Daron Malakian

23:55And each one of them, some of them might be more finished than the others. But each one has this part that I'm like, you know, that that can be better. That can be better. But I play with it like you play with a toy. You shape it. You try. Doesn't work. You know, until something comes along and you feel confident. And that's kind of how the long process isn't where you, you know, and you need to pay you. You say you play every day? No. How often do you play? What I want? Do you have what how often do you want to? Sometimes a month will go by that I don't play. And sometimes I play for that whole week.

24:30And sometimes I mean, when I was growing up, I played every day. Yeah. But and how many hours a day would you play? Back in those days. Yeah. The whole day would pass by like six, seven, eight. I don't know. Yeah. Would you consider practicing or something else? I never practice. I just play. Would you play two other things or no? You play along with records? No. Just play by yourself looking for songs. Just enjoying my shit that I've written. And yeah, somewhere down the line, it gets better. The last thing that comes to my mind whenever I write something is, I can't wait for everyone to hear this.

25:13You're doing it for yourself in that moment. I just like my dad, my dad paints paintings. He doesn't do exhibits or anything. He does it because he does it. That's like he doesn't know any other way to live. That's what he does. He doesn't even sign them. And it's kind of for me releasing it is kind of weird. Like because I never really listen to those songs again. Yeah. I rarely put on toxicity. I rarely put on system record scars record anything. I made once I put it out. It's like almost like bye bye. Yeah, but even a song from childhood, if you haven't released it, you might still play it.

25:54Yes. Because it's still yours. Yeah. Once you put it out, it's not. And I enjoy it. It becomes everybody's. Yeah. And I enjoy it. That's I don't know any other way to be like I would be doing this if I was not the guy from system of the down. I would still be doing this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's for me. Yeah. It's not even an approach. It's just the way it is. That's the way I know. That's the way I've watched my dad. That's the way I've seen art. You do it because you enjoy it. You love it. It's an itch. And you want to impress yourself. How is it different playing by yourself versus playing with a band?

26:40I mean, with a band, you're rehearsing to play a song playing by myself more intimate. I don't really play in front of people anymore. By yourself. Yeah. Like, remember, I said I used to take my guitar. Yeah. For some reason, once the band got kind of big, something changed in me. Every time I picked up a guitar, front of people became this like some kind of big deal or something to them. Do you think people had expectations or something? I don't know, but I kind of don't like I wait for my girl to go to bed. Like, she doesn't rarely ever seize me play the guitar. It's always when I'm alone. Yeah.

27:25Yeah. And you can entertain yourself alone for a long time doing it. Yeah. Hours and hours. Yeah. And not just guitar. Like I said, it's not like I'm not in love with this. I'm in love with making sounds, synthesizers, you know, make and stuff. Anything that feels right to me at that moment that I have a craving and my cravings change. Sometimes I the my craving is the guitar. Sometimes I only want to play in clean. Sometimes I don't want to plug it in. I just want to play it like that. And you see things change when you don't plug it in and write something as opposed to put some distortion on that.

28:04I haven't been right. Something I think it has something to do with what you're hearing or how it feels on your fingers. I think how it feels and hearing. Sure. I mean, you are you're hearing it. But, you know, you put an effect on it, makes you play a different something. Well, not putting anything is an effect on all its own as well. So most of your songs are straightforward guitar plugged into the amp. Not too much. Not a lot of tricks. But I don't count out that maybe I may do some tricks. Yeah. You're not against it. Yeah. But just most of you just hasn't happened that way. Yeah. Was system your first bander you been banned before?

28:48The first band situation I ever played for was with these three guys and we used to play Metallica covers in their dads little garage. I was probably about 13 years old around that time. Did you ever jam with other people? There was more playing songs without the people at that time. It was more playing songs with other people towards the end of high school. I met this guy at a party and he was with someone that I had gone to elementary school with who I hadn't seen for a long time. They were looking for a singer and I was like, okay, I can sing. I'm a singer. They had a lead guitar player guy.

29:26But I said, for me, the guitar and the vocals, it kind of comes together. I'm like a combo deal there. And so I went and tried out for their band. And they were into what I was doing. We played paranoid like Black Sabbath. And, you know, we're like, just kind of hit. Shobble was there. And Shobble was also someone I remembered from that Armenian elementary school that I went to that I had left a while ago. But he's a year older than I am. So he was in the class, but I remember Shobble from there. So there was a few people that came to those rehearsals that were from that elementary school. And Shobble was there.

30:12And so he heard us and he kind of told the guys in the band that were his friends. He's like, just get rid of the guitar player and bring this guy. And he's kind of, you know, doing the guitar and he's singing. And you know, you guys kind of sound more alive. And then I started bringing songs into that band. They were more like kind of rock. This is like, we're talking early 90s, late 80s. The glam scene was still kind of like hair metal. It was more towards that direction music, but little heavier than hair metal. But we didn't really have the hair. But the style of the music was that kind of more rock.

30:55It wasn't very metal. It was more rock. And so yeah, Shobble told them, you know, keep this guy and get rid of the other guy. And that's kind of what ended up happening. And then so that band shared a rehearsal studio with a band that's Serge played with, but Serge and it's saying Serge just played the keyboards at that time. He had never sang before. So I was the singer. And at some point that band wanted to get rid of their singer and asked me to, like Serge has been asked me to be their singer. But I was like, they sang an Armenian. I could do it. But I just wasn't something that I was felt.

31:37I felt a little bit out of my skin singing in Armenia. I was sang in English. So I never became their singer, but I started jamming with them. Did the kids in that band were they born in the United States? Were they born somewhere else? Do you know? Probably born in Lebanon. So born in Lebanon, which is so maybe Serge was born in Lebanon. You grew up here. Yeah. We're born here. Yeah. So English was your first language. You know, you know some Armenian. No, I speak I went to Armenian school. I mean, I speak Armenian. I can sing Armenian. Yeah. It's just not something I wanted to do at that time.

32:12I didn't, I don't know, it just didn't flow out of me the same way English still. So many of the kids have the same story of parents coming to the US similar situation. Well, depends what country they're coming from. Tell me some of the examples because I don't know anything about the war or one like the Lebanese Armenians came here because there was war at that time in their country. Persian Armenians came here because the Ayatollah took over at some point 79. Iraq, Armenians, Saddam. So everyone was kind of coming here for a better life. Things were changing in the countries that they grew up in.

32:56Which takes balls, man. Yeah. For sure. I mean, if she was changing here, I don't know if I'd be a get up and leave and go to fucking Iraq. Yeah. No, it's radical. And I went to Iraq. Yeah. When I was 14 years old, my mom took me to Iraq. What was that like? And when I was 14, I was full on speed metal. But I had a Mali Kruhti shirt on the whole time. And I was walking around Iraq with a Mali Kruhti shirt. And it had like this chick's ass.

33:30And our luggage was lost. So that's all I had. And so I wear this Mali Kruhti shirt. And I think it was like Nikki Sixx on a motorcycle or something. And it was this chick with her ass. And out. And so it was a culture shock. I was there for two months. Wow. I saw my family. I mean, people I only saw in pictures. Yes. In my grandmother, my aunt's because. And so I it was nice to see them. But this was it like the height of Saddam. So everywhere you turned with Saddam. If we were in this room, you better have that picture of him up there because they'll question you if you don't. So business, everyone's house.

34:12You walk outside. There's a statue. You look at where there's a picture. You look over there. The building. There's no marble at. It's a Saddam ad. Two channels on the television. One of them Saddam all day. One of them Saddam half the day.

34:30And I'm from Hollywood. Yeah. You know, and not used to this life. So it was like I had all these all my cassettes with me with my Walkman. And I took a bunch of metal magazines and I read through every sink. I was a little I was bored. But Slayer, Show No Mercy. That was when I think of Iraq, I think of Slayer, Show No Mercy. Because that was the album that I had on in my head a lot. And it was just two months of it was a very educational. I mean, you know, I learned a lot about, you know, how the world is different than where I come from. And you know, you say anything bad about Saddam. Like I would be this little punk kid and I'm like, what if we told Saddam to fuck off they'd like, shh.

35:23Don't fucking say it. They'll take you away. Yeah, don't say that shit. Man, you're crazy. The people live in fear. Yeah. The people live in fear. You don't fuck around. Yeah. You don't say that kind of thing. You put the picture up. Yeah. Yeah. So. And I think I might be the first person that might have taken that kind of music to Iraq in 1989. When I put on for my cousins, they like Slayer, Mattel. They never heard anything like that before. What the hell is this? It's like, this is music. So the music they were hearing was more like what your parents grew up on. Yes. Or a pop version of that as time went on.

36:08Yeah. Yeah. And then were you happy to come back to Hollywood? Well, we were living in Glendale at that time. But I was a kid that grew up in Hollywood that, you know, we only had been living in Glendale for like two years at that point. Yeah. So, yeah. You know, I was happy. But during the first Iraq war, the desert storm. Yeah. That's when I learned the media lies to you. That was only about 15 years old at that time. What would the lies? Well, just kind of dehumanizing the people in Iraq so the people here would be more open to us throwing bombs over their heads. Both times are very tough for my family because it's my grandmother that's there.

37:00It's my aunt that's there. I knew know that they're good people like you. Yeah. And I know the other people in Iraq were very nice people as well. Yeah. Maybe they didn't like Saddam, but it had nothing to do with the people. No. Half the people hated Saddam. More than half the people hated Saddam. They just couldn't come out and say that they hated Saddam. Yeah. But, you know, my family didn't like Saddam. On the most part, I still have some ants that like I once who liked them. What did they like? Well, in their head was like, just don't start trouble and trouble won't come to you. And that's kind of the deal.

37:38It's like if you mind your own business, everything's fine. Yeah, don't try to overthrow the government. Don't try to conspire to do things just, you know, live your life and you'll be fine. Yeah. So it was only if you went against the government that you'd be in trouble. Yeah, but his sons, you know, were fucking assholes too. They would pick on people you would say, I mean, there was a movie about it. Like the guy would like go to a wedding and take the bride and fuck the bride. And I mean, his sons were probably bigger son of a bitches than he was. And, you know, torture and, you know, if they assume, maybe you didn't do anything and they just assumed and your next thing, you know, you're being fucking tortured and there's like, you're in a room with cigarettes going out and you're fucking eyeballs or some shit.

38:24You know, I mean, I don't fucking, you know, I don't, I couldn't tell you the details as well as my family members can who lived there. I was only there for two months, but. And they were all happy to get out. Some of them wish things just didn't change because it was their home. Yeah, I just said like so they missed their home, but their home changed. So that no choice because once again, you had ISIS that I got them out of there before all that shit started happening, you know, their Christians. Yeah. So not the safest place to be a Christian when ISIS is running around town chopping ads off.

39:05And they just assumed that, you know, you might be doing something against them and you're screwed. That's, you know, like I said, they detained my uncle back in the day because he accidentally bumped into some guy's bike and that guy happened to be some huge official. It was total accident. They take him to this room and they made him feel like they were going to kill him. Yeah. And his head, he was like, fuck this. I got to find a way out of here.

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41:10You get asked to sing for the band that surges in. So I don't do that, but I ended up jamming with them a lot. You know, I'd rehearse with my band and then if they came in, I would stick around and I would play guitar with them. We friends with all of them? I got to know them through this situation. Not really. I wasn't really friends with anybody to be honest with you. It was just people to play music. The guys we shared our studio with and that's kind of how I got to know them. Yeah. You know, it's not like I'd mean them for years. They're older than I was. Surges, eight years older than I am.

41:50But that's how Serge and I became friends through. They're serious about that band. Did they think that's so sure it was kind of like a weekend kind of guys that had other things going on, but they played like, you know, they had equipment and they enjoyed playing and jamming. But I'm not sure they were trying to take it anywhere. I mean, through my life, I was always like anyone who knew me when I was a kid would tell you he always said that this is what he wanted to do. Like if you met me at eight years old, if you met me at 12 years old, anyone who knew me through my life knew. So as I was getting older, they even called me to the school counselor once and I'm a high school dropout and I got kicked out of my high school twice.

42:40They sent me to a continuation school. I don't know if you know what that is. It's where all the pregnant girls go.

42:50So pregnant girls, gangsters, the kids that were, you know, more trouble. I see. You know, would go there because it ain't working out for you. You ditch all day or you get into too many fights. Or you know what I mean, you just they send you away to this school. It was like a bunch of bungalows for lunch and lunch truck would show up. Like it was totally different. But anyway, they sent me to the counselor and they're like, you know, you're failing all your classes. You hardly show up to school. You should show you ditch. You probably go to one or two classes. Like what do you want to do? What do you want to do with your life?

43:28And I go, I'm a musician. They're like, you're a musician. You've been men. You knew it. Yeah. You thought of yourself as that. Yeah. I said, I'm gonna. So they're like, what's your plan? I go, I'm gonna start a band. I'm a plan on a sunset strip. That's what I told my counselors. And they even had like a school psychiatrist there and every day I knew it was everything good at home. And I'm like, everything's fine. But it was just something that in my head, I had convinced myself that this is gonna happen. I don't know, man. I was very confident. Yeah. So they're like, all right, off the CT you go, then, you know, they sent me to CT.

44:08But so through my late teenage years, I was always looking for the band. Yeah. This is the band that I feel like I can make it in. Yeah. Like I might have been in a band, but I was like, I don't think this band's gonna make it. When you say make it, the aspiration was to play on the sunset strip. Yeah. And become popular on the sunset strip, I guess. But you didn't think about playing like last time I saw you play 60 ,000 people came to see you play songs that you've recorded more than 15 years ago. But that was never the goal. The goal was a club band. Well, at that point, the goal was to just start a band that you feel confident with.

44:51And you're gonna go play the clubs. That's all I knew. I didn't like, I don't really, I didn't know the business. I didn't just a kid. I didn't really know what you had to do to how old were you at that time? 16. Yeah. So tell me about looking for the band. Well, it's just, you know, we would and anyone who I told that to would say to me, really, how many Armenians do you know that made it? That's from my Armenian, from my Armenian friends. People would not be supported or not not be supported. I had a lot of support, but obviously it's it's people didn't believe it was possible. It's it's a pretty far fetched thing to you know, not really.

45:34How many how many bands actually do get there? You know, it's very rare. Very few. You might probably be better off get buying a lottery ticket or something. You know what I mean? I get it's really rare. But I had confidence. And then one day my guitar got stolen. So I was looking for another guitar. And I went to a guitar store and the Tracy guns, the guitar player from LA Guns, walks into the guitar store. And I'm jamming, I'm playing. And he's like, you're going to buy that guitar? He goes, I got that guitar, come to my house and we'll see what kind of, well, maybe I'll give you it for a good deal or something like that.

46:17And at this time, this guy was on MTV and you know, I mean my LA Guns was doing okay. So me and my cousin, she drove me to the guitar store. We ended up. He was originally in Guns and Rosas. Why they were called Guns and Rosas. Yeah. Because of Tracy guns and Axel Rose. I know. But now he's in LA Guns. So we went to his place and my cousin asks him. She goes, you know, my little cousin here, he's always talking about like he wants to do something in music. He wants to make it in music. She goes, aren't there like a zillion bands in LA that, and at this time it was like, you know, it was, it was that.

46:59And he said, so he said, uh, yeah, there are, but there's only a couple of good ones. And for me, I was like, all right. I want to be one of those good ones. No, I was like, I am. I was like, oh, ready. That's great. I was like, I'm almost there then. You know what I mean? In my head, I was like, cocky. That's great. That's great. Funny because I don't really have that in me anymore. The second way I went, but that kid was really. Yeah. Anyway. So, you know, okay, cool. That was that experience in a gaming, you know, it was like, so it does matter if you're good or bad too. Yeah. Some guys make it because they have connections.

47:37But if you're actually good, there's a chance. Yeah. You know, there's a chance. Yeah. So just be good. Put something together that's good. So yeah. And then, you know, life happens. And that band I was in that was sharing the rehearsal for one reason or the other didn't work out. Sarah, Janai kind of became closer friends and started hanging out. And somewhere down the line, I didn't want to be. I really look up to people like Pete Townsend. I really looked up to the guys that are like those guys in their band. I think Jerry Cantrell is one of them. You know, they sing. But they're more of like the writer or the guy who's producing what's happening.

48:23The guy was kind of setting the tape. And Sarah, at the same time, wanted to become a singer. But he had never really fronted a band or remember, they asked me to sing. Yeah. So it was like this transition that happened where I pulled my singing back, still sang, but pulled it back. And he was trying to find himself at this time. Let's just say early Sarah. Yeah. So anyway, this happened and me and him meet. We stick with the bass player from my other band. But we meet this guy who's this Hawaiian drummers. He was some tall guy that played like a beast. His name was Domingo. And that's when we became soil, which was the band before system.

49:15So it's you search Domingo and the bass player from your previous band. Yeah. Were any of the soil songs later system songs parts of them? I see. Like the end of sugar. I sit in my desk. The song soil.

49:36That was a soil song. Tentative, which came like on mesmerized hypnotize. That riff was from the soil days. The song wasn't the same, but that riff I wrote tentative with that riff in there. So once again, this was very early on in Serge's vocal in as a vocalist. So he was doing some stuff that was kind of cool. But then he was doing some stuff that I don't think we were getting yet. I wasn't and Domingo wasn't. So Domingo really wasn't. You know, he was like, you know, what's he, what's, you know, he does this crazy stuff and this quirky stuff. And you know, and I was kind of real, I was like 18, 19 years old at this time.

50:29This guy was much older than I was. So he was kind of more leader. Yeah. Then than I was in the situation. And so behind Serge's back, we would try out other guys. We would like tell Serge, we're not rehearsing today. And someone else would come in and try out mostly because he really wanted somebody else. And Domingo wanted to see that. Yeah. Yeah. And I was kind of, I kind of understood because Serge had not developed yet. He was still green as a singer. Yes. He was really a keyboard player. Yeah. Had you ever sung together yet?

51:15Yeah. And this track that we did called Waco Jesus, it was about David Kuresh. We sang together on that track, but that never became a soil song. Soil was like the songs were not really songs. They were like, the way I always see it is system of a down is the song version of the soil sound. I see. The sound of system of a down was kind of there. Yeah. Not fully, but kind of there. Yeah. How long was soil? How many years? Not even years. Maybe a year. One year. Maybe a year we played one gig. Okay. Only one gig was soil. Yeah. It was at this little cafe. The stage was so small that the first riff I fell off and I fell on a strum set over the other band.

52:06Like it was like the stage was this tiny thing and I was like, wow, and I was so hungry to be on stage. And I just couldn't keep myself from just losing it. And I just accidentally fell off the stage onto a drum set. But that was our only gig. Shavo was there. You know, we're having a little pit. So Shavo would come into the soil rehearsals as a friend. Like a guy that I really like what you guys are doing, man. And he was just, yeah, I want to call him a fan. He was a friend. But he liked like he dug the band and he was just supportive and he played some guitar. He wasn't really a bass player at the time.

52:46He was just, you know, playing guitar not really as long as I had been playing. But maybe for a couple of years and you know, he was getting better. And through that time, I started becoming friends with Shavo. And Shavo and I started hanging out more. So anyway, we played. So I played that one gig. Domingo was from Hawaii. He decided, I guess he had a kid or something and he moved to back to Hawaii. Soil was gone. At this point, I was like, okay, Shavo and I have been really good friends and we've been talking a lot and we have a lot in common with like the heavier stuff. Like, you know, we like like Sepul Toro.

53:30We both like Pantera. We both like these heavier band death metal bands, you know. So I decided to bring Shavo in. And I didn't really discuss it with anybody, but we brought Shavo in and he wasn't really a band yet. Yeah, it was. The drummer left. Yeah. So yeah. And after trying so many singers, I was like, none of these guys are better than Sarah. Yeah. You know, yeah. And I started appreciating some of the things that maybe I didn't appreciate early on. Yeah. So Sarah was still there. Shavo came into the picture and that was the beginning of system of a down. We had the band name before we even had the, you know, it was we I was sitting the car with Shavo and we would just listen to music and talk about, you know, be cool to start a band.

54:30It's like, you know, kind of like this like metal, but you know, we just we were we talk a lot. And he even like mentioned one time he's like, and yeah, we'll get one day. We'll get recrooved to produce. It's fucking crazy. It's crazy. Because he is not even a band yet. We didn't have a drummer. You know, it's amazing. Yeah. And so I was going to Valley College at the time. Not really. I was just going there to show my mom like, oh, look, I'm doing something to respond. But I would ditch that too. But I reconnected with Andy, which was the drummer that was with the band before soil that I was in.

55:16And we reconnected and I was like, it didn't work out last time with him. There was some personality things going on. But I was like, maybe things have changed. We really need a drummer. He's good. I brought Andy in and we're like, let's jam with Andy guys. And you know, everyone kind of knew Andy. But we were a little hesitant because it was we had our issues in the past. I had known Andy since the third grade. I went to elementary school. But once Andy came in, that's it. We just started playing. I started I brought in a song. I remember the first song I brought in was a song called Flake. We never played it.

56:02Never recorded it. It was okay. But you know, I had brought in the vocals and the arrangement. And we played and you know, the band started developing. I would bring in more songs. And then I would start writing with, you know, Sarge's vocals in mind. We all hung out at the studio together. We all listened to music together. We all got stoned together. Like there's something about that. That's part of the band's development when you're all listening to the same type of stuff. And once again, Sarge just Sarge doesn't come from the rock influence world. So I or metal even, I mean, his brother had a big CD collection.

56:47We'll listen to that stuff. But Sarge not so much. And so I would always be like trying to turn Sarge on to like listen to this guy. Listen to this. Listen to that. And just try to open his ears to like, you know, styles and, you know, believe it or not, the doors were like a big influence. I love the doors. I wouldn't make the connection. But that's really cool. Well, the spoken word stuff. Like I would like a song like War, we will fight the heathens, we will fight the heathens. So I had the verse in the cover for a bridge. You know, a lot of guys would go into a guitar solo. And for me, I was like, what if we just, he talks over it.

57:27And so I would write these parts. So it would give him space to have those spoken word moments. And then he would say, well, I wouldn't tell him what to say. He would say. So yeah. And so systems started developing. And, you know, we started playing in clubs. We played in clubs for a while with Andy. And then the band was starting to get popular in the club scene. And I knew once I knew that was it. I knew this was the band. This was the band. Yeah. Like, I felt it. This is the band that I was looking for.

58:12Did you know how far out your songs were? I never saw that. Because they just come to you naturally. I think there is something abstract about system of a down. Yes. Metal music is, it tends not to be an abstract form. So bringing that abstraction and Middle Eastern roots to metal changes everything. It really was. It was like nothing I ever heard before. I mean, I think we were trying to do something that wasn't copying other people. But I'm not sure how much of it was so intentional. Yeah. Because it was not came natural to you. It's how you heard the music. Yeah. And then the way he sang was the way he sang.

59:07Absolutely. And it just made for a good combination. Or, you know, I mean, I wrote a lot of vocals myself. So the vocal style of system of a down is a mix between me and Serge. And then somewhere down the line, things were not working out with Andy. And this was like close to when we were starting to get some interest from labels and stuff like this. And we felt like if we want to take this far, it's probably not going to happen with him in the band. And it was really tough because he said he was a very talented guy. I'll never take that away from him. He is. He's still alive. You know, he is a really talented drummer, keyboard player.

59:54And he ended up becoming the singer of a band called the Apex Theory. Cool. Yeah. So it wasn't his talent. Let's just say. And John was someone that was a guy that was shared a rehearsal studio with. So he was in another band. He was in another band that system and that band shared a studio with our drum set, his drum set were like face to face. And and um, Shavo and I were like at our pot dealers house. And Shavo goes to me, hey, guess what? What Andy broke his arm? He punched a wall and he broke all the bones in his arm.

1:00:36And I looked replayed with John before. Yeah, just jamming. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I knew he was a good drummer. I know he can handle it. He was a different drummer than Andy. Not as loose. Yeah. As Andy, but more solid, dependable, strong. Yeah. That's when I think of John's drumming, it's solid. It's strong. It doesn't wave. No. You know, he's super solid. Yeah. Super solid. Yeah. And groovy too. Yeah. Yeah. And apparently John was like before you guys called me, he goes every single one of you had had a conversation with me saying that this might happen because because things were kind of the writing was on the wall that Andy is not going to make it.

1:01:19Yeah, it was just looking that way. And um, first rehearsal, John knew a lot of our songs already because he had been there for our rehearsals listening to them. He'd probably been there in some times when we were like writing them, just hanging out because the studio for us was a place where both was the hangout for both bands for all the guys. Yeah. So he caught on to it right away. That was kind of towards the end of the sunset strip transitioning into getting signed. So the first album was called System of a Down Yeah. 1998, which song would be representative of this era of system? Sweepy sugar or pluck.

1:02:07More of the heavy stuff. I think the goal at that time was play the clubs and start a pit, you know, and I mean be heavy, be unique, but be heavy, you know, and yeah, to get the energy to get the response from the audience. Yeah. Yeah. So let's see. Let's see Sweepy.

1:02:54Everyone cry. Everyone cry. Everyone cry.

1:03:31See for me that just came naturally like try like when that part don't do don't do don't do it was just like it should go into this. I don't know. I can't tell you why or it just you're in your little trance and it just goes that way. And I can see our doors like moments. You know what I'm saying? It's not pretty sound like the doors, but I understand the connection in that change and the dynamics of the vocals also be something we might be in the door.

1:04:24You're really funny to me. You know, you know, some people you always tell the story of like when you first saw us you were laughing or you were there are some guys in bands that might take it bends to that. I like that there is a sense of humor in system of a dance music. We too. Because it's emotion and you're trying to cover different emotions not just one and sense of humor is something I think a lot of guys can't pull off. A lot of bands can't pull off sense of humor. You don't hear it too much sense of humor in rock music. You know, Zappa maybe had, you know, a little bit of some fun. It's also the combination of how hard it is and how quirky it is that makes it funny.

1:05:15It's so extremely hard and it goes from seemingly light vocal ideas to the screaming vocal ideas right next to each other. The juxtapositions are wild. It still makes me laugh listening to it just like first time I saw it. I think it's just what like I said it none of it was done to like on purpose. I think it just the combination of my writing and whatever vocal style I have mixed with Serge's vocal style and the influences that we had and our influences were heavy bands or like cannibal corpse and things like this. But we also had influences like the Beatles, the Doors and Armenian and ethnic and we all grew up around that kind of stuff.

1:06:15So there was stuff in our roots that I don't think were in the roots of other bands and it was done in an honest way. There's some bands that mix ethnic stuff with metal but it's like okay we're playing metal and then it goes into the ethnic part and it just it's not a mutation that like it should belong like when two people have a child and you see the characteristic of one parent and the other parent and like it makes something new. But it sounds like this thing combined with this thing and we do the A part for a while and then we shift to the B part for a while it's more like they belong together together they're making a new thing.

1:06:59Yes. And that new thing we have not heard before I've not heard it before. Yes that's what I'm mostly proud of if I accomplished that as a writer and the band accomplishes that as a band that it sounds like we're bringing worlds together but these worlds belong together. They weren't forced to be together so we can be the band that mixes all that stuff together. Do you remember anything about writing sweet beef? Again in my room at my parents house I had vocal phrasing but I didn't have the words and you know so when I brought the song into the band it was probably like you know something like that and they had the phrasing but not the lyrics.

1:07:49Yeah. Probably for the choruses and Serge kind of went off and did his thing in the verses. Yeah that's pretty much how I brought him but like when I wrote the song itself I can't remember exactly what it's just trying to be dry be trying to be heavy trying to start a pit you know like in those little guitar things that I sometimes did it in those days probably more than I would in these days or even later on in the band just little intro like it was almost like the tiny explodes into you know it really does. It's like it's pushing it's pushing the part is so much heavier coming after that. Yeah.

1:08:36If it just started after the intro it wouldn't have the same effect at all. Yeah it gives it some it makes it crazy. Yes. It makes it zany. Yes. And I think that's what we were going for. You know that's what I was at least going for and we were that at that time. Remember what we used to look like at that time? You know and match the music in a way we all were very theatrical very very made up. We looked kind of like not from this planet in a way at that time. So it all kind of matched the way we looked matched our music matched the live show matched the way we moved on stage. We were very. Tell me about how the album comes out going on tour what was the experience like of first album comes out.

1:09:27I could only speak for myself. Everything that I said I wanted to happen for myself because I don't I can't speak for Sarah. I can't speak. We're jumping just for myself as where I wanted my life to go was starting to happen. And I felt a lot of pressure especially being the guy who's like you know the main writer in the situation. And I was having a lot of panic attacks all of a sudden just being at the movie theater one second I'm laughing next thing like my hands my palms. I remember once we were playing at the whiskey I just I turned pale and they called the ambulance my heart started beating really fast.

1:10:09And I was just having like I didn't even know what a panic attack was but I was getting them. And I'd never left home before things that I wanted to happen were happening and that was positive but once again I was I was I was I like 22 23 maybe so I was really young and experienced the world I was was a kid. And so yeah I had to kind of learn how to meditate. What do you think the pressure was about? Here's your chance. I see you didn't want to blow it. I don't want to blow it and and that kind of stayed through the albums too like where it was just you know I didn't wasn't getting the panic attacks but I just always I didn't really didn't want to blow it.

1:11:00I knew how important the second record was and I was already thinking about the second record when the first record was coming out you know we went on towards Slayer. I mean I had Slayer on my fucking wall in my headphones in Iraq and now I'm on the bus with Tom and Kerry and hanging out with Slayer and then we were on the Osfest and there was Aussie. I used to have dreams where Aussie was having dinner with me and my parents when I was like eight years old. I was always obsessed with these people where you know I was a big fan you know I had a lot of respect and so there I am in the same room and I have an album out the way they do and also I it felt like okay now we're being looked at with the bands that have albums out not just like the Sunset Strip bands anymore so I never looked at it as like competitors but the bands that you're surrounded with now are the top bands in the world.

1:12:05Yeah. So that felt like pressure but I didn't feel like I didn't belong. I was like I think we're good man like play after us. Historically opening for Slayer is a tough slot because Slayer audiences are probably the least open to hearing anyone but Slayer. Yeah. How was the experience for you? I kind of played the heel like in wrestling. Yeah. And I would like mock them if they weren't yelling Slayer. If they weren't chanting Slayer during our thing I would start them and I would say you're not big enough Slayer fan. You're not chanting Slayer and that's how I played it and I think it worked with them because all those same places we came back and we had lined pretty soon after that.

1:12:56Amazing. And do you feel like by the end of the set the Slayer audience was accepting most of the time? Some of them I mean we didn't because you know the way we looked was not Slayer audience. And the Slayer friendly. No. And the way we sounded. Yeah. That does difficult of a gig as you can possibly do. It's like having metal boot camp if you were yeah. At that time especially too. Yeah. First time I saw Slayer was with Anthrax Megadeth. I can't remember who the fourth band was. And from the beginning before the first band went on the crowd was chanting Slayer through all three bands until Slayer got on stage for hours.

1:13:47Slayer. Slayer. It was insane. No it was stuff of legend. Those Slayer shows in the earlier even before our time with them. You would read about it in magazine and people get hurt in the pits and it was intimidating. Slayer was intimidating. The most audience was intimidating. The band was intimidating. Yeah. So wild. I'm so glad you got to do it. Well I make sure you had a lot to do. What the hell. But it really makes you good like standing up to that. US and Europe. Amazing. Our first tour in the US and our first tour in Europe. And the Europe was a little tougher. Yeah. There was one show I think it was in Germany where we played the same place two nights in a row.

1:14:37The first we used to open our set with no on the first record starts with drums and do do do do do do do do do. Anyway, so we play the song Nothing. No response. Crickets. I only just kept playing our set. Yeah. The next day I came to the band and I said if the same thing happens after no, John start no again. And we're going to play They know until you cheer. And we're gonna play that same fucking song. Wow. We didn't have to play it more than twice, but we played it twice. Yeah. And they cheered after the second time. Yeah, you challenged them. Yeah, and that's kind of how that went with the slayer shit.

1:15:20It's like, fuck you. You know, like amazing. It was kind of like that. You weren't intimidated by the audience. I mean, in real life, there was this venue we played once in Portugal that they told us if they don't like you, they throw syringes at you. So we walk into this place, and the roof has a bunch of syringes on the roof of the place. People like throwing them up there and they've stuck up there. So I wore long sleeves and you're going up there and nobody threw syringes at us. But imagine like that's the hot, pretty rough. And then in Poland, they hated us ones. That's kind of a more historic kind of system show where we get there and there's an audience and there's dudes in the front with like SS, fucking signs and just intimidating.

1:16:19And they weren't having it. They didn't like us very much. And they started throwing things at us. Yeah, and Serge was like, turn on the lights, turn on the lights. And then they threw a bagel at Serge and it hit Serge and they were throwing coins at me. And then I was kind of playing it where I would pick up the coins and I would like put them in my pocket and I was blowing kisses at the SS guys. But Serge kind of like took a tunnel and I'm like, oh, no, this isn't good. Like you're not going to be able to fight with thousands of people, man. So he was like, turn on the lights, who threw that, who did that?

1:16:57And the bagel came flying at him. And that was the Poland show. These are all places we've gone back and now we're like headliners, but like amazing. We had some shows that in Europe that not everybody understood us right away. Did you know that when you went back, it was going to be okay? Or not until you went back? I mean, if we were headlining the next time around, the smaller theaters, so it wasn't with Slayer. So. And then next time we were back, people were singing along with every word. It was more of an accepting audience. Yeah, it was like the London Astoria, the first time we played with Slayer, the next time we went there, it was our show.

1:17:37Grin, the crowd was, amp. Like, you know, we started selling thousands, theaters, thousand, five hundred. Still on the first album or not? The first album. Still on the first album. Yeah. So you went around two times on the first album, dealt with the Slayer audience, and then went back and all good. Yeah, more accepting. Yeah. We were growing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the word was going out and we were building our fan base.

1:18:06Who were the other bands in the scene at the time that you were coming up? Who would have been the contemporaries? I mean, Corn was doing their thing, DevTones were doing their thing. I guess it's the scene that people like to call new metal. I know a lot of people see system of a down is new metal. We don't really see it that way. I like the word alternative metal, maybe more. I think we're a little more experimental. I think so too. And we were taking things. We had songs like spiders, aerials, atwa, that had like weren't necessarily metal influences. They were kind of been psychedelic influences and different kinds of rock influences.

1:18:58So bands we played with an LA, some of them got signed, Static X, cold chamber. Again, bands that you put into the new metal. But it just, it just so happens that we were around at the same time and we came through the same scene as they did. But I never felt like we really sounded like, I like those bands. All the bands I just mentioned, I think are a really good band. But I don't think we really sounded like them. I feel like we were doing something a little detached. So the second album is toxicity 2001. What would you say was different about this album than the first album? Vocal harmonies.

1:19:46First album I had a couple vocal parts. On our demos I had like there was a song called Damn where I sang the whole song. So me singing in the band was not something foreign to the band. But like in Chopsui and there was just more, more vocal, Serge and I started doing more vocal harmonies with like on Atua, Arels. Which one would be a good one to demonstrate?

1:20:19I love Atua. Great.

1:20:26I wrote it about Charles Manson.

1:20:32Atua was his environmental thing. But this new metal bands were not doing this. Yeah. You see me, pictures crazy. All the world I've seen before. These type of harmonies. I've got nothing to gain to lose. All the world I've seen before. I'm passing by. You don't get my power. I don't feel a ready for. You don't get my power. I don't feel a ready for. And it felt very natural for me to go into this after that. There was nothing weird about it to me. Or to us as a band. That's like Simon and Garfungo.

1:22:10I'm passing by. Totally normal, nothing to see here.

1:22:18It's so funny. And when we did interviews and people would be like, you know, your time signature. And none of us are like really school musicians. So we're not like peeling. Yeah, we just peel that time signature or whatever it's going in here.

1:22:36And it's just, to me, it's just an emotional nice song. I mean, I do. All the world I've seen before me passing by.

1:23:07I knew that I was going to start singing more as time went on. I didn't want to overdo it. So there was room for growth. Yeah, the band developed over time. And one of the developments was you got to sing more. You got to sing harmony. If you listen to the first system album, the idea of the next album having vocal harmony, you wouldn't imagine it. Yeah, because it's so heavy. That you don't associate harmony in that kind of music. I don't know if there's any super heavy music that has harmony. I don't know. Or that kind of harmony. Garfunkel Simon Garfunkel type of harmony. Yeah. It's just, you know, what I like to listen to.

1:24:02And it just kind of comes out naturally out of the writing when you don't put limitations and walls and say, well, this just has to be heavier. We just got to be hard. It all complements each other. And I think even more they amplify each other. It's like the hard sections seem insane coming after the Simon and Garfunkel Part. Simon and Garfunkel Parts nice, nice song going along, maybe moody. But then the... And it gives you a break from the hard too, you know. Yeah, but then the hard comes in and it's wild. And then we go back to Simon and Garfunkel and then it gets hard again. But then it gets really hard.

1:24:47Where it already seemed too hard for what came before it. Now it goes to the next extreme. It's exciting because I don't know any other music that works like this. It's so... The dynamics are so extreme. And in a way, it almost seems like it shouldn't work, but it does. And everybody in the band has to be versatile. John can't just be a heavy metal drummer. John is a very versatile drummer. Yeah. Sarah's Chess can't be a heavy metal singer. I can't just be a heavy metal writer. Everyone in the band has to have broad taste and open mind for it to come off and be played as musicians. Yeah. Where it works, you know, where the style works.

1:25:40I know a lot of great heavy metal drummers, but they're one trick pony. And they play that stuff really great, but probably wouldn't work on songs that I write. Because I need you to go from place to place. Yeah. Sometimes very quickly. Yeah. Okay, so tell me about the experience of this album coming out and going on tour for... Well, we were bigger. Chop Sui comes out. Next thing you know, we're walking in the malls and kids recognize us. That life changed after that. I guess you can say, you know, MTV was still playing videos at that time, and they were having your rotation of Chop Sui. Remember anything about riding Chop Sui?

1:26:32Yeah, I was in the... Either we were still in RV or I was in the back of the bus, and I had a guitar, and that's pretty much where the main... Can you grab a guitar and show me what came first? Two parts. The intro came first.

1:26:53The... Once again, this is probably not tuned correctly, but I'm just...

1:27:02That came first.

1:27:11Now I can't remember if I did... Or if I just went into... I don't remember what came first after that, but those parts pretty much came together. The vocal came very natural. Well, the vocal pretty much walks with the... Like, my lyrics were different. Wait, go, tell me what you think about tomorrow. Is it gonna be a pain in sorrow? Tell me what you think about the people. Is it gonna be another sequel? That was my original lyrics, but I wasn't married to them. Yeah. The search pretty much sang. It didn't change the song, so I was like, you know, so he sang that. And then Serge put in the repeat vocals.

1:27:55You wanted to, that? Well, wake up, wake up, doesn't it? Oh, yeah, yeah. No, Serge took it to that other place. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I loved it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd never heard anything like that either. It was so unusual. I remember not even knowing what to make of it. It was so unusual. Yeah. I didn't think it was gonna be the song that it was gonna be. I mean, it's our most popular song. It's the song that introduced the world to us, I guess you could say. Yeah. But that whole...

1:28:35That kind of just float out of me. The lyrics just float out of me. The lyrics, meaning for me, was how... See, I'm not sure the verse matches what my lyrics are saying. But the lyrics for me was how people judge people on how they die. Like, for example, if you died of cancer, poor guy, if you died of a drug overdose, you had it coming. It's like how people are judgmental. I cry when angels deserve to die. It's like how people are judgmental, even in someone's death. So that's what my lyrics meant. Wake up, grab a brush, pull a little makeup. Till this day, I'm not sure where that comes from and what that really means.

1:29:19But it fit really well. And it is what it is. It's what became the song. And then the middle part, I think you have the story of where you guys... I wasn't there, but... Yeah, in the library pulling down. Well, there was no vocals there because all I had was... Oh, no. Oh, no. That's all I had. I didn't have the whole... I think you and Serge put that together with the Bible. Yeah, whatever... I don't even know if it was a Bible, whatever book it was, he pulled down and just randomly picked it, but that did happen. Yeah. And so that's how that part came about. And there you have it. You have Chop Sui.

1:30:00And it's our most famous song, the one that people recognize the most from system of a down. And it came to me all in the back when we were... I don't know where we were driving through, but we were on tour. And I was just sitting in the back playing a guitar. And... So where it came from? Let's hear it. We're rolling suicide. Oh, and it was called suicide before.

1:30:35So I was doing a lot of layering in the back. And experimenting with layering during toxicity recording.

1:31:12I think you might have been the... You wanted to though. Really? I really would. Because you would make suggestions like that.

1:31:44I would make suggestions like that. I would make suggestions like that. I would make suggestions like that. I would make suggestions like that.

1:32:04I would make suggestions like that. I mean, it's so good. Serge and I have very different voices. It's a hot and cold type of thing, I think.

1:32:36It's so hot.

1:32:51And that riff underneath, every time I hear it, there's a death metal band called Obituary. You're my do -at. Yeah, I'm like, that's where you did that. That's why you played that. You love Obituary. Dispatchin' it that a bit too. It's that again.

1:33:13But see, these are your ideas though. I think so because you would always kind of tell us it has to end off big and dramatic. And this does. And so you would kind of lead us into these kinds of big, outro, emotional things. It worked. The food ever, it was. I don't remember any details, but I just remember it like... I don't remember details either, but I remember the kind of suggestions that you would make to us and how they would change the songs. Yeah. And that was one of them out how the endings would be this grand thing. Instead of just singing the chorus all over again, like what's singing?

1:34:00Giving a reason to have another chorus at the end of the day. Yes, singing in a more dramatic and bigger and... Finale. Yes. Yes. Any other developments during that period of the band between albums two and three? I think as a writer, I was starting to get into more, not necessarily starting pits, but trying to be heavy in different ways. I thought.

1:34:30So for me as a writer, I think I was transitioning into that. And I also felt like as we were going along, Serge wanted to sing more. And you pushed him more into that direction. He got to be a really good singer. Yes, I remember on the first album, it was hard for him to sing the songs. And I remember live seeing the band in those days, his performance was great, but his singing wasn't yet great. But by being on the road so much, he turned into a great singer. And great performer. Absolutely. But the voice like really took on this like operatic quality that wasn't really there in the beginning.

1:35:08In the beginning, it was more quirky and yelling. Yes. And growling. Yeah. Couldn't have predicted it in advance. I wouldn't know that it was going to happen. Yeah. So I was aware of that. And he never told me like, you know, I don't want to grow or anything. But I could feel like he was going more into singing than screaming. And he wasn't as aggro and angry. The third album was the thing is I would write so many songs for all these albums that we ended up having either a third album or the double album. If I didn't bring in that many songs, we were probably only at three records. Because we only had three recording sessions.

1:35:56First toxicity and mesmerizing. So third album was steel this album. So that was stuff that we didn't put on toxicity that we thought was still good. But then remember somebody had leaked it. Oh, yeah. And that's why we called it steel this album. What's a good song representative of this? Well, there's so much stuff here. I mean, I wouldn't say it's represented with the album, but this song right here.

1:36:29Who was doing, I don't know, like the power bands around us and to... We're giving this. I mean, this doesn't show you what the album is, but this tune... I have a problem that I cannot explain. I have no reason why it should have been. It's not heavy metal. It never gets heavy at all. So, like I said, trying to be heavy in different ways. I know how I feel when I'm around you. I don't know how I feel whenever I'm around you.

1:37:17Melo -chong. I think that's important. Beautiful permanent.

1:37:30Now, this is a song that I wrote and could have sang myself. But I was still in a place where I was like... Didn't want to go full on yet.

1:37:48And Sarah's changed the lyrics to this song from what I originally had. But once again, if I'm not married to it... It's not changing or hurting the song. No. And if the person who's singing in the song isn't connected to the words, it won't be good. Absolutely.

1:38:16I forgot that I had a solo part in this song. I haven't listened to this for years. I forgot that that was there. Beautiful. The phrase is very Middle East and... Greek. Very Greek like... Yeah. Bizzuki like... Yeah.

1:38:45But you know, there was more heavier stuff on this... Like a song like Intervision. I want to feel... Put a bit on toxicity. You just didn't want to make toxicity that long. Yeah. Let's listen to any of these... Second song.

1:39:05Very Middle Eastern as well. This riff.

1:39:13Mmm...

1:39:23Let's see. We're moving into directions that are not... ...you know what I mean? We're going into different places now. More melodic and more experimental.

1:39:47Yeah, I like this song a lot.

1:39:53Another one is... There's a highway song that's on this album. That's another good one. Mr.

1:40:04Jack.

1:40:30That's Brad.

1:40:46That's Brad.

1:41:16I like this song a lot. Intervision in a vision.

1:41:35They come quick. That's really a little bit highway song.

1:42:06I like this song a lot.

1:42:34I like this song a lot. I forgot to...

1:43:00Another song like I said in a more emotional heavy direction. Although the chugging is there, the heavy is there. But still more like Dancy chugging. It's not medley. Yeah. More bouncy, dancing. I remember when I wrote this song, I had... ...depesh mode in mind. Depesh mode? Yeah. It was like... I don't know that. Become the guitar and show me the... Well, I mean... Show me the depesh mode version. Like, I just in my head, I was thinking like if the guy from depesh mode was singing, you were like... I don't know. It might not be depesh mode to everyone else, but in my head, that kind of... You visualized it.

1:43:52That's kind of what brought the... ...the kind of dark... ...if you had like synth a size... I don't know. I could hear... I could hear it. Maybe I don't know if you can, but I can hear it. I can. Yeah, I'll think of... ...the way he's sitting down on his thing like the guy from depesh mode, but... ...just these chords kind of took me there. And then there's this part where it goes...

1:44:35...that part came from... ...remember there used to be like freestyle music, dance, music like... ...timi -t and... Yeah. ...in my head there was a lot of synth going on... ...on that song, but there was no... ...synth at all in the recording, but when I was writing it... ...it wrote it you were envisioning synths. Yes. Cool. The groovy part, the dancey part... ...is that the same? It's just the same chords that... ...changes the way I play it. I see.

1:45:28You know, if you had like a nine on that... ...kick like that going like that... ...in my head that's what was happening when I wrote that... ...but then you play it with a rock band, you play it with a guitar... But it's cool because envisioning those sounds... ...inspired you to write a different song than you would write... ...if you were writing a song for a metal band. So it becomes new music, you know? Different inspirations, different colors. Yeah. You know? And then did you guys tour this album? No. You just came out? No. Yeah, we just... ...put it out and... ...like I said, we put it out because...

1:46:08...someone leaked. Yeah. Those songs and they put out versions that we didn't necessarily like... ...so we went to your place, remembering we kind of redid some of them... ...rearranged some of them. Yeah. ...did new vocals on some of them. We recorded all the songs. For toxicity, we recorded them all. And then kind of narrowed down the ones that were gonna be on the album... ...or maybe the ones that were most likely gonna be on the album... ...still probably more than... ...we're actually on the album. Yeah. And then we would refine those. So the songs from Steelers' album weren't... ...completed, certainly not to the mixed stage.

1:46:47No. ...but they were tracked. They were born during that time. Yeah, because they hadn't done all the overdubs or probably all the singing. Or even like melatrons and different... ...the overdubs. Then next is mesmerizing hypnotize. Any memories of that kind in the band? Well, I had just moved into a new house... ...because toxicity was... ...I still live there, actually. I've been living there for 23 years. That's where I did a lot of... ...you know, I wrote a lot of that stuff in the living room. But it was, you know, an interesting time... ...because just the dynamic in the band had changed.

1:47:34Do you think we all had sex? Or something else. I don't know. Yeah, maybe success had something to do with it. Well, Sarah's heart wasn't into it the same way. Why do you think that was? I think the way we picked system songs to be on the record is everyone... ...we had a list of songs. It was very democratic, to be honest with you. Absolutely. The best songs won, always. Yeah, well, I can't tell you which one to pick. I can't tell John which one to pick. But it just so happens that a lot of the ones that were picked were songs that I brought in. And nothing was ever done in... Like, no one's trying to hurt anybody.

1:48:21It was just... ...we were in my head, I don't care who wrote what song. I just wanted the best songs and the songs that worked together and made that album. I just wanted the best for the band, best for the album. And we were just in a weird place where we had a member that was just kind of not... ...along with it the same way that he was before. I don't want to say the wrong thing because you say something and then all of a sudden it becomes this... ...Daren said this. You know what I mean? But trying to be really careful with my words. But I felt pressure because I was like... It's just very tough time to explain for me.

1:49:13Tell me about what you remembered about the recording. That was fine. We were at your house on Laurel Canyon House. Yeah. We had blood sugar sex band drink. Yeah, yeah. I remember you had an idea to fill the room that was going to have your guitar amp and the acoustic guitar work done. We put a wall of acoustic guitars. A wall of acoustic guitars. Yeah, I just was experimenting because... What was the thought? Well, I would go to the guitar center and when I play an amp through in their vintage room, everything sounded so good in there. And I saw this... They had this wall of acoustic guitars and I would be thinking...

1:49:58There's got to be something about the sound going through those guitars. Like a resonance or something. Some kind of resonance. And that's what I got. Kind of like this kind of twangy resonance out of my guitar. So I wanted to try that with the guitars. It was a really cool idea. I never had experimented with this thing. It was a very subtle thing that happened with the guitars. But it gave me a little bit more twang, a little bit more cut out of the guitars. It was a cool idea. Thanks. Yeah, I was just trying to experiment with stuff based on that. Anything in terms of the writing process that was different or next level?

1:50:37Well, you were really pushing us to not repeat ourselves. I remember during Mesmerize and Hypnotize. When we showed you something that sounded like something that would belong on toxicity, you would look at us and say, we did that already. So I was trying to take my writing to a place where we were just trying new things, not even necessarily metal. You had songs like Violent Pornography, Radio Video, that were very much system songs, sounds like system, but something the system never did before. And that's why those two records, Mesmerize and Hypnotize, sound a bit different than the others, because it was really you pushing us to go to other places and not be afraid to go to other places.

1:51:33Not be limited. Not pass. Yeah, not be limited by whatever we did before. You know, song like B -Y -O -B, like I showed you earlier when from like metal to this fucking P -Funk chorus, back to metal, into punk rock, like they're very experimental songs that still fit in the world of system of a down, but they're just done in kind of a different way. Should we listen to Radio Video? Yeah. Is that a good one? I love playing this song live, too. This song always comes off live, and it's just, it's dancing, it's quirky, it's happy.

1:52:19I can't compare it to any other song I have ever written, or I can't compare to anyone else's song either.

1:52:33Hey man, look at me rocking out, I'm on the radio. Hey man, look at me rocking out, I'm on the radio. Hey man, look at me rocking out, I'm on the radio. Hey man, look at me rocking out, I'm on the radio. We're dead in these arms, they take me away from the strangest place I've seen. Not metal at all. I think I was also going into less of a metal and more into a rock direction with the band, and even with scars, scars even went even farther into a rock. And so, as my writing has gone along, I've gone more into a rock direction with my writing through the years.

1:53:44They were my friends, my neighbors growing up in Hollywood, they lived across from me, random. It was almost like, look, can you see me now? I'm in this fucking band, look where I don't even know where they are, but they were just somebody I remember from my childhood. And it's almost like if they could only see me now, I'm on the radio, I'm on the video.

1:54:15Gotta have that.

1:54:38The only reggae groove in the history of System of the Dower. I'd have to, is it? I'd have to, itself.

1:54:53Memorable solo, simple, memorable melodic. That's the way I like to solo if I'm gonna solo as a guitar player.

1:55:06Another thing about it gets faster and faster, but that's another thing we used to, like, with sugar, it gets faster and faster. So, tempo, fucking with tempo.

1:55:26It could also be something in folk music, where the songs would kind of build, and people would dance and spend. Yes.

1:55:49Yes. But, once again, you were pushing us to go into different places, and I was trying to do that without losing our identity. Yeah, and it still sounds like, don't sound like anybody but system. And I had a guy who really didn't really want to be there, to be honest with you. So, there was a lot of shit going on. I can't say he didn't want to be there, but his heart wasn't into it the same way. You know? So, we recorded Mesmerizing, Hittin' the Ties at the same time. How did we release them? Same time or...? No, they were, I don't even know if we want, the double album was planned or anything at first, but they were released months apart.

1:56:37And then the Soldier Side intro, that's one thing I love about this record, or those two records, is where it starts with the Soldier Side intro into B -Y -O -B, and then the second record ends with the Soldier Side completely. And it bookends, and that wasn't something that was really planned. That kind of came when it was like, oh, we're going to do a double album. And it kind of came to me where it was like, that'd be a really cool way to bring them both together. Yeah, but still in the Soldier Side.

1:57:15My uncle is in this song a lot, because he was a soldier in Iraq. I see. And so when I wrote this song, he was still in Iraq, and the second time American bombed them. A lot of these stuff, I wrote around that time, B -Y -O -B.

1:58:29And so we went from the first record to this. It's a long way to go. Wild evolution. In three recording sessions, really.

1:59:03And there's some left. All young men must go. He's come so far to find the truth. He's never going home.

1:59:24Really cinematic. It's like watching the movies.

1:59:38I just think of the time when along the songwriter in me came out. More in these records than writing metal songs, but just like just more like singer -songwriter kind of song.

2:00:17And he's come so far to find the truth. I remember when I wrote Lost in Hollywood, and I brought in the song. And you told me it's not finished. And I'm like, what does he mean? It's not finished. It was just the beginning. But just you saying that, and I still tell the story is, you just had to say that to me. And then I went home that night, and I wrote the whole second part of the song, which made it whole, became more epic. And you just made that one suggestion of saying it just sounds like it's not finished yet. And I really appreciated that, though, man. You would pull things out that I didn't know were there.

2:01:25Yeah. We all were working together to make the best thing it could possibly be, whatever that was through loving it. And honestly talking about it, whatever came up. Yeah. I still seem a little bit bad.

2:01:50There's like heavier stuff on this record, but for me, these songs are the ones that I like the most, because it was going into different places. If I'm sad about anything, about not making more records with system, it's that we never got the chance to evolve even more. To see what would be there. To go farther. Yeah. You'll crazy. Those vicious streets are filled with stress. You should have never gone to Hollywood. They find you two -time -you. Say you're the best they've ever seen. You should have never trusted Hollywood. The harmony was so cool. The notes. So I only had this when I first brought it in.

2:03:01I wrote you and told you, you were the biggest fish out here. You should have never gone to Hollywood. They take you and make you. They look at you with disgusting waves. You should have never trusted Hollywood. This is the part that I went home and wrote. After you told me it wasn't finished. You were the best.

2:03:51I was standing on the wall. Feeling tested told you my good smoking bags. On sand, top, on the cover of my eyes. This is my perpage. This is my rage. All you bitches put your hands in the air. I wave them back, you get the count.

2:04:22All you bitches put your hands in the air. All you bitches put your hands in the air. It gives me this vibe of all the young dudes. It has this open, yeah.

2:04:40It's dynamic.

2:04:45To me, this is heavy. It was very heavy in emotion.

2:04:53As the band went along, I think we would have gone more into this place. Maybe not as metal. Chili peppers started with the funk. But as they went along, they changed into a different direction.

2:05:15I think we were capable of doing that. I'm not sure a lot of bands are capable of letting you. You already made the transition from metal, to experimental music, and did you use system of a down? Yes. That's the hardest part. And within the realm of experimental music, there's a lot of places to go. Yes.

2:05:48Really, I'm done. A beautiful part.

2:06:02It's just a song about when I was a kid, I ride my bike. You'd see people sitting at the bus stop, or there was a lot of prostitution where I grew up. Right in front of my apartment, there was a motel. And it was a whole prostitution going on. And all those pictures are in my head when I sang this song, or when I wrote this song, was just all the people that I grew up seeing, didn't know them, but just grew up seeing in the streets of Hollywood that either came here with a dream, or you know, but it was a lot of my childhood is in this song. And I was born in Hollywood, you know, so like, he comes out to see these sad stories.

2:06:57Just some sad, some not sad, I don't know, but just how did that person end up in this place? You know, I would be riding my bike around the block, and how do these people end up here? You know, two interesting stats that I never made the connection before. So I never thought of it as five albums, even though it is five albums, and you mentioned the doors, the doors only made five albums. Yeah. And system only made five albums. And then the other one is, is systems entire recording career was over seven years, and the Beatles entire recording career was only seven years. They made 13 albums in the seven years, but it's still seven years.

2:07:44It's just interesting. Yeah, I mean, look, I'm proud of the records. Like I said, I don't live with any regret or anything like that, but it would have been nice to see where the band would have evolved if we kept putting music out. If we put out an album now, it's just so far away from when we did this. It doesn't continue the story. Yeah, it feels like starting a new story, really. Yeah. So, and I don't know, like there was a time that that might have been something I wanted. Yeah. I'm not sure how much I want that. I understood. Any more. I don't, I'm sure people won't be too happy to hear that for me, but.

2:08:27Yeah, I'm not at the same place where I was. I understood. Maybe 10 years ago. Yeah, but then again, maybe that's the place to be that allows it to happen. You can't predict where you're going to be and how you're going to feel. Impossible. But yeah, man, I mean, I think we, for a short period of time that we had in a few recording sessions, we did evolve quite a bit. Quite a bit. Quite a bit. So. A lot of growth and a lot of material in a short period of time, loads of songs. Yeah. Yeah. And we actually had even more leftover from those sessions. Maybe someday. If that did ever happen, I might want to go back and look at them again and maybe.

2:09:17Yeah, but the same thing happened with the still the sour. Yeah, it would be that kind of thing finishing them essentially. Yeah, there's a reason why they weren't on. Yeah. Correct. They, they just weren't as good. Yeah. In some way, they had good parts, but maybe not good completely. You know, so you know, you never know. How would you say your relationship to music has changed over the course of your life? Hmm.

2:09:46I was writing albums at this time. Now, I still, I really stuff with scars, but scars has two records out. And I have a new one coming next year. But I write kind of at my pace now. And I write for me. And then I choose to put it out when I want to put it out. There's no like, there isn't as much pressure. Yeah. But you still continue writing. Oh, it's just what you do. No, I have tons of songs that nobody's ever heard. And you continue adding to that list? Yeah. Yeah. I do have quite a bit of material that no one's heard. What some will work with systems, some will work with scars. But at this point, they're probably all going to end up going to scars at some point.

2:10:39I mean, there was a time where I held on to them. Yeah. Because I was like, okay, we might get back into, we might need these songs. And I've just kind of held on to songs through the years. Because thinking maybe, and when that time comes, we're going to need these songs. And so, you know, I've just kind of held on to music and enjoyed it myself. And like I said, I would be doing it if there wasn't a fan base. Or, you know, there'd be something missing in my life. Yeah. I wasn't still writing and playing. What's your experience of playing live now? With system or scars? Both. It's a totally different experience.

2:11:25With system, we're playing, I know what to expect. The band is big. You just said, you know, you came to our show. There were 60 ,000 people there. Everybody's singing along. Everyone's singing along. But, man, I just played two shows with scars a couple of weeks ago. One at Aftershock and one at the, used to be Bank of California. I mean, there was people singing scar songs and there for scars. And I was kind of like, I expected a lot less. And it seems like a lot of people, I don't promote the band very much. I don't put the band out too much. But there are people there that really enjoy those records and enjoy my writing.

2:12:08And show up for those gigs. But it's different because there's a different vibe because like you're working for it again. Yeah. It seems like you work for it with system. But when the people are there to see you and adore you and all the... I was singing along with songs. Saying a lot of the work is done. Yeah, you know what to expect. With scars, I never know what's going to come in front of me. And so there's like this. It's a little bit more stressful for me because I don't know what to expect. There's going to be a thousand people there, two thousand people there. I mean, or they're going to be like 200 people there.

2:12:47I don't know, you know. But these last shows, and we're really great with scars. And I'm excited to put out this new record that I've actually been holding on to this record for a couple of years. So... It's a good sign that you can write songs, like even talking about system songs. You would talk about songs from different albums that might have been written in your parents' house. There's a timeless feeling about your songs where they don't sound like they're now or that they get old. That they're just sort of good songs. And good songs seem to always be good songs. I think some people are like, Hey, when I hear you play the guitar, I know it's you.

2:13:34And I'm like, I don't think it's so much the guitar. It's just the way I arrange songs, the way I write songs is, I think, if I had a signature to what I did, it's the song. It's the song. It's the song. It's not necessarily the instrument that I'm playing. It's how I organize and how I compose and put things together that work in a way that it ends up sounding like one of my pieces. Because you put together pieces that don't obviously go together, but they flow very naturally in your songs. Yeah. And I have a really broad taste in music. There's so many different kinds of genres, so many different kinds of music that I love.

2:14:15And you know, you don't feel one way all the time either. So I feel very fortunate to be an artist that I love death metal, but I couldn't just play in a death metal band. Yeah. I love it. I would get old. I mean, it would be limiting. Yeah. So I've kind of built myself in a way where fans aren't necessarily surprised when I do something different. And I feel like I would do it regardless, whether I can get away with it or not. It's just it's honest to me. You know, it's cool to be able to have that room and not be just, you know, I have to use these heavy riffs and this vocal style all the time.

2:15:03Like I feel very free as a songwriter to be able to kind of do what I want. And it kind of comes out sounding like me, whether it's a song like Lonely Day or a song like B -Y -O -B or you know, there's some. Look, I know scars isn't as big a system, but some of my songs that I'm really proud of, I wrote their song called In the Same Babylon that are scar songs that guns are loaded. There's some songs that I'm very, very proud of in the scars catalog as well, you know. And so I think I'm fortunate to have that outlet as well too because some people have that one band. I do have another band that seems like people care about and come to see.

2:15:51So I feel very fortunate with that.

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