MBA2354 Bonus Episode - Introducing Real Good Podcast Season 5

30:07So for the first time ever in their 30 something years, their honoree was an alumni of Prep for Prep. Wow. So before that, it was like JPMorgan and Chase and Michael Bloomberg. So here's this guy. His name's Kareem Cook. And the reason I'm telling you this is because like so many when he's telling his story, when he's doing his acceptance speech, I was like, that's what we talk about on the show. I know. I know this story. So he begins with a huge shout out to his mom, who he said, single mother, two kids, their next door neighbor gets murdered in Queens overnight. night she moves her family somehow across the city, finds another apartment because she doesn't want whoever did the murder to come back and try to kill the witnesses.

30:53Right. This is this is this kid in fifth grade. Right. But the mom being valiant, moving the kid across the city. Yeah. Then Central Park Five, the Central Park Exonerated happens. This is all in the 80s. Yeah. And 1980s. And and he says, and and my mom sat me, my brother and my three best friends down and said, as as young black men, you need to you need if this ever happens to you, you you memorize the badge number. You memorize the plate of that car. If anyone ever pulls you aside, you come to me. He said a week later, he and his friends got got pulled over by the police, weren't doing anything wrong.

31:34He listened to his mother. He said the next morning she was at the precinct talking about you. You will not do this to my son and his friends. Right. So just this powerhouse behind him. Yeah. Making sure that he never wasted any of the opportunity he was given when he went to this to this private school. And then he he's he runs this company called Nature Aid, which has been black owned since or I guess he's the chief marketing officer. Black owned since 2012. And at some point they pivoted and directed there. It's mostly like vegan. I think it's like vegan smoothies and supplements. They decided to direct their efforts toward underserved communities where there are a lot of cases of obesity, diabetes and heart disease.

32:24Yeah. So for him, that was black and brown communities. Yeah. He said he goes to the dream is to get into Costco. That's, I guess that's everybody's dream, right? If you're selling something like that. To get the product in a Costco. He has some kind of partner in Grant Hill. I know, yeah. You're going to know who that is, right? My husband had to tell me. He's an NBA player, right? Hall of Fame basketball player. Amazing college career at Duke, yes. Right, right. Okay, because this guy went to Duke. Okay, his name's Kareem Cook, by the way. I think Kareem Cook might have played basketball. Was he on the basketball team?

32:56I want to say. Probably, because he said he played basketball in high school. So they get access to the CEO of Costco. And the guy says, oh, well, I mean, we've been wanting to expand into diversity for a long time. This sounds great. Why haven't we done this before? We'll let you. He said to him, just let me start with eight stores. Let me get into eight stores. And he said, well, why haven't you come to me before? And the CEO, they said to the CEO, you have a bar of something like to some a company has to have like. Yeah. Is it sound right to say like 22 million, 250 million in sales to get into Costco?

33:43Does that sound right? It was something like that. It was some huge number. Some threshold that you have to demonstrate because so you can make sure you keep the supply chain and appropriately. Yeah. Yeah. And he says to some threshold. Because we're we don't have you haven't given us a chance because we don't meet that threshold. Right. Give us a chance. We'll meet the threshold. Right. And so, again, it was about it was it was the CEO of Costco to whom, by the way, he gave a huge shout out because they Costco ended up donating hundreds of thousands of dollars to this prep for prep charity. Oh, that's great.

34:14But it was it was, again, this notion of access. It was being seen and being chosen and being given a chance. Given the opportunity, that is the definition of access. What's the name of the product? It's called NatureAid. NatureAid. And and or Naturade. I don't know. N-A-T-U-R-A-D-E. Wait, here's the kicker, Greg. So then he says, as as we're funding this, you should be using a black owned bank. You should be using we should always be using black owned businesses as we grow this. And ecosystem. Yeah. Yeah. And by the way, he's gone from eight Costco stores to hundreds. And so he hooks him up with LISC.

34:53And I lean over to my husband and I'm like, I can't do it. It's Maurice Jones. We had Maurice. You interviewed Maurice. Yeah. That was season one. Yes. Yes. And wait, LISC. Do you remember what the acronym stands for for anyone who's listening? It's now I've put you on the spot. Local Institution Support Corporation. Ding, ding, ding. I'm just going to say. But local. I think it's local institutions. And support corporation. All of this one person story, you know, from childhood to to making a business dream come true by getting his company in Costco was just check, check, check all the things we talk about on this show.

35:35Being given the opportunity, having access to the CEO of Costco, number one, and then given the opportunity, because that's all we can all ask for is to have, you know, and that's what this work is all about. All anyone can promise you is to provide any quality of opportunity. What you do with that opportunity is up to you. And it sounds like they have an amazing and superior product that once in the store, as it performed, and so the business continues to grow and they continue to get more opportunities. So congratulations to them and shout out to them. But that is absolutely the definition of what access is all about.

36:12on the show over all these seasons i feel like access was i mean because u.s banks commit it's called access commitment right that's a program commitment yeah started in 2021 and some of the things i learned though are what access means like natasha reed rice access is housing yes right yes access is it's so much more than a bank giving money to somebody oh my gosh yeah it's uh You know, I've said this so many times. I honestly, I feel like what we talk about as our purpose as an organization of powering human potential and helping individuals and families fulfill their dreams and helping communities reach their full potential and be vibrant.

37:01And that is what we do. And that is our purpose. We just banking just happens to be the business and the vessel that we as an organization have chosen in order to deliver on that. But the reason U.S. Bank exists is to do all of those things, is to provide access, to help individuals and families meet their dreams. And like, that's what's so cool about it. And I think that's what really I hope has continued to come through for us. And that's certainly what the access commitment is all about. I talked, I mentioned before how much I continue to learn. And I was thinking about, I was thinking about moments like, do you remember when the WNBA commissioner, Kathy Engelbert, was telling us her moments of learning too.

37:56For example, that story about August of 2020 when Jacob Blake was killed. Yeah. And she had four games. She wanted the WNBA to play that night. Yeah. And she went into the bubble. Yeah. It was like, we're going to do this. Yeah. And one of the players said to her, Kathy, no, I have a six year old son. Yeah. I can't do that. Yeah. And, and Kathy had that moment where she was vulnerable enough on the show to talk about how, how she learned. Yeah. I had that recent, you know, somebody asked me recently, I do remember that story vividly and not as dramatic, but something I was asked the other day to talk about a moment, a moment I remember most about pride in Pride Month.

38:47and I said you know it actually just happened to me a couple of weeks ago where I used the wrong pronouns for someone and the person was graceful enough well first of all the minute I said it I realized it and I let the conversation because there were a few other people that were part of the conversation I pulled the person aside afterwards and I said hey did I just use the wrong pronouns for you. And they said, yes. I said, well, please tell me, you know, what they are and please forgive me. And we just had this lovely conversation that was filled with grace and compassion and empathy and all of that.

39:26And I just like those moments happen. And, you know, to the point you made about Kathy, like sometimes we're going to, we're not always going to do the right thing. We're not always going to make the right decision. We're not always going to say the right thing. And you and I talk about that a lot, but we have to give each other grace. And that only happens when there's an element of trust that happens between people. And we have to just continue to do more in all of our efforts to build those bridges. I feel like over and over you, you give me such good natured grace to learn stuff. As a white lady.

40:01Well, thanks. I don't, I, what have you learned? I so many things. I just your your your your natural curiosity, like it's made me more curious. Like people think because I'm the chief diversity officer, like I have all of these answers to all of this stuff and that I know everything about it. But no, like I'm always learning. Like I said, I use the wrong pronouns for somebody, for God's sakes. You know, so your curiosity, your your interest and preparation and the way that you approach these conversations. I've learned a lot about that. It's made me better. Oh, thank you. I really appreciate it.

40:38I think about the conversation with you and Houston White when both of y 'all taught me, I can't remember who explained it, but taught me about why the barbershop is such a special place. I mean, I know there are movies called Barbershop, right? Yeah. But I didn't get. Right. Yeah. But why? And and I believe I think it was also with Houston, a conversation about style and steez and what it meant. Like, but you connected it with dignity and status. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I had never thought about why the sneakers should be so clean or the hair should be so tight or what barbershops meant.

41:25Yeah. And to sort of I just I guess I just want to say I'm grateful for that. You know, I don't mean to sound like a like a, you know, white anthropologist, but but like it's all when you when you just have the space and the permission, I guess is what I'm saying. Right. These conversations are this permission for me to be curious in a way where I don't feel like I will be looked at with skepticism or eye rolls. Oh, well, thank you for saying that. And, you know, I've always felt that. I don't have an expectation or we shouldn't have expectations on each of each other that we always understand, but we should have an expectation that you want to.

42:07Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah. And the people who are willing to help you understand, sometimes you can get weary. Yeah. People can get weary of explaining this is how it feels for us and this is how it works. Yeah, no, that's very true. That's generosity to be willing to explain to the people who are curious. Yeah, I've always felt like no matter how weary that I. We've talked about this on the show. I talked about the easy burden. Andrew Young, right? Easy burden, like compared to the sacrifice that others had to make. Like, I don't want to hear that you're tired. Like, yeah, we're all tired.

42:46Yes, I get tired, but I'm not you're not going to hear me on here talking about, oh, my God, I'm so tired. I'm so weary. Like, do you realize what the people who did the work to allow me to sit here went through? Like, this is an easy burden for me. Like, that's what that's what Jay Bailey said. So he runs Rice. The Rice, the Russell Innovation Center for Entrepreneurships. Thank you. You got it. In Atlanta. And he talks about how Mr. Russell. Yeah, Herman Russell, Herman J. Russell. In the 60s, I think. 60s, one of the first, certainly for a period of time, Herman Russell construction was the largest black home business in this country for like a really, really long time.

43:35And, you know, one of the first black millionaire philanthropists, just an icon in the black community and just a pillar in our community on the business side. And he endows the Russell Center Rice. And now it's the biggest, literally, like in terms of space, the biggest space for black entrepreneurs on earth. The largest incubator for black entrepreneurship in the world. And he is the one who who gave that beautiful quotation of folks who are planting seeds to grow trees under whose shade we will not sit. Yes. And and I remember in that conversation, that's when you talked about Easy Burden and Andrew Young.

44:20Yeah. Yeah. I'm so proud of Jay and that work. And but that that's truly how I feel about it. Jay was the person who said, I'll never forget it. He said, you're talking about race. You can throw in class for free. I've thought about that so many times. Yeah. He had some, he had some real. Yeah. He still owes us some boxes of chips. Do you remember that? Yeah. He was supposed to get us chips. I should have asked him about that. We're going to follow up on that. I am going to follow up with him on that. Do you have, do you have the stamina for one more kind of topic? I'm good. Okay. So, so here's something I, I've been watching.

44:56I need to ask you about for a long time, because when I hear people talk about this and then I recently read this article that was in The Atlantic. What is the title of it? It's worth saying the title. Where is it?

45:14OK, it's this article by the writer Connor Friedersdorf called The DEI Industry Needs to Check Its Privilege. subtitle, the worst of the industry is expensive and runs from useless to counterproductive. It's a very nuanced article. I found it very interesting. And so what he's talking about, it's not the kind of commitment that U.S. Bank does. It doesn't sound to me like the kind of work you do. He talks about this this multi-billion dollar industry that popped up in that kind of never, never again fervor after George Floyd was was murdered. Yes. And he suggests that the billions of dollars that corporate America has spent to train, I'm using air quotes, its employees in whatever diversity training means or sensitivity training.

46:16Yeah. He says, I think he's he don't just think it's right here. He uses the word obscene to say it is obscene when that money would probably be better spent helping poor people. Yeah. And so as as the chief diversity officer of U.S. Bank. Yeah, I love this. What what are these training programs like? What do you think of them? What are they doing wrong? Because I will tell you that as a parent at one of my children's schools in 2020, 2021 and 2022, they had they created a program that is mandatory anti-racist parental training. Mandatory anti-racist parent training. Yep. And for the first two years of it, it was entirely on Zoom.

47:09And they said that we had to have our cameras on. So you just see hundreds of people coming in on Zoom. And this is New York City. So I'm scrolling through and I'm like, there's a famous person. How many Emmys are in the back of that famous person? Like, I'm sorry, but I am going to scroll through and be like, who's on this with me? We're just human. Of course, of course. And that sounds really. So this is the thing. Mandatory compliance. I what do they talk to me about your thought about these kind of programs? Because it's not what you're doing. I do. I do feel that, first of all, I've never, even as the chief diversity officer, like nobody wants to go to a diversity training.

47:56I'm talking there were slideshows about microaggressions. Yeah, like nobody wants to do that. Like it's I think the way that we've approached it, certainly with our employees, is to invite people into conversations to come learn with me, is to come learn with us. Like that's a very different invitation than than saying you've got to attend diversity training. Now, it's not to suggest we don't have as part of our orientation, as part of our core curriculum, we do have mandatory diversity trainings, unconscious bias, cultural identity, cultural identity, things that we think are like basic knowledge, skill sets that any leader coming into the bank should come because it's one of our core values.

48:41We draw strength from diversity. Like what I love about that is the phrase itself would suggest like this is one of our signature strengths as an organization. And so we need to make sure that everybody understands that and has a sense of how important this is to us as an organization. So you're going to take these two mandatory courses. Beyond that, though, I think the conversations of diversity have to be tied to what do we expect of leaders in this organization? And what we expect from leaders of this organization is that they will have they will they will lead high performing, diverse teams that help meet the needs of our customers in the communities where we live and live, work and play.

49:21And therefore, we have expectations around inclusion that are tied to performance reviews. And so just like financial performance, you actually have to have people leader goals that are tied to creating an inclusive environment, because it's not just what you do. It's how you go about performing your job that separates the good leaders from the bad leaders, that separates leaders who underperform from leaders that perform. And we know that leaders that outperform everybody else have an inclusive mindset. They have inclusive teams. They have women in leadership. They have people of color in leadership.

50:00Those are the leaders who perform the best. But if you can't measure that, if you can't set that as an expectation that actually is in the system where people actually have to put their people leader goals in, they actually have goals, have to have goals around inclusion in the organization. So I think it's more about how do you make it part of an expectation around the business outcomes we're trying to achieve versus making it some sort of compliance, mandatory. take this anti-racist course, because like, who are we to dictate what you should think about? Now, there's nobody that's going to argue racism is bad.

50:36Like, that's not what I think the debate is about. But it's what do you truly believe as an organization that leadership looks like and how you want your organizational culture to be? An organizational culture where everybody can be at their best requires that there be some sort of expectation for leaders. And I think that's more the training. I think there's a level of accountability that has to come with that. That's connected to how you evaluate, how you reward leadership and performance in your organization. And it's also, at least from what I've learned about the work you do, and y 'all do, the bank as a whole, it's not just within the organization.

51:15It's about demonstrating this is what we value and here's where we commit with access, with funds, with mentorship. Yes. It's outside, like it's truly, it's putting the money, it's putting your money where your mouth is. It is. And it's serving all of your stakeholders. It's not only, you know, how you want your employees, your employee and your workforce to look in, but it's also how you want to serve a diverse marketplace. It's these, the markets and the customers that we serve demand it. Like they demand that there be representation. They demand that the products and services that you provide meet their needs and meet their needs from their lived experience and that you see them and you understand them.

52:02And that requires for you to have a diverse workforce. That's why you want diversity is because they're just serving a diverse market. So there's no separation between what this work of DEI is or should be and how it's connected to the actual business goals. Like that's where I think the industry as a whole has fallen short is it became strictly this exercise in human capital management. And we've lost sight of the fact that this is about how we serve customers, how we serve communities, and most importantly, how we serve employees in that equation. Do people ever dare when they find out your title or what you do, did they dare to to challenge and say, oh, that diversity stuff?

52:50Oh, every day. Really? Oh, every day. Like I've I've I've gotten notes, you know, mostly anonymously and in some ways. But, you know, I've gotten notes from people, you know, you're ruining the company. Like this is not the, you know, the company that I joined 30 years ago. And, you know, yeah. Wow. Yeah. Do you respond? Not to stuff like that. Like that. Like I don't, you know, I don't live my life in the comment section. Yeah. You know, like I don't read, I don't do the comments. Like I do. I just don't. But I have, I'll tell you where I have found the most rewarding part of my work is actually having those conversations with people who do disagree with me.

53:38Like who does who who come into it with a lot of skepticism about who this DEI work is for? And, you know, is it really for me? I don't see myself in the work. And I don't have unconscious bias. That's a good line. I don't see color. Right. Like that one. Like, you know, having I've had so many conversations with some of those people and I've always found those conversations to be incredibly rewarding. And in the process, I think we both have learned a lot. And people have said to me afterwards, like, I see this completely differently after having talked to you. Like, I just I really feel so much better.

54:19And the fact that you took the time to, like, call me, you know, after I sent you that email and I see it differently and I'm going to be more open about this and I'm going to think differently about it. And that's where I get the most reward is in those conversations. And honestly, I've learned something in that process, too. That's that's grace as well. Yeah, I have to do this job. I have a white kid and there's a program at his school that invites any any children who identify as people of color. So that includes anyone who's non-white to to join. And it started when he was like seven. And he came to me and he said, Mom, all these all these boys got to leave and go have pizza and play games in the middle of the day.

55:01and um and i and you know they're part of i think the group's called jama and um and he said i don't i don't want to i'm not complaining it's just nobody explained it to us yeah and and in fact one of the kids he saw leave the room who identifies as a person of color my son thought was white and it turns out his i think his the kid's grandfather is egyptian okay wow fine like Anybody can go. And we even said to our son, like some people, some maybe you're you're you're Jewish. Right. My husband's like whatever. If you want to go. But it wasn't explained to kids. And that would be and I went to the officer and I was like, I'm not complaining.

55:45Like my kids have black cousins. They they get that the world can treat people differently. They get they don't have the lived experience of someone else. wouldn't it be interesting to have a conversation with all the school to say yes this is the invitation to anyone who wants to take it and this is why sometimes certain students who identify a certain way go into a different space they and i said i don't need to script you you know it better than i right but shouldn't it start with a conversation that includes everybody 100 because i didn't want to tell my at that point white seven-year-old like well you you can't like it's it's racist to question why they're going out to have, he's a kid.

56:25He just sees his friends. They don't have to do math. They get to have pizza and play games because the grandfather's Egyptian. Yeah. Right. But, but, but the point is what you just said, responding to the emails, having, having just an open conversation that comes from curiosity. It's, it's, it's, it's cool. And I find it really refreshing when, when people disagree or question or are skeptical about what this is, because it does open the door for dialogue. and that's how we'll get to progress. I would much rather have that. I don't know if I ever told you the story. When I first took this job, really quick story.

57:00When I first took this job, I was doing this little road show and, you know, I had my bright, new, shiny DEI strategy. I had my little PowerPoint decks and I would go around and talk to like various teams across the organization. I had this one team ask me to come and speak and it was a smaller group. It was a smaller team. It was like, you know, less than 20 people. And I remember I'm doing the DEI presentation and there's this one, you know, middle aged white man in the back of the room, you know, with his arms crossed and you could just tell the whole time, like he was just not having it. No, he's not feeling it.

57:34Right. And like I could sense it the whole time. And finally, when I was done, you know, he mustered the courage to sort of raise his hand and say, you know, hey, I just have a question. Like, when when when will we have a white male employee resource group? And I remember in that moment, like the whole room just sort of gasped. Like, I can't believe, you know, whatever. You said it. Yeah. Now I'm dying to know what you said. Really just do. Yeah. And I said, well, you know, I just shared with you a whole bunch of data about the makeup of the organization and where I believe we have disparities in representation.

58:18And from what I can see in the data, but you tell me if you see something differently, we don't have a problem with representation of white males at any level of this organization. And so I'd love to know, like, what you feel is different about your experience that might need me to consider. And like, why would we need to do that when there's no shortage of representation in the organization? And quite honestly, you know, my my my my actions going forward will be driven by letting the data help inform where we make the changes. And until I see data that suggests that there's something about a lack of white representation, I don't feel like we would need to do that.

59:01And he just kind of sat back. And from that point forward, like I would see him every now and then in the hallway or just walking somewhere. And he would always acknowledge me like and he would like purposefully I could tell he felt seen and heard in the moment, like whether he liked the response or not. like he felt safe enough, which was the other part of my response. I said, first of all, I just want to applaud you because I think it's an important question. And the fact that you felt safe enough to ask that question, you know, what I want you to understand is the safety that you felt in that answering that question is what most people of color and women don't feel like that's the privilege.

59:44Like that wants you to sit with that for a minute. And from that point on, he kind of like he just was would go out of his way, you know, to sort of come up to me and say, yeah, like I I learned something in that moment. And thanks for giving me the respect in the way that you answered the question, too. So that was just sort of a cool moment for me. Like, I always enjoy those challenges because there are opportunities for me to educate, but also in the process, learn something about myself as well. you just used the word privilege and one of the other things i've learned on this show people define privilege lots of different ways yeah but i think a theme that comes up is privilege is when you can fail and have a second chance yeah and so many people we have talked to have said i'm i'm i'm a lot of times it's i'm the black person or i'm the black woman i can't fail like the the responsibility and the burden of that right that was one of the things we talked to Jay Bailey about because he talks about the power to fly and the power to fail and vulnerability.

1:00:47Yeah. Who else did that come out with? That came out a lot, I think, with I can't remember the season or where it was, but we talked about that also as part of the burden. Like if you're the only one, you feel uniquely responsible that you must succeed. And not only must you succeed, but you must do it for everybody, for everybody, because if you fail, there won't be another one who gets that opportunity. Because they'll go, see, I told you they weren't qualified. I told you that she wasn't ready. They got that job because they only got the job because, so we can't hire another person in that role.

1:01:19And so it's a heavy burden to carry, but it's one that you just sort of accept comes with it. What are you excited about for the season? I'm excited about the translator documentary. That's me snapping. I'm excited about this story of translators. I'm excited about the work we're going to do in the Hispanic community this year. I'm excited to talk to Jorge from the Smithsonian Museum of Latin American. I'm excited about the Latino Leadership Institute and talking with Joelle. Claudia Romos Edelman from We Are All Human. Claudia is going to be really fun. Claudia is the queen of data. So she's going to spend a lot of time just talking about and telling the story through data.

1:02:17So she's just an incredible, incredible leader. We have Eric Tota. Eric Tota from Meta will be incredibly exciting to talk about the world of technology and how being an executive in that space and being an executive of color. and how do you show up in that world and some of the stereotypes that go along with that. So Eric will be great to talk to. But we've got a great lineup this year. We've got a great mix of folks, some still to be announced. But this notion of leaning into some of these other cultures who make up this beautiful, as I talk about a lot, this beautiful quilt that I think we're weaving together, not only in our work, but this beautiful quilt that is our country.

1:03:04And I think through the show and through this podcast, I think we're we are weaving this beautiful tapestry, the story that we're telling. If you listen to all of the seasons and all of the work, you see this beautiful tapestry coming together. It's amazing that like we never stop learning. Like I get excited for every single person we're going to talk to. Me too. Me too. And as the show has evolved, our our friendship is like such a gift to me. That's been such a bonus to me. I know. Getting to know you and your spirit and just you're just pure joy. And you just make this so much fun for me. And I hope for, you know, for everybody for who listens and for our organization, you've just been such a amazing friend, an amazing partner.

1:03:53But gosh, I feel like, you know, like we've known I feel like we've known each other for forever. I know. And but it's been an honor. It has been an honor and a joy just to do this with you every single time. So thank you. Thank you, Greg. That's how I feel. It's a gift. And thank you for your grace. And my husband told me before I came here today, make sure you give Greg a hug from me. So you get hugs from all of us. The whole fam right back at you guys. Thank you.

1:04:32Thank you.