Enzo's Equalizer Stuns City; Twice is Rice for Arsenal; Amorim's Quest for Control

0:12Hello and Happy New Year and welcome to the Two Robbys podcast, your destination for in-depth discussion and analysis of the Premier League. I'm Robbie Musto, he's Robbie Earle, and here are today's topics. Chelsea travel to the Etiab without a permanent manager and shock Man City with a late 1-1 draw that leaves Pep Guardiola fuming. Declan Rice's brace proves to be the difference for Arsenal as they grab a crucial three points on the road at Bournemouth. And Manchester United navigate a difficult draw at Leeds United, but it's Ruben Amarim's fiery post-match comments on being United's head coach that grabs all the headlines.

0:46That's what we've got coming up in today's episode. Well, Mustier, I leave you in studio for one week and you upset Ruben Amren and start him off, don't you? I mean, come on, leave Ruben alone. Let's start at the Atihad, mate. Manchester City-Chelsea was obviously in the spotlight for a number of reasons, not least. Dienzo Morasco porting ways with Chelsea midweek. Callum McFarlane, I believe the under-21 coach, was given the job of, I mean, what a tough job that is. your first game in charge, you're going to Manchester City away, Pep Guardiola's Manchester City. But in fairness, just concentrating on the game, Rob, I actually thought 1-1 was a fairish result.

1:28I kind of looked at the first half and you kind of felt with City's football, a goal was coming and Rinders with a beautiful strike. But I'd have to say with a slight change of system and a little bit more football from Chelsea, I thought an equaliser was coming I wasn't that surprised when Enzo Fernandes pokes them back on level terms. Yeah, difficult, isn't it, if Callum McFarlane, this under-21s coach, to come into a game like that. After the first half, Rob, I was pretty critical of Chelsea in the first half. Just thought they were very slow. I thought the game was slow, Rob. It was an odd game.

2:04It was an odd game. Given the size of the two teams, given how weird it's been for Chelsea over the last week and how big it was for Man City, it's a difficult game, they're in the title race they don't want to drop any points and I thought Chelsea were really flat slow, defensive reactive, deep in the first half and City... Did you put any of that down on sort of a new man and inexperienced not quite knowing what was there they were short of a couple of key people no Caicedo, no Sanchez no Cucurea, no Fafana I mean I kind of feel there's reasons I thought they looked like They just wanted to set up a structure that wasn't going to give much away.

2:45They weren't going to get blown out of the game early. That's how it kind of felt to me. Yeah, I get that. I just thought City were in second gear in the first half. They get the goal. I think they're thinking, wow, this is easy. This is kind of comfy. They didn't go at Chelsea to put them away. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Chelsea, the structure helped them more than I thought. but my opinion was, wow, they look a little sluggish and a little slow. We talked about it in the studio, like, you know, is the coach, the temporary coach, or maybe Rhys James, and a few of them are going to get a bit fired up for the game, and I thought they were better.

3:22And going back to the main bit of credit I give Chelsea and McFarlane, the young coach, was a change he made, Rob, to bring off Esteval and bring on Andre Santos to stiffen up midfield. So you've got Santos alongside Rhys James, which allows Enzo to go higher. And Cole Palmer. I mean, you know, and we know that Enzo Fernandes does not like really, can do it, but doesn't really want to be running back and filling defensive spots and stuff. So that was better. And they were better second half, front foot, pressed Man City. And Man City, Rob, I thought the second half were so poor and disappointing.

3:59Again, it's good, interesting. It looks like you've got a different take on it. But my take on it was like, come on, City. You're winning the game. They've had a bit of a rally up. Now start controlling the match like we know that you can with your football. Keep possession. Create some more chances because they look like they could, but they never could get hold of themselves, Rob. And I thought it was a very disappointing city. And Pep said afterwards he thought it was a fantastic performance from his team, which is one of those where you don't really mean that, but you're not going to give anything.

4:28Yeah. And he just never criticises his team through the media, which is fair enough. but what that also means is that he's really telling the truth because it wasn't a great performance for Manchester City and they were always vulnerable, Rob, to that late goal. A fair play to Chelsea, he stayed in the game and Enzo popped up with the equaliser. Yeah, I mean, where I saw, I kind of felt as though City were comfortable and had domination from the first half, but into the second half, I thought they got a bit complacent, Rob. I thought they didn't look, they didn't smell like the City teams that have been great City teams don't get two, three, four goals on a day like today.

5:07It's done and dusted. But I never felt like they kind of went into that mode or that gear. No. Why not, Rob? Why not? Well, listen, I don't know from a defensive point of view that you lose Diaz and Gavardio. You've got back four them with Nunes, Kuzinov, Ake and O 'Reilly. Don't think that gives you the same strength and structure, Rob, to attack with the same way now. They've got Rodri in front of those. I agree, but it's not Rodri at his very best. It's Rodri still finding his way. But yeah, I would say more at the other end of the pitch, Rob. They didn't look like they had that killer about them.

5:42And I think the longer that went, and it also felt like the fans were feeling that, it was almost like there was a little bit of a nervous tension around the XM. It's flat, it's quiet, isn't it? And I'm thinking from Chelsea's point of view, they started to grow into it. As you say, the change of system to be at the back and getting that extra man in midfield suits Enzo so much more where he can be as an attacking sort of eight, the more defensive player and again I say I wasn't surprised when the equaliser come I thought they deserved it I thought well played Reece James is very close to my underappreciated form of the week Rob he's a quiet man in terms of vocal and communication but I thought he was a real boss out there at times I loved it at the end of the game I don't know if you saw where he threw Callum McFarlane towards the fans at the end of the game as if to say, you know, you've been a big part of this, you've played your part.

6:31So I know that he's relied probably heavily on the experience, and I know it's a young side, but the Cucureas, the James, the Sanchez, Tosins, who all were part of helping him get through the day. So I thought it was a really good day for Chelsea and a really big disappointment for Manchester City. Where does that leave City, Rob? Like, you look at the league table now, that's a six-point gap. The goal difference is the same. Yeah. I mean, that's not far off being three results. Not out of it, because they've got games to play against each other, etc. And one bad day could make change. But it absolutely hands the incentive to Arsenal now again.

7:07You know, we were talking about, what was it, a few weeks ago, Arsenal could have gone eight to ten points clear, and then they closed it up. Now they've got a six-point gap again. We'll talk about Arsenal in terms of being at the top of the table. This is absolutely everything they could have dreamed of. Now they've got to push on and push this advantage home. Rob, just on City, just before we move on, a lot of people kind of felt like they're going to go on and win the Premier League title this year. I know I've had reservations about their defensive side of things. Does this change your kind of thoughts, Rob, longer turn on them and what their weaknesses might be?

7:41We've seen them have a good run, by the way, and we said on the poddy that they've had kind of winnable games over the last month or so, harder games now. Are their little weaknesses going to start to show up in some of these tough games? If those two centre-backs are outfending, if Diaz and Gavardio are outfending length of time, that looks different. Yet, I still continue to think they're a threat for Arsenal at this point in the league. But there were a few worrying signs today, mate. And I know the big lad's on these 19 goals and we continue to push him to higher standards. But, you know, today wasn't his day again.

8:20I think that's three now without a goal. Goals have come from other places, but they need to get back to that. They don't look like they're a team who are going to go seven, eight straight wins. But they have. They've had a good run. They have just done six and seven. But all of a sudden, today's a day, Rob, where that little something was missing. Because today was a day where they could have won that game in the first off. It's a city of old. And that's a slight worry. if that's not there, then yes, they're still going to win games, they're still going to push Arsenal, but are they going to be able to go in those sort of superior double-digit wins, double-digit unbeaten, that's going to push Arsenal all the way?

9:03Yeah, absolutely right, mate. Yeah, interesting game, just kind of an odd game. Let's go on to Bournemouth. Bournemouth against Arsenal. Ended up being 3-2 to the Gunners, wasn't it? Yeah, it was 3-2 to the Gunners. Deacon Rice gets a couple of goals. 1-0 down after Gabriel mistake which was a bit of a shock nothing that we've seen it told us a lot about Arsenal Rob where maybe an Arsenal of the past might have panicked a little bit might have not quite gone into the game in the same way having been 1-0 down I think that's part of what Michael Arteta after the game says he thinks his team have made a step forward, they're on the next step I thought he said they talked about their personality and their presence in the game.

9:51I thought that was exactly right. I thought their footballer game, Rob, came through when they needed it. Different people coming up with it this time. It's a Declan Rice day. Martin Odegaard continues to be a really important part of things with his passing and those little balls he plays in behind people. And right now, Rob, I think last week or so, I think I said to Bex, it was a statement against Villa. And my sort of worry with Arsenal is, how many of these kind of statements have they got? You know, have you got a bag full? Have they got a bag full? Or is there a few in there and they can only pull them out now?

10:27And it seems to me now they feel better and look more comfortable, regardless of the game situation. You know, 1-0 down to Bournemouth. It's a decent Bournemouth team, despite I know the results and I know where they sit. but that's not an easy team to play away from home. I thought their composure and their focus on what they needed to do was outstanding. Yeah, and I think the difference is now with Arsenal, Rob, I just feel like and I see there's a lot more creativity and goals in the team. Today was a Martin Odegaard masterclass again with some of his passes. Declan Rice is the player in this game that steps up and scores goals.

11:08You always think about champions having multiple match winners. we're seeing it now sometimes it's Trussard sometimes it's Saka you know Rice was in this particular game the players that came off the bench Rob they've changed three the three front players they changed in the second half it was just the penetration some of the quality football that I saw yes you think about it Rob I mean nobody very hard to score against Arsenal conceded two goals a very rare defensive mistake from Gabriel I'm not sure what he was thinking about trying to play a cross maybe changed his mind and pulled his foot I don't know whatever it was and then of course Gino Kruppi scores a screamer from outside the box that the goalkeeper doesn't see, that's two goals and yet they still win the game 3-2 Rob now that's different for me and I think the last couple of seasons they haven't been quite so potent around the goal and looking so dangerous and they concede two rarely but still win I thought it was another big performance Rob without Saka starting let's remember I thought Madweki Rob gives them a different kind of attacking edge on that side, Martinelli speed and obviously his ability to dribble past people you know this is without Ezra even being involved he's sat him down a little bit Robin come and sit down a little bit just Victor Jokeres Robin he's always part of it because he was meant to be the striker to score the goals I mean when they're winning right and you can always make an argument that he's occupying defenders he's making himself a nuisance we know he works hard and he's trying to do the right things as long as they're winning who cares?

12:39As long as winning mate it's okay if they win the title and he's still got just double figures goals it's still been worthwhile mate because that was the piece that was missing and whether it's that he plays an hour in Jesus or Marino or he comes on in other games and makes a difference in there it's all about everybody playing your part and I have little problem about that Rob as long as they're winning if they stop winning and the goals start flowing as they are from your Rises and your Azza days and your Saka days. We need a couple of Jokeres days as well, by the way. We will need a couple of Jokeres days in the second half of the season.

13:18But I'm going to go to my under-preciated form of the week, mate. And he's a man that we've never really spoke of in terms of Arsenal. We've never really spoke of in terms of big-name players, high-profile, high-transfer players coming into this league in the summer, and a lot of them struggling, Rob, and we can pick out. Well, I'm going to tell you about Martin Zubamendi, my friend. Yeah. He's come into this football club very, very unannounced, very under the radar. I saw a couple of brilliant quotes. I mean, I had him on my little list. As you know, we make a few notes as we watch a game. I'm thinking, Zubamendi, mate, is a control freak that allows Declan Rice to be Declan Rice.

14:03it allows Odegaard to be Odegaard that just gives that back two that's great, best centre-back pairing and thing, they've got a guy in front of him, and I heard Declan Meister, and I was so pleased he said it after to back up, Declan Meister, don't underestimate this guy, that he's come from the Liga and doesn't understand physicality he's not the biggest, he's not the strongest but he's got one of the best football brains I've worked around, and he says I learn every day of training when I'm around him which I thought was a brilliant statement for somebody like a Declan Meister who gets the headlines, who gets the man of the match, people are talking to one of the best midfield players in the world, but he'll also tell you that there's a guy who sits behind him, Rob, who gets none of the plaudits, he's grabbed himself a few goals, he's grabbed himself an assist or two, that's not the main thing he was bought for, but there's a guy who sits behind him who gives him the control of the game to allow Arsenal to be who they are in that midfield.

14:57Yeah, it's a great shout. It's a great shout, Rob. I think we've mentioned him a little bit in previous games about knitting things together. He looks really, really good. But you bring it up at a really good point in the season. He does a great job, Rob, but what they do Arsenal now, or often, those central defenders, they split deep in possession. He drops in between the two of them and just knits it together all the time. He's always deep of the ball. So he's always that available pass back to keep things going. It was a good day for Arsenal midfield when you think about it. The goal scorer of Rice, the passing ability of Odegaard, and the knitting together and defensive protection of Zubermattie.

15:30that's your perfect balance three midfield player so I really like the shout Zubimendi really like it and you're right if all the players come into the league for big money not that he was huge money but he's been one of the best that's settled in very quickly so yeah another good day for Arsenal good day for their midfield Mikel Arteta and given the Man City result they now sit Robbie Hill six points clear after 20 games you know there's been a bit of talk about the only thing that's going to beat them is themselves. Just one thought about their mentality, Rob, or their confidence level going into the second half.

16:09For some reason, Rob, I don't see it getting in the way so much now. I don't know why there's something... Because it feels different? Yeah, it feels a bit different. Beliefs change. I think now you look around that dressing room and say, even with injuries, Rob, we're still pretty deep. Really deep, yeah. Yeah, we've got people who can come in and make difference. We've got people hitting form. I thought Madweki, as I say, does a good job. You've got Jesus coming off the bench, can have us to come off the bench. Marino Eze, who's sat down a little bit. Next time he gets on the pitch, he's going to be going a million miles an hour to show that he's going to be in the side.

16:43So things going just as I think Mikel Arteta would like. I mean, they're squalled out, Rob. I mean, I think, apart from Max Diamond and maybe Mosquera, Ricardo Calafiori is the only player really out. The bench is ridiculous. Absolutely stacked bench. When you look at other teams' big sides this weekend, certainly think of Man City and maybe a couple of others, it's like, well, these are young kids on the bench. Arsenal are by far and away the strongest bench situation, and with people coming back from injury now, Rice was a doubt, he's absolutely fine now, of course. Mascara and Calafiore and Max Dalman are the only ones listed.

17:20I mean, Havertz was out. I'm sure he's very, very close to being available again, but no, looks very, very good for Arsenal, mate. Very good. Yeah, absolutely. Let's move it to Ellen Road, mate. There was a game there that filled, I think the right word would be hatred, 40 ,000 at Ellen Road. Real dislike between the two teams. It's gone back historically over the years, the White Roads and the Red Roads. I think historically people can look up if they won the history of the two clubs. Tight game, but okay game. I thought a draw was about the right result. but the action on the pitch was superseded by the manager, Ruben Amron, Rob, coming out and I think having some words, a little bit Enzo Maresco-esque in the way that he's put something out there, a little bit cryptic, didn't totally explain what he meant to say but I thought used the media to try and get Messys across.

18:19I know you've got maybe a breakdown of some of what he said. Let's listen to what he said and then let's have a thought after. Yeah, I'll just read this. It says, I noticed that you received selective information about everything. I came here to be the manager of Man United, not to be the coach of Man United. That's clear. I know my name is not Tuchel. It's not Conte. It's not Mourinho. But I'm the manager of Manchester United. I came here to be the manager of Manchester United, not the head coach. That's going to finish in 18 months and then everyone is going to move on. That's the deal. That's my job.

18:49And then he kind of mentions here, if people cannot handle the Gary Nevels and the critiques, you need to change the club. I just I'm not sure what to make of it Rob like he's saying I'm I've committed to be the manager of Manchester United not the coach but I think his official title is the head coach his role is the head coach isn't it isn't that the role but then he says he did say in the first part of that but I'm the manager of Manchester United so there's a little bit lost in translation there's probably a little bit lost in the meaning of the terms of head coach and manager coach and manager but surely that's what he's saying Rob isn't he surely he's saying I'm the manager, not the head coach.

19:26A head coach is somebody who's given a group of players to coach, and that's pretty much his role. A manager's involved in the whole recruitment, the whole way a football club runs, the whole executive situation, which is very different, and it's something that I don't think Manchester United have had. Now, I don't know if when Mourinho was in charge of Manchester United he was classed as the manager or not. I really wouldn't know. So are you saying then that even though his official title is the head coach, he sees his role more as a manager? Yes, he sees himself more involved in the day-to-day running and the decision-making of the club, not just the coaching of the players.

20:08He did say, Rob, as well, not in this quote I've got here, but he did talk about the sporting director. You know, he does his job, the recruitment, you know, as if everybody does their own job and I'm the manager. So I don't know if it's having a go at the other parts. He said something like that, Rob, because he finished that line off just to butt in, and he said, we've all got to roll for 18 months, and then after then, we'll all move on, which was a little bit... I mean, based on what Enzo Mareska's come out with over the last couple of weeks, and we've seen how that's finished, this is a very smart, intelligent man who knows what he...

20:43Rob, do you think he said this... So what's he doing it for? He's poking. He's poking, and I would suggest he's also in a position where he's trying to put something on the line and say, like, either back me or get rid of me. Do you think that he's fearing? I kind of feel like we're getting to that place. Because I know that, you know, not long ago, he sort of said again about, I want to play 4-3-3, almost like that's my thing, but I realise now that we can't, we're not going to have the budget, spend the money to get the players to make it the best 3-4-3 that I can produce, so I'm going to start making changes.

21:17We are into a January window right now, Rob. Do you think it's to poke them to get more money and to say, don't keep giving me all the criticism here? They've spent a load of money in the summer, more so on forwards, that maybe should have been spread around. Now, I don't know who's doing that with Rob. Is that, was he part of those decisions? I don't know. Or was that, you know, the Omar Barada and Jason Wilcox? My understanding was it's Jason Wilcox. Jacob Wilcox was your Benjamin Sheshko. That was his, my understanding is that he was the main driver of that. But you have to, and we know that there is always communication between the head coach and the sporting director on major signings.

21:52There just is. Apparently he says they speak on a daily basis Rob. Him and Jason. Now whether this is going to jeopardise that relationship we'll wait and see. I haven't got a chance to really go through my news outlets and my news stuff I follow online but I can imagine that the journos are going crazy with it. People will pick this up and start creating something. I'm sure, to Jim Ratcliffe, I'm sure we'll have a view on it, Rob. Yeah, he will. He's the guy who sits at the top of it, we'll say. I mean, the problem for Ruben Amarin is we haven't seen enough progress for him to be, I don't think, banging his fist in this manner.

22:33We haven't seen enough of what we would like to see. Now, yes, where Manchester United positions in the league... It's better, Rob. It is better. It is better. but would you say your eye test tells you they're a lot better? Are they getting close to where they want to be? I'm not sure. The league position tells me yes, so I have to say they are. But he hasn't convinced me yet, Rob. I've got to be honest. But I think we agree on this, Rob, that when a manager's into a big club like that, you need to see progression. And totally granted, it's taken a long time. But, and I know the standard of last year was so bad, There's always going to be some progression.

23:14But let me just frame it like this, Rob. They are sixth in the table right now after 20 games. They've got their best attacking player in Bruno Fernandes out. They've got their right side. A lot of players out. Yeah, they've got Mbamo, Amadialo. You know, I still feel... Masraoui. Like, when they've got their best team available, I think they're quite a bit better. And for me, you know, I want to see a bit more of it. You know, I'm super patient with managers. I think I said on the show and on our podcast that if they're not in a top A, this isn't going well and this is not going to end well. But when they're sixth and if they can stay there to the end of this month when everybody will be back from tournaments and from injury, then sixth to push on the second half, I'm here for that and I want to see it.

24:02But based on that, Rob, why is the manager coming out and saying the things he's saying? and for what reason are we there? Because some of this will hinder that opportunity. Manchester United aren't going to be happy with him continually coming out publicly and saying stuff like this, Rob. It just shows a division in the club, regardless of the success that was happening. Enzo Moreska got sacked and was manager of the month. He's probably in a stronger position to have a little rant than Ruben Amren is. It's funny, and I agree with that by the way, me and Tim Howard in the studio this weekend, and we both kind of said around the Chelsea thing, and it might be the same with Amory at Man United.

24:47Yeah. I mean, talk it out, guys. Like, you know when there's, like, people say things, like, get together and kind of talk it out. And I hope that happens to Man United, if it's Jason Wilcox or it's Jim Ratcliffe. Like, if you don't like what the press conference is like, okay, what's your beef? How can we try and make this better? And just try and help. Instead of going off the deep end and you're going to go and I can't speak to him and this is his relationship and you do that and I do this. Does it have to be like that? It's funny you say this because I've been thinking this since we were talking Chelsea last week.

25:21And I think you said something and it's kind of stuck with me. It's like, did this really have to get to this point with Enzo Marescu and the Chelsea ownership and whatever? And you know what I've been thinking about, Rob? And again, I won't make too big a point of it in naming names. but within a football club, of all the people that we see, there's 30-odd people that's associated around the first-team staff and massage people and technical people and data people. There's tons of them, right? How about there's a role in a football club for a person, and I don't know what his title is and his title's not important, he is the go-between the manager and the board, the executive the sporting director just let me finish because I hear what you're saying isn't that the sporting director well to a certain degree yes but the sporting director I assume is employed by the owner and tends to do what the owner does the manager maybe feels that he's on his things and I'll point to a friend of mine and he probably wouldn't like me to mention saying this but a friend of mine is mark bright who's who's an ex crystal palace player who you'll see every time you'll see steve pouch you'll see mark bright sitting next to him mark bright has got a role within the football club but he also has a role where he navigates a little bit between the manager in the boardroom and he's not there to tell to to tell tales or stories or some things he has conversations in secret with both parties but he's kind of the go between and i was kind of thinking rob in some respects you think of this person as a translator i'm saying one thing the board don't really understand you've got a board of maybe business people who don't understand they saying another thing this guy sits in between and he and he kind of translates between the two parties and and he avoids some of these things that we're seeing now that can influence and upset your football club where the manager...

27:23So I'm just saying, could Ruben Amren have somebody within that football club who he speaks to, who goes back to Jason Wilcox, who goes back to Omar Baroda, whoever, whoever, whoever, and we have some things, and they have a conversation out of the public eye to understand where they are, rather than what we're seeing now, and it almost becomes bravado at some point then, because the ownership group have to sort of say, well, I'm in charge, and the manager has to say, well, I'm not being respected, or people are interfering, and what we lose a job and people don't, you don't get the best of people who you've hired.

27:57An example then, go back to your Brightie. You know Mark very well, what a great guy. So Oliver Glasner, right, has hinted a little bit in his presses that, you know, his contract's coming up and he wants a bit more support from the club and the owner, more money to manage their schedule, European games and the UEFA Conference and everything else. So how would that work? So he might pull Glasner and say, alright Ollie like let's and he would have that conversation and go back to Steve Parrish or the director of football at Palace and send it in a way that Steve it would be yeah acceptable and you know take a little bit of the emotion out of it and just be somebody that can sit between listen we see a dressing room full of people and I'm thinking isn't there some one person who has that role that can be because we avoid all this Rob we avoid this us and them he said that you know Yeah, yeah, we've got to get away from this.