'm feeling by the way. I'm feeling bright. I'm starting to cave. I'm losing my flame. I wanted you truth. But I wanted to play. To disappear. Dream maker. Love, take her. I'm feeling bright. I'm feeling in the dream. That's the kind of expression that will never be. All that I want is it just Smoking Meers. I wanna believe. All that I want is it just Smoking Meers.

1:32:22I wanna believe.

1:32:32I wanna believe. I wanna believe. All I believe.

1:32:46That's the kind of expression that will never be. All that I want is it just Smoking Meers. Sounds very vulnerable. Yeah. Yeah. I think it was the first record that I was like no more metaphors. I'm not gonna hide anything from my parents anymore. It is what it is. Yeah. Would you say the songs are typically autobiographical, even when they're metaphorical? Always. I think I don't know any other way to write really. I'm not a great storyteller. I'm just right as a journalist. What's happening in you? What's happening? Yeah. I don't know. I've tried to like one of my favorite songwriters of all time is Paul Simon.

1:33:30Yeah. Because he can do that. So, a man walks down to you. And I love that. Yeah. And I love that. I can't do it. When I try to do it, it just sounds bad. So, for me, it's just what am I feeling? What do you remember about recording the second album? Yeah. Remember feeling like we had so much pressure on us. Yeah. It was like, hey, your record just went seven times platinum or whatever it was. Like, what's the next single? Now what are you gonna do? Yeah. Show us. There was also a sense of maybe everything we do is just huge. Yeah. There was so many things going the way. Yeah. It was like radioactive, did gangbusters, then demons did gangbusters.

1:34:11It was just doing these crazy numbers at the time. It was like breaking all these records. Yeah. And I think I was like, did we just get really lucky? Or do I just know how to write really big songs? I don't know. Or you know, no way to know. Yeah. And so I think I was just confused. I also didn't understand how big it was just everywhere suddenly in the world, everywhere. Were you talking around the world at that time? We went everywhere because my brother was like, if you don't hit these markets now, you won't be able to hit them later. It doesn't matter how big you are. He's like, there's ginormous artists that never went to Asia.

1:34:51And now they go to try and play it. And Asia doesn't care because you didn't grow with them. Yes. So go everywhere. So we went everywhere. And because of that now, the band, America is like our smallest market. Really? We just played in China and did six stadiums and sold it out in under a minute. Under a minute, six stadiums in China. We've only been to China like two times before that. Yeah. But you went at the right time. But we went at the right time. They felt like we've grown with them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're South America everywhere is bigger than the US even for us. And the US is a huge market for us.

1:35:23But that's to show you how international the band is. And it's because we did that. But it almost killed us. Genuinely, the amount of ping ponging. And it was only humanly possible because we were such young kids. We were like 22. Yeah. And anytime there wasn't a show that we couldn't do, just some of them would just pump me with predisone. It was like predisone in the ass. What? Get on the stage. Go do it. And it was just, we just did it. In our first five years, we canceled one show. Rick won in five years because we just, no matter what we just did it, because we knew what it was like to be a growth musician for years.

1:36:02And we were so afraid. Even it was almost like trauma of like, yeah, it could all go away. But it won't, we won't, guys, we're big enough now. It won't go away. You could be okay. But I felt that on the second record. It was like, no, no, you're gonna be a one hit. Yeah. Like, one right there. It could be a lot of bands. They have a great first album. They had their whole life to write it. Yes. And then can't follow it up. It happens. And we put out smoking mirrors. And it did, I don't know, one tenth. Maybe of what the first record did. Yeah. It was not. It would be successful by any normal metric.

1:36:36If the first album wasn't a phenomenon. 100%. And so it was like, okay, this is what happens when we self -produce. Our fans loved it. Our fans, most fans of the band will say smoking ears is their favorite record. Because it's so dense and because it's so, maybe because it's so vulnerable, maybe because it captured a really specific time in our life or something. But it sold so much less. Then we're in a weird spot where it's like, what do we do now? Let's see what's next. Evolve. Yeah. So this record ended up selling more than night. Night visions. So this is like, it's like we weren't gangbusters and then we went to smoking mirrors.

1:37:19And then we did evolve. And this was our biggest record to date. What do you think was different? What allowed that to happen? Changing things up. Like what? Worked with new people, brought in new producers. So I tried writing with different producers. That changed the sound. It brought out like a new variation of the band. Like the first record was very influenced by Alex the kid. So it kind of has these heavy hip hop things going on. Second record was just the band really self -produced. And so it was very like band -y, I would say. Third record was we primarily worked with these Swedish producers, Matt Man and Robin, who we just come off smoking mirrors that was like 200 tracks.

1:37:59They were like, the song should be like six tracks. And every track should matter so much. And it should sound perfect. Wow. They were very meticulous. It was a completely different approach. Yeah. And they really challenged me in ways that were difficult. They're Swedish. And they're just these two really quiet, sweet guys, but very specific. And they don't tell you if they don't like something, but you just know. Yeah. It's just kind of like, okay. But very smart with sounds. Very like every sound, every drum. Yeah. Interesting fun to listen to. Clean, Swedish. Yeah. And so that was an interesting juxtaposition because we're so big.

1:38:47And my voice was so big. And then it's over these very clean things. It was just a new take on Imagine Dragons. Again, for better or for worse, it just was different. Yeah. Did you like the experience other than the fact that it was difficult? I liked it as much as everything. I like most when I'm just writing a song by myself on my computer. That's when I like most. But I liked that equal to liking every other experience in a studio. Because also there was a lot of fun and they would light up when something was great. So it was still like working with someone who's great. Just someone in the room who was like, helpful.

1:39:26And because of the language barrier maybe I felt I could still like write my lyrics and not be judged upon it. And that felt nice. Like I was able to be vulnerable I think still. I don't think I've ever approached a record trying to do something different. Trying to like even smoke a mirrors. We're trying to make a great record. We're trying to make a cool record. Every time it's the same. You're going in, let's do our best. Let's make our biggest best songs. And by the way, let's comb through your 300 songs and find if there's some gems in there. And if not, let's create on top of that. It's always there's so much material.

1:40:01Yeah. And we're just trying to find the best of what is. Yeah. So then evolve came out and then it did night visions again all over again. What's a good song for us to listen to? You know, I really like, I don't know why off that record. Let's hear it.

1:40:27We could be strangers in the night. We could be passing in the shadows. We could have been closer if we tried. When we're caught in the headlights. We could be faces in the crowd. We could be passing in the shadows. Life and the risk of being found. When we're caught in the headlights.

1:41:02Dangerous. Your love is always dangerous. And now I'm lost in us. We're living in a riot drive. I don't know why, but I guess it's got something to do with you. To do with you. I don't know why, but I guess it's got something to do with you. To do with you. I wasn't thinking I'd love by trading the truth in for real life. We were the essence of desire. And we're caught in the hood.

1:41:49Dangerous. Your love is always dangerous. And now I'm lost in us. We're living in a riot drive. I don't know why, but I guess it's got something to do with you. To do with you. I don't know why, but I guess it's got something to do with you. To do it with you. I don't know why, but I guess it's got something to do with you. To do with you. I don't know why, but I guess it's got something to do with you. To do with you. action. do you think that the original relationships worked their way into the songs? Yes, but not often. I think when I write about personal relationships, I often write in fantasy, only in that sense.

1:42:49Yeah. And I think, for a lot of complex issues, it's like, first of all, when you're living with someone and they're listening to everything you do, it's weird if you're like having a fight and then they hear your song and it's like, and maybe that song's heard everywhere now. Yeah, yeah. And you know, but there's a couple songs that I've written throughout the years. One of them, I think my favorite song I've ever written with the band is a song called Next to Me. And it very much about a relationship and it's about my relationship with my ex Asia. And it's a really sad, so I was a really vulnerable song.

1:43:23So I do sometimes, but mostly not. Next is Fourth Origins. Origins was really like a B -sides of the Valk. We had so many songs. It was just like, okay, Valk just went big. I mean, there was so many other songs that didn't make that record. Yeah. And it did so good. Why don't we just continue on that? I think it came out a year later. Most of it recorded during the same period of time. Is some during the same period and some right after, why I was on the road? Because even when I was out recording of all, I was still brought out a laptop with me and I recorded a lot of hotel rooms. Do you do that typically when you're on the road?

1:44:03Yeah, it's because when I'm on the road, I'm actually a real reclusive person. I know for some bands, the road is not. For me, I really love to experience food. So we'll find some really cool place to eat always as a band. And then I like to walk around the streets by myself. I really like to just go wander. But we don't party. None of us party. None of us have been into that ever. So we're never going to after parties. We're never going to clubs. We're nothing like that. The other thing, if I'm in the hotel room, that I want to be doing is writing. So I'm always writing. It's also grueling, flying from show to show, putting on a long show.

1:44:47The workload is such that if you were to try to do something else while you were on the road, the whole thing could cave in. You know what's crazy is I recently got this aura ring that tracks your sleep. And I brought it on tour with me to just see what happens. Yeah. Whenever I have a show, my sleep that night is horrible. Even if I sleep the amount of hours after the show. Even if I sleep the exact same amount of hours, something about the cortisol. Yeah. I really think it's probably one of the main reasons that musicians turn to drugs, sleeping drugs at night, or anything to escape. Because I think a lot of people think, oh, you're on this high and you just want to get more high.

1:45:26For me, at least, it's not that. It's actually you're on this high. And for me, I wouldn't even say it's a high. You have some really intense experience. For me, it's a very emotional, very intense. Now you're going to remember yourself. Yeah. Something about that juxtaposition, it's not healthy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're at a dark hotel room by yourself. Yeah. Here you were. Now you're here in time to go to sleep. It's certainly unnatural. Not natural. Yeah. So my sleep that night, even if I sleep totally. Yeah. Bad. The next night, if we have a day off, sleep is great. My resting heart rate is completely different.

1:45:59I think it's cortisol. I think it's something that I don't know. But I think it's probably taking years off my life to be playing so many shows. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is the tour schedule as intense as it's always been? No, I've really set rules now. Like, I will only play one show and then one day off. If I play two in a row, then two days off. Vocally, I can't sustain otherwise. Our shows now are two hours. Yeah. And the songs are operatic. Imagine drag hoses. No. No. So when I was young trying to do three or four in a row, I could do it barely, but it was miserable and it was always hard. And always, like, I probably had to go on print a zone like four times a year.

1:46:41Would have to have a doctor come to me. That's a real one point too. I'd have a polyp then I surgically remove. Yeah. So yeah, now I do one day on, one day off. Three on, one day off. Two days on, two days off. Yeah. Exactly. Feel more manageable. Totally sustainable. Great. And we could put on two hour shows. I can sing everything feel good and strong. Beautiful. Yeah. How is the response in different parts of the world? Only any interesting niches around the world that are particular experiences? Everywhere is different. You know, we just played in China. So I guess that's the most recent to me.

1:47:13Yeah. There's such a wonderful crowd. They all made pamphlets that they made on their own so they could see all the words and sing every song with. Really? They all bring out these books and these. Like in books. Yes, like in books. All the means. But they're made by themselves. Yes. So respectful. You know, a song ends in its dead silence. Listening, reacting. New song. Let's all have it together and sing. It's similar in Japan in that way. South America, it's like everybody's just there to have the greatest night of their entire life. Nobody cares what anybody thinks. Everybody's sweaty, hot.

1:47:48Just life. A lot of Europe is like that too. Very much like let's live tonight. Like it's our last night. Let's have the best of Italy, France. Those are two of our biggest territories, France and Italy. Cool. Again, just an incredible amount of zest for life. Americans are the most self -conscious for sure. It's just a very much like when the person next to him is warmed up, they'll feel more warm. But once they get going, they can be a fantastic crowd. But like more stress maybe. Yeah. I'm not sure, maybe because Americans work so much. I'm not exactly sure what it is, but definitely different.

1:48:20Is the language that we're a barrier? No. People sing along wherever you are. Anywhere. Even in China, which is the most alien place in the... English is not spoken there at all. I would ask someone where the toilet is and they don't know what I'm saying. But they sing along. But they sing every word. Wow. They have a book and they sing along. They want to. They want to show you that they... Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really a beautiful thing. Do you think that they appreciate that you're there? For sure. Oh, yes. And also the way that we were treated was like... I went and saw these seven temples that were so beautiful.

1:48:53You pray and you light these things and you bow to the north and south and the east and the west. And it was such an incredible experience. But the amount... I could feel everyone looking at me to be like... Do you like this? What do you think this is weird? Do you enjoy this? Like... And when I'm enjoying it, I see so much joy. And I'm like, wow. This is cool. Like, I think that we're so foreign to each other. Yeah. That it's almost like an alien on a different world. And it's like, let me show these things that are really important to me. And do you see why they're important to me? What a beautiful thing to be a part of that interaction.

1:49:29I really enjoyed that. So, yeah, I... Everyone is so different. But also the same, right? It's still people. People wanting to have a communal experience and enjoying seeing something along together that was important to them in their quiet moments. Yeah. Beautiful. Let's see what's next. Origins. I think birds. Okay. That's when we still perform all the time. I'm really, really like that one. It's not here. I'm looking at the regular version. Oh, sorry, I'm on the Deluxe version. Yeah. Okay.

1:50:39I'm going to do it.

1:50:54I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it.

1:51:29I'm going to do it.

1:51:44I'm going to do it.

1:51:53I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. You remember the Brooklyn what that was going on at the Pen? Yeah. Actually that was a relationship song. I had just gone through separation in Asia. It had been together for seven years. and then broke up and we're, we didn't see each other for seven months. I don't know why so many sevens. It's the sevens and I'm seven son. So we didn't see each other for seven months.

1:52:40And I went and I tore it evolve as us broken up. That was a really strange, wonderful, hard, weird time for me. Finding myself, refining myself out of a relationship, just everything about my life at that time was weird. But that song was really just about lamenting about the end of it, but also seeing the beauty and having someone come into your life and still being able to love them from afar. And then after seven months I came home, we did I wask it together and got back together. It doesn't sound like an angry song. It sounds like that beautiful song. We've never had anger. Even after our divorce, there's never been anger with me in Asia.

1:53:30I think that there's such a deep sense of love and respect between the two of us that we never fought, never anger, never. Just two artists trying really hard to make things work and coexisting. A lot of heartbreak, a lot of joy, a lot of everything, but never anger. You said in your mind, this album's really a continuation of the last year. It really was sonically and time period wise. Okay, next is Mercury. Mercury, that's such a long one too, because we did one end too. Yeah. My general feeling of Mercury is just fun, joy. I really was in a very happy, joyful, healthy spot when we wrote that record.

1:54:19Even coming here today, I just only have good feelings associated with this. I think also just the time period it captured. I was entering kind of for the first time in my life like a spiritual, healthy place. I was starting to find footing.

1:54:40And I felt like it was a very effortless experience. We were just kind of having fun. Yeah. What's the only one that you're here? I think because we've listened to so many kind of sad nostalgic ones, I mean, maybe cut the road would be fun to listen to.

1:55:07I've been waiting patiently. I built this tower quietly.

1:55:27I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous.

1:55:59I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous.

1:56:19I'm so nervous.

1:56:34I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous.

1:57:24I'm so nervous. It's pretty aggro. Yeah. I love that song. Yeah. I really love that song. That is aged well with me. Yeah. I just feel like we just had a lot of fun on that record. And it also brought out, it was the first time ever that somebody has sat down with me and gone over all my lyrics with me. That was a hard experience for me even though I tried to act like it was and it was really hard for me. Just because it's something about, it's already so vulnerable and you're seeing something, something about words on a page and your face to look at every word. That was, you know, but it was a real learning experience for me too because I don't pay a lot of attention to what I write.

1:58:16It just comes out. It just is out and it doesn't matter if it's better good, right? Like I'm not a writer for better or for worse who goes, that line could be better. I write it and I go, that line is what it was supposed to be, right? And it says it's what came out. Yeah, but it was good for me to have to be challenged and to approach something with, look at it twice, rewrite, rethink. And I think that that was my big takeaway from that record was feeling like it's okay to do that. In fact, it could be more meaningful. It could actually be more special. It doesn't always have to be captured in that moment in order for it to be relevant for always something.

1:59:12Also, after you do that experiment, if you like the original version, you use the original version. Right. You lose nothing in seeing if it can do even more. Right. You know. Yeah, and also, it's interesting because I think Mercury is also a fan's love. That record. I think it probably smoking years in Mercury are the two like fan favorite records. Yeah. Because it's somehow, also it's just so much material. I think they enjoy that, but it was, there was a lot of storytelling. There was a lot going on where I think sometimes to a fault, I can be very concise in our records. It can be very one because already it's autobiographical, right?

1:59:57So if it's like autobiographical and you wrote it during a time period where you're nostalgic, there you go. It's an nostalgic record. Yeah. So it's a record about losing faith. It's like Mercury covers a lot of ground. And that's why I'm glad we did it in two acts. Yeah. Next is Lume. Lume is our most recent record. Lume is really was an effort to capture just a happy Imagine Dragons record, I think. Maybe we'll play one and we can talk about it. I think my favorite off this record as we've just toured it is probably firing these hills. Okay. I don't think it's wrong enough.

2:00:48I don't think it's enough.

2:00:55And I know you think about everything that I did wrong, but I do too.

2:01:02Staying up these nights, drinking everything I got nothing without you.

2:01:10I fear I might die alone. I fear I might knock in no one's home. Staying up these nights, thinking everything that I did wrong to you. I don't think that I'm strong enough. I'm never enough because there's fire in these hills. And I think I've lost the will. The more we try, the more we fail. But after everything you're here with me still. Because there's fire in these hills. And I think I've lost my will. The more we try, the more we fail. But after everything you're here with me still. And it turned this car around, open up, sit down, tell you what we're true.

2:02:08And if they'd myself, I'll talk to myself, downlighting up this view.

2:02:16I fear I might wreck this home. I fear I might knock in no one's home. And I know you think about everything that I did wrong, but I do too. I don't think that I'm strong enough. Because there's fire in these hills. And I think I've lost my will. The more we try, the more we fail. But after everything you're here with me still. Because there's fire in these hills. And I think I've lost my will. The more we try, the more we fail. But after everything you're here with me still. So that's Happy Imagine Dragons. And the opening line is, I don't think I'm strong enough. And I think I've lost my will.

2:03:12And it's just interesting. Yeah. It's a good point. It's a good point. Yeah. Maybe that's my only song. I don't know. I think maybe just overall the feeling of the record to me when I walked away from it was like, it felt happy. But maybe the one thing that's so interesting to me, because I haven't done something like this where I've sat and listened to each record. I think my big realization right now is that I don't actually know what a record is about until a few years later. I really don't. And I have ultimate clarity on it now. When you're like, you spoke with me, I'm like, oh, yeah. You're playing any of those.

2:03:54Oh, yeah, that's interesting. So this record, maybe maybe in a couple of years, I'll be like, oh, that was like a false happiness. Yeah. I don't really know. It's just interesting. And that's the beauty of the music for me is it's like, you don't think about it. I don't think it just comes out. I don't think about it just comes out. And then it's a lesson to be learned later. Yeah. It's a feeling for me to have now a lesson for me to learn later. Yeah. It's like a dream. Yes. Yeah. It's exactly like that. You're in a dream you're not thinking about what does this mean. No. No. You're having an idea.

2:04:26When you wake up, you usually don't know what it means. Right. But maybe years later it'll make sense. Right. I do think I very much like that. It's a great analogy. Yeah. Cool, man. Well, thanks for doing this. Please, right. Shall we go in there and see what you do? Let's go. Let's do it. We use the restroom first. Take off the little bit's mic. Yes. That was fun, man. Really fun. I didn't know you do it like that. That's fun. Well, there's no right way. I just like I thought it'd be interesting to kind of walk through. What's interesting to me is that as different as all of the changes were, it really sounds like you all the way through.

2:05:04Like it's the thread that runs through it is thicker than the differences along the way. Right from the beginning. Right. Yeah, that is interesting for me to hear too, because I always have been like, Oh, it's a full new thing now. Yeah. It is pretty streamlined. It really is. It's like maybe I'm just sitting inside the same sad song over and over. 18 years. Yeah. You know, just dressing up.

2:05:34Yeah.

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