I Asked a Conservative: What Does the New Right Really Stand For?

24:01It seems to me that there are five or six justices ready to overturn that president or at least deal a pretty heavy blow against it. We'll see. This is Flutter v. Trump, right? That's exactly right. Exactly right. Exactly right. And then the other kind of more culture worry case I think a lot of folks are paying attention to is the birthright citizenship case, which if I had to make an objective prediction, I do not think is going to cash out the way the most conservatives hope it does. Unfortunately, from my bad point, I've actually been very outspoken this issue for over a decade now, but I don't currently see the votes there for the outcome that I think most conservatives want.

24:36You think it'll go, what, 5-4, that we're going to keep it in place? Something like that? I think it could be even more lopsided than that, actually. I think that there are likely two solid votes for Trump's view when it comes to Clarence Thomas-Samolito. I think any additional vote than that is a mild stretch. I could potentially see three, maybe four. But honestly, I would not be shocked if it's seven, Tim. And then tariffs. We're also waiting on the decision on the big tariffs case, which I guess could come any day now. So actually, before we, I want to stay with something that you just talked about, which is sort of foreign policy.

25:13Because one of the things that I'm sort of having a hard time, like trying to understand, you know, I did on the show a couple of weeks ago, I debated myself on the idea of going to war in Venezuela. Because, I mean, to me, I think any sort of military action there, to me, seems insane. But I, you know, I sort of understand the geopolitical, you know, machinations in place. But I guess my question to you is, if Trump came in saying no new wars, America first, we are not doing battle overseas for oil or for anything else. And now he's, in addition to bombing these boats off the coast of Venezuela, now blockading Venezuelan oil, it certainly seems like we're prepared for military intervention in Venezuela.

25:55Well, we've also got a you know, he did. He struck Nigeria, ISIS cells in Nigeria on Christmas Day. So you've got sort of this like humanitarian, you know, Samantha Power esque doctrine. He's almost abiding by there. How does that jive with the broader sort of like America first, you know. Movement. Yeah, great question. So I'll take Nigeria first. I actually was also talking about that on my show today as well. So, look, the Nigeria thing is fascinating because you're right. This is not necessarily a strategic national interest move. This very much does, to your credit, seem like Samantha Power, responsibility to protect Gaddafi, Libya, 20, 2011 style intervention.

26:36I think if I had to guess, and I'm not sourcing this, it's just my reading situation, there was a speech a few months or maybe a month ago or so where Donald Trump warned Boko Haram, warned ISIS, warned the Nigerian leaders very clearly stop this or else we're going to protect the Christians there. I think that he is thinking of himself somewhat viscerally as a defender of Christendom, as a defender of Western civilization. Yeah, Trump. Something along those lines. Now, admittedly, it's a very different rationale than kind of the hardheaded, sober nationalist realism that I and many others have often promoted over the past 10, 15 years when I'm not there.

27:12But it more or less fits into this Western hemispheric dominance, defending Christian civilization mentality, which is definitely behind a lot of Donald Trump's supporters. So it's not a perfect reconciliation. There's definitely still some tensions there. But that's the best that I can do of possibly reconciling that. And, you know, I mean, look, I mean, Tucker Carlson's history, honest notwithstanding, you know, don't discount the sheer number of Republican voters who just love hitting Islamic fundamentalist radicals. I mean, that's still that's still a fundamentally popular thing in the eyes of the Republican Party's voting base.

27:45It just is. As far as Venezuela, you know, I did not have the one on my bingo card, to be honest with you. I definitely did not see this months long standoff really anywhere in the offing whatsoever. However, so two things can be true at once. On the one hand, it's definitely true that Trump's foreign policy doctrine is heavily inclined against extended military intervention. It's certainly inclined against U.S. imposed regime change, right? Because there's such a thing as tactical strikes. That's kind of a strike on Iran. Back at you, there's a difference between tactical precision strikes versus regime change.

28:18On the other. We are. Isn't he trying to get Maduro out? Isn't that the endgame here? Correct. But on the other hand, what I was going to say was it should be self-evident. It should be obvious that if you are a nation state, there are some regimes that you like. You think that their actions bolster your national interests. And then there are some regimes that you don't like. You think that there are some that hinder your national interests there. We could take a very obvious dichotomy in the Indo-Pacific. China, under Xi Jinping, undermines America's interests in virtually every way. Japan, on the other hand, when they are emboldened, in my opinion, at least, I think Japan is a good ally.

28:52I mean, when Japan acts against China, they're a very good ally of the United States. So that's just a very clear example, right? That doesn't mean that they want to impose regime change in China, but we might kind of toughen sanctions, tariffs. There's all sorts of various other tools of economic and diplomatic statecraft to try to twist the rulers there, try to turn the screws. That's more or less how I read the situation in Venezuela. I do think that the Trump administration clearly prefers, strongly prefers, that Maduro not be in power. it's far from obvious to me that they are actually willing to send the 101st airborne parachuting into Barakas to actually topple him.

29:28This is a very aggressive campaign. Again, frankly, it's far more aggressive than I think I or any others would have anticipated. I've defended the legal rationale of the narco-terrorist strikes and Article 2 constitutional grounds. But the whole sprawling thing, the seizing of the tankers, the blockade, it's pretty intense. I think it's coming from this doctrinal standpoint of trying to reassert the Monroe Doctrine, trying to go for real kind of Western hemispheric dominance there. But it is more aggressive than I think we thought would be. At the same time, as I said, I don't think you'll actually get to the point of troops on the ground, because that certainly is not what Trump's voters voted for either.

30:03Yeah. It seems to me he's almost, I mean, I guess the risk, and he is nothing if not a risk taker, is that he paints himself into this box where he either Maduro's got, either he has to back down or Maduro does. And it's like this game of chicken. But yeah, I mean, we'll see. I think that this obviously will be one of the one of the big foreign policy stories playing on the new year. Back to back to this year, who in your estimation sort of taking another turn here were the biggest political winner, winners and losers on the right? So I'll give you mine on the for the left. I think the you know, the biggest winner of the left this year, I think, is a no brainer.

30:36around Mamdani. I think the biggest loser, Andrew Cuomo. I mean, I don't know how much closely you follow New York politics, but Andrew Cuomo put on one of the most pathetic campaigns for mayor here of anything I've ever seen. I mean, it looked like he just didn't want to be there. And Mamdani wiped the floor with him. So I think that those are my takes for the winners and losers on the left. Give me your winners and losers of the right. Sure. So my winner is probably Marco Rubio. I think that Marco Rubio has done that was going to be mine. I think that he's been nothing short of exceptional. I think that he is absolutely crushing it in this role.

31:13He's a total natural for it. You know, I live in Florida. Rubio kind of came to political prominence here in Florida. It's been well known for a long time that Rubio cares a tremendous amount about foreign policy. He cares about America's relations with the rest of the world there. I think he was coveting secretary of state, frankly, from a very early political age. and he's been phenomenal. I mean, the way that he articulates his points, the various leadership that he has exuded, his doctrines, I think that he's frankly surpassed my expectations. And if he decides to run in 2020, I think that he'll be a very formidable candidate.

31:45Look, the loser on the right, I mean, look, it's hard not to go back to Charlie. I mean, you mentioned Charlie. Charlie was a friend of mine. You know, Carla, when I first took over the opinion editor reigns of Newsweek, Charlie was one of the conservative columnists that I inherited actually. That's actually how I first got to know him. got to know Andrew Colvett, his executive producer and so forth there. He wrote a bunch for us. Oh, yeah. Charlie has a prolific byline for Newsweek. I personally edited many of those columns, you know, in the early days of my own tenure at Newsweek. I'm not going to say that the loser is my friend who got assassinated, but I will say that the loser more collectively, I think, are conservative or conservative curious college students who lost probably their single greatest champion, kind of going from campus to campus, trying to challenge prevailing orthodoxies there.

32:31It's somewhat of an open question as to what exactly the Turning Point USA college campus apparatus looks like going forward. But Charlie was very much one of a kind in terms of his not just being well-read, but his willingness to engage in genuine good faith debate. And that's a very, very, very difficult thing to actually spend the time, like real time, debating one-on-one students there in upbeat, amicable fashion. that's a really really rare thing and the tragedy of course that our culture could use a heck of a lot more uh not less than that but a lot more of it no i completely agree and i you know when when when he was killed i remember you know i had a very visceral reaction i think everybody did really you know no matter what your politics are it was just such a horrific moment in this country's history um but you know i had so i had a very visceral reaction and i and i wrote in the newsletter uh that week and did some videos that week about how like because you know we have i I have a lot of liberal readers and viewers, and I was trying to make the point to them that you may not have agreed with this guy.

33:32You may have even found him deplorable or whatever word you want to use. But you're not going to like what fills the void without him. To your point, he was out there pounding the pavement, talking to people and having good faith debates. And people like Nick Fuentes aren't doing that. They're broadcasting from their parents' basement and being anti-Semites and racists out in the open. And, you know, I think any political movement needs somebody like Charlie Kirk who is out there, you know, fighting the good fight for their people. Right. Amen. Yeah. OK, good, good, good answer on the winners and losers.

34:08I completely agree with Rubio. He is a one thing that he does really well is he's able to sort of he doesn't get you know, he doesn't let himself get in the mix with like the daily Trump, this Trump scandal or like outrage of the day. Like he's I mean, I guess part of that is just by virtue of him being secretary of state, but he does a very good job of sort of floating above it. So still being, you know, obviously a core member of Trump's inner circle and, you know, fighting for his boss. But he doesn't come across as a partisan the way that I think that somebody like Vance does. Anyway, I just agree.

34:39And I think that he's been even though I don't agree with much of his politics, I think he's been extremely effective. OK, jumping forward, 2028, which is coming sooner than we think it is, believe it or not. But as a conservative, who do you I want to ask you who you most and least want to see leading the Democratic ticket in twenty twenty eight? You know, it's not a question I've given a whole lot of thought to, to be very honest with you. That's my my my honest answer, just because it is so long away. And to be honest with you, Carlo, these days I find myself oftentimes more preoccupied with trying to clean up my own side of the debate than with worrying about about with who Democrats will nominate three years from now.

35:18But but, you know, look, having said that, I think Gavin Newsom is probably the most formidable. I don't think he's been a particularly good governor in California. I mean, he's overseen the first population egress in California since California was admitted as a state. All sorts of other data that I could spit off there. But Gavin Newsom is extremely well-spoken. He's extremely articulate. He's literally out of Hollywood central casting for being president of the United States. I mean, he looks the part. He talks the part there. He's the leader of the largest state in the country. the the the fundraiser the donors would get behind him there i think that he's definitely a formidable candidate uh by the way so is josh shapiro um i mean if democrats can can get over their their own jewish problem i guess both sides have something a jewish problem these days um but josh shapiro obviously comes from a swing state penn pennsylvania there someone who is clearly smart clearly well-spoken as well i has a more moderate track record i guess than newsom is he a moderate i don't know i guess regional minds can vary but he's definitely more moderate more centrist than Newsom, but really Pennsylvania.

36:18I mean, Pennsylvania is at this point, American politics, I would argue is probably the single most important swing state in the whole country. And having having having the governor of that state be your nominee is really, really, really something that I think Republicans would frankly be quite, quite, quite fearful of. As far as who I least fear, look, I mean, you know, one of these like young kind of far left types, right? I mean, like, you know, AOC, Jasmine Crockett, someone like that, you know, would not make me sweat particularly much. Having said that, it's not out of the realm of possibility that someone like that could be your next president.

36:54I mean, if things really go south. I mean, to be clear, I'm not predicting that. I'm not saying that they will. But if, God forbid, there's like a terrible recession, there's war with China, I mean, who the heck knows? I mean, the point is, it's just so long away that it's not out of the realm of possibility that someone like that could actually win. But as a general rule, those are kind of Democrats who scare me, please. Yeah, that makes sense. I think so. I have sort of a similar take on. So I think Newsom would be very bad general general election candidate for the reasons you mentioned. Just, you know, have the millstone of running the most dysfunctional state in the country is a big one.

37:28Right. That he would have to carry with them. And I love California. But I mean, I don't think anybody would disagree. That's a hot mess. um shapiro it's hard for me to imagine him uh making it through a primary for the reasons that you notice that you noted but i think that he would be i think he would probably crush anybody in a general election i mean again who knows it's still early but you know again the the he's got 70 approval rating something like that in a very purple important swing state um another one of his problems is that he has virtually no support among the black community uh at least not yet And it's going to be very hard to win Democratic primary without the support of black voters.

38:10You mentioned him a little while ago, but I know you're a Florida resident. Talk to me about Ron DeSantis, because I realize he's term limited now and he's a lame duck. And so he sort of like loses a bit of his mojo just by virtue of that. But he really hasn't been out there as much as I sort of thought he would over the last year. He's taking out this very interesting anti-AI position, the sort of like populist anti-AI position that I think is very smart. He's intuiting, I think, a backlash that is brewing that we've been talking about here on the show for a while. Do you think he runs in 2028?

38:43What's his what's his game plan? First of all, let me say that I'm an I'm an unambiguous fan of Ron Asante. In fact, he's one of the big reasons that I moved to Florida and still live here. I've met him a number of times. I publicly support his presidential campaign. is obviously very ill-fated campaign. But I think... Smart guy. He's whip-smart. I mean, he does the reading. I mean, he does not rely on his staffers to read him the briefs. He really engages. I mean, during COVID, folks could certainly disagree with his conclusions, but he was literally the one reading these medical studies, like footnote for footnote.

39:18I mean, he was doing that in the wee hours of the morning. I mean, he is sharp, and he knows what he's doing. Again, whether you agree with it or not, This man fundamentally knows his vision and knows his worldview. Is Ron going to give it another shot in 2028? I really have no idea. It's not something that I've ever kind of discussed with him or his inner political circle there. Obviously, his bid did not go particularly well the last time around. Look, I mean, DeSantis has shattered Florida records when it comes to statewide margins of victories. I mean, won by almost 20 points in 2022. That clearly does not translate to the national level.

39:54He was not particularly effective or charismatic on the debate stage. He let Trump in various ways belittle him from his true social fee as opposed to being on the debate stage itself there. I think it's possible that he gives another shot in 2028. Probably not if Marco Rubio runs. It's simply just not enough room for two high profile Floridians with a similar ish brand of politics. I just don't see that happening. I think Rubio basically has the right of first refusal at this point there as to the lead challenger to J.D. Vance. If someone's going to challenge JD, I think that Rubio is probably the, you know, people expect them to be the logical person to do it.

40:29If Rubio decides to pass on that, then it's possible that DeSantis gets in. The rumors are certainly swirling that Ted Cruz might get in as well. I've heard that too. I'm not sure that's going to be effective. I said that I've known Ted for a very long time. I actually ghost wrote his book in 2020. So I wish him nothing the best. I'm not sure that's going to be a particularly effective thing for the next step of his career there. But I think that DeSantis, if I had to guess there, is basically in wait and seek in 2028, according to what Marco Rubio first decides. If I were advising Ron DeSantis, what I would personally tell him to do after he's term limited come January 2027 is I would say, dude, just go cash out.

41:08You know, get some private equity, you know, fancy high paying C-suite thing. You know, before DeSantis wrote his book, which is on my bookcase behind me. So the book came out before he launched the presidential bid. So the book came out, I guess, was February 2023, memory serves. there. The book like quadrupled his net worth. But prior to that, his net worth was shockingly modest for someone of his age. I remember reading that. Right. Yeah. It was literally like less than 400 ,000 for the 40 something year old governor. Again, that's changed because the book. But if I were encouraging him, I would literally say, you know, you've been in politics for a long time.

41:44Go earn some money. Go get paid, baby. Go, go get paid. I mean, there's there's really nothing wrong with that. I mean, at least for a few years, you know, mull your options, see what plays out there. But again, if Ruby decides to pass there, I think it's not inconceivable that DeSantis gets him. DeSantis is young too. I mean, he's what, 50-ish? So he's got time. Although I guess you could say, you know, you either have time or you don't, right? Chris Christie is the great example. Like he waited too long and then he lost his moment. Before we go, I do want to ask you about a story that's been in the news a lot here at the end of the year, which is this massive sort of years-long scheme of Medicaid fraud that has been committed by members of the Somali diaspora in Minneapolis.

42:26The story has really blown open recently, partially due to some really good reporting done by Chris Ruffo at the Manhattan Institute. There's been some conservative influencers who have gone to Minneapolis and stirred some outrage with their reporting. But this is not one, you know, again, I was writing in the newsletter to say, like, Like this is Democrats need to pay attention to the story. This is one of those the way that it works. And, you know, this just as I do working in this business is, you know, a story like this gets the right gets it. The right wing media gets its hooks in it. So the dominant mainstream media reflexively believes it to be a non-story because the right is fixated on it.

43:05It happens. This happens the other way, too. Right. But I think this is one of the big problems in our sort of like media ecosystem is that, you know, you can't just look at a story as like this should be an outrage to to to all Americans. Right. These aren't even allegations. I mean, people have been convicted. They've they've pled guilty to bilking federal taxpayers for money that in some cases has reportedly gone to Al-Shabaab, the Sunni Islamic group in that runs part of Somalia. Even putting that aside, just the fact that, you know, millions, potentially billions of taxpayer dollars were funneled into these fraudulent Medicaid services, daycare centers, et cetera.

43:41This is a big it's a big deal. Right. And I think that, you know, liberals need to pay attention to this stuff, because if you're going to be for a generous welfare state, you have to crack down like crazy. You have to be merciless about prosecuting things like welfare fraud, because if you don't normie voters, people who aren't, you know, totally in on the left or the right, they just look at it and they say, well, why why do I want to be a bigger social safety net if my tax dollars are just going to be stolen? Right. I mean, what do you what's your take on the story? Yeah, no, I've been hitting this story very hard for months now.

44:15I, you know, basically since Chris Rufo broke it. I mean, Chris does amazing work, by the way. You mentioned him. Yeah, we published not better, too, by Chris. I think even before he joined MI, this was probably in COVID era, Black Lives Matter 2020. But Chris is an amazing activist and really did amazing work generating the story there. So, Carl, as you're speaking, I was pulling up this tweet from Kash Patel over the weekend, and he was talking about just one element of this story. So the story has a lot of moving parts there, but just this one particular element, the feeding our future network fraud, which is part of this health care fraud.

44:49But this one case per the FBI led to 78 indictments and 57 convictions. So it's a pretty high, you know, as a lawyer, it's a pretty high conviction rate based on the indictments there. So there are a lot of people that have been found by courts of law to be very guilty. And, you know, you mentioned billions of dollars. I saw a tweet just earlier today. someone kind of snarkily pointed out that the apparent billions of dollars that have been defrauded by Minnesotans is actually a greater number, whatever it's worth. It might not be worth anything, but it's a greater number than the loss that Neiman Brothers reported in 2008 that triggered the entire financial recession.

45:27So it kind of puts into context that this is like, this is not a small amount of money we're talking. This is real money. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Oh, go ahead. Sorry. No, no, no. Go ahead. I would say, I mean, You know, to me, one of my questions is what what what did Tim Walz, you know, Keith Ellison, any other power brokers there in Minnesota, Flanagan, the lieutenant governor? I mean, what did they know? When do they know it? And, you know, Scott Besson, the Treasury Secretary, is currently investigating some of this. We'll see if it leads to possible indictments, prosecutions of their own there.

45:58Another another very interesting question is what did Kamala Harris's vetting team know? When do they know it? Because Tim Walz is kind of plucked out of relative ish obscurity to be the running mate for Kamala Harris. I mean, one of two things. And this has been going on for years. This didn't just happen like yesterday. Right. Exactly. So one of two things is true. On the one hand, maybe Kamala Harris's vetting team just totally missed this, which is bad. On the other hand, maybe she saw it and they said it's not a big deal, which is probably even worse. So I think that there are very relevant questions, especially as Kamala, you know, molds a possible 2028 comeback tour.

46:31And I think these are some very relevant questions that people should be asking as well. I'm surprised Kamala Harris wasn't your answer for a Democrat who least keeps you up at night in 2028. No, she's a very fine answer to that question. Very good answer. Yeah. And I think she is going to run. It certainly seems like it, which God, it's crazy to me. But OK, I want to do a quick lightning round before we go. So I'm going to if this is cool with you, I'm going to name off some members of Donald Trump's cabinet. And I want you to just tell me the first words or phrases that pop into your head. I think we can have a larger discussion.

47:05I think that, you know, I'm not a Trump supporter, but I think that he's got some people in there who are obviously very smart. People like Marco Rubio. I think he's got a lot of slackers. I think he's got a lot of people who are not doing work that is helping him or helping the country. But I'm curious your thoughts. So are you ready for the lightning round? Yes. J.D. Vance.

47:30Strategizing. Marco Rubio. Ascendant. Scott Besson. Competent. Pam Bondi.

47:47Also competent. A lot of conservatives really bashing Pam Bondi. I'm not proud of that. I think that she's done a good job, actually. Okay. Pete Hegseth.

48:00Sleek. Okay. And final, Kristi Noem. Effective. You know, that's actually, this is probably something that you and I don't agree on, maybe. But from what my mind is worth, actually, the number one thing that the administration has accomplished in this first year that I think they should be proudest of is the fact that southern border illegal crossings have decreased by over 90%. Oh, I agree with you on that. Yeah. Yeah. They've virtually gone away, which is extraordinarily impressive, to be honest with you. And I think that Chrissy Noem, Tom Holman, the whole team deserves a lot of credit for that, I think.

48:35Yeah, I wouldn't I wouldn't give them the credit for that personally, but I would give Trump the credit for it. I mean, I do I do believe that is something that he deserves in an inordinate amount because the whole thing was for years. We were told, like, look, the border, the border is porous. There's not really anything you can do about it short of like massive comprehensive immigration reform, which is never going to happen. So, like, it is what it is. And it turns out that like that's not actually true. Like Trump actually was able to just by virtue of his sheer personality come in and say, no, it's done.

49:03The borders the borders closed. Now, his interior enforcement, that's another ball of wax. We'll save that for a for another day. But my thanks to Josh Hammer. Thanks a lot, Josh. I really appreciate you coming on in. I appreciate it, Carl. Thank you. And again, you can watch Josh Hammer or listen to Josh Hammer on his syndicated radio show, as well as his podcast, which is on our YouTube page right here where you're watching this one. Thank you.