An Arsenal Night For The Ages

18:38Elliot:You have to manage their schoolwork at the same time. Max, he's got to manage his agents at the same time and I'm sure he's got an inner circle now protecting him. and I'm looking at them and I'm looking at them enjoying this moment and I'm thinking, wow, this must be so, so special. And Elliot, I don't mind saying, I'm not saying them, but I look around me in that ground and there was tears everywhere, mate. There were people out of, you were there at Bournemouth, it's very similar. But I actually think it might have been a bit better because it feels we're closer to something.

19:12Max Dowman:It feels bigger for two reasons. And granted, it wasn't as late, but I think one is it feels more like we're going to do it now even than then, although then it did feel a bit that way. This is just a little later in the season and just a little bit more of a gap. And then two, this feels like the dawn and the announcement of a career that we've all seen. I don't want to say seen coming, but we've heard it might be coming. And that adds a layer to it as well. And then, of course, City dropping points later in the night. I want to be careful how I say this, But look, I feel very privileged every time I'm at the Emirates, and I got to see a late winner against Wolves.

19:50Max Dowman:I suspect this was better. I would have traded it. I'm just kidding. Well, a few things. So let's talk about the goal that he scored. Well, yeah, we'll talk about the goal he scores. Then we'll come back. We can talk about the goal he creates and Capier and Jokers' role in that moment. But let's start from the end. I think there's going to be some people who in bad faith will look at that and say, well, he walks it into an empty net. but the header down don't worry about them football is not for them but the header down to burst past is so intelligent and then he beats another man it reminded me a little bit of Martinelli's announcement goal against Chelsea just a little bit running end to end but the pace is so surprising with him he has an ability to create that extra yard which he said so you want to walk me through the goal, his role in it the composure, the celebration, every last little lick of detail about that goal.

20:49Elliot:Yeah, so in the previous move beforehand, I think Gabriel got mixed up with Pincapi, I believe, and they went to clear it and it got headed out for a corner. You're thinking, oh no, here we go. You know, this is it. Because Everton were really decent set pieces. And then the corner comes in. And I think Victor Jokeres flung himself at that near post. I mean, that's a major moment that, you know, to really get there, not to make sure that we get first contact. And it flies up into the air. And Mark nearly does. He's improved in the air, to be fair to him. But if you watch Max behind him, sort of almost reading where the header's going to go, I think that's really important.

21:30Elliot:Read the drop of the ball. He reads the drop of the ball. And from then on in, it's man on man, right? And then I watched a Sunday supplement on Sunday morning, and the girl Delaney was saying that the chat inside the club was it was the header that they were all really impressed with you know to head it and then take

21:49Max Dowman:him head it down to himself and take the burst yeah that was the part that stood out to me

21:53Elliot:really impressive and then of course now he then he goes he goes left foot to right foot and comes inside and this is a bit that you can when you get a chance to see him up close you will see that he's like he's on rails he's like a formula one car going around the corner and he's on rails and then defenders in the grass right and and then just by note seeing how that he can move you're thinking he's going to score and there's nothing better than a goal you can see coming you know but it's like Kai Havertz's goal and he goes around the key field you know he's coming well this is even better because as he's gone around the last defender any opponent he's got to worry about is Martinelli doing something stupid right fouling and sort of thing and he goes through and scores and the limbs in that ground Elliot the limbs mate was everywhere particularly North Bank because I had a view of that just incredible celebration it goes to the corner, the Declan Rice corner in there and yeah, it was wonderful and I feel very very honoured to be in the ground to share that, I think we're going to talk about this for many many years I think we need to conclude this earlier though, with winning something

23:07Max Dowman:Yeah, I mean of course and they got to go do it, but like the way the team celebrated that goal too. You can tell the admiration they must all have for him and how well liked he must be because like that wasn't the winner. The winner was scored earlier by Victor Jokeres. That was the icing on the cake, but the celebrations were unbridled and the way he was mobbed, I loved it. Ben White seemed to be particularly all over him and very close to him, which is great to see because it's the night when Ben White doesn't get off the bench. My guess is he's just not fit enough, but Mikel chose Mascara instead of Ben White.

23:41Max Dowman:He wasn't sitting there with a, you know, a sob, what's the word I'm looking for, sulk on. He was out there celebrating wildly. By the way, so was Miles Lewis Skelly, who fought his way through the crowd to go celebrate with his mate, Max. So I loved the camaraderie that was shown there in that moment.

24:00Elliot:There is a feeling of they're all in on this year. They're all in. They know that next year is different, right? People have been talking to agents, et cetera, and seeing where they fit. and is there a better role for them elsewhere to get more time and more minutes? I'm a big believer in our buying strategy last year becomes the start of our selling strategy this year. And then we'll go again and we'll renew. And so don't worry about those players who are not playing. I don't see any sad faces anywhere. And I would tell you if I did earlier. I look at that bench all the time. I can see when a bad pass goes wrong and I can see the manager's reactions because that's what I do.

24:35Elliot:I study him, I study the game, I study him. I know what he likes and I know yesterday I thought he was ultra positive on everything that we tried to do, all our intentions, he was right behind it. A bad pass, a bad pass. It's almost like he was doing it not just for the players, but also I think he's sending a message to the crowd that's behind him that obviously it can get a bit angsty in that side of the ground. It's not super close to the press box, but on that side, press box is near the away dugout. But that side, that's the rhythm. That's what he hears closely. you can hear the chowls you can hear the you can hear the the noises and it's almost like he was talking to them so if a bad pass comes along he was like clapping it come on let's go again let's go again let's go again

25:19Clive:I thought yeah

25:20Elliot:and when you have a in ground experience I don't want to speak for everybody but ever since that Manchester United game I felt that the ground had been more positive I watched it back a little bit this morning and there were some moments in the second half when Ray nearly gave the ball away before he went long that led to the throws led to the the goal i can hear the crowd getting angsty i thought oh i didn't sense that but i can understand now for tv watchers when you're watching it you're thinking and you listen to the commentary and you can almost create this vision of what's actually happening i can only tell you what i was feeling in that ground and it felt incredibly supportive really did feel supportive and And I tell you now, May night, it didn't feel supportive.

26:05Elliot:It felt tense. And we played tense. It's almost since that Wolves game, the message has gone in and it feels different there. I can't speak my truth, mate.

26:14Max Dowman:No, because just to back up what you're saying, I felt it against Chelsea too. That Chelsea performance was not good after they went down to 10 men and we were under the cosh for a lot of it. But unlike the Wolves home game where I felt the crowd was pissed off and frustrated with the Arsenal performance, the Chelsea performance felt like we're here to help you get this over the line. And I think there was more of that last night as well. We'll come back to some more Max stuff. One thing that I thought was hilarious, by the way, just sort of the unbridled joy of a teenager. When Jokras scores his goal, we almost had a fatality because Max Talman choked him out.

26:48Max Dowman:I was like, all right, mate, I get that you're happy, but can you not choke out our striker, please?

26:54Elliot:I think it's interesting what you said earlier about him not being fearful. And I do think, it's almost in my head, I need to articulate it better and more accurately, but there is some legacy scarring in this team. But some of the newer players and the younger players don't have it. And some of our absolute heroes of yesteryear, maybe are, particularly in midfield and attack, maybe, you know, I'm going to say, I include Mikai Saka in that, are maybe feeling the pressure of this moment. because it's...

27:26Max Dowman:I have to deliver it. Yeah. It's my job to deliver this after multiple seasons of not being able to.

27:32Elliot:Exactly. Whereas I think some of these younger players are doing, what Eze is doing, what Madaweke is doing, even Jokic, Jokic, mate. I'm not sure he's got an emotional bone in his body. He's just very cold and he's very much right next shot, next pass. I ain't got the ball, so what? I'll wait for the next one. I'll make another run. There's no like... There's just no... There's nothing there. You know what I mean? He doesn't care. There's an iconic video

27:55Max Dowman:of him walking down a hallway for sporting, holding the trophy over his shoulder and a flag over his shoulder, and he's walking like he's just having a walk through the park and he couldn't care less.

28:04Elliot:Not only by the way, he doesn't care. He'll take a shot on his wrong foot. He'll cross it. He'll take another shot. He'll beat another man. He doesn't care. He just goes back again and again and again. The same with Max. Eze's now settled into the team and he's getting on the ball a lot more. He's taking shots off both feet. and I think that's going to help the more established players to say, by the way, look what they're doing. Can we follow their lead?

28:33Max Dowman:Yeah, look, there are a lot of players, Clive, who miss the chance Max misses and it's a good chance and he leans back and he skies it. And after that, they say, you know what? I'm just going to play within myself or their head goes down. There's none of that from him. He had one moment where the ball came to him on the touchline and he tried to kill the defender by spinning to the touchline side, not to the inside. And it's a move he has. He does that. And it's a really clever move, and he almost pulled it off. And I thought the personality to try that in this situation, that's a very hard skill when you're up against the touchline.

29:05Max Dowman:And he just kept going. And again, the shot he misses. Ezza finds him beautifully in the box. He's there. It's a good chance.

29:11Elliot:Great moves, that was.

29:12Max Dowman:I expected him to score there, candidly. And then he skies it. It's just a not composed finish. I'm hoping for target, Ellie.

29:19Elliot:You're harsh, you are. I'm hoping he hit target, but we haven't. He's got it in his locker, hasn't he? He's got it in his locker, hasn't he? You feel as though watching him, he's got that in his locker. I'll be honest with you, I didn't think he had the cross in his locker. I wasn't sure. That went a long way. He's pinged that from touchline to far post. And at the moment he struck it, everyone went, whoa, that could be going somewhere.

29:43Max Dowman:He hit it early too. He did. I mean, I do think that there's one thing that you see, and maybe it's the byproduct of pressure. Players taking an extra touch and just an extra moment to decide what they're going to do next because they really want to get it right. And he does everything early, first time, quick. When defenses aren't quite settled, I think it confused Pickford, obviously. The defense wasn't settled. Gilchrist is on his toes, which is great to see. There had been a shot earlier. Bakayo Saka actually had a shot that squeezed under Pickford's hand and Zubamendi wasn't quite on his toes to get to it when it fell into the six-yard box.

30:16Max Dowman:So it's great to see Incappier and Jokras there. But that cross, by the way, I mean, we could score 100 goals if we just get that cross right, right? The back post in swinging cross from the top of the box. We have so many options to deliver it and he got it spot on. I think we should roll back though, Clyde, to the beginning because one of the things I did, my headline on the instant reaction was Mikel's perfect night. This was a Mikel Arteta masterpiece for me in a way because he had to make some big calls with the lineup. I think he got him spot on. He had to make some tough calls with the subs.

30:49Max Dowman:I think he got him spot on. His words before and after the game, spot on. He just, I think he really got this one right. And so let's talk about that because you and I messaged each other when the lineup came out and I felt it was exactly what was needed. I thought we needed Calafiore back to add a little more central presence and creativity in our progression. I thought Kai Havertz was being rested and rotated and built up to start this game, which you had identified as the biggest one coming up. I thought keeping Nani in the team as a reward for his performances was great, but not backing down for Mikhail Saka.

31:23Max Dowman:I really liked everything about this lineup. And so let's start with that. Leo Trissart not fit enough to be in the squad. Nani, Kai, Saka, Calafiore back. I thought it was a really good reaction from Mikel Arteta to address the things we were hoping to see addressed.

31:39Elliot:Yeah, so we were worried about a little bit of creativity, and Calafiore comes into the team, and we look different in build-up when he's there. He just goes different places. He gets on the ball. He demands it. And he just moves it inside, outside of his left foot, does what he likes with it. You know, a really good player. And I love the way, this is where squash drive competition. Good players. I mean, in camp he's been magnificent. And Califiori, when I come in, I've got to really do it. And he comes into the team and just wants to play. And that whole side looked different. Completely different.

32:17Elliot:immediately and there is a debate there to be had and i don't know which way he should go you know because both of them were exiting this game um when i saw that front four secretly has been a front four i've wanted to see for a while but i wasn't sure if they're in the right positions if i'm pretty straight with you i in my heart i want to see i want to see him rotate a little bit because Eze can play left or center. Yep. Bakayos can play all three positions, left, center, and right. And Madweke can play right and left. And I actually think the strongest configuration may be Madweke on the right, Bakayos inside, and Eze off the left.

33:01Elliot:But it doesn't matter what I think. They can do that in-game. I think showing different shapes to the opposition is what we should be doing. and I think they should rotate a little bit. I really like that front four and Kai just knits it all together with his touches, right? He just knits it. He's not 100 % back, but he's still really effective and the guys trust him and the rat-a-tat one-twos are really, really good. So team selection was really positive, Elliot, to be honest. And I don't think the Major, if you did a stock-wise in the Major, I hope he got one in the IR because he deserved one.

33:38Elliot:I thought he got everything right.

33:39Max Dowman:Well, I said it. Mikel Arteta's perfect night was my headline. I called it his masterpiece. Not just the lineup, but the subs. By the way, I do want to give you credit because we do preseason predictions. We get a lot of things wrong. We get a lot of things right. One of the sections is wildest predictions. Yours was Max Dowman will be the youngest Premier League player ever. You should have gone farther and said youngest goal scorer ever.

33:59Elliot:Yeah, yeah. You got it. Yeah, yeah.

34:03Max Dowman:I love how we started this game. I thought it was just what was needed. And to your point about Kai Havertz, I want to be careful how I frame this because different players bring different things. But Kai Havertz, in his hour on the pitch, was 17 of 21 passing, right? 80%, 17 passes. Victor Jokras averages seven completed passes a game at 36%. Now, that is not me trying to take a stick and beat Victor Jokras with it. That is me saying there's something different about how you can play and build and create when you've got a center forward who is combining and involved in buildup and passing at a higher rate because you have an extra pair of boots you can pass to and connect and combine with.

34:51Max Dowman:Then I thought there was a lot of interesting combining. And let's just get to it. Maybe the best moment of our play, the whole game, is Ebreche Eze, who I thought was sensational, and I want to talk about him a bit more, finds a really clever Kai Havertz pass to Kai Havertz, a really clever Kai Havertz run from a good period of possession, and he is fouled. And it's not a penalty. And I feel terrible about it because, one, I think it would have been really well-deserved for a great Eze game. I think it would have been really well-deserved for Kai, whose involvement was important. And it would have been the goal that gets us the lead, but maybe denies us the sensational ending.

35:26Max Dowman:So maybe we're lucky they didn't get it. But you want to just talk about that moment for a minute? Because it's really well engineered by us, and it deserved something. I mean, Kai only goes down because his ankle is raked by studs. I mean, it's very clear.

35:38Elliot:And that was right below me, and I could see that. And it's clear to me that Kai had to step on him. The ball was in his circumference. He was in control of the next thing, the next action, and he goes down. It's a referee.

35:50Max Dowman:Probably a red card too, by the way. Not mentioned, but if it's a penalty, it's probably a red card.

35:54Elliot:And referees, you know, I've been around non-league and you see different various standards of referees. I've also been in grounds where I've managed where you've got professional referees and they're good. Generally, they're good. They know how to handle men. They know how to handle situations. They know football really, really well. And this is a football decision. You've got a player that's in control of the ball ahead of his man. And he goes down. And they wave it off in like seconds. Come on. Just think it through a little bit. You know, think it through.

36:25Max Dowman:I didn't like Andy Madley's performance, but I have to say I'm more confused and angry about Var there than Andy Madley because maybe Madley's not sure and he feels like, well, Var will let me know. They hardly had a look at it. And there's so many angles that show the clear contact right down the side of the ankle. So I don't know why they cleared it. Yeah.

36:48Elliot:I heard you guys talk about it last night and I thought, you know what, they've got a good point I don't think his performance was really, really good there was decisions he was making again, it's what you get inside the ground where he was a mile away from the ball he was not close to the play you know, and these are sort of technical things that will get you a bad referee score in your assessment, he was not close, so what he was doing was not making a decision I just thought I found it a bit irritating, I didn't find it overly irritating, but I thought on that penalty once I watched match of the day I thought flipping hell I mean how can that not be given you know I do wonder what it's done to the game though I you know when we go one up you know what we like we you know you know think back to the the Brighton game we scored after nine minutes was it and we then stunk the place out thereafter so we were playing well and almost I didn't mind it I wouldn't it would be interesting what would happen but this was always going to be a tight game and 87 minutes I was thinking about that penalty quite a lot, you know, and I've missed the moment.

37:49Elliot:So, but it's just a sign of SA's ability earlier. He's starting to roam around the pitch. His heat map, he's no longer next to Jokeres' left leg. His heat map is everywhere now. He's getting on the ball. He's playing at his own pace. He's receiving it. People are trusting him inside. He's quite strong. So when people try to tear through him, he makes sure he gets a foul. It's one of my big bugbears. If you receive it inside, you lose your pitch. No problem. Protect it, get a foul. you know and he's doing that he's turning around prepared to play interesting flicks first time he's prepared to play that slide pass i i like his game it's growing it's really growing and it's really growing again another player without the scar tissue is taking shots taking passes playing at his own rhythm not listening to the crowd just doing what he wants to do and i think it's brilliant one shot in the second in the so it might be the second half i believe

38:43Max Dowman:Second half curler from the right channel that just goes past the post. And he hits it first time, right? That was a left footed one.

38:49Elliot:Oh, my God. That just brought a gasp from everybody. Because, again, it was early. No one saw it. He'd lifted it over the keeper and around. And he just missed the post. And so, basically, that was an amazing moment at school. He had a right foot shot. It was like a bullet, like the one at Mansell. But the goalkeeper saved it. And so, we're having memories now of him affecting the goal, aren't we? Affecting the target. Yeah. This is what we want. We're in winning time. We need to score big goals, big moments, something instinctive and magical. And it's going to come from him. And look at the minutes he's stacking up now.

39:22Elliot:He's stacking them up, isn't he? And this is the moment, Elliot. This is the moment. This was a, this day, it was a day for years and years and years. I heard someone on TV this morning, one of that Newcastle journalist, I think his name's Craig Hope. He sort of said something, I don't like him, but he said something that was really quite good, actually. He said, it seemed to move on in this game against Arsenal. It moved from the Arsenal fans waiting to see if they're going to lose it to waiting to see when they can win it. And I thought, that's it. That's it. Because I walked to that stadium now thinking, oh my God, we could win this.

40:00Elliot:When? You know, when is it going to happen?

40:02Max Dowman:We could win it at the Etihad. There's a path to that. Yeah, it was there.

40:06Elliot:I haven't done the math yet. No doubt you have. I haven't done the math yet.

40:09Max Dowman:It depends because if City get knocked out of the Champions League by Madrid, which currently they're on pace to do, and if the Palace game gets put before our trip to the Etihad, then there is a path to it happening. I'm not saying I think it will happen, but there is a path to it happening. I want to dig into some of the things that weren't perfect on this night. I think in the interest of good analysis, as fun as this day was and as memorable as it was, I'd like to analyze the football a little bit. And I think there are things about the football I want to ask you about that aren't perfect.

40:38Max Dowman:So why don't we do this? Because I want to ask you about that. I want to talk about that Cal Fury Scorpion block again. I want to talk a little bit about substitute performances. There's the Raya save at the start of the second half, and maybe the Raya performance in general. I have a question for you about it. So there's still a lot of good stuff on the bone here, and we've got to talk a little bit about Leverkusen on Tuesday. So why don't we just do a quick palate cleanser with, you know, the only thing you can cleanse your palate with, food. Food is a good palate cleanser. And if you want the best food, you could get it from Factor.

41:09Max Dowman:Factor meals are fresh, healthy, good meals delivered, ready. They are ready to eat in two minutes with no planning and no cooking. You can get options that are high in protein. You can get options that are for strength and recovery. You can get options that are for people who are on GLP-1s or the Mediterranean diet or just on a calorie smart approach. I used to hate having to plan meals. Like every once in a while, do I like going to the grocery store, buying some nice ingredients, coming home and making an amazing meal? Yes. Does it turn out amazing? Well, not every time, but you get the idea.

41:43Max Dowman:But most of the time, trying to figure out what to make for yourself or for the family is a burden and it's difficult and it can wind up being expensive. And then a lot of times I'd find myself throwing out ingredients and stuff that had gone bad because I never got around to making the meal. Factor is an affordable, phenomenal way to get great food, fresh, ready in two minutes. And all you got to do is head to factormeals.com slash arsenalvision50off. Arsenal Vision, the number 50 off, and use code arsenalvision50off to get 50 % off and free breakfast for a year. That offer is valid for new Factor customers with the code and the qualifying auto-renewing subscription purchase.

42:17Max Dowman:Make healthier eating easy with Factor. And once you're well-fed, then you're ready to start your e-commerce business, of course. And if you're going to do that, you're going to use Shopify. Look, what you want is you want to get your products, your art, your merchandise, dice, whatever it is that you do that you're passionate about in front of people who want to buy it. And then when they get to see it, it should look professional. It should be on Facebook, it should be on Instagram, it should be on TikTok, all the places that your audience is. And it should be the case that you don't have to understand what cart optimization is, or, you know, how to deal with the shipping and checkout process.

42:52Max Dowman:So Shopify builds you a professional looking site, it links it to all the key social media platforms. And it takes care of the e commerce side that you don't need to learn in 2026 stop waiting and start selling with shopify cha-ching sign up for your one dollar per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com slash arsenal vision go to shopify.com slash arsenal vision that's shopify.com slash arsenal vision here you are first cha-ching this new year with shopify by your side glad is that enough of that indeed not it um look one thing about our football that was kind of bothering me last night like i thought we played well.

43:26Max Dowman:I thought we were more dominant in the positions that we occupied. I thought we were better in progressing the ball. I thought Cal Fiore helped that, but when we got in the final third, one thing I really noticed is how much our number 10 was really William Saliba. That William Saliba had the ball at his feet at the start of, or at the end of our buildup, with a lot of the responsibility to make that next killer pass. William Saliba had to make the pass between a center back and a fullback to free a winger. William Saliba had to make the pass on the slant into Kai Havertz, and And I just was finding myself thinking, as phenomenal as he is and as capable of doing that as he is, too many of our moves involved Saliba having to try to make the defense splitting or unlocking pass.

44:10Max Dowman:So did you notice that? Do you have an observation about Saliba pushing really high up and being the one with that responsibility? And maybe any tweaks to how we could do that? Or why it was winding up like that?

44:19Elliot:Yeah, so I was, we know on Friday night we were talking about this fullback position, you know, Timber sometimes being high and Califiori being higher in the season. I almost had a little arguing with myself when I was walking the dogs on Saturday morning. I thought, well, I could have explained that a bit better. I think the game we maybe can do a rewatch is in the national break. The game that really changed my season was the Bayern Munich game at home. And the level of rotation from both sides, mate, I can't describe it to you. Honestly, the situation is sometimes we had no centre-backs. They were just they just weren't there and we trusted to leave that space to other people we were if they were everywhere we were everywhere and that ability to rotate is really important within that within the man-to-man systems and people rotating sometimes you have a situation where you want to leave certain people on the ball and so the opposition say well i'd rather have sleeper on the ball because i don't want sacker on the ball i don't want these players i don't want kai to have the ball.

45:22Elliot:Someone needs to have it. And if I ask Bear Man Saliba, and he can do a lot of stuff on it, then that's the risk that the opposition carry. And do they want to carry it for the entire game? I wouldn't see it as a detriment to our style. I see it as, this is what the opposition are letting us have. What can we do with it? Now think back to the days when Saliba's not there, how our build-up just looks so clunky. because teams are doing this. They'd rather focus on our right-handed side targets to receivers than the players like him. And what he's so good at is that when he goes high and he's five yards away from an attacker or a midfielder or a winger, he can do a rondo with them.

46:05Elliot:He can get the ball and he can play it through. This is incredible. I mean, these guys now are midfielders now. Basically, it's a team of midfielders and the only thing that differentiates them is their size and their last man ability on the last line to make big tackles and headers etc he builds up as well as any centimid and also he can run with it as well he's got he's got soft feet got soft passes i don't see it as a detriment i see it as a byproduct of trying to break man-to-man systems and rotate and in eventuality it's going to be a spare man they're going to most likely make your spare man be your defender sometimes it's your weakest defender but because we're so right side dominant we always get there eventually we go left we come back to the keeping we go back out to the right we go back out to the right they're collapsing across and we get the ball into our right-sided player we are right-sided dominant attack no point in arguing about it our left side was better in this game but we're a regular 40 % down the right-hand side and the rest is a chain split between the middle and the left and he's a key part of that and why so i see it it's good um i was a bit concerned about um well where i was concerned i mean it's interesting

47:12Max Dowman:you went straight to saliba i was just just so clear i'm not that was not meant to be a criticism of saliba i hope it was because he had 104 passes game my criticism it's not even criticism my observation is because saliba was sensational i mean what other center back can have 104 out of 110 passes 95 on 110 passes 127 touches 13 final third entries my point isn't yeah this is a bad saliva game it's a sensational saliva game my point is is there someone else that can be in that pocket like the way we ended this game clive don't yell at me rice at six and two eights baby you know you know it's where my my hope comes from but like why is it not Zuby on the ball where Saliba is or even as a dropping into that space.

47:59Max Dowman:It was more just the system generating a lot of final third touches for our centre-back versus other options. That's all.

48:07Elliot:Yeah, I think... But what would you do? If you're the opposition, you'd try to mark the centre midfielders, wouldn't you? And you let the people furthest away from... You let the people furthest away from the goal have the ball. If the person's furthest away from the goal happens to be William Saliba from an Everton perspective. That's okay, but I don't want it fisting to Supermandy because he might find a passing side. I'll stand on him. Now, there are occasions in the second phase where he gets the ball. There was a bit yesterday. I thought he had a really good game yesterday, but I think people are starting to get on him.

48:37Elliot:I don't know why because I thought he was good. I thought, I actually thought he was better than Rice in the early phase of this game. I thought Rice took a knock and he's limping. What's his space for the week, by the way?

48:47Max Dowman:His shoe came off. He was holding his foot. And I will say, Rice had one of those games where, again, I do just look at roles and profiles, though, because he had a few moments where he got the ball, slid to him from Nani, top of the box kind of thing. And you just see the difference in instinct, like when Eza gets the ball in that position versus Rice gets the ball in that position, the natural instinct of what to do next.

49:09Elliot:Yeah, I looked at the overall intent. Let's be honest, right? Stuttgart, we didn't play. Sorry, why don't I say Stuttgart? Leverkusen, we didn't play well.

49:17Max Dowman:We probably would have played better against Stuttgart. Because they're way worse than Leverkusen.

49:20Elliot:We didn't play well, but we got the job done. We turned up the volume late in the game and got our point. Brighton, we scored early. Didn't really play well the way that did we. I haven't got a memory of anything.

49:32Max Dowman:We couldn't keep the ball. And that's one thing I liked. I know it was late when we went 1-0 up in this game, but we had 65 % possession in this game. We possessed the ball in the right areas of the pitch. One, we got the lead. I still think we tried to pass to a red shirt. We tried to pass to each other. we kept the ball on the ground, we kept passing it. I just, fundamentally, we have a lot of very talented players at every position. And so the question becomes, where does the ball need to be to break down these defenses? And so it was an observation for me that the ball was frequently at Saliba's feet, which it was.

50:06Max Dowman:And it's just a question of can it wind up at someone else's feet? Now, one person who had the ball at his feet a few times, both defensively and in attack, was Calafiore. I think Piero Incapi is wonderful and he's important on our goal. But I do think you can see what Cal Fiore adds. And by the way, really dominant in the air too. Doesn't get enough credit for that because he's a very big guy. We mentioned the Scorpion kick save. It deserves another mention because it was so good. But I'm also curious to get your take on the way he influenced our ball progression and possession.

50:36Elliot:Yeah, magnificent. You know, my halftime note said it. I couldn't start. You know, sometimes you just can't take your eyes on certain players, right? And I could just see him get on the ball. I thought he was, I thought he literally was transformational to our build up.

50:50Max Dowman:I agree.

50:51Elliot:Completely agree. Transformational. I felt different about the team. I said to you in the note, I said, we look like Arsenal Football Club again. We just did. And from that moment on, all bets were off for me. I thought, sometimes we walk into a game, I walk into the ground, I met some of the staff that I know, and they said to me, oh, Clive, we're staying open for the City game. I'm thinking, oh, don't upset the football gods. why are we doing that? Why are we doing that? Trust me, after the game, that ground was rocking, mate, watching the City game. And I was worried about this game earlier.

51:24Elliot:And then you see people like Califiori who just take your worries away. The ball comes, mate, and they're all over it. They're all over their opponent. They're running through the midfield. They're stroking out to me. They're heading towards the box. And you see a level of freedom that sort of takes your own nerves away. And you think, well, they can play like this. I need to do my job, right? Which is start singing. for God's sake, you know, because that's what it felt like and I got a lot of confidence from him. I think I said the words, I thought he was sensational in the first half. That may have been overkill for some, but I really thought he was.

51:57Elliot:I thought he was supremely there for his teammates, there for a one-two, really trying to win his place back. You know, that's what it looked like to me by it really affecting the team. He wasn't charging around playing for himself. He was charging around trying to add to our build-up and really create on the left-hand side. in the last few games, I have not seen that at all. You know, it's coming to the point of the season now where Declan goes into, we're not going to lose this game mode. You know, and he starts to cover all of the gaps, all the tackles, all the recoveries, and he's incredibly important at that.

52:31Elliot:But I think we're looking for the two centre-missive to give us a little bit more going forward, shall we say? And this is where I thought Califiori and Timber have taken a lot of that up. We lost Timber in this game, and I was not surprised to see Mosquera come on in it for my own view because I could feel Everton. I want to ask you about it. I could feel Everton's, I could feel the fear. I could feel them playing well, you know?

52:55Max Dowman:So I do want to stay on that. So let's stay on it for a minute because one, again, I was really full of praise for Mikel at the end of this. And one of the reasons is Timber is a player, similar to Ben White, by the way, who will gut it out. He's not going to take himself off the pitch. We've seen that. He played on a torn ACL, right? and didn't reveal enough. You know what? I'm not going to go there because it opens a Pandora's box, a can of worms. But my point is, he was clearly hurt. I think he's been carrying something anyway that's sort of been in the ether and he was clearly hurt. He was not playing well.

53:26Max Dowman:He was becoming a liability because he didn't have his physical best. And Mikel did not leave him out there, did not hesitate, didn't wait for the second half. He made a decisive change. And just, I do think it tells you where Benjamin White's fitness is right now, that it was Mascara and not Ben White. But I thought that was a big moment in the match, Clive, Mikel's decision not to let Timber keep trying to gut it out.

53:49Elliot:Yeah, he took a knock right by the sideline, literally in front of Mikel's bench, right? He took a right on the touchline. And we rocked for a while after that because we were one man short in defense. They get the shot off the post and they have a bit of pressure. And that could have – last year, that's 1-0 down. It's as simple as that. That's 1-0 down. and that goes in off the post, hits Rar in the head and goes in. And that's what he felt like. This time we get a bit of a break. We sit him down, he gets treatment and we get a bit of a moment to rest and think. And you can see White and Mosquera warming up.

54:22Elliot:And I'll be honest with you, in my heart, I'm hoping for Mosquera because I've just felt at that moment that Everton were quite threatening. They're quite physical. And I just thought we needed another stick-on defender to maybe stand still because Califre was flying. I thought, you know what? Mosquera's the better one for this game if we're 1-0 down 25 minutes ago and Timber goes off I think Ben White comes on you know honestly I think that's the case we are talking about sometimes particularly with players like Ben White who in the last year or so have played very few minutes and we all have these memories of players but at this moment in time until they get their rhythm back they are just that they are memories you know so to the manager he had more recent memories of Mosquera defending really, really well in critical games.

55:11Elliot:And so he's going to pick him. I thought he came in and really stabilized us on that side. I thought he had a really good game. It was the right pick for this game, without a doubt. And I think it was just a good performance.

55:25Max Dowman:It was a good, dominant, professional performance. They had some chances, and I do think that our defensive dominance has led people to forget that the opposition gets chances. They do. You know, would we like them to get no chances? Yes. And did they maybe have a little bit more than we'd like? Yes. But I thought we played well. I thought we were maybe either slightly cautious or slightly inaccurate with the final ball to unlock them. But they are one of the best defensive teams in the league. I should mention, by the way, though, no Tarkowski or Brantwight in this game. So that's worth noting.

56:02Max Dowman:We'll jump ahead here in a moment. But at the start of the second half, David Raya had to make a really important save down near the post with his foot. It's a stunning save. And I, you know, I frequently get things wrong on the instant reaction. One of the reasons I get things wrong is because, well, first of all, like you've just seen the game, the emotions coursing through your veins. And we have this headline stock rising, stock falling format that we use. And by the time we get to the stock falling, I'm like, I don't even remember me, like, what even happened? So I tend to default to a thing that I felt.

56:32Max Dowman:And in the cold light of day, sometimes either the stock rising or the stock falling winds up being wrong. I had a weird I think relationship to this David Raya performance because David Raya made some saves that were absolutely essential but the Cal Fiore Scorpion kick comes from a cross that he doesn't deal with well. He sort of flaps it down. There's a late late header from a corner where I just thought the ball was flying in. I think it was when we were still nil-nil. You remember it? Yeah. He goes into a crowd scene. actually and um yeah well they got they got a we got a goal kick but i i think you're right that he goes up mascara he's he goes into a crowd and gets lost he flapped a little bit later at another one so the save he makes is stunning and he had a couple really good saves in this game he gave one pass again where it was like rolling and nearly picked off and he's done that a couple of times recently i think i'm just i'm nervous because this is a keeper for me who one of his big USPs is that he's so dominant commanding his box.

57:32Max Dowman:He's great at claiming crosses. He's been really good at that. And I thought he was a little flappy and a little lost in crowd scenes here. Now it was, I think he's the first keeper. Let me get the exact record right. Arsenal's David Raya becomes the first goalkeeper in Europe's top five leagues to record 20 clean sheets in all competitions. That comes from CBS Sports Galazzo. So huge credit to him for that. But do I have anything there, Clive? Or is it just my own nerves bleeding into my analysis with the way he's

57:59Elliot:handling some of the corners and crosses yeah so there was one cross where i think he came for it but gabriel headed it away just in front of him sort of thing and i'm poor communication there yeah but and it reminded me of the one against was it wolves yeah yeah he wants to help right he's a he's a proactive goalkeeper he's brave you know one of the phrases used for about him is he he prevents mistakes before they even happen and he wants to help he wants to help he wants to step been there and be brave and that's the way he's been coached and that's why we bought him for this very reason i think i'm watching these games earlier and they are no longer football games they are not no longer football games as we know them because we are close to doing something that we've never done since we've been in that new stadium you know we are close to doing something that we haven't done for a long time.

58:54Elliot:And in this context, this is no longer football, mate. This is about how can we win? What do we do? What can we do to help each other? What difference can we make? What can we do to turn this 0-0 into a victory? And at that moment on, all previous behaviors are out the window. Now, if we were playing to structure and playing to positional play, well, Hinkapi's not on the back post on that cross. he's nowhere near it right so and that's the difference you've got to do something the goalkeeper's part of that he's trying to come out and claim he's trying to come out make a difference and when it comes down to when it comes down to basic goalkeeping that shot by the near post we got his leg out that's the moment of the game we don't win without that that's everything else just throw it away throw it in the bin you know honestly throw it in the bin because he's trying to do something to help us win and i look around these players at the moment and i'm just not judging them the same i'm not judging the play the same what i'm looking for at the moment is energy bounce and intention to play that's what i'm looking for because when you have that framework you can then deliver against it i'm not looking at comparing this player to that player i'm looking at saying what can you do for us what are you going to do for us today to make sure you dominate your man and that we can progress up the pitch to get the goals that we need to give us the four or five pictures we need to win this league.

1:00:18Elliot:And David Rea, he could be player of the season. And I'm not saying, because I think what you're saying is absolutely true. I sometimes think, slow down, mate. Slow down, make sure the pass goes correctly, all the rest of it. That's my inner fear talking versus what he's actually doing. What he's actually doing is saving our season, like he always does, makes big, unbelievable saves at critical moments from point blank ranges. Do I have the nerves? Absolutely do I have the nerves. But I just think in the context of what we're trying to achieve this year and what we're trying to achieve this year, mate, we've never done it before.

1:00:59Elliot:You know, what could happen. We've never done it. Yeah.

1:01:04Max Dowman:With respect to the second half, I'm not sure we were creating enough and again I think Mikel was so good with his subs he didn't particularly wait I think Martinelli and Jokers for Nani and Kai winds up being important because Jokers scores the winner what did you make of this Victor Jokers substitute appearance I mean he has a header late that leads to Max Downman's goal that's absolutely central he throws himself at it as you mentioned he scores the winner because he's on his toes it is so obvious to me just how different we are with him on versus kyan because he's not going to touch the ball he's not going to pass the ball you know he's going to make some runs and he's going to try to get into the right spot to score and he does um they're just different ways of playing and they're going to fit people's eyes differently but he shows up in a moment we need him to and for strikers if you score goals the rest can probably get thrown in the bin from an analysis standpoint but i'm going to ask you to pull it out of the bin unwrap the crumpled up paper and read off it.

1:02:03Max Dowman:What do you make of the substitute performance from Victor York who hasn't really had to play as a sub much this season at all?

1:02:09Elliot:Yeah, and I think this would have been the role he would have played every other game. And he was not able to do that because we lost our other center forwards to an injury and the other one had a cruciate at the time. So he was forced to play 60, 70 minutes every single three days, basically. And then Marino backfilling for him when he got injured. And That's where we were. So here we are now in a situation where exactly what many of us thought would happen, that Havertz would be there for the big games, the important games, particularly at home, and Jokeres maybe used away from home a little bit more.

1:02:39Elliot:And definitely for the last 20-minute jobs, particularly when we hopefully, the home game state would go ahead and Jokeres comes on, teams push on, and Jokeres goes and picks their pocket. That was my little dream pre-season scenario, basically, to allow them to settle into a new league. In this game, this is what I thought, it was a fantastic day, actually. As I was recording my bit for you yesterday, I'm looking at this team and I'm thinking, mate, we've got Calafuri playing. Our two centre-backs are doing the business and they're handling their man easily, progressing the play, goalkeepers flying around.

1:03:13Elliot:We lose one full-back, bring another one who's even more defensively secure. Two centre-backs have got their rhythm back again and then popping the ball about. Eze's in the tennis starting to strut and cruise around the pitch. we got Saka back got his mojo back a little bit not fully back but on his way back look at the numbers they look really really good Nonny on the left we're trying something different and got Kai back I think oh great then we make a substitution we make him capping I'm thinking and then we bring on and I'm looking at it and I'm saying this is the best of us this is the best of what we have with the changes we're missing Odegaard maybe missing Trossard from this group from Marino that's it this is the best of what we have and I was thinking, crikey, if we don't win, where do we go with this?

1:03:59Elliot:You know, where do we go? What's missing? What's not there? Jokeres comes in, plays his part and scores the goal, which we all moaning about last year. We just want a guy to stand between the sticks. Just stand between the sticks and be there when that ball comes across. And where was he when the ball comes across? Anticipating, not on his heels like he was early in the season, anticipating where it might go for an easy tap-in. Exactly the type of goal Arsenal do not score. You know, we don't score these goals. Everyone else scores them, doesn't they? Little tap-ins and side foots. We don't. Our striker's on the edge of the area waiting for a combination play on our wide triangles.

1:04:36Elliot:And so everything that we've done in pre-season, I thought it came to fruition in this game. It really did because the edge of the competition for Califiori to make him play like that because he's got someone behind him, right around him. You look at what Nonny's done to force himself into the team. Vakaya's thinking, I better play better. I can't have two stinkers in a row. And now we've got a rotation at centre-forward. Eze's coming now, carrying that position because Martin Odegaard's not available. If anything, the only place we haven't got massive rotation is in the double centre-mids. We haven't got there, but everything is going in the right direction.

1:05:13Elliot:Jokor Esamim, again, play your role. there for the long passes, for the sets and second ball, but also stay between the sticks, son. Stay between there. That's where the action is going to happen. We're going to create chances. Do not move and the goals don't move. Be there for when it happens. And I was hoping that, I want to see another great shot like a Spurs, but I thought it was all right, Elliot. But for me, Kai Havertz is, if you want to draw a McHale 10 % forward down on a piece of paper, that's the guy. But it doesn't mean you have to end every single game, do every single 90 minutes.

1:05:46Yeah.

1:05:47Max Dowman:Yeah, it's an interesting one. I mean, look, you know where we're going to go next because it's my hobby horse. The way we finished this game. First of all, again, huge credit to Mikel. Like, it wasn't Max Dowman for Saka. You know, it was Max Dowman for Zubamendi. And whatever you think of the Zubamendi performance, what I actually thought was pretty good, it's a change that invites the opportunity to get a winning goal more. And Mikayo Saka moves inside, Max Dowman moves out to the wing, and Declan Rice gets to just clean up and make sure nothing gets by him, which is something that he is uniquely qualified to do.

1:06:26Max Dowman:Whether it's Max Dowman doing it or not, whether it's Leo left, Nani right, and Saka in the eight, along with Ezza in the eight, or when Odegaard's back, when it's Ezza and Odegaard with Declan Rice, do you think that Mikkel might find more situations where he wants to go single pivot double eights, or is that just Elliot being Elliot because it's literally the only thing I can think of most times?

1:06:51Elliot:Yeah, well, I'm sure we will. But, Elliot, it's not like I don't agree with you, but this is exactly the scenario we should do it in, isn't it? Yeah. This is it. I don't think we should be starting games like this. I don't, but I prefer, I am a pragmatist, so I like what we do. I like how we built up. And so I liked what we did in this game. I liked the rhythm. I liked what we did. so yeah I'm I'm all for that I don't there are other ways you could do it you can really invert your fullback and make that the extra midfielder and then stick extra attackers on you can do that we've done that before we haven't done that so much this season proof's in the pudding right we've got more wins than ever and we're in four competitions playing more games than ever I think a lot of that comes from our structure and I like it but when you're making changes and you're trying to win a game of football some people take a defender out some people take a midfielder out who's got defensive and recycled tendencies right so what we did we put Eze back into that role but Rice, Eze's played almost like a 1 plus 1 one in front of the other but closer so he could be the first pass for Rice then turn around and go but he's obviously more attacking in his body and gets the edge of the air for shots it's the right thing to do it's absolutely the right thing to do well like I say look what Pep did in Madrid.

1:08:15Elliot:He did a similar thing and got skinned. You know, at the start of the game when he's potentially out the tie. And by the way,

1:08:22Max Dowman:did it again against West Ham and got one goal and drew. So it's not a panacea. Yeah, yeah.

1:08:28Elliot:But there are times for it. There are times when you've got to do stuff. You've got to win stuff. That means you've got to take gambles. You've got to put more attacking players onto the pitch. And that's what we did. We made changes. I thought you got everything right. Everything right. The only little niggle is, I thought Eze Madweke and Saka could have rotated a little bit to create a different shape. Maybe that's coming in time. Because just before Madweke came up, he's on the right, I think post a dead ball, and he absolutely skinned his man. And I thought, you're not bad on the left, but you're really good on the right.

1:09:03Elliot:Let's be honest.

1:09:04Max Dowman:It's a muted performance from Nani off the left. It's a muted performance from Martinelli, albeit a very brief one, off the left. But I still cannot get away from the idea that Ezza off the left with his ability to beat a man and deliver a really good ball is something that if Odegaard was fit, we'd be seeing. But we just don't have an option. So for right now, it is what it is. I want to shift gears and just get to Leverkusen for a minute because it is on Tuesday. It comes quick. There's two huge games. There's a Champions League second leg and there's a cup final. If I can only win one of them, I'm winning the one on Tuesday.

1:09:38Max Dowman:I'm sorry, everybody. That's where I'm at. this club can't be going out of the Champions League with the draw we've got at this phase we've never won that trophy it is a huge blight on our CV on our reputation globally not to have it and this is a season where we are good enough to win it and we have a draw where we will be favored all the way until the final so we should be doing this now we should be doing what we can to win this so for me Clive whatever rotation he's got in mind whatever rest and readiness he's got in mind I think Mikel Arteta needs to make sure he is not looking past Tuesday towards the cup final.

1:10:16Max Dowman:And I'm curious if you see it the same way.

1:10:18Elliot:Yeah, I do. Hey, look, this was the big one for me. Everton was the one that opens up the rest of the season. What happened with City thereafter has just given me more confidence at how important this Everton game was. If you were in that stadium towards the end of that game, I don't care what Leverkusen got, they're getting it on Tuesday. they can't survive that place because we've shown we're back into our attacking intent again some of that pressure we had in the second half around Everton's box had them camped in and we were able to get wave after wave after wave, we're back to being ourselves again, much closer to ourselves shall we say, not perfect but closer to ourselves and more and more people standing up, we found a new player in Max Downwell in this game who's going to play a part in late games going forward if we need him to while protecting his development and growth.

1:11:07And so much, much better.

1:11:10Elliot:But Leverkusen, I felt they showed us something in that first game, how structured they can be. But I thought we in the second half, once we worked out that we need to shake them on the outside and really be direct, I thought Martinelli and Nonny in that game were quite good late. They were quite good. I think that's what we need to do. I think based on the first game, I think they played really well. I think we're going to take them. I just can't see it. I can't see us not taking them. Massively important. The League Cup final, I think we're going to be fine in that. I do. Wembley has a good feeling for us all people.

1:11:54Elliot:It just feels right when we go there. It feels like our home. We'll have all the neutral seats.

1:11:58Max Dowman:Might be our home for a season or two to come.

1:12:01Elliot:All the club Wembley tickets will be to London people, mate we'll have all of them and um so we'll be all over that ground all over the area because that's that's what we that's what we do and so um yeah let's see what happens if we're fit and

1:12:12Max Dowman:healthy for that game i think we'll be all right so look if you do want to talk a little bit about leverkusen and where they can be you know a problem for us we know up that left hand side right that's that's where they want to attack with Grimaldo and if it's got to be Mascara over there they're going to have a little more joy potentially I don't know that Timber will be ready to come right back in um Victor Yocres is now up to his 16 goals in all comps which whatever you think of his overall quality that output is getting us places getting us important points getting us over the line I think we looked a little better from an overall fluidity standpoint with Kai Havertz in there and I'd like Kai to play.

1:12:58Max Dowman:I just don't know if Mikel will think he can start Kai Havertz two games in three days. The left-hand side, like I said, did Nani look sparkling off the left? No. Would he go with him again? He looked okay. He's got some big calls. Yeah, he wasn't bad. I just think it was not the same kind of dynamism we see on the right where he looks like he can't be stopped. I think the way he played against Leverkusen, their fullbacks can't handle him or wingbacks. They cannot handle him. So I think there might be cause for Mikel Arteta to look at starting Nani off the right in this game to just do what he did in his sub-appearance against Leverkusen.

1:13:34Max Dowman:And maybe you bring Mikhail Saka inside and push Eza out to the left. It would be a weird, it'd be a very big game to try something you haven't done. And so that's my only question. Is Mikel going to say, you know what? I'm going to do things I'm familiar with because this is a weird time to experiment? Or is he going to invoke the spirit of Pep Guardiola, who's always been willing to experiment in the Premier League and try something he hasn't done before? when you want to rotate

1:13:57Elliot:this Everton game maybe we've got three games in a week the Everton game is almost the start of the rotation you know so you see a bit of Califuri in this game the Hincapie didn't have a great game in Leverkusen he didn't really manage the game really well he came on in this game and just went well I'm not having that and he came on it was incredible and so you can see those two sharing the games this week which way around it will go doesn't mean I'm not too sure but maybe to see what Mikel wants to do against Man City, what type of defensive unit he wants to put together. If Timber's out, this may suit Kalfur a bit more to be the looser, more attacking fullback, shall we say, if Mosquera plays, which I think he will play.

1:14:41Elliot:I think Timber took a knock. In all those celebrations, it took Timber a while to get there in that corner flag. He wasn't running, mate. He was walking over there. So that's a little bit of a worry. But we've got cover, haven't we? We have got the cover. for it. So, yeah, I'm not too worried. I just think we started to see Arsenal again and that's, that was my little worry earlier. I was so concerned about the fatigue. You know, that was the thing that I'm thinking, if we get this wrong against Everton, City win, we have a month to think about the gap closing and now what's happened? The gap's grown and we've got a month to think about the gap's grown and if we beat Leverkusen, we can start to plan the next round and we can just cut final 50-50, mate, it's a 50-50 game.

1:15:26Elliot:I'm going to it, thank God, and I'm going to be there. And when I'm there, it's going to be the most important thing in the world. The most important thing in the world is that league title. And that ground atmosphere told me what was important to everybody. We do not want to be ridiculed for not winning something when we have been on top of the league for I don't know how many days. We need to get this job over the line. That's the only thing that matters. Everything else, I really wanted to happen. The Champions League could happen. but if the Champions League we need to find real form you know and I think at the moment I look at Bayern Munich I think their form is really really good I look at PSG their form is returning Real Madrid their form is peaking and returning there are other teams peaking while we're carrying the caravan up the hill in the Premier League to try to win it if we win the Premier League and we're still in the Champions League I think everything will start to feel downhill and then we'll become very, very dangerous for any opponent.

1:16:27Elliot:Until that time, literally quarter by quarter, half by half, train session by train session, just keep going. Yeah.

1:16:36Max Dowman:For those of you wondering, could Max Dowman start in the Champions League? Mikel was asked if Max could start games soon. Here was his answer, quote, Calm, let's come down to earth today and enjoy the moment because it was intense and it was worth it and we'll see tomorrow.

1:16:49Elliot:So Mikel calling for calm there. They're starting to get, they said this morning that, oh yeah, Max is a really good player. He's got a bit of an attitude, trying to label him already, got a bit of swagger. You know, then someone else comes in.

1:17:02Max Dowman:I mean, that's not what you hear. You hear, I mean, Mikel referenced his character multiple times in his answers about why he felt comfortable calling on him, what he's got to do, what he's been able to do. He referenced his character and, you know, I don't think. So what happened? I don't think there's any sense that his character is anything other than wonderful, which is why, by the way, he's still at Arsenal. What happens though? On the mood in the camp.

1:17:24Elliot:Sorry, what happens though is people that don't know him so well take a snapshot of what they think they're seeing on the pitch and then align the narratives and the character traits without knowing him. But people that know him and know his family, and there are many people around Arsenal that do know him and know how he's come up and what he's doing off the pitch and how he's allowed to be a kid still, you know, because he is. you know but with extreme talent and look at the way the players are with him i mean these are special times let people label him i'm sure us will get hold of those journalists and say boy hold on a minute he's got double maps on mondays talk about him properly you know i have

1:18:07Max Dowman:to say i was watching the coverage after the game concluded and it's max just walking around the pitch and the guy with the steadicam has it jammed in his face basically max is a 16 year old walk around the pitch and there's a steadicam two feet from his face going out to the world and he's just walking there calm as could be the idea that you could even begin to understand what it must feel like at 16 i mean i think about being 16 i don't think i'd hit puberty yet if we're being completely honest um some people would say have you have you now still your voice is still breaking mate yeah and and he's just walking around that pitch 60 000 people not moving cheering you on and a steadicam jammed in your face to talk about character the character is to just be able to even take another step or take another breath in that moment let alone how you react to it i i can't say enough good things about him and um on on the late goals michael said it is big because you put so much passion effort hours into this which is our passion when you turn around and you see the bench and their eyes just filled with that happiness that joy and you're almost not believing what has just happened it makes all the sense in the world for what we do and the difficult moments that we go through and the reaction of the bench as well when I see everybody so willing and so generally happy about the team winning in the matter we did.

1:19:20Max Dowman:It's so special. Mikel deserves credit for something that we don't talk about much, which is there are players who aren't playing as much as they'd like. Look where they are. Look where Miles Lewis-Skelly is when Max scores. He's burrowing into the celebration. Who hugs Mikel the hardest when Jokeres scores? Kai Havertz, who was taken off for that guy who's going to have to battle for that position. They're embraced, you know, embracing each other and celebrating. This group is Ben White, who didn't come on, Mascara did, right? Could he have a sulk? No, he's the first over to Max Downman. So I love the togetherness in the group.

1:19:52Max Dowman:I think you're right that this is a lift we need to go bury Leverkusen. We do have to do that. It is a huge game. The final point I'll make is that we are now in a position where we have a margin for error in the league. Now, that doesn't mean go throw points away. But I think that could create a lightness as well for a team that's seen themselves fall short. being able to play without the existential burden on your back every time you go on the pitch, that could be a big lift. And we'll have to see. We don't play again in the league for almost a month. So we get to rewatch this game over on Patreon.

1:20:25Max Dowman:We get to rethink about this performance. We get to go into the next two games, cup games, Champions League, League Cup final, without having to worry about the burden of the league. With the burden of the league sagging on a Manchester City team worth three goals down to Real Madrid, we're right where we want to be psychologically. Now we just have to go and execute. I think we should leave it there. We will almost certainly have a rewatch of this at some point. It might have to be during the interlal, though, because we got two big cup ties coming up. We will have an Academy pod coming this week for patrons who want to follow the Academy, one of the Academy players that we might talk about, Max Dowman, just 16 years old, so we don't want to get ahead of ourselves, but pretty important player.

1:21:03Max Dowman:Okay, enough nonsense. We'll leave it there, Clive. Thank you.

1:21:05Elliot:Thank you very much.

1:21:06Max Dowman:More from Phil and Paul and Tim in the future. I do want to say Phil going through a really hard time with his back. He's experiencing a lot of pain, a lot of sleeplessness, and we send love and thoughts to Phil as he tries to get on the right track. And if you are connected to him on socials or anywhere, send him some love. Tell him you're thinking of him because I know it's really hard, and he's a young guy, and to be going through that is not great. So we wish him a speedy recovery. Yep, all right.

1:21:30Clive:See you in DC on the 11th for those who want to be there. More information on London coming as well.

1:21:33Max Dowman:We love you, and we will talk to you after ourselves and leverage. You know?

1:21:41Thank you.