Matthew McConaughey

In short

Podcast Summary: Tetragrammaton with Rick Rubin - Episode with Matthew McConaughey

Overview This podcast episode features a compelling conversation between Rick Rubin and Academy Award-winning actor Matthew McConaughey. They delve into McConaughey’s life as an actor, author, and philanthropist, exploring his experiences, philosophies, and the lessons he has learned throughout his career.

Key Points

Introduction

McConaughey is recognized for his roles in over 40 films, including *Dazed and Confused*, *Dallas Buyers Club*, *Interstellar*, and *True Detective*.
He is also a bestselling author, known for his memoir *Greenlights*.
Co-founded the Just Keep Livin’ Foundation, focusing on empowering high school students through fitness programs.

Acting Journey

Early Experiences: McConaughey discusses how he initially entered acting without formal training and only began studying the craft around 1998. His mentor, Penny Allen, taught him crucial acting techniques, helping him understand character motivations and needs.
Learning and Growth: He emphasizes the importance of bridging instinctual acting with acquired knowledge, allowing him to deliver more authentic performances.
Self-Awareness: Initially nervous about viewing his performances, he gradually learned to view them from a critical perspective, leading to greater self-acceptance and understanding of his craft.

Career Turning Points

Breakthrough Role: McConaughey's rise began with *Dazed and Confused*, where he was at the right place at the right time, leading to a significant career launch.
Independent Film Experience: A challenging role in a small independent film taught him to reconnect with the instinctive excitement of acting, which helped him land bigger parts.
Taking Risks: During *Rain of Fire*, he faced challenges with his appearance (shaved head) but turned it into an opportunity, leading to further success.

Philosophies on Acting

Pressure vs. Tension: Discusses how constructive pressure enhances performance while tension can hinder it. Striving for balance allows the creative process to flourish.
Importance of Preparation: Highlights that thorough preparation leads to better on-set performance, where spontaneity and creativity can flourish.

Reflections on Life and Spirituality

Spirituality: McConaughey speaks on the need for rituals and the importance of introspection, particularly when writing his memoir. He emphasizes finding a balance between faith and practical living.
Family and Fatherhood: Sharing his journey as a father, he discusses the importance of nurturing confidence and independence in his children while maintaining strong values.

Thoughts on Creativity

Music Influence: Expresses a deep connection to music, relating it to his emotional experiences and creative processes in acting. He often creates soundtracks for his roles to enhance his performances.
Writing: Although he struggles with reading long texts, he enjoys writing as a means of self-discovery and expression.

Final Takeaways

McConaughey stresses the importance of authenticity, both in his acting and personal life. He advocates for continuous self-reflection and urges others to remain open-minded and willing to grow.

Key Quotes

"If I go into a scene with intention, there's what I want to do, there's what I'm actually doing."
"Don't have acid something, man. If you're going to do it, then do it."
"Cynicism is one of the biggest diseases we have and it kills us early."

Conclusion Through his honest reflections, McConaughey shares valuable insights into the complexities of his career, the art of acting, and the personal philosophies that guide him. The episode serves as an inspiring reminder of the interplay between creativity and personal growth.

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Transcript

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0:00Tetra Gramsophe.

0:22When I first started, I had the instincts for it, but I didn't really know what I was doing. I didn't know what I was doing, but I couldn't explain it. I didn't know what my rights were. I didn't know what to stand up for. My man, as I called it, I do now. I never went to acting school and I never had anyone sort of teach or coach me until about 1998, which was about six years after I started. I met with this woman who's been one of my great mentors in my life, Penny Allen, the late Penny Allen. She's moved on now. She taught, started teaching me my rights. She taught me how to break down a script.

1:06How do you go? Where's the character coming from in the scene? Where's the character going? What's the need? What's the obstacle? What's the event? All those things that are classic acting questions, that are an act of needs and all. I had about two years of a very clumsy time in acting. When you just have the instincts or something, then all of a sudden you're going to go learn the knowledge. You get conscious. I was conscious. It was sublimating for my instinct, but I stuck with it. After about two years, you learn something. I got across that bridge where now what I know is in tune with what I understand and what I always understood.

1:48When I combine it to, that's when I can get really fun. That's when I start to love it because I learned ways to love it. I could have a plan in preparation and take that plan to the set between action and cut and know how a good enough plan would be prepared enough that I could call audibles or react to whatever is going on. That doing that and then knowing, I used to not know, meaning, if I go into a scene with intention, there's what I want to do, there's what I'm actually doing. There's what's actually getting recorded, and then there's what's getting edited. I would sit there and go, oh, that was it.

2:28Then director would go, come have a look. I'd look at it and go, oh, no, that isn't what I thought I was doing. Now I've closed those gaps. That came from learning the knowledge of study and act. I've closed those gaps. When I want to do something, it's pretty dog -unclosed to what I'm actually doing, which is pretty dog -unclosed to what's actually getting recorded. I've closed the gap. Would you say that a big part of that was being able to look at it, see what you did, and then, based on that information, try it again? I mean, look, the objective side of early on, I was too afraid to go look at a monitor.

3:05Early on, I still, not as much anymore, but early on, I would go see a film that I was in and have to go to the park a lot and throw up just because it was stressful. You see one scene in a whole week's work, or it would come brushing into 60 seconds on a film, and it was too much, and I didn't like seeing myself. I didn't like hearing myself. Again, got over that a little bit. It could be interesting to hear, though, because I wouldn't know what little I know about your personality. I would think you'd be comfortable seeing yourself on the screen. So the fact that it took time, that's an interesting thing.

3:41It took a lot of time. I'm still the better the performance, the easier it is for me to watch. If I catch myself, bullshit, and I catch myself. Can you ever see a movie with you in it and not know what's you? Can you fall into the character? Yes. The quicker I can watch a performance, say in this instance, one of my own, and say the character's name is Ron Wooder for whatever, and go, how quick I go. Oh, who's this guy Ron? Instead of who's this guy? I'm a con. I hate playing this guy Ron, which sometimes that happens. And I'm like, I'm not getting past seeing myself. And the quicker I can get in, go, oh, I'm seeing this character.

4:22And yeah, I know it's me. But I'm following this man. And then I end up afterwards going, oh, here's what hairs have felt about that. Then I can kind of look at the man go, well, you did that. But it's, it comes after. You've been in so many movies and your face is so familiar for the audience to go past it being you and become the character. Does that get more difficult as you do more and more films?

4:49It became that way when I had a really successful romantic comedy run, where I was the go -to rom -com guy. And I was, those movies were succeeding. They were doing one of the box office and I had done like four or five in a row. Now that did box me because no one, any - People just saw you as that. That's it. And the life I was living. I was at your Malibu, just learning to surf from on the beach without my shirt on. It all kind of fit like, oh, this is office - You've planned him so. You've planned him so. So what that did was, if I did go and I snuck in a few independent dramas in there that were not romantic comedies, the audience didn't react to them.

5:27They were like, no, no, no, no, no. I went to see you over here. Yeah.

5:34Now, I then took off. And that's when we moved back to Texas. Camilla and I, she was pregnant with our first son, who's now named Levi. And I took a sabbatical from Hollywood, moved back there and said - How long was sabbatical did you take? Well, it didn't that be in 22 months. I didn't know how long I was going to. It was a one -way ticket into - Tell me what you were thinking. What was the mindset? It was a conscious decision because I couldn't do what I wanted to do. And I was wanting to do some dramas. Wanting to do some, I said, okay, I'm going to, if I can't do what I, I'm not being offered what I want to do.

6:05I'm going to stop doing what I'm doing. So I rebranded. Press stop on what I knew. I went away, didn't know how long I was going to take. The conscious decision was, look, my life at that time was so vital. Fall in love with Camilla. She's pregnant with our first child. My life was alive, man. I was mad, sad. I felt anything. The ceilings were high and the basements were low and the bandwidth was wide. The work I was doing at that time, those role men, it comes. We're like, it was a minimized day to, no, don't feel that much. Don't be that happy. Don't be that mad. Don't be that sad. I was feeling governed by the work and I was like, man, I'm happy to say that my life feels more vital than my work.

6:53If it's going to be one way or the other, I'm glad it's that way. I know, but I'd like to find some work that challenges the vitality of what I'm feeling in my life. And that was going to be in dramas, which are what dramas allow for. And so we had it off Texas. It called the agent and said, no more romcoms, no more action comedies. And it went dead silent for a while. And I got a little, I had, I was never going to come back on my choice, but it did get a little wobbly. As I like to say, that bottle on the shelf started to look a little better earlier in the day. I didn't have purpose. I was looking, I didn't have, what were your days like?

7:29Tell me about those 22 months. Not a gardening, yard work, writing. You always write? I've always written. My opinion is kind of a note taker. Diary? Journal, diary, notes on that. When did you start? That's about 12th. And consistent. Yeah. Do you keep them? I kept them all. Great. Have a treasure chest. That's beautiful. Yeah. Beautiful. Do you ever look back? Well, I did, but I went and wrote a book, Greenlight. That's exactly what that was about, which was a scary prospect for me. Because I don't really like, I'm not comfortable looking back. But that, that 2 and a half, 3 year process right now was all about going back.

8:23I took all the diaries away, went out to Martha, Texas. And that's what I knew I needed, that first 17 days when I went away with nothing but my diaries in me and no cell service, no nothing. The first 10 days were hell. I did not like the company. And as I was looking back at myself, I was embarrassed and it was shamed and things. And I was, ugh, and the monkeys were on my back and the demons were coming out and I was not. I was drawing blood with myself. We were wrestling it out. But I stuck with it and after about 10, 12 days, which usually is what happens when I go on these one -person walkabouts.

9:02I hit the spot where I was like, oh, that stuff you were so embarrassed about, where you were so arrogant or whatever, you cocky little shit you were. Well, look, but if you wouldn't have been that cocky, you wouldn't have put yourself in a position to get humbled to where you figured out what you figured out. So let's applaud that cocky little sum of it you were. And let's not be embarrassed. Let's laugh at it. Things that I was ashamed for. Like, I was having trouble forgiving myself for it. I started to go, I didn't know what I couldn't do about it. And then that lesson that seems to happen, I think, with all of us at some time, you start to shake hands with yourself.

9:36And you go, well, okay, where are what stuff are we saying? The buck stops here, tired of that shit, no more. And what stuff are we saying? I forgive you, bud. Because you realize it. It's one dude. Yeah. Fins just were, it's time we're good. I was not, I knew I wasn't evil. I knew I wasn't a tyrant. I didn't have skeletons in my closet or I was like, oh, I'm a bad guy. But I had wrestles. I was wrestling with demons and wrestling with my relationship with God and myself. You know, but I get to that and got to that point where, it's like, all right, you know, remember my cocky, there's only one person that you do not have a choice to sleep in bed with every night.

10:16How long was that whole process? 17 days. So that next five days, then I started to fly. Then I was like, oh, I see you're essentially the same guy you were when you were 12. I see you still got a lot of the same questions. I see you've got some more answers to some of those questions, but we're still thinking, you're still essentially the same young man you were. Yeah. 12, still thinking the same way I ask and the same question to interested in the same thing. So the next five days, I started to find, the themes started to appear. And there were like 8, 9, 10 essential themes. I was like, oh, this is everything you've got falls into one of these buckets.

10:53And how do you not done this? You would have never known those themes only by looking back. Only by looking back. Did I see that there and even today, four years later, got a whole new bucket of stuff of four years, not 50 years worth, four years worth. And those, the buckets are similar. They're kind of different titles and evolutions, but their evolutions on the same way I was thinking when I was 12. And I wouldn't have found it without looking back. I know, I mean, I needed a need or wanted. I'm glad I went and found the connection with my past. Obviously, better, I better understand where I am and what's at my head, because I feel the thread.

11:37My thread to my past was consciously pretty short before that. And that helped that thread get wider, thicker, and longer. Tell me more about from those first 17 days to getting a finished book. So I go away, I come back. I was on fire that first time I came back. I felt like I'd, the lightning bolt struck. And I was like, oh, we've got something. It's emerging. I can't help it. It's happening. So I come back and Camilla was over across the yard and I remember I just bam saw her, hugged her, dropped to my knees and just tears of joy for falling toward just a, just came out of me from that experience where I'd just been.

12:25Right. So I stayed at home. Would you say we were more in touch with yourself? I felt, describe what was going on internally when you came back.

12:40Truth was wide open. I just felt more whole. I felt more, I was the same, I tracked myself back to when I was 12 and riding, but all the way back when I was eight and five. And I was like, yeah, and here I am all of this. And I hadn't, I hadn't, that's been over there in the closet, behind the door. And now, hey, here, here, there was a, like all attitude was gone. Attitude was gone. So if you use a word, people like to use the word vulnerable, I was just, we just opened and just, wrong and clear the mind, the heart, the loins were in sync and just. So it was a therapeutic process? Yeah, 100%.

13:26You came together. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. So I did that 17 days. I come back for a few weeks, panel around, get back, catch up today, get back in the credit section with family and working a few things. I head back out the next time, where I go the next time, I think I went to Longview, Texas, which is where I was raised. And I went out a little camp by a lake. And I did a 12 days, I told the 12 day run there. I came back after that, I felt that all seemed more comfortable. And you do these totally by yourself, by yourself. You make it a point not to see anyone else during that time, if you can.

14:04Yes. I pack up a bunch of rib eyes, a bunch of water, tequila, and go. And I came back from that, that was a good trip. And then I went to a buddy, my Barton Axe place, on the Lano River, where I learned to swim. And had a great run there. That was an anarchic time. Now, the story was getting wild. I found the stories here they were, here's the themes. Now they were getting wild, and I had the confidence to go, go, go, lead the fangs on the stories. We're not going to defame it. We're not cutting the balls off the story. We're going to lead the fangs on them. And that was a really wild, the third session was a wild run.

14:46And that was about 14 days. The next one was when I took buddy Richard Link, later's place, director. He's got it stayed now in a tree house at his, and every day we'd come to his library. And so I was emerging coming out of my own hole into sort of more, the library was more like I was inspired by all the books and writers. And he'd pop by every few hours. I mean, we'd have a little conversation for 10 minutes and he'd pop out. So I was starting to have it, becoming the monologue was now becoming a dialogue. That was a really good order run. I had it all tightened up, I really felt like I had something in between.

15:20I had since up to my editors and they would help. And by this time, they're finishing my sentences. And I'm finishing theirs. And by this time, you know, early on when I sent them something they go, we don't think this, we don't get this story. And I was like, how can you not get that story? Well, 95 % of the time, they were right. They didn't get it because I hadn't written it well enough. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which then when I would write it better, and she'll say, oh, I get it. And I was like, ah, that's what you mean when you say this doesn't go. Well, I need to write it better. Then the fifth time I went for what I was always sort of a fantasy dream of my New York has always been a, I don't know, I'm kissing my back of my mind right here in New York.

15:57Have you ever lived in New York? No, but I love New York. And so I then went, let myself go to the Greenwich and got a single room and stayed there. For 14 days, all my own. But let myself have room service. Let myself go, I'm going to have football. Yeah, watch my enough football. I was waxing the car now. I was really down to the final, final edit. It's also different energy in New York. Just even if you don't talk to anyone, you feel the people. I think I knew York, man, my metabolism speeds up there. I need less sleep, but I was more and more energy. I love New York. And so to go there as a writer, kind of, I don't know, in a romantic way, maybe like, I'm a writer in New York, man, this is cool.

16:45And then something that I went out and I don't want to bring this up, because I want to see what you think of this. So I went out for recently back to Martha with what I've written in the last four years. Let's see what you got. I don't know, there's many stories. There's stories, first stories, 50 years of my life. Now I've got four, but some stuff I think is true and original and possibly worth sharing. But it hit me about why am I so fired up, tuned in. Again, the mother feeling as primal as I can ever feel when I'm out there in Martha. It's so low density. There's so few people. It's so quiet.

17:25The sky is so big. There's so few distractions. And the nature is big, but it's not overwhelming. It's not like the jungle. It's not. The desert manicures itself. It's like a cat. It's pretty minimal. Very minimal. And I think it leaves a lot of space for the mind to do its thing. I think that's why Donald Judd moved there in the 70s. Well, this is part of what, there's a theory I'm working on now. I'm asking people about it. I was conceived four miles from where I was riding. Martha. I didn't know that. Fort Davis. Fort Davis Mountain. Wow. Lot 63, Mom and Dad. Wow. Conception. Coming back to conception.

18:17I think that that location. Like people always go where you're from. Yeah. Where you raised. I'm interested in an experiment of taking people back to where they're conceived. Whether they know it or not, and see what happens over three months or six months of their life. Yeah. I think there's the big, the alpha omega. I think there's a beginning and an end if we go back to conception. Yeah. There's so much we don't know. Yeah. You know. Yeah. And I love to know. And also try to remind myself. Great. Also know what you don't know. Yeah. Would you say you live in your head or your body? I'm. I spent a lot of time in my brain.

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20:54When you read a script. Yeah. And you like it. What is happening in you that tells you you like it. Okay. So when I start off. It is a, it's logic. I want to, I call it conservative or liberal late. Liberals the fun part when the bodies dictate right. But the first part I want to measure. Is this thing written well? Is destruction good? Is the story good? Is the character good in this story? Is it logically put together? Did the writer get lazy and the end of act two to go to act three? And conveniently write something this my character would never do. Just so they could land the plan. Do you read it as a story or do you read it as a vehicle for the character?

21:34But both. And it takes few reads. But the first off is. Story. Then I'm looking at who's. You know, my man going through it. I try to try to. Again, I'm dying. I'm dissecting early. And sometimes. I'll, I, I, it matters when I read. Like I'm not sure how. I'm a slow reader. I'm a one. And I have to pick my spot. Me too. I don't like. Hey, you got an hour between two and three. And then you're off from seven and I okay, I'll read 60 pages. And then I'll read. No, I need to, I want to go. Especially I want nothing on the back end. Yeah. Because if I get into it, I want to wander with it. If I read really slow, if I want to keep reading it and read it again.

22:20And in through the night, I don't want to, I don't want to schedule or to appointment. Or an end point. So if that can free me up to really give the thing justice it deserves. And there are many, there's movies I've done where I was like, now that things trust. I've had people come to me. My team going, dude, you got to read this again. You're not seeing. I'm like, what? And then I read and get glued in. Killer Joe, you five seven one. The ones that people close to me is like, you got to read this again. And I went back in the right space and saw the truth in it for me. And why it was a good idea for me.

22:55That I did not see before. So, did I get going on character? And that's what my preparation after I'm like, okay, I'm interested here. I've talked with who's the rest of the team? Who's the director? It's their movie. That's who I really want to get in. I really want to have it, hopefully, a strong relationship or trust in that director. Because it's their movie. Do we have the similar sense of humor? Do we have a similar sense of what we deem excellent? True. Untrue. Sensibility. Because if we don't, we're going to be, I'm going to be doing what I think is true when I love and I go, that's it.

23:41And they're going to be going, no, I like this one. I'm going to be going, no, why are you like that, take. I was bullshit. Look at me. I was acting. You caught me acting right there. You're done. So then we're going to have a long shoot because we're going to have, so we, you know, kind of move his do you like. But he's done, kind of music you like. What kind of sense of humor you got. Then you kind of, okay, we're going to communicate well. We have a similar sense of truth through excellence. And then I'm, then I'm just breaking down character. And I get it and try to get every character in one long musical note, that thread again.

24:14Each scene, each, you know, each part of the scene has notes, just like music, right. And notes in order can make a song. And so how do you, I go from being very didactic, like I said conservative early in the moment, what's the truth in this moment. There's that note. Then this one, there's that note. Then back away and now it gets fun. Now I'm going, okay, let's breeze through the script. And I'll laminate pages, read them in the shower. I'll, I'll, I like to read it, you know Saturday night, the buzz at 2 a .m., I like to read it 2 p .m. After church on Sunday, I like to read it Tuesday afternoon after five mile run.

24:58Read it when I'm excited, when I'm sad, when I'm tired. And you get new insights depending on your status, Bingo. So now I'm starting to see the character from different angles. So this is now arming me. So I can go to the scene with, I mean, I got four versions of the truth. Yeah. So whatever you thought of me, it's going to probably most likely fit in one of those. And I'm, whoop, throwing it out there. And you're going, that's what I was talking about. I'm ready. On the set, if there's going to be another take, how often would it be the director saying, let's do another take versus you saying, let me try again.

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25:32I'll shoot all night. I mean, because I'll just, I loved, I loved, let's try, yeah, let's try to get iterations. I might just come up with something, something that's a magic might happen that we didn't know about.

25:46So usually the director saying, we got it. And I'm like, okay, what's your state of mind on the first day of a new project? I'm nervous. I've learned to be happy about being nervous. Yeah. Got the edge. You're nervous because you care. Yeah. That's good to care. Yes. Amen. Yeah. So I'm reminded after I've learned to remind myself, hey, is everybody's first day, bro. 200 people here. Everyone's trying to find the way. Things are going to move slower than you think. I used to wake up in the morning, 5 a .m. Ready to go. Let's go. And then by launch, I'm like, I need it. I'm wasted. I need it now.

26:34I've learned to pace.

26:39Because too much energy, too early, just takes unnecessary endurance to have the right kind of focus at the time in between action and cut, which is basically the only time really needed. So I remind myself that everything is moving slower. Everyone's going to find their way. So sit back and let's find a way and listen. Step the tone. Usually if I'm going to be, say, the lead, I know that when I show up to work, how prepared I am, everyone else is watching that. Oh, what kind of thing is on time? What kind of thing is this shit? Let's go. This is how this is going to be. Instead of showing up late and going, what are we doing today?

27:25Oh, you can do that too. So I know that that's going to be the pace. Everyone else sees it as going to be. And I like to work at that pace because I want to have as much time to play with the magic in between, well, let's try it this way. Let's try it this way. And if I'm there on time, we can try it more ways and get more out of the day and dance more.

27:51I'll go for it. I try to pop the top in the first day, meaning because I'm nervous, I try to go out of my comfort zone and maybe do a take or two that way. And back. Going too far. Go cold, go too far. I see. And because I find it much easier to come back rather than going, did I ever get there? Yeah. I'm going to go too big. Go over it. Go way back. What was that? Great. Well, now we... Yeah. Now we did the animated version. Now let's do the real life. I find it much easier to come back there. And so I try to do that. That's a decompressor for me. And then I start to settle in. And there it is.

28:35The simple one after you go too big is when they go, there it was. Yeah. That was truth. There you go. We're good. And for you, it's still new because the big one is one thing and then when you come down from it, it's a new thing you're doing again. Yeah. And I know, I've done this long enough now. When I do it well, I tell the truth, I can feel it. And after it's looked at you and go. And you're like, yeah, I don't even need to go look at the monitor. We're like, that was it. At the same time, we're going to do another take. I've learned to try to... Sometimes as performers, we go, well, let me do it.

29:08I did there again. Yeah. Goes away. No, no, no. I will remember in my head, there's three spots I want to get to in this scene. To get you from here to there to there. But I don't want to know how I'm going to get there. So, let's... One thing I always would have a habit of doing is coming in very... With my preparation coming in very balanced. Like solid, I'm balanced. And one thing that Penny Allen taught me, you get that prepared. Now come in on one leg because what we want to see in life is someone find their balance in a scene. Not come in on balance, but the finding of the balance in the scene.

29:50The getting past the obstacle to get what you need to come out the other side. That's really where you see real life coming out. So, I've... I get massively prepared, then I come in and try and... I love it when I direct a throw something at me. I tell something that I don't know. Like, don't tell me you're going to do that thing. Let me get surprised. Let me react. Because that'll be the good stuff. Yeah. You know, when I don't know it's coming. Yeah, it's real. Yeah. Over the course of a movie, do you get new insights into the character? Yes. Yeah. Let me... Good example was... So, I've always...

30:26I've always done films which is typically 120 pages, right? So, you break that down. What do you got? 40 pages first act, 40 pages second act, 40 pages second act. Well, every actor's favorite act is act one. Because that's where we're introducing you to us. Even if you know what this story is and how it's going to end, you had never done it with me. You know what I mean? So, let me give you 40 pages of a original character you're going to go through this story with. Did I go to a series called True Detective? I don't know, 450 pages. How many episodes it was? I got 150 pages act one. That's like, three episodes.

31:06Woo! Well, after I got... I was about 100 pages in that one. And I started to get nervous. Like, this is going to be boring. I got to release here. No, no, no. Just trust that if you hold that line, like music, right? If you hold that, you're pulling the bow back. And then at 150, when it happens, it's because the dynamic, you're going to go, whoa! Yeah. And I think, until I did, but I got nervous. I was going, man, is this boring? No, because it's just a different rhythm than you're used to. Yeah. But it had a longer act one to just indulge myself in. Is that the only time you've done TV? Yeah.

31:49I've done some different episodes where I showed up and cameos and stuff, but that's the only consistent character. I think it was a good experience. I loved it. I loved it. And the writing in the... Carefully going out of the director, and the writing was such hot shit. It was like, every day, it was like, I can't wait to say these words. You have to believe the character you're playing.

32:10You have to believe you don't agree with him. Okay. Meaning they could have a different point of view than you do, but you can still play that character. Can you play any character or no? Yeah, I think so. I mean, we all got everybody in us. Yeah, yeah. You know? For instance, though, time to kill. I played defense attorney. He was arguing retribution for the... The many who raped. This man's daughter. There's a time to kill, but I didn't agree with that. I don't personally agree with that eye for an eye. But understanding the prosecutor, and you know in the story, that's who that is. Yeah. And that's a real perspective.

33:05But I also think understanding the prosecution or even agreeing with it absolutely helped me be a better defense attorney. Even agreeing with that in a way helped. Look, the Rustin Cole and Trit detective. That is agnostic at least. And goes into some philosophy, and theories that go, whoa, I don't want to be... I'd never... My faith had never been so strong in my personal life. It's been. And I know that my... How solid I felt in my own life, my own faith, gave me help me have the courage to go, oh, I want to go way away. I don't have to look over my shoulder.

33:50See if... My buddy, God's still there. No, I can go way into the dark. So I don't think I would have had the courage to... Because I would go into places in there and floss where I was absolutely not believing. But I had the trust because of... I had to have... My faith was strong in my real life. It's definitely been at that time. And you're telling a story. And in stories, you don't agree with all aspects of the story. It's what makes the story work. Well, the protagonist is only as good as the antagonist. That's it. You've got to have a great adversary. Yeah. It's a massively important service.

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35:20Create a blog. Monetize a newsletter. Make a marketing portfolio. Launch an online store. The Squarespace app helps you run your business from anywhere. Track inventory and connect with customers while you're on the go. Whether you're just starting out or already managing a successful brand, Squarespace makes it easy to create and customize a beautiful website. Visit squarespace .com slash tetra and get started today. What do you say you are moved through life or you move through life? I think I moved through life. Again, it goes back to your head and body analogy. I'm very deliberate. I'm very intentional.

36:22I have written many proverbial headlines and went and made that headline happen. I've set many goals and made that happen. Now, at the same time, spiritually, I have an engineered, defined in my life. Connections in life that were just divine. I didn't engineer those. I did engineer putting myself in a position to receive them. I got conscious of that. You got to take a road trip or walk about it. You need to go away solo. I'm lost. I'm going mad. You know enough to know that you're lost. Take action and go put yourself in place for your stuck with you. In wrestle through it, draw blood until the divinity comes and the truth lands on you.

37:23That little butterfly lightning bolt that you go, that's true for now and all time. I mean, cops don't have to know when I need to go put myself in place or even take a road trip. I'm ahead of time. Time is it. Two o 'clock, just noon. You've got to slow your roll, but you're two hours ahead of time. You've only been up for five hours. You need to get on time.

37:54I think I move.

38:00Like I have to go to talk about like a divinity or a relationship spiritually. The times I've been heavily, like I believe, at times I've been heavily agnostic. There's no God. I've always felt like God was going, there you go. Boy, put your hands on the wheel. Too many of us just lay back and go, in Shalah, if God's willing, hey, it's about fate. If it happens, I don't. My hunch is that that's not, that if there is a guy, he's going, well, yeah, but take responsibility for this. You can make choices that will have consequences and put your hands on the wheel. And so in that way, I think I'm moving, but I mean, the big stuff that's happened to me, it's moved me.

38:57If I go back and look at that 50 years of writing, green lights, those stories, I thought 90 % of my success is like, we're going to be the stuff I engineered. I moved it. The majority of the big spiritual things happen to me. I didn't do it. It happened. Did I go out, did I get myself out the door? Did I put on my premier bill shoes? You did your part. But it happened to me. I wasn't making the math. I wasn't making the poetry. Tell me about your spiritual life. I'm happiest and most connected spiritually when all day, when I'm praying with my eyes open, when this is a prayer, when every exchange is a prayer.

39:49But truthfully, what do I also need? Come Friday. I kind of need Sunday morning. I need that church. I need to go to that place to do inventory on the loved ones in my life. Do inventory on my week to roll through my mental rolodex and see the people I love. They're the truest form. I wish that for them. And then end on me. End on an image of myself. Not Instagram happy. Not just where I am. If I can grasp that image, that's my final. Let's take that to the week. But I need that Sunday. I need that ritual where I'm forced into going at the most, I'm number two. You know what I mean? I need that humility.

40:47And I didn't, humility was a word that I struggled with for decades. Because I would always lose confidence. And I'd be passive. Explain that.

41:06Humble. And I would recede. And then I heard a definition that humility was just a meeting you got more to learn. And all of a sudden that one goes, my shoulders went back. Mark got high. I was like, oh, I'm in. Yeah. But now I'm engaged. Now I can be involved. Now I can be confident. Now I can be like, again, I know what I don't know. Oh, there's a bunch of stuff I don't know. That's humble, but that's face it. You're not bound. You're head to that. You're going, yeah, I think 100%. I don't know that. I don't know. I'm still searching. Well, cool. Instead of, I don't know. And I've gotten a better relationship with that.

41:53And through my spiritual life. And it's in the last probably ten years. But I do still need, it's a fun day. I, you know, were a bit, I was raised on methods. A method is in a stereotypical way. We were raised. It's a lot of bad gratitude to be thankful of what you do have. That's still a big basis of my sort of daily spiritual. And I got that from a family and try to carry it on with my family. And I think it's really important. I think it's really strong, a strong, easy foundation. Tell me about your prayer life. Yeah. We have, I mean, there's the nightly, the ritual around the table. Go forward, do that.

42:32Yeah. Which everyone goes around. Give us one thing you're great for. There's, my wife loves to do it with all the kids. For they've got a bed. Give me a rose, give me a thorn. Give me both from the day.

42:50I don't have any sort of meditation rituals or times in the day that I go, oh, I'm going to go for a walk about or a meditator. Sit still. Again, if, when I'm, when I, here's when I feel the most spiritual, when I'm looking at men like brothers and women like sisters. And that's not a lot of time. I can start to objectify people and not look at it. And I have to cast myself, whoa, your eyes getting low. Kind of, raise your eye. When I'm seeing men like brothers and women like sisters and be a big brother, seeing you think, oh, be a big brother to them. That's when I'm, that's when I'm moving everything.

43:39It's not just me moving ahead. Everything's connected for me. And I'm the most spiritually strong. When I feel like, oh, yes, it is about self -reliance. Absolutely. And have your hands on a little bit. You're not in control. Yeah. But drive the, but you know what? steer the best you can. Yeah. steer the best you can and be open to, to be open to, to magic that happens. And trust it, like I say, my least favorite word is unbelievable. That everything happens out. Yeah. Of course. When I'm most spiritually strong, I've got the best sense of humor. My humor is high. So things that we used to, when I'm not as spiritually strong, hurt me, you're like, oh, are you kidding me?

44:21How's the vet app? No, I'm not there. I'm much more quickly going, how ridiculous. Of course. Of course. Yep, there we go again. Two Shay, got me. Yeah. Shame on me for thinking I had it all. You're going to mean, dummy. Here we go. Yeah. So those are the things that I know with that, that how I feel when I'm most spiritually strong. Did you have a different path imagined for your life? Had you not gone into acting? Yo, yeah. What we can do. I was going to go be a defense attorney. And for real? Yeah. And defend the family business. Yeah. Your father was defense attorney? No, he was a pipe salesman.

44:59He got into enough stuff where he was like, oh, you might need you, buddy. Protect other family. I understand. You want to protect families. Protect our family. Oh, you want family? Okay. Yes, protect the McConaughey. My dad was like, hey, you're a pretty good argue. Yeah, you get that. Go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. Come back to defend the company. We got a few deals going on. I might need to defend. How different is your performance depending on the actor you're playing against?

45:32That's a good question.

45:37So no matter who I'm playing with or who's on the other side of me. I'm going to have my monologue before we're going to have a dialogue. So I'm going to know when I say my man, I'm going to have my identity. Yes. And if I got that, then it's going to be fresh every time to whatever happens. But you're going to see essentially the same, same character for me. May say things. The person decides to play the part opposite you whispers daily. Do you respond in some way or if they yell at you, do you respond in a different way? How much does it change? So look, I've worked with many actors. I've been that actually that comes and just goes way off script to something wild.

46:26So you, and it can be. It can be like, whoa. I had, that was far, far, far from what I've expected. But hey, what in my place to even expect? So let's go with this. There's times where someone's going really big. I just counter and become much more still and much more simple. There's times where someone's whispering. And I'll be to give dynamic. Let's give a little, let's give a little accordion. This thing a little bit. And it's also.

47:09I'm having trouble hearing you. Yeah. You can do that. You're wondering why they're whispering? Ask them why they're whispering. You're wondering why they yell and go, hey man, I can hear you. Yeah. You know what? So whatever that comes into mind, you don't have to break that wall and get objective. Just do it. Just ask the question. Wow. You had your coffee this morning, didn't you? Yeah. All right. Here we go. Yeah. I'll just break sweat. I mean, just do it. Do it in the same. Don't ask permission. Just do it. And let it play out. So just play against it. Or if you, what the hell are you doing?

47:43Ask them what the hell they're doing. Yeah. Literally ask them. What the hell are you doing? Do you ever change lines? Yes. And adlib, ad lines? Yes. I think I'm pretty good at that. And there's a difference though. The definition of improv is not coming and makes them shit up. It has to come from the original text that that writer wrote. It has to come in from, I can rip. What's the relationship of this? Me and you Rick sitting here. If I pop off into a skit of a joke that everyone goes, oh, that's so funny. But you're like, what do they have to do with the scene? And you'll see like comedians will do that in movies.

48:32You'll be like, that was a great skit, but that's on Saturday night live. That's not in this movie. That's not where your characters from. That's not who you are. That's not, I don't think in my opinion, great riffing or improvisation. And improvisation comes from knowing the text, the innate meaning of the text. And then what's the context of the relationship you're in? In the scene with. And then you can riff on that. There's many ways to say and do that. I mean, I get, sometimes I get what I call launch pad line. If they're confused, Wooderson character. He had one line. There were three lines in that, recently written for me.

49:10And one of the lines was, Wooderson hanging outside of a pool hall. Checked out a high school girl walk by his buddy hits him. He said, Wooderson, you got to cut that out there. You're going to go to jail. And Wooderson says, no, man, that's what I love about those high school girls, man. I get older, but they stay the same age. I'm like, who is that dude? Now, that's a launch pad line, meaning if that guy says that and means that, it's not an attitude. He means it. There's an inside competing on that guy. You know what that guy's eating. You know where you get, you know so much, right? Wolf Wall Street.

49:44There was one line in there where Leonardo DiCaprio's character asked my character, so what's the secret of this business? He goes cocaine and hookers. I'm like, that's a launch pad line. And I'm like, if this guy means that and he's not saying it to be cute, he's like, no, this is the deal. You can write a book on that guy. So that's where it comes from and then I'll try and have extra. I always want to be like, what if the director never deals cut? What would you say? What would you do? Well, I want to be able to give you another hour. Yeah. If I can. So you could stay in character and continue the story, even if it's not in the script.

50:24That's the goal. Yeah. That's the goal. I can't always go to, you know, there's sometimes you get dry and I'll send you going, that's all I got. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's in this, you know. But you have enough to keep going. Yeah.

50:38How much of a performance is the words you're saying and how much is something else? It's something else. I'm a wordsman. I love words.

50:53But the words are literature. When I do my job, when a performer does their job, now it's the bloodline. You want to see life, like what I say. But hey, it's written well and say that. What's the meaning? It's the content meaning of what? You might be able to look at someone and the line is said without saying it. That's the gut. That ideally in moving pictures? Yes. You get a Nike swoosh. You get a rolling stone tongue. You don't have to say anything. You know what it is. Just a look says it all. We don't need that paragraph because you got it with the look. You don't need that paragraph because you went, mm -hmm.

51:38And the way you said, the way you gave an affring, that said it. They'll send other words. How about body language? Important spot language. 100%. I mean, look, one of the things I remember having an instinct for early on was, I remember writing this in 1992 on Days Confused. I was like, as he moved with his head, his heart, or his... God, at the time I remember writing. He was moving with his head, his heart, his God. And I was like, oh, what is it? He's moving. He didn't go forward. It changed the whole walk. How person enters? Have to lay to other ones. Chess. Oh, they're heart first. Oh, they're proud.

52:13How other ones that may know they're inquisitive. They want to know. I want to know. This talking to you is different than this. It's very different than this. Very different. And I just went head heart, loin. Yeah. And all different characters. Right. And it was kicked back. And the townspells now were laid... So it's informing all about my neck, got loose. Yeah. Lazy fingers. But now when I come up here and when I was talking, it's a different... Just kind of moved up. And would you decide that before a scene of like, how you're going to move, where you're going to go in the scene? No, that's something that early on, I just...

52:57Because sometimes it's a combination of those three.

53:02I will, again, decide, where am I coming from, where am I going to? Because what I want to do is get caught behaving. You see scenes and movies where you're like, you can tell it's like, right when the scene starts, I think they went and action. Yeah. And go. It's like, no, you want to... We want to be going and when let him say action, you and I are ready to shoot and we just talk about that. And know what was that thing? And now we start to see. Yeah. Get caught. Yeah. Coming into a scene and get caught, flying out of a scene or rolling out of a scene. That's what I... That's my favorite act to see.

53:39And that's what I'm favorite acting to do when I can do that. That's what I try and do. So I don't make a choice. Those choices are already... Hopefully, those are out of my head now. Those are... Meaning, I'll have hundreds of pages of notes for a character going in. By the time it's time to shoot. Yeah. Time to prepare. You don't refer back to all those. Or I look at them and when I wrote them down, I was like, oh, this is genius. Don't forget this. This is so good. Extra star. Highlight. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's time I look out on the day. I'm like, well, duh. You know, that's the... That's the place I'd like to get to.

54:15How has being a father changed your life? Hmm.

54:22It's the only thing I ever knew I wanted to do. Really? Yep. Eight years old, man. I remember meeting my dad when he introduced me to his friends. Is that when you started practicing? No, I didn't start practicing till later. A few years later, I started practicing. But at eight years old, I remember a dad was a big surgeon, man. And please, and thank you, man, especially on the surgeon, man. And I remember him introducing me to these two guys that I later found out where his hitman. And I remember we had an Oak Forest Country Club parking lot. That had had lunch in the 19th hole there. And they had black suits on and shades.

55:04And the sun was in my eyes. I looked up. I shook their hand. Nice to meet you, sir. Nice to meet you, sir. And something happened in that moment, maybe it was the fact that they also looked like, you know, the men and black guys, but also something came up with that conversation that they had kids. And it hit me that every male that my dad had introduced me to had made me say that it's his sir to, they were fathers. And in that moment, I was like, oh, that's how you make it in life. That's what success is. And maybe again, it was the men and the suits with the shades, but I was like, wow. Oh, that's it.

55:45And that was always clear to me. I wanted to be a father. And for a while there, and I didn't know if I was ever going to find a woman that I was going to get married to. I kind of wanted that, but once I let myself off the hook, I believe in that town had to be. That's when I found her. Yeah. When she showed me, stopped looking. Yeah. You know. And so, became one. And, you know, the, the, the, our greatest, I, my feeling is what would be my most honorable export.

56:23Three. Confident. Children that go off and, and, and, and, and have a, have a character and know who they are and who they're not. Said, confident and considerate and, you know, I can go chase down and know what they love to do and do that for themselves. And what they do for themselves also happens to be good for other people as well. So that, that would be my, that would be my most honorable thing. If I could be, I have this, this dream that I, I don't share it with them, but my goal would be that later on in life when my kids in 30 years from now, that I can be counted as on one hand as one of the, they could say, my dad's one of my best friends.

57:09Oh, it's beautiful. That I could, I don't have to be the first one, the second or the third. On hand. Beautiful. That would be, because we, I think it's the, I think it's the, it's the living form of immortality. Yeah. We come a father and you're immortal. We come a parent. You are immortal. Yeah. The, the, the, it's past, it's going on. They will, there's so many lessons that I don't, I'm realizing that I'm not going to figure out in this life, but they may come to fruition by my eldest son's great, great grandchildren. Yeah. And I will be an author of that. Mm -hmm. That sense of immortalities in, in, in, in fatherhood is, is something that I'm really honored with.

57:53How do you think your wife's relationship to the kids is different than yours? Yeah.

58:02Um, she's more the day today. Yep. We have to watch that she doesn't become back, but I'm good cop. So I don't, that she's dealing with, hey, hey, don't do that. And, and I don't just show up the day going, yeah, hey, you know, kind of make sure our moral bottom line is, is solid. Her eyes are, we have a very similar moral bottom line. We are in the middle of a really fun time that any parent would know with teenagers of re -emphasizing, re -negotiating what that is because it's a whole new, they have so much access to more things in the, in the world. Real world, virtual world, real friends, social friends, media friends, online, offline, in real life, what matters to them.

58:42And there's dangers out there. Um, our coach, University of Texas, Mac Brown said, said it, told players, it goes, I will treat you all fairly, but I will not treat you all the same. I'm learning that kids. I got three, my three kids, there's three different individuals. The only thing after having kids, I realized that it surprised me was it was more DNA than I thought. That was much more environment. I'm like, no, they are who they are. Yeah. And I've got an older one who's extremely considerate. It's an old soul here and a teddy bear over here. I got a middle one who's just a girl daughter who's absolutely practical, calls the bullshit, sees it and just calls what it is.

59:18And she's also, you know, a great forgiver, you know, doesn't like that, let's not have a lot of confrontation. Come on, listen, I'll take a tie for you. Come on, let's just get past this. I got a young one who's just a bullet and super, super smart, strong. And I've learned with him that, you know, he's got a bull of a mind and just let even if you know he's saying something that gonna ask to do something, you know I'm saying no, let him get it out of his mouth, let him finish. So I've got to treat them all differently, yet what we call fairly. And so Camille and I, I think, hold walking a good line of that.

59:55The teenage years are becoming a new challenge for that because it's new for us too. And their world's different. So I can't completely go, well this is how it was for me. Because the world's changed that much. It's the way they have relationships and through social media and the way they move and things that are maybe okay now that just weren't even in the picture. It's a possibility then. So I'm, it's, I'm constantly going, what are the values that we want to maintain from what we learned and how we grew up and what we've grown up with that. Hey, they don't go away when the weather changes. You get those, we still got to take these through this.

1:00:37I know it's a whole new game, you're doing things differently, but you, those values are not interchangeable. We've got to stick with those. And that's what we're trying to stick to. And we're hurting our clothes on that. We're, we're close on that. I'm probably a little more, well, go find out than she is. Yeah. And there's a, you know, maybe mother's protection that's in there for, and I'm like, well, I'm right now on this time, go free play. Go, go find out. Yeah. Go get brews, go break the arm, go, go figure out, go learn the consequence. The experiences are where we'll remember that. I don't want to, but don't want to protect them too much at the same time.

1:01:16You know, don't want to send them into stupid situations. I think parenting a lot of it is, when do we, our kids are going to climb a tree. They're going to get out on all of them. The kids up in that limb right there. You're like, he falls. He, well, he's got a good, you got nice grass there. He's probably not going to break something, but we might, Bruce, well, let him climb. Yeah. If I go, no, no, no, no, no, no. Hey! Kids aren't afraid to fall. They're afraid to hide till they fall. Right? But now, mind you, come out here and we got one at the top of that tree, and it's right over the table, and you're like, oh shit.

1:01:53I don't want to startle them by the moment, say, hey, buddy, come on, just take your time. Come on down to the trunk. When do you tell them to come down from the tree and when do you say, now if you fall from there, that'd be a good fall for you. And I don't want to say it too early. I think some of us say it too early, and then kids are all for us. They're afraid to hide. They're afraid to go try things. And then all of a sudden, they don't wanna stay too late because the first time they get in trouble, they're in jail or worse. You know, so it's trying to. Did you ever have those boundaries as a kid?

1:02:20Did anyone tell you don't climb the tree, watch out, that's dangerous? My parents would let me climb pretty damn high. And stay pretty dog on calm while I was up there where most parents would be like, you see this? Anything that's cause they trusted you, what do you think was going on with them? My family's very much always been, you know, what tickles us, may bruise others.

1:02:50We, you know, no one got, you can get too excited, you can't get overly excited about it, or alarmed about a good scar. You're like, that's good one. You got a story now too. And you remember that, you learned it. So there was a leash. There we had our dooth and don'ts. Here the rules were going to, we expect you to follow, but, you know, go, if you didn't get out, if you didn't hustle, if you didn't go, for effort was our thing. That's my dad's thing. It's kind of my thing with my kids now. Now, you know what I mean? I'm not telling you you got to be straight A's, I'm not telling you you got to win this or be the best.

1:03:29I'm just saying, I need a hundred percent effort, man. You do your best, that's all that matters. Yeah, just do it. And it doesn't matter what anyone else is doing. Right. And then, if you win, great. Look at me and go, I had something to do with that. You lose, you look at me and go, I had something to do with that, but I don't regret. Yeah. Going, I kind of have to ask you, I kind of thudged that one. I didn't really show up. Which is, my worst, I hate that feeling. Yeah. Of leaving something going, I didn't do your best. Yeah. I don't want to prepare it. I, and I've embarrassed myself on that too.

1:04:01I've showed up times, not as prepared as I should have been, tried to wing it and failed. Yeah. And horrible feeling. Yeah. But if I, if I, you know, feel like I'm doing my best, if I don't lose, I can be pissed, but I can also then go, well, dude, there you dance, okay, that's how it lies. Yeah. What else are we going to do? Exactly. Yeah.

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1:06:03You work with so many different directors. Tell me about the different styles. The best thing to direct, or the best directors have really created ways of saying this one word. Yes. Yes. Now, the best directors have never say the word no. No stops that creative process. It's sure you know that you do that as a producer. I'm guessing. Just add on to it. Now I can rearrange it. Yeah, we're talking and I'm coming. Yeah, and what about if in all of a sudden, the every actor wants to believe that the idea was ours. And every great director knows that, and so makes us feel like it's ours. Even if the PA just came up and said, try this.

1:06:53Yeah, you know what I mean? The best sets, you steal from each other. And you're honored to be stolen from. Because you're there, talk free, it doesn't matter what comes from. And you feel like it's your idea. And every actor thinks that movies are back then. Amen. Yes, even if you had one part and one role, when you asked someone actually, that movie, that's your movie. You tell them it's your movie, man. And here's why. You're the center of that. You want to very action to believe that. It's a wonderful thing.

1:07:26I've worked with one director who was, had that shot list, and was prepared for that shot list, and had the money to shoot every single shot and every single scene, wide, mediums, close -ups, this, and shot every scene. Yep. It's not that fun. He was going to make the movie an editing room. With a basic set of shot. He didn't have a point of view of each scene. He put together something nice. It connected the dots. OK, but I didn't feel life. I didn't feel any magic. You got someone on the other screen like a link later. Yeah. Yeah. It's got opinions. Yeah, well, you know, what if, you know, you think what are some be interested in the intellectual red -headed girl?

1:08:13Well, you know, I mean, it's probably been with the typical objects, the cheerleaders and stuff. You think you'd like the intellectual red -headed girl? Yeah, he likes her kind of sick. Cool, man. Well, this is a cheetah. She's sitting over here in the car, Friday night. Maybe like, she's got her nerds in the back seat. I don't know. Maybe like, you think what are some like me pull up trying to pick her up? Yeah. Once you did? Yeah. You're the next thing you know. That's the, just kind of, what if, you know, never said here's what I think you, here's what I want you to do. You give the act of the chance to go, yeah.

1:08:43Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like that. Yeah, great. When, when try that? Yeah. Yeah. Now I've got, now I've got ownership. Yeah. I thought it was my idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Feel like it's my idea. Yeah. You gave it to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you let me go, yeah. Yeah. And now you want me to go into that scene, have it ownership. Yeah. So you're not being told what to do? Nobody likes me told what to do. That's true. That's the first thing I tell the director. I said, I'm so easy to direct. Just don't tell me what to do. Yeah. Yeah. Nobody likes to be told what to do. That's it. Nobody. Yeah. You know, that's the secret of the universe.

1:09:20Learning that with parenting too. Rule number one. Nobody likes to be told what to do. Do you want to, if you want to mess up and call something a mandate? People are running. We want to choice and we want to believe it's ours. If you want to do something and someone mandates that you won't do it. Yeah, yes. Go coyote the opposite. Exactly. Exactly. You read a script, you imagine a movie, and then you get to make them and you see it. Yeah. How much change happens? A lot. I've got a class that I have a professor in the university of Texas called script to screen. I started it ten years ago. It's about that exact thing.

1:09:56I looked up fifteen years ago and I was like, damn, the movies, the final product on the screen is so different from the original script. What's that process? Here's the book that's almost based on. They haven't seen the film. They read it. They all get up and declare what movie do you see in there? Then we hand in the first script. Whoa, where's this storyline go? Hey, okay, let's talk about it. Then we hand in the next script. Whoa, where's so and so go? And then the end of the next script. Whoa, what happened to my favorite in -scene, that action sequence at the end? Yeah. Well, then we come back and tell them.

1:10:29And those are all real examples. Real examples. It's a real book. Yeah. There's a first script, there's a second script, there's a third script. And then we show them the movie. And then you show them the movie. And then we come in and talk to them about what do you see how it's giving us? Yeah. We've been doing all the mind. We've done mud a few times. We've done dazed. We've done free -stated Jones. We've done the gentleman. We're about to do this when I'm done just in Paradise. We've done about eight of my movies. Have you ever directed? Have. How's that experience?

1:10:59I don't particularly enjoy, what I've directed, I've also acted in. Yeah. And I don't particularly enjoy changing hats. Yeah. The director needs to be directing without acting. Or you prefer acting. I prefer acting. I like being the subject. Yeah. I like having a singular obsession. Let me handle my man. That's it. I don't want to consider how the whole ship is sailing and we're navigating. I like it. It's just a lot. I don't like being the director has to be objective. Where's this whole thing going? I like going. Let me handle this lane. Let me dominate this. Show some real life. Let it be fire.

1:11:35And you catch it. That's a good joke. Have you played any known real life characters or only fictional characters? We're playing some known real life characters. How's that different?

1:11:50Well, it comes with the, I always feel a certain sense of responsibility. Yeah.

1:11:57And I've tried different ways. Early on, I remember I tried to almost emulate and really studied the person's addiction and I don't think that was the right way to go about it actually. I then came and I've done a few where it's big. Just get the spirit. Don't be worried about them. Get hung up on the details of people all the time. Come up with, oh, this person should play this character in history because they look like them. Let's do this. You're like, we don't really care how much they look alike. What we want is the best act for the role. I can't, but I look just like him. So what? Give me a good example.

1:12:40Dallas Byers Club, Ron Woodruff, real life character. I've got hours and hours of footage of him and tapes. I'm listening and I know a story and you know, here's attitude. But when I went to go see his mother and his sister outside of Dallas, right as I got in the car to leave after a three hour hang. They came out to have to win our role and I said, yeah, what's up to go, hey, we have Ron's diary. That'd be helpful. I want. Yeah, if I'm not trespassing and I'm not pleased, give me the diary. It's what I get from the diary. Nothing that's in the script written, but what do I get? I get a, I see a story about a guy who on Sunday night is ironing his shirt, putting new AA batteries in his pager because tomorrow morning at 7 a .m., he's going to drive 36 miles over to Kingwood, Texas and hook up the speakers for the call your family.

1:13:48It's going to cost him $12 for the wire to hook up the speakers. It's going to cost him about $8 for the gas to get there. He's going to charge him $40, which is less than the best, than the, than the store company would charge 80, but he's going to do a good job. He's going to do it for half the price. But he's only going to net about $10, $15 on the day of the work. But you know what? It's going to work for me because they'll, they'll, they'll get a referral and I'll go to another. So then wake up. He's got a shirt on. He's going out the door. His pager goes off. Oh, we're canceling that script.

1:14:22And we decided to go with Best Buy to hook him up because they're closer and, and, and they got a warranty. To a guy who now, whose day turned into lost its purpose, who had his iron shirt, who then said, went back in the house and then kind of all of a sudden noon shows up. And besides, well, I'm going to go for a drive. I'm going to go to Sonic. So I like that. Maybe Susie Mays working there and she's kind of cute. Plus when I order a single cheeseburger, she gives me a double with jalapenos for the same price. Susie May is there. Hey, when you get off, I'm smoking joint. End up at the days in, room 16.

1:15:04Shag up, getting high. The week turns into partying and sort of drifting. Until next week can where I'm going to do it again and something falls through. So you saw this guy with, that would have, he was trying, he was setting himself up and then it wouldn't go, wouldn't go the way planned it and he just sort of just in loses way into the week and it happened week over week and he got lost. What did that tell me? I got a dreamer who just couldn't, couldn't follow, never followed through. Yeah. Had some shitty luck but kind of just, I had great ideas but would never have the confidence to trademark him or pat him or follow through or engineer him.

1:15:45That, tell me a lot about who the guy is, none of that is in the script. Yeah. But how that guy feels more than the script. What's he doing when he's, when he's alone? How's he thinking? He's looking over the horizon, he's never going to go there. Yeah. There's, there's a lot of humanity in that guy. Yeah. And I get that from his diary, not from how does that guy follow. So lucky that the diary was available. Amazing. Yeah. And that they had to, they would give it to you. Yeah. It was beautiful. Do you gamble? Yeah. Tell me about it. I gamble enough as I say to buy a ticket to the game. I don't gamble too, I don't spend too much.

1:16:29I'll bet a hundred dollars on games and what it does is it's enough for me to be interested in watching. That's enough for me to go when they win, I go, I knew it. It's enough for me to go when they throw a flag and it should be a flag to get off the couch, get pissed at the ref and go, what are you doing? So I bought myself three, I was of entertainment value to being gazed with the game. And like every gambler, if I go seven and one, I'm a fortune teller. I knew it. See, I was thinking, and when I go one and seven, something was off of them, not me. It's rigged. It's rigged. And all of that already is worth that hundred dollars when it lose to me.

1:17:11Are you superstitious?

1:17:15I don't think I'm as superstitious as I ought to be. I think I like to be more superstitious.

1:17:23I'm a thinker, I love logic and reason. At the same time, you know, you should about being right. Especially when you're talking to somebody, you know what I mean? I like to find my rhyme from the reason now. Like I like to find my art acting from real life. I like to measure what's the practicals that we can measure. What's the science of our situation to then find the art? So that's where I go conservatively, liberally, as I was talking about earlier. I've had plenty of what are obviously, you know, per lack of a better word, coincidences or things have been invisible. I'm like, do you know that blue bird was coming there?

1:18:14I've had plenty of those. You're like, you don't know that, that math adds up in hindsight. You look and you go, connect those dots. Yeah. That mouse going on. Yeah. That we don't understand. Bigger than us. Yes. And things crossed. And that red light I hit that held me back 30 more seconds is why I ran into her because she was walking about that exact time. And if I had been 15 seconds earlier, I would have missed and look at what. You know, things that I'm going on. Okay. I'm not part of that math. You know what I mean? So if that's superstitions or coincidences or fate or divinity and or intervening.

1:18:55Yeah, I believe in it. The thing is with it from the way I go, I go with it. I do have to watch and I wish, I think some people have to watch. Even if people had a very empathic. If you're looking for the superstition, it can be trouble because you start to create.

1:19:19It's like, you know, there's no rhyme to that. It's a little bit like this. The masseuse who is saying, my shoulder needs work, right? The masseuse goes like, you know, is it because you're not going to get more in touch with your feminine side or what's your horse go? No, I actually, a car ran into me yesterday. I mean, actually that's an injury that happened. So we have to watch looking for. If we're looking for those synapses, those were reason rhymes and connections. And that's what ours do. We associate. But if we're hunting, like you said earlier when I said found Camilla when I quit looking for it, if we're looking for the associations.

1:20:04I think they back up. I think the angels back up and go, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's not, you know, we'll land and it'll be obvious. But don't be trying to make too many. In life can get very noisy and clumsy and frustrating, confusing if we're associating too much. Like I, it's why I, it's why I don't like the new weed. Oh man. Too strong. It's too many associations. I'm seeing art in everything. And if you're seeing art in everything, you're not seeing any art at all. If every moment is so significant, none of it has significance. And that's why it's like digits to subplots can become unmanageable.

1:20:45And subplots become unmanageable. You're like, you're missing the main vein. So I don't think those superstitions are in those divine truth land when we're looking at them and trying to create them. And it's a fine line to walk about how to be aware, listen and notice. But yet not try and make them. Because we can make false ones and that can be illusions. Which you're not, we can make us mad. Literally. What's the most beautiful place you've ever been? Mali Africa. Tell me about it. So I had a recurring wet dream.

1:21:26And two things were true in the dream. I was floating down a river and their African tribe has been down the left cliff that went in down the river into infinity. And so the first time I had it, I woke up, no, math doesn't add up for that being a wet dream. The elements didn't tip weren't the typical thing. They're more of a nightmare for anything. And then I had it again five years later. I was like, oh, I had the same dream. It's the second time I got a chase has dreamed of. What do I know? I got a river and I got African tribesmen. So I thought the river, the river and my mind was the Amazon.

1:22:04So I ended up going, okay, 21 day trip, I'm going to the Amazon. I'm going to go float the Amazon. I did it. I met the brown skin people, the wet eyes, the beautiful souls they have and Peru and everything and had a great trip. I thought, okay, I finished it. Five years later, I had the same dream again. So I said, what's the other thing I know? The African tribe's been. Oh, I got to go to Africa. Where do I go? I don't know where to go. In Africa, it's my big continent. I'm sitting in my hotel in Dublin one night at Morris, no hotel. I'm listening to one of my favorite musicians, Ali Farkature.

1:22:32The African blues man. I'm like, oh, where's Ali from? I go look in the liner notes, Nia Funke. I said, I'm going to go find Ali. That'll be my point. And I'll go there and see what the trip takes me. I find him day four. Wow. You've never met him before. Never met him before. Yeah. Get over there, find somebody who can take with me. Take a boat, Nia Funke can speak Bambara and we find him. Have lunch with him, talk with him, and now I'm getting the boat we've said goodbye. It's the afternoon of day four. I'm like, well, where now? And I had a guy that was like, hey, you ever been to the Bangeagar where the dog on the live, we should go.

1:23:06You would like this. You will remember this. And so for the next 18 days, we, high, 15 all the day, stayed with family, slept on the roofs. It was the most innocent, pure, but strong place that ever been. And I felt like I've gone literally home. I felt as at home there with them. Didn't speak language. Yeah. Didn't need to. Yeah. But I felt like you belonged. 100%. I knew I'd been there before too. And they knew I'd been there before. Yeah. And, you know, we're little things, you know. We had this talisman and we were on this place called Bangematu and the east of my guide had this beautiful talisman and there's a trunk of a tree that was cut off.

1:23:46It's like there's a bit of a tabletop and he set the talisman like that. I knew it. That's what I was hanging over. And I went over and scooted it. It was what you do this, Devda. And I said, oh, I just don't know what that fight goes. This is Africa. Elephant could run by. Shake the ground. That never moved. Wow. Oh, yeah. They're right. This is all hold. Not true. This is not. The mountains over there don't have two. They're all the tips. They've been flattened, you know. So, I learned so many lessons over there. They're very proverbial. There's nothing wispy about their proverbs. They're like, you know, do not adult.

1:24:33If you adult, the same thing will happen to you in your own bed. They always have this at the end. It's like a fire and brimstone. Wow. And it's not about the right and wrong. It's about, do you understand? Whoa. Okay. You know, everything's proper nouns. You know, rules. And I just like the clarity of that. And they were so loving the sense of, probably a sense of humor. Yeah. Talk about, I remember one of my friends that I met over there, I mean, yeah, he had a bum, he had a bum hip. And so he walked, he walked like that. Right? And a French doctor, a couple had come over and said, hey, we like you a lot.

1:25:22We're going to take you. We're going to fly you. In fact, the French wing didn't do a surgery on your hip. He was all excited about this. And he left us to go take that flight. And after any showed back up. And when I go what happened? And he goes, I got to the airport. And I said, it hit me that this is how I was born. It's not for me to change it. Yeah. This is how I walk. Yes. I don't want to change it. Yeah. That sort of non -sentimentality, the sort of, whoa. Yeah, acceptance. Whoa, but strong acceptance. And they're very sensitive people. Yeah. But yet they deal with, they play, you play it as it lays.

1:26:16I remember hearing on that second time, I went back again, a fourth time, the second time back to Molly, and found Olly again at that festival, our dessert. You know, the festival way out in the middle of the desert. You can find it. You will be here for three days. And generators are all out in the middle of the desert. And I find on the last night, I find, I'm walking around camp. And I hear Olly's drinks. And I go look under the tent, and there's Olly playing guitar, the little campfire. There's a French journalist, and the village, hermaphrodite. This young boy who had large breasts on one side, but also Tesco's, but fully naked, was crawling all over Olly as he played.

1:27:01Just a dooring. And Olly's playing the song. And what I noticed over there, and they saw this in many circumstances, you don't shoe the inconvenience. You don't run someone off stage. Hey, I need my space. No, you played this song as it has never been played before, because you have the village from afrodite and crawling all over you, making you play out of tune. That's the original tune. And it will only be played once. And that's, you play it as it lays. There was a beauty to that that they don't, they're not, you, anything that happens. I mean, you run over an animal on the road, and you're having a conversation.

1:27:42You didn't mean to hit the animal, bam, you hit the animal. They just pull over and keep the conversation going. And you and I both get out and go get the animal, continue the conversation, go put it back in the truck, and we're back, hopefully, drive off. They don't stop, there's nothing. Oh my god, what just happened? It's all you, you play it, as it lays. So the beauty in that, the way they, the way they, the poetry they go through life with. Sounds beautiful.

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1:29:31You think of yourself as sensitive? Yes. In what way? Describe it.

1:29:42I hear a lot of things. And I think I listened. Maybe I listened to too many things. No, again, deciphering which one is to listen to, what not to. Sometimes I wish I was less sensitive. Be nice to just sit on a baseline for that any percussion.

1:30:11When you say you hear things that people say or something else. No, the else. The else. The stuff that's not words. You're tuned into something. That'd be way to say it. Yes. You have any rituals on the set?

1:30:33Yes. I find every, you know, I make a soundtrack for every role. Then I have certain songs for certain scenes. You make it in advance? Yeah. And it's a rhythm, it's a rhythm thing. It helps me how I'm interested in how I come in.

1:30:58And I like to place some skins or play body. And I'll come in with rhythms, precincts, and get a hum or a whistle. And by the time I'm on scene, I'm doing a version of a Dejan road, the song that's for the scene, but I'm doing it in a ditty. Whether it's a pat, whether it's me.

1:31:22And I want to get out of my head. I'm getting out of my head. It's not about logic. Now about rhyme. We're all on rhyme now. That's a pace of addiction. That's a pace of how I'm looking. That's what I do before scenes. I find a certain type of a ditty of the music that is for that scene before you see. Tell me about your relationship to music in general. I take music over video or films any day if we could just have one. I mean, growing up, and even now, it's one of the beautiful things about me. Sometimes the lyrics and that lead singer, they're talking to you. They wrote that for you. How did they know?

1:32:17They're smart. Good at what they do, too. Other times it's an interesting look. I don't know that. Not me, but thanks for letting me in to that story. Is it always lyrics? Is the lyrics the thing that pulls you in? It's not always lyrics. But sometimes growing up, washing my car on Sunday, if you get it shined up for going to school on Monday, a couple of coolers lights in the driveway, listening to Mel and Camp. Pete Cousins. He was like, dude, that's America. He got four mice since patriotism.

1:33:04Lose some Jubilee. Beautiful album, he made. That race relations and relationships in the world and America. Ah, the love stories in that that are not typical.

1:33:19Formed a lot of, a lot of those times I was like, oh, you're reading my mail, man. How'd you know? Thank you. Then I've got other people like Ali Farkhturi, which is a, he's speaking Bambara. I don't know what he's talking about. So I hear a song like I do. Then I down. Down, down, down, down, down, down, down, down. Beautiful love song. I've heard this song. Oh, my gosh. This is a romance. This is about a man and a woman. It's a love story. One night after the list of the song for three years, I decided to look at the liner note. And the liner note say, trust in your fellow man. You cannot trust someone else until you trust yourself.

1:34:05I'm like, well, it is a love story, but it's not the love story I thought it was. Because I didn't know the lyrics. Yeah. So I'm now a propped, but I was in, but it still was a love story. Yeah. So I love that sort of thing about not hearing or why like certain French music. I like some French grooves because I like, I love this French language. And when I can, I don't know what they're talking about. And I kind of like not knowing what the talking about. So it's not always about the specific lyric as much as it's about the feel. And then, you know, you have those, I've had it. Many thousands of other people have had it.

1:34:41But I mean, you know, I had that summer with Lori Williams. With the top off the Jeep coming back after a great night where I first heard Don Hamley summer 69. And I was like, ah, dude, I remember where I was. I smell it right now. And then he's talking about the guy to, you know, teetop down to the top. So I'm like, yeah, I do. And I do have my sunglasses on. How'd you know? So you remember that. You hear the first two chords of certain songs. And you're like, takes you right back. You know, it's, it's, it's music's great, great marketing. I'm all marketing tool. I'm always interested how resorts and stuff and, and, and stores of retail are very smart with playing the music that whatever their demographic was.

1:35:34Play the music. That was hot when they were 18. So it takes them back to a youthful place, even subliminally, to a youthful place where they felt young and free in the most barrel. Right? It's very good marketing tool, but it's also very comforting. And now, you know, I'm going through my kids are pretty musical, especially Levi and I elders. And I'm having that time where he's now coming back to me going, Dad, check this out. I'm like, going, yeah, I played that for eight years ago. And when you kind of brushed by it, and I, you're just coming out, coming at me now with whole notes. Yeah, amazing.

1:36:11You know, coming at me with, you know, the police. Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah, man. Yeah. All right. When you leave the set, do you take the character with you or can you leave the character on the set? So, characters always with me. I mean, my wife's jokingly says I'm sleeping with the different man. She doesn't literally mean it, but I come home. I'm going to talk, I'm going to talk about the same things, but differently. Yeah. If I'm playing, look, Ron Wood of Dowspires Club. The guy was clinically trying to survive on every thing. I mean, things were tight. There was no room for error. There was no room for being loose.

1:36:58I mean, this is what, so I was very clinical at home. Even at home. Yeah, but about the same things we'd be, but I was a little more like Camilla would come to me at the class. Why, I'm going to just take the edges off. Yeah, yeah. Gold. The guy was a consumer of food and lust and sex and money. Oh, man, I was so much fun in the house. I'm talking the same things, but I was like, hell yeah, milkshake's on a Wednesday night. You want to do pizza again? Yeah, let's do too. I was, yes, I was captain fun. Talking about the same things, but the founders were like, man, you're just like it's Saturday every day.

1:37:37Because I'm playing the guy that's Saturday every day. So that's a vacation. It was a Saturday every day. Still took care of the stuff that needs to be taken care of. I didn't become like your response, but I was just like a yes guy though. Talking about the same things we would talk about as a family. Yeah. So I'm just tabbing into that part of me that I'm, that I'm, got the HKZ turned up on the frequency of that character and the character I'm playing. Have the characters ever changed you beyond? Tell me about that.

1:38:12The effect that some movies, one movie is probably more so than characters for me.

1:38:23Contact me and Jody Foster, Bob's next direct. She's the subliever in science. I'm the believer in God. It's a story about where to those two contradict each other and where to they cross. Sitting down with Carl Sagan talking about the structure of the universe. Did you get to do that? Yeah. I'm amazing. I got to get three hours, three hours listening to him. Amazing. It was awesome. I walk away from that going, wow. God's backyard is a whole lot bigger than I thought. It expanded my, you know, thought I was here on Earth, center of the universe. No, you're about the tip of the five top left corner on the five on a clock this big.

1:39:06And this is one galaxy and there's millions and there's even millions of universes. Whoa. Okay, that humbling feeling. We are Marshall. We go shoot that. It's about the 1971 plane crash, true story in these football team and a lot of their coaches die on this plane crash. There's survivors that have survivor guilt because I was supposed to be on the plane. But when I saw you show up, I said, no, you take it. I'll drive back in the plane crash. We shot into town. Hollywood comes to Huntington, West Virginia. Well, they were scared. They were scared. They were also, everybody in that town was connected somehow related to somebody on that crash.

1:39:47And here comes Hollywood to tell their story. And they're looking at us like, don't you fuck us, man. Yeah. Don't you fuck us. Yeah. They'll make us look. Yeah. McGee, the director, did a great thing. Open set. Anywhere from the town once comes set. I'll give you a script. Great. All of a sudden they slowly started coming out of the woods and the woodwork, coming around, hanging around. And it was a cathartic movie for them. Yeah. After it came out and we did our best to tell it and get the, tell the spirit of it, right? It didn't take advantage of any of them. So to see how a movie can affect a people, a place, a community.

1:40:25To see how it sometimes affect me as a character, my own perspective. Like it did with Palmer Johnson contact. I always try and take some lesson from it. I mean, it dissipates somewhat because when I'm playing the role, that's, there's certain literal beliefs. I'm in that vacuum. Yeah. But it sounds like you grow from it. When it went, on the goblins I do. Look, I've gone, done somewhere. I'm like, dude, you just connected the dots. I don't know how I grew from that. I think anything I was trying to, couldn't wait to get out. We've ever asked to do something on a movie that you refuse to do. Yeah.

1:41:01Like what? Why? Why on my character? Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's certain things where, where, where you, you're like the character would never do that. But I'm not doing it. No. You're protective of your character. It's my job. It's my job. And if I lie, meaning I was talking earlier about that, into the second act, into the third act, is when writers usually get in a pinch, oh, I've got to land this plane. Yeah. So, a lot of times they'll give the main character a convenient malaprop of their own character. So, they can screw up. So, somebody else can come in and we can start to finish this movie.

1:41:43And I look at it, go. You guys do it. Bullshit, bro. Would never do that. Yeah. Oh, come on. It was like, that ain't on me. Yeah. And I'm gonna let you know before we're in production. I know we don't shoot this for two months, but we got to ride our way out of this, because I'm not doing it. If you want to get that to someone else, go right ahead. But when I suggest, let's ride our way out of this smartly. Yeah, you could better. Yeah. Because, that, I get it. It's tough, but we got to figure it out another way, because it works. I'm not saying that, because I say that, they don't come back at you, the writer, and go, I can't believe, or you, the studio.

1:42:15They're going like, what the fuck's going on? I hate doing it. Yeah. What was that, was bullshit. Yeah. He wouldn't have done that. Yeah. And that's on me. Yeah, yeah. So I'm not, I'm not taking that. So to allow my man, no, I can't, I can't, I can't do that. That's really the only time I use can't. Yeah. The word can't, like, now I can't do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. What's the most fun part of your job? The daily making. I'm probably as happy and as loose and relaxed and as in tune and alive when I'm the daily making. Of the movie. What's your least favorite? Least favorite. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

1:43:00Well, the hardest, the work is in the prep. When I'm, if I've done the work on the prep, that's when I'm sleepless nights, that's when I'm grindin' in and I'm, I'm lookin' under all, everything is many ways that I can. I've done enough, I've done it in other ways, kinda look at this. And then when it go to work, that's play. I'll let you get down, okay. Trust you got it. And that's fun. The ending of a movie, if I felt good about it and experience is good, it's always kinda nice. I feel like I deserve this break. I feel like I deserve this long drive home. I feel like I deserve to sleepin' in tomorrow.

1:43:34I feel like I deserve another drink if I want on. I feel like we're gonna sit back and go, yeah, man. I feel like I laid something down truth. That feels good. The hardest part though is that next three weeks. I always like say this. I mean, I've had a structured day, a character, now I'm at home. What am I supposed to do? Like I said, I walk into the bathroom, forgot I need to take a piss. And I'm like, what are you doing? Oh yeah, I can, so my wife helps me. We're gonna set up some simple things. Here you go. We're gonna pad the walls a little bit. Just a little padding, let's just consider it ease back in, because that's slowly going, and then I'm back in the groove.

1:44:11But it's a little like this for a few weeks afterwards. What are your obsessions outside of work? Well, I just found one three years ago. Ten years. First time I've ever had in 25 years. And I love it. I cannot get enough of it. What would you play? As often as I can. Wherever I go, I try to go four or five times a week. If I can. I'm not makin' it five times a week, but everywhere I go, I'm gonna find a problem. I'll go for two hours. And my son's into it now. So it's a father something we're doing. And I'm eight up with it. What do you think it is about tennis? Well, one, I can, I'm at the level now where, when I do it well, I know what I'm doing.

1:44:51Yeah. And like, when I do it wrong, I know what I'm doing. So I can measure, I feel it. I know immediately when I miss a shot, I want to make shot, what I did right or wrong. The second thing is, the feeling is infinite. I'll never, I know enough of that now. Now if I watch the pros play, I am in all. So to understand the game enough to be in all of them. To see what the hell go, why they're so great and go, wow. I don't have to be that, but wow. The ceiling. Are you playing to winner or you're playing to play? I mostly play to play, but I've started to play more points and matches now. And when I'm doing that, I'm playing to win.

1:45:33Tell me about three turning points in your career. My career? Yeah. Okay.

1:45:44Well, the first one is how the career started. I walked on the right bar the right time. And that really happened that way. That really happened. That was it. That was it. The bar tender, I went to that bar because that guy was in film school with me and he gave me free drinks. He says there's a guy at the bar who's a producer in town. I go down and introduce myself. Four hours later, that guy and I are drunk, get kicked out. All the way home. He's getting right with me and the taxi back to my place to drop off. He pulls out of joints. He says, you're everything acting. And I was in a middle -eyed commercial about that long because I might be right for this part.

1:46:15Come on down to this, you're just up up up. I went down 9th or 9th or the next one. That was Stays and Fuse. I read for the role and got it and three lines turned to three weeks for it. Right bar, right time. Second one would be. And it's the combination. I did an independent, where it's a time where I was not getting a lot of jobs. And I got hired for this role. And my idea was, oh, I've been studying too much. I got to get out of my head. I got to go back and do it how I did it earlier. Days confused. I show up. I'm just my man. Tell me what to do. Hey, you think you want to pick up the red and white and show girl?

1:46:51Go do it. Let's shoot it. I didn't read the script. I said, I'd give you the situation. I'll go handle it as my man, man, man, would. Well, I show up on the day of the set after getting this bright idea. And right before about to go, I didn't get a little nervous. I said, let me see some sides just to see. And if my thinking was if they're written well, I'll go, well, obviously that's what I'd say. And if it's not written well, I just do what I want. I go page one. Page two, page three, page four. And I was done. I go. Can I get 12 minutes? Because it was a four -page monologue. Rick. In Spanish.

1:47:31No. Yes. Really. And I mean the sweat trick goes down my back and I'm like, oh, shit. So I got so embarrassed. Yeah. Yeah. That I got up for that afterwards. I got called in to meet with Joel Schumacher, director of a time to kill. And we were talking about the, I think it's Billy Lee Cobb. The role keeper Sutherland ended up playing as a, it was a clan member. And that's the role that Joel wanted me for. But I had not only read the script, I read the book. And I'm like, the dude I like is Jake Braganza, the lead. I'm going to get that in, in this meeting. Yeah. I remember I was wearing sleeveless melon camp shirt.

1:48:10Yeah. Smoke of cigarettes at the time. And we were talking to Joel. It was like, you'll be great in this part. And I said, yeah, I know guys like that, that Billy Lee Cobb. I met a few of them. I know they are. And I was like, well, who's playing the role, Jake Braganza? He goes, I don't know, who do you think should? And I remember going, I think I should. And he goes, maha ha ha ha, great idea. But it's never going to happen. But it planned the scene. Yeah. Because they went down, they had trouble casting over the next two months. Yeah. Sandra Bullock comes out while you were sleeping. All of a sudden, she was already in the third role.

1:48:45Yeah. But she can green light a movie. Yeah. Now. Yeah. Oh, the studio's got a little leverage. Maybe we can consider an unknown. He calls me in for a read on it. It's a Valentine's Day. And he called me in. It was on Fairfax. Not in a studio a lot. I remember him saying they were doing it on Fairfax on a Sunday, Valentine's Day, because no matter how well you do, you're probably not going to get the job. And I don't want it to go on your record as you tried and failed. Yeah. So, looking after me. Yeah. And I read, I get it. Amazing. I would have never had a chance to get it if I wouldn't have said in that meeting.

1:49:18Yeah. You've planted. I think I should. Yeah, because you would have never thought of you. Right. Why would he? Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. A third fun one. Is a funny one. It's a rain of fire. Put a dragon slayer. And I just finished film. And the day after I finished film, I shaved my head. I don't know if you've ever shaved your head. I have not. You shave your head for the first time. Yeah. It's not usually pretty. And the thing is, yeah. It's stark white. I had scarred and it didn't know. Some plumps. It's, it's, it's, it's, and pop right to you. Got a picture of me done next day on the streets.

1:49:53And it didn't look very, well, the producers see this. And I also said, I get this note saying, you did not shave your head. I know this is a prosthetic. And you were trying to prank us. I know you didn't shave your head. And if you did shave your head, this could be bad. For your karma. And when that red on that note, and I'm not going to say the author, bad for your karma. And I took that personal. I was like, oh, these are, these are fighting words. You don't, you don't challenge someone's karma. You don't step out of bounds and a written handwritten note that this is bad for you. Well, the idea that they control your karma is a wild idea.

1:50:32And, and the idea that that's an indirect threat. Yeah. Because I shaved my head. So I'm like, okay. I understand Hollywood's a game. Let me play this game. I get it. They want me to kind of, hey, with this nice flowing loss for the role. But my guys got a shaved head. These dragons are said, what I'm going to do. I said, who's, I know what they're doing. They're going like, girls aren't going to like this. Then I got to know them like the shaved head. I said, all right, I got a plan. I'll send a shout to them. Marmo. I get in there. So 10 days. I went to a pool every day. That's a baby all on it.

1:51:03Hair got nice and tan. Man, my beard got blonde. And I went and bought a bad ass beautiful Hugo Boss blue suit. And there was a big Hollywood party coming up on Friday night. And I said, I'm going to show up to that looking high and tight baby. I said, I look good and I want them in shape. And I'm just a suit. Yeah. Like, there'll be pictures. Yeah. It'll get around back to those studios. And then it's going to be some secretary who'll go, oh, I think he looks handsome. And I'll send them a bit. You'll be good for your karma. Well, sure. Yeah. The next two, it came out to have picture of the tabloids.

1:51:43Plus it got back in this in this in the Hollywood system. And I got a call on a Tuesday evening. We love the shaved head. Great character choice. Amazing. Good for my karma. But I played, I twisted the game. I said, I'm going to play, I'm going to play the game with you here. And I remember deliberately going, get a nice suit, bro. Look sharp. Yeah. Get tan. Make this go look a little bit better and get out there. And it worked. It's good. I think I would have lost the job. I think they may have made. They're about to fire me. And I wanted to roll. Yeah. Do you think the pressure makes you better or it undermines you?

1:52:25Better. But pressure is different from tension. Okay. Describe. What's the difference? Tension to actors worst enemy when you're acting. You don't want tension. But pressure.

1:52:42Oh, I'm going further. I'm going deeper. I'm going wider. I will do more of what I need to do to perform as well as again. I will do more of what I need to do so that I have less tension on the day when I'm in the game. I will study the playbook more in depth so I can more easily call on audible when it's live. The pressure though that I put on myself once starting with, I don't want to be embarrassed. Yeah. Two. I want to do, want to do well. Absolutely. Three. I want you to go. Yeah. What we're talking about. I want it to translate. To people. I want to communicate. I want people to go. Oh, that's nice.

1:53:33Well done. That's excellent. Oh, no. So the pressure I like and want that pressure. And if I put enough pressure on myself early, I have less tension. Like, again, conservative early, liberal late. Understood. Yeah. Are you ever surprised by the reactions to your performances?

1:53:56Yeah. One thing, and this is, I always think this is kind of one of the best compliments an actor can get.

1:54:07When I do, when I do, when I do have a good performance, people on the set and people in the world go, that's you. And it's an indirect but very direct compliment. Because if you act, because you're not seeing anything, you're not seeing you do anything. Not in the act. Yeah. And in a way, a good performance. We're, some people think that acting is about being outside of yourself. No, it's not. That's only half the journey. It's seeing, notice him, but then in studying, though, something that may not be me, but, oh, I got that in me. And here are people I'm studying in this example. So I'm going to find that myself.

1:54:47And I'm going to turn up the HKZ on that part of the equalizer of the full work. That's what's going to be primary. You know, and so we all got it in it. We have everything in it. We have everybody in us. So that's only half the journey is going outside of ourselves. It's getting to the insular, the singular I see it on the inside out. And you met, I get there by observing out, objectively first, to then bring it in and go inside out to where I'm living it breathing it, feeling I am the guy. And if someone goes, it's you. Yeah. At first, I think when I was more insecure early in my career, I'm like, no, it's not.

1:55:20I'm acting. Yeah, yeah. And I got, I was like, no, exactly. That means I pulled it off. Yeah. How do you think growing up in Texas informed who you are today?

1:55:36Well, like, going to the Texas or go up my family, like, so, so, look on a 30 ,000 foot level Texas is fiercely independent. And you're, and there's certain, I remember in Texas, talk about pressure, you know, typical things you were, you know, pat on the back, do good because or get consequences and you're getting trouble because you didn't are because that's religious. That's not what you, you know, it's not how you were brought up. Yeah. God to do. Then there's because that's un -American, right? That's very American. And then there's your last name because you're a rubin. You're a mcgonahe.

1:56:22And now you're troubled because that's not rude to that. Well, in Texas, you had a fourth one because you're Texan or that's no, no, that's not Texan. So it was another measure of initiation of what your expectations were. Interesting. And there's a fierce independence in it. Texans have a great identity, but they're not like Louisiana. Louisiana people stay in Louisiana. Texans are like, okay, now get your passport and go. And then come back and tell stories about it. Yeah. Or get out of here. Yeah. Go ahead. But then come on back and tell us about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we like to export. And you're pushed to be able to encourage to go.

1:56:59Go find out, man. Yeah. In my family, it was, uh, look, it was effort hustle. And there's a lot of stuff I know that I've gotten because I'm out hustled. Where I met, where I wasn't the most talented. But I got it because I out hustled. Um, work ethic was big. And, and also my family's outlaws, man. What do you think you got the work ethic, though? Not all outlaws have good work ethic. See, my parents did, though, have they were absolute outlaws, but they were a big, hey, man, say what you can do. Do what you say. You can't do it. Don't say you can do it. Yeah. You know, we got a lot of you running these people that are always, they're all yes about everything.

1:57:45Overlavery things. No bullshit. Yeah, it's like, just say what you can do, do what you say. If you can't, you're doing me, you're doing the person a better favor by going. That's, that's not for me. Well, thank you. Now I can find someone who can. Thank you very much. Yeah. Um, so don't overlaverage yourself. And, um, say what you can do to do what you say. And if you're gonna say, if you say you can do it, you do it. Do it. Don't have acid was a big thing, my dad. Don't have acid something, man. If you're going to, do it. Yeah, do it. Then do it. Yeah, or don't do it. But just don't do it. What are some skills you learned for parts that you've played?

1:58:20Um, got a film coming out, rivals of VAMs I right now where, um, I got half decent on a man to land. That's cool. I think it good, but I got, you got to have these on. Cool, though. Jam, to name it, brother, song out, we park that out. That was super fun. Um, I mean, I don't, I don't know how to, films where I learned, learned early in scuba dive. There's a lot of scuba diving. You've got ridden horses, but got to be a pretty good horseman on a couple of films. Um, in this film called Paradise, I was here coming out, I drive the hell out of that bus, but I consider myself pretty good driver anyway.

1:58:53So I don't have that to skill, I learn. You know, reading habits, do you like to read? I don't read much. Okay. I write more than I read. I have trouble getting through a whole book. A try. Am I a library field? You would see books and be like, wow, kind. I'm going to be like, I know. I started, I have, I started everyone. Yeah, yeah. Um, you think it's that you're impatient? What do you think it is? Oh, I don't think it's impatient. Here it doesn't hold your attention. I lose my attention. Yeah. Or, or this.

1:59:29Like, for instance, Emerson's. Is it, it's not a sermon, but he's got an essay on self alliance.

1:59:4017 pages. It's going to be nine months to read it. Because. Each paragraph, I go, whoa, whoa. Whoa, step that down. I got a walk on that and trying to apply that to life. Yeah. And see what I get back. Kind of revert back yet. Yeah. And before I could go on to the next. So I do, I, I love. Principal sort of reading that. So this is a pro approach. On a philosophy on life. And I would now want to take it in and see if I can practically see what I get back from it. See what it does to me. See how I'm asleep and how I'm leaving. How my relationship. That's my. And so it takes, I'm very slow reader that way.

2:00:20It's that type. If it's fiction. It usually, I'll use it to lose my interest. Uh -huh. So it was nonfiction. That I can turn, I like taking nonfiction and turning that into fiction. Turning that into dreams. And like, well, let's levitate this. Let's expand. Let's riff on this. What if this story kept going? You know, do you know your dreams? You remember your dreams? Pretty much. And, you know, if I have recurring ones like the ones I was telling you to go to Africa, those are. I take those. As a, as a sign. Yeah. Um. And I've got some, yeah, I've got some recurring nightmares. And I got some recurring good ones.

2:01:01Um. And I write some down and then come, my wife and I'll talk about them too. Because sometimes we've found that we're having, we're on a similar, we're having, we call it similar pillows. Yeah. Different dream, but of the same. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of the same milk. That's interesting. Yeah. What do you believe now that you didn't believe when you were younger? Oh gosh, that's a great question. I believe now that I didn't believe in my eyes. We could do the opposite also. Yeah, that's right. I'm thinking I'm going to flip it. Uh -huh.

2:01:34Because I think, you know, part of what is challenging about growing up.

2:01:43There are a lot of times we learn worse. We don't learn better. Knowledge, I love knowledge. And I love it. If we don't have something to teach younger people than what the hell's evolution for? What are we going to do it? At the same time, life, ask you to start just compromising. Ask you to start going, well, call it a shade of gray. Sign of contradiction. It's not black and white. It's paradox. And all this. There's wisdom in all that at the same time.

2:02:19I'm not ready. I don't think any of it should be. And I don't want to be ready to go.

2:02:27I'm still working to hold off as long as I can to going. Well, that's just how it is. And that revolution here is an area of spirit of youth, of belief, out of ignorance. Yeah. It's beautiful. Absolutely. So as I gain knowledge, and I understand practically, I'm like, where's belief come from? Where you want belief, you want faith. Don't look at the facts. You ain't going to find them there. The facts tell you... It's a losing game, right? The facts tell you what you can't do. Right. And as a guy who likes to go to the facts first, and then make fiction out of that, dreams out of the facts, I, that's a constant challenge with me to go, no, go to the, don't lose the rhyme for the reason.

2:03:14Yeah. And I try to find rhyme in the reason, but don't be blind or turn tone deaf to the rhythms and the rhymes that have no reason. And you're not supposed to know how it's not supposed to add up. It's not math. It's not science. It's not... It's something else. And this... So that belief as a child is something I'm still. I don't want to... I believe in man. I believe in mankind. I believe in people. I believe we can improve. It's just even a little bit. And I don't think it's that hard. I believe in myself. I don't want to... for convenience...

2:03:56say, yeah, that's okay. That's how it is. At the same time, I think I oughta be able to forgive more than I do. And there's some things where I need to go, that's how it is. Just let it ride. You can still take your value into that, instantly, but you've grown. You've changed the world. It's changed the town. The town is... Don't fight. I'm trying to... It's hard picking the right fights. Yeah. And I'm trying to... In the fair fights... in life are hard enough to win. Yeah. I'm trying to raise three kids. Yeah. That's a beautiful fight to be in. And it's a fair fight. And a justified one that you can go.

2:04:31If you just do that... Man. I'm not ready to concede and go well. I'm trying to pick the right battles. Yeah. I'm trying to pick the right battles. Because we've got 24 hours a day. Yeah. There's a lot of time to take on every single battle. And you think when you were younger, you would have taken on every battle. It's bam, you take them. They're one way tickets. Yeah. You know, and as you get older, you don't get family, we got responsibilities. I think you can't take one way tickets. You know, I can't say, hey, you want to go see if we can go back to all these home town tomorrow morning? Get a backpack and go.

2:05:03Yeah. Well, hang on. I got a check. Yeah. This decision has some context and consequences. Yeah. I can't just pick up and go on a one way. Yeah. I got a check and see if it's the right time. I got responsibility. So those things that come with maturity, those boundaries, I think Linda's obviously more wisdom and freedom and enlightenment. But if it, I watch when it starts to just scrape it belief in faith, in blind faith and belief. And I'm a trust first guy. Yeah. And I don't want to, I don't want to not become a trust first guy. I think cynicism is one of the biggest diseases we have and it kills us early.

2:05:41Skepticism on four. As soon as it's like now, you copped that, you gave up. Uh -huh.

2:05:49Okay.

2:06:21Okay.

From the publisher

Matthew McConaughey is an Academy Award-winning actor, producer, author, and professor of film, known for his captivating leading roles and versatility. He has appeared in more than 40 feature films, beginning with his breakout role in Richard Linklater’s Dazed and Confused, that have grossed over $1 billion. While he is most popular for his roles in films including Dallas Buyers Club, Interstellar, Free State of Jones, and the HBO television series True Detective, McConaughey is also the author of Greenlights, his life-changing, #1 New York Times Bestselling memoir that provides an intimate look at his life, career, and personal philosophies. The book has inspired millions of readers through the actor’s unflinching honesty, unconventional wisdom, and lessons learned the hard way about living with greater satisfaction–and it’s now available in paperback and with exclusive new content. Beyond writing and film, McConaughey, alongside his wife, Camila, founded the Just Keep Livin’ Foundation, a nonprofit organization that empowers high school students to make healthy choices by implementing after school fitness programs across 19 cities in the United States.

From November 16-17, McConaughey will be headlining the 2024 Texas Book Festival in Austin, Texas. Joined by authors including Malcolm Gladwell, Naomi Shihab Nye, and Ernest Cline, he will showcase his memoir and celebrate the culture of literacy, ideas, and imagination with readers.

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