Maresca & Chelsea Part Company; Arsenal's Dominant Display; Mid-Season Awards

0:12Hello, Happy New Year and welcome to the Two Robbys podcast, your destination for in-depth discussion and analysis of the Premier League. I'm Robbie Musto, he's Robbie Earle, and today we bring you a very special episode. But first, here are today's topics. As we turn into the new year, Chelsea turn away from Enzo Maresca and agree to part company from the Italian manager who bought the club two trophies in the last six months. Arsenal take the edge in the title race by closing out the year with a massive 4-1 victory over fellow challengers Aston Villa, while Man City are left frustrated by Sunderland in a 0-0 draw.

0:46and Robbie and I unveil our mid-season awards in the Premier League as we hit the halfway mark on the season. That's what we've got coming up in today's episode, my friend. OK, well, there's actually only one place to start. I think we would have maybe started with Chelsea 2, Bournemouth 2, the game and the consequences of what's happened. But things have turned a little bigger than that at Chelsea Football Club. We both awoke this morning to the news that there's been a mutual separation, I think might be the phrase, between Enzo Mareska and Chelsea Football Club. I've got to admit, Rob, my first reaction was, firstly, not that surprised because, you know, based on some historic things that have happened, and we'll talk about those in a little bit more detail, but also what did surprise me is maybe the speed of how it happened and the timing more than anything of where it's happened.

1:42Chelsea are in four competitions Premier League, Champions League, League Cup semi-final and FA Cup third round coming up there's so much football coming up nine games in the next 27 days could have a big bearing on how this season plays out to have done this at this time feels like they must have a plan in place about somebody coming in very quickly and picking up the reins all that is so bad like David Ornstein said, is untenable. Like, it's so bad, the relationship's broken down so much that both of them, I guess, feel they can't work with each other. And he's out. I'm so disappointed, really.

2:23I'm disappointed because I, whilst realising this is a very unusual project at Chelsea, unprecedented to spend all this money on some of the best players in Europe trying to find a success for a decade, really. We know that there's a selling process. and the player investment business is going all at the same time. But Mureska's smart. He's done an excellent job. Pulled him back into the Champions League qualifications last year. You know, goes on to win the European trophy, which is, you know, maybe expected. But the Club World Cup, even though some people kind of frown on it, poo-poo it a little bit, I mean, you still outplayed...

3:01People aren't poo-pooing it now, mate. You still outplayed Enrique's PSG, the European champions, in an excellent 3-0 victory. And by the way, made a tonne load of money for the football club as well. Yeah. And then going off the back of that into a Premier League season where, wow, they've hardly had any pre-season time. And it's like, well, is it going to affect the team? I think there has been injuries. He's rotund and rested many more than he might have normally done. I'm just so disappointed, mate, because I look at the club and you look back at, you know, recent, there's four full-time managers at Chelsea under the current ownership.

3:36Of course, they took over and it was Thomas Tuchel who was there. Now you need to look back, Rob. Did he get a sense early on? Tuchel. Yeah. This is going to be challenging. So he didn't stay very long. Graham Potter, there was a lot of craziness when he was there. Maybe not the right pick, given how difficult the job was. He didn't last two minutes. And Richard Pochettino was a safe pair of hands. Good style of play. Good with young players. Good at building teams. And yet he left with mutual consent also, Rob, early. So, and now Moresca comes in, did a great job, and he's leaving. I got a question.

4:10I think we can question both sides, right? Yeah. Can we question the club side first? To get this, to be honest, to really understand this, you'd need to be in and around the club. You'd need to know and see some of the things happening. So, we have certain opinions from the club, and we're going to probably hear certain opinions from Moresca's side. And we take certain reports. Yeah. And we may speculate on certain parts of it, because we have to. We do. My first gambit, Rob, in terms of when you said you were disappointed, I always felt that this relationship was one of those where both parties can appreciate each other.

4:51I don't think the club appreciated they had a good enough... Why didn't they appreciate the manager? I'm saying because I don't think... Maybe he's not the biggest name. Maybe the CV resume wasn't as strong as some people they've had in the past. For some reason, there's been a dislike and a distaste to Enzo Moresco. Not sure the fans have totally bought into him yet. He had a similar thing at Leicester. Now, again, I don't know if that's part of his personality or the way he works. But likewise, I think he at times should realise this is one of the biggest jobs in Europe. A big six club with a great squad that needs developing, but with potentially a great squad.

5:33We've seen it, as you said, the PSG. They took Barcelona in a brilliant game recently. That's a month ago. We've seen them go against Arsenal down to 10 men and push the way they did. So there's huge potential in this group. So from Maresco's point of view, Rob, and we're hearing it's mutual, so both sides feel it's untenable, can't work together. I just wonder, if I'm Maresco, can I find a way to work with this group and stay at this football club? Because the potential of what it could be is title winners, is Champions League winners, is domestic cup winners. You don't get that at too many football clubs.

6:11So are you saying that he found a way to mess it up? That he rattled too many cages? The reports, David Ornstein again talked about, he contacted, or his people contacted Man City. I know he's got Jorge Mendes as his agent now, which might be putting things... Why is he doing that? Is he unhappy in the environment? or is this just bad on him? Again, just for our viewers and listeners, there is a big difference between a head coach and a manager. And this guy is a head coach. So basically, they've got the director of football and the whole system that buys young talent, brings it into the football club, basically says to Maresca, manage this group of players and be successful.

6:55And they will have a view of what that should look like in terms of football. they'll have a view of what that should look like in terms of winning trophies. And my sense is that he feels his interference. He wants a little bit more say in certain things. There's rumours that he wanted to centre-back in this January winter and they feel they've got enough and all that kind of stuff. And so I just feel as though, Rob, there's been a bit of a fallout and neither party really wants to say, actually, sorry, let's work this out. They've both gone with the, well, I'm not saying sorry and I'm not saying sorry.

7:28and so we go along. I almost think if it's like us, the two Robbies, we couldn't be a one Robby. Each of us has got to appreciate each other. If we had an argument, we'd sit down and try and talk it out. Ideally. Or if you do something, we'd go through it. Correct. It's like, well, why are you doing that? Make me understand. I just don't know what sort of... Is there a sense, though, that the... And again, I don't know. I'm chucking out there. Is there a sense that the interference might be coming from a number of ownership, directors of football, and medical. Well, the medical side of things apparently is that they have a lot more autonomy on who plays, how long they play.

8:07And that's going to rub any manager up the wrong way, Rob, isn't it? But that might be the norm now in certain clubs. I don't know. Yeah, but we saw a situation this weekend when 70-odd minutes, Cole Palmer came off and the fans were shouting to him, you don't know what you're doing. Now, he might not have wanted Cole Palmer to come off if we believe all that we're told and maybe they were saying to him, give Cole Palmer 70 minutes and then you've got to change it. This is such an unpleasant, awkward situation. It's not great for either. It's not great for either. And I just think when you've got somebody that...

8:45And by the way, this is going to split opinion with Chelsea fans. I think I've seen already that a lot of them are like, what is a club doing? What are our owners doing? And other people, well, we haven't been playing well. One win in seven. He's dedicated with the fans. He's changed in all these different partnerships to centre-back. I'm not on that side, I've got to be honest with you. I like what he did. Tactically, he was very advanced and took a long time drilling these players into different systems where they knew what they were doing. They start again from scratch. Who knows? We'll get on that in a second.

9:13Who comes in, Rob? So I get that from his point of view, what he might have done wrong to get into the bad books of the club. But I still look at who's been there in the past and I still wonder what the expectations are at Chelsea. Now, I know the ownership group, Clear Lake Capital and Tom Bowley and that group, they don't know English football or European football or the Premier League that well. Do they think by spending all that huge amount of money that they should be fighting at the top? We should be top of the table. We should be right there with Arsenal and Liverpool and Man City because we spend that amount of money.

9:44It's a good point. But obviously we know that when you go with young players like that, it's a process and this hasn't been done before and it's going to take a little bit of time. Possibly in some of their other businesses that work. It might work out. Like, I'm putting this amount of money in, this is going to do this, and that's going to be success. Football doesn't work like that. Football's completely different. And Lauren Stewart and Paul Winslet. They must be smart. They must be smart. They're smart guys, mate. But not football, they're not. They have two directors of football. So they've got directors of football.

10:10I just can't imagine Paul Winslet and Lauren Stewart, the two experienced, respected directors of football, are going to sit down and think, this ain't going very well. You know, Enzo Moreska. They've won two trophies. They're just outside where they want to be. And they must have hired him in the first place. I can't imagine that those two are going to wrap the cages. I don't think they're going to interfere with him. They know it very well. I worry, and I'm speculating, mate, and I'll own up to that. But, you know, Iqbali and Boli or whatever. I think Iqbali is the most powerful man with the highest shares.

10:45Is he interfering? Is he questioning the manager's tactics? Is he questioning the substitutions? Are they getting involved? Is the manager frustrated? Does that why he started talking to other people? There's a sense, isn't there? What's the environment like, given what they've already had, Rob? They've had really good managers before that haven't lasted more than a year and a half. There's a sense that after every game, they come down from the director's box they're in, they walk over the pitch and come into the dressing room. Now, that's uncommon to have. The ownership that close to a dressing room, and I'll tell you what that breeds, Rob, it breeds relationships where players who aren't happy will be whispering in their ears.

11:20If I've been taken off after 60 minutes and I thought I could continue to play, they'll be whispering in the ears. These dressing room conversations that should be amongst the players and the coach that shouldn't be going anywhere else. And if that's happening, you've got a problem. Now, let's sort of move it on to where we go and who might come. Because, you know, for all intents and purposes, it's out there and David Ornstein went very strong in it. It feels like Liam Rossini, a young coach who was at Hull City, didn't quite get promotion with them. Moved to Strasbourg, has done a pretty good job in the Blue Coat.

11:56Which is a club under the umbrella of Chelsea's multi-club system. Done particularly well, but very young, very inexperienced. It would look like he's got a huge future in front of him, but hasn't got a lot of miles on the clock. There seems to be a sense that he's the guy they're going to go for. Based on the reasoning, they need to get somebody in quickly. Because, you know, there's a lot of important football to play in the next 20-yard days. If those Chelsea fans thought that people like Graham Potter and Enzo Maresco, who are the two of the four that were more inexperienced, I mean, Pochettino and Tuchel, so they've had the experienced ones, Rob, they've had less experienced ones, and now they're going to go for another young one.

12:39I would be stunned if Liam Rossini, who was on TV a couple of years ago. He did a lot of TV, so he was good on TV. He's a good coach. And he's now going to manage a team like a giant club like Chelsea. The expectations are so high. That would be remarkable to me. And I'm here for it, but really? Get rid of Marassco to take this young man. A rookie? Again, that would smack, Rob. That would smack, if this is the case. So I would smack of a decision that's been made without the full understanding of what the implications are. But the two directors of football, they surely have to say, no, no, no, guys.

13:21No, no, no. Are they in a position to say that? What's the point of them being in a position? Well, to bring the players in and channel through the club. And this is the bit that's hardest for us to understand. We don't know. We're speculating on certain things. And we'd love to know. But Vecini, I think, is an excellent young coach and he's in the system and could be one for three, four years down the road. They can obviously click the fingers and move them out of one club into another club, so it's easy to do. He's got to get some miles on the clock. Chelsea's a difficult club on the best days.

13:53When they're going well, it's a difficult club. I just don't know who the right guy is. When they've had the people they've had already. I mean, there's been talk about a Glasner and an Iriola because their contracts are up. There's talk about Amarco Silva. There's talk about Xavi. I've heard John Terry's name come out recently. You know, would be a fan's favourite with the right backup behind him. Do you think that anyone that comes in next, they have to, like, win immediately to keep their position? Oh, basically. Because after a year or so, if there's a little bit of fan discontent, they're probably going to go.

14:24Well, I think it's two things. Win instantly and put up with the conditions of the job and don't moan about them. So the conditions of the job are, you know, we might tell you this, we might tell you that. You've got this player for 60 minutes and you're going to have to get on with it. There isn't a match-up, Rob, and we should move on in a second. There isn't a fit here with a club that's buying young players to grow, right? No, it's unique. This is unique. To grow and yet expectations of a manager to make them win. Yeah, this is unique. It doesn't match up. Like, this is going to take a little bit of time.

14:57They sign on long contracts on low wages. so it's something that's going to build and yet they want him to win straight away. Two projects you mentioned earlier today which I thought was good analysis was Jurgen Klopp went in at Liverpool amassed a group of players over a four or five year period and we see what they do. There you go. Mikel Arteta is doing a similar thing and they haven't just bought young players they've got experienced players and all sorts this is a mix. So Chelsea are going down the young player which is fine But there has to be patience. Even if you give that four or five years, we're saying we're not buying any older players, you've got to give that four or five years to mature.

15:39We keep saying all this, like Chelsea dropping points and winning points, Chelsea still can't manage football games. These young players haven't still yet worked out. In games, they go ahead, and I heard some stat today, they scored first in every home game apart from Palace this season and dropped points in games. Yeah, I mean, I knew it might come given what we've heard the last couple of weeks. And a lot of this, by the way, maybe is Enzo Mreska's fault. Yeah, yeah. I just think, what environment is it that ends up being this collision? I don't think he's blameless. I don't think he's blameless by any means.

16:12No, he's not. I'm sure he's not. It's just like... You know, the thing he came out with, the 48 hours, I've not had the support, and it's my worst time at the club. I mean, what was that? I mean, who was that? Yeah, why or what was he trying to say there? And he felt the need to say it right. Yeah, absolutely. I know he shouldn't have done and said things that he has, but what's led him to that? And that's what's hardest to find out what goes on behind closed doors because no one's going to report that. I just think they had a good manager, mate. I think he's really smart, and I thought the team was responding to him over a difficult full summer of games to come into the season and to expect to be in the top.

16:47I know what it's going to take for them to be in the top two or three, and now he's gone. It's astonishing. Within seven days, mate, there'll be somebody else sitting in that seat. I guarantee you. A month ago, I think he's the current... He's the current manager of the month for November. He got it on December the 8th. December the 8th, he's won the manager of the month. And then he's out on New Year's Day. Less than a month, he's out. Amazing. Only Chelsea. Only Chelsea. OK, mate, let's move on to Arsenal, who had a big test coming into this midweek. the Aston Villa, the informed team coming to the Emirates an Arsenal team that we've seen the gap close a little bit, we've seen a little bit of headlights and pressure starting to come on Arsenal as emphatic a win as emphatic a statement as they could have made as a 4-1 win mate this doesn't need much analysis mate because this ticked every box, this was exactly what they needed I thought that it was going to be difficult particularly second half.

17:52It's nil-nil and we know the Villa are strong second half but they didn't allow them anything in the game in the second half. They piled on the pressure. They increased the intensity and in every kind of facet of the game they were too good. Took their chances. Brilliant football. Gabriel back, Rob, is such a massive thing for the team in every aspect of the game from his own defending, from his own attacking. Of course he gets the first goal, start the second half. And Arteta got an amazing performance. No deck and rise. There's players coming back from injury. Jesus looks like a new man inspired with what he's doing right now.

18:26Victor Jokre still is concerning. Yeah. But when others are stepping up and scoring goals like that. Oh, the God came back in, didn't he? He's playing well. Yeah. The last two or three games. He's being somewhat different, doesn't he? It's a little bit of difference. Penetration, assists, passes. Clever passes. So it was a very strong, mate. Very strong performance. Yeah. I'd say, written down the two Gabbies, I think, at both ends of the pitch could have a really important pot to play. We know Gabriel, the defender, but Gabriel Jesus, he could rattle in ten goals and he's won a title, he's got the experience.

19:01Let me just point you to an incident that's happened in the game. Mikel Marino's on a yellow card on his hand. Oh, yeah, yeah. And at 2-0 up, he pulls down Morgan Rodgers, right in front of the nose of the referee, he has a good look at it. Yeah, he's behind him, though. So he might, actually, only out I can give him. I'm convinced all day long he sees enough of that challenge. So why doesn't he give a yen of the yen? I mean, that was the bit of luck that maybe Arteta will say they needed or things have gone against them this season because that could quite easily have been the second yeller. And it was on 58th minute or 59th minute.

19:34It was 2-0 up. It might not have affected the result, but it was a shocking miss of the ref. Yeah, and a little bit fortunate for Arsenal. But having said that, they were excellent. A day when it wasn't necessarily a sack a day or those kind of plays. And I think that Wai also needed it. There's been a few narrow own goals. We don't talk about they need own goals or they need set pieces. And I think I said last week that they could do with a real dominant, real strong performance just to get back on track. Well, maybe it's a week later than they thought or a few days later, but that's exactly what they need.

20:05I like the line from Arteta actually in the end. He said what he liked about this was when his team smelt blood, they went for it. I thought it was a really good way of saying once their football after second half was excellent. Once Gabriel gets back with Saliba and that centre-back, and I know the full-backs have changed a little bit, people aren't going to score much against them. And they've got a variety now in attack, they've got options. A tremendous bench, isn't it? You look at their bench. Kai Havertz on the bench, so he's coming back as well. So really good, really positive for Arsenal.

20:34It's a great win against a tough filler. Absolutely. Should we go to Stadium in Blight? Sunderland 0-0, Manchester City 0. In fairness, I thought it was a brilliant rearguard action by Sunderland, who in the first half actually pressed, Rob. We did a little piece on their physicality, winning the ball, stopping City playing. Pep obviously was disappointed. They did play back to second half, but some great defending, some good goalkeeping, some not great finishing for Manchester City. Ends up being a really good result again for Sunderland, who now joined with Villa, joined with Liverpool, joined with Arsenal.

21:10and Manchester City now at the stadium of light. Unbeaten, one of the only two unbeaten teams in this. Regis Labris, I know we keep on, but I just thought his team showed us another part of who they are. We've seen them play good football. We've seen them go a bit direct. We've seen them pressing a little bit higher. Today they were in a low block. They weren't off-committee. Only in a low block second half, really. Yeah, first off they were a little bit more. They were at times, but they certainly pressed a little bit higher They're in City, found it difficult to get their football going. I mean, I've seen enough of someone now.

21:42I know all about them. I've seen them close enough now, enough times to know what they can do. And the shape of the team is a brilliant shape. You can see it when you see the team play. But also the aggressive pressing. Anytime a ball went wide, they were right quick into the face. They're doing everything right defensively. And with good bits of football, with the long throws and the set pieces and the physicality, they're going to score enough goals to win points because the defence is so strong. third best defensive record in the Premier League right now. And half a season gone. And by the way, six players missing at AFCON.

22:12Yeah, yeah, absolutely right. So from their point of view, absolutely brilliant. And I also think for Man City, Rob, you know, Arsenal drew 2-2 there. I thought City played well. They tried everything. They went wide. They tacked in through their wingers. They have the guys through the middle. They did get into the box, particularly in the second half, and have opportunities, send them through their bodies and faces in front of the ball. And you can't win every game. and I think Pep after is like, I don't know what else he can do, Rob. Do you think for them? I mean, what else could you have done?

22:39No. He used his subs. Goalkeeper had a good day. I mean, Holland didn't have too many good looks. He made a save off his feet early on. But, yeah, it was one of those days. And, you know, Doku came on and started to have a bit of a threat coming inside. But they didn't get numbers behind the ball. Gernot Schack was outstanding. Again, outstanding. So, yeah, there's not many places, as I say, teams are going to go to Stadium of Light and Manchester City have to be happy with a point on that one. But just quickly, mate, that's a four-point gap now. We're halfway through, that's a four-point gap.

23:12It's a good match week for Arsenal. That's a two-result shift, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. That's possible, but that's a lovely cushion, you know, given there's half the season left, 19 games. Yeah, 19 games. And they've got two results where they need to be... City have to better them for two results. So based on the 4-1 defeat for Villa, are they the little horse in the race? They're very little horse, yeah, which I never had them in the race, really. And when they're that close, like three points, I get it. Yeah, three points behind, yeah. But I also think a lot of this talk of races, it's not a race until...

23:48No, it's not a race. It's not a race until, like, April. Yeah, yeah, until eight games or something. And then when you see the end of the tunnel, when there's like eight games, then you sprint in to finish. So I don't think, I think it's going to be a... Totally out of it. I think it's going to be a two-horse race. Of what we've seen, more evidence of these fixtures, Rob, it's going to be Arsenal or Man City that win the Premier League title and a four-point gap for Arsenal. You know, often, mate, that's kind of how it ends up. Yeah, yeah. I know a lot of people, Danny Higginbotham talks about it's only themselves that's going to mess it up and it's probably the case right now, isn't it?