Serj Tankian

40:07Yeah, exactly while music does have power. Yeah, we know that What was the emotion? It's undescribable Rick. It was nothing I've ever felt before because it wasn't about playing a show It wasn't about doing an act of solidarity or protest It was all of the above and beyond yeah, it felt like the perfect show Yeah, if like like did it feel like a dream it felt like a dream. Yeah, I did imagine it because I as here I was lost in it It sounds hard to grok the experience. Hmm It's too much. Yeah, it is too much. Yeah I remember looking at the guys and just thinking This is where we're meant to be.

40:49This is why we were created in the first place It felt like you finally realized why you're a band. Yeah, you know I'm not talking about activism specifically or something. It's more emotional and spiritual that This is where we're meant to be and and and everything we've done and everything we were experienced brought us to this day You don't feel that at every show you don't feel that at every occasion did it strike all the members as emotional Yeah, yeah, I mean Darren at first was hesitant about going he had his personal reasons and all of that which we dealt with But once he was there and once we were faced with What was happening he was overwhelmingly like Incredibly taken back by it in fact he decided to stay in Armenia longer like he changed his flight back and so I was on stage.

41:35I remember between songs like Darren was playing this beautiful guitar line And it kind kind of made me made me just talk, you know as I do and I literally saw my grandparents looking over us, you know and because we're kind of Celebrating their legacy who had survived the genocide, but at the same time I was dealing with a corrupt Leadership in Armenia that at first didn't want us to play there, which is a whole different story in 2013 for example So I was dealing with those issues. So I was basically Thinking of my grandparents, but also kind of talking geopolitically, you know and at the time I think Obama was president and I said you know It's a shame that as a candidate Obama Promise to recognize the genocide, but as president he's failed to do so like all the rest You know and Russia, you know They had recognized the genocide, but I said something like it would be nice if we can look at each other eye to eye not as a client state to A master kind of thing, you know And then I criticized the Armenian government from that stage in the country But in a smart way and I said, you know there's depopulation.

42:42There's economic inequity. There's inequality in the courts And we've come a long way, but there's a lot of fucking work to do, you know, so it was this incredible moment That will not be replicated in my lifetime. Yeah Was it filmed? Yeah, okay. It was actually streamed rolling stone streamed at live Immediately like millions of people were watching it around the world because it was such an amazing. It's still on it's still on YouTube. Yeah fantastic How do you describe what makes system of a down system of a down? I think it's our unique personalities You know when you're making a dish with four really diverse ingredients You take one away and try to replace it.

43:26It's never gonna work It's just who we are and it doesn't matter who's playing what instrument or What it is it's just the combination of four of us, you know This is the wonderful advantage of the book that it just kind of opens up the memory logs I was thinking of the first day Daren and I actually sat down and Just harmonized, you know, we weren't in a band together at the time. He was playing guitars for This other band that we were sharing and I was playing keyboards for a band and we were sharing studio space And him and I got you know got to know each other and I realized he's he was 16, you know, and I was probably like 20 early 20s And I realized how Dedicated he used to music how serious he was to music I remember he held up his guitar and he started playing something and I started singing and then he harmonized and I think we both stopped and looked at each other Because that harmony was something I had never heard yeah our voices harmonized in a very very unique fashion And our tones completely different, but together they have this really interesting thing And that's when we looked at each other and we realized there's something special there I remembered that the other day Beautiful.

44:43So I think it started with that obviously that because Daren and I first connected before any other band members joined But then it's the four of us. It's it's what we do together. It's what we feel on stage together And what comes out of us because of the other When we jam on stage for example or even in a rehearsal studio Someone's playing something not necessarily a song that we've written or or anything like that We have an interesting way of grabbing that and turning it around ourselves and someone grabbing it and turn you know It's how you play off each other that's unique. I think a good band has that It's not just different.

45:20These are your two The difference between being a solo artist and being in a band is that What comes from the collaboration is unexpected right? Yeah, you know someone decides to put in a part that you would have never thought of correct And the way those two parts bounce off each other create something new a third thing. Yeah, absolutely And it's also the multiplier effect in terms of power as well. Yeah, the one plus one becomes three Tell me about the early days of being on the road. How much of a grind is it or was it? You know, I think I was a little older than the other guys I was like hitting 30 and they were in their early 20s and I think also that Music was a later love in life for me, you know, I had all these other experiences and When I thought of doing music I always thought I was going to be in a studio every day creating like that was my vision I didn't know that you know You make the music for six months you record the music for six months then you tour for two years right like and you're making videos and doing Press and all this other stuff which is not making music but you thought of it your idea of doing music was being in the studio making music pretty much Yeah creating creating and I did enjoy touring and I still enjoy performing but It is a grind you know, the travel is the grind.

46:39It's not the performance if you can just Show up every day in the same place and play it's a dream come true, right? Because the performance is fun, but it's that travel and as I got older especially in my 50s and start having back problems and all the stuff It became even more of a grind and There's also the aspect of let's leave health aside There's the I don't know if it's a purest way of thinking about it, but Repeating performance is artistic redundancy So the first week two weeks fun the first show incredibly fun, right but then after a while it's diminishing returns artistically and You've become a performer and you're doing the performance and you're being incredibly rewarded with love and everything else right economically But that does kind of also add up over time and you go why am I repeating myself?

47:28You know art is not supposed to repeat itself that much, you know So there's that aspect of it. I think David Bowie said after two weeks any tours redundant basically You know, which is why doing a one -off like we're doing sickening world for example We did it last year and may we're doing it this year in April Just doing a one -off is fun because you don't know about this tell me about it. Oh, yeah So we started a festival with live nation in Vegas called sickening world. We did the first one last year 60 ,000 people sold out like with an hours This year same thing last year. It was just fun because there's not the same pressure of touring right Doing so many shows.

48:06Oh, you know, I got sick halfway through or this happened that happened, you know, it's more like Your rehearse you laugh you you know with the guys and then you go play this one showing it become special Like the Armenia show, you know, it just become special. It's an event. It's an event. Yeah, you know, you enjoy it You know your friends are there because it's an event. It's not like okay now we're in Oklahoma now we're in South Carolina You know, it's like it's special So performing when it's special like for example, I was doing this in April I did an orchestral event at sea suns or I a theater You know, I had like five incredible soloist singers a choir 20 person choir and an orchestra And I had written music for it beautiful music very piano moody kind of with strings They offered me a second night because the first night sold out.

48:55I said thank you, but no You know, let's keep it one. Let's keep it special Same thing like there's something about it not repeating and it just being a one -off event that just makes it more interesting Yeah, tell me about New Zealand. New Zealand's incredible I went to New Zealand the first time in the year 2000 or 2001 with the band for tour called the Big Day Out tour Which is no longer around but it was a great tour and I had this incredible intuitive sense of belonging from the minute that we were there and this pervasive piece this incredible greenery around and I was just so curious. Is it the visual thing or is it more than that?

49:37Is it like what you saw or what you felt? It's both So I started exploring it. I kept going back every year and You know vacationing there looking at different parts of the country and traveling and whatnot And it was a dream of mine to get residency and get a place there which I was able to do which was amazing Yeah, you know, it's great being in a place where The land is clean the waters clean the air is pure You know, it's healthy food. I believe healthy very healthy food the fish is incredible So we grow stuff we have a little farm we grow stuff on the farm A lot of fruit trees, you know veggies and whatnot And it's just more than anything my mind slows down, you know It kind of balances out L .A.

50:23living for me, you know, because here it's all fast fast fast, right? Too many things to do too many projects which I enjoy each and every one but I need that I need it. I need that slowing down and I still work there, but at a much slower pace You L .M .N .T Element electrolytes Have you ever felt dehydrated after an intense workout or a long day in the sun? You want to maximize your endurance and feel your best? Add element electrolytes to your daily routine Perform better and sleep deeper Improve your cognitive function Experience an increase in steady energy with fewer headaches and fewer muscle cramps Element electrolytes Drink it in the sauna Refreshing flavors include grapefruit, citrus, watermelon and chocolate salt Formulated with the perfect balance of sodium, potassium and magnesium to keep you hydrated and energized throughout the day These minerals help conduct the electricity that powers your nervous system so you can perform at your very best Element electrolytes are sugar -free, keto -friendly and great tasting Minerals are the stuff of life So visit drinklmnt .com slash tetra and stay salty with element electrolytes LMNT Do you have big picture revelations when you slow down?

52:23You get to see things that you don't see when you're focused on the daily routine? Sure One thing I like about New Zealand is It's changing, of course, over the years, over the last 20 years But the original one of the reasons I went there was political neutrality I liked the fact that they were non -new clear that they were politically quite neutral at the time That's changed over time How has it changed? It's become way more aligned with Western interests militarily and all of that stuff economically militarily During Helen Clark's time as Prime Minister it felt like they had their own path They were forced to their own path.

53:02I remember during the Iraq war when I went to New Zealand the foreign minister of New Zealand at the time kept on saying why is America in Iraq? Like on TV, which you wouldn't see anywhere else for example, right? Any Western country let's say but it's not like that now and it's like kind of more on board But you know, it's still a unique special place And the more I slow down the more I appreciate bigger picture things You know, then just whatever's happening in my mind or my life and stuff And some of it is nasty You know, what's happening around the world and everything you start feeling things more I find it incredible that With all of the medical and technological progress we've made as humanity With everything that we've learned with data At our fingertips That no human being, no animal has ever been able to have We have more wars starvation Crazy shit, you know, it's like None of it's making us better No And that is what saddens me the most He said originally when you Set out to work on the book you thought of it as Talking about your spiritual life and your activism And those are the two Big pieces of your life.

54:21How do they fit together? Years ago I had the honor of meeting the Delay Lama For this TV special they were doing our movie special It was in Philadelphia. They flew us and it was myself Moe B Katie Tundstahl and Joston They picked four artists And we each got to ask two questions on camera To the holiness and First of all, he's a really funny guy I don't know if anybody is really But I'm going to that because I asked him that question I asked him I said what do you think is the intersection of justice and spirituality And he thought about it for a second and he said I'm paraphrasing of course, but he said something like To follow a path of injustice is spiritually disconcerting Now now first I thought that was like a double negative You know, of course that's the case I mean it's a you know no brainer that that's the case But if you really think about it Our intuition, our moral existence Connect to our spirituality Cannot allow us to Be unjust and if so we're not going to be unhappy with ourselves Right?

55:35It is the connection You know So I kind of ended the book with that actually That that's the realization that they are almost one in the same How could you live a spiritual life in a world of injustice Or how could you live in a in a non -spiritual life in a world of justice It's like they are almost one in the same Yeah Have you ever been to an Armenian Orthodox church? Sure, yeah, I grew up going to church There was a church right across her school I used to actually sing there The head priest would kind of enlist us and we would sing And at one point I kind of got tired of it And I asked to be excused You know, I said I don't want to do this anymore At first it's like why you should you've got a great voice You should sing I'm like yeah, you know He said something like in our age We would be too embarrassed to tell the priest that we don't want to sing And say no and I said That's it that's not your age So I guess I'm thinking back right now So I had the singing thing then and the rebellious spirit at the same time But I was a straight -age student nice kid, you know All of that stuff it's interesting Would the teachings done in English or were they done in Armenian?

56:50We had both It was a school in Hollywood Piliboa says the name it's actually a really good Armenian school And most of our classes are in English But then you have Armenian language class And Armenian history class Which would be done in Armenian What was it like working with an orchestra and how is it different than Being on state with an orchestra versus being on state with a band? It's different working with an orchestra Has taught me a lot Specifically different orchestras So you have the same written music And you go from let's say Russia to Italy To Germany to Poland They all play it differently They're all great orchestras but they play it differently And it taught me that They play based on their cultural strengths and weaknesses So with the Italians Phenomenal soloists When they play together Not so tight Not so good Yeah I mean tight sometimes but not yeah With the Russians, Germans, Austrians They play like When the baton comes down They're all hitting that one or three or whatever That's interesting to me Really interesting Yeah To hear the music you've written Interpreted by different players Just by the nature of who they are Fascinated It is fascinating I wouldn't have guessed that And to be a songwriter versus a composer Is a whole different feeling as well Because songwriter, you're in it You know, you're performing it You wrote it You're vibing with other people on stage You're playing it But being a composer and stepping back And listening to others interpret your music Is a whole different feeling And with an orchestra You know, you have all these acoustic instruments playing You could have up to 80, 90 people playing music on stage And what I do is with the band Both my ear monitors and otherwise I'd go deaf But with an orchestra, I drop one If I'm performing with them Like if I'm going to sing for example I'll drop one so I could hear my voice in one And hear the full orchestra and the room and the other Because I have to Like I want to hear it You know It's a different feeling I think Classical music And its dynamics Lend themselves to emotions That Electronic music Or electrified music I should say cannot touch And vice versa You know, rock music is The power of loud guitars is Or you know, program music could be very powerful Yeah And you know, like Rock music overall is music of protest It's a fuck you Right?

59:16Like whereas classical music With classical music You can get so vulnerable Emotionally With a beautiful solo violin or something like that That you can't get there with rock And same with jazz Like you jazz music has its own Beautiful emotions at portraits You know The diversity and colors Of those different genres That really really that I love to explore Because I can only express so many emotions with one genre, right? Are you writing songs all the time? I'm so busy scoring That I'm not writing as many songs Is that more main job now? Kind of Yeah Yeah I mean I find it incredibly fun and challenging Yeah I'm doing two films and a Netflix series now Which is cool You know But different One of the films is fun Because it's kind of like a Hollywood Funny film kind of thing I'm enjoying being creative with the limitations Yes Because writing a song is There are no limitations Like it comes to you You write it Yeah it's more of a puzzle When it has to fit somewhere Exactly Exactly And sometimes you do like a bunch of cues And everything's perfect Then there's one cue you do 10 times And you're struggling Because that one thing for whatever it is You know And you learn it You figure out You have to figure that out Yeah And each score is a completely different tone Sound musically Like it's You know one could be Like synths All synths One is orchestral One is More rocky or modern You know one is more And an idea before it happens Or is it more of a feeling?

1:00:50So As a composer for media You always want to find Something you can Sink your teeth into So conversation with the director for example You're always looking for something That musically makes sense And that's where You will eventually figure out what you need to do So in my conversations with director Or a creative producer Whoever's making decisions I try to get the tone But they don't know the tone So you have to kind of be like What are the emotions you're trying to portray What type of instrumentation are you thinking of Sometimes it's I don't know And then you're like What's going on through the story Is there any music in the story I've had instances where director will come and say We're using this old ancient lullaby I'm like great I want to hear it send it to me And I listen to it I'm like perfect So use the chords to create like an orchestral thing around that It's just anywhere at the start And usually if there's some relation Already within the film Musically Then as soon as you grasp onto it The doors open Yeah Musically for it And then the next step is to do a small suite of music And send it to the director And be like Are we on the same wavelength Or is this totally off field Right And you send it in picture Or just as a piece of music Generally just as a piece of music And do you know where the music is going to go in the film There might not even be a film at that point There might not be video at that point They might still be in In script mode Or shooting Or they might have dailies Yeah Sometimes you start early Sometimes you start late It's rare to have a final cut Where they hire you and go We want to compose or you know And here's the final cut Like along the way That you develop it And there's some cool directors That like integrating the music in their shoots too Because it helps set up the tempo Yeah For that scene And also I imagine the mood of the scene And the mood of the scene And when the actors hear it They act differently Right So I haven't had that experience yet Where the music's been used in the film But there are some creative directors that develop But Again like you said It's the problem solving The puzzle solving Element that I find interesting And the fact that each of them Are going to be musically Completely different So that's fun Sometimes I don't even watch I listen Because if you list Especially with documentaries If you listen to dialogue You don't even have to watch You just compose on the spot Listening You're going in between When there's a change You feel it emotionally You Play your modulator or whatever It's interesting It's like scoring a conversation Sounds cool Yeah, it's fun When you're writing a song Do the lyrics start With a sound Or do they start with words Is it about the way they sound Or is it about what the words mean It's mostly sound Sometimes words come in Because I think your consciousness starts Bringing in certain words And then you go backwards And say Well why did my mind use that word there What does that mean Is that what this song is about So it's like a puzzle That your spirit Or your consciousness Is solving While you're going through the process And then you go and you fill in the blanks Of the gibberish words That you were using To make up for You know once you figure out What that puzzle is And you go backwards And sometimes you don't figure it out Correctly You know I've written one song I remember where The song was funny But I wasn't giving it Enough credence for its Funniness And the lyrics were not And it just wasn't working And I'm like yeah but those lyrics are great The music's great Why isn't it working And then I just realized it Like out of the blue I'm like Wait a minute This is a funny or song Then You know I should change it You know so I rewrote the lyrics Boom Worked perfectly So Sometimes it's confusing But You know I think stream of consciousness Is the best way vocally to help right And you always do it out louder Can you do it silently Oh I can do it silently And would it still You'd find Vocal phrasing And words even silently You can find it But you've got to do it out loud to remember it So whether it's on your phone Or whatever that you want to record So like you might be thinking of it But if you can't record it You're going to forget it Because it goes like that right Have you ever started with lyrics Yes And what's that like It wasn't my lyrics So It's actually a funny story Because the current Prime Minister of Armenia Had written lyrics He had said this one thing And it was a flowery thing about Armenia and being Armenian and stuff And he had hit me up and said Do you think you could put music to this And I'm like Yeah, let me let me try Let me play with it You know And I picked up an acoustic guitar And wrote a song Using those exact same lyrics Sanged them Send it to him and he was like Wow And I put it out Like I think in 2020 Or 2019 Something like that It's called Hayashtan Which is the Armenian word for Armenia Okay And I hit my name Zaru he was shunshan And I was like Oh, I know Shubriya Armenia And I was like Man's Hango Be me girl Beautiful What are the words being It's basically talking about Armenia Well, Armenia is a country where the roads get lost Friends gathered together around A Khorovaaz, which is Kebap, basically fire Armenia is a country where the autumn is serene and warm And pure wine shines in grapes It's very visual Armenia is a land of fruits A garden of apricots A cellar full of dry lavash A ringing thump of an anvil And then the Chorus is the names of all of the capitals of Armenia Historically I love it Thank you Won't play anything else Anything you feel As a song I did with my dad Yeah Should I play it now?

1:07:50Yeah I am a king Boy you see it's a ring But I'm too God A ring Ignorable A ring But I am a king Boy you see it's a ring But I'm too God A ring That was great Finally got the chorus down How would you do it with your dad when you were a kid Who would play? Nobody would play So you just do it a -kaka -kala Or he would be listening to the song On like vinyl I see And you guys would sing along He would sing along then I'd sing along with him And would you ever sing unison or immediately harmony? Mostly unison And then over time Harmony But when I sang with and there are parts I sing in unison On his record Parts I sing There's actually a video on YouTube Where I just brought him into my studio And we did the song Live and recorded it basically Which was beautiful As a way of putting out the record at the time You know Yeah it was It was amazing feeling Welcome to the house of Maccadamias Maccadamias Are a delicious superfood Sustainably sourced directly from farmers Maccadamias A rare source of Omega 7 Linked to collagen regeneration Enhanced weight management And better fat metabolism Maccadamias Art healthy And brain boosting fast Maccadamias Failure friendly G -tool and plant -based Maccadamias No wheat No dairy No gluten No GMOs No preservatives No palm oil No added sugar House of Maccadamias I roasted with Namibian sea salt Crack black pepper And chocolate dips Snack bars come in chocolate Coconut white chocolate And blueberry white chocolate Visit houseofmaccadamias .com Slash tetra I was going to ask you what would be a good piece of classic Armenian folk music that we could listen to together Ooh Something from Kachadur Avidician My dad's name popped up because it's Kachadur as well Okay great And there's some really beautiful Armenian folk music in there Yaramara kuyar aguda Shadushaska Jai Rizbogovat Sirenena Jai Rizbogovat Yaramara kuyar aguda Shadushaska Jai Rizbogovat Sirenena Rantant Shadushaska Yarsin Chasat Perdambekid Artiro Vashu Serger Gennud Sazzezenikid Varetiro Vashu Yalani chowler Nenkneid Andunu Ander Manai Saribesatartunenai Yachunenai Yalani chowler Nenkneid Andunu Ander Manai Saribesatartunenai Yachunenai Yalani chowler Yarisarashada Nushe Love is life sugar Yari darada Zagopushe Zabi sawechega Yari sarashada Nushe Love is life sugar Yari darada Gopushe Zabi sawechega Katsle na ra Churda baza Ang maha gane Elchiha Chipurda baza Hobi gane Yani chowler Nenkneid Andunu Ander Manai Saribesatartunenai Yachunenai Yani chowler Nenkneid Andunu Ander Manai Saribesatartunenai Yachunenai Yseng Mango C allem Balala Jaxono From the films you have learned new cooking different athletics Shakespeare and different events and stuff like that.

1:15:55He played drums and stuff. And he wanted to learn this in Beirut. This was in Syria actually, because he was born in Syria. He later went to Beirut. My mom is born in Beirut. So he decided to study with this one, Udmaster in Syria. So he took a bus to go see this teacher. At the time, his dad had passed away. My grandfather had passed away when my dad was in second grade. Pretty young. So he was young. But he was enjoying playing music. At this point, he's a young teen or whatever. And he's taking this trip. And he sitting near him is like this other guy that looks like a musician. So he kind of befriends him and starts talking to him and says, are you a musician?

1:16:37He's like, yeah, I am. And he's like, oh, OK. And the guy sees my dad holding an Ud. And he says, how long have you been playing the Ud? And he says, oh, I just started. I'm going to take classes from this one master. He's like, what's his name? And he knew him, obviously, because it's a small world kind of thing. And my dad goes, tell me about your life. Tell me the life of a musician. And so this guy gives him like this whole kind of brief history of his life, the ups and downs, the tragic part of the music world. And whether it's drugs or being on the road away from family and just all of that stuff.

1:17:18And my dad ends up stopping at his stop and taking another bus back. Never goes to that thing. Wow. He's a musician that never did music. He went to Milan, started to do design. He became a shoe manufacturer. He was successful in his life, all of that. But music was always his love. So when he retired, when they were at my parents and mom just throws it out and just says, hey, you should make a record with your dad. And I'm like, yes, of course. And it was for me, it was giving back because there were times in our family where in the early 90s, where it was really difficult. My parents lost everything in a huge lawsuit, a civil lawsuit.

1:17:58And I was coming of age at that time. I was 16, 17, helping them with legal briefs and it's really, really stressful time. And we went from pretty much having a lot of things, a comfortable lifestyle to back to zero, you know? And starting over and renting and, you know, trying to make a living. And at that time, I had realized that music's my calling. But I had started a software company to help pay the bills. It was a vertical industry software for jewelers. An industry I knew well because of my uncle's business. And so I remember having a conundrum, like I was like, you know, I need the finances for the family, but I wanted to do music and I need more time for music.

1:18:39And my dad saw me grappling with that issue one day. And we sat down and he said, what's wrong? And I'm like, I'm playing it off. I'm like, oh, nothing's wrong. It's okay, you know? And he goes, no, tell me. And I said, look, I just, I'm faced with the dilemma. I wanted to do music, but I don't have enough time because I'm working, you know, this and that. And he goes, if I have to get a second fucking job, you do music. Just like that. You are not gonna knock on the knock to music. If that's what it is that you want to do. So that gave me the wings to be able to enter an industry where all the odds are against you.

1:19:15And he wanted your dreams to come true because he couldn't follow his. Yeah. That's wild. Yeah. So he got to make that record with it. I got to make it beautiful. Did he love it? He loves it. Yeah. Oh, he goes to a Daltecare. He sings there, you know, he has musician friends, you know, in his circle and stuff. So he loves it now. When you hear the music of system of a down, are you aware of the Armenian roots in it or is it just ordinary music to you? I'm aware in retrospect now. Yeah. I wasn't when we were making it originally. Yeah. Because it was just what was a much part of your growing up.

1:19:56Yeah. It was just a thing to do with anything else. You know, like I didn't think that our rhythms are that different. Yeah. It was just natural to us. Whether it's John playing the drums or Darren writing, like something that would be Eastern. Yeah. It was just part of what's great is that... And the melodies too, the melodies and the harmonies, it all doesn't sound like anything that we're used to in that genre of music. Yeah. No, it's true. It's all from somewhere else and it's so cool. Yeah. You know, I think the greatest thing about system of a down musical influence, I don't mean our influence on other people, but how we got influence is the diversity of our influence.

1:20:38Yes. Because Darren himself is like so diverse and his musical listening tastes, you know? And he grew up with Armenian music, Arabic music and all sorts of stuff because of his parents being from Iraq and all of that. And of course he has a love for many different types of genres. And where he started, which was very much rock -oriented, he was a metalhead and all that, that wasn't my musical beginning. Rock to me was way later on. Rock, punk, rock, hip -hop. My origins were way more Armenian music, European music, Arabic music, all the Eastern music, but also in Goth and 80's music, new wave, like I, you know, although he's got that too, but he got that later, I got that when I was in the 80's because of our age difference, you know?

1:21:24So I wasn't a heavy metal guy when I started singing in a heavy metal band, which also makes it interesting. Like learning to scream, and, but it was great because I remember in our early days, all of the trauma in my life, I exercised through rehearsals. Forget about the shows, like we didn't, you know? That was amazing. And at one point, you learn to regulate the anger and frustration that's built into your music, into a performative art, where you no longer are that angry, but you realize where it comes from. And I think also when it's, the music itself has energy that propels you, you can't help it.

1:22:09You can't help but get swept up in the power of the groove. Totally. Do you read much poetry? I used to. I read less poetry now. I read more prose than I do poetry. Once in a while, you know, something will touch me. I like your words. They come to me as poetry, whether you intended for them to be or not, because they have weight to them. Each word is weighed, and no unnecessary ones are there. I think that's good poetry. Thank you. What are your typical reading habits today in prose? Audio books. More than anything. I've been listening to a lot of memoirs. I just listened to flees, getty -lees, a lot of music memoirs.

1:22:55Anthony Bourdain's, I've already heard kitchen confidential, but I listened to the second one, medium, something great. I love his writing style. I see the like. He was really cool, man. Like, he... The way I even got to meet him was we were in New Zealand. Angela and I, my wife, we were watching C &M parts, I'm known with Anthony Bourdain. And I think it was Georgia or some other country near Armenia. And she's like, you know what, he's never been to Armenia. He's done it special with all these other countries. She's like, why don't you hit him up? And he likes rock music. Like, you know, you can hit him up.

1:23:32And I'm like, come on, I'm just gonna hit up someone. I don't know. Our mutual friend, Dave Worsh after actually, helped make the connection. So I hit him up and I just got an email and I wrote to him, never thinking I'd hear back. Within minutes, he responded. He's like, you got it. I'll have my production people contact you. And I'm like, it was almost like, this is a joke. Someone's franking me, right? So cool. You know, and then they did. And then we worked through people they should meet, places we should go, restaurants, and this, that the food aspect, the political aspect. What was interesting about him is I wasn't really pushing the genocide thing or anything like that, but he really got into it.

1:24:10He really got into it. And like, it was almost like, he had this penchant for injustice. Like, when he saw it, hypocrisy and injustice, he would go after it. Like, that's what I loved about him. And that's what I wrote to him in my email. First time I said, listen, here's who I am. And what I love about you is you're not like a typical talking head. If you don't like something, you say whether it's food or people or politics, I appreciate that about you. You know, I said, but you've never been to Armenia. If you go, I got your back kind of thing, you know? Yeah, and it worked out, which was surprising for me.

1:24:43But he was, he was very no nonsense type of person, but he was very loving. And I think you really enjoyed being there. He really enjoyed things he hadn't experienced before. He was an adventure.

1:24:59Tell me about painting. Yeah, I love painting. Painting gives me the same feeling of playing music 30 years ago. Wow, because you've done less of it over the course of your life. There's less intellectualizing of it. So more being lost. Yeah, that sounds great. Be paying down a regular basis. I do. I paint more when I have an exhibition to prepare for and stuff, but I paint on a regular basis. And all my paintings are musically scored. Do you finish the painting first and then score it? I do that more now or appropriate a music piece that I have that I've, you know, composed and I just have it there.

1:25:43And I'm like, oh, this works well with this kind of thing. I do that now. But when I first started, it was the reverse. So I would have a piece of music and then I'd go, what does this piece look like? I see. So you would paint the music? Yeah, I would paint to the specific music. And originally I started using like the musical clef, the bass clef and I started using clocks without arms to denote the notes in the first measure of the music as a score and then paint all around it, you know. So I've got these cool clocks and musical clefs on the paintings and stuff. Music has become so bastardized, you know.

1:26:22It's become a commodity. And I was trying to create a situation where it would be an exclusive experience with something physical. Music's also not physical, you know. Having something physical associated with music creates this new dimension. And for the art, it becomes a multi -sensory experience. It becomes a stronger way of interacting with multiple senses than just visual. I remember one time I came backstage to a show and you had a camera on your head and you were filming everything in your life for some window of time. Yeah, a whole year actually. Tell me about that experience. How do you get the idea?

1:27:06How do I get the idea? I must have seen something POV, like from a person's point of view, with a camera strap. I don't remember what it was, but I must have seen something. It was the year 2011. I remember that vividly. And it was going to be a very busy year workwise. And I thought to myself, this is going to be an incredibly diverse year. Because I was the first year that started touring back with system 2011. I was doing a symphony called Orca, which I did in Austria and Lins. I was doing a solo rock record, touring with my backup band as well as system. Touring with orchestra's around the world.

1:27:45And also wrote a jazz record that year. So I was like, I got to record all this because I don't know how this is going to turn out. Kind of thing. So I started strapping a camera to my head and at shows, at everything. Like I remember rock and reo, I have from that camera. I had it on my head in the beginning and the audience is bouncing. You see that wave? Yeah. Because the music reaches them later. And so it's a wave, you know. And then I put the camera down on the shelf was bass rig and of course the bass shook it. So it became like Batman in the 1960s, that diagonal view. For me, there was also something incredibly psychological about it too.

1:28:23I had inhibitions about working with the band again. Because it had been six years, five, six years, whatever. Which is really not a long period of time. But with the things that had happened in the last days of Mesmerized hypnotize. And I had these inhibitions. And for me, being able to see behind the camera rather than through my own eyes, even though I had the camera and my own eyes, was a way of me dealing with it and processing. It's really interesting. But I didn't realize that until later. Yeah, no, but that's a really interesting point. It just made me more comfortable. Yeah. And you could also then go back and look at, I remember this happening and you could watch it's like, oh, it didn't happen exactly like that.

1:29:07Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, it was fun. I was playing around. So I had three cameras from what I remember. One was like a GoPro where you see it. And it's like, oh, my God, that looks horrible on your head, right? But the other one was spy glasses. Wow. I didn't reveal anything or do anything bad. But I was just, again, it was a way of me. I was just trying to understand my own steps. Did you ever do a project with all the footage? I did. Originally, I planned to make a movie out of it. But then once you actually look at the footage, you realize we're more like birds than you think. Because your head's like, you know, going fast left and right.

1:29:37It's a lot of it becomes unwatchable. And without a story, visuals mean nothing, right? So at the time I was making a documentary called, I am not alone about the revolution in Armenia. And my director friend, Guardian Havanaisian, was also involved with me and I gave him all this footage. And I said, I don't know what to do with all this footage. I want to make a film. But I'm not sure what the story is. Can you help me hash it out? And he did. And we came up with a film called Truth to Power, which we put out a couple of years back. A documentary. And it became more of an activist journey. But we did bring in some of those elements.

1:30:19Because that's cool, you know, like cutting to funny stuff on tour or weird stuff with protests or whatever, just from that shaky camera, the POV thing. And that was an interesting adventure. Again, sometimes you plan something and you get something else. You don't ever know where you're starting and where you're ending up as an artist, which is beautiful. Yeah. How do you say your taste has evolved over the question of your life? I think as you get older, you try more things. And you know, whether it's food or music or art, I think it's important to be always open as an artist to experiences and to try things or see things.

1:31:01You don't necessarily gravitate with. I'll give an example. Years ago, I got this one song from a DJ duo, a well -known DJ duo, and I didn't like the song. So I told my representative, I'm like, I'm not really into this, you know. But that experience taught me something. So the second time, a similar thing happened, and I got some music from an electronic artist, a DJ artist, I didn't say no. I still didn't like the song. But I said, hey, I'm not really into this. Can we meet and have some coffee? Because I'd love to see what else you've got. I was more open to an experience, and I ended up doing a song with that.

1:31:41Okay. So I think that's important to not post it. Close doors. Is there a wrong way to interpret lyrics? No. Nor music. Nor art. You know, nor anything, really. I always relate music to food, you know. You make a pizza, some people like the crust, some people like the cheese, some people like the pepperoni. You can't tell, like, you know. I've had people ask me in a different way, the same question, saying, hey, do you think your lyrics go over the head of some of your audience or something like that, or the activist or political stuff? And it's unfair as someone who creates something to tell people how to enjoy it.

1:32:25It's like me making a pillow, and telling you you have to only have it on your back. Like, that makes no sense. Tell me something that you believe today that you didn't believe when you were younger. When I was younger, I didn't, I couldn't see how we're all interrelated. It's something that over time, over life, and spiritual kind of knowledge and experience, which by the way started with you. Really? I don't know if you know, but you, early in the band's career, I was having these weird nightmarish type of things, but they were daydream nightmarish type of things. I'd be in a shower, in the hot water would hit me, probably lowering my blood pressure, and I'd have these weird things, and I'd almost pass out.

1:33:11Like, just early days of the band. And I remember telling you about it at one of our sessions when we were working together. And you said, you know what I'd like to introduce you to someone? You introduced me to Nancy De Herrera. Who became my teacher for TM, Transcendental Meditation. And that changed my life. Wow. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah, yeah. I missed Nancy. She was the coolest lady. She was the coolest lady. The coolest lady. Yeah, sometimes I'd go up to her house, and she'd be walking the dogs, but her area was so peaceful. I was just waiting for her. I'd already like being a chill zone, you know?

1:33:48Yeah. If you go to a place where someone's meditated for a long time, it has a resonance of peace. It does. Yeah. You feel it in the space. And I remember meditating with her, and, you know, her getting a phone call or something, and she'll pick it up and talk and put it down. And she would look at me and say, meditation is a way of life. You don't have to necessarily cut everything out. You don't have to be think about it. And so, I think all of that and experience in life, like to me, is the connection between all things, the energy. Like all energy is neither created nor destroyed Einstein.

1:34:26You know, it just changes forms, and we are all energy. And that is the biggest thing that's changed in my life. That it's not me anymore. It's everything, right? You know how the Bible says, at the end of times, we will be judged between good and evil. That good and evil, to me, is those that realize everything's interconnected and those that don't. That's all that it is.

1:35:24That's all that's changed in my life.