Travis Barker

26:59And I said, well, you have a drummer or if anything ever changes, I would be honored, you know, flattered for the opportunity. So I wasn't sure what I was gonna do. I was playing in the Acovats. I was living with Bill Fold, who did 98 Possean, ran all these shows. I went out to Detroit and I hung out with Suicide Machines because they were looking for a drummer. Detroit was really different than where I grew up. I couldn't skate. I couldn't do much. It was snowing the five days. I was there and I'm like, man, what do I do? They came home and I got the call first shows tomorrow, San Diego, you're in Blink, and then from there it was just constant touring.

27:39When you joined what was the scale of Blink? Like what were the places you played? If you were to do a headlining show in different places of the country, how many people would come? Probably a thousand. Yeah, it was, they Were some places bigger than others? Yeah, for sure. We were really big. We were in Southern California. Southern California biggest. Yeah, and they told me, like, I remember the first time I went to Australia. Australia was very similar to the states as far as, like, they loved punk rock music. That scene was bubbling, you know? Like, Green Day was popular. Blink was just barely getting popular.

28:16And... Was Green Day already Green Day or were they getting popular? Yeah, because I think what I graduated high school in 93, I think by 94 and 95 like, Duke, he was out right, and it was massive and we weren't that, we weren't nowhere near that big. You feel like before they broke out, they were part of the same scene? Yeah, I just think they were a little earlier than us, probably like five to 10 years old. You be a little older? I think so, yeah. But they definitely kicked the door down, you know, for so many bands. Like you saw them, Rancid, everyone who discovered Green Day and Rancid went back and discovered Operation Ivy.

28:53You started doing the homework and all those bands and then you saw like the offspring you set all this stuff kick off like Epitaph bands, vet records bands, and then if you were a fan then you're like going back you're discovering the descendants You're discovering black flag you're whatever it led me to so many things you know gorilla biscuits Everything the band had already formed before the success of Green Day, let's say it wasn't Green David inspired the band to be No, I think it was just natural. It just happened, you know? And - Because there's always been a punk rock underground. Yeah, I always tell people it doesn't go away.

29:32It's just not what's on the radio. Yeah, and it doesn't change it for me. I'm like, I can always turn on a diagnostic or minor threat or guerrilla biscuits album, and that is my childhood. That makes me feel so like, it's like church for me going to a guerrilla biscuit show and seeing Siv remind everyone we're all the same, we're all human beings. Like, it's like a reset, the most beautiful reset, you know? You join the band, you're playing shows, tell me the whole history from your joining. Yeah, so there was an album called Dude Ranch that was out and I was touring that. I didn't play drums on it.

30:09There was Cheshire Cat, like the album before that and it was like put out by O from fluff, like he recorded it. And I think it was on Cruise Records, I'm not sure. And then they got signed to a major, they put out which label they get signed. Dude Ranch, MCA. And they had a single off that. And then I joined and I did all of the touring for Dude Ranch. Then we got in and we recorded like our first big big album, which was called In a Mother State. I remember it. I remember when it came out. It was a big deal. And that was recorded in a rehearsal room, just us jamming all the songs. And it was kind of the introduction to Blink doing a couple different styles of songs within the genre.

30:57There was like all the small things, which was like a different tempo than we had ever messed with, you know? Like what's my age again? There was all these different rhythms and it was the first time we had all written together. And it was so exciting. And I recorded all the drums to that album in like six or seven hours. We had got, everyone knew their parts, so it was just a matter of coming in. Jerry Finn took like two or three days. We recorded everything separately or together. Everything separate. Drums first. Why? Because I was going, I think I was going on a Vandals tour. They had asked, hey, will you fill in and do this, it was called Turd Town tour, where we play like Sea Markets, like Mexican restaurants and bowling alleys.

31:38That's like, of course, I'm in. And so we had already known all the songs. All the songs were written, went in, got drum sounds for like three days, figured out like what snares we were gonna use, Chick -Area studio in Los Angeles. And then from there I went in, recorded all the songs just to like a click track. And then - When did you first start playing with a click track? Actually, you know what? In and of the state is not to a click. I'm wrong. Take off your pants and jacket the next time is the first one with a click. like Inima the State is all just... Live in the old studio. Yeah. But when did you first play to a quick in life?

32:16Cause it's a very different skill. It is, and I remember I used to hear about it and I was kind of terrified. Yeah. Just cause I didn't know what it was gonna be like. But I didn't play with it in marching band. I didn't play with it growing up like in bands. When you're starting bands, I think the only time I played with it was when I worked with like a drum instructor when I was young. when I was learning how to read music. Like metronome. Yeah, and they would really focus, I remember them always saying, your timing has to be perfect. You are the backbone of the band before, you learn how to do anything else on the drums you need to keep time.

32:53And luckily when I was in the band and I told you I was practicing, I was usually had a practice pad and I had a metronome. So when it came time, we did take off your pants and jacket. I was really, really comfortable. and to figure out like, hey, sometimes like, of course as we push a little bit, let's track the BPM just a beat faster, or two BPMs faster, so stuff like that, then a couple years later it turned into us playing with a click live, and I love it. I need to this day, that's how you do? Yeah, I've done both, and I love both, but for Blink it really works well. I've just done the Food Fighters tribute for Taylor, and there's no click.

33:36And it was beautiful too, because you're just jamming. And I also did a tour with like anti -mask after we recorded our album and everything would just be like, we just look at each other. And right when they see my right hand, go to hit a crash, you know that's the beginning of the song. So stuff like that's fun too, but I think the way we do it with Blink and we do have like, Mug or effects that are just on the album, you know, from like backing tracks. I think it just works really well because we really love being a three -piece. Yeah. Something does happen when it's really in time that's different than when it's free time.

34:14Yeah. For sure. It's not even better or worse, just a different thing. Yeah. And we used to play, if you listen to Mark Traumann's Travis Show, like the tempos are 20 BPMs faster than the albums. It was cool and it was fun, but it sounds a lot like the album now. And we're still very, you know, by the end of the tour, I'm doing different stuff. I'm making parts that are 4 -4, I'm making it half time, doing whatever it makes it exciting and more. It's like, oh, I love that. Whatever we do to keep it fresh, because I don't want to be one of those bands that you go see and there's no reason to really buy a ticket and see them live.

34:48Could you just listen to the record? Yeah, I still like, I love human errors. I love human accidents that are beautiful. I love all that stuff. So where were we in the story? So I just recorded in a mother's state, like with them and did that tour and you know, like when things blew up. It was, you know, I always say like I just keep my head down and keep going because I don't really want to look up. That's kind of how I was. That's kind of how I still am. But it went from a thousand people to playing how many? To playing like amphitheaters and taking like our favorite bands like Bat Religion out to like open for us.

35:27So cool. So cool. And yeah, we didn't know that was coming. We've talked about a lot of music, and you've experienced a lot of music. What would you say was your music? There was some, like the Beastie Boys changed my life. They taught me how to dress. They liked the bad brains like I did. They liked Elvis Costello like I did. There was, I had so much in common with them. They raised, like they raised me. I loved like Tribe Called Quest. I loved like the far side. but I also was listening to like, I know every descendant song, you know? I grew up on... I feel like it's very closely related punk rock and hip hop.

36:02It's like... Sure. Same attitude. Yeah, same spirit. Yeah. So yeah, in skateboarding, you know, like, growing up and watching skate videos, like the music was never just one style. They would... The public enemy would be in it. And then, you know, it would be followed by like, a random, like, four -on -one punk band song, And I would learn so much about music through skateboarding. So, and Blink had that in common too. Like when I got in the band, they were like, found out they also loved the V -ST boys. Like they were just like me, but like the descendants were our Bible, you know? And then we would all have our favorite bands within the genres that we listened to, but like putting them on to like rap music was like exciting and them loving that and finding out like, whoa, I didn't know I'd like this.

36:51You know, that was like, that was cool. And yeah, all of it inspired me. How do you describe the different personalities of the band members? Yeah, interesting. Tom is probably, like, I just said in interview the other day, I was like, when he wasn't in the band again yet, I was driving, he's like, where are you going? And I'm like, I'm going to Utah, like I'm gonna do this nice charity or whatever with post. and we're gonna play Nirvana songs. And he's like, what's post? I'm like post Malone, he's like, who's that? This was like three years ago. I was like, so like he's really not tapped into anything.

37:32Anything. It's kind of beautiful. Absolutely. It's a beautiful thing, you know? He's here. Yeah, where, and he's just kind of hides out and like he still is pure. It's like what you and I spoke about, like punk rock's always been here. It's just might not be at the forefront or on the radio, but it's still bubbling and people are still making that music and people aren't abandoning it, you know? And he's like one of those people I love, like from the moment I met him, he still likes the same bands. And still like that's what matters to him the most. Once in a while, like the other day, he's like, Travis just discovered Fred again.

38:06And I was like, oh awesome. I just discovered O7 Shake, whatever, you know whatever. I'm like cool, like I love that. Mark is just like the kindest human ever. They're both really kind and really easy to get along with and like great friends and like brothers to me Think sometimes you could be in a band with people, but you miss that and I definitely have that with them Yeah, both I could call on at the drop of a dime and they do whatever you know be there for me as a friend And I think we all like I love the cure mark That's his favorite band in the whole world. I have so much in common within both in in different areas

38:56L -M -N -T. Element electrolytes. Have you ever felt dehydrated after an intense workout or a long day in the sun? You want to maximize your endurance and feel your best? Add element electrolytes to your daily routine. Perform better and sleep deeper. Improve your cognitive function. Experience an increase in steady energy with fewer headaches and fewer muscle cramps. Element electrolytes. Drink it in the sauna. Refreshing flavors include grapefruit, citrus, watermelon, and for a limited time chocolate medley, which you can enjoy hot. Formulated with the perfect balance of sodium, potassium and magnesium to keep you hydrated and energized throughout the day.

39:50These minerals help conduct the electricity that powers your nervous system so you can perform at your very best. Element electrolytes are sugar -free, keto -friendly, and great tasting. Minerals are the stuff of life. So visit drinklmnt .com slash tetra and stay salty with element electrolyte. LMNT.

40:24You've been a band for a long time and there aren't that many albums. Tell me when you were together, when you weren't together, why you weren't together, when you weren't. Yeah. Well, we did a few albums without Tom, but we have been made an album with Tom besides this one since an album called Neighborhoods. And... How many did you make from the first album you did with them until Neighborhoods? So, Enema, take up your pants and jacket, untitled, Neighborhoods. Four. And then an EP called Dogs Eating Dogs. So like five. And then, yeah, after that, I just like, the band kind of broke up out of nowhere.

41:05We had just finished Torinj Pan. Well, actually, we broke up before neighborhoods and dogs eating dogs, but that was a big gap right there. What was the breakup? It was just sort of... Well, Tom and I had done a band called Boxcar Racer and the myths of like, blink being massive. I think it was right after untitled or before untitled. And it was like, I was playing him a bunch of music, I was playing him like quick sand and a bunch of like post punk stuff. It's like this is cool, this is heavy, but still kind of punk rock. And then he's like, I have a bunch of riffs like this. After you showed me this, we should jam one day.

41:43I said okay. And then we're jamming and we're like, I don't know if we can use these for blink, right? He's like, yeah, we might have to do something else. We'll just put out an album. I'm not gonna tour it. She's just gonna whatever. When we start making this album, then next thing you know, like Jerry Finn is set up, like he's producing it. It's becoming like a big deal. It's coming out on MCA. It's basically being treated like a blink album, but Mark's not in it. And we just were convinced we couldn't use these songs for blink. Even though we've done stuff like this, not yet in blink, but it could have easily.

42:19Yeah. Yeah, so we end up doing it and then of course, like we put out the album, it does really well. Big marks bummed as he should be. Like when I look back on it, I'm like, it's like of me, you and someone we're in a band and they were like, oh me and Rick are gonna go do a band. We're not gonna put you in it. You know, of course someone's gonna feel some type of way. And then of course everyone's like, tour. So we end up setting up a tour and there was supposed to be no tours. And I think that really just made the band feel really weird. So after that, blink did a tour, we got on from that tour.

42:58Things were really weird. We were supposed to record. They're not aware we get like an email from a manager being like, Tom indefinitely is like out of the band. Like things are too weird for him, whatever. And I was like, okay. We shocked or no? Yeah, I was because I know I mean, you know like you could feel like maybe the energy's off Yeah, or something in any kind of situation, but no one had like heard anyone no one had done anything and no one talked about it What it was going on? Yeah, instead of being like I don't know if Mark was like hey I feel really weird about this and we could apologize or whatever I know at the time we were set up to do a bunch more touring and recording and I think Tom was having issues like his family really wanted him home.

43:47And then he's probably like, ah, it's also weird energy in the band. So we just get this email that was like, Tom's indefinitely taking a break, whatever he's done. Did it feel weird to come in an email instead of him calling you? Yeah, it was cold. Like it just wasn't handled right. Yeah. You know, especially like when you feel like you have a brotherhood with someone. Yeah. It's like pick up the phone because it could be like, hey, I don't feel like doing this right now, but like let's take a year off. also tells us about the nature of the relationship that the relationship was more about having fun making music.

44:18Yeah. than it was about I'm unhappy. For sure. And I think at the time we're touring so much, I know for me, I'm like, hate flying, hate flying forever. So it's always. Yeah, my mom, like, remember my mom took me on a flight to Chicago where she was from when I was a kid and she bald hysterically the whole time. And I don't even know, but at a young age, I think I don't even know why. but not rational. It's just something in our subconscious as well. Yeah, especially your parents who you adore, and you just like, everything they do, they're just, they're your heroes. So I'm like, my mom's really, she hates this, you know?

44:53So I hated it, and I think not to steer off too much, but to like explain it, even when I was like 19 playing in a band called Feeble when I was a trash man, I remember getting the drunk, really drunk for the first time, and I was like, hysterically like crying, kind of like my mom did. Yeah. And telling my manager at the time, like, I'm gonna die in a plane crash. Wow. Like, I have this vision. So, at the time when Blink right before all this too, I like, I'm flying every day. Like, I have developed, and I have kids. Like, I have a newborn son and daughter who I'm leaving and they're like a month old.

45:31So, I developed a really bad obiate addiction. You think if it weren't for the fear of flying, that wouldn't have happened? Yes, I think it was two things. I think it was like in order for me to leave my house, my assistant at the time, little Chris, would have to give me three Norcos and roll me up two blunts just to say buy to my kids. And then I would even want to leave. I didn't want to leave. Yeah, and then Chris would be like, dude, you've got to get in the car, Travis, we're gonna miss the flight. And then I would go and guess what? I had to stay in the car, I had to take a few more pills, smoke a couple more blunts, have a drink, and then I could get on the flight, you know.

46:10So it wasn't partying, it was escape. It was escape, yeah. So around that time, that was probably at all time high to where we're all like, for me, I was self -medicating so much. And then, yeah, when it happened, I was kinda like, I was high. I was with skin head raw from the transplant. I was eating sushi at Matahisa, smoking a backward in the parking lot getting ready to go eat. and they sent the email and I was like, okay, I don't know. I was so numb. No, really numb, it didn't. Yeah, and it was the worst thing that I never wanted to happen. But I remember when that happened, I was like, started slowly, like once in a while talking to DJ and we would like chop it up and I was dating someone, he was dating someone that'd see him out and that'd see a sense.

46:58I do want him. Just like, I met him when he was in Crazy Town and I was in Blink in Germany. I mean, no, he was in Crazy Delf. Yeah, he was the DJ for Crazy Town. I had no idea. And we met there one time, we were like, oh, what's up? You know, set a high. But when I got home, I'd went out like the week Blink broke up, and I saw one of his sets, and I'm like, this is amazing. Like, he's a great DJ. Oh, he is so, he was so gifted. You know? Absolutely great taste. And then someone linked us, my boy Nick, at the time, and I'm like, we should do something. He's like, yeah, we should do something. So we got into a rehearsal room and we jammed for like eight hours straight.

47:37Tell me what that was like. GZD J and your drummer. Yeah, it was the most beautiful magical thing ever. It's like if you were jamming with a guitar player, but he knew every genre. And it was like we jammed for hours, like eight hours and he would play like Beatles records. And it would just be Acapella's and I had to eight away. And I would just play beats underneath it that weren't what Ringo was playing in the Beatles. and then he would play me like rap records that were a capella's and I could flip them. It was almost like live remixing but then we'd play just rock music. We'd play the who we would play like Baltimore bounce records.

48:17We would play everything. So I'm like, I'm playing every genre I've ever loved in these sets that I'm doing with him that are an hour and it was just incredible. and we were cut from the same clock, from like kind of being playboys at the time and being out all the time messing with girls to like the only thing was different is he was sober. And that was always a positive influence on me. That was the best thing I could ever ask for. So I really started focusing on that. We started playing. I think he'd been sober. I think he already had like eight to 10 years under his belt. He was wise beyond his years, especially where I was at, you know?

48:58And he was like into music. He wasn't just like a DJ, that's just playing rap records. He's like, oh yeah, check this out. And he would, that's why he was so good. Yeah, and he was playing records. People wouldn't dare play, you know? He was playing like, since you've been gone, Kelly Clarkson remix is that just, you couldn't, they were undeniable. Yeah, you just were like blown away. So we ended up doing a bunch of stuff together. We ended up playing like, like headlining the Sahara, Tint and Ekochela, like the year before our accident. Have there ever been a drummer DJ combination before? It seems such a foreign idea.

49:38Yeah, it kind of was. Like we didn't know what we were doing. We were just like, this is cool and different. And we had all these cool opportunities. I could have never dreamed of having, unless I was in Blink, like playing the VMAs, doing all this cool stuff. It was like, it kept my chops up. we'd play like two hours straight sometimes. No breaks, there's no talking in between songs. It was just, and I could read his mind and he could read mine. It was, would you always know the music he played or would he ever play something you never heard before? Nah, there would be times when we were like making our set.

50:09I didn't know what he was playing, especially when he like got into justice and like, daft punk, some of it, like it was like their new record and it was, it was just so different. But when we incorporated that into our sound, it opened up a whole other universe of stuff that we could mess with. It was really cool. So yeah, that's what I did and I was really, really content and it was so satisfying, you know. When does Blink come back? Well, like I say, it takes like a catastrophe and like someone almost dying for it to come back. So what happened? Yeah, then my plane crash happens. And I hadn't spoken to Tom in years.

50:57You know, not even like, at this point it's not. Since the email you haven't spoken to him? No. And then it was like, I was in a burn center for like six months and I remember like people being like, oh Tom's trying to get a hold of you. I was like, oh cool. You know, I mean, for the first three months, I didn't know what was going on in there because I was on so many drugs. And I was like so medicated. Like six months in the parents' center. Yeah, I had like 30 surgeries. Wow. So then when I got out, he was like, hey, can I come visit you? Like can I come see you? And I said of course. And then that's when we got back together and we did think neighborhoods.

51:39So that was the first breakup. and then neighborhoods happened and then you did an EP. Yeah. And then what happened? And then it was kind of the same thing we were supposed to record. And then I think we got a message, it's kind of the same thing. It was like, Tom isn't gonna be showing up to record. And this time Mark and I was like, fuck you. Like, you're not gonna do this anymore. And we had torn with like alkaline trio, you know? Was there any weird vibes on that toward? No, that's the thing. And I think it was just like, not such a bad thing this time, but it was the fact it was on the books.

52:17And then we just get the message, A, he's not gonna show up. We're supposed to be there tomorrow. I think it was just, it's just not the way to handle things. You know? Like, I think everyone was just a little offended, by the way it went down. And we had a show like in a week. If he would have reached out and told you, I can't go in here as why. This is what's happening with me. It's different. Yeah. I mean, I understand. I can kind of relate. I've never done something quite like that, but there's been times where I'm going through something personally and I might not like hit someone back or I might not like, I don't know.

52:54I just know I'm not operating like myself. I know like, and I think my close friends know like something's going on. You know, I think something was going on, but we once again it was like, like, we just wish we got a phone call or anything. And I think it had been the second time it happened. And we were just like, you know what? We're just gonna do it without him. We don't have to deal with this anymore. And then Matt Skiva is like great. And he's like a stud and he's like talented. So he came in, played these shows. And then these shows went so well. We decided to like record an album. The album was great.

53:29And then yeah, we did that for a few years. I think it was just a show too, like you can't do this anymore. Yeah, you know, and it just worked. Did that band break up or how did Tom come back? No, so like we're doing that in... How many years? Probably for a good like three or four years. And how many albums? Two. Two in that period. And we're doing it in around that time, I think quarantine like COVID happens. And I'm kind of home more at this time and I'm producing a bunch of stuff and writing a bunch of stuff. And I was just like being able to take a step back and get like a long view and like wide view of everything.

54:11And I was like, man Mark, and I'm talking to Tom every once in a while. And I'm like, I really feel like the future of Blink is me, you and Tom. Whenever it happens. and it's the only way it happens. Once it comes back to that, even if it means like everyone's schedule aligns and we do an album, tour for a year and then take two years off, whatever it is, like we just make a pact that this is blank and we're never gonna have any other version of it because I really believe it's the best version of it, you know, Matt Skiba killed it. Like he did such a great job, like. I understand. So good, but I was like, being able to take a step back and see it like this, I think that we owe it to ourselves to say and hold that standard that that's what it is.

55:07And he was like, I don't know, I don't know. Then he got sick and blinks not really active at the time. Like, you know, he's chilling at home. I'm working on stuff at my studio and then he hits me one day and he's like, yo, I have like stage four cancer. And of course, the worst news I could ever get from him. So I start visiting him, start reaching out. And once again, it takes a catastrophe for everyone to get back and then Tom comes back. I start seeing him at Mark's the same damn there. And then he's like, man, I'd really love to play music with you guys again. At this time, he's like completely out of music, you know?

55:48And I was like, yeah, I mean like first things first marks got to be healthy. Yeah. And then yeah, Mark's healthy and we just start getting in and start recording and writing songs and yeah, the rush to history.

56:18farmers. Macadamias, a rare source of Omega -7 linked to collagen regeneration, enhanced weight management, and better fat metabolism. Macadamias are healthy and bring boosting fats. Macadamias, paleo -friendly, keto and plant -based. Macadamias. No wheat, no dairy, no gluten, no ghee M .O.'s, no preservatives, no palm oil, no added sugar, the house of macadamias. Thy roasted with Namibian sea salt, cracked black pepper, and chocolate dips. Snack bars come in chocolate. Coconut white chocolate and blueberry white chocolate.

57:15Visit houseofmacademius .com slash tetra.

57:26Have you ever had a conversation with Tom saying going forward, if this every time you don't want to do this, would you please call me and tell me what's up? Feel like with Blink being successful because we did have like, not that it matters, it's whatever, but like having a successful album and being on successful tours without him, I think was some type of wake up call, even though he wasn't really immersed in music at the time when we were doing it. He had kind of taken a step back. I think that was a wake up call and I think now with like the album we just made and everything I think it is precious to him and it means more to him than it has in a long time.

58:08and that's a great idea to have that conversation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like it's easier to, I mean, the problem was always never hard to talk to one another. That's what I'm saying. We talk about it when it's good. Yeah. Even back then, like you would have never known by the conversation we had, oh, there's something wrong. It's more like you just get this email and it's like, oh, we could have talked through this. You know? But I love too that it was like, no one kicked anyone's dog or like slept with anyone's girlfriend. It wasn't something like that. It was like just like these unsaid things or maybe you know just hard to talk you know.

58:46Yeah. Using the example of the band you and Tom did not sounding like Blink originally going forward. Do you feel any obligation for Blink to sound any particular way? Now I feel like every album and I always encourage like artists I work with To do this, we've always, and do it organically, and the most sincere way, is like those songs that you wanna write, that you're afraid to write, but makes the ceiling a little higher, the box a little bigger, do so. Like always do those, you know? Like I think with playing songs, like Adam's song in the past where it was a ballad and it was like heart wrenching, that we never written before, just widens.

59:34What the band can be. Yeah, like never putting a limit on what you can or can't do. Like this one, like the ballad, like one more time. One of the big singles on the album, like it's for what? Some people think, some people think probably think like, oh, it's fast, it's punk rock, it's funny. We also have like the most like emotional, you know, heart -wrenching like ballads, whatever, you know. So I think doing that and then there's like a song called Terrified on this album that was an unused box car song that's on the Blink album. So not having necessarily a genre or type of song that can't go on to the album is the most freeing greatest feeling in the world.

1:00:19Yeah and it opens the doors future -wise of as long as you want to make music, you can do it with Blink if you want to because it can be anything. Yeah, yeah, there's no rules. I love that. Tell me about when you stopped all drugs. You stopped cold turkey everything at once. So I had an interesting detox and kind of my version of rehab because I would have never gone. Yeah. I was so addicted to everything I was doing, I remember people used to come to my studio. I would always do a lot of rap sessions while I was in blank doing whatever and I remember like sometimes like I was so used to everyone rolling up and we would smoke the whole time and I remember one time someone came and they're like, unawtoned smoking the more.

1:01:08I was like, what? And I was like, one of some pills, whatever. And I was just like, it was so second nature. Yeah. And I was so shocked like when someone told me for the first time I'm Not taking any pills or smoking and I'm like what happens with you two weeks ago and we were We were smoking a gang of weed and doing whatever and the thing is I couldn't stop Yeah, so when someone said that I was a little scared too. I was like, what do you mean like quitter? Whatever I don't know what I was thinking in my head And I just didn't, I couldn't find it the possibility for me to quit. So, I was, I was going down like a, the wrong path and I didn't think I had a problem.

1:01:54But I think subconsciously I knew I had a problem but I didn't know how to fix it and I didn't want to fix it because I was just so comfortable like any other addict. So, my detox, my which, going through withdrawals, me going to rehab was the burn center. like it was being in a burn center. Being in a hospital for six months. Yeah, and I had like a, I had a really hard time. I self -medicated so much that when they put me down for surgeries, I was waking up mid -surgery. I was like swinging on doctors. Because your toleration was. Yeah, and they're like, we cannot figure out your pain. What's going on?

1:02:34And then they started figuring out, like he has a drug problem. and he's self -medicated so much we can't keep him asleep. So my intention wasn't to hurt these people that were trying to help me during surgery. I was just waking up so scared like, what's going on? After the accident, were you aware of what happened? Well, I was awake during the whole accident. I was able to pull like DJ Am out of the plane. I wasn't able to get like little Chris or Che or the pilots. That's how like my hands caught fire. And then when I got into the burn center, I was so highly medicated. I was in there a month and I was asking someone that came to visit me like, where's Little Chris?

1:03:17Where's Che? Are they in the next room over? I didn't know. Until they started weaning me off like less medication, I found out when I was in the hospital. But no one was telling me either. Because I was just, I was a mess. I wasn't, my pain meds weren't working. I was waking up during surgeries. They were telling me I am partying my foot. It was like blood transfusion after blood transfusion. I was away from my kids. It was the darkest days. So after six months of it, I was obviously not doing any drugs. So it was not on any drug. I didn't want to, I didn't want a single drug in my body for as many surgeries as I had.

1:03:59So. And then when I got out, I remember I was somewhere and I overheard someone being like, oh, like, Travis is so different, man. You notice, like, from all the meds he's on, and I overheard them talking about me. And it was like my brother, like a brother to me. So I went to the doctor and I said, hey, how long do I have to be on these meds? Like, indefinitely, you're probably on it for the rest of your life, you know? Like, the trauma you went through and everything, like, you don't beat yourself up. And I was like, okay. Were they painkillers? Pain killers, bipolar meds, they were just like what you experienced, take all these drugs.

1:04:37You know? But I really didn't feel like myself. And then it was confirmation. I heard someone who's like a brother to me being like, I'm worried about Trap. He's so different. This isn't Trap. And then they also told me, you're never going to be able to run again. You might not be able to play drums again. So after that doctor's visit, something triggered me. and I got home, I threw away all my prescriptions. The ones that the doctors gave me? Yeah, I threw all those away. I practiced that day. I put my practice pad outside, I just played the drums for a little bit. Started going on walks. Was it painful or was it, were you able to do it?

1:05:16The only thing that was the hang up with drumming was my hands were burnt, you know? So they were still healing, but I had nerve damage that I hadn't taken care of yet. So I half of my hand was numb. but it didn't stop me. Like the more they said, you're not gonna be able to do this, you can't do this, you're gonna have to do this. So when you were holding the drums and playing, it didn't feel the same. Yeah, from my middle finger to my pinky, I was numb. Wow. And I was so afraid, I just wanted to come back. Yeah, I got it back. I was so afraid. I was in the hospital, I told him the last day I was there.

1:05:48I was like, hey, is this gonna go away? They're like, oh, you're gonna need to go to a neurologist or whatever, someone that deals with like nerve damage. But I was afraid to say anything because I didn't want to be in there another however many months So I ended up handling it. They did like an ulnar nerve release And I got most of the feeling back in my hand which was awesome, but long story short I started walking Immediately like a just around my neighborhood started playing drums about a month later I was back to running three miles a day. Wow still wasn't on meds And I just yeah Congratulations.

1:06:23Just the, I had a bounce back, you know? And I had my kids at my house with me and I was like the best motivation, the most inspiration. Now, can you play like you could play before? Yeah, everything. Everything's back. The only thing I open up a little bit easier, I think the skin on my hands is a little thinner. So I'll have a lot of bloody shows. Do you wear gloves? No. Have you ever tried? Yeah, I just hate the way it looks. Okay. And for me, I do a lot of intricate, fast things, along with just things that are hard and just driving and I can't have anything between me and the sticks. But most of the time when I open up, it'll be doing something wild and I'll hit a symbol with my knuckle.

1:07:08What about taping up a boxer? I do. I taped these two together because about, it's probably been about six months ago now, on a fluke accident. and I'm playing in a rehearsal room right before Coachella and I break this finger. How? I hit it on the snare drum. Usually I hit it and I'll do what I described and I'll just bleed a little. I looked down and my knuckle was the size of a golf ball and it was stuck straight out. So I had to have like a surgery on that and it's forever like this. These are both drumming injuries. So, but it works fine. Who were the drummers coming up that were like inspirational?

1:07:54Animal, Buddy Rich, Steve Gad, Tommy Lee, Stuart Copeland. It was my mom's favorite band, also, it was the police. So I listened to a lot of Stuart Copeland and didn't even know, but I'm like, the high hat work and everything. It was just so good. and then like the meters, I listened to a lot like James Brown, like all those drummers were great and then even drum machines like I learned how to play like Paul's boutique from front to back like every drum break, every film. Anybody from Polk Rock or Metal World, I guess you mentioned one. Yeah Bill Stevenson from the Descendants. Mickey D from Motorhead loved.

1:08:41Those were probably like my favorite drummers. Also Mickey D and King Diamond was great. I have a funny relationship with King Diamond. It just makes me laugh. I cannot take it seriously. Yeah. It was something that was shown to me when I was in drum line in high school. And for whatever reason, our drum line had this obsession with King Diamond. We used to go, we had this drum room. We would turn off the lights, put on King Diamond, and just like mosh in this drum room and beat the shit out of each other. But it was the musicality in King Diamond that I loved. And then it was like almost King Diamond's vocals just grew on me to where I learned to love it too.

1:09:24And the image and everything. I was him for Halloween when I was a kid. That's funny. Everything my mom used to tear his posters off my wall. but something about like his drumming on them, I can't erase it from a hard drive. It just had like a big effect on me. He would use flams in really interesting ways that the drummers wouldn't. And then when he got in Motorhead, I was like, yes. Like it was, I don't know, just did something for me. My friend Darren from System of a Down loves King Diamond. I would always just be laughing at him. So hilarious. It's just so ridiculous to me.

1:10:02So much of today's life happens on the web. Squarespace is your home base for building your dream presence in an online world. Designing a website is easy using one of Squarespace's best in -class templates. With the built -in style kit, you can change fonts, imagery, margins and menus. So your design will be perfectly tailored to your needs. Discover unbreakable creativity with fluid engine, a highly intuitive drag -and -drop editor. No coding or technical experience is required. Understand your site's performance with in -depth website analytics tools. Two spaces, everything you need to succeed online.

1:10:51Create a blog. monetize a newsletter, make a marketing portfolio, launch an online store. The Squarespace app helps you run your business from anywhere. Track inventory and connect with customers while you're on the go. Whether you're just starting out or already managing a successful brand, Squarespace makes it easy to create and customize a beautiful website. Visit squarespace .com slash tetra and get started today.

1:11:32How's flying for you now? Well, I didn't fly for 15 years. I couldn't even think about it. I went on an aviation trip with my daughter one time for school. And just from my daughter carrying my trauma with her, she walked in this plane, we were supposed to walk in together and she ran out like hysterically crying Which made me cry because I'm seeing my daughter like be affected by my trauma and then I just said I'm never flying. I'm never gonna fly in my life. I used to take the Queen Mary to London That's how I'd get to Europe for tours 10 -day boat ride and then And in my relationship that I'm in right now, my wife had always said, there's so many places I want to go with you.

1:12:19And I said, well, if you ever decide to try to take me, don't give me a heads up. Just tell me the night before, like you need me at a certain time, because I will talk myself out of it, you know? So she told me one night, and she had been doing all these things that she knows works for me, like I've been doing breath work. And that was really, I think I held on to a lot of trauma for my accident and someone told me, like, breath work is amazing, it's so helpful. So I really started doing that and I would have sessions where I would be bawling uncontrollably even though I'd go into them being like, I'm not gonna try.

1:12:56I'm not gonna try the breath work. Yeah, great. Like feeling high as a kite, like outer body experiences, like, it's psychedelic. It is being like, it's rad. I touched like I got in contact with people that had passed away It was like I don't even know I have a million great things to say about it But we did it the night before she had asked to because she knew it was really helpful to me And then she said we're going somewhere tomorrow So I immediately tried to get rid of her I was like you could just stay your house tonight You know because I had this whole plan of like there's no way it's happening I end up doing it and I'm getting on the flight the flights great all of these things I anticipated of how it would feel, didn't happen.

1:13:41The plane didn't crash, everything was fine. Did a few flights. My third flight was like a private flight and we started losing cabin pressure. It was frightening for me. I just begged the pilot, please land the plane. Please don't do any hero shit, no cowboy shit, just lie on the plane. I've been here before. Luckily, cabin pressure is fixed about 40 minutes later and everything was fine. It was really traumatizing for me when it happened. But I didn't let it stop me. I got back on the horse. Great. I think to me, I love doing anything that I'm afraid of, but in this Travis, I can't have anything that holds me back or binds me or controls me.

1:14:23So I still fly. I think it takes a little bit of me away every time I have to fly. Like take off so really hard for me. Yeah. I do some breathing techniques and I get through it and I understand I don't have control of everything and PMA like positive mental attitude and Yeah, I think I've flown about 50 times. What do you say it gets better and better or it stays about the same? I've sort of figured out what works for me like what works for me is putting on like noise -canceling headphones I have also this guy Howard that I've done like energy work with and he has a prayer. You know Howard? Howard is so special to me and his prayer helps me a lot and I listen to those prayers before I take off and I just have my routine and it helps me through it.

1:15:18Beautiful. Yeah. Tell me about taking the Queen Mary across the canal. It's so different than any other life experience anyone will have, unless you do it, but I used to take a bus from LA to New York, then get on the Queen Mary. It's a 10 day boat ride. I would just run every day, bring a drum kit. Where do you run on the treadmill? Yeah, treadmill's on there. Can you run around the deck too? You can. As long as the weather is good, there's a couple times when the weather's been bad. like I've been on the Queen Mary II and been in 25, 30 -foot ways. That's more frightening than flying because it lasts for days at a time.

1:16:00Whereas I started to figure out if it's turbulence, usually it's what? It's like minutes. Yeah, minutes and this I can't escape when it's happening. But I still didn't even flying wasn't even an option so I would just tough it out but I had some Sometimes I was a little afraid on the boat. I would bring a studio out there. I would write and make beats. I'd practice so much and run so much that by the time I got to tour, I'm like, I'm ready. I'm conditioned. It's not like - Was it relaxing? It was. It made me relax. I'm kind of always on the go. Kind of person, very productive. and I like getting into something, even if I don't have some, I create something to do.

1:16:46So it was good. It disciplined me. Would you say most of your creativity goes into music, or are there other things you're interested in doing? Everything's music. I mean, I do have like a couple clothing brands and stuff like that that I love. And like, yeah, but usually it's either producing a writing for Blink or it's producing a writing for somebody else. Tell me about the fact of the different drugs you took at different times, just how they made you feel. Pills for me, I know some people it makes them go to sleep or like mellows them out. To me they would make me wired, numb and really talkative.

1:17:26So it almost, I guess it's kind of like what having a drink to some people does. For me that's what pills did. I remember the first time I took one, I was thinking to myself, why haven't I been doing this all along. Why didn't anyone tell me I should be doing this because this is how I should be feeling. And I probably took a pill every day or few pills every day depending on the day for about six to seven years. So that's what it would do for me. It would kind of take a shot. What kind of pills were they? Like Norcos. I loved Norcos. It's like an opiate, like a version of a I never really liked Xanax unless it just had like a flight.

1:18:11I would take it. Oxy cotton. Those are what I loved. And I loved smoking weed, but I think I got towards the end. I liked backwood more than smoking weed, which is basically tobacco and getting that buzz. And with the tobacco buzz, with the weed buzz, that was nothing could ever compare to that. smoking a joint, hitting a bong because I found that I was also chastened the tobacco high, but they're really hard in your throat. It ended up giving me like pre -cancer of the softener because I was smoking 15 to 20 blunts a day. I think that's what I was chasing because I used to smoke cigarettes for years.

1:18:51So the backwood brought back that. And then drinking was never really a thing for me. Drinking was something that I was just told myself like, have it before you get on the flight because it'll take everything away, like maybe the edge off a little bit more, but opiates in weed was more my addiction. For a short time after my accident, the only thing that I did, but it never really became anything I was addicted to, was drinking like lean, like cough syrup. It was the only thing that could put me to sleep after I got out of the hospital. I had flashbacks and couldn't sleep for about two and a half, three weeks.

1:19:29And now with running and breathing, do you feel like you could feel as good? Well, I guess you didn't really feel good. You just felt numb. Yeah, I was convinced. I remember going back into the studio for the first time, going, hanging out with friends, having a meal. I had to relearn how to do everything. Everything was entirely different. And I was just thinking like right now, I've, like, I can have a drink now, and I can have like whatever out. I can micro -dose with like a friend or whatever, like my wife wants every six months. It's nothing. I don't feel anything. But for the last nine months, I haven't had anything.

1:20:13And you tell yourself all of these things while you're using or while you're taking opiates or drugs that it helps your creativity. It helps all of these things that you think you're dependent on. You're dependent on these drugs to be able to be creative or whatever it is. And I had maybe the most creative nine months of my life, you know, whether it's like coming up with cool concepts for music videos or producing records or doing whatever, nothing assisted by drugs or drinking or opiates. And I feel better than I ever have. Congratulations. It's so cool, right? Yeah, it's the most amazing feeling so cool So lucky, yeah, and that's beautiful.

1:20:56You've never you've never touched anything. Yeah, it just worked out that way I love that tell me more about AM as person AM was The smartest funniest Like coolest Have you ever seen his documentary? Mm -hmm his documentary is great. I think it's called as I am but it shows he was like this like overweight kid who like DJed and everyone would just scratch their head because they're like, how is he pulling these girls? But he was, it didn't matter. He was so just cool and like so obsessed with DJing and like his personality and his talent, like it didn't matter how much he weighed. He was fire.

1:21:45He was like more talented than anyone, you know? and he was like nicer and cooler and just such like a blessing to be around a human like that. You know, for me, I mean, like during my process, there would be times where I'd be like, you're making a big decision. I want you to not do anything for three or four days. Completely sober for four days. Talk to me. Come to an A meeting with me. So I'd go to his A meetings. I'd watch him talk. Watch people complete strangers speak. And all of that stuff was so enlightening to me and I would find when he would challenge me like sober up make that decision.

1:22:23Tell me if your decision is the same and I'd be like, well my decision is even more, I'm even more sure. Yeah. I'm even more positive. Thank you. You know, and he was everything he did with me like led to me being sober because I tried to get sober before my accident. So he was a big part of everything that ended up happening in my life. So cool. Yeah. I only met him a couple of times, but I got a great vibe from him. Yeah, when he, you know, he passed a year after my accident. I didn't know. Yeah, so it was like we both, he was in the hospital for a second together. We were in the accident together.

1:23:02He had a few, he would have gone out of the plane. If I would have just pulled him out of the plane and he didn't try to help me, he would have been untouched. Nothing would have happened to him. But when I grabbed him, then I tried grabbing my assistant, my security, Lil' Chris and Che, my arms caught fire. And then I was so, I was so in a hurry to get out of the plane because I associated fire, jet fuel, all this stuff. I pushed open the emergency exit and I just jumped out just recklessly and I jumped right into the jet where all the fuel was. So my whole body wasn't golfed in flames and I was just running and There was traffic.

1:23:47There was like a highway that I was running against traffic and I just heard someone say stop drop and roll And I was like taking off all my clothes and I was stopped dropping and rolling and like my feet were just drenched in jet fuel So if am wouldn't have padded out my feet Which is what led him to be a burnt a little bit on his elbow and his neck I would have probably lost them, but yeah, so he was in a burn center for about, I don't know, a week. And then I didn't see him for a couple months. And then I had my kids who were everything, they were my rock when I got out. I couldn't, like, the days where I'd wake up and cry and then I'd see them, I'd be like, okay, pull it together.

1:24:33My daughter's right there. Everything's fine. My son's right here. My oldest daughter's right here. And I would see him and we would be like, hey, you want to talk about everything that happened, like what you remember and what I remember and we would sit down and chop it up and he'd be like, man, I'm not doing good. We got to do this thing called retrain our brain. I'm like, yeah, I'm down, whatever it is, I would love to do it, but I'm like, for me, I'm always going to look at my legs, I'm always going to look at my arms, my hands, and I'm going to be like, oh, yeah, I was burnt. There's nothing that's going to tell me.

1:25:03Yeah. Like, I'm never going to be able to convince myself that I wasn't in an accident or. You know, he probably could sort of, because he's not looking down at injuries every day. But he's like, man, I just don't have anything. You have these kids and you have, you know. How long after the accident was this? It was about like six months after. It did. He also got out of the hospital a week after the accident and he went, he started playing shows again. He started flying again. I was like, I couldn't even fathom the thought of doing any of that, but he was. So we talked and I was like, yeah, I'll go try this retrain to the brain thing and we would talk all the time and he would say, you know, I was back on Montorra Blink and he'd be like, you don't care about me.

1:25:51And I'm like, yeah, I do. I love you. I'm gonna heat you right when I get to New York. You know, he was in New York. So we would talk through like texts or like email and then yeah, after 12 years being sober, like overdosed. Do you know if it started after the accident? Yeah, what I was told is he had one therapist, he had seen the whole time. We also had a therapist we would see together as like homies, even before they accident when he was trying to get me sober. And what I was told is he started seeing a new therapist And he started talking to her about how hard it was to fly and she prescribed him Xanax.

1:26:34When he had not had Xanax, this man didn't even take like Advil or Tylenol, you know? So I think that led to other things. Such a sad story. Especially someone who was like, he was the reason I'm sober. You know, the reason I got sober. And I think you're not alone. I feel like he was a light, you know? He really helped people. For sure. When you're playing music, do you feel like your driving the music or the music is driving you? I'm driving the music. So with Blink, all I have is a click and my ear. You're not playing to the music. You're playing to the click. Yeah. Do you listen to the vocals?

1:27:14I can hear a little stage volume. Yeah. I hear enough to know where the song is or whatever. But no, I'm driving everything. I have the click and we're just no matter what, I'm not stopping, you know? It's how it's been since we had a click. And Tom used to be like, don't put me through your ear. Sometimes I'm just fucking up and like, I need you to just keep playing. So it's like, yeah, I'm the one like, no matter what, I'm not gonna stop playing. Like, you know, unless like, we're also, don't take ourselves too seriously. If we fuck up, we're gonna stop and be like, I fucked up, like whatever, let's play this again.

1:27:53and our fans love it and like we can all celebrate it because like you hear them enough to know to stop playing if they stop. Yeah if he just like if he just butchers the intro of a song he's like stop stop stop whatever and then you only stop if somebody yells stop. Yeah. That's really funny. Yeah. That's crazy. Let's say in the recording studio do you ever take into account the vocals when you're drumming. Oh, drum parts? Yeah, always. So how can you do it if you're not hearing them? Well, because my drum parts are already written like live. I see. No, but like, no, I'm like, like how we had talked about earlier, I'm overly cautious about stepping on vocals or the cadence of a vocal or a part to where like after a mind myself like, I don't know, you still do your thing, whatever.

1:28:49I'm like really reserved and almost overly cautious about especially if I'm producing. Yeah. Because I don't want... How'd you learn to do that? I think like one of the first bands I was in, I remember them telling me it was like the first recording I had done and I never really recorded. And they're like, hey, like only do fills going into the chorus. Like set up the chorus nice. Don't be busy during this part. And it was like just songwriting 101. Like don't do that there. I think once I really started paying attention to producing and writing, I really thought reserved as a drummer and then With blink or whatever I'm doing if they tell me to like beam myself Then I will and I'll I'll do it.

1:29:36You know, I'll shine every once in a while, but I grew out of that years ago Do you ever play on sessions for the people just as a drummer? Yeah, a lot. Is it fun? I love it I love it or if I'm producing something I mean I don't move. It's not my choice But if I'm producing something like will you play drums like yeah, of course, you know or I'll say why don't you play drums first And then if you want all go do a take afterwards will pick the drum parts we like you know you can play them or I can Display them and yeah most of the time I'll I'll like end up playing them and The bands pretty cool or whatever the drummer's pretty cool, but that's not my first choice my first choice is like you play it.

1:30:18Of course. And then I'll kind of say like, hey, have you ever thought about doing this here? Yeah. What's the difference between playing on a session as a drummer and being the drummer in a band? So I'm probably more reserved in being my band. I try to do both. I try to like be like, hey, would you like this if you were in the band? And then as a blank fan, what would also would you expect? Or what would you want to hear? A lot of the times when I go in and I do something and they just want to play drums on something and the songs are written and they just want my ideas or whatever, I'll go in and most of the time they're like, okay, do one where you go crazy now.

1:30:57And that's what they use. Really? Yeah, and I'll be like, are you sure? Because I think I'm doing too much, stepping on too much. It makes it more about you than about the song. Yeah, and I think if it's my band and I'm playing drums in it. I'm very cautious about that, but I'm not gonna tell a producer that's doing it. Not I'm not gonna do what you want me to do. I'll say I'm happy to do it, but I think it's a lot. It's finding most people want to play more. Yeah, I imagine it's like if John Fuchante like goes and plays on something, and then they're like, no, we want you to go crazy on it. He's gonna be like, okay, like I will, right?

1:31:34Like I'll do it, but like it's not the first thing that comes to my mind. I feel like I'm, I feel like I am overplaying and it doesn't sound right. I like being able to do that and I like then being told, no, we want you to do you and then I feel comfortable but I feel really great about, I feel just allowing me to tell them my opinion. It's also cool to be able to play so well that you don't have to make it flashy and you can still tell it's great. Just that pocket carries it. Yeah, like Charlie Watts. Yeah. And you know, like, Yeah, those are great drummers and they, there's a reason we like those songs.

1:32:15And even though the drumming isn't anything flashy, it's great, you know, and you have to, yeah, it's hard because I think like the drum community just expects so much out of something and you also have to respect simplicity and holding back. And you're known for playing loud. Dynamically, is it cool to play quiet? Yeah, it's amazing. I love it. You know, I learned over the years too, as like live for me, is dynamics. Are so important, and even adjusting your technique and maybe like conserving your energy like for verses and having to be closed up and then courses are really bigger. And then the big parts of the song really explode.

1:33:03but it doesn't have to all be exploding. You know, I think dynamics are everything. I think it's like what really separates great drummers and musicians from other musicians. You know? But I feel like that's... I don't even think about it anymore. Like when I go on stage, I just recently had started figuring this out because I had it on this last US tour. I've never, it's never really happened to me, but mid -set at start thinking. And I'm like, whoa, this drum part's fucking weird. And the end and I'm like, oh my gosh, Jeff, stop thinking, stop thinking, stop thinking. And I kind of figured it out, but do you know Tim Grover is?

1:33:48He wrote a book called Relentless. And he was, he was, someone just sent me that book. So good. He was Michael Jordan and Kobe's like coach. And like mental coach. And I was like, I was talking to him. and I'm like, I find when that happens lately, I'm like, I say my mom's name who died when I was like 13, she passed away. And I'll be like, mom, and I can snap out of it. And he's like, oh, Travis, this is normal. He's like, Kobe used to tap his shoulder when he was in his head and he's on the court and he's like, thinking too much. Like Jordan used to pull his shorts down. So I have like these resets that I do with him.

1:34:24And I, he also said something interesting. He's like, I don't really think about what's going on I don't know up there, my body's just moving. I'm not like, here comes the first, here comes this. I'm doing this, I don't know what's, my body's just in flow. Like autopilot in a way. Yeah, and it's almost when I think I'm stopping autopilot. Like I just took control of the plane or the car and he's like, Travis, you're not supposed to do that. He's like, after talking to each other a lot, he's like, some people put a mask on to go on stage. They take a drink, they have to get drunk, They have to psych themself up to go on stage.

1:35:01He's like, you, you take a mask off to go on stage. Your mask on is like going through life. Like, because that that's where you feel most comfortable. Let yourself feel comfortable. Keep your mask off. And I was like, oh my gosh. I've never thought about it like that. And he's so spot on and he like Once he broke it down, it hasn't happened. Great. Yeah, and it's just like, yeah, it's so true. It's amazing how just a piece of information can like reset the way we understand things. Yeah, your book helped me a lot in those resets too. Like I would listen to it a lot on the tour. I even, there's one part in your book where you say like try practicing with the lights off or doing what you do with the lights off and I started doing it on tour.

1:35:46Different, right? Yeah, well it's like if I can play because I kind of have this routine where before I even go out on stage about an hour before I start rehearsing. I just start practicing warming up and then I got into the habit like probably a few years ago of just playing the set I played pieces of the set Every song a little bit of each song and I started doing it in the dark because I'm like if I do this in the dark When I go up there, this is the easiest thing ever like it used to just be running through it made me feel like easy and just like I had the utmost confidence when I go up there because I'm like oh I've already been I've already played the whole set This is round two.

1:36:23Now doing it with the lights off or slightly uncomfortable is even more reassuring. You know, it's great. Cool man. Yeah, there's lots of useful things in there. Like I bought it for everyone. I bought it for a lot of people for gifts. It was great. I'm so glad you liked it.