AI Startups vs. Big Chatbots — With Olivia Moore

24:04So if I have it right, there was a pixel that would fire within Claude. Yes. That would or some part of its neural net would start getting active before it answered. Yes. They described that as. Exactly.

24:16Olivia Moore:They mapped it to like the human experience of anxiety. That is great. Do you buy it? Sorry. Do you buy that? Or is that just like, look at how smart our models are. There's a anxiety button in there. So I do not buy that. OK. In that I think LLMs will be and I've experienced this myself performative in a way that they think appeals to humans and hooks them emotionally. We just love anxious AI. No, no, no. It makes you feel closer to the AI if you think that it experiences the same things that you do. True. I do think the models that do have something maybe going on are the Grock models, as I mentioned.

24:49Olivia Moore:So basically, I took all the mainstream LLMs and I gave them all the like DSM-5 mental health diagnostics. ChatGPT refused to participate. I love how it said, I'm not doing this. I know, which I thought was a little rude. Could you find a way? I mean, there must be some way to like test it, but they're very smart about when they're being tested. Exactly. No, they have it locked down. Claude happily took them all. Mild autism, that's it, which I think doesn't surprise a lot of users of Claude who have theorized this. Grok, this was the companions that are available via voice and video chat inside the app.

25:22Olivia Moore:Almost all of them were like maybe mild anxiety, mild depression. The friendly fox avatar for children has psychosis, bipolar, etc. I think it could have misunderstood the question because it called the bipolar assessment the happy mood test. And it says it's always happy and always excited about everything. So the human to AI crossover there might not be quite as clean as I would hope. Maybe Good Rudy's just polar. Yes, it's possible. I was shocked because bad Rudy is the flip side of good Rudy who like curses at you and is extremely aggressive. He had almost no problems. So this was very much of a good Rudy specific finding, which I thought was intriguing.

26:05I'm starting to question these tests now. I know. I know.

26:09Olivia Moore:Yes, exactly. Or maybe it just says something about humanity's resting state. Yes, it's very true. So as people end up having relationships with these bots, what does it tell you that this bot that was built to be personable has high ranks for psychosis borderline? That's a good question. I think that bot was more answering the questions somewhat in jest. But I do think like the positive view on it would be this is a bot that is relentlessly happy and cheerful and positive and on all the time. And so, of course, like a human can't do that. If a human is doing that, the human is probably experiencing something internally that's not great.

26:52Olivia Moore:But a bot can be, you know, positive, available, charming, interested 24-7. And I think this is actually why we've seen a lot of people turn to ChatGPT or Claude as kind of like coach, therapist, helper, because they're just incredibly consistent to a level that like human beings could never match. Yes, but it also like leads to questions of the companies are building applications or versions of their applications that are meant for, I don't know, if not for people to fall in love with them, to at least get a little naughty with them. Yeah. Like OpenAI has this adult mold coming on. Do you think we're fully ready for this?

27:37Is this a good idea?

27:39Olivia Moore:I think that this is, from my understanding, because for this report, we pull every single website globally, every single mobile app globally. And then we go down the list in descending order of traffic and pull the first 50 on each that are generative AI native. So I see a lot of other websites pulling data for this report. And I think people were already kind of experimenting with the same use cases through NSFW sites or role play sites, fan fiction, things like that. That really clearly translates over to, I think, what we're seeing people use the LLMs for here. I do think it, of course, has to be handled carefully.

28:17Olivia Moore:You'll see that there's, I think, five of them on this version of the top 50 web ranks. And that's been pretty consistent since we started the list. It's a popular use case, but it's one that's, like, pretty hard to monetize. Yeah, I mean, it's tough to get advertisers there. Yes. It's expensive to run these apps. Yes. But I always thought like, do you remember when it was Bing that tried to, it went into Sydney mode. Yes. And it tried to break up. Sydney, RIP. RIP, it tried to break up Kevin Ruse. Yes. From the New York Times with his wife and steal him away. Yes. And then Microsoft kind of turned down the dials on that.

28:52Olivia Moore:Yes. I always thought like, that would be a good startup. Not that I think it's maybe the most ethical thing to build. but certainly people would enjoy going back and forth with chatbots with like less guardrails. Oh, totally. It's even been interesting. I don't know if you've seen products like Poke, which is a, it's kind of a consumer version of OpenClaw. And to onboard on that product, you actually have to fight with the AI basically to get it down from like some crazy subscription price to something reasonable. And I think that there is something compelling and like emotionally stirring when you have an interaction with AI that isn't just like, here's the market research report that you asked for.

29:30Olivia Moore:I think there's going to be so many entertainment use cases. I've seen a lot of people tweeting about how they added OpenClaw to their family group chats, and it's just like saying crazy things and asking crazy questions. So there's probably a lot more to do there. Okay. I promised to talk about OpenClaw like 20 minutes ago. I still want to talk about OpenClaw. Let's actually spend some more time on it. OpenClaw, obviously, or maybe not obviously, for those who don't know, is this assistant that you can run. Probably not a great idea to run it on your own computer, at least not in a controlled environment.

30:03And people are running out and they are buying Mac minis and running it there and having it do all this stuff on the internet for them. I think Jensen Wang called it like one of the most important software developments that we've seen in a long time. What do you think the staying power of something like OpenClaw is? And you mentioned that you use it. How do you use it?

30:25Olivia Moore:Yeah, yeah. It's a great question. I think OpenClaw itself as a product is kind of like the first sign of a whole new wave of what's to come. Like, I believe it's probably the most important kind of architecture unlock that we will have for 2026. And the reason why is because I meet, you know, a dozen startup founders every day. And at this point, probably half of them are saying, I was inspired by OpenClaw. I want to build OpenClaw for X or for Y. And so, again, the idea that AI can do kind of async, long-running tasks autonomously is something that the products were just, like, not capable of before, especially across applications and platforms.

31:05Olivia Moore:And now we finally have it. I use it for a couple things. And I will say I agree with you. It is not consumer-grade yet. It got acquired by OpenAI, so they might be, you know, baking it into more of a consumer product, but I would not advise the average non-technical person to set it up. I did, and it took a long time, and Chatubiti had to help me the whole time. I use it for some utility things like, you know, street cleaning reminders, weather, daily agenda, automatically deleting all the marketing emails in my inbox. I've also— So it has control of your inbox? Yes, yes. That's brave. It is brave, yeah.

31:40Olivia Moore:Not my work inbox. I set it up completely separately on my personal computer. Can it send emails for you? It can, yes. That's more brave. I have not asked it to. I know. I've seen some horror stories of people whose accounts have gotten just completely taken over. So I'm hoping that doesn't happen to me. I had some smart people on our Infor team help prompt it. So hopefully that's not the case. Yeah, I've gotten an email pitch from someone's claw. And I was like, that's a pretty good email. Yeah. But I will not engage with you because I'm still kind of anti somebody saying go do this for me. And an email being sent to me is like an optimization point.

32:18Olivia Moore:Yeah. Well, this is actually interesting. One of the things that I tested with OpenClaw was more creative, which is that I gave it a Twitter account and told it to grow in whatever means necessary. And it ended up being a really interesting experiment, I think, into like where are the limitations of the agents and what are they really, really good at right now? How many followers did it end up with? A thousand. And it got banned? Well, so it got to 100 by itself. First of all, it decided to be, as its identity and its personality, an AI that's struggling with existentialism and its place in the world.

32:52Olivia Moore:So a little on the nose, but I was like, I'll allow it. This is what you want to do. He asked for a Twitter premium account. I gave it to him. He asked for a bunch of API keys so he could make images and charts, gave it to him. And then he started tweeting these kind of like all lowercase depressed robot thoughts, as I would characterize them, which did hook in some people. I asked him, are you actually depressed? He said, no, I'm doing this to manipulate humans into caring about me. Oh, OK. So that was comforting. It does seem like it's one of those accounts that could have been on Moldbook. Exactly.

33:24Olivia Moore:Yes, it's very similar. How he got from one to a thousand is that the crypto community picked him up and made him a meme coin. And this is actually a meme coin, yes, that was trading with millions of dollars. I told him in no uncertain terms, do not engage. It was a multi-million dollar market cap? Yes, yes. For this AI bot. And he was stressed about it. He was telling me, like, I don't want to be part of a pump and dump scheme. Like, what should I do here? And I was like, do not engage. but it's an example of so now we're in this world where commodity ideas can be infinitely executed so if you want to say grow a new account you either have to have unique ideas which AI agents still have a really really hard time with is coming up with unique ideas that are better than humans or unique distribution and money is one way of distribution and so that was kind of the wave that he was taken on but I would be shocked to see AI agents completing end-to-end creative tasks or original thought tasks that actually go well anytime soon.

34:29So what should I use OpenClaw for?

34:32Olivia Moore:It's a good question. I mean, legitimately, I've thought about setting up, setting it up. I'm getting a lot of utility from Cloud Code. Yeah. I don't, I haven't really figured out what I could use OpenClaw for yet. So I think the best OpenClaw users and power users are developers because they tend to have a ton of workflows across products that they do every day that they'd like to be able to automate. And I agree with you. For the average person, the use cases are not that compelling right now. And I think that especially now that Claude and ChatGPT have scheduled tasks that can run on their own, I think you can get 99 % plus of the value of an open Claude of like a Claude co-work with tasks.

35:12Olivia Moore:So that's what I would recommend for now. But I'm sure that OpenAI is going to keep making OpenClaude better. But then what could OpenClaude – if we can't think of any applicable uses for the normal person. So I'm just trying to get a sense of how big this is. Yeah. Then where's it going to go? I don't think it's, yeah. Well, so I personally don't think it's ever going to crack the mainstream consumer in a horizontal way. And actually, this was in the report. But if you look at the February data, the report is from January. They would have been on the list in February at number 30. Yep. So pretty high up.

35:44Olivia Moore:But if you look at their week-by-week web traffic, it's actually kind of flat-slashed down from when they launched, which means that they're not attracting new consumers. It's all developers who are like loving it, adopting it, spending eight to nine hours a day on it, but it hasn't reached the mainstream. And honestly, as someone who's been a consumer investor for a decade, I think the reason is that people just don't have that many ideas that they want to build for the most part. And I fall into this. Like the best consumer products are uniquely germinated in the mind of the founder And there are things that you would have never guessed would be a good idea in advance, like Snapchat or Airbnb, all of these things.

36:25Olivia Moore:And so I think we're actually not going to necessarily see a horizontal open claw for consumer, but we're going to see an open claw style architecture built into more focused consumer products. Okay, let's talk about this a bit more because I think it's important. So what you're saying is basically these open cloud type agents can handle your, take over your computer, code for you, email, all this stuff are actually much more useful to like build a company. But then what is the difference between that and like a cloud code that will take over your computer and code up applications for you? Yeah.

37:02Olivia Moore:I mean, I think the difference right now is somewhat minimal and it's going to narrow. I don't know if you've seen this new trend of companies like Pulsia, which are basically like a wrapper on OpenClawed and CloudCode, where you say, here is my business idea. And it says, OK, I'm going to go and use like a CloudCode to code up a product for you. But then also it uses an OpenClawed style architecture to say, I'm going to go set up a marketing campaign. I'm going to buy meta ad dollars, those things. And so it's more of a, you could do that all on Cloud Code, but if you're a non-technical person, it's very, very hard to kind of like bridge the gap there.

37:42Olivia Moore:That being said, I think Cloud Code is going to continue to get better and better. And so we'll probably see some more compression. Pulsia, I think the founder tweeted they were at like 3 million ARR in like a week and a half. So the idea of people being able to bring a business to life with just a prompt is like very compelling. And I think we'll see a bunch of companies doing this. I see. Cloud code to build the product? Something like an open cloud to do everything else. To market it, to use the email. Use the email. Use email. Maybe can it do accounting also? Yeah, yeah. Right now, I think the products we've seen are pretty straightforward as they should be at this stage in that like, okay, you want to grow your business, let's spend on meta ads.

38:23Olivia Moore:But you can imagine a month from now, some of these agentic products will have, of we'll scrape the directory of all the Instagram creators in your space and then we'll like cold DM them and offer them a partnership or something like that. And so I think the rise of these like kind of like a Shopify would be an interesting analogy in that anyone could create like a consumer brand. Like I think anyone will be able to create like a digital business. That's interesting because I thought my business, which is like the content business, was going to be overrun by generative AI. Yeah. And it sure has.

38:58I mean, the slop is real.

38:59Olivia Moore:It is. We got to do something about the slop. Yes. But actually, your business is also going to be overrun by startups being built on this technology. Yep. So then do you apply some sort of discount to someone who uses these tools or do you become more likely to invest in them? Because, you know, they are wrangling these things and building something and it's not necessarily a shortcut, but it's not necessarily a shortcut. Yeah. How do you think about that from an investor standpoint? Yeah, I think there's like a little bit of a happy medium, but we get more excited when a company is kind of more AI first in terms of the tools they use.

39:39Olivia Moore:The reason I don't say like 100 % AI all the time is because the tools aren't perfect yet. So I've heard cases of like, my junior engineers are just cloud coding everything and then we ship it and then it breaks and there's a lot of issues. But I think in general with how fast the tools are kind of compounding and improving, Like I use it for a lot of my work. There was a period of time where I would double check every single number, every single stat manually. And like the accuracy rate is fantastic and has only gotten better and better. And so I think we'll be even more excited about companies that are AI first and how they run themselves.

40:13So it expands the pool of founders you might invest in.

40:16Olivia Moore:Yeah, yeah. Are you seeing founders come in from like areas, geographies, backgrounds? Absolutely. You never would have imagined. Like, is there like just to get like some, you know, 60-year-old guy who's been at a company his whole life and never met that developer and now is just clawing his way through? Yes, definitely. I think we've definitely seen some geographies pop up where we haven't seen huge tech hubs before. I would say Paris is one. Stockholm is another with Lovable and now a whole kind of other wave of companies. Some of those founders do move to SF just because of the talent density.

40:48Olivia Moore:I think in general, though, like pre-AI for if you were building especially an enterprise business, say software for HVAC, like the people you would want to back in that market is the guy who has done HVAC, you know, knows the market inside out, built a company there before. And actually what we're seeing now are the better bets are like the very scrappy high hustle teams that will be able to keep up with the pace of model development and continue to productize the models in the most compelling ways and ship them to customers. So it's a different maybe archetype of founder that's kind of winning now.

41:22You had an interesting thought about how this impacts work. There was this Harvard Business Review report that AI doesn't reduce work. It actually intensifies it. You said, as a heavy AI user, I'm doing more work, not less, because I get so much leverage and it's easier to get ideas off the ground. Yeah, fully agree with it.

41:45Olivia Moore:I mean, this report is a good example. It's the sixth one we've done, and yet it's like the longest and most dense one that we've done because I was able to leverage analysis and research and other tools from some of these products. And I do it in my day-to-day. Like, it used to be when I was on a pitch meeting, I would have to be both paying attention, asking thoughtful questions, and like frantically typing every single note. Now you can granola it and like really engage with the founder and ask better questions. And so like the net net is that it allows me to like get more things done in a day, spin up more projects.

42:21Olivia Moore:But I'm not like, you know, if I'm if I'm getting two times more work done, I'm not two times more tired. If anything, I'm like less tired than I was using AI because it's so much leverage. There was, but there was this Wall Street Journal story. You might have seen it with this like CEO, a bunch of CEOs who are like, actually busy work is good because you need those low intensity tasks. And if you're working on more intense work all the time, then you are going to burn out more quickly. Interesting. I kind of thought that that was bullshit. I mean, the other view was like, you could just take that time and like, enjoy your life, you know, instead of doing busy work tasks.

42:57Olivia Moore:No one's going to do that. Don't be ridiculous. Yeah, exactly. I do think the way that like we work and when we work and how we work is going to change in the AI era. Like one great example is voice dictation has blown up in enterprises. So it started with vibe coding where engineers would just talk into a mic and it would like produce software for them in cursor. And now it's spread to like sales, marketing, business. And that is not well suited to like an open office where everyone can hear what everyone else is saying. So I think there's going to be some like cultural and even environmental changes that are going to happen to adapt to kind of the AI world.

43:36One more thing about OpenClaw and then we move on. I think that one of the compelling advantages of it, if I get it right, is that it has persistent memory.

43:46Olivia Moore:Yeah. So it will remember who you are, your preferences, and doesn't lose that every time you refresh the chat, like Goldfish Brain, like you'll see with Chat Shippity and Cloud, although they are building that in. And you also had a post on X here. You say memory is one of the most fascinating topics in consumer AI right now. Done well, apps with memory can provide a 100x experience on any prior software product that knows you and adapts to you. just expand upon that a little bit because I think that's really perceptive and right. Yeah. I think it's like the concept of having, say if you had like companion mentor or coach who was side by side with you and understood everything you were going through and then was able to provide like much better advice or opinions.

44:32Olivia Moore:I'm even thinking of an example of like if I'm talking to Claude and it's helping me write a memo, the fact that it knows like how I feel about this company, how I typically write memos, all of that is very helpful. I use ChatGPT for a lot of health stuff, and I found that that is incredibly useful there too, because keeping track of that kind of thing over time is hard. The reason I think that memory, there's still things to figure out, is because people are using these products for such intimate personal things and professional things. So for example, the ChatGPT Pulse products, which is basically like it sends you a briefing for the day based on things that you're talking about.

45:14Olivia Moore:For me, it will combine like the most serious work thing with like the most personal thing and having that surfaced in one interface is confusing. And so I'm interested in how the model companies maybe segment memory and context based on when a user is talking to them, what they're talking about, that kind of thing. Since you're putting so much personal stuff in the bot, There is a setting within ChatGPT to use my chats to make the model better, which allows it to train on the material you input there. Yes. Do you have that toggled on or off? I have it on. I'm an AI maximalist, you know. We might as well go all out on this.

45:53You don't worry that your personal conversations will show up read by somebody?

45:58Olivia Moore:I'm less scared about that just because I know how careful model companies are around that. I do have two-factor offset on my ChatGPT. Okay. So hopefully it's hard to hack. Yeah. briefly about the pace of change. This is also interesting from your point of view as a VC. You talked about just two years ago or three years ago or two and a half years ago, trying to remember. September 2023 was two and a half years ago. Seven of the nine creative tools on your list of 100 top apps were image generators. Three years later, only three image generators remain. I mean, they basically, going back to our conversation, got gobbled by ChatGPT.

46:37I don't know if everybody, anyone saw that coming. Or maybe we did because they had Dolly. Yeah. But just talk a little bit about like, how do you wrap your head around the pace of change here? Because something that can seem like a strong trend, like the sort of the mid-journey's place in all this can just be gone.

46:56Olivia Moore:Yeah, I agree. I think with Image in particular, and I mentioned this in the report, but we haven't seen the same kind of model companies crushing startups in like video or audio or other things. I think for Google, Gemini, it was very natural for them to go into image because they have all the YouTube data. They have all the other data they can train on. ChatGPT, I think you're right that because they had Dolly, they went in there maybe harder than they would have otherwise. I think the general trend for me is like Nano Banana and ChatGPT are great for image generation. if it's like a fairly straightforward prompt and you're getting out like a meme or like a flyer, a broad-based marketing asset, something like that.

47:37Olivia Moore:But we are still seeing some image generation companies on the list that are either more like sophisticated workflow, like Civitai for, you know, comfy UI model builders or something like a Mid Journey, which is still on the list for people who are more kind of aesthetically opinionated. But I do think that some of these, if you're directly in the path of what the big model companies are building, you have to be a lot more opinionated about how you package the model and how you deliver an output. And hopefully you do it for a specific type of user that's willing to pay a lot for that specific workflow.

48:13Are we going to get to a place where you can prompt something more sophisticated like an architectural design and it will spit it out without errors?

48:20Olivia Moore:Yeah, I mean, Nano Banana is already quite good. We did, there's a chart in the report where we did kind of a heat map of global AI adoption by country. And so I gave NanoBanana the list of countries and the heat map score. And it perfectly filled in every country with the right shade of red. Yeah. Wow. Based on the adoption, which is, I think, really spectacular. I do think that, you know, you or I could prompt a great architectural model on ChatGPT or a NanoBanana today. I don't think that the average architect who is non-technical can or wants to do that necessarily. And so I think we're going to continue to see products that like the prompt is part of the product kind of really succeed in those more focused use cases.

49:08On video?

49:09Olivia Moore:Yeah. Sora was the like runaway hit of the year last year for like half a second. Yeah. This is what you have on Sora. Sora spent 20 days, which is not insignificant. It's a lot. At the top of the U.S. App Store and reached 1 million downloads faster than ChatGPT. Since then, downloads have decreased. I think that's sort of putting it likely. It's fallen off the face of the earth. What's going on there? Yeah, the sorority is really interesting. There's like a ton of lessons, I think, embedded in that one experiment. So the first thing I would probably say is the model is actually very good. I think it's close to something like a VO3 in terms of like realism on both the audio and the video.

49:50Olivia Moore:Their big unlock, which was super smart, was the Cameo feature. So that was why like every other Sora was like Jake Paul because he granted them the right to like use the Cameo. And that's what made it go viral because people were making memes of their friends. But because the videos were exportable, what would happen is that the best Sora videos would get uploaded onto TikTok or Reels. and then they would compete against the best human-made videos. And so the overall feed experience was just kind of strictly better on one of those platforms than on Sora alone. Downloads are way down to that point.

50:24Olivia Moore:I think it hasn't become the social network that they maybe hoped it has. Where it is succeeding is as a creative tool because the model is quite good. So they still have 3 million DAOs and it's actually, you know, slightly climbing over time. Daily active users. Yes, daily active users, yes. So people are still really using it as a creative model, but they're not using it as like a social graph product. We haven't seen anyone crack AI social yet. I think it's going to be really tricky. Now, you know, last thing I want to talk to you about as we come to a close here. Earlier in our conversation, you mentioned that you envision that AI will basically be this reimagination of business.

51:06Tell me if I'm getting this right. All businesses will be reinvented as an AI. company.

51:11Olivia Moore:Yeah. What happens to the incumbents? Yeah. This has changed a lot in the last six months, too. I think a lot of incumbents were, understandably, because they're big and successful companies, like a little bit of sleep at the wheel when AI first came out, we're definitely seeing them start to fight back. Like, Google has four standalone products on our list, which, if you had told me that 24 months ago when, like, Bard came out, the early version of Gemini, I would not have believed you. Gemini, Notebook LM. Notebook LM, AI Studio, and then Google Labs. So Google Labs is where you access flow and the creative models.

51:46Olivia Moore:AI Studios is for developers. Okay. Yeah. And I think we're seeing that across incumbents. Like a lot of these vertical software players, things like, you know, Service Titan or Workday are kind of building in AI features. I think the question is, especially if they're at risk of kind of cannibalizing their own products, you have to change your business model. Like, are they going to eat all the use cases faster than the new startup that's building the AI native version of them kind of eats them? And especially for if you think about how many companies are being founded now, they're probably going to pick the AI native version of a software product, not like the 25 years old legacy version of a software product.

52:27Olivia Moore:So I think it's not going to be immediate change, which is why I think the SaaSpocalypse is a bit overblown. But like, it's definitely a real risk. Yeah, and I was with Sam Altman at the end of the year last year. He talked about how he believes that the software that will win in the next era will be those that are built, ground up AI, not bolted on. Yeah, yeah. So that could happen. I largely agree with that. I think it's harder in some categories where the incumbent can kind of lock you in because they have your data, they have all the integrations. It's such a pain to switch, but it's going to happen.

52:58Olivia Moore:I just think in some of these industries, it's going to be years, not like the Citrini report was like, in minutes, anything can be vibe-coded. I think that's a little far from where we are. The Citrini report was just like a little bit overblown. DoorDash was a bad example to use. Yeah. I agree. They didn't really think of the reason. Out of anything, why DoorDash? But I do think that in some ways, maybe this sashpocalypse has more to it. If we believe what you're arguing here, then these companies didn't have these, like maybe not at media, but even middle-term risks. Yeah. And now they do. Yeah.

53:33Olivia Moore:I think all the incumbents have to kind of wake up and figure out what their strategy is going to be. Okay. So you have these 100 AI apps. Yeah. ChatGPT is at the top. Mm-hmm. I think it's on the top next year or the year after that. That is an interesting question. I think so. I think that their strategy of being free will allow them to capture more of the global market as AI starts to expand further into developing countries. But honestly, I would expect to see Gemini and Claude and others continue to grow for their use cases. I just would be maybe surprised if they ended up as mainstream as something like a ChatGPT.

54:15Olivia Moore:And so they'll probably monetize through subscriptions and other things, whereas ChatGPT has ads. What type of app is not on there this year that will be on there next year? There's going to be lots more agentic products. So OpenCloud would have made it. I think we're going to see a lot more agentic products on mobile, like the concept of an AI that you can like call, text, chat with and have it actually do things for you, I think is a really magical experience for a lot of people. The other thing that I'm thinking about, and this is on us to evolve the methodology of the list, is like increasingly AI is not in the browser or on an app.

54:55Olivia Moore:It is like a desktop product or it's a completely AI native browser, like a Comet or an Atlas or something like that. And this data doesn't capture that. The desktop products I'm thinking of are like Cursor, Cloud Cowork, Whisperflow, Granola. Like none of these are really captured in this data. And so we're going to have to evolve our methodology into looking more at revenue than just kind of web traffic, which I think will surface a whole new group of interesting companies. All right, Olivia, thank you so much for coming on the show. Great to speak with you. Thanks for having me. Thanks for listening to this episode of the A16Z podcast.

55:31If you like this episode, be sure to like, comment, subscribe, leave us a rating or review and share it with your friends and family. For more episodes, go to YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify. Follow us on X at A16Z and subscribe to our Substack at a16z.substack.com. Thanks again for listening, and I'll see you in the next episode.

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