Richard Rudd

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30:00So then you spent years developing the gene keys and did you start teaching it right away or did the book come first? Yeah, I wrote the book first. I started teaching some innovations on the 64 hexagrams I call them then the 64 gifts. I discovered these gifts in each one. I wanted this new language that kind of was a bit more upbeat. And as I went to teach that course, it was about 100. Tell me this is right. It wasn't upbeat for the sake of being upbeat. No, it was upbeat because that's how you actually saw it. Yeah, absolutely. You weren't sugarcoding it. No, no, no. And the story was that I was on my way to this workshop, to teach this workshop, which was well subscribed.

30:45A couple hundred people in Newcastle. and I was on the train and as a friend of mine, Werner Pitsal, who is an Austrian psychotherapist, very kind of a student of psychotherapy. And we sat on the train and we were talking, he was kind of coming to support me and new human design and he was one of my friends from that era. And I was showing him these gifts. I said that there are 64 gifts in the E -Cheng. And then we were talking on the train and we said, you know, there must be shadows in each of these gifts. There must be like, what is the shadow? So we spent the train only four hours exploring the shadows of each gift.

31:29You know, so, like, you know, in the jinkies book, it then, you know, I then wrote down those shadows and explore them in more depth. And we also discovered that underneath each shadow was a sublayer of a repressive and a reactive kind of aspect of these patterns. There's just basically human patterns. So by the time we got to the workshop, the Newcastle, we had a whole new set of keynotes to work with. So we had gifts and shadows, and it was like a really cool spectrum. And then that evening, before I went to bed, I just thought, there's another level. Because I have this love of threes and trinities.

32:11And I was like, what's the transcendent level? If you have a shadow and then you have inside that shadow potentially a gift that can be born, and the shadow being a victim pattern, a human victim pattern might be a form of conflict that we create in our lives, might be failure, might be one of the words, failure is one of the words, right? And how failure can undermine the thought of failure, the fear of failure can under minus. But the same energy of failure, the gift could be called preservation. So it's like that same energy, like if you could use the energy at a higher level, then you might choose to preserve something beautiful for the future instead of like being constantly undermining yourself.

32:58So you might actually find something creative to do where you're like passing something onto future generations, something very, the gifts were very creative. Anyway, that night I thought there's, you know, 64 keys of transcendence. And then they came all that night in a kind of rock, all of them. They came in an hour. Wow. You know, like really fast and clear. And they came out of that height and state that I knew from my mystical experience. And there were words like compassion. So that one preservation become veneration. And then I saw whole lineages behind them. You know, I just I saw like wow the whole lineage of Buddhism is a is a is a lineage through that key comes through like that because it becomes so clear in an instant.

33:43Yeah. Amazing. Yeah, and then there was like compassion and I could see the whole story of the Buddha and the Christ coming together through that one and and I said the shadow, you know, and I because I knew the E. Cheng as well and there was 64 of these, the language was rich inside me, like a fractal language that I was discovering and I was really excited. And so I arrived at the course the next morning with this whole language unprepared. And I just said to the students who were there, I said, look, I can teach you the course I planned to teach or on the way here, it's completely changed. I can just teach from there and they all were like, yeah.

34:24So I taught for the first, I guess the first ever jinkies course, but it wasn't called jinkies. And we start to explore it in the room live and it was powerful with, so it's interesting what I'm hearing is when you see the thread of Buddhism or the thread of Christ, that all of these systems or the e -ching, all of these systems are descriptions of the same thing. Yes. But seen through a different lens, a different eye, you know those gods with a thousand eyes. Yes. Or the peacock. These are all just different ways of accessing essentially the same information. Exactly. The same stream of love, wisdom, divinity, but through these different lenses.

35:17You know, it was beautiful. And ironically, back when Ra gave me a reading, years and years before, he said, I would do this. He didn't know what it, he said, you will codify the spiritual ways, all the spiritual ways. And I had no idea what he meant when he said that.

35:37He died by the time I started doing it. I mean, yeah, it's nice that image of the different lenses. It's interesting. Yeah, it's interesting that it's all descriptions of the same. We think of them as opposing forces when that's not the case at all. No, totally not. Yeah, that's why you could equally say nothing. I think that's why, you know, in those other great stages, just said, well, I better if I don't say anything. Because if I say, if I start talking, I'm talking down a stream and people will think that there's importance in that stream and there's so many other roots. Tell me how the gene cues has arranged in the book.

36:24Well, it's simple really. I took the e -ching and I decided to kind of illuminate these words that I'd found. So I'd found, as I said, 64 shadow words, 64 gift words and 64, I call them cities. That's the Sanskrit word city. Some may have heard of that. There wasn't a word in English to describe like an enlightened realized state that was different to other states. So 64 cities. And that I called the spectrum of consciousness and that was the language framework that then became this book. I decided just to write each of those hexgrams and explore them. And so I took them at random. I didn't take them from one to sixty -four.

37:13I just thought I'm going to start with ten, just because it was the first one on top of my head. I don't think I did start with ten actually. And I just contemplated it. And I didn't refer to any old texts or eaching books. When you contemplated it, did you contemplate the word? Yeah. Did you look at the hexagram or no? Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, but I didn't analyze it. I didn't go, oh, that's heaven over earth. I just looked to it. I kind of had an understanding of those things. I had studied with this incredible man Huachengni Chinese master, master of the E -Cheng. He's got wonderful E -Cheng book, Huachengni, one of the best books on the E -Cheng.

37:55And he was like an old, I think he's a 74th generation teacher of the E -Cheng, like really long lineage. You know, reading his books has a certain energy signature that he weaves into the books and I think as you read his books you get a sense of his enlightened consciousness. Where's he based? He was based in the sort of Oregon area, West Coast somewhere. He's got two sons who now run a kind of Chinese medicine university. You know, so he taught a whole load of Tao teachings and I met him when I was out in the in the US and kind of became one of his mentors. He called them mentors, not one of his mentors, but under, I was kind of permitted me to teach in his name, if you don't know what I mean.

38:50Yeah, and he was an amazing man. He was like this golden orb of a man and beautiful presence to be in. He had this incredible wisdom. Have you always hunted down great teachers? Not always, but some came to me. They seemed to be Taoist teachers. The other one was Mantak Chia, who's a completely different kind of teacher, who I studied with for many years doing Qi Gong and he was much more technique -oriented teacher. And… I read his books. Yeah, great, great, kind of crazy man. You know, I love his way of teaching. Very technical, very practical. Yeah, but also the Dow, that seemed to be, I had a strong draw.

39:33I mean, I went to India in those places and I also explored the Shakras and those kind of teachings and a bit of Buddhism and Tibetan Buddhism, but it seemed to be the Dow that had a deep hold on me, these Chinese sages. Yeah, so that's how I wrote the j… so I contemplated each key and however long it took me before I felt like I had something to say. But what happened for me was it came alive. So I took three keynotes and I contemplated them and then they came alive in my life in some way. So something happened like an event or say if it was failure or something. Suddenly I met someone who had just failed dismally in something and there was this whole story and or sometimes it was my own experience.

40:22Something came up for me. You would have an experience that would give you insight into the subject. Exactly. So that's how I wrote the book out of a living understanding. So some keys came quite quickly. Yes. And others took a long time, months, and until something had happened, I couldn't rewrite about it. And yeah, so it was a real process. And it took about four or five years of writing the first pass of the book. And then I got a whole other editor who helped me refine. And then I wrote another whole layer to it, because I wasn't, it didn't have depth. They didn't have enough depth. So I then kind of, I went in and I did another rewrite, which was more focused, all in one burst.

41:11But it took a couple more years. And then so in total it took about seven years. Did having our 64 in front of you help the refining process? Yeah, definitely, definitely. It actually, the strangest feeling when I put the final full stop on the last one I was happy. And the last one was Jean -Key 22. It was one that I was never happy with and then I suddenly got it after I'd been very, very sick. And it's the key of dishonor and grace. And it's really like a master key. those double digit numbers are like there's something special out them, 22, 11, 33, and they have some special kind of teaching in them.

41:58Anyway, so I got to be sick. My whole family was sick and I was sort of trying to care for my young kids while they were sick, while I was sick and it was just a miserable, miserable time and my wife was sick and you know, we were all stressed and it's awful. for like two or three weeks. And then out of coming out of that sick period, I wrote the 22 and then finished the book. And it was all about the nature of suffering. You know, that's what it's about, that one. The kind of core nature of suffering and what I call the sacred wound. And when I finished, I had this strange experience of like, wow, I've somehow taken the experience I had in the 90s, that three day experience and I put it in a book.

42:42I realized that, I'd done that. Without realizing that's what I'd done. Just the stream of that kind of awakened consciousness, seeing it through all these lineages and lenses, I had been guided to do it in this book, the Jean -Kees. It was then called at the end, I called it the Jean -Kees. It's like a main... And I wrote the introduction at the end, because I had no idea how to use it. How did you come up with the title? I think it was a title I'd played with early on, because I realized the relationship between DNA and the e -chain, which you and I were talking about recently, and it's an extraordinary mathematical relationship.

43:21It is pure mathematical. So when you look at the hexagrams of the e -chain, and they're made up of trigrams, which are made up of, so hexagram is six lines in a line, and there are either broken lines or unbroken lines, in and yang, they're called. And those are called, when you have a broken and an unbroken line, that's called a bi -gram. So in other words, when you combine them in twos, you end up with four bi -grams. And those relate to, in a way, to the four bases, nuclear tides of DNA. And then they form triplets through what are called tri -grams, which are combinations of those, you know, those nuclear tides.

43:58and then they expand out into 64, which are the codons, the patterns of our genes, of our DNA. So any geneticists will recognize that language instantly and go, oh yeah, but also when you go deep into the E -chain and you see that underlying structure, you realize that that is the pattern for life. So... And it's in a 3 ,000 year old book before any of the Western understanding of misinformation exists. Totally. Totally. And it was a guy staring into the back of a tortoise, you know, on the, that's the legend anyways. Sitting on the edge of the Yangtze River, the tortoise climbs out, this guy is lying there in the sun and he looks at the tortoise's back and the under and the kind of interlocking patterns of the tortoise's back.

44:47And he suddenly has this epiphany and he writes down the, he draws these biograms, these diagrams and that becomes the foundation for what's called the Bhagwa, which you see on the Korean flag, for example, you know, it's that. And that then spawned the e -chang as an oracle. They eventually became an oracle. I think in its early days it probably wasn't used in that way. I think it was used as a spiritual practice because that was how the jinkies used me. I became its student. And through contemplating them, I changed something in my DNA. And when Tom had finished that book, I was different. You know, I literally had gone through a whole cycle where my biology changed, my shape changed.

45:35I had the same experience with people who've translated it. I had this lovely man, Oli, who's a Romanian, who translated the Jean -Kies book into Romanian. And he came to me and he just, he was cursing out. He was, you would love him. He was a drummer in a death metal band. Right. I don't know how he got to be the translator of the Jean -Kies, but his life utterly changed in translating this book, and he lost a huge amount of weight while he was translating it, and he went through a whole series of revelations. So it's a, in the early days I joked as that this is a book that talks to your DNA.

46:12And I think it does. I think many people have talked to yours, and that's why it exists. Exactly. So, there's a fundamental pattern somewhere at work here. And then I started to explore it in other areas as well. And I started to, you know, musicians would start coming to me and saying, you know, the octaves are also 64, the eight octaves. And architects would come and say, well, you know, the five spiral and the Fibonacci sequence, like those are also 64s. And then our technology, you know, 64 -bit technology that allows the computer to operate and our phones. It's all 64 -bit technology. It's the same binary coding that is littered throughout the universe.

46:57Even some of the kind of fringe physicists are saying that the potential structure of space time is a 64 -fold tetrahedral grid because you see it kind of, you know, when you map these geometries, the sacred geometries, vector equilibrium and you're mapping the kind of structure of space time, it also may well have a 64 -fold pattern. So it's a fundamental pattern of life. And what came out of that, and this was the understanding I had in my three days that we live in a hologram. A fractal hologram where everything is a map of everything else, so that contained in one kind of tiny photon as the whole universe or contained, it's the insight of Blake, the great poets or Shakespeare, you know, everything is encoded inside everything else.

47:59So we're living in this simulated holographic universe, and then it's getting kind of deep, but that's the revelation of this code of the DNA of the Jean -Kies. So that's why I called it Jean -Kies because I realized these were keys that related to our DNA and I wanted to make that link. Yeah, that's interesting.

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49:55I had my idea. How about take a look to the art of contemplation and read us something that speaks to you? Sure. Let's see. Here's a nice part, you know. The reward of pausing, right? The mind of light. Your new gift of insight can bring some extraordinary rewards into your life. Chief among these is lucidity of mind. After some time you will find that your mind grasps the essence of any particular problem spontaneously and effortlessly. The main hallmark of a lucid mind is its ability to transform any challenge into a creative opportunity. As you learn the art of contemplation, you will even find that you're thinking itself begins to pause, as little spaces begin to open out between your thoughts.

50:51A clear mind repels both doubt and confusion. This new sense of inner spaciousness can give you a fresh confidence in the power of your own mind that you will transmit everywhere you go and in everything you do. I'll just say one more bit. In Japan where the art of contemplation has been perfected through the insensitive practices of Zen Buddhism, one of the characters used for the word contemplation is, and there's an image of the character. The literal translation of these two characters is light flashed through the mind. Many human beings have insured that the mind operating at its highest potential is connected to the notion of light.

51:30We speak of flashes of intuition, of illumination and enlightenment. All the great mystical traditions are glued to this inner light that exists in a state somewhere just beyond our ordinary mind. The highest goal of the art of contemplation is ultimately to reveal this inner light. So that's the reward of learning the art of pausing, which is the foundation principle of learning to contemplate. So in contemplation are the spaces between the light as important to the light? Yes, absolutely. Yeah, and you know, this book came about after the Jean Keys and it's funny in a way because I kind of wrote it in response to my father who when I showed him the Jean Keys books that I don't understand any of this.

52:26And he was a practical man, you know, a businessman. And so I said, okay, I'll try and write something else, you know. And it wasn't, I wanted to write this book anyway because I realized people were asking me how do you do the Gene Kits like I love the wisdom and there were these profiles that you could get and you can explore all that stuff online but then people say how do you do it? And I said the secret is the art of contemplation. So I wrote this book, The Art of Contemplation, Short Book, it's my desert island book, you know, under 100 pages where I just distilled everything down to this single technique that is ageless and timeless, and hasn't really been explained very often, strangely enough.

53:12I mean, we have a lot of descriptions and techniques around meditation and mindfulness, but not so much what's contemplation. We kind of tend to think it's like thinking about something a lot, right? And so I took this beautiful word, contemplation and then in this little book show how it's a spiritual practice that many people can grasp very easily, much more easily than meditation and it might include meditation as well or it might not. It might include riding your bike, it might include playing music, it might you know contemplation is a very broad generous creative field and you can do anything in a contemplative manner.

53:59So it opens up a whole beautiful technique and that what I just read is one of its highest possibilities is that as you learn to do things in a contemplative way which involves pausing, you know, because contemplation is not a fast word, right? It requires that you do things slowly and that you pause in between activities, so that you can integrate things more clearly. I mean, this is how I wrote my Jinkies book. I took seven years, contemplating, taking my time, not rushing, not kind of planning. You can't plan contemplation. It's not a strategic word. In some ways, the book on contemplation is a how to read the Jinkies.

54:49It's how to do anything. It doesn't even mention the gene keys. That works. I didn't even, there's no jargon in it. It's how to do anything. In a way, if I've ever written a masterpiece, I say it's that little book. Because it's just distilled and it's practical and anyone can learn to pause, anyone can do it. But if I wanted to get into the gene keys, what would be the entry path? This, I would say, learned to contemplate. And you can apply it to business. If it's something that leads you to lucidity and wisdom, surely that is the most precious thing anyone can have. I mean, there's love, but it's an aspect of love.

55:42of, you know, the mind of light is wisdom and love coming through the mind. You know, so it's a, it's the heart mind at work. So if you can see through the heart in lucidity, you can apply that to every decision you make in life. And that decision will be a decision rooted in flow, good fortune, rhythm, harmony. But you know, you, you have to slow down from being in a stress state. And that's what this little book kind of invites you to do. Makes you more relaxed. Tell me about the triple flame. Yeah, the triple flame is in the back of the book are a bunch of little exercises that I wrote later and I just thought, here are some fun things you can do to help you enter the field of contemplation.

56:32An example is as a whole section on lingering. You know, it's like, try and linger a bit more. No, it went often when we finished something, we rushed straight onto something else. And actually lingering is that quality of just being a little bit more lazy and just allowing things to just stretch out a little bit more. And it's in that lingering, and I use the example of you having dinner with a bunch of people. And then you, some of you have to go home, but you decide to stay on. It's in that lingering state that the most interesting things always come out. There's a few people left that's thriftful of you there.

57:11You're lingering, maybe you have had a few drinks or whatever. The conversation suddenly opens up. It's like it's off the record, exactly. And you can apply that lingering to anything in life. And I say, there's other words, like sauntering, meandering. If you're walking somewhere, give yourself a bit more time.

57:32So yourself in actually 10 minutes and go through the market just for the hell of it, just or along the river, just for the hell of it. Because when you get to work, a guarantee you'll get there in a way better space and more prepared. It's powerful in that so much of today's society is about efficiency. Yeah. And this is the anti -efficiency message, which is really helpful. It is. But ironically, it actually creates more efficiency. Yes. Because you don't waste energy because you have lucidity. So you rush decisions, lead to wasted energy. You know, stressful decisions, lead to wasted energy.

58:13Things go wrong. So you waste energy. It's entropy. It's one of the things with meditation where I've heard it said that, you know, I don't have time to meditate. So if you spent half hour meditating, you would have so much more time in your day. Exactly. Yeah, and so the triple flame is a little pausing technique. There's a bit more structured and we created an app for this. The triple flame apps on the app store. And it just requires pausing every three hours for three minutes. So really simple. There's, I don't think there's anyone that can't do that. It's that simple. So 369, 12 o 'clock, you pause for three minutes and the app just gives you a little thing and it and you can either choose to do a little guided three minutes meditation or it's chanting or whatever you want or you can just sit quietly or if you're in the middle of an activity that you can't stop you do it for three minutes in really intense state of kind of relax -idness and awareness, mindfulness.

59:18So you start to create these little pauses throughout your day and then you start to string them together day after day after day, week after week after week, month after month after month. And it starts to have a really strong subtle impact on your biology, on your psychology, on your emotions, on your, you know, you start. That's why I said that the reward of pausing is eventually you have those experience of the mind of light. You begin to see things in real lucidity. You actually begin to inhabit a meditative state because you've kind of tricked your body into pausing and what will happen is you will pause outside those three hour windows.

1:00:03You're dreaming yourself to be able to pause. Exactly. And then you will also probably what will happen is you'll stretch out those pauses because you enjoy them so much. Yes. And so you might stretch it to 10 minutes or even an hour or if you're really, you know, I learned this method from you some time ago and practiced it before there was an app just on the the three six and I and really love it. I love it. It's so simple and profound. Yeah, it is. And there's another lovely element of the app is I asked the guy who created the app to show how many people are pausing with you right now, which I think is a lovely feeling because you'll You know, across different time zones, people are pausing at 3, 6, 9.

1:00:51And you can reset the app, I think in the next version, you'll be able to change it to whichever time zone you want. So you can pause the same as the West Coast of the USA or you can pause with people in Africa or whoever they are. And the plan is to create a map so you can see the wave of pausing around the world, of people pausing. So there's this also feeling of you're not alone right now in these three minutes. There are 54 people or 154, a thousand. That's the goal really is that 10 ,000 people are pausing right now for three minutes. That'll have an impact. Absolutely. Yeah. Tell me about the ecosystem of the Gen Kies in the digital world.

1:01:38Well, interestingly, I have a really great little team of people at Gen Kies that we've built organically and we love each other and know each other really deeply and we live the teachings. And we have a lot of fun and we've built a business out of it and we're very committed to certain principles like generosity and affordability and integrity and those things. So we keep it very affordable for people and it's growing. And early on we decided let's try and do an online retreat. Right? So we've got one year we're just, so that we're going to do an online, no one had done any online retreats. This was way before the pandemic and Zoom and stuff.

1:02:19But we put together this idea and we created an online retreat, which lasts three months, following through some strands of Eugene keys. So each person would have their profile and they would go through the four Eugene keys that relate to your sense of purpose, to unlocking your purpose. So it's a contemplative program. and it was four months. So we created like this one key a month, right? So you had a lot of time to really explore that key in your life and each key unlocked a different aspect of your genius to your purpose. And we had about 500 people and the first one was really, really great, all around the world and we did this online kind of rhythmic retreat that got people into the teachings but also kind of stayed in their lives.

1:03:13So they actually integrated it into their daily life, instead of going off on retreat and then coming back and having a big experience and then coming back and how do you integrate that? That's quite challenging. So we thought let's do it in life. And it was hugely successful. And then over the years we developed these online retreats and really got good at them. And then the pandemic hit and we were completely set up. And we were just about to launch our biggest ever online retreat, which was about love and relationships. And we were experts in Zoom and all those things that people had, you know, people were like, we were dialed.

1:03:51So we like, we hit the ground running in the pandemic year. We did this huge sit -to -month retreat on love and relationships with thousands of people who signed up. And it was really powerful, you know, having that global community and people could do it at their own level. So we designed these retreats so that it doesn't take over your life. It just zings along in the background and you can dip in whenever you can. So it's like you come in, depending on the level you can give. So maybe one month you had more time so you gave more, but the next month you were really busy. So you had to go in a bit lighter.

1:04:33So we got really good at kind of essentializing truths and things so that people could there be like assignments Themes each week each month. So we've draw out the essence of like here's you need to watch this It's only 10 minutes or you know, you know, it's like a video course. Yeah, yeah, it's something like that But also with live we call them community calls You know, so in the second week of each month or as we had community calls where people could come together in different time zones and meet and discuss, meet each other and discuss their keys. And then we'd put them into little chat rooms for three or four people, randomly.

1:05:17And people had incredible experiences meeting people. We start to see all kinds of patterns of like, wow, I was in a room with three people and they all had the same keys as me. We didn't do that deliberately. Or I was in the room with someone and I had a car crash and they'd also been in a car crash. And so we had so many of these stories I can't tell you how many synchronicities occurred in these retreats. And people met and fell in love with each other and got married and people made friends for life and people went traveling and to cross the world to someone they'd met in one of these retreats.

1:05:55So they were really powerful and we still do them today. We're still doing them and we're trying to kind of you know, have it so that the time is not, you're not spending too much time online. But essentially, I've created these online self -study courses for the Jean Keys that you can do in your own pacing and your own rhythm. And it's not too much. And I've done books as well. So I've written the hard copy books as well for each of the, they're called sequences of the Jean Keys understanding your Jean Keys and your profile. So it's really popular. And people are reading those books and exploring their keys and loving it.

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1:08:14Is there a way to go online and put in your breath date and find out what your keys are? Yeah, yeah. Jinkies .com and then profile, free profile. And you put it in and then have a look, it gives you a bunch of words. It gives you some little paragraphs and if they resonate, then you might want to take it a bit further and come and do one of the actual online courses or programs. Or get the book. Or get the book. Yeah. The books that take you through your profile, which are called the sequence books. They're also on Amazon. You know, this is all described online and, you know, there's a little course about to come out new to the Jean -Kies that will show people much more clearly how they begin.

1:08:57But it's kind of wild, and I'm not a teacher in astrology. I'm not an astrology guy either. But I'm really interested in that, like, why? How? Because that puts a lot of people off. They go, well, I don't believe in astrology. It's nonsense. But I kind of have a lot of good skeptical friends around me, and I have great conversations. And one day it came to me as I was talking to this old friend of mine, Man in his 80s, and he was like, I don't believe in that nonsense. And we were talking and I said, well, you know how we see the universe has fractal patterns in it, right? So we look at the same pattern that we see in a nebula, you can see when you cut open a cell or slice a grapefruit in half.

1:09:50You know, you'll see self -similar replicating patterns throughout the universe, the fractal patterns, right? And space has fractal patterns woven into it. And if space does, then time must, because time and space can't be separated. So time also is fractal. And what does that mean? It means that every moment contains a pattern, a signature that reflects some aspect of the whole. So when you look with the jinkies, you put these 64 fractal patterns and then you put them into a time clock. It's like you're looking at a whole kind of... You're looking at a... at a map of fractal time. And this is how I understood...

1:10:34This is how I've understood what astrology, the core insight that led to astrology. How you read it is another whole thing, and whether you're any good at reading archetypes and the symbols. But in the Jean case, it's 64, so you're looking at a 64 -fold fractal map of time, which you can put around the clock of the year. So it gives you these, it gives you touchstones to contemplate. But it doesn't tell you who you are. It just gives you something to contemplate and they really tend to resonate with people. I don't know. That's what people are finding. Is everything based on patterns? Yeah, I would say so.

1:11:20But some of the patterns are wild. You know, they're not like we think of patterns we think of, you know, euclidean geometry. Whereas wild geometry is kind of... Like a... Yeah, like an oak tree growing. that is not so easy to predict, which way, so that's also a pattern, but there's a perfection even in those wilder patterns. And chaos theory, right? Chaos theory is showing that even within chaos are underlying principles, the branching into threes, for example. when we do interior work, is it happening inside of our body? You got some good rascally questions.

1:12:11Yeah, because the body is the kind of foundational hologram. So every cell of our body, you know, when we go inside, when we close our eyes and we go into it in a world, our body is the kind of baseline, it's the anchor. That's why the Buddhists teach breathing. And the most ancient techniques are always around breathing or chanting because it just brings this rhythm deep into your body. Contemplation does the same. It brings you eventually to awareness of your breathing because it slows you down and when you slow down you become aware without doing a technique of breathing. So the body is like that kind of anchor place.

1:13:05It's the field where transformation occurs. It might occur there last because it's physical. So you might experience It's an emotional transformation quicker, but then how that gets communicated into the structure of the body, because it's course of matter may take longer. So transforming the body in that way can take longer. Physical patterns, do you know what I mean? Yes. Tell me about faith. Faith. It's a beautiful word, faith. I don't use it in the Jean -Kies. There are many words that appear in the jinkies. Like, faith doesn't appear, trust doesn't appear, hope doesn't appear. Yeah, faith, it depends on how you look at it.

1:13:56You've got to kind of extrapolate it away from religion maybe. And then it becomes very akin to trust. Because if you've really come into this place inside you, where you've found that pause, that eternal pause, that's when you reach faith. There's no doubt in it, you know, and it's not belief either, to me, true faith. It's not belief, it's not something you've constructed. like I read the Bible or the Bhagavad -gita and that's given me faith, it would be something that came from a real lived experience of divinity inside and that is what creates faith. It's a direct knowing. It's a cellular certainty.

1:14:50That's what it is. It can never be taken away from you once you felt it. It's There's another word that's like, it's interesting the idea of the difference between knowing and belief and they are very different. Yeah. It's like when they ask Jung, do you believe in God? He said, I don't believe, I know. That's a completely different answer. Yes. Yeah. Talk to me about the power of numbers. numbers are great aren't they? They are great. I got some mathematical friends and you know one of the things that I realized in my mystical state is that everything is made of numbers. Everything and sometimes I remember walking through a forest and because when you look through the gene keys, you're looking only through 64, right?

1:15:53But they're the numbers of eternity. So they go on and on forever, like the Fibonacci sequence, like pure math, just goes on and on forever, or Pi, on and on forever. So they are a way of kind of training the left brain to see infinity, to see and grasp the infinite. But they only take us, you know, they can only take us to the precipice like in a way. They take us to logic, which is founded on numbers, and science, which is founded on numbers, essentially. Can only take us to the very edge, the precipice, the paradox, and then beyond there, lie dragons, as the saying goes. So numbers are beautiful because they, the construct of our, what the ancient's called the Maya, they call it the Maya, the illusion, the fabric of space time, the kind of, the illusion's not quite the right word because it gives the wrong impression.

1:16:55But the fabric of the construct of our reality is made up of things that can be counted and numbers, like the pixels that you go to, the scientists are going on small and small and smaller numbers and greater and greater and greater numbers. But eventually, they get to the same place, They both get to paradox, they get to the infinite. And so there's a place where numbers point towards that, but then they stop. Literally, and I love that there's a lovely quote by poet Norman Nicholson. He says, the infinite adjusts itself to our need. I love that. The infinite. I've contemplated that a lot in my life.

1:17:34Infinite adjusts itself to our need. And I think numbers kind of are wonderful because they're the foundational construct of our reality, but you can't kind of, there's a point where you can't really understand the mystery. And as you go beyond the number. Yes. And it's like if you could see the fabric of reality, the pattern going on forever, the part that was close to you, you might be able to analyze and understand. And it just repeats forever, but at some point you can no longer measure it. Exactly. I mean, I love scientists. I just find them sometimes hilarious. Like the other day I heard a scientist saying, you know, we think there may be more than one infinity.

1:18:30And it's like, so you have to listen to yourself sometimes and go, okay, it's just beautiful. Yeah. You know, But there's a point where you have to enter into the mystery and it's quite hard for the left brain to let go and then move into the right brain territory, which is the whole, which is where you have to inhabit the mystery. And that's the only way you can ever know all of it. So a theory of everything, according to me, is not possible. Yes. That's not what I understand. What else do we know about the 64? Adds up to 10.

1:19:11Yeah, it's, well it reduces down to these 8s, 16s. It's 8x8. Mm -hmm. Yeah. It contains all these fractal kind of, this is what the gene keys are. It contains these fractal kind of universal lenses. So every key is like opens up. It's like an encyclopedia when you open it up. So contemplating on one key is like opening up an entire eye on an entire universe. So you can look through each one of these lenses. Would you see each one of them when you look through the lens, you're looking through it with a particular emotion? Is that what the words? What are the descriptive words for each of the keys?

1:19:58Well, there might be creative words, you know, or there might be practical words like a gift of the six, Genki six gift is diplomacy, right? So it's that's a process word, right? And then but it's also creative and because you you're constantly having to learn diplomacy in human relationships and that keys all about human relationships. It's transcendence is the word peace. So how do you find peace? you know, you find it through learning the art of diplomacy until you've arrived at peace, and then you're no longer need the diplomacy because it's a part of who you are. And diplomacy doesn't just mean being kind of nice and you know, it's about really, really listening and empathizing with all of life.

1:20:44And that's what peace is. So each key can have an emotional component, it can have a process component, it has a transformation woven through it. So every one of the 64 is a pathway to transformation. So you can actually just take one at random. Many people use my book like that. They just use the book and nothing else. And they just open it and they read it. They read one and that becomes the thing they contemplate. I'm going to pick one at random now. Cool. And I want you to tell me about where it comes. Okay, 29th key, leaping into the void. Yeah. So the shadow of this key is what lovely word, it's not lovely, but it's half -heartedness, right?

1:21:33And the gift is called commitment and the city is called devotion. I love this one. And the original eaching name for is the abysmal, you know, which is great. Well, I love the poetic word, the abysmal, the abyss. leaping into the void. And so if you're going to leap into the void, you can't do it half -heartedly. Right? And so this key is all about saying yes and how we don't say yes fully. So think about relationships. Like, you know, I discovered this through default in my own way. I discovered that There was a part of me as a man that always held a bit of myself back in relationships Like I was and I'm one of my teachers said to me You know he was a relationship counselor teacher and he said Nine in a relationship 99 % commitment is the same as 1 % commitment That really blew me away he said because you're either committed or you're not if you're holding something back you're not fully in it.

1:22:41Right, if you're... Well, I might meet someone better, you know, there's a little part of me, it's like, yeah. So, I had to learn that through, you know, myself and my relationships. And when I finally saw that, that I wasn't fully in it, I finally realized... That was the moment I fully committed. You can't make that decision. It just happens. And it's not just in relationships. It's in everything. It is in everything. It's in creativity. It's in... Everything. everything you do. Yes. If you do something half -heartedly, it's bound to fail. Yes. If you know what I mean. Or not be good. Or you do it.

1:23:18It's just not going to lead to fulfillment. Yes. Okay. But also, it can teach you. It has value. Every shadow has value, right? So because it's going to teach you where you're not committed. If there's something you're doing in your life and you're doing it half -heartedly, really look at that thing and contemplate it. and realize that through that area of your life, energy is leaking. And that leak is causing you pain. It's causing your biology pain. It might be causing problems in your biology. It will be. Because everything's connected, like we said about the body. So half -heartedness is a great thing to find in yourself.

1:23:58If there's anything you're doing half -heartedly, realize it and then you can recalibrate and... and either not do it or do it. It's exactly. So commitment is about where you then give yourself 100%, and commitment leads to devotion. It leads it. It's a transformation. It is the process of transforming half -heartedness. That's what it is. The gift is the process of transforming the shadow. It arrives at the city. So it arrives at you. Do something with utter devotion. It's like you as an artist. You've seen so many artists and music and that devotion is like it's the only thing they want to do.

1:24:41See, the only thing they can think of, that is when things just really kind of hum because you're doing your life's work. You're doing something you're designed to do because you're every cell of your body's behind it, that's devotion. So it's a beautiful key that teaches us about half -heartedness and lack of commitment and commitment and then full devotion. So other things here listed in the 29th key are the programming partner, which is the 30th Gene Key. What is programming partner? Yeah, so when you put the keys, 64 keys in a shape around the wheel, this is kind of a bit nerdy for eaching people.

1:25:23But it's fun as well. What you see is that opposite one key is it's in the wheel. If you put them in a 64 pattern, is it's exact opposite hexagram. So if it's Yin, Yang, Yin, Yang, Yin, Yang, Yin, Yang, then this one is Yang, Yin, Yang, Yin, Yang, Yin, opposite. So I call those the programming partners. So every key is part of a binary in a way. So whether you, you know, whether you're working with a profile or you're not, it's really good to understand the other side and because these there archetypes, right? And they balance each other. They imagine. They imbalance or balance each other. So they create biofeedback loops.

1:26:05So at the shadow level, they create negative biofeedback loops, you know, so the shadow of 30 is desire, right? is the force of desire. So you have desire and half -heartedness and there's a kind of dance between those two. So there's nothing wrong with desire, there's nothing wrong with half -heartedness. It's just a starting point. So we get to learn about our desire and lack of, you know, through half -heartedness and by following our desire but not fully, we learn all these different things and then And desire gets transformed into lightness. That's when we're able to, we're not sucked in by our desires.

1:26:51We don't become our desires. We have a little bit of pause around them so that we can follow them or not follow them. And then we have clarity. So we can choose which desire to follow, which design maybe to just kind of hold. Because if we follow every desire in our life, it can lead to chaos, right? So it's about how we deal and handle with the energy of desire. So those two keys, especially at the higher level, you get to see devotion and rapture. You know, rapture is that state of where desire has actually been transformed into this kind of beautiful state of bliss, where it doesn't matter if you follow your desire or if you don't follow your desire, you're in bliss.

1:27:44So it doesn't matter. So you can choose any route. But you've had to get there through a process of transformation. And part of that is going on the journey of lightness and commitment and learning. So there's a whole, there's, you know, at the shadow level, there's a biofeedback loop that keeps you in the victim place, you know, where you're just a victim of your desire cycles, and you're following one after another, and then it leads you to kind of, you know, realizing you're not fully committed, you just followed your desire into that relationship or that job or whatever it was. And so you either stay in those cycles, which creates misery, or you begin to work with them and break out of them.

1:28:27And then you find the beauty of committed practices and relationships and activities. And then you feel lighter inside yourself. And you have this wonderful dance, and then finally you get to this heightened state of transcendence. And those heightened states are describing the book, but they're kind of, they're in a way our future consciousness, I would say, as a species, because we haven't, most people may have tapped them occasionally, or maybe in a plant, medicine journey, or in some extreme event, or if you're lucky like me, you have one of those mystic experiences or a flash, and then you touch into those higher states, or perhaps you're with a great teacher, and you feel it in their presence.

1:29:14Rapture is not something that very many people know about in the modern world, but it exists as one of our kind of higher codings. And so the whole nature of jinkies is showing us what's hidden in our DNA, what's latent. There's a future evolution waiting for us. You know, that we haven't yet untapped, we haven't tapped it yet. Also in the 29th is Code On Ring, the Ring of Union for 729 and 59. What is that? This is definitely for the nerds. Jinky nerds. Well, there's patterns within patterns and some of them I haven't taught yet. And this is one of the ones I've not taught yet. I've not shared it.

1:29:58I've contemplated it myself. But if you look through the keys, they naturally form clusters that relate to the 21 of them. 22, 22, 21, it depends on how you look at it. And they form families. And they relate to kind of almost genetic families. And they may relate to amino acids. because there's 21 or 22 of those. And so it's a kind of patnut, haven't fully unlocked yet, but I'm contemplating. And my understanding of it is it's, what it shows us is it shows us the machinery of karma. So it shows us how we are moved in groups, how we as a species are evolving in genetic groupings through races and gene pools and how the machinery that the ancients call karma is underneath all of that.

1:30:57So there's this incredible web under the surface of life, the Dharma, everyone on the surface, we call it the Dharma, it's as our destiny. But underneath, you know, that old, wonderful old woodcut with the man piring behind the curtain of the global, and he's looking behind and there's all this machinery behind, it's like a medieval woodcutts, quite famous, I can't remember who it was by. But anyway, under the surface there's all this machinery. And the code on rings are kind of, they are how we are moved as whole groupings. So, so that what they do is they show us a level of orchestration that is underneath normal.

1:31:42You know, if you if you drop into a height and state, you see that, you know that. It's part of the faith or the trust. Look like everything's working perfectly according to how it's even terrible things are part of the underlying tapestry that's being woven by human consciousness. Shadow's part of it, so the Conan Rings show us more collective fields and wound patterns. I love that you've included them even though, as you've said, you're still contemplating, yeah, you're not all the way there yet. But you see the architecture. Yeah, you recognize that it's there. And by including it in the book, it invites others to participate in that unfolding.

1:32:21Yeah. It's beautiful. Exactly. And people always ask me about them. When you going to do that, when you're on, yeah, for years, they've been asking, when you get it out, I said, like, yeah, it feels like it happens. Yeah. It's a big piece, you know, it feels like I'm going to have to get there. Yeah. And the sacral plexus. The physiology. Physiology. Physiology. Well, yeah, I put these in. These were a little bit from the human design kind of revelation. And again, I put them in so that people could, you know, so that the, the gene keys had a relationship in the body, in the physiology in the body.

1:32:55And, and I don't really understand them either, but they kind of, they have those relationships are there. Their further contemplations, I think maybe in the future, people will, you know, body workers and people will be able to kind of work with these keys in unique ways, you know, so I put them in there. And then there's an amino acid. Yeah, and there's amino acid. So people like Zach Bush, for example, who I've been recently doing some work with said, you know, he'd love to create some of the amino acid profiles so that we could try them out on people with their jinxies and see what kind of effects it has.

1:33:32So I was interested, again, I put them in there so that those conversations would happen long after I'm gone. Do you have anything contemplation works? It's a spontaneous process. We create the space, we create the field, we create the pause. And I describe in the book here three stages that I noticed. And I three's. And the first is pausing, which I've discussed already, like you create the space, and then your contemplation inhabits that space in some way, depends on what you're doing, you know, or not doing. And then the second stage, which is the transformational stage, is called pivoting, pivoting.

1:34:18And pivoting is when a breakthrough happens. So something occurs in a pause, where you see something different in a new way, or you see a pattern of yours in that pause. So you kind of break the momentum of a difficult pattern in your life, or a shadow pattern, or a victim pattern, because you've paused. It's like you take a deep breath. And you realize you haven't been breathing until you take that deep breath. And that breath is the pause that then changes the pattern and then you start breathing more deeply after that. And the same in everyday life you create the pauses and in some of those pauses a pivotal experience occurs, a breakthrough occurs, is spontaneous, it can't be predicted, you have to create the pauses otherwise the pivots don't happen.

1:35:20You when it'll happen. But when it happens, you really know it. So something occurs inside you. It can be subtle and creep up on you and then suddenly you realize it or it because it's crept into all those pauses or it's an instant epiphany and you find yourself in tears or laughing or having a panic attack or something that pushes you out of a state into another state. Right. I don't mean when I say panic attack, it doesn't mean like contemplation causes panic attacks, but what it might do is push something out so that you can see it more clearly. And if you create the space of the pause, the only safe place is the space is where you're not, you don't have an expectation of yourself or anything.

1:36:10You can just allow anything to occur in those pauses. That's the beauty of the contemplative state, as anything can emerge. And it wants to come up from the unconscious, things want to come up, things that we've repressed, perhaps traumas, perhaps from childhood, perhaps from past lives, if you go into those kind of things. And they want to kind of come out, because they're waiting to be transformed. So the pivot is where those breakthroughs occur. And then the third phase, I call merging, is a beautiful phase, and it's less defined, and it comes about as we have more of those pivots. So if you have two or three pivoting experiences in a year, then you experience a more merged field.

1:37:04So the merging is what happens. You can know that the pattern has been burnt from our DNA. It's literally, a pattern has been burnt white -hot out of our DNA, like a shadow pattern, a victim pattern has gone and it will never return. Like an addiction, for example, like people have, you know, a lot of it, we all have a lot of addictive tendencies. So like a pivotal, if you create those pauses around your addiction, you might carry on with your addiction. but slowly, slowly, one of those pivotal experiences is going to occur and you're going to, you're going to, one day you're going to say, I'm going to, I'm stopping that.

1:37:46And, or I'm going to find help. Or I'm going to ask for help. That can be a pivotal experience. And then the moment that happens, you reset the track. And then you follow that pivot where it leads. It eventually leads to emerging experience where it's gone. And the addiction has been transferred to a higher level. To a, you know, it's like a thing with addiction is you don't really get rid of it, you transfer it to a higher level. It's the same with these shadows, you don't really get rid of them, you transfer them to higher frequencies. They're a higher frequency functioning of our DNA. So we can't pull them out.

1:38:23We have to burn them and then they be like phoenixes, they become something higher. So if that makes sense. Yes. So the merging is a beautiful subtle experience where we gradually return to our source, you know, to the cosmic consciousness. So contemplation done over a lifetime starts to kind of give you a merged experience with existence. You know, that experience I had at the beginning where I was merged with the, you know, some of us have had those experiences, but contemplation lowers us into that state very gently. It's a very, very gentle practice. That's why I love it. It's not intense.

1:39:07I mean, it can be intense. The pivoting experiences can be very intense, but in itself is very subtle. It's very background, but creating those pauses, actually, is all you have to do. It's all you have to know. But I lay out in the book, those three phases. I call them also insight, breakthrough epiphany. those are the three kind of signposts. Like an insight is something that occurs through the mind, like that mind of light. Suddenly you understand something mentally that you did. That's the thing about epiphany. I'm only coming to realize this now, listening to you speak that epiphany is not really a discovery.

1:39:45It's a recognition of something that is. It's just being able to see something that is that you couldn't see before. Yeah. Exactly. A breakthrough is I see it as an emotional kind of realm where something emotionally has to move through. And then the epiphany, which is a deeper, it connects more to the merging, is a physical. It's when something is a pattern is physically transformed. You remember I said earlier that the physical body takes the longest. The merging takes the longest because this is the core, this is the core system matter. So for patterns to actually change at a fundamental physical level, it's like we have to have an epiphany.

1:40:34And epiphany makes it sound like it's something mental, but it's not. It'll be a physical experience. You may sweat. You may go through a diet change. You may go, you know, something occurs in your body, a response where you have to shake off the pattern. And sometimes it could be intense tears. I've seen epiphanies in people sometimes. I've seen a woman break down in one of my contemplative courses and just see her racked by kind of, you know, shaking. That sometimes it's not always like that, it can be very subtle, but sometimes it is very physical. Often the most common thing is tears. And there can be tears of joy or awe, or there can be tears of grief.

1:41:24But tears almost always come within epiphany. Where do you see the line between science and spirituality? I think it's coming closer, particularly as I said earlier, like when scientists begin to kind of reach the limits of paradox and I realize that there's a place where these two things kind of kiss each other. You know I wonder sometimes where the science will kind of surrender at a certain stage and maybe thousands of years from now where we've got everything we want, you know, we've got all we need in terms of there's a part of our brain that the left brain that has to know how everything works, but I wonder whether at some point, you know, even an evolved scientist might come, there are many of them, right?

1:42:19And they come to that place where often in their later life where they start to kind of drop more into that imagination, you know, where they go into like the mystic because they realize they're not going to get there with the logical bits and pieces mind. But I think also there's a place where the mystical side, as it incorporates more, it can't push away the scientific, as it incorporates more of that, which it feels like it's happening more. There are jinkies as an attempt, I guess it's my attempt to bring those two together, but I'm not a scientist. So through the jinkies you get a poet mystics view through DNA.

1:43:02Yes. You know, it's a poet's view through DNA. But why not? Is that no DNA? It's a beautiful scientific thing. Like, let's have musicians do that. Let's have poets do that. Let's have all these different people come together with different skills and, you know, look through the same lenses. That is seems to be where I hope things are going. Because I think you only when you look through multiple lenses rather than people who are too specialized Do you see the truth you begin to grasp it? Would you agree with that? Yes, absolutely How much of your world view comes from something learned versus something intuitive?

1:43:46Yeah, it's it's mostly insured The learn stuff is just the kind of storyline, the narrative, the deeper stuff is intuitive. Like, in my morning contemplation, as you know, I love tea, and I sit with my little tea in the morning, my little Chinese teas, and I contemplate for like an hour. And in those morning contemplations, usually before dawn, you know, in the gloom, as the lights coming, my intuition is just, is at its peak, you know, my, what the Nations call the ye, the wisdom mind. There's always like 10 minutes of throwing stuff out, of just clutter. You wake up and there's clutter. And so I just let the clutter leave and then I kind of start entering into, and the tea helps actually, because it helps kind of propel you a little bit quicker.

1:44:39And then you go into this wisdom mind and I just wait sometimes in that state and I get profound intuitions about stuff. Sometimes it's universal, sometimes it's quite emotional, but just deep things that I kind of remember or revelations. And sometimes I just often just let them go. I just let them pass through. Do you ever take notes? Sometimes. I'm quite playful now because it's like a state I can enter quite easily. So I sometimes just go, I think I just can... I sometimes think, oh, there's a whole book in that. You know, I have a big revelation. I'm like, oh my God, I need to capture that.

1:45:18But then there's a part of me that just goes, nah, someone else will get it. And occasionally I do. Occasionally I go, I'm definitely going to make a podcast around that because I just can't resist. But yeah, deep things like recently I was thinking about the sun and stars and my intuition, because there's this question in science of like where do they get their fuel from? and my intuition is that they draw their fuel from the void around them. That's my intuition. Everything that is burning or on fire is drawing its energy from whatever they call it dark and it dark matter. It's drawing it from the void around it because that's how it is for me.

1:46:08When I'm in this deep state, like the wisdom comes from nothing. It just comes out of nowhere and then it surges up and I haven't consciously done anything. And I think that I see that how the universe works is that one pole draws from the opposite. So I think that a really good scientist follows their intuition. They have intuitions like that. And in the Jinky's book, I put a rather rascally idea at some point. I said, you know, the new science may be not founded on doubt. It may be founded on certainty. So doubt is when you don't know how something, you know, and you build up a storyline and you check this and try that.

1:46:51And it's like a long ladder to get to like understanding and then maybe truth. But the other way is like, you have a cellular certainty. and then you set out to prove it. Because I know this is correct. So maybe you could save quite a lot of time with that approach. So I don't know. I mean, there must be scientists that do that. They follow their hunches. I'm sure there are. And just think, I feel this to be true. I'm going to... I'm sure everything starts with an idea. And then you work from there. Yeah. When did your relationship to the tea ceremony first begin? One of the guys I work with Eliza, his name is, he is a kind of tea monk and so he learned from his teacher who's a great guy called Poe who lives in Portland and Poe's like studied tea for like 30 years.

1:47:49But as this real character, he's a Jewish guy from New Jersey but you know with a real kind great sense of humour, but he's absorbed in all the different tea traditions and I guess built up a kind of reservoir of knowledge and he's quite respected in the tea world as well, but he's a kind of maverick tea master, so he doesn't follow any of the rules of the traditional schools and he's just he basically he serves love from love but that's it though it's all bad so he's just himself and he doesn't bother about all the perfect ways of pouring and he's learned all that and forgotten it all. So I'm kind of of his lineage in a way where we don't really, we don't it's very, very informal.

1:48:41So how much do we know about the formal T -Sermonies from history? Quite a lot. Not so much, but the Chinese have had less of a ceremony than the Japanese. The Japanese took it and then it went through Zen. And so because it got put through the lens of Zen, everything became deeply structured and aiming at perfection and exquisiteness. And whereas the Chinese way of tea is a little more informal, it was more about gathering together, chatting, doing business deals, trading, sharing, laughing. and is more familial in that way. And so I think our tradition is more in that vein. You know, it's more about just drinking really delicious teas and sitting in the field of their energetics together.

1:49:35And seeing what they do to a conversation, like a tea like this, that we're having quite a rare tea. This is a 90 year old tea. So has serious age. and it's an u -long, you know, which wouldn't normally age, but some of these teas are just incredible. How long does it steep for? These ones, they're different depending on the tea. The u -longs you don't want to do too long. How long for you to the temperature of the water? And the temperature for a new long is cooler than the temperature for a pura. A pura tea is more fermented. Darker, I would drink them more in the mornings. Some people have them in the evenings, but I'm a, they're strong.

1:50:18They're kind of a little bit over towards coffee, but they're not. They're nothing like coffee, but they have an impact. They're black and dark and forest floor notes and mushroomy, some of them. I'm very grounding. Whereas Oolongs are more heart -tees. I love the part of the sort of ceremony of it. It's just looking at the shapes and the swirls and the steam and Isn't that beautiful? Beautiful, so there's a swirling. These are the oils in the tea and a very good quality tea in the oils get released and they form these beautiful, almost universes. They're whirlpin' this. Yeah. Very beautiful. And so drinking tea in a beautiful location at the right time of day with great company It becomes a sort of a contemplative practice in its own right.

1:51:18So sometimes you would serve tea in silence and other times you might put music on, you might use a little bit of incense, you might just chat, you don't have a dialogue. It's basically just tea. So what I learned from Poe is just serve it with love and drink it with love and let the tea do the rest.

1:51:49So yeah, enjoy your 90 year old who long would see who begin. Yeah. Without any formality, cheers. It's lovely to be here. and really get a good smell of it as well. Woody. Mm -hmm. But all kinds of layers and notes in there, from the age. And the other thing about these teas is as you drink them, as you keep steeping them, they change. So the initial first sip, the first pot that you drink, some people throw it away, actually. you know, because it's like you're flushing the age of the tea and then you're, and then you start fresh. Actually, I quite like drinking the first one because it's sort of, even though it has a bit of, might have a bit of dust on it, it's just part of the experience.

1:52:46And so the tradition is that you kind of drink, I think we did this before, you drink up the chakras with each pot. And so, you know, there's this beautiful doused or zen Chinese writings by tea masters talking about the seven layers of tea and the seven pots. So yeah, it's a beautiful metaphor really. But yeah, the tea develops as you drink it.

1:53:19And who longs you tend to sip? Because they're heart, they're heart based tea, they're lighter in colour, they're lighter, but they're quite elevating because it has so much age on it. It's also, I think it has wisdom in it. Where do you find it and make you roll tea? It's not easy. You have to be, you know, you enter into the tea world, the wild tea world, not just shops and online places. You can't get this kind of to - It's just like a black market of sorts. It's a club. Yeah and once you know people, they will introduce you to people and then there are collectors just like there are collectors of wine and you would pay a lot of money for a tea like this, especially when you know it's provenance, you know.

1:54:02And there's a lot of fakes out there, of course. You know, people going, yeah, this is a 30 year old tea and it's just a fake.

1:54:12I Gia who has very good provenance, provenance, he's from Taiwan, T -Master. And we know if the tea is from Taiwan or from Taiwan. This is from Taiwan. It's from Taiwan. But it's not often you're drinking along with this age, it's extraordinary. Can you tell the difference from the taste of the teas where they're from? The different provinces have tastes. Yeah. I mean, it's like wine. there's so many different types and it's all one tea though it's all one Plenty the same leaf yeah But the conditions of the different places change it exactly and how they handle How it's been processed? How it's been cared for how it's been stored where it's been stored?

1:54:59You know among in the tea world people will taste it tea and they can tell you instant a good tea person I'll tell you instantly if it's been stored in Hong Kong for example Because people would deliberately store some teas in Hong Kong where it's damp and hot, and the damp kind of increases the fermentation a little bit, and it gives it a certain flavour, certain, you know, which is very different from if it's been stored in mainland China somewhere, or, you know, in their mountains or, and a lot of teas are stored in Hong Kong. And what's the process from the time that the leaves are picked?

1:55:36It depends again on the tea and I'm not an expert in this and it depends on what kind of tea. Typically, is it sun dried? Some of them will put it in the sun, they'll give it a little heat to oxidise the leaves to stop it from rusting to go oxidising. So they just sort of stops it. So they give it the burnish it in a pan and then they'll start fermenting it in different ways. depends on who long has been treated very differently from the puras, which are much more processed in terms of fermentation. They're kind of like a pile of compost that they're turned. Other teas are laid out under the stars deliberately to ingest certain energies and all the moon.

1:56:21All kinds of ways of doing it. And of course then there's people that really take care of the land and it's organic. And a lot of these teas, these old ones are wild teas, so they're from tea trees in the mountains that have grown wild, and the Aboriginal people go out with the baskets on their backs, and they find these old trees, and then they pick the leaves, they climb them, and they put the leaves in their basket, and they bring them back. And so it's a, from a pure a permaculture environment, it's from a wild environment with monkeys and things, and the biodiversity. As opposed to most of the tea that's drunk around the world, which is plantation, monocrop, monoculture.

1:57:07So, there's very different kinds of teasies if you can find them. So you kind of need to be in the cognizant of the tea world to find these really good teas. and so each time you refill the pot and we do seven. Well you can do as many as you want depending on the tea but yeah this will definitely go seven brews and you'll see it'll change its color it's depth, it's intensity, the second one usually gives you a much stronger kind of because the tea has woken up, the tea was asleep, it was dormant, 90 years dormant, lying there waiting for this moment. Po would say it really has waited for this moment, it's now in full service to you, it's fulfilling its dharma, which I love, I love the way of a sort of magical way of looking at it.

1:58:08So the second one usually gives you a kind of a louder announcing of its true nature. And you do this for yourself every morning? Yeah, it's a private practice and I love, I mean I love sharing it. I have this kind of metaphor that I tell people about that. I always have two cups and I think it's a good sign for just, it's a good allegory of life, always take two cups with you. because you never know who will show up. So even if I'm sitting in the wild somewhere on my own with a tea. You've got two cups. I've two cups just in case a stranger walks by. And so there's always an open invitation. Yeah.

1:58:48So the second round doesn't have the same experience on top of the tea. It might do if you look at it, but there probably will be oils continue to come out if you get the light right. They are still coming out. Yeah, I can see them in my cup.

1:59:08It's much less pronounced than the first round. Uh -huh. Yeah, so see how it tastes. Stronger aroma.

1:59:20And so really, you know, for me, the teaching of tea is all about its energetics. This is why even if you have a fake tea, if you really listening to the energetics, it might still be a powerful tea. It depends on what it does inside you. And so you kind of, one of the beauties of tea is the drinking tea is that you're invited to go beyond taste. So the taste is a good indicator and the smell, but you're asked to really go deeper and and do what is this tea doing inside you? So the drinker is participating in with the tea. Exactly. And I think that's what makes it a beautiful sense of communion and sometimes when I'm sitting with friends and we're drinking tea and we'll say, so what do you feel?

2:00:13And everyone will describe a different feeling. Usually in the body, I feel it here, I feel an opening here, and sometimes you can close your eyes and see if you, you know, it's a plant medicine after all. It's a plant medicine that you can ingest daily, but different from unlike kind of most plant medicines, it's very integrating into your everyday life, so you can drink it. Often. I tend to slurp it. Yeah, slurping is But still it's interesting to drink a tea that's that old, older than neither of us. Yeah. You know, something alive in our systems of that age. Mm -hmm. Very good for the microbiome as well.

2:01:10Do you feel anything? I feel it in my upper chest. Mm, me too. Like a vibration or a fluttering.

2:01:23Do you find your relationship to drinking tea changes over time?

2:01:31I think it's like a meditation practice, something that just gets deeper. You find layers and refinements, especially as you drink more tea and wider varieties, because a tea enthusiast like me, I'll drink many different teas, I'm always interested. It's like looking for the grail, you're looking for. Is the goal looking for the one you most love or is it the variety that's interesting? It's the variety that's interesting. And some, you know, like for instance I have a tea that I found online in a Chinese website, it was from 1968 and it was a block that was made in the cultural revolution when the individualizing of tea was taken away from the Chinese and it was all just suddenly there were rules of this is how you make tea and suddenly there was an imposition of control over the tea as there was over the people and so that tea I wondered about that tea and I thought wow I bet that tea tastes disgusting because it's just been, it's a monote, it's like it's not, it's not, no one has put their own flavor or stamp on it, it's all been homogenized.

2:02:49But it was the only thing that people were drinking, so they must have actually leaned on it heavily during difficult times when they're out in the fields, they all drank this tea. So I was, I thought that tea's are going to really put me in touch with the kind of wounding of those times, the loss of freedom, but also it's going to put me in touch with like ordinary people who just were suffering in the fields and they drank this tea together and they probably drew enjoyment from it. So when I tasted it and it was pretty inharmonious, you know, but I also got a lot of love out of it, you know, so even though like technically or structurally, it's not a well -made tea as you'd expect because it's homogenized.

2:03:36There was a lot of love in it. It's almost like it contained the people, people's hearts, probably one of the few breaks they had from during difficult times. So, yeah, tea, it's about the diversity. Sometimes I will drink teas and I think that's really not nice. I usually won't go on drinking it because I just think like life's too short to drink tea that actually really is revolting. And I'll just throw it and I'll just try another tea. And sometimes there are mornings like that. I've just got... This is one of those mornings where tea's just not working for me. If you find one that you like is usually in supply where you can keep getting it or not necessarily.

2:04:16Not necessarily. And that's the beauty of it. Like some of the very best teas. I'll say to my teacher, Po, you got any more of this? And you'll say, that's it. And this is the last kilo. and we'll drink it together and it's just like, and it's a fabulous tea and that's it, it's gone. Yeah, it's the impermanence. Yeah, which I love about tea. And I mean, just recently I discovered a tea that, by fortune, you know, there was one of the most delicious teas I ever drunk and I found that there was quite a fairly large amount of it available and so I invested in some, but that doesn't often happen. that you can actually get for a decent amount, because like fine wine, some of the prices in China, are like off the charts, tens of thousands of dollars for a brick of tea, because of the collectors in China.

2:05:13But at the same time, what Poe, my teacher will say is, you know, a Lipton's tea bag or a Tetley tea bag that's just bogs standard every day tea, you can get just as much love out of it. It's full space. It's as much about the ritual as it is the leaf. It's about, yeah. Ultimately, it's about the love you put in and the sharing, the sense of communion. But there is also a, there is an aesthetic to the process. So I think, you know, people that become are very fine wines because they developed their palate and their olfactory capacities to a fine degree and they refined it. That's the same with tea if you really are listening deeply.

2:06:05You can take such joy from exploring the world of tea and then you collect like, you know, I have a library of teas that I've collected and then you intuitively each morning or whoever's there, you choose the tea that suits the occasion. You know, I had owned with me here today and he had five teas, but I knew that we'd been drinking this one. It was like, it stood up in front of me and went, you need to drink me with Rick. It may not be the best one, but it was just the right one. Yes. You know. And suddenly the oldest. No, it's interesting how the wisdom of the tea, it's inherent in it. It tells you.

2:06:52Exactly. That's exactly it's the teacher. It's a plant. You know, like if you go into the world of plant medicine, if you happen to take ayahuasco or try those kind of things, you know, the indigenous people will call it. This is grandmother or grandfather if it's one of the others and it has a wisdom of it so it has a spirit actually and tea has a spirit all tea has that spirit in it and I think in case of tea it's deep compassion I would say that's it's flavor it's here to serve and all of the world you know it's the second most widely drunk liquid after water So all over the world people pause and drink tea.

2:07:43It's different from coffee which is another world, but tea is really about pausing. It's really about sitting together. Did you grow up with tea in England as well? Not to this afternoon tea. Yeah sure, tea time. Which is always a very enjoyable time of day because you sat down with your parents. Well, I did when they were there. That was the only time, maybe it broke first occasionally, but that would be a bit time my father would be, he loved his tea. So he would come sit down, you'd have your tea and your biscuit. And was it at 4 in the afternoon or something like that? Yeah, something like that.

2:08:24Hubba's four. Yeah. Because it's the third? Third. Yeah. I mean, I consider myself a novice with tea. really compared to other designer. I've been recently reading about this guy called Bysau, who was a Zen -T Master in Kyoto in the 18th century. And it's just a beautiful book that was written about him in his life, and he left fragments of poetry that he wrote. and he was a zen, he went through the zen trainings in his youth and excelled to quite a high level and then packed it all in and went and became a tea cellar, which wasn't done. But he excelled in serving tea and he would wander around the kind of valleys of Kyoto and the forests and he passes by and they'd come and slowly, slowly he became infamous, because people would go and have tea with him and they would have profound experiences because of his presence and the way that he handled the tea and the way he held presence and served them.

2:09:44So a lot of his tea law that has then all the way through it is about, I mean I wish I had some of his things to read here then, but it's about literally what I said about my teacher, Poe, it's love in a tea cup. He put love in a cup. He put truth in a cup by cell because of how he served it. You know, he would say that people who were exhausted by their lives would come and sit and have tea with him and feel completely reinvigorated at every level of their being and leave, you know, kind of reborn. And so he became this whole mendicant kind of guy and he started a whole tradition of the people started to copy him and then there were like people you know that left the temples and became you know beggar booksellers and beggar all kinds of you know became a whole tradition that he's born of the kind of wandering, beggar, salesman.

2:10:47Yeah, I kind of like that idea. It's definitely changing. How'd you find that one? I don't have the language to explain it. I feel like language often is, there's not enough of it for the emotions and the feelings and the flavors that come up. I don't feel that one in the chest in the same way, but I'm also thinking about it being the third cup and focusing on the lower lip. Solar plexus, what do you say? Yeah, it's more, for me, I feel it more, almost like it's left my body, but it's sort of, I don't know, it's out here a bit more. But yeah, if I were to give it a place, it's dropped down. I actually couldn't hear it in my voice, which I think has dropped down and pitch a little bit.

2:11:45What are the other practices that you've found that either pull you deeper into yourself or push you further out of yourself? There are, you know, I use all kinds of occasions and things. You know, I find walking an amazing contemplative thing to do. I'm more of a walker than I am a sitter, I would say. as a lovely quote from central Gustins, Solvitor and Orlando. Do you ever heard that? By walking it has solved. Beautiful. So walking is one of my favorite things. I also run a little bit, which I also find very contemplative. But I'm a non -compressive runner. As in, I don't run for health. I run because I like the space and I like the rhythm.

2:12:51I don't want to run with anyone. People often ask me, you want to come for a run with me. Can I come with you? I don't want to be alone. I want to just be in the rhythm of the run. I don't run particularly fast. I kind of roll a little bit. and through the countryside where I live it's you know and it's quite hilly so and the scenery changes and it's it's beautiful just to be out in the same with walking just to be out with the breeze and the rain or the wind or the smells of nature but yeah certainly being in nature is one of the big things my one of my favorite things is to be with near the river where I live I'm a river lover.

2:13:40River Dart, this is my favourite place in the world for me, the River Dart Valley, it's like a pure, pure valley untouched by humanity. Old mossy oak trees, lots of lichens, you know, you could be totally alone. Yeah, it's beautiful. Wild English River.

2:14:08I don't know, ones that take me out of myself, whether it wouldn't be practices, but anything where I forget to breathe. Yeah, I have a family, I'm a family man, and I notice certain times of the day where pressure kind of builds usually sort of in the evening before supper time, whether, you know, people tired, my wife's tired. I'm getting tired. There's a meal to be made. Daughters arrive home. She's tired. There's a kind of crunch time where I can easily lose my center. But I know that that time, you know, it's like I don't give myself a hard time anymore if I do kind of lose my center. And sometimes I might just snap out I was thinking about it, and I'm like, damn, sorry.

2:15:11It's human. Yeah, those moments.

2:15:17This tea, by the way, is called inner master. I think there's always layers of mastery. Lair upon layers, like the infinity we were talking about earlier. It's the fourth poor. Yeah. Yeah.

2:15:37Go shout another cup. I'd do something.

2:15:43Enjoy.

2:15:51See, I think it's getting hotter. That one is quite hot. Burning with fingers. It's funny.

2:16:02We can let it sit for a little while.

2:16:08I think it's in its prime now.

2:16:13Have you ever learned anything about reading tea leaves? Yeah, that's where the tradition comes from. Doesn't. Yeah, not so much with who longs, but with some of the deep poo hairs where the fragments It just depends on your pot. The fragments come out. I think you enter this field of transcendence a little bit after the seventh cup. That's when the traditionalism may be to look at the tea leaves. Through that mind's eye, say what you see. It's funny because I think of the practice of reading the tea leaves about the TV's, but it really is the whole journey leading up to the reading that's really set the stage to allow it to happen.

2:17:01Exactly. Yeah. It's funny how these things like that just get woven into our lives without us realizing where they crept in. I was sitting on a beach A few years ago, drinking an amazing tea that someone friend had given me. And the tide was coming in and I did the full seven cups just sitting there for an hour and a longer. And after the seventh cup, because I was alone, I was just holding it there and I was just looking at the seventh cup before I drunk it. and these words came into my head. It's all just a storm in a tea cup. And I realized that expression storm in a tea cup. I was like, where has that come from?

2:17:57And I totally got the joke because I was in that state where the entire universe was in my tea cup. And I realized that we make so much fuss about our lives, our tiny lives. And I'd been looking around me and seeing all the tiny lichens and little creatures all around. And I sort of realized how small I was. It was a beautiful moment I started laugh out loud actually at the joke. T epiphanies. Tip ephanies.

2:18:30It's really getting good. When did you first fall in love with poetry? I think Wordsworth turned me on to that, you know, William Wordsworth, English, romantic poet, reading his works at school probably. I mean, I studied Shakespeare and things before that, but, you know, like we all did at kind of those scut, well, not all of us, but some of us. But Wordsworth kind of, he was a nature poet, and his poetry is very accessible. and I just fell in love with the kind of aura that he created in his poetry and kind of loved his name as well. I think it's that cool name for a poet.

2:19:19And yeah, and I think I started experimenting myself in my kind of late teens.

2:19:33Did anyone overly. Yeah, I love the sound of words. I was also lazy at school but I like I didn't want to read the novels. I just can't just do poems, they're really short. So they also say Latin very concise, fused amount of words. Yeah. And they say much more often than me, long times. Yeah. And I think sometimes people or mistake poetry for the ability to write poems, whereas for me poetry is about living poetically. So even if you never have written a poem, you might be one of the most poetic people because of the way you're living. So it's more of a way of life. And a poem is just a symbol that you said.

2:20:23is about distilling beauty and truth into a small space. If you can do that, you have the heart of a poet, whether you do it through music, whether you do it through your business, whether you do anything, sport, anything you can distill down to like mastery. It's poetic. So yeah, for me it's more than, it's not about poems.

2:20:51My favorite writer is who I discovered, I love to share, is a Hungarian writer called Hamvash Beller. Have I ever mentioned him to you before? He'll have. B -E -L -A. He's not been in translated much into English, but there is some stuff online, and some of it's not very well translated. But he's such a free thinker. He died in about the 60s, 70s, I think. He's kind of Hungary's Shakespeare. but he didn't write plays. What he did is he mastered the essay, the short kind of prose essay, but he wrote with such poetic insight. And he's sometimes a devilish in his, I don't know, his turn of phrase, his metaphor, there's no other right I've ever come across, like his, like the thinks or rights like him, he's completely unique.

2:21:47and has this beautiful, aesthetic sense of life in the cosmos. And you can tell he was vastly widely read and fascinated by the mysteries. And had read the E. Cheng and the Bible and the Daudet Cheng and every mystical book known. And was a very, you know, had an incredible memory as well, one of those amazing people. and then because of what happened in Hungary with the communism, he was put to work in a factory. So a lot of his life was just spent as a factory worker, this completely wasteded in a life. And a lot of his works were lost or burned, his master works. But still quite a bit remains, but as I said, a lot of it's not translated.

2:22:37I actually found a Hungarian friend and a housewife and I, you know, a single mother, say, and she, I paid her to translate his works for me. His main sacred work is called Sienta Sacra, a sacred science. It never been translated into English, three volumes. And so she translated it for me roughly, kind of crudely, but well. And so it was this incredibly exciting feeling of reading, being the first English person and ever to read this master work of mystic wisdom that tracked from the very beginning of human thinking to up right up to date now. And a lot of his insights have kind of, I've suffused into some of my works.

2:23:27I'd love to read it. But he's one of his beautiful pieces that's translated very well. It's called a philosophy of wine. And it's a sort of 80 page essay about wine, but he uses wine as a metaphor, but it's exquisite. It's really beautiful. And he talks about, you know, he's, he obviously was a lover of wine. He was a lover of everything fine. You know, and he's, he talks about, you had to drink a certain wine on a certain time of year, but only if these, only if a woman was coming. And she, you know, and she had to be under 50 and then you drink this wine. If she was over 50, you drink this wine.

2:24:08And then you had to have it in these cups at that time of year, you couldn't have it out glasses. And then everything, so he had refined down every single kind of, like a formula. And he goes into the kind of, what does he call it? The, something like the matrix of the mouth, mouth harmonics. And he explores mouth harmonics and he talks about what the mouth really is for. You know, and so he names three things. It's talking, the mouth puts out, drinking the mouth takes in, kissing the mouth does both. And so he combines the kissing as the highest form of mouth harmonics. And he kind of lays out this beautiful tapestry of thinking around sensuality.

2:25:01And then he describes in the zones on a woman in a way that is so beautiful. The different sense at different places in a woman's body. He's an artist, I would say, of the senses. He took it to its very highest pitch. So I'm a lover of his writings and his works. and yeah, you could find that philosophy of wine online, it's really worth the read. He has a rant at the communists in it as well, he's a good rant. He calls them the atheists.

2:25:41But it's very amusing and very, very sharp. I mean, you would not want to be on the other side of this man.

2:25:51Number five. And you started writing poetry soon after reading. Words were really... Yeah, I guess. I had a few kind of early attempts that were not particularly good. And then I think I just... Gerard Manley Hopkins was amazing. I don't know if you heard his writing. He creates images, but it's all about the sounds. So he just creates beautiful sounds. So you could listen to it if you didn't understand English. and it sounds so slow and beautiful musical, lyrical. And so I kind of took a lot of inspiration from him and when I started to write, I started to hear the sounds of words following each other, flowing into each other.

2:26:37And I think I brought that into my writing. Do you need your work out loud when you're writing it? No, I hear it. It's very a kind of... I just hear you're writing it. I hear it and I hear what's coming next. And I hear, if I read it back, sometimes I'll be like, that's why that doesn't fit. That sentence is too long or too short or there's a repetition of a word that didn't quite work or... So I've become very specific in my... It has to sound right, it's like the tea, it has to be served in the right way. I think what we'd learn getting deep into anything is that same appreciation in detail it applies to everything, applies to everything we do.

2:27:26For me even the sound is even more important than the meaning in a way, because the sound kind of conveys the frequency of the meaning as opposed to if you do not know what I mean like this. It's the gaps that are part of the words as well. So if you don't get the gaps in the right places, the pauses, it doesn't hold the frequency of the truth that you're trying to convey. You don't want to get caught in trying to make the words bring the meaning. If you know what I mean. The The meaning comes between the words. Yes. And the work is being done by the sound current. That's a nice way of putting it.

2:28:15Yeah. I know I learned TM when I was young. In TM, you get a mantra given to you, but you're not told what the mantra means. And I don't know if it has a meaning. Yes. It's more about the sound current and repeating the sound current internally. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny we're talking about sound currents on the fifth cup. Hmm. Throat. Funny how that happens.

2:28:48Coincidence.

2:28:52I would think if I was drinking seven cups of something, unless I knew that seven was the number, I don't think I would count. Like if I have a picture of water and if I'm drinking water through the day, I would never count the number of cups. It's interesting practice to stay aware of the number of cups. It's also nice because you kind of have an ending. It's always nice to kind of feel there's a structure. And I like the feeling of bringing it through the body. Yeah. And it's about the length of a meditation. It's an hour or something.

2:29:32Just about enough water.

2:29:38Tell me about the clean space. The clean space. I guess that's a practice we can all do. Isn't it having a clean space? It's one of the suggested practices in the back of my book. It's difficult if you have a cluttered space externally. I think it's difficult to then touch in with an uncluttered space internally. So I think there's a relationship there to be contemplated. You know, I like for me living in a family where kids are coming and going and dropping stuff all over the place. I've had to learn not to kind of overly try and control in that because it just becomes a pain. But I do have my space that is, you know, a place where I know is there's clarity and there's not too much stuff.

2:30:42and there's kind of order and like in this room there's just lovely clear, clean, white, crisp openness and I think that's so good for the soul. There's no distractions. Yeah. If you go into it, like look at the artwork from China and Japan and you see it or music even like a lot of it is emptiness. In fact there's more emptiness in Japanese art than there is content. I think it's like 60, 40 something like maybe a bit more in terms of emptiness. There's more emptiness and same with calligraphy like big white page just a few marks on it. There's such a beauty to that, like those lingering spaces.

2:31:35And then it really brings a focus to what is there. So I lived by that philosophy of only have things that are purely functional or very beautiful in your space. Hopefully both at the same time. That's the ultimate. Yeah. And so it's really nice thing to do is to clear your space, clear someone else's space, help them do that. It's a very therapeutic thing to do. And then having that space. This is a sense of accomplishment when you do it. I feel a sense of relief when I tackle a task of organizing something because it always feels overwhelming in the beginning stages, but that feeling of the peace and balance of cleanliness really feels good.

2:32:29Anything you can bring simplicity to. Like if it's a business, for example, how do you simplify a business? Or a house or a... How do you simplify things? That's such an incredible challenge. But someone who lives in an empty space, he becomes very wary of bringing things into it. It's like when you may be out and about and see something, or this is beautiful. I'd love to have this at home, and then you think about it in your empty space. Like, what's going to take over everything? I know. I think really hard now about taking someone's gifts for that reason, because I'm not sure I want someone to give me a gift.

2:33:12Yes. Because sometimes they're just giving me a problem. Yes. I don't want books or good gifts. Books are fine. And books are good to have, good to have around. Yeah. You feel good with books around. Yeah. Because you can put them together on the shelf. Yeah. But sometimes people, you know, people were sending me books, sending me their books. And I often don't have time to read them. And so it's difficult to know what to do with them. I don't want to just put them on my shelf and not read them. Yeah. Because a few years ago, I edited all my books back down to the essence books, which was a great thing to do.

2:33:48Yes. Yeah, so yeah, I don't want clutter. It becomes a discipline that. And the idea that our outside surroundings influence our inner life. So many things come from that, the simple understanding that what's going on outside is going to influence what's going on inside. Yeah. But at the same time, there's that, you know, you might be married to someone who's just not like that, in which case you have to kind of, if you love them and you're not going to leave them presumably, because they're untidy, you have to expand your own ability to hold that space. And even allow, because I think compassion allows for anything.

2:34:38right? So it's about even being okay with a little bit of clutter, you know, if you can't control it. But yeah, I think it's a great, I think you're really good at simplifying. You know, you have that down really beautifully. I see that. I lived in a house in Los Angeles filled of antiques and then I got a house at the beach. The beach house was empty and I just ended up never going back to the other house. And I liked the empty house. Yeah. For when I first moved to California, I moved into an empty house. And it was great living in an empty house. And then over the years, I got some furniture and it was never better than when it was empty.

2:35:22Yeah.

2:35:25Number seven. Last one, yeah.

2:35:33The sixth is really the peak. The seventh is coming back to earth. Closing. Yeah, I've actually had experiences on the seventh cup where it's often just that very back to ordinaryness. You know, the spiritual plane has been ascended and then you're back like chopping wood and carrying water.

2:36:04The change is colour, it's quite good. You have much lighter. You can taste more of the water, you know, the minerals in the water. So if you have a really good water, I mean, that's a key thing in tea is the water. You have good quality water. There's a story about the guy, the master, sending his student off to get the water, to fetch the water and he tells him to go and get it from the top spring. And it's a long, long walk. This is the tea master. And the guy walks and walks and walks for miles and miles and miles and then he goes to just below the spring because he doesn't want to, so there's like several springs and he's just want to do the last little steep climb.

2:36:41But it's like 500 yards further and he gets it from there. And of course he brings it back in and then the master says, you didn't get the right water when he tasted it. You didn't get it from the spring. the source. Yeah.

2:36:59Amazing if you could actually, you know, tell that from drinking water, just water. That was beautiful. Thank you so much for the tea ceremony. It's a real pleasure. I love it. Yeah. Wended 55 come in the series as they were coming. Yeah, I think maybe about two -thirds through something like that. At the time did it feel different than the others? Yeah, definitely. What was different? Well, I couldn't come up with a word for the gift, right? So, there was the only one I just I couldn't find a word and so the word I had for the city, the highest level was freedom, freedom. So I knew it was the key of freedom and the shadow is the key of victimization.

2:37:53So you have the victim side. So it's kind of a master key of the whole gene keys really because they're all about victim states, the shadows and the cities are all about freedom, forms of freedom. And so I had to trust my contemplation because it would always locate the word and somewhere in the pantheon. And the fact that it didn't, I then contemplated that. So I went into a long contemplation where why isn't that one? And then I had this realization that it was the key where change was taking place. So that there was an anomaly. And so in a way, it was where the gift becomes the city and in a way it's where we transform first.

2:38:49So it's a place in our genome, it's a place in our DNA where the transformation of consciousness begins. And so it's almost like a in genetics where everything's written in sequences. It's almost like you splice that, like the evolutionary current has spliced in a new sequence and it kind of interrupted an old sequence and spliced in this new mutation and from that point onwards everything changes. So it's difficult to explain because I kind of saw it and felt it. So it's from here that all the keys begin to change. Do you know what 55 was in the original each end? Yeah, it's often called abundance, actually.

2:39:38So it is that kind of, there's different ways of which people have translated the original term, but it is generally about this kind of explosive flowering of freedom. And so it has that relationship. And it's dark side is definitely quite intense because it is that very deep, emotional, victim energy. Is the valence always the same, the more powerful the gift is, the darker the shadow is, is there a ways of balance like that? I think so, I mean there's definitely a relationship. The Jean -Kies is, you know, it's like a holographic language. So all the shadows are one thing. They're all the same state and all the gifts are all the creative transformation of that state in different ways.

2:40:34Like yours we looked at was, you know, the creative process of, you know, the word is freshness. So there's this constant freshness finding its way towards beauty. And at the shadow it's that kind of deep melancholic entropy. That's Jinky One. So all the keys are kind of like that. So if you look in one key, you're just reading them all. Which is a bit of a joke in a way because every single key if you read each one you're reading the same story over and over and over again. Just from a different aspect. But this 155, it does tell the story of all the keys, but it also tells a prophecy. It holds a prophecy.

2:41:14That was why I was kind of a bit blown away by it because it suddenly had this different quality to it. And then as that opened up in me, a whole stream of information, knowledge, wisdom, memory kind of came through me as I was writing the book and I was really quite shocked. What does 55 predict? It's about what I call the future human. And so I think that the reasoning behind the whole Genkis book and the writings and the teachings are that they're here now at this time preparing us for something that's coming, a future potential mutation in human beings. And we've mutated in the past or transmuted from one species to another.

2:42:07and you know, our genes do that. They create fork sometimes. And then often an old species withers on the vine and a new one grafted on comes and starts a new kind of phase of evolution. And so that's what I saw felt kind of heard and was filled with from this key and it's sort of message. So it concerns that transformation and it has a beautiful allegory woven into it which is you can read in the in the key it talks about it's called heavenly hydraulics and it's the life the allegory is the life cycle of a dragonfly and it's why when you look at the Jean -Keeze books you see these dragonflies sitting in them and it's a symbol you see on my name and you see it because it's kind of the prophetic part of the wisdom and the beauty of the life cycle of the dragonfly is it starts its life as a nymph and it lives underwater it's called a nymph and it lives for like two or three years as an underwater predator right that's its life and it doesn't know anything other than that it's kind of like luster it feeds on all kinds of things that it finds underwater, other insects and little fish and things.

2:43:27And then one day in its life cycle, something different happens, usually in the summer or the spring, late spring, it will find a stalk of grass or a reed or something and it will latch onto it with its legs and it will crawl up it out towards the sun and it crawls for the first time ever out of the water and sits in the air clinging to a stalk of grass or a reed and then this incredible process happens I should say actually before this happens that there's several stages called moths where the dragonfly like a butterfly goes through internal changes so it has several of those while it's underwater, which lead to this leaving the water environment and then coming up into the sun.

2:44:21And then what happens is within a very short space of time, you know, compared to its life cycle, its back starts to split open and this new creature that's hidden inside it emerges. And you know, it has a thorax, it's this incredible big thorax that just pushes out from the old creature that's still clinging to the stalk. And you might think sometimes, I wonder what it thinks if it could think at that moment what the hell is going on. Anyway, so the water in it, because it's a water creature, is actually the energy that forces the new creature to open. It's literally a hydraulic process where the water element pushes the thorax and the wings and brings it out of the old creature.

2:45:16And then it's sitting there, it's sitting there kind of drying off. And it's got, and it sort of waits for a puff of wind. And then it's off. And it's this multi -coloured iridescent, extraordinary, one of the most aerodynamic, complex hunters that the world in the insect kingdom, sort of very, very ancient, you know, dragonflies were here with the dinosaurs. And so it sort of skips a step in several steps, you could think, because it goes from the water element to the air element. So it's an extraordinary metaphor for consciousness. And that was the metaphor that came through the 55th Genes key, that if we are that dragonfly, If we are that lava, that nymph and it's underwater stage and we're in those victim patterns, you know, because we don't know anything else.

2:46:13We can't even imagine the future. It's unimaginable because it's so far from our reality if you can imagine. It's the butterflies that love lovely metaphor as well. But in a way, I think the keys, these jinkies, the 55th key especially suits the dragonfly because it's the shift from the water element to the air element and the water element in a way is our desire nature and it's our desire nature and our sexuality and our creativity all that energy that actually is the thing that's going to transform us. And if you read the book, if you read the 55, it talks about the solar plexus that's a lot.

2:46:53It's like it's located. This change, this mutation is located in the solar plexus center. And this is something that ra of the human design system also predicted. And so I was aware of this when the jinkies came along and I sort of put it to the back of my mind slightly. And then when this dragonfly of the 55th key wrote itself and emerged, I suddenly realized what he'd been talking about, that this center here and us, this solar plexus area, But we're now understanding biologically as like an incredible kind of, it's where most of our DNA lives in the bacteria in our gut, you know, 18, 90 % of our DNA is actually bacteria living in our gut.

2:47:42And it's considered our second brain, yeah. Exactly. Yeah. But in a way, it's our first brain because it's, it has a higher intelligence at some level, it's then the thinking brain, it's it because it bypasses thought. And also it, you know, it's instinctive, it's spontaneous. That's why it's the gut. It's talking about having a gut feeling. So my understanding is that it, that there's a mutation and this is again what RAS said, there'll be a mutation that takes place in the equipment of our solar plexus. And that our new awareness will be born from that center. And so in a way, our new awareness is the awareness of these higher states that manifest these cities that are in every jinky.

2:48:32Yeah, so it's entering into miraculous domains, it's entering into a kind of, that's what it's a pro, it has a prophetic flavor to it because it kind of has to because it's a quantum leap in involves a quantum leap. Going from this creature to this creature involves a quantum leap. So the future human is something that we can't quite imagine. It's so far removed from where we are now, but also the prediction, the prophecy is that it will happen quite quickly. As the dragonfly has, there's been a long slow buildup. That's like a great awakening. Exactly. So it's the great, and then it talks about the great change, you know, which is like obviously these times were born in.

2:49:19And I see that quite broadly, like not. I wonder if these great changes that we go through are related to technology changes. If some new breakthrough in technology changes the way we live and then through the new way we live, we adapt to this new way and change. I think it's absolutely completely involved Because even the birth of the internet, in a sense, is a kind of precursor of our future awareness. And our future awareness is an internet. But the mistake, sometimes I think that some people might make, is thinking that it's technology that's going to be the part that kind of advances us. Instead of realizing we are the technology, we contain the technology.

2:50:06and the outer technology is a metaphor or a symbol or a reflection or a mirror of what we actually contain inside and that's why it's kind of manifesting. So what I'm talking about is a networked consciousness in which I think many people have also is feeling that that's a potential for us, that humanity at its next level of evolution, could become a networked consciousness, but without the need for external technology. And actually, as a telepathic. Yeah. And I think it's possible that it was more the case. Yeah. And we got away from it with the outer technology, we lost some of our gifts. I think so.

2:50:55Yeah. It was what I also understood from, when I wrote the 55th Genki, and some of the stuff I wrote, I kind of read it back to myself after I just thought that that's really outlandish. I really wanted to. Is it fascinating to do birth something? And then to be able to go back to it and wonder where it came from. It's very unusual. And especially something like a... That sounds prophetic. I was a little bit uncomfortable to be honest. I still am a bit like a whale. But it felt an integral part of the whole. and it felt like after that, key came suddenly everything took on a new meaning and the reason for the whole teachings and the wisdom and this new version of the Echane coming, if you like, is to prepare us for this next stage, you know, us crawling up the stalk as a species and not quite knowing what we're going to become.

2:51:53And in a way, you could look at everything that's happening around us as part of that process. It does feel like things are changing very quickly. When you say that the 55th key was a change, was it a change in the writing of the last third or was it a change in 56, 57, 58, 59 through 64? No, I think it just, because I didn't write them in order. Yeah. Sorry, I wrote them spontaneously. Although there might be something in that that you've just said because sequences are fascinating. fascinating and we don't understand why they come in the order they come but it seems to have some logic that we may not understand.

2:52:33I think you're right. I think you're right. I'd love to explore that more one day. The actual original sequence it was called in Chi Chi Ching was called the King When sequence where the hexagrams were laid out in this order and there is a beautiful story that unfurls you know through them so you could say that yes freedom of the in the 55 then opens up into the intoxicated state of the 56 and then dawns the clarity of the 57. And you could look at this whole, there's lots of ways in which you can kind of tell these stories through the patterns. Yeah, I think another nice one, we talk about the these thing and Jean -Kies called the Code on Rings.

2:53:18And they were interesting when I started to contemplate them and I gave them names and there's 21 of them. I gave them these kind of kind of colorful names and the code on ring which is these little families, groupings of these gene keys. Sometimes they're four, sometimes they're two, sometimes they're singles, you know, so they're little clusters. This is a two and it pairs the 55 with the 49. And the 49 is the key of rebirth. And the reason it pairs is that in a circle of the 64, they would be opposite? No, those are the partners we talked about probably. These are more mysterious there to do with groupings that kind of correlate through the amino acids that they share.

2:54:05I see. That's one of the more like shared family. Exactly. And they are the mirror of what happens in our DNAs, of the chemical groupings. That's what they call codons because they code for specific amino acid connections. Remember, I'm a poet, right? So this is a poet's view of DNA, not a scientific view. But it is based in the kind of same fractal architecture of the DNA. So it's kind of a, it's beautiful. Yes. I think who better than a poet to explain this, really? Well, and it means I'm not limited by scientific language. So I can use the imagination and some smattering of scientific insight.

2:54:49But yeah, so that key, the name I gave that code on ring of those two keys together was the ring of the whirlwind and they have lovely names like that. And they relate to the arcane of the tarot, actually, which you might find interesting, because there's 22 of them. And they also relate to the Hebrew alphabet. So it's a beautiful code. It's amazing that those codes from the tarot which is rooted in Egyptian, Kabbalistic, Mysticism and then the 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet are all rooted in our biology through the code on rings, through these collections in our DNA, these 22 chromosomes that we have.

2:55:32So, I love those patterns. And this particular one, the Ring of the World Wind, you see if you can guess which tarot card it is, the whirlwind, it's the tower. Oh yes. And which is the storm that's coming. The lightning. And the lightning, and the, you know, it involves quantum leap, a kind of massive change. That's what it relates to. And so that's why the two keys are freedom and rebirth. It's the rebirth of freedom or the freedom of rebirth. And rebirth is different from revolution, which is the gift name for 49, hexagram, 49 gene, keep 49, they call it, it's called revolution. So the higher form of revolution is rebirth.

2:56:19Because revolution goes around and keeps doing the same, you know, like all the revolutions we see, but rebirth is of another dimension. So it's when a whole speed, it's an entire system change reboots itself and goes in a completely new direction that had no relationship to the old. And that's why this is quite wild and it's why the jinkies is quite a kind of, it's very visionary in that way because you know the new human has no relationship to the old human in way. It's founded on it, but the new direction, it looks very different. And so, if you think about that, the view that we have right now, through science, through evolution and all the things we know, if you're trying to project into the future, you're projecting based on what you know from the past.

2:57:16So you look at the patterns of the past and the cycles and things and you think, well, you know, some people might think, yeah, we're going to go to Mars and then we're going to colonize here and then we'll find how to travel at the speed of light and we'll technology will do all these amazing things. Right, that's the assumption that most people have looking into the future. I question that knowing what I know about the 55th Genki because the relationship of the future is not related to the past, so it looks like there's a break Rauru who also predicted the same thing, there's going to be, his was a darker, I have to say his was a darker prediction than mine.

2:57:57He saw it more apocalyptic. I don't see that, you know, it's a different metaphorical story through the Dragonfly, which is that, yeah, that will take to the air, literally. And our consciousness will find a new way to operate. And that sounds like a more interconnected way. It's very interconnected. It's a new human. It's a new human that actually has to come through birth. So in other words, and again, something that Rob predicted is that children would start entering into the world with a genetic mutation that would then spread and slowly over the years, hundreds of years, colonize human species.

2:58:41It's quite wild. It's like a science fiction, but it's a positive virus in that sense, because it networks us into a new kind of intelligence. But again, the new human, even though it's related, perhaps, to a very old version, as you said, like the instinctive part of us, the almost deep mammalian part, the animal part of us that really, you know, the animals have that collective intelligence, don't they? We see it in the bird kingdom, we see it in insect kingdom, we see it in the mammals as well, wild dogs, for example. You know, they have a networked intelligence that enables them to work perfectly.

2:59:22I understand mushrooms as well, mushrooms. Redwood trees. Totally. All are in communication with each other. Yeah. I mean, it's everywhere. And I think humans in our kind of hunter -gatherer stage, and before we started building civilizations, we had that same intelligence, I would say. So it is rooted in something that's deeply ancestral, but I think it's a lot more advanced in the future human because we've gone through a lot of stages since then. And so we've changed. So we can utilize that ancient intelligence, which is in the gut. So we have it. And we're going to be a new hybrid kind of being.

3:00:06I think Homo Sanctus was my name for it, the sacred human. Yes, very cool. I'm thinking back to mentioning the Jin Ki Kodans, the Hebrew alphabet, and the tarot all being related. And when I first hear that, it seems like it's too far out, like it's too wild. And then the more I think about it, it's more like there's whatever reality is. And then there are different ways of explaining it. And it's almost like the same sonnet in two different languages. Of course, they're saying the same thing. They're just two different languages, saying the same thing. So the content is always the same. For any of these systems, it's all the same.

3:00:47They're just a different language. But the things that they're talking about, they're using different names, they're putting different labels on it. But it's all the same. It's one system, it is what is. Yeah. Exactly. They're using different number systems. Yes. You know, the Shakur is they use seven. Human design uses nine. Each and each uses 64. Kabbalah uses 32 or 10. And everything has a slight, you know, there's astrology, uses 12 and lots of other, you know, potential numbers. But yeah, all these different... They're all describing the same thing. Exactly. They're just cutting it up in a different way.

3:01:31Exactly. Yeah. It's a language of light. Yeah. Essentially, it's what it is. Yeah. It's a really big revelation for me. It's exciting for me to think about it. everything makes more sense when viewed that way. Yeah, I agree, and nothing's left out. No. Even the shadow is not left out. Even corruption is not, that's what I love about the Jeankeys. Like there's a Jeankey shadow 50, it's corruption. It's all in that. What's the gift on the corruption, on 50? Harmony. Harmony. So you see like, it's just a corrupt information stream. You could look at it like we talk about data has been corrupted. It's all it is.

3:02:16It's corrupted data that then has to go through a process of sorting itself out, transforming, and then attaining a higher harmony, a hidden harmony in a way. So yeah, every, nothing's left out, no part of the shadows left out. Yeah, even sort of lots of really quite wild, difficult concepts that we struggle with to do with suffering are also woven into these keys. Will there shadows and the shadow is always related to light? Yeah. There is no shadow without light. Exactly. I even at one point made the suggestion somewhere in the book I think that the darkness, the shadow, is actually an intensification of light, but it's so bright that you can't see it.

3:03:15So if you think about that, that's like, that's a different way of looking at darkness. But actually, if something is really, really bright, it's so bright, it actually appears invisible or dark to us. We can't see it. We're blinded by it. And in a way darkness is the beauty of it is that it's light. Actually, there's nowhere in the universe where there isn't light. And in the in the in the in Yang, the dark side is the positive side, isn't it? Yeah. Well the feminine as well. Yeah, it's the yielding. It's the out of the dark, you know, in the Bible, isn't it? out of the darkness came forth the light.

3:04:02And like I said, it's really interesting when it comes to physics, I think, and astrophysics, like the notion of black holes that suck in light. And then there's this notion of that's been postulated of white holes that may be the other side of black holes that would make sense to me, and, in fact, intuitively would spew out light. So you'd have these two, you end up with a torus, a toroidal field, which is, again, what's been proposed at the kind of foundation of all natural systems, are these toroidal spin sort of vortices? Have you ever done a Jean -Keeze readings for luminaries of the past?

3:04:50Occasionally, but I haven't spent a lot of time doing that kind of thing. As you know, I don't use the profiles much myself, but I, yeah, I think it's a great, would be a great, great, serious, yeah. I mean, I love doing yours. It was just very revealing, wasn't it? I was shocking to me. When we looked at my reading, which we were able to find through going to jimkey .com and putting in my birth date, we saw a little picture. What do you call that? The profile. The profile. Tell me about the shape of the profile and what the different circles mean. Yeah. So it's a kind of, it's a sequencing map, basically.

3:05:35How many balls are there? There are 11. And there are more to come, actually, which will be arriving next year. A couple more. Yeah. It's a way of telling the narrative of your awakening. And initially I saw it and kind of laid it out as three sequences, as I said, it's gonna be four actually, but there's three basic sequences and the first one is made up of four gene keys, which are called your activation sequences. It's sort of, it's the one that activates your beginning of your awakening process. And it also has to do with your individual awakening and your genius, unlocking a genius inside you that lies latent and your purpose.

3:06:24It's all same language, like your purpose is to unlock your genius. So it's about that. And the name of my book on the front of my book is embracing your high purpose. It's about your awakening, that high purpose. And those four keys are pillars. and there's a series of three pathways that move through them in a zigzag, and you know, that connect them. And that's the sequence. And so the first pathway is called challenge, and then break through, and then costability. And so your gene keys and individual gene keys are threaded along those pathways. So it gives you a unique story to you. So my, for instance, my top one is 64, than the next one is 63.

3:07:08So the challenge for me is really lying in 63, which is doubt, the shadow is doubt. So my greatest challenge has been given all this revelation to doubt it, and to doubt myself, and to just doubt whether I'm mad, and do I really want to do this and go out there with all this stuff. And so I've had to overcome and explore those doubts, and the gift to hidden in that doubt is the gift of inquiry. So I've explored the doubt in depth and understood it's it's fear -based and then come to trust and then found truth which is the so that's my story so challenge and then there's a breakthrough I won't tell the whole story of mine but you can.

3:07:51Well that leads in a sequence so that embracing of that challenge leads to a breakthrough which leads to the next sphere, which is called radiance. And the radiance is literally our kind of health operating unimpeded. So it literally do become radiance. So we all have this hidden radiance, and it's part of our genius, it's part of our emanation of our higher self, of our higher being. So unlocking one's radiance is a breakthrough that happens when we accept our challenge, our primary challenge in life. For me, my radiance is all about boundlessness, like opening up to the potential that anything is possible.

3:08:36And boundlessness is one of those beautiful cities. And that particular Jean -Kee 35 is a kind of potentially miraculous, is where miracles can enter the world. And then the final part of course, stability as your radiance starts to open up and you embrace those higher possibilities in your life and you embody them, then you actually become stable and grounded in your true purpose. So for me, that's actually about timelessness. So you have these two pairings of their programming partners. So their pairings in the Jean keys pantheon, 63 and 64, and then five and 35 of those keys. In your activation, see, and again, these are not ones you chose.

3:09:24These are ones that are just based on when you were born. Exactly. They show up in your child. Exactly. And everyone has this narrative, the same narrative of challenge breakthrough costability. But what the challenge is. What the breakthrough is. Yeah. So it's a lovely little narrative. It's a way of bringing people into a contemplative journey with their gene keys. It's kind of fun. And then it moves from there, from costability, which is what gives you this kind of sense of deep purpose in the world. And then the next sequence, there's a much bigger sequence, it's called the Venus sequence, because it has relationship to positions of planet Venus and Mars when we were born.

3:10:03And that Venus and Mars, for a long time in astrology and mythology, has always been connected with the polarities that live within inside us. Males of love and Mars and war. Yeah, male and female and animus, anima, emotions and mind, intellect. So in here you have IQ, you have a gene key that relates to your IQ, you have a gene key that relates to your EQ. So your male, female sides, EQ is your emotional intelligence, I was your IQ as your intellectual intelligence. And then you have another Jean -Kee deeper, called your SQ, which combines the two. It's like the sole quality that transcends both of those.

3:10:49But also includes them, both. We looked at your SQ, which was the creative, the essence of creativity, the Jean -Kee one line one that you have. And I was just joking with you because you've written a book about the foundation of creativity, and Genki won, line one, is the foundation of creativity and it's right in your SQ. So it's a beautiful moment. It was surprising to see. It's just bizarre. It's beautiful. And the Venus sequence is a powerful piece of work. It's kind of shadow work. It's so people that go on the journey of exploring their Venus sequence really have to come to terms with how they were wounded in their childhood or might even be an ancestral wound that they're carrying in their DNA, that they aren't fully aware of or they may be aware of it, and that their job is to come to terms with it and transform it.

3:11:43And so it gives you a wound map, basically. It's not something that most people would want to consciously look at, but because it's got jinkies loaded into it, you can see that it has a higher purpose. And the benefit of it is it also gives you the remedies. It gives you the remedies, exactly. And it shows you the shadows in exact detail. And you don't just look through the keys, you look through the line numbers as well. And the line numbers are six lines for every Jean -Qui. So the line numbers are key -noted all through the sequences. And so it enables us to tell a very accurate language of how did my heart shut down when I was young?

3:12:24Which part of my mind went on the defensive and how? So, you know, it shows you your teenage patterns, shows you your emotional kind of defense reflexes. It doesn't matter. The story is unique to you. Only you know what happened, sometimes people don't know what happened. But the deeper you go back, the more you see the layering of how we close down. We're actually meant to close down in order that we can open up. That's the whole sequence. So when you look at the sequence, you're looking in reverse with your awareness at here are the steps of the awakening of my heart. Here are the unfolding stages.

3:13:06So I first have to deal with this issue of how I shut down. And it also relates to seven -year cycles in our childhood. We know that the body is imprinted in seven -year cycles biologically, but also I was kind of inspired by the work of Rudolph Steiner, who really, through the Steiner schools and Waldorf curriculum has a very deep understanding of how children develop, you know, naturally. And so those three cycles relate to those EQIQ -SQ. You know, they relate to the three seven -year cycles of childhood. You know, 7 to 0 to 7, 7 to 14, puberty and then 14 to 21, teenage years adulthood. So it's really interesting the Venus sequence.

3:13:55It's like, I know a lot of people who work with it and they say it's the most profound work they've ever done. I have a lot of psychotherapists and people who really tank get just deeply embedded with it and are using it in a therapeutic way. But it's a very therapeutic, but it's also still a contemplative set of tools, the gene keys. But that's a very deep journey indeed, because it unpecks your relationships, basically. It's a story of your relationships and how you relate. And so it's profound. And then the third sequence is called the Pearl, and that's about prosperity. It's about how we prosper in life.

3:14:35And prosperity is given in slight new definition. It's a full systems thing. Prosperity is not just about having money. It's about prospering through health, through vitality, in relationships and friends. It's about really finding the essence in life. And it's a lot to do with simplicity, actually. It's very hard to truly prosper in life unless you found simplicity, some form of simplicity. So it's quite interesting that one shows keys that might have an impact to how we run a business, for example, or how we might make money. And more than anything, it shows us how we are designed to collaborate.

3:15:20So it shows us one of the gene keys is called SINARKEY, GQ44. and synarchy is the sort of higher operating system of humanity when the intelligence is networked. So it's sort of geniuses coming together and doing great things that a single genius, you know, a single genius can do a lot, but imagine a room full of geniuses networking their intelligence together. Imagine what's possible. And the pearl sequence describes that kind of, That feature consciousness that I was talking about. So it's really powerful. It shows you it gives you a kind of grid for your highest potential and in each case there are 64 keys and there are six possible lines and when we get our profile back we see a key and a line and are the one through six lines Do they always mean the same thing?

3:16:20So in other words regardless of which number gene key you have if it's 56 one or 27, one. If it's line one, does line one always mean the same thing regardless of what kids attach to? Yeah, it's like music with different octaves, right? So the note is the same note, but in a different octave, it sounds in a different way. Yes. So the keynotes that are threaded through the sequences are that all line one keynotes have the same feeling, but they're different words because they're in different spheres. So the language adjusts itself. Which would be the note which would be the octave between the key and the line?

3:17:02Put it like this. If you have line one in the base, in the sphere at the bottom of your chart. Right. You know, the keynote for that, you know, the keynotes for those six keynotes are all in the body, their systems in the body. So the keynote for line one is the structure of our body, which is our bones. So line ones are always structural, like bones. Right. And if you move it up into different spheres, it's always still, like I said, with yours. So tell us like one through six are the active. They're the active. I understand. Exactly. You get it. And then the key is the note. Exactly. Exactly.

3:17:50And then you have to, you know, once you learn the language, your contemplation begins to unpick your narrative. And it's a story you thread together. You have to do a bit of contemplative work, but it's beautiful because you get to see this is my story. And, you know, I've created these programs where I did a lot of work over years or I'd explored all the lines and gave them these keynotes and then invited people to explore how do you take line three, jinky 12, you know? And because if I wrote all of them it would just take me ages. So I want and also I wanted people to figure out themselves but we know that every line three is very versatile, it's very changeable, It's very, you know, flexible.

3:18:37So if you then took Jinky 12 and you go, well, what's that like through that line? And how different would be if it was a line four? You know, so the stories change. It's beautiful. It's a really beautiful thing. And yeah, once you learn the language, as I said, and I've written books and things, so that they help, they give you the language and the tools so that you can unpick your own story. But ultimately it's all an invitation for the participant to find a way in to understand their story. Understand their story, their karma, their drama, their emotions, their relationships, their relationship to money, their relationship to health.

3:19:21It's all in there. But you don't do all at once. You do it in steps and stages. I laid it out in these sequences so that you do it in a step by step by step. If you do the whole story and together it's called the golden path, all those stages and steps, the golden path, you're walking the golden path, if you did the whole thing, it's at least a year's contemplation. You couldn't rush it, you could rush it, but it's going to be a minimum of a year. Yeah, it's not about that. No. Most people do this and they take years because the Jinky's book and these tools are like, they're wisdom tools. It's like a course in miracles.

3:20:03You don't just pick it up and read it in a couple of months. You work with it for years. And it's also like a rush hour test because it's giving you something to react to. Yeah. And it has that lovely effect that as you're contemplating it, it starts to come alive in your life. So if you're contemplating a certain key and a certain line, like when I wrote the book, you start to see it reflected and then you go, oh, there it is. I experience it all the time and things that I'm working on where I'll have a thought about something that seems far out and then all day long, it's coming out. It's unbelievable.

3:20:45How did I not see this yesterday? How did I not see this every day up until the thought came and then the thought comes like, oh that's what everything says. Yeah. Any contemplative journey, that's the magic of it, it comes alive. I think that's the magic of contemplation and you're contemplative, that's why you unlock that as well. And many, many people, most people are contemplative a little bit and so that everyone knows that experience. It appears in a dream or it appears through the internet or something. Both three people mentioned the same thing. Three people, like every scene that's everything that's everything that's everything that's It gets really interesting when you kind of reach certain crux points in your profile journey.

3:21:35Because there are points where there's a place in your profile in the Venus sequence called your core wound. And I suggest that people kind of work their way down towards it, so that they're ready to kind of look at what's my core wound. And the core, everyone has one. And the core wounds of humanity are sacred in a way, because they contain great beauties. You know, they're the way the grace is hidden. And so, but they kind of are the nexus or the root of our suffering. So when you start contemplating those kind of things, you start to realize, you know, how your individual wound is connected to the wound of ancestry, humanity, racial gene pools everywhere you see it, and you start to realize, oh my God, I'm just a tiny drop in this ocean of suffering.

3:22:35and once you see suffering as fractal, you start to feel compassion. You then realize even terrible things that you hear about are kind of just representations of the same thing in you. So because you've touched it in yourself, you start to see it everywhere else, but you don't, you no longer afraid of it. So you start to feel true compassion. The kind of compassion that you know, master's speak of. It's not just a made -up word. It's a felt resonance that comes as love and understanding. You understand why that person did that awful thing. You understand, because you've got it in you. And so that becomes really interesting when we get down to those depths.

3:23:23I have a fun idea of an experiment for us to try. We could try it right now, tell me what you think. I think of the Jeet and Keys as a very human system. And since it's rooted in time, because it starts with the time of birth, if we were to take an event from history that happened at a specific time, we could do walking on the moon and look at the key for the moment, man walked on the moon and see what comes up. It's interesting. Have you ever used it in a non -human way? Some have, I know some people have done a lot of that kind of stuff and astrologers do a lot of that and Yeah, it's fascinating always like I we do it with with my business for example like when the business was founded We did a little profile like because it gives us keys of like this is what we're here to do.

3:24:12This is our Dharma Anything that any project that begins if you know the key When it begins because it's the same as birth. There's nothing was born What is that moment of imprinting what were the forces? kind of spiraling around. What was the fractal of that particular moment? Yeah, I love doing that. Tree -do -one? Sure. What would be a picking event? Oh, well, I don't know. We then have to, yeah, maybe a more recent one, so it's really easier. Okay. Let's see. It would be a big event that we could time down to the hour. Yeah, like pivotal moments, like discoveries of Panicilla and that kind of thing, like that changed.

3:24:58We need to put a cell in, if you like. It's kind of interesting, because it led to the healing of vast numbers of people. Let's see if there's a date associated. Yeah, I wonder. September 3rd, 1928. 1928. That's not too far. That's according to the history channel. It's good enough. So, okay, got it. So, according to me, the discovery of Panicillin took place when the sun was in Jinky 40 and Line 6. And the Earth, which is opposite, so there are pairs, there's always this programming part of these pairs, we can look at the pairs, there's 37, Line 6. So you get to see those two 40 and 37 and 40 is the city is about divine will.

3:26:01So it's like it's really powerful. It's the kind of these are moments of like something higher, touching down and occurring that's beyond, you know, our understanding. So kind of a form of grace and the six line always makes sense that it happened by accident. Exactly. It wasn't something controlled. Yeah. Which is an insight generally about life and dharma and destiny as a whole. And the 37, which pairs with it, is the hexagram of the family, right? The human family, you could say. So this impacted the entire human family and probably healed huge numbers of families because Panicillin, as we know, led to the kind of eradication of all kinds of horrendous viruses.

3:27:00and development of modern medicine and immunology and stuff. So, and the sixth line brings this kind of vision with it, it's at the top of a hexagram. So, it brings something always for the future. It's always about the future. Line one is always like rooted in the ancestry of the past. And then line six links us to something beyond us. So, it's a beautiful, it fits really beautifully. I mean, the shadow of 40 is exhaustion. You could kind of look at that as like, you know, the exhaustion of human vitality just, you know, disappearing in the 37, it's the shadow of weakness, you know, so you could look at that.

3:27:49If you look at it at a broad level, it's like the weakening of the immune system that, you know, that just draws all our energy away, this was a time in which like the higher a higher frequency was kind of landed that had a deep effect on the human family, on all families, on maybe brought us all together in some way. So hope, six lines also, carry kind of faith, hope, they carry that sort of for the future. Here's something, you know, and it did like, is we're still like pretty accurate. Yeah, so it's kind of nice to look at those things I don't often do but and you can go and look at other aspects of Gene Kees as well because you can look at other planetary positions and things and pull out more information.

3:28:37Are you ever surprised by what comes up through the keys? Yeah, I mean I'm wonderfully surprised. Yeah. Like seeing your one line one I was like if I were going to say Rick's got anything I'd be like yeah I would never believe it would be possible. No. The foundation of creativity is definitely what lies in your heart. Yeah, well, it sells purpose.