Kelly Wearstler

13:04Rick Rubin:Where are your favorite places to shop?

13:07Kelly Wearstler:You know, all over. I travel for work and I travel with my family and I'm always seeking out like the places to go, whether it's a thrift store. And I still love going into like the stinky thrift store and digging through just everything to find. Like I collect vintage books. I love vinyl. I love, you know, vintage clothing and it's just all over the place. So really seeking out those types of stores. And then I love the contemporary. So going to galleries and then just over the years, I have great relationships with like many dealers around the world and constantly in communication with them and just have a great, you know, kind of roster of amazing people who have the same kind of curiosity and shopping problem that I have.

14:00Rick Rubin:Do you use First Dibs?

14:02Kelly Wearstler:Yeah, First Dibs is a good source, but just getting through, there's like a lot of, a lot of things on First Dibs. And so I really now feel, you know, I have the pleasure of working with a lot of people that I really like their taste level and I like what they find and what they curate. And so I really focus on, you know, that group of people. And there's many of those. And I also love auctions. I love going to auctions and it's like now we're actually getting into auction season, which is so fun. And you find things that you weren't looking for. And like, that's the best, like that discovery is so exciting.

14:42Kelly Wearstler:and I found these really cool vintage art deco guitars. There's eight of them and they're made with a plastic. The color theory is amazing. And so like, I wasn't looking for those, but I was so like, just the energy and the excitement when I saw those, like knew how to have those. And those would be great for Calneva.

15:01Rick Rubin:Are there any things you've ever bought or collected that you could not imagine parting with?

15:09Kelly Wearstler:Yes, for sure.

15:10Rick Rubin:Like what?

15:11Kelly Wearstler:Like, I have these pair of chairs that are, they're called Dolores Eckhart chairs. They were made in the 80s, and they're really, really difficult to find. And the chairs, like, I love chairs. I love things that are functional, but also very sculptural.

15:25Rick Rubin:Describe what those chairs look like.

15:27Kelly Wearstler:They're faceted, and they have a low back, and the exterior shell is wood.

15:32Rick Rubin:Would you say they look deco or no?

15:34Kelly Wearstler:No, they look kind of like punk 80s. and they're black and they have like this exterior wood shell and they're very beveled and they have two back legs that are open and so the silhouette is like really quite beautiful and then the interior is leather black leather and they're all original and they're all original like i like finding things that are in the original condition like when we find things that are that are vintage and have like a really nice patina on them we just really very gently you know restore them because we like that patina and things that have history and that feel like they've been around the block.

16:10Rick Rubin:If there's a classic item that's rare and for whatever reason you can't find one, would you make one to use if it was the right thing for the project?

16:20Kelly Wearstler:No, because there's something about something that has history that you just cannot, like, reproduce.

16:28Rick Rubin:What do you think it is?

16:30Kelly Wearstler:It's the patina. Even if it's slight, just like on the leg or, you know, you can tell like it's had like another life. It's had a story and you have friends like that. You know, it's the same thing with furniture and in different things that we curate, you know, work of art. It's been in like so many rooms. It's heard so many conversations. You know, you feel the energy. You really do.

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19:13Rick Rubin:How is vintage clothing related to your work?

19:16Kelly Wearstler:Vintage clothing I absolutely love and I collect. And I use it so much for inspiration and detailing, like even as simple as like a leather jacket and how it's sewn and assembled and the stitching. And I'll use that on something that's upholstered. And with my team at the studio, like when we're designing something, I'm like, don't look at anything that represents that category. Like if you're going to design a chair, look at architecture. Or if you're going to design, you know, a drinking glass, perhaps look at earrings. Like that's how you're going to find something and create something new is when you discover inspiration in an odd place.

20:06Rick Rubin:I love that idea.

20:07Kelly Wearstler:And in my studio, when we're starting projects, like I do not want to see any contemporary interiors or architecture. Like you have to know history to be a good designer. You really do. I mean, how can you reinvent something that is now and happening now? And even when we design a space and why I love like many of our spaces like truly feel timeless because it's filled with soulful material. and it's also filled with vintage and antique and found objects and design. There's contemporary pieces that are there for sure because I love that tension, but you really can't tell when the house was designed.

20:51Kelly Wearstler:And that's like really important to me. I want it to be timeless.

20:54Rick Rubin:Yeah. I read that you got to work with Milton Glaser.

20:58Kelly Wearstler:Yes.

20:59Rick Rubin:Tell me about that.

21:00Kelly Wearstler:Oh, yeah. So I went to college from Myrtle Beach. I went to school in Boston. And I was there for four years. And then I decided that I was going to go to New York for maybe a year or two. And I got an apprenticeship with Milton Glaser. And he's like iconic. How did that happen? I sent him a note.

21:20Rick Rubin:Wow.

21:21Kelly Wearstler:Yeah, I sent him a note. What did the note say? That I loved his work. I think I put together, like, I was always into putting together these, like, really kind of, like, elaborate little books that kind of told a story. I put together and I would always make the envelope like I was always making things like things that just felt special and like a little piece of art. And I sent him a note and I got a call back and they wanted to meet. So I remember taking the train, went to New York and and I got the job for it was more of like an apprenticeship for a year. And it was amazing because, and what I really loved about him is he was doing some interiors, but he was also this iconic graphic designer.

22:07And he created the I Love New York symbol, this iconic.

22:12Kelly Wearstler:And he obviously worked in the music business and he just did so many incredible things. And he was like playful and just his use of typography and his use of color. So I worked with him and it was in a townhouse. and there were four floors and he was always so fluid. He was like, you know, in all the different floors. Did he live there as well or no? No, he didn't live there.

22:35Rick Rubin:So it was just a four-floor office.

22:37Kelly Wearstler:Yeah, it was just his office.

22:37Rick Rubin:How many employees at that time would you say?

22:40Kelly Wearstler:I would say there was probably 20 and it crossed over, you know, design. I mean, he was really like, you know, a multidisciplinary designer. And I remember his work. He did a restaurant in Manhattan that had all these, like, figural parts. It was like a nose and an eye. And his, like, use of sculpture. And it was just, like, you know, quite playful. And he was drawn to that. So I worked with them for a year, and it was amazing. And I then decided, like, I wanted to—I mean, New York's a hard city when you have no money. And, like, you know, I wasn't making that much money when I was working for Milton.

23:18Kelly Wearstler:I was still, I was waiting tables still on the side so I could afford to pay my rent with my two other roommates. And it was a great time, but I just wanted to be close to the ocean and be, you know, in warm weather. But it was a really, it was a great time.

23:34Rick Rubin:Can you remember a piece of wisdom Milton or anyone else imparted on you that changed how you saw the world? I would say it came from my mom.

23:47Kelly Wearstler:And it was really like early on, she was just like, nobody will take care of you other than yourself. You have to be happy on your own. You have to take care of yourself. Obviously, you know, find love, but you have to own yourself. and she was always a big believer in like taking risks. She grew up in Ohio, you know, and just decided like, of course she grew up with all her friends. They stayed there and she and my dad like just moved to Myrtle Beach. Just some like interesting move at that time. And so that was something that she was always, you know, telling my sister and I and it really stuck.

24:32Rick Rubin:Did they say why they chose to move to Myrtle Beach?

24:35Kelly Wearstler:And like the weather, they would go and visit there, and then they just loved it. I mean, you know, it's like different. It's a very different place to grow up, and it was just alive to them. And they just felt free there, and it was, you know, a beautiful place.

24:51Rick Rubin:Tell me about your parents' relationship.

24:54Kelly Wearstler:They got married when they were 18, no, 17.

24:57Rick Rubin:Wow.

24:58Kelly Wearstler:Really young, and they were like high school sweethearts. and they were together for about five years because when they moved to Myrtle Beach, it kind of like started to fizzle out. And it was like a hard time like for my sister and I because they ended up getting a divorce and like we're in a new place. And then my dad kind of like, just kind of like stepped out of like the family and it was like really a hard time and like so hurtful, you know, and I think about why I do what I do. And like, I always like, I'm a people pleaser and I want to make people happy and creating like spaces and places for people to come to, like because great design makes you want to stay.

25:52Rick Rubin:Yeah. Has your personal taste changed over the course of your life?

25:56Kelly Wearstler:Yes. Oh my God. My taste is a hundred percent changed. Like just growing up in South Carolina, my mom was always taking us to like the vintage store. We would go to North Carolina. We'd go to New York City together. And we were always just auctions, flea markets, thrift stores, constantly looking for interesting things. And she had this little antique shop. So she was always looking to curate items from there. So my sister and I were always in tow. So I was at that point in my life, like from a very young age, like educating my eye. And just because I'm so curious, like I'm just opening up books and magazines and like discovered I have this love for graphic design, which is what I went to school for before I was studying architecture.

26:46So going to all these places with my mom and really just discovering things, picking up

26:54Kelly Wearstler:candlesticks and opening up books and, you know, buying scarves and fashion and just seeing everything in one place and always being surprised. So really knowing, like from growing up in Myrtle Beach is knowing that you have to kind of always seek out the beauty and things that are interesting.

27:14Rick Rubin:Do you still like the things that you might have liked back then or no?

27:18Kelly Wearstler:I still love things that are, that have like soul.

27:23Rick Rubin:Yeah. If you look at my early work and sometimes I'm like, oh my God, like what was I thinking?

27:30Kelly Wearstler:Like I would never use that color again. Like, I don't know. It just like feels like maybe it wasn't, wouldn't be as bright. So like, I think obviously over time your taste level gets better, but then like I was a risk taker. I'm still a risk taker, but I have like your taste becomes more refined and you're exposed to more things and you're educating your eye and you're learning from your clients. I'm learning from all these incredible creatives that I work with. And still, I love chairs. I love art and I love sculpture. So that hasn't changed. That all still is like so important and true to what I do.

28:08Rick Rubin:Is it possible that any of those things that you look back and think that wasn't very good was actually very good, but it was just a different time?

28:16Kelly Wearstler:Yeah. So like there, that's, it's so true. Like I would have done things again differently. And I was like, that was actually a bold move when I did that. What I, and I've asked myself, would I do that again? And I would do it again, but it would be in a different situation. And like so many things like early in your career is like based on budget and it's based on having the limitations and we still get them now on all our projects like there are limitations that even pushes up to to be more creative but there are things that I go back and look at past work and I was like that was like a bold move and you know and I'm a shy person like I'm really shy and people think, oh, you're like quiet and your work is so much more, you know, makes a statement.

29:07Rick Rubin:Yeah. Tell me about your relationship to colors.

29:11Kelly Wearstler:Color, oh my God, color is so emotional. And I love color and white is a color. Black is a color. And I like everything, you know, in between. My home now is all white. All the walls are white. And I'm actually redoing a room now that I'm going to experiment with color. And we've actually lived in the house that we live in now for quite some time. And it was many different rooms. There were many different colors. And that's when I went into my kind of pared down mode. I was like maximalist there. And then I just started removing things. And I was like, God, it feels so good. There's like space.

29:52Kelly Wearstler:Things can breathe. but now I feel like I want like a little color but it's going to be muted but color is really personal to people and we take our time you know when we present color to clients you know whether it is in a textile or whether it's on a wall or it's on a floor you know we really like to experiment and do interesting things with color it's like so important.

30:20Rick Rubin:Describe your house.

30:21Kelly Wearstler:The house I live in is a 1926 Georgian style home designed by James Delina. And it is a home that has a lot of history, actually a lot of Hollywood history. And it's a home that I never thought I would be living in. it has so much spirit and soul like you just you can feel it it just feels so good and I remember the first time that we went to see the house and we actually lived up the street in another home a very different home it was a 1956 Hal Levitt and it was like 10 houses up from from this house And I remember my husband, I just had Oliver and Elliot. I just, we just renovated this house.

31:13Kelly Wearstler:And he was like, I found another house. And I was just like, no way. And he was like, let's just go look at it. And of course, you know, we drove up in the landscaping. There's like, there's like beautiful trees everywhere. And it's just, you know, has this amazing energy. And that's really important to me. The house has, you know, really kind of delicate architecture and it's intimate. like the scale is very intimate and we use every room in the house which is just great and nothing's precious we have friends and kids over it's a very active busy house I have team from my studio come over and it's very energetic and it's always changing like there's always something changing art furniture getting moved in and it's like my laboratory is your house the only place that you've

32:01Rick Rubin:done and then redone? Or are there other places that you've done and then sometime years later gone back and changed them?

32:09Kelly Wearstler:Well, we lost our house in the fire. So this is something that we built our family home and we were there for, we had this house for 16 years. And so we're doing it again and we're doing it again, but it's going to be different.

32:26Rick Rubin:So the 16 year ago house burned. Yes. And we built that home and there are many beautiful things to the home.

32:36Kelly Wearstler:And my family wants it to be exactly how it was because it was so meaningful to them. And like just all the memories and being there and the smells and just the movement around the house. And they want it to be exactly the same, but you never will. Like at the entrance of our home, when you walked in, there was this huge plaster cornucopia that was about eight feet. And it just kind of sat on the floor like a shell because I wanted everything just to kind of feel like there were things like I found on the beach. It was all very tactile and earthy. But it was in this very minimal space. It was an entrance that was all skinned in timber.

33:18Kelly Wearstler:And then you just had this big shell. Like, I'm never going to find that again. But the footprint is the same. We also had in the center of the house, it was like a two-story volume that was open. So the energy of upstairs and downstairs were very fluid. And I planted a huge tree in there. So we're going to do that again. So there'll be some moves that are similar, but it's going to be very different. The process will be the same. We're already like, you know, curating things together as a family and we're living a little differently. so there'll be some new programming and things that we want to enjoy in a different way.

33:55Kelly Wearstler:But the dialogue, though, I actually drove by on the way here, and there we had this incredible rock, like two rocks that are in the front of our house, was like the sculpture. So that is going to be the same, and that energy and that dialogue with the house, and this rock is going to bring back the memories.

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35:54Rick Rubin:Can you think of the most shocking thing you ever suggested to a client?

36:00Kelly Wearstler:Yes. And I ended up having to fix it after. What was it? It was for this woman, her house, she lived in the Hollywood Hills. And this is probably like into my year three. And when I just started and have my business in LA, which happened unexpectedly. But I was working on her house and I was like, let's do these stripes that are like all over the house. But they changed in the different rooms because she wanted color and she wanted energy and something was dynamic and it was a disaster. her. It was so, and she was out of town when it happened. And then I ended up, I honestly like ended up painting it back myself one color.

36:41Kelly Wearstler:Wow. Because she had a budget, you know, I want to make her home like so amazing. Yeah. You know, I just took a big risk and it did not pan out.

36:50Rick Rubin:Did she get to see it or she never got to see it?

36:52Kelly Wearstler:No, I called her and I was like, it just doesn't look good. Like we're going to go back. She was like, okay. Like she was like really cool, but the project turned out amazing.

37:00Rick Rubin:Great.

37:01Kelly Wearstler:So you learned kind of, you know, along the way, and I was going to have to pay for it myself or do it myself. And I ended up just doing it myself.

37:10Rick Rubin:Did that make you gun shy about trying outrageous things?

37:15Kelly Wearstler:Yes, it made me, yes, it made me gun shy. But I still like maybe still taking risks, but maybe not doing it in the entire house. Like that was where it was just like too bold of a move.

37:29Rick Rubin:Any rules that are unbreakable? For example, does a living room always have a couch?

37:36Kelly Wearstler:No. I think that, no, it doesn't have to. And I think it's what somebody does in the space. It doesn't have to have a sofa. And it could be just chairs. It could just be benches. You know, it all really comes down to its purpose.

37:54Rick Rubin:Are clients good at explaining what they do in the spaces or no?

37:58Kelly Wearstler:They are. I mean, there's like what people expect to do in the space. And we try and really get, you know, ask the right questions to get information out of like, what do you, you know, do you like to lay down? Do you like to sit up? Do you like to, you know, have different tables that you can move around? Do you want things that are more flexible? Do you want to be able to, you know, have, you know, great lighting? Like lighting is so important on projects and lighting. We want everyone to look great. All our clients look great. And so lighting is like so important.

38:34Rick Rubin:Are you ever inspired by interiors you see in old movies?

38:39Kelly Wearstler:Always. I love seeing things in old movies and love the, you know, 20s, 30s, 40s. I mean, that's the beauty of Los Angeles. It's like this free spirit of like all this amazing architecture that is just everywhere.

38:54Rick Rubin:When you walk into a space for the first time, do you always have a vision of what it can be? Or does it take a while to understand the possibilities?

39:01Kelly Wearstler:It takes a while. And I'm all about like keeping it flexible. And you're going to discover things along the way. And we do. We have the tools now to create these great renderings and really show clients like what the possibilities are. but you know at the end of the day someone a client's going to say you know I I really want this room I actually want to do something else in this space and so I like keeping it you know very flexible and specific and just again having the communication with the client to envision on you know what what the space could be.

39:40Rick Rubin:Would you build the same thing in Lake Tahoe as in Los Angeles as in New York?

39:47Kelly Wearstler:No. Like everything is site specific. And I love the diversity of architecture. I love the, obviously the clients bring so much to the table. The team at my studio is a different assembly of team. Like the outcome is very different. Like it's interesting to see what different team members bring to a project. And it's the same thing, you know, with, with the art architect and, you know, the art advisor could be helping the clients curate incredible selection of art. And that's also such a big part of what the outcome will be. So every project we do is different. Like I don't have a good playbook.

40:31Kelly Wearstler:It's not like, oh, we're going to do this here. I like to push myself. I like to push my team and do something different every time.

40:39Rick Rubin:If you go back to something you worked on a while ago and you come back to visit it, does it feel like that's how I left it when I left it or no?

40:48Kelly Wearstler:No, it feels like things have changed in terms of like furniture, maybe we'll be in like a different place because people have parties and there's a lot of different things happening. So yeah, overall, it definitely feels the same. It has the same smell. It has the same vibe. you know maybe the books that I curated early on are different yeah you're relying on people that are working at the hotel at that moment that maybe have gone and gotten books for the library so I always want to keep it tight like it's so important to me and we work really hard to do that what was your first professional project my first professional project was the Avalon Hotel and that's a hotel in Beverly Hills that is an iconic 1950s hotel.

41:41Kelly Wearstler:It was actually built as an apartment hotel. Marilyn Monroe actually lived there as a young actress and it changed hands over the years and it was bought by a group of developers and my husband was one of the owners and I had been working with him. He's in real estate. And I worked with him maybe for two years on these historic apartment buildings they were buying. And we were renovating them and giving them new love and working on the common areas. And so when he got this hotel, I'm like, I really want to do this project. And he had investors and the investors were like, well, she hasn't done a hotel because it really is a different beast.

42:25Kelly Wearstler:And so the investors were like, well, we'll have her do a model room. Because when you do a hotel, you have to do a model room and make sure everything is perfect and all the parties are aligned. It's functional. It looks great. And when you go to execute, it's all been studied. And they also said, oh, you also have to find an architect who's done a hotel before. So I found Koning-Eisenberg. and Koning Eisenberg had done the Mondrian with Philippe Stark on Sunset. And I found them and they were incredible and they taught me so much. Like they're so lovely. And so that was the first hotel, kind of the big project that I felt really helped propel me a little into more of like the commercial world.

43:11Kelly Wearstler:I was also doing residential and I was doing like some office. And, you know, when I came to Los Angeles, I was in Boston and New York. I went to school there. I'd only been to Los Angeles once before and like fell in love with it. And when I moved here, I got a job waiting tables, which I'd done my whole life through high school and through college. And I was like, okay, this is the last time I'm going to do this, even though I really enjoyed it. This is the last time I'm going to get a job. And I kind of got my bearings.

43:44Rick Rubin:What was the restaurant?

43:45Kelly Wearstler:It was Chaya Brasserie. And so I got a job there and I met a producer and he said, my wife and I bought this little bungalow in Venice. And they would be coming in all the time. So it became very friendly. And he said, would you help us with it? And like, we wanted to really start with just one space. And so we worked on their living room and they loved it. And then we ended up working on the dining room. and then I ended up doing the whole entire house. And it was maybe, you know, like 2 ,000 square feet. It was, you know, it was really small. It was so charming and cute. And I was getting up every morning.

44:27Kelly Wearstler:I was going to the flea market because they had a budget. And I was get like five in the morning. You have to get there very early. I have my flashlight and looking for all the treasures because I had great training for my mom and, you know, for my childhood. and furnished the house and was really being thoughtful about where to spend the money. And the house turned out great. And then I got another job from somebody seeing that home. And so I started my own business. I was going to work for an architectural or design firm when I came to Los Angeles. And it just kind of happened where I was like, OK, I now have a business.

45:07Rick Rubin:Would you go to the Rose Bowl? Is that typically?

45:09Kelly Wearstler:Yeah, I would go to Rose Bowl. I go to Pasadena City College. I would go to Long Beach was another really good one. And like every weekend, there is a flea market in different places. And then in between that, like there used to be so many cool shops in LA and they're just not here anymore. Unfortunately, just driving down the street, there would be, I always stop. I was always stopping in to all the, you know, this lighting store, this cool store that specializes in mid-century or another specializes and deco and just, you know, was loving just learning and seeing all these different shops. So I was doing the residential projects and then I was getting also some like small commercial projects.

45:51Kelly Wearstler:And I did Ben Stiller's office, which is really fun. And from there, probably after, say, the Avalon and, you know, a mix of residential and hospitality, I got a call from Bergdorf Goodman, which was like, I was like, what? I was so excited. And I actually just had a book that came out called Modern Glamour. And she was like, we're huge fans and we have a restaurant that's on, you know, the top floor and we would love, you know, to consider you to do the restaurant. And I was thinking like, well, I can't believe it because like you think they would have somebody from New York do the design. And so we did like a presentation.

46:36Kelly Wearstler:We ended up getting that project, which was like so exciting. And it still looks, I mean, that was probably, it's been 12 years and it still looks the same. Like they've done an incredible job at maintaining it. It looks perfect. It was a really big success. And then maybe like a year later, Linda and the president called and they said, you know, we would love for you to have a shop to sell some of your creations. and I was thinking like I really hadn't designed like I'm not I don't have product and I was thinking you know I'm always up for an incredible challenge and so I was thinking you know I have designed things for our projects and came back to them and like like let's do it and we created about 20 products and they were small they were more like accessories and sculpture and bowls and it crossed over all this different materialities and opened my first kind of like retail and kind of accessories objects product.

47:39Rick Rubin:And how was that?

47:40Kelly Wearstler:It was great. You know, it was a challenge. Like I had no idea what, like when, you know, they go, what is your resale or what is it? Like, it was like a full new business for me, but they were a great partner, you know, really supportive, which was amazing. And cause you need that. Like when you're making these big steps into different feel you need like a great partner that you know you can lean on how are you

48:01Rick Rubin:able to continue spinning all the different plates yeah yeah that's true I do spend a lot of plates

48:08Kelly Wearstler:you know I have I have a great team yeah I have an incredible like family that supports me and And I have a lot of stamina. And I always have my kind of workout is really important to me. And it keeps me focused. It's kind of my meditation.

48:31Rick Rubin:You do it in the morning when you wake up?

48:33Kelly Wearstler:I do it in the morning. I get up super early. I get up at 5 and I have like a few minutes to myself. And then I work out for probably like an hour and a half. And I'll do also like a sauna and things like that. And it's just my kind of active meditation. And then I've always taken my kids to school, like super involved, wake them up in the morning and, you know, spend time. They're always like in my bathroom. And then I go to the studio. I'm in my studio all day, like every day. And I love it. I really love the mentorship and the creative energy that's there. And it's really important to me to have everyone there because that's where the magic happens is being together and feeling one's energy.

49:21Kelly Wearstler:And then at one o 'clock every day, I leave and I go do another workout.

49:26Rick Rubin:What's the afternoon workout?

49:28Kelly Wearstler:After workout, afternoon, my afternoon delight is a Pilates session or I'll do a like kind of deep breathing and stretch or I'll do like a weight training. So it just depends on what day it is. And I feel so good and so revitalized after that. And I just go in back to the studio and I just have so much energy and feel refreshed. And, you know, and I really like to just be quiet. Like sometimes like I won't listen to music. I just want to like be in the moment. And it's like this cleanse for me.

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51:34Rick Rubin:How much time do you spend traveling versus being home?

51:38Kelly Wearstler:It's probably, it's more so now. Like I didn't travel a ton maybe 15 years ago, but now it's quite often because we have a lot of like global projects. We have a project in Korchevel. We're working on an amazing project in Stockholm in Sweden. it's a former culinary school that was built last century next door there's a former zoo and so it's going to be a hotel membership club and then the former zoo is going to be a music venue cool yeah it's really cool really exciting project so the travel definitely and then i have partnerships like different partnerships with global partners where we do creative direction for and design product.

52:26Kelly Wearstler:So that's like really also really fun and exciting. One thing that I just designed that was really incredible is a piano.

52:38Rick Rubin:Cool. Tell me about that.

52:40Kelly Wearstler:So it's a company in the UK, they're in Cambridge, and it's like a four generation family. And they design these really amazing pianos. And most of them, they're like more of a compact size because a piano takes at like 20 % of a room. So, and they're all focused on incredible design and something that's different and unique. So we've actually placed a few of their pianos in our projects. And so we have this like great relationship and they were like, we would love to design a piano with you. And it's so exciting. Like, who knew?

53:14Rick Rubin:Are there any projects that you haven't done yet? Like a dream project?

53:20Kelly Wearstler:You know, I don't look into the future so much. Like I, I like to kind of just like ride the wave and, and just be open to possibility. But there is one thing that would be so exciting that I would love to do. And that would be to design the torch for the Los Angeles Olympics. And, you know, I love sports. Like my family, like we're a very sporty family and we watch it all the time. And we're always going to, you know, sporting events. and I love stories of athletes. Like they're so inspiring and like where they came from and the grit and the fortitude and everything that they got to where they're the best of the best.

54:04Kelly Wearstler:I think it would be like the biggest honor. And there's never been a female that has designed the torch. So that would be something that would be a dream.

54:12Rick Rubin:Cool. Let's put that out into the universe and see what comes back. When you're going to a place you haven't been before, a new country, a new city, and you want to check out all of the handcrafted stuff and the unusual specific stuff, how would you find the best resources in a place you haven't been before?

54:30Kelly Wearstler:Just research and word of mouth and just being open and curious and really understanding kind of when you go to a new city, you want to seek out and see something. Like I love falling in love with things and when I see something new, Like just having that feeling and that emotion is so beautiful. So really seeking out all the anomalies that a city has to offer. And I have a lot of like great, you know, friends and dealers and people in the art and design world that, you know, are like-minded. And so calling them like, what is the best restaurant? And, you know, I just launched a sub stack and it's called Wurstler World.

55:12Kelly Wearstler:And we actually cover a lot of travel and sharing a lot of the different locations that I go to. And also it has a design lens, obviously, and it's fashion and it's art and it's anything that is creative and beautiful. And I love educating my community and sharing my knowledge and hearing from everyone. And Instagram, which I love, which is a very like kind of quick little, you know, nibble of information. like this is something that somebody can actually take away and do something with and be enlightened.

55:45Rick Rubin:When did you first start posting on Instagram?

55:48Kelly Wearstler:Right when it came out. And, you know, we were all like kind of uncertain. I was like, actually, it's really cool and interesting. And I'm all about doing something different. So when Instagram came out, I was excited. So we just jumped on the bandwagon and I had an in-house PR director at the time. So we just started telling stories of our studio and different projects that I've been inspired by in my career and different artists. And now we really tell stories of different projects. And we also try and give a little bit of inspiration in each one of the posts.

56:28Rick Rubin:Cool. What are your favorite hotels in New York?

56:30Kelly Wearstler:I stay at the Crosby generally, which I really love. And it's an intimate hotel. And it's really comfortable. And talk about acoustics, like the rooms, because they're all padded. Like the rooms are all upholstered. Cool. And it has like the floor to ceiling windows. And I just love like the natural light.

56:51Rick Rubin:Nice.

56:52Kelly Wearstler:And it goes across like the width of the room. I mean, yeah, I generally stay there.

56:56Rick Rubin:Favorite hotel in London?

56:59Kelly Wearstler:In London, I mean, a chill turn firehouse. Because it's just so good.

57:04Rick Rubin:Did it get rebuilt?

57:04Kelly Wearstler:They're working on it now. It's such a great hotel and the rooms are so comfortable and the bathrooms are, it has everything you need. And there's like, just like, there's a sense of luxury. Like they're a little more pared down, but like the detailing and the millwork and the doors and just did a, just such a fantastic job there. I would say a hotel that I just stayed in that I absolutely love was Edhem in Stockholm. And it's comprised of these two townhomes. There was one at the beginning when they first did the design. And every room is different. And it's so Swedish. And you feel like you're going into your aunt's home that has like the best taste.

57:51Kelly Wearstler:And she's an amazing chef. And there's cool music and there's a piano and the bars are these bars that you can go to and serve yourself. And you go into the kitchen and there's food out and then it's an open kitchen. And the rooms, like I love sometimes when I know the rooms are actually designed differently in a hotel, I always request to stay in. I move rooms because I want to experience and just, you know, this is like what I do. Yeah. And there were so many good takeaways there. I just, I absolutely loved it.

58:20Rick Rubin:Where do you stay in Paris?

58:22Kelly Wearstler:Paris, I stay at the Bristol because it's so Parisian. I mean, it's such the opposite of what at HEM is. You know, it's like everything at HEM is about, you know, everything is open and the back of house is front of house. And at the Bristol, the back of house is back of house and everything. You just see the staff. They're there for service. And it's very Parisian and old school. and the service is unbelievable. And yeah, it's a great hotel.

58:56Rick Rubin:How about Milan?

58:58Kelly Wearstler:Milan, I stay at the Portrait Milano, which is a fairly kind of a new hotel. And it's in this former courtyard. And the rooms are really so Melanese. They were designed by the Ferragamo family. And the food and beverage there is great. And it's very luxurious, but it's also very Melanese and it's in like amazing part of town where you can just kind of walk around and shop. It's in that, that main area. But hotels are really like, I love designing residential projects. They're very different than hospitality because you get so intimate and close with your, your clients, you know, they become, you know, your friend and confidant and, and you're doing something together that is so personal to them and you're learning from one another.

59:51Kelly Wearstler:A hotel though is like so sexy and generous and you're working with such a big team and there's so many voices and it's kind of coming together and honing in on what the dialogue is and all the different nuances and all the programming and it all has to kind of come together with many different people. And there's nothing better to like go visit like one of the hotels and you see the same people coming back and enjoying the space.

1:00:22Rick Rubin:In a place like Calneva, where there may be some specific, let's say wallpaper or carpet or upholstery, and it's not being made anymore, might you manufacture it based on the old design to keep this style of what it was?

1:00:41Kelly Wearstler:Yeah. So we'll, for example, in the Calneva project, like we went to a sense of nostalgia. So I was just in Milan and I went to this dealer that has a lot of like vintage wall coverings. And they're from the 70s and they're really quite spectacular. And so we're using those as the kind of jumping off point. And some of them, they actually have some dead stock where it's like, I want to actually use that wall covering in a project. And in a room that has four walls, there might be four different wall coverings in there. It actually makes it much cooler and more interesting. And yes, we 100 % will take something that we design that's inspired by something that is vintage or historic.

1:01:29Kelly Wearstler:And we have a lot of different mills and people that we work with. and we worked on this hotel in Austin and it's a proper hotel. And we, one of the food and beverage outlets was Mediterranean and I was in Portugal and I went to a really interesting tile store that had a lot of vintage tile. And I do this when I go to cities, I seek out kind of these unusual workshops and kind of family owned businesses that seem like they have something unique. And so I went in and they had all these really gorgeous tiles that were from, you know, anywhere from the thirties to the eighties. And so maybe some of the tiles, there was 30, there was like 50.

1:02:11Kelly Wearstler:So I created this huge wall in the restaurant that is like this mosaic of all these interesting tiles. And it just like looks, it has so much soul because this was a new construction. And so it really just brings all this like kind of authenticity and soul to the project and it's quite dynamic. How did the materials you pick change the acoustics of a room? Sound is such an important part of a space and having, you know, we'll design a restaurant and we want to make sure people can have great conversation and it's not really echoey. So we'll use different, you know, acoustical panel that you actually don't even see.

1:02:50Kelly Wearstler:And then you can skin over that. A lot of times we actually put felt underneath the dining tables, which help. Like we're doing a restaurant in Calneva that has like a stone marble floor. It's two pattern. It's just this really beautiful checkerboard. And we have some tile on the wall. There's a big open kitchen with all this really beautiful ceramic tile. And we're being very thoughtful about the upholstery that we're using and where we can put this acoustical material.

1:03:18Rick Rubin:So you said you would put felt under the table, meaning the bottom of the table?

1:03:21Kelly Wearstler:The underside of the table.

1:03:23Rick Rubin:What a cool idea.

1:03:24Kelly Wearstler:Yeah.

1:03:24Rick Rubin:That's great.

1:03:25Kelly Wearstler:And a lot of, if you, next time you go to a restaurant, you'll see like they do put this under there. Not all, but adding felt to the underside really helps with the acoustics. It's a great kind of trick of the trade.

1:03:37Rick Rubin:Yeah, I'm going to apply that when I get home. Let's say a room is very long. Are there things you can do to make it feel less uncomfortably long?

1:03:46Kelly Wearstler:I love strain-shaped rooms. I really do. And, you know, if we have a room that is quite long, like we might add portals to create like an enfilade or a new rhythm in the space. Adding windows, adding columns, which then could create height in a space. Adding a space within a space is also quite interesting. Use of mirror also expands a space. And the reflection of a window. Like there's so many different tricks and interesting things that you can do with material.

1:04:22Rick Rubin:Do you ever add steps?

1:04:24Kelly Wearstler:Yes, we actually, we had a project that we did in Manhattan and the windows were quite large, but they actually sat up maybe 32 inches off the finished floor. And so the clients really wanted to enjoy the view. so we actually created a stepped platform where the sitting area was so then they could enjoy the view and it just really made the space so much more dynamic and interesting so love playing with with volumes and creating spaces that really complement each other but also have this interesting tension because you want to in spaces you want to have a sense of discovery where you're not giving it away.

1:05:09Kelly Wearstler:And that's why when you go to an environment where it all feels the same, it's kind of one note. It's almost like a song. It's just kind of the same. You want to surprise your audience and have a sense of discovery and an interesting journey.

1:05:24Rick Rubin:What about things that maybe were once in style and have gone out of style, like a sunken living room? Is that something that you would decide to put in or is it something you would find and decide to keep?

1:05:36Kelly Wearstler:It would be both. Like, I would love to find a house that had a sunken living room. Yeah. Because I just love that kind of historic vibe. But we have planned, like, a home that we did in Los Angeles. Actually, it was a pool house. The clients entertain quite often. And so we wanted to have the visibility on the inside of the pool house right out to, like, unobstructed view to the pool and all the landscaping that was outside. So we actually did a sunken lounge space and it was really quite nice. But we also too have been putting in sunken bars and restaurants and bars because there's something nice.

1:06:20If you have a small space and you have a sunken bar, you are

1:06:25Kelly Wearstler:actually making the space feel larger because the bar is more at like almost like a dining height.

1:06:30Rick Rubin:How many steps down would the motor be?

1:06:32Kelly Wearstler:Two.

1:06:32Rick Rubin:You know, it depends.

1:06:34Kelly Wearstler:It could be, you know, it could be three steps down. It just depends on how much.

1:06:37Rick Rubin:And would you access it from all directions? On the sides.

1:06:40Kelly Wearstler:It's like so nice because then you're at a lower level and it doesn't cut the room off.

1:06:45Rick Rubin:Tell me about ceilings.

1:06:48Kelly Wearstler:Ceilings are such an important part of a space and a lot of people forget them. and whether it has lighting, whether there are some mechanical systems, like we really like to hide everything. And then sometimes if you have a historic project and you have to see them, sometimes they're on the ceiling, sometimes they're on the wall, is using something that is historic, that feels like it's speaking to the architecture of the building. And I love timber on a ceiling. I love putting plaster, unexpected. One thing I love doing is, say, we plaster a wall in, like, a really beautiful, like, golden rod color.

1:07:32Kelly Wearstler:I love to bring it up on the ceiling. And it just really adds to, like, the space and makes it feel really warm and kind of womb-like.

1:07:39Rick Rubin:Where do you and don't you use skylights?

1:07:42Kelly Wearstler:Skylights are never off limits in any room. Like, they're open to closets, bathrooms, to any space. I mean, they're so beautiful. Like, I would not say, like, I just, I'm open to skylights.

1:07:57Rick Rubin:Are there any things like skylights that you can do in multi-story buildings to get natural light to come through the building?

1:08:05Kelly Wearstler:Yeah, I mean, you can create, like, we've done where we've created, like, a shaft, like, at a staircase where you have, like, some incredible specimen, which is really nice and also creating like windows and the Calneva project we're doing now we have like a three-story stairwell that has floor-to-ceiling windows on one side and we took the rhythm of the mullions and we created this really great pattern of this grid that just is all-encompassing and now it just feels like a very organized space that has such a attitude and then all this natural light coming in. And then we're actually using a horizontal screen.

1:08:45Kelly Wearstler:So that will play with the light that's coming in and creating all this great dynamic diagonal lighting that will come in on certain times of the day.

1:08:55Rick Rubin:If you're restoring a home from, let's say, the 1950s, and now we live much more in the kitchen than we used to maybe in the 1950s, might you rethink the spaces or grow the kitchen or would you stick to the old footprint?

1:09:12Kelly Wearstler:I would stick to the old footprint in some respects and maybe make it a little larger. Sometimes people make the mistakes as you buy a home where the architecture is refined and the scale is refined and then people come in and make these big moves and it throws the scale off. Like scale is such an important part of design. And so I like to really stay like within the proportion. And if you have like delicate original windows that are from classic architecture and you're going to put new doors in, like they should speak the same language. And it's like oddly, like seat heights have tended to get much taller and it really kind of like truncates a room, like things that are just more grounded, like seat heights on vintage furniture are very low.

1:10:02Kelly Wearstler:there may be like a seat height on a soap is like, you know, 15 inches. And now it's like 23.

1:10:07Rick Rubin:Wow.

1:10:08Kelly Wearstler:So plates also another thing you go, you know, plates that you buy at the flea market, a dinner plate is like 10 inches. And now they're like 14. So the scale is like getting blown out of proportion. It's so important to honor the original scale.

1:10:26Rick Rubin:Do you find that the clients who come to you exist within certain archetypes?

1:10:34Kelly Wearstler:No, my clients are all over the place. You know, they come from different backgrounds. They do different types of jobs. Like I wouldn't necessarily say they're all creative. They want something that is different, and they generally are somewhat of a collector. And I love when they have something that is of super interest to them that I know nothing about.

1:11:11Rick Rubin:How do rooms change when people are in them?

1:11:15Kelly Wearstler:imagine a dining room and you have chairs and you have a table and it just makes a room come alive when i design a space and i'm curating like i i always say like imagine like all the elements in the room are people and they're all very different but they have like this great connection and these great conversations with one another it's interesting you brought up dining room for a long

1:11:42Rick Rubin:kind. I didn't like dining rooms, but I think it's for that reason. It feels like when there aren't people in it, it's like dead space.

1:11:50Kelly Wearstler:It's so true. I know.

1:11:52Rick Rubin:It's depressing.

1:11:53Kelly Wearstler:That's why when we design homes for clients, like they're generally now not these like confined rooms, like they're kind of open to another space because people use them differently. Sometimes people work at them. Sometimes they eat, you know, one meal a day at them. Sometimes they just use them for entertaining. So we try to make them where there are these like open rooms where you can, because it's square footage, it should be a space that you can enjoy. So having them have other purposes, maybe there's a bar in there, maybe there's some sort of access to outside that you can enjoy, you know, out in the exterior garden.

1:12:29Kelly Wearstler:And a dining room is, I totally agree. It's like this kind of awkward room that you kind of sometimes just like pass by, but they come alive with people. I mean, any space comes alive with people. And I, again, love watching people interact on spaces.

1:12:46Rick Rubin:I haven't thought about it before, but I think it's the empty chairs because the table itself probably isn't depressing. It's all of the empty chairs.

1:12:57Kelly Wearstler:That's why sometimes it's good to not use the same chair because it's just like repetition that looks a little just boring. And so doing things with like different chairs and bringing a different tension and different periods of chairs in a space to make it feel more dynamic and actually a little more interesting.

1:13:17Rick Rubin:I visited a friend's design studio the other day, and he had a big table that was like a dining table, bigger than a dining table, and it had stools with different colored seats, and they were all pushed under the table, so you could still stand anywhere at the table, but if you wanted to sit down, you could pull out a stool, and that wasn't depressing at all.

1:13:39Kelly Wearstler:Yeah, it's true. And you can have like in our kitchen at home, we have a, it's like a large table and it has two benches and it's always organized. That's the other thing is there's like chairs like in different ways and it does, it's true. It doesn't feel empty. You're so right.

1:13:56Rick Rubin:How much do you curate what happens outside of the windows?

1:14:00Kelly Wearstler:So, I mean, you know, a lot of times we know we work with these great landscape architects. Sometimes it's perfect, like a house is actually built around some incredible specimen. Or you have the ocean or you have like a city view and you have a brick building. And it's like, how are you going to incorporate that brick building into that space? And so what's outside the window is really important, how the light comes in, how the light affects color. and we did a space in this New York townhouse and the building next door was like a red brick. So, you know, that color is going to kind of permeate in the window.

1:14:40Kelly Wearstler:So doing something that's warm, we did on the inside, but then we actually contrasted it with a very cool colored rug and it just created this interesting tension. How much can you tell about how a space is going to feel

1:14:55Rick Rubin:before you live in it? How are renderings different than the experience of living in it?

1:15:00Kelly Wearstler:It is different for sure. And it goes back to even seeing a photo of a, you know, a dealer sends me a photo of some furniture. And then I go visit them in Paris. And I was just like, oh, my God, it did not come across. It's incredible. and so I really like to encourage the clients and myself and my team and when we are working on projects is going to the site because that really also influences like decisions that are made sometimes decisions are made on the fly like this is not working I think we have to pivot here and do something different so keeping it really fluid but a space you can get a general idea from a rendering.

1:15:46Kelly Wearstler:And now actually with AI, we're putting together little short films on how you can actually, you know, walk through the house, but also how, you know, you can really get a sense of feeling. And that's what's amazing about new technology, which I'm always about evolving and doing new things. And we've been using AI for quite some time. And so giving the client as many visuals that they can feel the space so then they can be part of the process and make decisions that that they feel they're connected to and that they can see themselves living with.

1:16:21Rick Rubin:Tell me about natural materials versus high-tech materials.

1:16:26Kelly Wearstler:Well, I love anything natural for me. Like I really love materials that are honest. And if it is steel, and I love steel, it's like an honest material. I don't particularly like things that that are a little, like, maybe too shiny and new because I like everything to feel like it has, like, a bit of soul. You know, even if it's, like, a mirror, I love it where it has, like, some kind of cast materiality feeling to it. It just has a nice richness.

1:17:01Rick Rubin:Tell me the most beautiful places you've ever been.

1:17:04Kelly Wearstler:The most beautiful places have been Mother Nature because it's always surprising you. and it's always kind of evolving. I mean, it's really magic. I mean, it could be going to a stone yard, which is like one of my favorite things to do, or a quarry, and just seeing just the scale and all the uniqueness in the world.

1:17:33Rick Rubin:Most beautiful homes you've been in?

1:17:36Kelly Wearstler:Most beautiful homes, I would say Doris Duke's home in Honolulu. Like that is just insane.

1:17:44Rick Rubin:Is it still like she lived in it?

1:17:46Kelly Wearstler:Yes, yes. And I went like five years ago. I've been a couple times. But it was really like the innovation that was there and the curation and the materiality and like just what she did to bring all of that inspiration from Morocco. and even like I remember the glass partitions go down into the, you know, subterranean, which is like for that time when that house was built is like really quite spectacular. But her closet and the bedrooms and the lounge areas, and she was such an amazing entertainer and just the site and the dialogue with the home and the positioning or the ocean, you know, it's always in my memory.

1:18:32Kelly Wearstler:And it's very decadent. It was a very decadent home. There was a lot of color. And then I would say I was just in Venice in Italy and I went to, and I've been many times, but to the Peggy Guggenheim Museum. And that is just unbelievable. I mean, that was her home for many years. And just the collection of art and the rooms and the spaces and the garden and obviously sits on, you know, the canal. It's like extraordinary.

1:19:02Rick Rubin:So would you say what makes a place great really has more to do with taste than anything else?

1:19:08Kelly Wearstler:Taste is really a complicated word. It's such a personal word, and you could learn taste, but I think it's also innate. It is opening yourself up for learning and being curious.

1:19:24Rick Rubin:Tell me something you believe now that you didn't believe when you were young.

1:19:29Kelly Wearstler:That dreams come true.

1:19:32Rick Rubin:Beautiful. That's a good one.

1:19:34Kelly Wearstler:Like, I honestly never thought, like, in a million years, like, I would be doing, like, when you're in school and you're waiting tables. Like, my first job, I was 13 years old. And it came from going to all these places with my mom. And I was like, I want money. Like, I want to buy shit. And my mom didn't have, you know, much money. And so I remember, because we lived in Myrtle Beach, she was like, okay, well, you guys can babysit. so we and this is like insane like we did this but she was like okay you can babysit so we made these like little these little business cards and then we went and like dropped them off at like all the hotels and like we would get calls and like a guy would like pick us up at home and take us I mean it's everything was fine nothing happened but like is that nuts it was like a different time like you think like that's so crazy but we started doing that and that was actually really fun That was like kind of my first.

1:20:32Kelly Wearstler:And the kids were cute, but I was like, I do not want kids. That was the only time I was ever really around them. Obviously, it changed. And then I ended up getting a job like the next summer. Like, I think I was like 14. I think I was actually babysitting when I was 12. But then when I was 13, 14, I got a job at this little cafe that was right on the beach. And I would make like smoothies and milkshakes and hamburgers. And I was like counting money at the end of the day. And I was like really responsible and, you know, I was there on time and working, you know, these like, you know, probably like six hour shifts.

1:21:09Kelly Wearstler:So loved always, just loved working and like having my own money that I could do anything I wanted to. So having that kind of like that kind of hustle early on is like never left me. And now I have a gallery called Side Hustle. Like who would ever think, you know. their dreams, they do, they come true.

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