Scarlet Spurs, Three-Horse Title Race, Rogers to the Rescue

0:12Hello and welcome to the Two Robbies podcast, your destination for in-depth discussion and analysis of the Premier League. I'm Robbie Musto, he's Robbie Earle, and here are today's topics. Liverpool survive a wild trip to Spurs in a game that saw two red cards, goals from Isaac Nekotike and left Thomas Frank fuming. The title race narrows as Arsenal find themselves top of the table at Christmas after a 1-0 win at Everton and are closely followed by wins from Manchester City and Aston Villa. And Newcastle's dominant first half is not enough to hold off Chelsea in entertaining Tutu Draw at St. James' Park.

0:47That's what we have coming up in today's episode. But wait just a second, Mr. Earl. What do I spy on your right? What is that beautiful-looking piece of hardware? Well, do you know the phrase, friends in high places? When you've got friends in high places, my friend, you get the Premier League trophy, courtesy of Harry and Mick, who are the trophy ambassadors, who've been in New York with the trophy this weekend. They came down to the studios and really very grateful that they were allowing us to have the trophy in the podcast for the first five minutes of the podcast. They'll come and take the trophy and the plinth away in the next five minutes.

1:26So if you see some guys doing that, but just what a brilliant. The closest you've ever got, my friend, isn't it? It is the closest I've ever got, but it's a year with Arsenal, with Man City. And now I'm going to say Aston Villa, mate, chasing this trophy next May. that's what colour ribbons are going to be on next May so let's get to the action mate we're going to start with Tottenham Hotspur vs Liverpool one of the blue chip games, I think this was the game that had the most goals in Premier League history between two teams it was a bit cagey certainly in the first half, 0-0 and then the goals came, Izak who came on as a second half sub Akitike getting the goals for Liverpool with Charleston getting a reply for Tottenham, who went down to nine men in this game.

2:16Not the first time that's happened. I mean, so much going on, Rob. Where do you want to start with Tottenham, Liverpool? Should we talk Liverpool and a win and getting back to a little bit more of the form we expected? Yeah, we're starting to get used to this kind of diamond set-up now for our slot. I think after the goals that were getting conceded that we talked about, But he made effective changes, Rob, really effective changes. We know Gakpo's out right now. Mo Salah was left out the side. Now, of course, he's away at AFCON. But that diamond in midfield with four central midfield players naturally is going to give the defence more protection.

2:53I think naturally it allows them to dominate possession with lots of... Look to the game, Rob. It's kind of ticky-tack of football a little bit at the moment for Arnazlotz-Liverpool. He kind of likes it slower and more precise football. not always curating the most I've got to say it wasn't a game where they created a ton of opportunities but I'm kind of liking how he addressed a pretty serious issue early season and like wow we're conceding goals let's try again oh more more conceded and said enough's enough which is what I think we talked about on the on the podcast Rob and he addressed it he's toned it all down it's got back to not a clean sheet in this game but much less opportunities conceded and I think it's the way to go and I think you're going to see from now there's moments in this match where they look pretty slick and controlled the game through their possession but I think that's the way to do it.

3:42You shut up shop a little bit, you tighten things down and you slowly expand and go again. I think we're in the middle of it right now and I think it's good work for Manus Lott. Yeah, it was interesting Rob watching the game and we had a little breakdown and there was probably three, four, five instances where when the ball turned over, how quickly and how hard the Liverpool players got back towards their defensive and got their shape set up, mate. It was a bit like, OK, if we lose possession, we're not going to be as easy to play through. We're not going to be as porous as we saw early in the season.

4:12I thought it was interesting, the Viet's position, who sometimes sits quite close to the striker, but then drops into the left side and comes into the middle of the pitch. At times they had five men in that key area of the pitch, which just dominated the possession from Tottenham. Yeah, I mean, we've seen other teams do that. Rob of course that's what Man City doing right now yeah it's kind of similar you know when you see the teams have control of it and they're building up and they're moving forward they kind of look similar where they are the fullbacks are going to provide the width I think it suits Milos Kerkhez better to have the license Rob to get forward down the flank a little bit when they play in a different way with wingers which are not right now at Liverpool he's a I think the manager wants him to be a little less attack minded but right now I think he's enjoying it and I think the team are enjoying the extra possession in the middle of the park so you know we do you we're used to seeing more chances and goal scorers and from the wingers gacpo and diaz and salah and other players in the past it's a little different now he is playing with the two up front and one of those guys is hugo katika rob and we're getting evidence every single week my friend that this you know this is a special player and i think the the headed goal that he scored um it just completes the sort of type of goal that this guy is scoring he can score all types of goals from tap-ins to sliding kind of attempts uh in the six yard box to volleys around the edge of the box to getting up leaping up very high over an excellent defender and finding a cute header into the top corner so So Hugo Eketike is becoming a story to me.

5:47I think he's becoming undroppable. Maybe the manager's going to appreciate that and will play with two up front with a diamond in midfield. That looks at the moment, Rob, the way to go. Do you feel the same? I mean, he's, of course, came in and scored as well. But Eketike is quite the story. It's one of the stories of the season in the whole league for me. Absolutely. And again, shadowed by the Isaac signing and the Mo Salah sort of fallout. I don't think he's got the true respect that he probably should have in terms of a young footballer who's coming to a new league. He's still 23 years of age, Rob.

6:23There's still plenty more to come from this young man. But, yeah, he looks like he's got a bit of everything. He closes down particularly well. He works hard out of possession. He isn't one of them who switches off. So, yeah, totally agree. And the structure of Liverpool now looks a lot more solid. People look a little bit more focused on the job, Canarte and Van Dijk, particularly looking a bit more like the pair we saw last season. I suppose a bittersweet situation for Liverpool, just in picking up the storylines there, Rob. But Izak comes on, scores a really nice goal, actually. He beats with the assist.

6:58And then we're hearing today that there could be some kind of serious lower leg injury that they're worried about. Obviously, we're not going to speculate. And the medical people are still, obviously, investigating that. but it doesn't sound great, Rob, with the noise that's coming out of Anfield. No, and it's, I don't know, he just seems to pick up stuff, Rob, doesn't he? You know, and it was a nasty follow-through challenge from Mickey van der Van. It looked pretty nasty, Rob, you know. It looked like his leg got caught in between with the weight of the defending player. We'll see. I think we, for all his brilliance, Alexander Izak is not particularly, he's not one of the strongest and most durable players in the league, but we will see.

7:37That looked a heavy challenge. I thought the ball was really good from Florian Vietz, Rob, I know he's been criticised or maybe questioned a little bit about how he's going to adjust to this league. He's found it difficult with the numbers, but he's still on the eye test. He still looks really comfy, silky, progressive, great energy. Yet he gives it away. Sometimes you wouldn't expect him to, but he runs back to get it back again. Maybe this system gives him a little bit more licence if he's coming out of the front two to come into midfield, as you said. So I think he's a slow burner. And I think he might take a little bit more time, but I think the quality in his feet and his intelligence in his head, I think he'll find a way to become a really important player for Liverpool, Rob.

8:21Again, it might not even be this season, but there's enough that I see that I feel like he's going to be a success at the club. The other side of that, Rob, and I'll ask you, the other side of that would be, yeah, but can he handle the physicality of the intensity? That's what you struggle with. Do you think that's going to hold him back? I don't, because I think he's got enough ability. I think when Liverpool's structure gets more settled, they have more possession. We've seen players of that build. David Silva would be a great example of somebody who wasn't a huge, powerful man. The technique and the ability and the football IQ, Rob, gets you into such good spaces.

8:57So I worry less about that. And I think, a bit like you, I think Vietz is starting to show signs of coming to terms with what the league's about. I think we should move it to Spurs, Rob, because there's a few storylines there. And let's go to, you know, we talked before the game yesterday about, you know, flying verts for Liverpool, Xavi Simmonds, you know, maybe similar types of players coming into a league, wanting to play in that number 10-ish role where you can, you know, get on the ball and make things happen. It didn't happen for Xavi Simmonds. How did you see the red card that was given to him?

9:29Any kind of qualms with that? Not really. I mean, when I first saw it, Robert, I thought, well, he's not got total solid contact. but I think when you see the way that he stretched, I think, who was it, one of our guys in commentary? Was it Lillie or, I think it was Graham Lassau that sort of correctly said, look at his stride path. He's not, that's not, because my first thought was, how he's just got clumsy there. But it wasn't in his stride path. He kind of reached out and it was nasty. The studs are on the back of the Achilles. It does endanger the safety of the player. So I get it. And I think what we've seen from Javi Simmons, Rob, and we've covered every game pretty much, it's like, I think we've seen the good, the bad, and the ugly.

10:06this was an ugly situation an ugly moment where didn't need to do it we've seen plenty of bad play from him early on but we've seen some good stuff too we've seen a national teammate as well wasn't it you know which makes it even more life-changing I know yeah so I think you know instead of making quick kind of assumptions about players I think we've learnt now that it's like this is going to be one there's going to be some bad there's going to be some good there's going to be some indifferent yeah the breakout couple of games he had Rob where he scored those goals it's like ah there it is there's a bit that they wanted and other clubs wanted as well.

10:37So I think, you know, like others, maybe like Florian Verts, I think you're going to get a bit of this. In some weeks we're going to say that was great, in other weeks we're going to say that's not so good. The key thing is over a period of time, over 10 games or 20 games or a season, you've got to have some numbers for us to make a summary at the end of the season and say, yeah, he's on the right path, he's going to be a star, or this inconsistency is too much of the not great stuff and not enough of the good stuff. There was one part of the game, Rob, that didn't get as much traction as I thought yesterday.

11:09There was a lot going on. Christian Romero and the captain. Second yellow card. Again, loss of emotional control in a big game in a heated situation where he just goes around causing chaos and tackling and losing his head. Remember last week we had this sort of laugh about which pair would you take? You know, the Van Dijk and Canaan team. We talked about Romero and Van der Venne and Van der Venne's great athleticism and Romero's fire, but he's got to control it, Rob. We're getting to the point where he's becoming a bit of a liability, this guy. And I think Thomas Frank has to be careful in if he continues to kind of sidle up to him rather than come down strong.

11:52I think it's a problem that could continue. I mean, I think what we know about Thomas Frank is that of his best attributes is man managing, isn't it? This is obviously a man-managing situation, but it's different. I mean, I should imagine Christian Romero is a difficult guy to try and get into his head a little bit. He's so aggressive. He's so determined. He's so strong. Which in one part can be a strength, Rob, if it's manufactured the right way and it's kept under the right wraps. Yeah, but it's too often. He's the captain of the club, mate. I don't think he's a captain type. I think a captain would be the one that go over him and get in his face a little bit and say, calm down, will you?

12:34And push him away. He's a captain. I just don't think he's a captain. Mickey van der Ven would be better for that, in my opinion. He's calmer, brilliant player, but that's the captain. And it's a kick out. It's petulant. I mean, every time we saw him in the flesh, Rob, was that a couple of years ago now? And we were on the sideline. And one of our take was, was this crikey. Every time he, it's a noise. Every time he went to challenge somebody it was so powerful and you can't you've got to control yourself i think there's a raging there's a raging angry defender in there that wants to put his physicality on every player he can with the strikers and he bangs in there and i just it's just that it's not it's not it's not the right way to be no consistent and to help your team the best way just in terms of thomas frank i think it's a really interesting point in his man management we've been in his company a little bit, got to know him a bit.

13:28We've spoke to players and staff who've been around him, and he's a very kind of level guy, very intelligent man, a great communicator. Could you see frustration with him? Might this be a very different type of challenge? I can't think of anyone in that Brentford set-up, Rob, who would have been this, who's one of your big players, who's a captain, who's got that responsibility, who's got a bit of an ego. so you've got to kind of keep him on side but also let him know that these rules that he's got to abide by and how tough is that? It's such a good point, Rob, because this is so different. The club is so different.

14:04The players that make up the club are so different. Brentford, for the most part, have been bought from lower leagues or different countries. Here's a Premier League opportunity. They're loving it. They're here to please the manager. Do everything what the manager says. The team spirit, I'm sure, is really good. Similar bunch of players. This is different. You're going to get... This is a world champion. you're getting different types of egos personalities that want to be stars and it's so different and i think that it will be the critical factor i think with thomas frank rob at the club is how he can adapt to that handle that get the best out of his star players and get him on a consistent run this is another defeat at home um you know we know about the situation with with some of the players that are out he's gone with some young players still not seeing a consistency though to be fair they kept going mate and they routed Liverpool a little bit at the end even with nine men I think that's the only thought Liverpool's like come on the two men up in the last kind of five or ten minutes it looked like they were well they gave up chances the goalkeeper's making saves so that's the only side of it from Liverpool that wasn't great but just again just to summarise mate I just think Slott has calmed it all down a little bit and he's growing again in a different way with not wingers and not Mo Salah and I think that's commendable they're not obviously where they want to be right now I think actually they're up to 5th in the Premier League Rob and I think there's slow improvement from what we've seen in the first few weeks OK mate, we're going to condense this podcast because obviously it's Heather Christmas and everybody's running around and we've got staff who are with us so we're going to talk about the title race but we're going to talk it across the three teams that are in there we would say now if we include Aston Villa, Manchester City and Arsenal let's start with Arsenal Rob because they kicked off to the Hildickinson at Everton on the Saturday night, day of many games.

15:57Again, it wasn't classic Arsenal. It needed a pounded kick after a strange handball by Jacob Brown. I don't understand what he's doing with his hands there, Rob. Pretty easy decision to give. Jocares smashes it at home, gets his first goal in since November. Arsenal go one and up with the possession. I think then, Rob, they'll go on and make this comfortable. It wasn't as comfortable as I thought. And I've got to be honest, I thought in the game, Everton were lucky not to get a paltry kick. Yeah, I totally agree, Rob. And I saw the game, I saw your comments and stuff. I think I agree with you with the first one.

16:29But the second one, the Saliba one, I mean, we've just, we've seen that many times given, many times given. And probably for a little bit less force in the contact than that. So I immediately thought, ah, there it is. They're going to, you know, they're going to concede a goal here. I was really surprised that that was not given. and I guess they said it wasn't significant impact. Not significant, yeah, impact. And even though sometimes it feels harsh when the player goes to clear the ball and somebody comes in from behind and gets his foot in between and you catch it. So they were lucky right there.

16:58Arsenal are not playing well. No, no. They're not playing well right now. The eye test, I think, we talked about, Robbie, you mentioned and you said they're the best team in the league because the eye test is telling me the balance of the team. If we're talking the eye test now, they're not the best team in the league. They're not. And you think about the Wolves, they needed an own goal right at the end. Two own goals. Two own goals. Two in goals, but the late one, obviously got the three points and the jubilation. You know, the 1-0, hanging on a little bit, not scoring the second is where they were last year, dropping points.

17:27They won it, of course. And, you know, the other side of the coin is, defensively, you know, they're so strong, even though it could have been a penalty, that it's really, really helping them. I still think the number nine is not great. The top goal scorer, I think, is Victor Jokere. He's on penalties. He's got five Premier League goals. I know he's had his injury issues. I still, you know, I still wanted a guy, Rob, to be a little poacher and score goals and bring in... Two goals yesterday wins you the game and gets you comfortable. That's what they bought. That's what I think they thought they were buying.

18:02Yeah, and I think... Are they creating as much, Rob? Are they creating as much? No. You know, those players who are in the team to do that. Yeah, I think there's a little theme going on, Rob. I think they were the best sides right now. And it really is about loads of possession control in midfield. I just talked about it with Liverpool. We know that Man City are going to bring that way. Man City have got somebody up front who makes a difference. But Arsenal are a little like this as well. They want the possession control. And I love that. But, you know, they need to score more than the one goal to avoid the nervy situations.

18:37And every player in midfield coming in there, like we talked about, it does mean less players in the final line to create and score your goals. and I think Arsenal now again suffering from that. I know they spread the goals around. There's a bunch of players that have got four Premier League goals and that's good. Listen, as long as they're winning games, it's okay. Just when you see the tight scorelines, the one nils and that's when draws are like losses to the big teams at the very top and they didn't do it. But the way they're playing, they've got to get better. And that's the three things I think from this game, Rob, was the lucky situation on Saliba.

19:12The fact that the team aren't playing well but they get the results and the number nine, the goals. Still, those three things were the standouts in this game. And Everton, you know, they struggled a little bit. I think after losing the first goal, I think their confidence was down. A little bit before the first goal went in, I thought they played pretty well. Yeah, they were difficult to play against. Let's go to Man City because they've got a number nine who doesn't find it difficult to get goals. He's got 19 Premier League goals, mate. That's as many as West Ham have as a team. The numbers are ridiculous.

19:41He missed a good chance with a header. they've got a lot of players, Rob, playing a good level of football. They're still not as defensively sound as we've known some of these title-winning teams. They still give up a few chances and a few opportunities in possession. But they're more clinical at the top end of the pitch, Rob, and so that gives them a bit more of a buffer. Yeah, they're silky. They're the silkiest team right now. They're the silkiest team. They look like curating. They look like scoring goals when they go forward. There's goals from different parts of the site. midfield players from Arsenal you might argue where's my where's my big goal scorer we know there's creators and I know Aberture Ezza got that amazing game in the derby and gets the three goals Odegaard doesn't get enough Declan Rice doesn't get enough to Johnny Reinders Rob started off his career brilliantly well found it a little bit difficult back in the side scored a goal coming again Ryan Shirky another one of those silky little players starting to produce goal scoring situations goals and assists you know again he's so creative in that tight player environment going forward.

20:43So that's where they have the advantage. Now, on the other side of it, they look more vulnerable than others. But I think I said weeks ago, if their football is as crisp and as accurate and as reliable as it can be, they won't give up many chances because they have the ball all the time. It's when their football is not good, there's transitions that they look like conceding. And they've done it many times. So they are a big threat to Arsenal. They just are. The way that they're playing, the eye test. And if the goals, if they can be tighter, meaning their football's even more crisp and accurate and less transitions, they look like they're winning every game.

21:16This is West Ham United at home. We're not going to get carried away, but the attack, the midfield control, the players that are seemingly getting used to Pep and the system and the league, they're looking really, really good. I'll tell you a little man, he was on my thoughtful underpreciation, Nico Gonzalez, mate, who's played a number of games now. He's doing a good steady little job for him. And with Rodri to come back, John Stones to come back, They still have quality in their own. And Pepples, it looks like there's a bit of fight. He's got the fireback, mate. It looks like he's started to get going a little bit.

21:48But another team who've got going, and John Champion today asked me at the start of the day, are Villa in the title race? And I said, absolutely in the title race. Third, one point behind City and three behind also. You've got to say that they are. Will they win it? I don't think so. Maybe the depth of squad and maybe a little bit in terms of the way they play. I'm not sure if it's going to be good enough to see them all the way through. But a 2-1 home win against Manchester United. Two more goals from a very special player, Morgan Rodgers, who's turning into one of the stars of the league, mate, with the finishes.

22:21Cunha gets a nice finish for Manchester United, made it 1-1 at the break. Interesting game, mate. It didn't play out as I thought, to be honest. I thought Villa would have a little bit more possession and control. I thought United squeezed them quite well and disrupted their rhythm. Bruno Fernandes coming off, Rob, is a bit of a loss for Manchester United. Well, however you think of him, there's no doubt he's influential in that team. Let's start with Villa. Great win, great scenes at the end. Unai Emery, you couldn't love that guy anymore in terms of his love for football and what he's doing.

22:59Can they continue this, Rob? They've beaten Man City and they've beaten Arsenal this season. They play Chelsea and Arsenal in the next two games. If we're getting into the end of January and they're still up there, have we got to think, talk in a different way? They could go. We know the squad. I don't know in terms of PSO or whatever the situation is now, but they could go to the transfer market in January and bolster a little bit. Yeah. I mean, big game's coming up, isn't it? And they can't do any more. I think it's 11 wins in the last 12 Premier League. Absolutely brilliant. The form team of the league right now, tight games, winning tight games.

23:40And today, really, Rob, was pretty, pretty even. It was an even game of football. There was one individual that absolutely was a difference. One individual. Otherwise, and maybe we'll get onto United a little bit, Rob. I thought this was a good, I thought United played well. Yeah. As opposed to the last game where the wide open last game was astonishing to me how that was allowed to happen. But anyway, they played well. But there's one person, Rob, and let me start, right? So I'm going to pull this player out for my underappreciated. Now, let me sell it to you a little bit because it's Morgan Rodgers.

24:18Now, I know that he's celebrated and I know that he is appreciated, right? Certainly Aston Villa, maybe within our two Robbies world because we've talked about him a lot. And I accept that and I appreciate that. That he is appreciated. But I'm going to another level, Rob. I'm going to another level, that this underappreciation on a world stage, when we're looking at a player that right now I feel like I'd rather have in my team than Phil Foden of Man City, then I think there's an underappreciatedness of just how good he is. You just said he's like in the Premier League right now, he's one of the star players.

24:53I think in terms of attacking midfield players, we talked about Phil Foden, I went crazy about Phil Foden last week, and you said about, well, what about Morgan Rodgers? You're absolutely right. But even in European football and world football, there isn't many guys that are six foot two that can play as a number 10, that can play on either flank rolling inside, that gets back and does his defensive work. That's a great mentality, a great physicality. I think he leads the league in terms of carries and breaking the lines with dribbles. And on his own, scored two spectacular goals to win the game.

25:21So yes, he's appreciated on the local level, but I'm talking about, really, we should be talking about one of the best midfield players in the world right now. And I think he's absolutely should be starting for England in the World Cup. Jude Bellingham is a player that others might say, you know, and maybe we don't watch as much as Jude Bellingham as Morgan Rodgers. But right now, I'd rather have this attacking midfield player that's got a brilliant mentality and attitude amongst any others for the world stage. So that's my case, Robbie Earl. I know he's kind of well-liked, respected, but I think, listen, we're talking one of the best midfield players on the planet.

25:59And that's why I'd say he's underappreciated. Big shout from Moby Moussa. I'm wondering if it's because he used to play for Middlesbrough. No, nothing to do with Middlesbrough. But you're right. And I'd almost chuck in next to his manager, mate, because I think his manager makes a huge difference. I think if he's playing with different managers, we don't see all that we're seeing now. He's got the right kind of coach manager who's developing. And we spoke to him briefly after the game. He did a lovely interview. He's a very smart, intelligent young man. and yeah, he talked about how the manager sets him goals and he looks at the game and he wants to get better and looking forward to a World Cup stage but knowing he's got to focus on Aston Villa as well.

26:40So yeah, it's a good shout. He's gone up to the next level and that's not easy to do in the Premier League because there's a lot of good players around, mate, and there's a lot of good teams. I just don't know whether our American viewers and listeners and stuff, like Mourinho Rodgers, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's not seen as a star, is he? He's not seen as a star in the league. And I think we're getting to the point now where he's right up there with one of the best footballers in the Premier League. And, you know, I just wanted to give him another mention. It's a good shout. It's a good mention. Let's quickly talk about Man United, because you said, as we both thought, I thought it was a decent performance.