Carrick's Dream Derby; Managerial Murmurs for Frank & Glasner

0:07Hello and welcome to the Two Robbies podcast, your destination for in-depth discussion and analysis of the Premier League. I'm Robbie Earle. He's not Robbie Musto. I've got actually some sense on the show today. I'm joined by our very own Danny Higginbottom and here are today's topics. Michael Carrick storms out of the gate as the interim manager at Manchester United and brushes aside Pep Guardiola and Manchester City with a 2-0 win. It's a valuable point gain but frustrations remain as Arsenal play out their second 0-0 result in consecutive matches. The screws continue to tighten on Thomas Frank as Spurs, after a poor loss, were booed off against West Ham United.

0:48And good times at Crystal Palace appear to be coming to an end, as Oliver Glasner shares some choice words following their 2-1 defeat away to Sunderland. That's what we've got coming up in today's episode. So, first of all, Dan, great to have you on. As I say in the headlines, great to have a bit of sense. Musty, jeez, week on week. It's too much for anybody. I don't know how you deal with it. Tell me, mate. Tell me. I think they call it community work over here, spending that long with him. Let's get to the team. There's a shirt behind you of the great Manchester United, obviously a team you started at as well.

1:26I mean, that was the storyline, really. Michael Carrick and his first game in charge in his second stint at Manchester United. Dan, first of all, talk to me about the change, the influence of Carrick. What you saw different from Ruben Amram, and then we'll get into maybe some of the bigger picture things. Yeah, I think when you, obviously when Amram was there, there wasn't a shortage of goals. You know, they're one of the highest scorers in the Premier League who's only the top two that have scored more than them. But the problem was conceding goals. When they lost the ball, they were so open.

2:00And I think when you look at Michael Carrick, you speak to people that have been associated with Middlesbrough, you speak to, like, I've got quite a few friends, funnily enough, over here that Middlesbrough support us. And they said he was so close to getting it right. But he's got an identity. The one thing I would say is that that was one of the best Manchester United performances that I'd seen in a long time. I'd agree, yeah. Yeah, and I think listening to you and Tim yesterday, like at half-time but then at full-time, it was like, oh yeah, this is Manchester United. And it was a really, really top-class performance.

2:33I think the way in which they were able to go forward quickly and numbers the pace that they used I think Manchester United are at their best as a counter-attacking team. So you look at the two recent wins that they've had, Manchester City and Newcastle. They had like 33-34 % possession in both of those games. And is that okay, Dan? If you're Manchester United, who we've seen probably have more possession, that more attacking flair, is it okay to be counter-attacks down? Maybe a bit more Mourinho than Pep, let's say? it's okay to be if you're getting the results like that but the problem is there's not many teams in the Premier League that will say will dominate the ball over you I think that's the issue that you can have so you can say yes Liverpool where they went to Anfield got great result yeah Arsenal will always dominate the ball more than the Manchester City obviously Newcastle showed that although United didn't have their strongest team so I think when it becomes difficult it's probably 95 % of the time they're going to have to dominate the ball themselves and ask the questions and I think from Carrick's side of things I think he looked at it yesterday and said right if we can be compact in a 4-5-1 that means there's going to be less gaps between the midfield the defence and the attack and then we can break quickly with the pace that we've got so from that perspective it was an unbelievable setup but now okay play Arsenal next weekend they'll be able to do it then but when you're playing against teams sort of in that lower half of the Premier League it's going to be very difficult to do that unless you get an early goal it was a day Dan for me that I was kind of pleased.

4:01It wasn't X's and O's. It wasn't system. And it wasn't, of course, the system and the tactics are important. But, you know, we've been so blinded, I think, with Ruben Amrum. What I saw, mate, was players playing with freedom, with aggression, committee, front foot. I thought the football in the attacking third was excellent. I see Bruno in areas where he wants to be and can influence the game more. So supplying rather than scrapping around. I just think wonder mate and you've worked under different coaches as I have sometimes if you get too bogged into tactics the game gets played in your head and you're not as energetic you lose a little bit of that freedom and that way to go about your game seeing the contrast between Carrick and it's only one game Manchester United and Amherst first United team it just it feels so very different.

4:58Is there a sense that maybe too much was going on with the tactical side and thinking where I should be and thinking what I should do? I think there could be too much on that. If you and me were to sit down and have a conversation and I said to you, Robbie, name your best three performances. Give me the best three performances you had throughout your career. I guarantee if I said to you, how were you thinking during that game? You would probably turn around to me and go, I was on cruise control. I wasn't thinking. Things happen, don't they? exactly and I think that's so if you look at Manchester United's first goal yesterday the one that Mbumo scores yeah you can you can take that in any recent generation of Manchester United and people say that is a Manchester United goal yeah now people talk about the DNA of a football club I don't get too much into the DNA because a lot of people that provide that DNA are no longer at the club whether they're coaches players whatever it may be they don't exist as much now at the football club but I think what there was yesterday was Michael Carrick saying listen, our biggest issue is defending.

5:56We know that we've got pace in this team, so let's defend in numbers, and then we know that we can catch Manchester City out on the counter-attack. So, sort of, if you look at the game yesterday, and you're absolutely spot on what you're saying about the X's and the O's, yesterday, simplicity was genius for Manchester United. And that's what they did, and I think if you'd have asked Michael Carrick before the game, what would be the perfect performance, it would have been that. And let's be honest, I think 2-0 actually flattered Manchester City. Yeah, you're right. It could have been 4 or 5, I mean, they had two or three goals disallowed and hit the woodwork a couple of times.

6:29So if you're looking at Manchester City, obviously Haaland was really quiet. Do you think Manchester City suffers at times because this team is built around Haaland? It's a good question. I'm not so sure. I think this team plays some of its football, excluding Haaland, because that's the way they are, and they bring him in in the attacking third. He does what he does. He's still got 20 Premier League goals, an incredible number for this start of the season. I think Manchester City are a more careless city than we've seen in the past. I think they turn the ball over a little bit more. They're susceptible to counterattacks more.

7:11Defensively, obviously, Alain and Kuzanov were two young centre-backs who I thought struggled through the game. Alain came off at half-time. They got Ake, essentially, which wasn't a great upgrade, I didn't think. And so I think this City team have got to understand the mould of what a Pep team is. That great possession, but also as soon as the ball gets turned over, they go to work again. They stop opposition. That's one part of Pep's team that doesn't get talked about enough, how good they were without the ball. and it's interesting that you say that because i think that's liverpool's problem at the moment as well because we we look at it like and for so many years it was like wow guardiola's playing this football and klopp's playing this football they're committing so many men forward yeah and how are they able to stop the counter-attack but the whole reason is is because they're both they both commit a lot of plays forward so they're able to immediately go and press but as you quite rightly said i think manchester city when they lose the ball if they're not in that position straight away to press.

8:14That is when they're so vulnerable. Yeah. And United's first goal is a prime example. I think it was a free kick for Manchester City and then one header from Maguire and all of a sudden it's just, it's like the Red Arrow's flying forward. We could talk on this all night. We've got to move on because obviously we've got to get to a few other games. Before we do, mate, and I've got to get you to kind of the question where Lady Lowe's put me in term and I was listening to radios and that last night. Michael Carrick was brought in as an interim head coach for 17 games in the Premier League with a view to, I'm assuming, somebody else coming in in the summer.

8:51If things continued in this vein, you know where I'm going, so they beat Arsenal, they win the next 12 games, draw two and lose two, if that's the right numbers. Should Manchester United be thinking of Michael Carrick as their permanent manager? I'm seeing your face yesterday. When Bex asked you the question, and your face sort of sums up how I'm feeling, which is like, if he does unbelievably well, you're thinking, oh, yeah, you know what, he should be giving it. But I think what I'm trying to do, start sort of stepping away and saying, right, before Michael Carrick did anything at Manchester United in terms of the managerial side, you know, my biggest thing was, okay, it's important what happens on the field, but the most important thing is what happens off the field.

9:40as in terms of, okay, what's going on with director of football? Who is the next coach that you're bringing in? So as much as you would love to see a Manchester United legend going into the football club like he is doing, having great success, and then maybe the powers that be turning around in the summer and saying, here's the job for you. I'm going to go, I think I'm going to go against the grain. I'm going to go against the grain a little bit and say, no, no, I don't think so. Now, that could completely change. I can say if he has an unbelievable run, but for me, Michael Carrick is in sort of a no-lose position because he's putting himself in the spotlight now going forward.

10:17You can see methodical. He's very much as a coach as he was as a play, which doesn't get too high, doesn't get too low. Yes. Good shout. Yeah, I think if it's a two-color, if it's a Pochettino, get the work being done behind the scenes, whoever it may be, and hope that Michael Carrick does incredibly well. Great, great them for English managers. and then he can either be part of the new process or maybe move on himself. But I'm going to try and not look through the magical side of things, which we tend to do all the time. The rose-tinted glasses and the Man United DNA. I'm with you, and I like Michael Callick a lot as a player.

10:56I like him as a man, the bit I know about him, and I think he's a really smart coach. I still go back to Dan. If he wins all 17 games, and he wins all 17 games 4-0, the right long-term decision for this football club is not Michael Carrick now. Michael Carrick's going to be as good a coach as we believe. He'll go off somewhere else. He'll learn his trade, as others have done, as the Klops did, as Sir Alex did, as Pep did. And when he comes back to this football club, he'll be in a better shape to take it where he and the club want to be. And so I just hope that people can be strong with those opinions, have those opinions and look for the right thing for Manchester United because there's no doubt we saw what the potential even with this group of players can be.

11:44If you stop adding some other pieces and get things right behind the scenes, a lot more positive days could be ahead for United. Let's move it to the team who were top of the table. It was Arsenal going to Nottingham Forest. Arsenal coming off a 0-0 against Liverpool last week. A 0-0 draw at Forest, not taken in the same way. Many thought it was maybe a missed opportunity for Arsenal to put a nine-point gap between them and the Chating Pack, which was obviously City and Villa. How do you see that one, mate? I think it was a frustrating game for Arsenal. No question about it. We know with Nottingham Forest, they tend to do better against the teams that want to dominate the ball because they want to play on the counter-attack themselves.

12:28Under Sean Dyche, you know that you're going to have a really good defensive set-up. one of the things that I found interesting was the choice of centre forward. Now, I don't know what you thought about this because obviously Jokeres, he comes for big money. But I think when you're playing against a team that's going to play relatively deep, for me, I'm looking and thinking to myself, that's a Jesus or that's a Marino role where they will drag the two centre backs out and maybe create space in behind. So were you surprised that Jokeres started or is it a case of, well, they've paid this money, they have to stick with him?

13:00Not surprised, I think, for a couple of reasons. I think every time I see Arteta talk about Jokeres, he says, let's not just look at the goals, what he's doing in terms of taking defenders away and dragging people, which I think is a little bit of support for a guy who hasn't hit maybe the form that he would like. The goals have been okay without being spectacular. Lack of basic pace, I think, is a bit of a problem to him. because if you're going to play as he does, high up, as you say, on the back line, you need to have the kind of foot pace that's going to stretch out back forward and take them away.

13:36He doesn't have that. There was a great opportunity when he got sort of level with Murillo and they were running to goal. Murillo gets back and gets a challenge in. If that's Haaland, if that's Isaac in form, if that's Salah and those kind of forwards, they don't get there. The forward gets his shot away. So I think there's a little bit of self-preservation in I paid this amount of money for him, I bought him. I mean, what I would say, Dan, is Arsenal didn't win the title last season because they drew 14 Premier League games. Far too many. You buy Victor Jokeres and pay that kind of money to Sporting to change seven or eight of those draws into wins.

14:17Yesterday was one of those days. Now, service wasn't as great as it could be, but I think we're starting to get to the stage where Mikel Arteta might have to look at the other options. A Jesus and a Marino who come short, Kai Havertz who's getting back to fitness, or he's even played a Trossard in there who's a clever little manipulator of the ball. I just hope, Dan, and I said this on air to Tim and Rebecca, that Mikel Arteta is now strong enough and confident enough to do the right thing for the football club to win the title, not the right thing that might be protecting somebody. And if it means dropping Jokeres, own that decision, drop him, and go on and win the title.

15:05Yeah, what I find really fascinating is that you have Arsenal and you have Manchester City, right? Aston Villa, you know, it's a strange run. You wouldn't expect them to be there, but they are, and give them full credit. But if you look over recent years, it's been, you know, Liverpool, Manchester City and Arsenal have been challenging. but it's two completely different ways of doing things so if you look at Manchester City to all intents and purposes this team is sort of built to bring the best out in Holland listen get the ball up to him yeah he's gonna you're gonna create chances for him and he will get a huge amount of goals yeah whereas you look at Arsenal they don't build their team around a centre forward they build it as though it's a team where it's okay we'll have we'll have a few guys that will get six goals, some that will get five goals.

15:46Spread around, isn't it? Yeah. But it's fascinating to see that there's not necessarily one right way and one wrong way because, you know, City could still win the Premier League, although Arsenal are huge favourites. But I just think Arteta looks at it and goes, as you quite rightly said, I think Guardiola looks at Haaland as a centre forward. He has to be our goal scorer. I think a lot of the times Arteta looks at the centre forward and thinks he doesn't necessarily have to be the goal scorer, but he has to do something that's going to affect the play, which will allow others to flourish. Yeah, it's a good point, Dan.

16:17Let's move things forward because the weekend, next weekend, on Sunday 11.30am Eastern Time on Peacock, Arsenal host Manchester United. I mean, that was always us growing up and being in football was the big game, wasn't it? It was Wenger v Fergie. It was all on the Arsenal team. We've had Pizzagate and all that stuff, the history. It's a huge game. Who would you see favourites where we are now? also coming off the back of a couple of 0-0 draws or Manchester United buoyant by the 2-0 win and a week of work with Carrick now on the training ground? I think Arsenal will be favourites. But I go back to what I've said previously.

16:56I think this year they have managed to change it. But if you go back for, I think it's the last two seasons, they never followed up a bad result with a good result. And we've seen now they've just had two consecutive draws. So Manchester United can go to Arsenal knowing that they can play the way that suits them. I know there's pressure on Manchester United to succeed to get into that top four, but the onus will not be on Manchester United. The onus will be on Arsenal. So I think if you look at it and think to yourself, if Manchester United can have that defensive sort of structure, which enables them to keep tight, the midfielders close to the defence, and then the forwards sort of sitting in, and then play on the counter-attack with the pace that they've got, But Dorgou has just been sensational.

17:40He just looks completely different now playing as a winger. Then you've got Mboumo, you've got Kouni if he plays, you've got Ahmed, you've got Fernandes. So I think from Carrick's side of things, his preparation for the Arsenal game will be exactly the same as it was for Manchester City. I suppose for Carrick as well, Dan, the challenge, part of the challenge, and listen, whether he gets the job or not, who knows, let's wait and see. But part of the problems with Manchester United, they've shown no consistency, have they? They've never really gone like, OK, we beat City, they'll go and lose to Arsenal, and then we're not sure, and maybe draw the next one.

18:13Whereas, I mean, if he goes back-to-back, Manchester City and Arsenal, arguably the two best teams with Liverpool in the league, that would be eye-catching, that would be some kind of start. It would be incredible, but as bizarre as it sounds, they're two decent games. A lot of people turn around and go, no, surely your best two games would be Wolves and Burnley. But Wolves and Burnley are teams that can cause problems for United because they sit back. Manchester United are still at their best when they counter-attack. They have the ability to dominate the ball. There's no question about that, but they're wide open.

18:50Recent performances have shown that. Everton, West Ham, Bournemouth, Wolves, they leave themselves wide open. Whereas I think what he can say to the players is, sit back in a 4-5-1. Be patient. We don't have to get stretched. and then away we go. So I think it's more of the same. I mean, Wolves have done a job on Newcastle today. Burnley did a job on Liverpool yesterday. You know, Everton done a job on Villa, you could say. So, you know, those teams that you think you should beat are not that easy. So a huge game at the Emmets next Sunday, 11.30am Eastern Time on Peacock. OK, mate, we're going to move things on.

19:25Again, I'm going to take you to Tottenham Hotspur Stadium. Maybe a little less about the game, although we'll give some credit to West Ham and Nuno. who went 1-0 up through Somerville. Romero gets an equaliser for Spurs, and then in the last minute of the game, Callum Wilson, who we're led to believe is on his way out of the club, comes on, has a shot that gets out for a corner, from the resulting corner scores the goal that gives West Ham a 2-1 win against Tottenham. An incredible amount of booing at the end of the game to Thomas Frank. The usual, you're getting sacked in the morning. Apparently there was a meeting at the training ground today with some of the hierarchy and whether Frank was involved in that.

20:09But the word seems to be that, you know, they're going to continue with things as they are, but, you know, he's definitely in some hot water. Talk to me about Thomas, because I know you know Thomas well, and you've had a relationship with him over the years, and you speak to him now and then. Is this as simple as this job being too big? Is this the wrong move for Thomas Frank, who's no doubt an astute, smart coach, but it hasn't worked? In six months, Dan, I don't quite know what Thomas Frank's spurs are going to look like. Yeah, unfortunately, I have to agree with everything that you've just said there.

20:49I think when he was first given the job, I'm like, this is perfect. Because with Thomas Frank, I think he wanted to play a specific way at Brentford. but he couldn't play a specific way because he didn't have the players. So when he was at Brentford, what he would do is, if it was the big five or six clubs, he would play a... Yeah, he had a different style of playing. The rest of the teams, it was like, okay, this is the way that we can play. But that's not going to work at Tottenham. He is very much, or has been, and quite rightly so, with the club that he managed for so long, he was reactive instead of proactive.

21:24and I think a lot can be taken from Tottenham's away form. Only Arsenal have got more points away from home than Spurs have. Because away from home, they don't have to be the antagonist. They don't have to be the team that's sort of proactive. They can be reactive because the onus isn't on them. At home, I think there's only West Ham and Wolves that have got less points than them. They've won two games at home out of the Premier League this season. Two! In that magnificent stadium full of people. They've seen two wins. Yeah. And it's so bad. But if you were to reverse it and their away form is a home form, then there wouldn't be as much pressure on because that's where the majority of your fans are.

22:03Yeah. So I think he's sort of moving forward or he's trying to adjust himself because you look at Brentford, whether it was in the championship, even when they got promoted in the first few years in the Premier League, more often than not, it was, you know, Brentford, unbelievable story they're making the Premier League. and they were like, okay, we can defend. And then we'll break prickly. You know, you had Ivan Toni, you had Thiago who's doing unbelievable. You had Mbumo, you had players that could play on the counter-attack. Now, teams aren't going to let Tottenham play on the counter-attack unless it's, you know, the cream of the crop.

22:40They're not going to allow that. And I think one of the issues that he has is that he has to become more proactive than reactive because we know that the Tottenham fans won't put up with that. Tell me a bit about the club itself, though, Dan. As I look at it, I see some problems on the pitch. I see some relationship problems that I'm not totally happy with. I've seen Porrell, I've seen Van der Ven, I've seen others. With the manager, I've seen a bit of discord between the fans and some of the players. There seems a lot going on, a lot that's not right. And it doesn't all fall on Thomas Frank's lap.

23:17Certainly the football club needs to look at itself and how it's done its business. but there seems a few things that he's got to address, like sticky plaster, you know, what's the most important. And why I say that, Dan, is because I'm just going to make the comparison to Corsensio Somerville scores the goal for West Ham, ran all the way over to the touchline and gave Nuno a hug. Now, I'm not saying I love a hug. I love a manager who hugs me. I'm a hugger. I'm not sure if a Tottenham player scores, they go over and hug Thomas Frank. Now, that's OK, because different relationships, different people.

23:52I'm not sure Sir Alex Ferguson was a huge hugger of players but just that sort of visual side that the club's on side, that the players are behind the manager, I see at West Ham and fair play to Nuno he's trying to get things right I'm not sure I see the same thing at Tottenham I think this can go back years and years Robbie because it was something because I heard that comment that you made and I found it interesting because there are things that you always look at and think okay they can show signs of things. You go back to your playing career, right? And I go back to my playing career. Have you ever known what Tottenham are?

24:29And I don't mean that in a disrespectful way. What are Tottenham... Yeah, a good footballing team with excellent individuals, often top-class individuals, but never necessarily going to go on to win an awful lot. That's how my version of Tottenham would look. And OK, you know, they won the Europa League last season, but that was their first competition that they'd won in a long time. So I think what happens is when you've got Arsenal, when you've got Chelsea that have had the success that they've had over the years, Arsenal obviously, the huge rivalry that they have with Tottenham, that doesn't sit well with Tottenham fans.

25:05So I think from Tottenham's side of things, you look at this beautiful new stadium, they've spent a lot of money. But there's so much chopping and changing on a consistent basis that it's like the fans get frustrated with that. The fans get frustrated with the decisions that are being made. and so that's why I said to you what do Tottenham want to be but as each manager comes in, as each set of players come in, everyone's trying to distinguish what they're trying to be and I really want Thomas Frank to succeed, it's not looking good at the moment it really isn't well they've got Dortmund haven't they, Champions League and then they're away at Burnley which could be if they don't win at Burnley or certainly if they lose at Burnley I would think that would be almost the end for Thomas Frank.

25:49Yeah, I think it would be very, very difficult to disagree. Obviously, there's people behind the scenes that he's known for a long, long time. Not just being brought to the club by these people, but people that he's had relationships with before. I really want him to turn around. Yeah, me too. They allowed him to get Heitinger in, didn't they, as his assistant, which you kind of think, well, why would you do that if you were thinking to get rid of the guy? And also Gallagher as well. Gallagher's signing, yeah. So you would hope maybe that that gives them a little bit more. But you can see the supporters.

26:20If that booing continues and that supporters start, then it might move things on. Let's move on, mate, because we're a little short time this week. Sunderland 2, Crystal Palace 1. Sunderland continue to do incredible things, I think along with Arsenal, the only unbeaten home team in the Premier League. again this was more about what was said as much as how the game was played Pino gets Crystal Palace ahead Le Fay gets an equaliser and then Brobby comes up with another big moment for Sunderland great scenes again, good win for Sunderland and then we got the fallout of Oliver Glasner mate who came out really all guns blazing and talked about being abandoned by the hierarchy of the football club talked about his heart's been ripped out again after it was ripped out when Eze was sold.

27:14Basically, what you're saying without him knowing. Gai, he said, was allowed to move on the Friday ahead of the game, so he didn't play. He didn't know anything about it. I mean, he's called the club out. He's put a division, I think, between the club and the dressing room. He also, Dan, and something I found really difficult to accept, didn't make a substitution in the game. and I know they had a few kids on, they had Uche on the bench, almost to make his point. Almost like, the points are okay, we've lost the points, but I'm going to make a point here. That to me was actually reflected to me really badly on Oliver Glasner, a guy I enjoy seeing his football, been incredible what he's done for Crystal Palace.