Woody Harrelson

31:17Yeah. I will only do comedies from now on. Even though this one is quite an edgy comedy, Ultramaricanscope, and it was very edgy and said some things where many nights people walked out of the theater. Based on the language or based on the ideas? Ideas. Wow. Yeah.

31:42Because you didn't see the moral center. But if you didn't walk out by the end of the play, you say, oh, yeah, it has a moral center. The best work often people love it or people hate it. Right. You know, the best work divides the audience. Right. Right. Yeah, we did, we actually got to where we were kind of psyched when people walked out. You said earlier, you're on stage, you're doing the play, people laughing, there was one night where it wasn't so good. Yeah. Are you still in the story or are you outside of the story and in yourself questioning why it's not working? That's what's happening.

32:20So you're no longer in the play. Totally. Out of the play. You were commenting on or wondering about the situation. Well, I developed a hate relationship to the audience. I hate these fuckers. Wow. How did they not get how funny that was? Maybe they were right. Maybe we were off that night. But it literally was only one night and at the end of that performance, there was a standing ovation, but let's just say it was maybe two thirds of the audience and a third didn't stand up. Which was to us, I mean, it was rough. We all walked off like, what the fuck? We were just devastated. But for some reason, and by the way, a lot of Americans were there that night.

33:07It challenges, let's just say, the woke nature of America or the... I mean, the play takes place in England. I'm an American, but one's English and one is Northern Irish. But it does challenge the whole, the woke community, let's say. When it starts not working, do you first try harder or no? I try not to try harder. You know, I try to deliver the lines the way they're supposed to be delivered to any. But maybe, you know, maybe I do push now. I don't know. By the way, this has happened to me numerous times. But you've been doing theater for a long time. Yeah, yeah. But that's the best play I ever did.

34:00David Ireland, phenomenal, phenomenal writer. But that was the only night where there was just a disconnect right down the line. And ironically, it was a night where so many people I knew had come. Which was kind of disappointing. When people come, are you more nervous or... I can't know. I make sure they don't tell me. I make sure Laura doesn't tell me. Laura makes sure it's all hush hush. Sometimes it's difficult because I'll like say, I want to go after the play and do whatever. And she's like, well, maybe we could just, you know, try to keep me to stay near the theater. So you stay neutral as best as possible for the shows?

34:48Yeah, I don't want to know. Because then I'd literally, if you were sitting out there, I'd be like, okay, what a Rick, think of that. I might even know where you're sitting and see you. And I'd be like, he didn't laugh at that. I'd take you out of shit, he didn't laugh at all. Yeah, I just get completely out of it. Yeah. I'm sure I'm not the only guy like that. A lot of people that way. Have you ever had an experience where it wasn't working with the audience? And that felt either okay or even good? But sometimes comedians bomb and it has an energy of its own that's not totally negative. It's funny that I'm here telling these jokes and people are not reacting.

35:30It's almost an inside joke. Like Andy Kaufman. Yeah. Yeah. He was great at that. But I don't know. I'm not that type of. I like an actual physical laugh. He's. Yeah. Yeah. But I love watching some of these Andy Kaufman things that are just amazing. Nothing coming back to me. He just keeps going. That's a happening. Yeah. That's a performance piece of some higher level that I can't play on that level. And by the way, I thought Jim Carey when he was, you know, I don't know if you saw the doc and everything. But like, I mean, when he was doing, it was a mellow form in picture too. Like, you know, he did the one after I did with me.

36:18And he was so in character. And he and I saw him going shows. I think I forget. Anyway, you go on talk shows and do that kind of anti -humour, yeah. And boy, I mean, that's brave. That's brave.

36:37After the library incident, now you're working professionally, was there a first time where you felt like a feeling of a breakthrough? Well, that was high school. And so this is before a professor, but when I was in college, I had a breakthrough because I didn't know that I was going to be an actor. It wasn't like everything, you know, just because I did some plays. But I was in college and I did a little part in a couple of plays in college. The best play that my freshman year, I didn't get a part in my buddy, Clint Allen, who became my best friend. He got a part in it. He was the only freshman who got a part in it.

37:24He was called The Diviners by Jamie Lender, Jr. And it's a masterpiece play that's been performed all over the country, high schools, colleges. It's a great play. But for me, I didn't do much in my freshman year. I mean, in other words, I did little parts and I wasn't very good. And then I did my sophomore year. I did a part in this play called Mad Woman of Shia, French play. Translated into English though. And I played just this, like a sergeant, a police sergeant. And I'd come in from upstage and I'd just see the Mad Woman there. Then I'd walk off downstage. So I just did a little half a loop, right?

38:20And that was my first entrance in the play. I don't say anything. Well, just generally, I felt like I was doing terrible. So I go to the guy Doug Rogers was the lead in the play. And I said, Doug, what do I do? And he says, well, if you don't like what you're doing, change it. Do a different voice. Change it clothes. You know, the way you walk, I did all of it. I changed the way I walked. I changed my clothes. I took his advice fully. When I did that little loop, that little half loop, the first night there was an audience, you know, 500 people sitting there, ovation. I'd come offstage and the people were like, what did you do?

39:08I don't know, but I'm going to do it again tomorrow. That's amazing. I started talking like that. But at first entrance, I had that classic kind of short pant with the white socks. And I walked funny, like a little, almost like a penguin or something. I was that walking weird. And anyway, it just, it had this unbelievable effect on me, like this profound impact on me when I did that little non -verbal, half loop. And I was like, oh, I love this. I love this. You know, it was like pure whole thing about creativity, you know? Like, I don't know where that creativity comes from, but prior to talking to Doug Rogers and him encouraging me to try stuff, I wasn't really being creative.

40:08You know, I was saying the lines and I was boring as fuck. But when I finally took it upon myself to get creatively invested in the guy, suddenly it went, you know, great. And so that was a lesson that hopefully I kept using, you know, after that, not always. So when you're doing comedy in a movie and there's no audience, how do you judge what works? Well, usually from the crew. The crew laughs? Yeah, the crew laughs. I mean, they can't laugh while you're rolling. But if they like it at the end of it, you hear it. Not always, you know, so, man, I'll tell you, thank God for the crew. Because otherwise, I mean, I'm really that kind of guy who needs an audience, you know, before I know, did that work?

41:11I mean, I don't know. Did that work? I don't know. Yeah. I get very, at the end of the take, I'll be like, if the crew didn't react or anything. I'm like, well, to the director, who laughed at it. I don't know if that worked. I tried trying something, you know. Do you think of yourself as a comedic actor? I know that that's what I prefer to be. I'll do a drama if it's great, but I'm much prefer making people laugh. That's great. Have you ever done improv? I didn't improv. Well, I do improv, you know, while doing movies and such. Do a good deal of them. So ad living. Ad living. But also improvising like big chunks, you know, like in a lot of the movies, like Larry Flant and White Men Can't Jump, Natural Born Kill, I mean, there's a lot of these.

42:12I really think there's value in it. Because even if it doesn't work, you might find that one little bit that worked great. And also it just feels more real. Because you're it's you thinking and you, I mean, that doesn't negate the need for a great script. You can't just improvise. Does the improvisation happen in the moment or do you think of it in advance? Well, that's not really improv, but yes, that does happen. Like I remember working on when I did Kingpin and Bill Murray would be in between every take. He'd sit there and he'd have a pen and he'd be thinking, writing shit down. He's not like hanging out talking.

42:56He's working. He's coming up with new ideas. And then I'm doing the same thing. And those times I haven't, well, shame on me. Have you ever broken character in laughed? Oh, yeah, all the time. Speaking of with Bill Murray, he's probably caused it more than any other... Just works. You laugh, can't stop. So funny. I just can't not laugh. Yeah. You know, I remember Zombie Land. How many takes we ruined? Because it's me and Jesse Eisenberg and Emma Stone. You know, like we're all laughing. It's very hard to not laugh at Bill Murray. I mean, he's just... He's such a high level of funny. But as for actual improv, getting up on stage doing improv, I did go...

43:50It was in Ireland. There were several great stand -up and also improv comedians there. And so they were doing a show and they said, do you want to come and get up? Well, I got up. I can tell you, I was... Terrible. I mean, terrible. I was just too nervous. And you're among people who were just so great at their craft. And this is a craft that really... I don't think, you know, even though I'm good at improv in that situation of, say, doing a movie where you're on set and... That tend to be good at that. This is a whole other level when there's an audience right there. And then I hadn't learned the whole yes.

44:38And, you know, I didn't know anything about... At least I've studied it in the sense that I've learned about it. And what's his name, Dell? Dell Close. Yeah. You know, like I've studied it because it's a fascinating thing to me. But I would never get up on stage in improvise now because I know I can't. I mean, I could if I probably... If I took this class and... It would just take work. Yeah, it did the work. But if not, I could never do that. In a movie where there are a lot of takes, how different would your performance be from take to take? Funny. I was just working on this thing... Well, there having like a 50th anniversary of Hustler Magazine, and they want to make it do it forward, you know, for Larry.

45:28Who... I tell you what, you know, I really came to love this guy. You got to meet him? Oh, yeah. Because... Because as I say in the thing, you know, I was like... I was really torn because... Well, I grew up in Texas, but then we moved to Ohio when I was 12. And then I'm in Ohio. And while I was there, the Subsentity Trial happened for Larry Flanton. And you talk about when the press decides to go after somebody and all the press is negative. Well, you just absorb it. You can't help but think they're right. It's the devil incarnate, you know what I mean? So, I absorbed all that because I was right there in their Cincinnati where he was having his obscenity trial.

46:16So, when the time came and I got offered by one of the greatest directors of all time, Milo Shformin, to do the part, and I was like, Jesus, this is a quandary. I got to go meet him. If I like him, I'll do it. If I don't like him, I won't do it. So, I went up to Larry Front Enterprises up there at the penthouse of this, you know, Wilshire and Lossianne again around there. And I went up to those offices and I met him. And within five minutes, I'm like, not only am I doing the movie, I think this is one of the most unique, incredible humans I've ever met. Honesty, like I've never seen from anyone.

47:04What do you know about his story? Well, he grew up in Kentucky and his parents were, they did moonshine and, you know, like he was grew up dirt poor. I mean poor. Him and Jimmy Flint, they were extremely poor. And, you know, he was like looking at a playboy. And he's like, he just looks so fake and not, you know, that some degree of authenticity that they're losing with this. And he'd already had these little clubs, you know, where he'd had dancers. But then he decided to start Hustler Magazine. It became successful and it became a real political tool for him, you know. There's a lot about that magazine I don't like, but there's also a lot I admire because he was bold and he was fighting for First Amendment rights.

47:59And, you know, he's saying, hey, you know, they take it away from me. They'll take it away from you. And you look how it's, you know, now you have the trusted news initiative. It's called TNI, trusted news initiative. Now, it began the last election. It started with the BBC, but then all Western media, all mainstream media, and also worldwide joined on this initiative. Try to keep foreign influence out of the election, particularly obviously Russia. Well, who couldn't agree that that's a good idea. But then after the election, they didn't just dismantle. Then they started focusing on other things.

48:44So anything that promoted vaccine hesitancy, anything that questioned the COVID narrative of how, you know, people were getting sick, anything that questioned 5G. You know, there were certain major areas like that where any of those things will not be in mainstream media, period, excised. And I can't tell you how many videos I sent to friends. Oh, man, this is incredible. Watch this video, you know, because it's someone kind of debunking the way they're either debunking the vaccine or the COVID narrative. And gone before they could watch it, it was already gone, right? You know, all over mainstream media everywhere you see it.

49:39Like to this day, you won't hear one positive thing said about Bobby Kennedy, Jr. Nothing, not a word in mainstream media. But you will see a lot of, you'll see negative. Usually they don't mention them at all. But when they mention them, it's a negative. It's like a worm in the brain. Oh, he said the worm in the brain thing. He was what do you call it? Deposition. And the lawyer was asking him about his voice impediment or something. And he said that a doctor had made some suppositions among them. Maybe it has to do with a parasite in the brain. He didn't say it. He's saying that the doctor said it to him in the deposition that the doctor said.

50:27And now people think he just recently said this thing, I got a worm in my brain. And then they ridicule him. Well, that's the way the mainstream media works now. It's all a part of the TNI has become censorship at the highest level. I mean worldwide. How did you first meet Bobby Kennedy? I'm not on a plane. And he ridiculed my, I had hemp shoes on. This is many years ago. They probably were ugly. But then that started to start in a little, yeah, made front of my shoes. And then he and I had a little terse exchange. And then we ended up becoming friends. And that was a five hour flight. So by the end of it, we were in on good terms.

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52:06Refreshing flavors include grapefruit, citrus, watermelon, and chocolate salt. Formulated with the perfect balance of sodium, potassium, and magnesium to keep you hydrated and energized throughout the day. These minerals help conduct the electricity that powers your nervous system so you can perform it your very best. Element electrolytes for sugar -free, keto -friendly, and great tasting. Minerals are the stuff of life. So visit drinklmnt .com slash tetra and stay salty with Element electrolytes. LMNT LMNT LMNT Larry Flint was the first person that you came across who was portrayed in a negative way in the media and then you met him and you realized you weren't getting a straight story.

53:09That was a straight shooter and honest man. Whether you like pornography, you hate pornography, whether you think of pornography as this was one of the most honest guys I ever met. He would just tell it like it is. Was he in the wheelchair when you met him? Yeah. How did that happen? Well it actually was shortly after he offered a million dollars for any information leading to the JFK assassination. They tried to assassinate him. Why was he interested in that? He was interested in all kinds of political stuff. He was bold and he was a thorn in the side of the state. Anyway, so shortly after that they tried to assassinate him.

54:00And the only reason he didn't die is because he had been fasting for two days. Otherwise, because it shot into his intestine and it would have leaped and just, it would have killed him. At least this is what the doctor said at the time, but that he was fasting. But it caused him nerve damage. Then he was in excruciating pain. The doctors decided to cut that nerve to get rid of the pain. But then there was never a chance that he would walk again after that. Wow. Do they ever catch the assassin? Well someone admitted to it. Someone who was already in prison for life was admitted to it. You find the government makes this happen quite a lot.

54:57I'm not saying the government was involved, but I think the government was involved. Yeah. Wow. A lot of times someone who's in prison, they're not getting out anyway, you find that they're like, oh yeah, I did that. That was me. Tell me about Miloche. Miloche was one of the great directors I've ever worked with. One of the great directors I think who's ever lived, you know, up there with the true greats like Scorsese. He was great. He was like a pop -up era. Woody! Give me a hug in the morning. You know, and just like had that, like I say, that family. And this was a dysfunctional family. Yeah.

55:43Courtney Love and Ed Norton. And how was the experience of making that movie? It's one of the great experiences for sure I ever had. And I still love Courtney and Ed. And so I feel like maybe that could be the best movie I ever made. And it might at the end of my life be the best movie I ever made. I just, I got to work with one of the goats. Yeah. How different are the different directors you've gotten to work with? You have to work with so many interesting people. They're all quite different. But I feel like the greatest ones are very open to, okay, let's try this. You know, me lush, let me, there was a whole scene that he let me direct and edit.

56:38I was in the editing bay. And not only that, it was like where Larry Flint is talking about, oh, obscenity. You know, they say this is obscene, a woman's breast or whatever. But meanwhile, you can watch murder, you know, all day long on television. Or this is okay. And you know, show a scene from Vietnam, which at that point was, I think it was just after Vietnam. Vietnam ended in 75. So, you know, obviously he's going to have the last say on everything. But he let me kind of put this whole thing together. Cool. Because it's Larry Flint on a stage and there's these images behind him. And so, what those images were, you know, I actually went as far as like negotiating with agents of photographers.

57:35Can we use that for how much? But what I was going to say was, because you originally asked me how different these improvise things end up being, how different a scene will be. And there's a scene where I proposed to Courtney's character. She played Althea Flint and we're in a jacuzzi. And I had been very anxious about the fact that the scene was going to be shot just one camera one way. But we were used to improvising because that was the thing Milo's got me doing. He got me with countless actresses like Holly Hunter to me. She's like a titan. All these different actresses came in and I would act with them and we'd improvise stuff and we'd try stuff.

58:30And it was many months before where we finally shot it. You know, so that when that scene, he finally showed me three completely different scenes of the proposal. So it did change quite a bit and my God was it was a blissful experience. It's like to me, you know, like you talk about like in your book about that whole creative thing. There was so much creative energy in that movie and from actors to DP, the director. I don't know, I felt like it really, I love how it turned out. I haven't seen it in a long time. It speaks to Milo's self confidence. He knew he could allow you to try something and go as far as you could with it.

59:23But he wasn't afraid of trying something new. He was that guy. He was so confident about that kind of thing. So he just wasn't risk adverse, as you might say. Did Larry get to see the movie finished? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. He loved it. He did. That's great. It was a beautiful film. It was like, you know, a lot of it having to do with his love for Althea. How was it different playing a real person versus a fictional character? It's absolutely put somewhat of a burden of, you know, like I remember because there was an obscenity trial and Cincinnati. And Larry played the judge who by the way he hated this guy.

1:00:17He was terrible, you know, very conservative prejudice judge, right? So I just got a little self -conscious being Larry in front of Larry, you know? But yeah, it turned out good. Have you ever had to compete to get a part? Yeah. What's that like? Well, I mean, that's the whole beginning of every actor's career. You know, you're lucky if eventually you don't have to audition anymore, but auditioning is... That is a whole nother animal. I had a hard time with it. The times that I was finally able to break free had to do with kind of artificial means, like for example, when I was auditioning for the first major major audition that really helped change the course of my life, was for Baleuxi Blues, Neil Simon.

1:01:24And, you know, without getting into a lot of detail, I was... I had a terrible fight. Anyway, I was leaving New York, right? Then I was gonna go back to Ohio and write a play. And then with that play, I was gonna come back to New York and... You know? A lot of people had this dream. But anyway, that's what I was... Finally, I'd had it. New York won. New York won. I lost. I was going back to where my mom was living in Lebanon, Ohio. And now I had an agent at that point. Getting the agent was a very tough deal, but she sent me on one last audition. And that audition was for Neil Simon play, Baleuxi Blues.

1:02:17And when I went into audition for the casting person, I didn't know that Neil Simon was sitting in the back of the... Because I was auditioning for an understudy role. Like, what playwright of his renowned is gonna be sitting in the theater watching. Well, luckily he was. And so it went well. And by the way, it only went well because, well, I'm out of here. You know what I mean? I'm leaving. I give up. I'm done. There's nothing you can do to me. That's really interesting. It's really crucial. The other time it happened was equally crucial. But anyways, so then I get called back in. I was understudying two roles.

1:03:03And I mean, I got to say I did well. And then later that day they called me. You got it. And every one of those people were looking at their, you know, whoever they were understudying. And then they might have been quite pissed off. Many of them felt they could do better than the person. May I was happy as could be. I auditioned for the understudy. I got it. I got it. And by the way, both of those guys are doing that part better than I could do it. Wow. So I was happy. And then the other time was when I auditioned for cheers. Because at that point, I told you I'd been doing the play. And I got a little sabbatical from the play to go do the Goldie Han movie.

1:03:51And someone kind of filled in for me. And then both of the guys got fired who I was understudying in the Neil Simon play. They got fired. He was on Broadway in the Neil Simon theater, right? It was my dream. Like also I was a fanatical fan and still am of Neil Simon. So they got fired and they called me. Can you be able to come back and play the part? Oh, yeah, baby. I was 23. It was my dream come true to be on Broadway in Neil Simon play. Well, then I auditioned for cheers. If I got it, great. But I'm already going to be on Broadway. Like it didn't matter to me. Like I didn't realize what a huge life change it was going to be and how important it was.

1:04:44It would be to my, I can't imagine that I'm not having been in my life now. But at the time I was like, no problem. I'll go do this other thing. Yeah, I'll go do Broadway. That's my dream anyway. I don't want to do television. So when I went in for that audition, I was really free. But it was fun in the audition. It was Laurie Opendom was the casting person there at Paramount that she worked for NBC. But anyway, I went in and auditioned for her. And she was like, I could tell she was like, whoa. Now they'd almost cast a guy. He was pretty much locked in. He was going to play Woody. But I went in and, you know, like I say, what do I care?

1:05:29I'm sad. Nothing to lose. I'm nothing to lose. Yeah. And by the way, that's the thing that kills people in auditions. Is their desperation. But when you go in and you get nothing to lose, so is it freeing? It's like if freeing yourself from the inertia of like, I got to get this, you know. And I did well with Laurie and she's like, can you come with me? And I follow her and, you know, we went through a door and we seemed like we went through another door. And I don't know when we're going into the room with the people, which ended up being Jimmy Burles and the Charles Brothers and everybody. And just before we entered that room, I had a running nose, you know.

1:06:15And as she opens the door going into the room, hawk, you know, from blowing my nose. Amazing. And the entire room just burst out laughing. Amazing. And it was a complete mistake, you know what I mean? It was accidental. Yeah. And Jimmy told me later, you had the part that moment. You had the part had to blow your nose. The universe was intervening. Yeah, I don't know, maybe. I mean, don't you feel like there's a universal intervention with creative acts? Absolutely all the time. And when you come to realize that's what it is, you start seeing it happens all the time. Right. Right. If you're not paying attention, it'll just go by because business is usual.

1:07:00Right. But when you pay attention, so many little details that could have gone a different way, just kind of fall into place. But the not paying attention is like distraction by fear or doubt. Yeah. Right. And those are the things that keep you out of that creative flow.

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1:08:44How much of your life outside of your work informs your work? I think there are some people who live in a bubble, but I do feel like I get a lot of time among, you know, just regular folks. So I feel like it is important to try to not be too trapped inside your bubble. Sure you're going to have a bit of a bubble just because of the nature of, we're in a very rarefied air. We're lucky. I remember seeing a guy, oh yeah, recently in Copenhagen. He was working. He was being pulled away to work, but I just wanted to keep talking to him because I'm like, there are things this guy is doing that I have to...

1:09:37This is a character. You know what I mean? You can get cues out in the world if you're paying attention. If you're not open to it, it'll all just go by. But it's always there. Yeah, it's like a classic example is when Mick Jagger was in line, or I don't feel it was him or Keith Richards and they were in line. And they get up to the thing and they ask for something that they didn't have. And the guy goes, you can't always get what you want. He's like, you know, that's not bad. Good phrase. Can you think of any examples of something that you saw out in the world that ended up happening in one of your characters?

1:10:24Oh my God, it's happened a lot. I remember one time I was following my brother on the motorcycle. And then we got to wherever we would go. And then he took off his helmet and he had this long, blonde hair down to almost his shoulders. And he kind of shook his head. And I had just gotten the part for Hamich for Hunger Games. And I was like, that's the hair. Luckily with me, I could have anything I'd... Maybe hair you want. Or no hair at all, of course I can do that. But you know, just things people say or... Yeah, I use that stuff all the time. I find little things all the time that are helpful out in the world.

1:11:22In the middle of a performance, are you aware of what you're doing technically? Or do you just disappear into the character? No, if I'm aware, I'm fucked. You're just in it. I'm just in it. You know, I don't want something to be preordained. I know you're that way. I know you're like, you don't want to get bogged down in the technical. You're in the creative. You're in the...you know, you're a listener. If you're reading a script that you know you're going to do, what's the process of preparing from an early script read until you get to the point of playing your character? What are all the things that you do?

1:12:10You know, whatever the profession is, I might study that profession as much as possible. Or, you know, like, maybe I'll play this truck driver. So, you know, I probably go hang out with truck drivers. I study, read any book that about truck drivers, you know, talking to the designer about clothes and how this would work. And what about a scar for... You know, I don't know. Not necessarily a scar for a truck driver. But, you know, like, what about this hat or that? You know, it's just start thinking of the external things. Maybe I want to talk like just a little different... You know, I might want to try some funny shit with the way I talk or the way I...

1:12:59You know, I just try to get into the headspace of a truck driver in this case. So, in that sense, I might read, you know, a dozen books. I remember when I was playing in Nachborn Killers. You know, I studied all those motherfuckers, Gacy, Manson, and I read his autobiography, read Saul documentary after documentary. Everything I could try to... And that was an unpleasant time. I didn't like it at all. But they all have a commonality. You know, they all had fucked up, unloved childhoods, you know. All of them. And I imagine all those people today who commit the school shootings. They never got any love.

1:13:51Not at home, not at school. And they just developed this hate toward everybody. But, you know, just try to get in the headspace. Tell me the story of natural born killers. Well, it was kind of weird because I was on cheers. I was on the final season of cheers. I didn't realize that it was that close to cheers. Yeah, I was cast while I was still on cheers. Amazing. And all I'd done that he might have seen was... Let me think. Yeah, he could have seen white men can't jump. What hadn't come out yet was indecent proposal. But he might have seen that white men can't jump. And he certainly had seen cheers.

1:14:40But there was no real logic to him casting me. But he just said, something in my eyes where he thought I could be convincing serial killer. You remember your first meeting with Oliver? Well, I had met Oliver years before because he was doing this first movie. The movie that made him a celebrated director. And he was auditioning people. This is before I'd done anything. And I came in and he brought me in a few times. And he had me do improv and different things. And then the money fell out. And by the time he finally got the money together, I was on cheers. And I came in again. And he's like, this is how the meeting went.

1:15:30I'm sitting there and he goes, you're doing a television show. And I'm like, yeah, cheers. He goes, you're not available. What are you doing in my office? I'm like, okay, and I literally, okay, sorry. Good meeting. That was the next time I had met him after those earlier audition. Then, you know, later on, I get word he wants me to be in natural wine killers. And I remember like a year before having been greatly enamored of him as a director. I mean, I thought JFK was just a fricking masterpiece. We're not to mention everything he does. Phenomenal masterpiece. And I'd seen he was on the cover of Newsweek.

1:16:24Just to show you how the censorship works in America. And it was like, it's a JFK. But, you know, it had a picture of him and JFK and something where it was doubting the verisimilitude of what was in the movie. In the front page of Newsweek, I believe it was. Anyway, it was sitting on that table. We were living in Malibu at the time. And I remember looking at Lord God. God, I'd love to work with that guy. And then it was only like two years later. And I say, I get a thing and he wants me to do it. And boy, it was I psyched to work with him. I bet. I felt like the script needed a lot of work. It was a Quentin Tantino script, which I do admire Quentin Tantino.

1:17:17But that particular script it had. Was that his first script? No, I think he'd done other scripts. But he wasn't like, he wasn't Quentin Tantino yet. He hadn't directed anything yet. Yeah, I don't think he'd done his big debut. But, you know, so as soon as we wrap Cheers, the final episode, Indies and Proposal came out and I started working on natural born killers all at the same time. It's an unbelievable trajectory because at that point in time, going from television to movies didn't happen so often. No, that was, in fact, I was six years where I couldn't get anything. You were thought of as a TV actor.

1:18:04Well, also a very specific kind of, you know, like play I played down there. Some characters in my own view, naive. But, you know, trusting. So, you know, I'm playing these characters, a specific type of character and I'm on obviously a very popular show. Even like friends, you know, you expect every one of those guys to go on to, you know, big careers because they were all fucking great. You know, so it just shows of how the difficulty of the transition, I mean, even to this day, it's rare. But back then it was very rare. You know, guys like Michael J. Fox and Bruce Willis and Michael Douglas had done it.

1:18:55But it was like, literally, it was a handful of people. Are you aware of any practices you do that you don't know any other actors who do? No, I think everybody up stages.

1:19:11And everybody, a lot of people chew the scenery. You know what I'm saying? No, I don't have any, I can't say I do anything unique, but my belief about acting is, it's kind of like you talk about in your book, you know, like everybody has that creative instinct. It's in all of us, you know, question is how do you clear the path? So I feel like the same is true for acting. Like you just think how many interesting people there are. And oh, if they can only do that when the camera's rolling. Yeah. But what happens is they say rolling and this immediately, this fencer goes, you know, and just you get, it's the nervousness and the fear and the doubting and all of those understandable emotions that come up, that keep a person from necessarily being able to do what they could do.

1:20:15And like my suggestion for example, my daughter, right? Like now I have three daughters and each one of them have tried their hand at acting. And I will say there's nothing you want less than your child to go into this profession. You know there's going to be disappointment and just sometimes it's going to be heartbreaking. But she's going for it. And kind of like the thing I feel with her is like, hey. Do yoga. The big thing you need to do is just to be as relaxed as you can so you can be in a state of basically dynamic relaxation, where you're active but also relaxed at the same time. And you might be in a very intense scene, but there's underneath it, the root of it has certain relaxation element.

1:21:13And I do feel like that's a crucial thing. Whenever they're rolling and I'm just tense, it just doesn't work. Have you gotten better at being able to be relaxed in any situation? Definitely. And it just comes with time, right? Yeah. I mean, even back when I first went on cheers in the very first scene, you know, I come out. Now I'm conscious of the fact that I'm replacing this beloved actor, Nikolas Anta, who had died, which is the only reason I'm able to do this part. And I'm waiting off stage. And then it's also a beloved show, beloved actor, one of the most, you know, maybe the heart of the show according to Ted Danson.

1:22:13And, you know, I'm waiting for the red light off stage to tell us to walk into the bar. And I'm talking the level of nerves is insanity. And also it's 500 people or more in the audience, the live audience, not to mention there's going to be million watching it at home later. So the pressure was crazy. And if it hadn't been for my theater experience and doing all those plays in college, I couldn't have done it. I mean, I just couldn't have done it if I didn't have some kind of that kind of backbone, like you say, you know, that just the work.

1:22:58What's the most you've ever had to change yourself for a character that you played, either physically or having to learn something difficult? It might have been OBJ because I got, you know, there was good deal of prosthetics, which I thought they did a good job with the prosthetics. But I also, it's ironic because he's also a Texan. But he was from the Hill Country and so just... Different accent. Yeah, it was a different accent even though it's so similar because it's still Texan, you know, but... Oh my God, that used to mess with me, like trying to get his, the way he would talk in his cadence and everything and try to move like a mountain god.

1:23:46Would you listen to recordings of them? It's not a way to do it. Constant. Constant. Like when I'm in the makeup chair every single day, you know, I'd listen to his phone calls because he recorded all of his phone calls. The only call that got erased was the very first day that he was in office. November 22nd, 1963, between him and Jay Edgar, who... Right after the assassination. He came to the... ...over office and he had a conversation with Hoover, which was recorded. And it was the only one deleted. But he did have a conversation with them seven days later. He was talking about forming the Warren Commission, which was a method to get rid of the Senate and House investigations.

1:24:39There was two investigations that were going on and they managed to get rid of those because they started the Warren Commission and the Warren Commission. And at the time of that phone call, which was literally one week later, the FBI report was on his desk. So what is that? Six days they'd done it because this was the seventh. This is 29th. And there was that report on his desk saying, oh, Monge Unman, this one crazy guy. It's been a lot of time in Russia, you know. And the Warren Commission was just to rubber stamp that. And who controlled that? It wasn't Chief Warren. Earl Warren was busy with the Supreme Court.

1:25:29Now, Alan Delas created the CIA and certainly influential. And shall we say the demise of JFK. But anyway, in the course of that conversation, when I listen to that, I was like, oh, the hellbj was definitely involved. No question. I listen to that many times, but I know I got off base because I always like to just say, oh, fuck our government. But anyway, yeah, I used to listen constantly to him. And that was what was actually harder. It would have been easier to speak with like a French accent or something just because it was too close. And these little jumps, oh, he says this like that instead of, you know, that took a lot of work.

1:26:25But I love that film, Rob Reiner. I love it. I think he did a great job. Tell me about Rob Reiner. What was it like working with him? He's amazing, man. I was, I'm nuts about Rob Reiner. Did Rob believe that LBJ was involved? I don't recall him ever saying that. I don't think he did. And by the way, you know, it was well after I was committed before I developed that belief or I don't think I would have done it. Did you play him like you might have done it? No, I didn't. I did not. I, you know, there's a part of me that wanted to address the elephant in the room, but it just sort of made it a whole nother movie.

1:27:11You know, that's not what the movie was about. The movie was about LBJ did some good shit. You know, he got the voting rights act through and other, you know, he was a guy who got shit done. He was the head of the Senate for so long. And, you know, he was a true political operator. And then of course, he became when he was vice president to JFK. He didn't like JFK and the Kennedys didn't like him. But they were put together so that JFK could win? Well, it was JFK's idea, I believe, because JFK knew he needed the South. And he thought LBJ could deliver the South. But once LBJ became vice president, all of his power went away and he just became almost ignored, you know what I mean?

1:28:02And he was ignored by the Kennedys certainly. But he did unbelievable legislation once he became president. He got a lot of shit through. Tell me about the types of conversations you have with a director. It's usually in the beginning about the script. I always take notes on scripts and I think good notes, you know, I constantly reading every day. Every single day, usually several times throughout the day, I'm reading books, you know. But I also, what kind of books do you read? Just all kinds of books, all kinds. Like right now, I'm reading, well, I'm kind of reading two books. I'm reading interviews with Fellini.

1:28:48But I'm also reading this book. It's called The Russian Tradition. It's just really fascinating. I've learned a lot already. Well, that's more of a historic, I like reading. I like reading, you know, historical stuff or biographies or... What percentage of the things you read are for work versus not? If I'm getting ready to work, it's all that. But if you don't have a job to prepare for in that moment, you're free and just read what's interesting to you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Tell me the extremes of your involvement in a project beyond the acting performance. Well, I'm very involved in the script.

1:29:31If the script is great, hallelujah. But frequently, there's a lot needs doing with the script. Would you ask questions like, why is this character saying this or what's supposed to be happening here? Or this plot point doesn't work? Yeah, yeah, all of that. You know, like I did a movie with Will Smith. And Will Smith probably one of the most impressive careers in terms of just going from success to success. You know, I mean, probably no one has a better career than Tom Cruise or Leo DeCaprio, but you're almost there. You know, like success to success. You know, when I worked with them, he was like always about like when we were doing rehearsal, what can we do to get more emotional charge into this scene?

1:30:27You know, he just really smart that way and relentless in terms of his pursuit. That's great. And that affected me. I want to always figure out how can this scene could be better if we just... Why don't we see this thing? It happens off -state. That's interesting. You know, like those kind of things. You know, like when you see a lot of scripts, so many scripts over the years, eventually you start to get a... You know, a handle on what it is it might need, you know? By the time you're shooting the first scene of a movie, would you say you have your character completely worked out or might he still change as the shooting goes on?

1:31:09I don't know if it's not worked out or it just completeed out. The night before I shoot any movie, I'm flooded with doubt, I'm awake through the night. And I mean, it's still, I'm 63 years old, right? I don't even understand it myself. How the fuck am I still so insecure? It's because you want it to be good. That's why. You want it to be good. And it's scary. You're not free. You care about the outcome, so you're invested. Yeah. So you have doubt that first day? Does the doubt go away at the end of the first day, typically? It usually starts to diminish after the first take. And then, you know, like after a few takes, you know, I might be completely calmed down by the time we get that first take in the can.

1:32:03And then, you know, after the next day, I might have a little more, and then by the third day or something, there's my whole vast, somewhat confident self. You know, I'm starting to work in a week, right? Like, I know. And this is a sequel that I've done two others. You know, it's now you see me three. Yeah. And it's just like same character, most of the same cast. But I know that the night before I won't sleep, I'll be tossing and turning, I'll be freaking out. And I'll be completely well versed with the scene. I'm about to shoot, but I'll just be, I don't know why. But it just something in me.

1:32:51And that's probably the best version of it when you've already worked on two. You're showing up to something very familiar. Well, the character's familiar, but the scene is obviously unique. Yeah. And I guess that's where the trepidation, you know. Yeah. How is doing sequels or trilogy different than a first time movie? Yeah. I mean, like I did the Hunger Games, I got to do four movies. I mean, you eventually do adopt a great familiarity with the other actors, the director, maybe if it's the same director. This is not the same director for now. You see me three, but I've worked with him several times, Ruben Fleischer.

1:33:39And he's phenomenal. He did Zambelian one and two. He did the first Venom. He cast me in that. He's great. So you're trusting the director. He's a lot of what kind of qualifies that trepidation and the other actors. Jesse Eisenberg, man, that guy's a fucking genius, man. He's a genius. He's so great. I love him. I love him. So I'm psyched to see him, Dave Franco. No, it's going to be a great experience. What are your all -time favorite movies? My all -time favorite movie is Cool Handbook. I don't know why. You know, a guy who's been wronged by the system. A rebel. How old were you when you first saw it?

1:34:36Geez, I don't know. I think I must have been... Kid. Yeah, in my teens. Yeah. Tell me the story of the movie that you directed that was all shot in one night. What's it called? Lost in London. Tell me the story from the beginning. I'd been writing on that, on that Lost in London. And I'd also been writing on this other thing which I never have followed through on yet called The Misadventures of Mr. Fitz. Because I still have to rewrite the last third of that movie. But what I liked about the idea of doing that is I thought... I became kind of mystified and fascinated by these one -take movies, like Veronica.

1:35:27Because I'm fascinated by theater. I'm fascinated by sidewalk painting. You see that sidewalk painting? They're going to wash that away. It won't be there tomorrow. So you're just seeing in the moment something that is kind of unique. So I came to think that how cool it would be because I saw a way that I could do this Lost in London in one take. There's based on stuff that had actually happened to me in London, including getting arrested and some stuff with the tab. Different things happened and all of it kind of... I could see how you could make it into a... Well, at least one take. And then it became, well, I was thinking multiple cameras, but then it'd be like, no, one camera.

1:36:23So it became a one -camera thing. And then I was sitting talking with my buddy Tom Cartsos and Tom goes, wait, why don't you just shoot it and live stream it into theaters? While it happens. Well, this had never been done before. I didn't even know it could be done. Well, it couldn't because I went to different people and they were all saying, no, it can't be done. Now you can do like, they'd had the thing where you're showing a... A boxing match, a pay -per -view. Well, yeah, like that. But certainly also like in the theater where you're seeing a play. But that's all in one look. Okay, filming the performance of a stage play.

1:37:05Of a stage play. And live streamed into a theater while doing it. Okay, but that's a whole different thing because this had 14 different locations. This had like five different vehicles of police vana. A lot to go wrong. A lot to go wrong. And also there was something to do with line of sight where if you're outdoors, you need to be able to... The antenna needs to get to the big antenna on top of this building in order... To be able to stream it live. Stream it live into the United States. It's shot at like three in the morning. And so the sound thing was fucked. You know, it just wasn't working.

1:37:44And also even the live feed the night before we shot went out for 45 minutes. Like if this happens tomorrow, we're done. It's a disaster. The same thing with the sound just never got worked out. And then finally at the last minute, you know, my buddy Ant did the music. Which also had to be played in live, even though recorded stuff, but played in live. And sometimes he would add stuff to it live. You didn't do it to a stopwatch, or did you? We'd only had run through twice before. We did two the night before. That's what it was. I see. And then we did the one. That night. Yeah. Yeah, it was... I was freaking out.

1:38:28I said, Ant, find the guy who is the guy. These sound guy who can figure out this thing. There was like a pack. And that was carried on the back of it. All these different antennas shooting out. But the guy who was the camera guy, you know, had that on his back. And then if we got into a taxi, whatever, then he gets in on the other side. You know, like, almost technical shit. It was kind of... Eventually it was affecting my health, you know? He's not able to sleep. And it was very, very difficult. How long did you have to plan it for to be able to make it happen in that one shot? Two months. Yeah.

1:39:10I mean, you know, there was a lot of work on the script up to the beginning of that two month period. We were at the rehearsal and then the cameras following and all of that was a couple of months. Then the day of the... When we're going to do it that night, in the late afternoon, we were using Waterloo Bridge for the final scene. Very important, you know. And we had, you know, cops helping us and stuff. But they say that we've discovered an unexploded World War II ordination. A bomb right next to Waterloo Bridge. They're shutting down the bridge. The bridge that's been open since World War II.

1:39:56Since World War II. It's not being jailed down hours before, you know, well, whatever. Maybe eight hours before we're filming or seven hours before we're filming. And I'm like... That's insane. Well, the Navy sending a bar, they're going to pick it up, they're going to put it on the bars. And I was so exhausted at that point. So it's sleep deprived. That I was like, we finished all whatever rehearsals and everything. And I'm like, I had to go sleep. So when I went to go to sleep, that was still the issue. And then I woke up to, you know, to go finally do the thing. So that this must have been maybe like ten o 'clock or something.

1:40:41It was still an issue. Wow. And I'm like trying to figure out who knows the head of the Navy. You know, like I'm so freaked. What am I going to do? I don't know what to do. No. If we don't have that location, we're all blocked out there. Well, then I wake up, you know, I don't know, probably midnight or something. It go one o 'clock. And then as we're walking toward getting ready to shoot the first thing, the first AD says to me, we got that worked out. They got the bomb. That's great. And by the way, at the time, I'm just like, okay, like... I never liked Hitler, but now it's personal. You know what I mean?

1:41:27Anyway, they finally, they got it taken away and we got to use the bridge. There's still, I got to say, there's a million things I would have done different, you know, that I thought of after. I still, to this day, will think of this, so that thing I should have done. But it was a noble experiment. And now, because I'm going to do another one, and I think I'll do an encopenhagen, it'll be live, and with Lord Nearn. Great. And yeah, so... It sounds like a really cool, new format. It's just an exciting, new way to make something. Yeah. It's the perfect convergence of theater and film. Yeah. When you leave the set at the end of the day, can you leave the character behind, or does some of the character come with you during the whole time you're shooting?

1:42:18Depends, you know? Sometimes, like with MBK, I think I got very immersed, you know? Now, remember, going one time... I think it was in Chicago or somewhere, I went to dinner after, and there's these people who would smoke in cigars. I think this was in Paris, and I was promoting MBK. Yeah. Man, that took me a minute to shake. It sent me into a dark kind of... I really did a lot of shadow work. Anyway, I got to this restaurant, and they're smoking cigars after they eat. This is back when people still smoked in restaurants and such. But, you know, how cigars are another level of... You're about to become a cigar smoker.

1:43:14But... And so, I went over to the two men that were sitting... Like I was at a long table with, you know, Oliver Stone, and it's certainly a number of models. And, you know, Oliver. And, anyway, so I go over to the people, and I'm like, listen, we're still eating. Would you mind, you know, putting out your cigars? And I remember the guy going, oh, rude! And I'm like, oh, you think that's rude? And I grabbed his cigar, and I just fucking put it out right in front of him. Right? Well, you thought I had a shot as child or something. He was so freaked out. And he started screaming in any way. I end up just leaving the restaurant, and I didn't wait for the police, you know.

1:44:16But I had a hard time shaking the affective... But generally, I don't have a hard time, and I shut it right off. You know, that's if it's some kind of negative character like that. Do you feel like you've been changed by any of the characters you've played? Well, thank plan Larry changed me. Because it was after plan Larry that I did the thing on the Golden Gate Bridge where I protested. We climbed up the Golden Gate Bridge to protest the logging of the ancient redwoods in Northern California. And I don't think I would have done that kind of shit. I got arrested for planting hemp seeds in Kentucky.

1:44:56All of that was influenced by plan Larry Flint. So you saw his courage? Yeah. And... It made me want to, you know... Take action. Take action. Wow. And now I think I'm just the fucking pussy, like an armchair activist. Speaking of which, tell me about your Saturday Night Live monologue. Oh, that. Well, you know... Well, you know, I'm going to write my own thing. I learned a long time ago. You better write your own thing. Otherwise, you get something on a Friday, you get an deliver on a Saturday. You may not love. So, you know, I was working on it, but then I was like, I got to figure out weave in this message.

1:45:42And did you do it in the rehearsal and you were able to get it through or did it change it all for the live? I had the thing written before I came, but it was long. Yeah. It was quite long. It's probably... Probably the first reading of it at the first reading in New York was maybe 12 minutes. And how long is it supposed to be like five or six? Yeah. You don't want it to be more than five minutes. Well, I got it down, you know, kept cutting stuff out. And they did ask me, you know, Jim, you know, the right -hand guy to learn. Come on, man. How's he going to help you? Well, it's not going to help me, but it's like...

1:46:30There's no other way to express it because if I'd expressed it in some kind of news, they'd just cut it out. You know what I mean? But to do it live, very hard to cut out. So, I felt like it was the right opportunity. I wanted to express how I thought it was bullshit. I didn't quite do it right. I should have finished it a little different because the thing was... It was the script that I kept dragging you out, talking about this script. And then I finally, I read the script and I'm like, you know, it's about these drug dealers who just insist that everybody takes their drugs or they can't leave their house or whatever.

1:47:12And what I should have said at the end, I forget how I ended it, but I should have said, although it's a great business model, I mean, who's going to buy that? Huh? Maybe Hollywood. You know, and even a year and a half ago, the movie I did called Fly Me to the Moon, right? Which was Scarlett Johansson and Channing Tatum. It's out now, by the way. It's a really great movie. Wonderful, really well done. So, I think it was the beginning of 2020. Still, every single person on that production was vaccinated. Literally whatever, 150 people, 200 people, except one. And then they said, you know, when I get my papers, they're like, and send us your vaccination thing card.

1:48:06So we know you, that, that, that, that, well, that's going to be hard because I wasn't vaccinated. And then they're like, they get pretty serious. They're like, okay, well then send us the reason for you're not being vaccinated. And I only put two words, personal choice. I still, to this day, wonder why didn't everybody have that out? You know, certainly Scarlett or Channing could have got away with it, but not any other person on that production couldn't have. They all had to be vaccinated. Every driver, it made me so upset. You know, I just felt it was wrong. What was the reaction in the room when you said it?

1:48:53Did people laugh? What was the reaction? When I got to the end. Yeah. Well, at the end, when I got to the end of that thing, I felt like people were kind of, they didn't know quite. Oh, no. But, you know, like it took a second. Yeah. And then the rest of the show didn't suffer except for the fact that that's all they talked about after the fact. And then I got a barrage of mainstream media, all saying kind of the same thing. It was just mumbling kind of incoherent model. Well, no, it was very, it was written out to the last detail. There's no mumbling, but they all say the same thing. Because that's how mainstream media is.

1:49:35Now, they all seem to have the same playbook, you know? Tell me about Kiss the Ground. I love Kiss the Ground. I think the regenerative farming is absolutely impaired. You know, this is another thing. Another pet peeve is, you know, these pesticides. Infectory farms. Yeah, insecticides. All these things that they're using constantly. Well, they're affecting the bee population. You know, like I wonder is when there's no more bees, is hunting going to be as valuable as gold? Yeah. Anyway, so regenerative farming, you know, I could go into the whole thing about that. And Leibig was the guy who started fertilizers.

1:50:30He like, he did this thing where he took some plant matter and burned it. There was three elements to it that then they were like started to develop chemical fertilizers. Right? And it started and then boom, it just spiraled until 10 years later, it was so omnipresent. And that he realized that he was wrong. That the soil needed to be nourished by natural humus, which is, you know, compost and stuff. And like things that, that living things should feed that soil, not these chemicals, that ultimately is detrimental. But by the time 10 years later, he tried to say something about it. It was like, he was drowned out by the forces that big.

1:51:20And I just thought it was interesting. His name was Leibig. Lie, big, big lie. Wow. Right? And that has affected this our country and the world, you know, through Monsanto and everybody else. Now these pesticides are so fricking huge and it's affecting the bee population. It's affecting so many things. It's in our bodies. So, how did I get off on this stand? No, but if you remember in our lifetime, DDT was sprayed as a pesticide and considered healthy. Yeah. You'd see commercials where people would be sprayed with DDT. Yeah. And then Rachel Carson wrote the book Silent Spring and she was vilified for that.

1:52:11Right. Right. Now there's no question about it. But yeah, I remember seeing children, sitting at lawn cheating sandwiches sprayed with DDT, saturated. Or children going behind one of those trucks with all the, they're on their bikes and then on the DDT just getting sprayed out of it. You know, after DDT became illegal in the United States, I was in Costa Rica. They were still spraying DDT. Wow. So that company was still making it. I think that was a Monsanto. Monsanto, I think, made DDT. They were still making it. I know, I get to be a whiny little bitch sometimes. These things drive me nuts. My daughters are like, why does this shit make you crazy?

1:53:03I'm like, I don't know. But it's the injustice of it.

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