Another Title Race Twist Sees Arsenal Surge Ahead After Big Win

29:35Elliot:I just wanted to, because you said Havertz midfield and I've immediately got my... I personally think we played almost like two strikers. Yeah, we played a part. And this is, you know, I will say, I've been saying this for a while, I like the pairs situation. When I see the 9 and 10, whatever you want to do, whether they split one, one goes deep, I don't really care. I think there's a lot of talk about Arsenal going around the horse on the outside. And the reason why I think we lack centrality, we don't stand in there long enough. So basically, if our... Two players that are happy physically, happy switching, receiving inside, means that suddenly we become more central.

30:11Elliot:And I think that's really important because we naturally go wide anyway. If we can just by positioning that player become a team that goes left, right and centre, then we become much harder to read. People don't know where we're going to go. I think this is a significant change. and I honestly believe football's going to get back to 4-4-2, 4-2-4. So, you know, with two people down the middle, because we're letting off people on Zone 14. They're squeezing the game and they're saying, you won't be brave enough to come in here. And the teams that have been quite successful on occasion, I include Arsenal in this, but Villa, Manchester United are doing it recently, are really going down the gut.

30:53Elliot:Man City are playing 4-2-2. The game is changing again. and we've got the players to change it, which until we lost Marino, by the way, we've got the players to go with that change. Yeah, absolutely. Tim, by the way, I was going to say, Mikel had great words for the lead supporters, by the way, since loves going to that type of ground, loves that kind of support. Tim, you may have a different opinion of that kind of support. I believe you said whiny opposition fans was your stock falling on the instant reaction. But it is the case that I think Mikel latched on to something there. You look how they play.

31:29You look how physical they are. You look how energetic and aggressive they are. These are teams that have a full week of rest before they play you, which you don't. And it is an interesting thought when you have a big squad to manage phases of the game, to manage the period where the crowd's going to be hot and the game's going to be physical and they're going to have energy. And then as the spaces open up, when they get a little more fatigued and when the crowd's maybe not as into the game, you're able to kill them with technical quality so we had to do the first part first and nani maduike is really the guy i mean he his cross for zubamendi's goal is brilliant might talk a bit about zubamendi as well he gets his olympico goal after the fact denying us the singularity of own goal from a 70s which you know of course everybody wanted to see happen but it's such an interesting situation we have with nani um michael was asked a lot before chelsea by the way about ethan going out on loan and I think Mikel's answers, I didn't watch the presser, I just read it, it felt a little conflicted, sort of like we know this is good for him, we want him to go do well, we want to see him thrive, but it doesn't look like we have an ability to cancel the loan.

32:34It sounded like he was a little conflicted about him being there, but it's just, this is the kind of moment that Nani was brought in for, when Bikayo can't go, when you don't want to strap him up and send him back out there maybe carrying something, and he really delivered. So how important a day was this for Nani Meduake? and what about his game really stood out to you in this particular performance? Yeah, I quite like him starting against low blocks. I haven't liked him as much coming into games against low blocks, but starting against low blocks, I think he's really good just because of his repeatability.

33:05He's got a little bit of that Saka thing where it's like, give me the ball and I'll go, give me the ball and I'll go. There's something quite puppy-ish about him, you know, like throw it, throw it, throw it, I'll chase it, throw it, I'll chase it. You keep throwing that ball, I'm going to keep chasing it and I won't stop. And that kind of repeatability. And I think that has, and because he can go inside and outside, right? I think that's something that's really underrated about him. He's happy to go on outside on his right foot, just like Saka is. And I think about what that must do to a fullback and how tiring that is.

33:40You know, oh God, he's coming again and again. I don't know if he's going outside or inside. I don't know if he's going to chop or go first time. I don't know if he's going to combine. He showed, and I want to see more of this, he showed in that Champions League game in Brugge, he could cut inside and smash at top bins as well. And I want to see more of that because I want to see more of fullbacks thinking about that. But I just think there's a real value when you know you're setting up against a low block of that repeatability. Like, keep giving me the ball. I'll keep going. He's also very good at winning corners because of that, which suits us.

34:14Like Leeds, we got five or six corners. maybe, like really stacks them up. And that brings, we have, that's where we definitely have an aura. We don't have an open play aura. We have a set piece aura though, that I think is worth a couple of extra set piece goals a season. And I think this, the one Maduike scores, I think that might be one of them. That might be the, God, this is the sixth Arsenal corner we face. One of them's going to go in in a minute type thing. And there's like a real panic about that. So I really like that. I haven't liked him coming into games as a sub yet. I don't really know why that is or why that hasn't worked yet.

34:52But I like him starting in games like this. I thought he was very bright at the beginning against Forrest as well. The goal didn't come when it should have. Was it his cross to Martinelli or was that someone else who put the cross in to Martinelli to miss that chance?

35:08Elliot:I can't remember, Tibbs, what we normally ask you, mate. You tell us. But yeah, I just think that. If it helps, I don't even know what chance you're talking about. Trust me, I do. Oh, against Forrest. Yeah, the back post. And again, that's why I was kind of comfortable him coming into this game. I don't like him as much coming off the bench. I want Martinelli doing that job. But from the start, I quite like Madaraque. Yeah. Clive, quickly on Madaraque, we'll move on. Yeah. In the end, he's a super athlete. Really good one-on-one player. there's hardly anybody he can't run past but when he runs past you've just got to slow down a little bit just because you don't realise mate you've left them about five yards behind you you haven't got the Alsatian is not chasing you to the fence you've left the dog behind right just slow down and do the last thing and I thought you could see I felt that he really slowed down on that cross he slowed down and clipped the ball in you can tell that he's taking time with his ball striking because his corner at Anfield didn't take corners when Saka didn't play.

36:16Elliot:And we had Declan Rice take him on that side. Now his corners are improved. Which means he's practicing on being coached. And it's what we want. When you buy a player with a lot of raw skills and people say he's about to explode. Well, to explode, the GA number's got to go up. I've got to trust your pass off the side. When you run, you know Saka does a little thing when three people come over and he finds a little pass off the side and we're off. if your pass off the side is bobbling up to the man then it's not going to work right it's got to be proper quality and i and i thought his quality of striking the ball was really a step forward and then i do think his role is very important particularly given the marino news because potentially you there's no reason why we couldn't play saka inside you know and there are options that suddenly become available you might discover somebody if he continues his form on the right thing then not only does he become a right-wing option but he allows other people to move inside and become an option so sometimes through an injury you can find something exciting you can discover people i'm sure people are shouting to their devices right now but what about him moving what about him moving what about him moving you can do all of these things if people like nonny madweke really take their chance you know and that's really key and i i'm the injury he's really a blowhead here.

37:36Elliot:Honestly, I think he is. But from that, you might find something that none of us have thought about and I think it should be, could be quite interesting. Yeah, and I think a great moment for him that kind of showed him putting it all together actually didn't lead to a goal. But Gabby, big Gabby, drove this insane driven pass into the right wing to Nani. Just an incredible pass. Just fizzed it up the pitch right onto Nani's foot. He drives to the byline, sort of the typical, powerful, quick, decisive action, and then his cup back to Kai is perfect. And that's why you play Kai, that's why you play two up front.

38:15Yoko Ress is attacking the goal mouth, and Kai is arriving late, and Kai just has it taken off his toe. Would have been a sensational goal. Just a little unlucky, or it could have been a penalty. but it was a great I think it was a great validation of that group of that concept but also Nani using his athleticism and then also slowing things down and getting the decision right at the end of the move so it was really good I'll stay with you just for a second on Zubimendi obviously coming off a game that will be known for a critical error that led to Arsenal going to pieces against United in that game he did have a header from top of the six yard box where he's very unlucky not to score it's great saved by Lammons and then we winds up scoring from the exact same situation here.

38:54He has really shown a capacity to play in all three-thirds of the pitch. And I'm so glad he got this goal and had such a good performance because I think it's cruel on him that one of his signature moments of the season that he might have been remembered for might have been the goal he gives away against United. So quick thought on Zubomendi bouncing back and getting the goal that maybe he should have also gotten against United.

39:18Elliot:Yeah, obviously United was a traumatic day for everybody but he had the mistake which was a nice headline but there were so many other people making mistakes in that pitch and by not showing their true personality and the fact that he actually showed his personality to receive it when other people didn't want to maybe cost him and cost us so um it is what it is right you can't dwell on these things forever signing of the season for me loved loved his player just bounces around the pitch, completely changed the rhythm of our team. He's brought out things in other people, which I think he's promoting other people with his play.

39:55Elliot:I think the timber thing is really, really good. Inter-Sat, Declan Rice around him, whoever's in the 10th position doesn't really matter. He plays football on their wavelength, and it's quite clear to see, and that's why he settles so quickly, because he understands the game, the rhythm of the game. He understands that his clean play on the ball is really important to what you want to do. And I always think that player provides a bounce and a rhythm. And he has that to his game. It's very difficult to describe it, you know, when someone just does the right thing at the right time. Tim watches the women, obviously, a lot.

40:30Elliot:I think Kim Little provides a lot of that bounce and rhythm to the team. And you can just see it, you know. And I think he does this for us. And Declan Rice is a massive insurance policy both ways. but this guy is the one with the, he holds the keys. And I think he's been a wonderful player. And it's funny because I think about our big lineup, right? Kai Havertz is big. Rice is big. You know, Gorkas is big and muscular. Nani's big and physical. And, you know, the big lineup. And then you think of the diminutive Spaniard Zubamendi. He's not that. He isn't. First of all, he's taller than I think he is.

41:02And second of all, he's in the 97th percentile for aerial duels one this season. He's just incredible in the air. So even though we think of him for his technical level, he can get up he can contest he can compete physically he adds to that in a way that maybe we don't fully appreciate um tim let's talk about victor yorkras a bit so it's just the case that like if you're the striker then people are going to focus on you when you're the striker who is acquired in the summer people are going to focus on you more and when you're maybe not returning on investment what people expected yeah even more especially in the summer when you've got all these players moving and you go Akatike too, his credit looks pretty good.

41:40He was a player we didn't go for. Sesco, the one we supposedly wanted. He scores a good goal this weekend to get them a win late. It's on people's minds. I've said this on podcasts before. I can see the flaws in Victor Yorchus' game. I'm not going to sit here and pretend he's been as good as I would like him to have been when we went into this season. I also think when I watch us, the best us I've seen this season usually has him in the side. And I think there's a perception that Kai would come back and just become the striker, and I think it's now given Mikel some interesting options to have played Kai and Yokores together in consecutive games and seen it work.

42:22I'm curious how you evaluate him, because he is a player that, of course, divides opinion, that, of course, has limitations, but again, now he's come away with another goal. I'm so glad he got it it's fantastic center forward play that goal and it comes after the narrative very easily could have been the chance he didn't take when he's sent through by leo brilliantly by the way yeah and and doesn't get the shot away so i'm so glad he got his goal because i think he really impacted this overall team performance and was really good but how do you think about that and and the decision to stick with him and him rewarding michael for that yeah i i think on reflection there's a couple of things happening around him maybe to bring his game out a little bit more definitely Kai starting the last two games and um you know as Clyde was saying almost more like a second striker thing and that's something we had like as I did that for not in the same way but did like the second striker thing actually when Jokeres was out to kind of support Marino the fact that Havertz has started the last two games suggests to me that Marino might have started on Saturday had he been fit and he'd have done that role and it that feels quite feels quite deliberate of course it's deliberate but you know what I mean like doing that two games in a row that means the manager's curious about it and he's investigating something and thinking you know maybe he's thinking okay he's looked a little bit isolated he's getting his head chopped clean off with an axe by centre-backs in every game and the referee waves it away and you know maybe he just does need that kind of second striker perhaps he does need marino or kai havertz a little bit next to him almost like again double strikers and my brain goes to that chelsea carabao cup semi-final we literally did that like in a very literal less subtle way arteta did that from the bench and it looked like he was having a look at it um at that point we a 3-1 up, looked like we were going to go 4-1 up until we chuck the ball in our own net again.

44:26But that tells me he's curious about that. That tells me that he's looking at, he's exploring ways to get more out of this player. I think the other thing with that chance as well, I mean, it's a great ball by Trossard. I think Erdegaard gives him the, no, no, no, I don't think he does. But I think that ball from Trossard forward first time, that tells me a conversation happen there about the way we're playing and it's forward first time guys stop playing with your food stop doing 360 turns and passing backwards um because erdegaard did one he definitely did one later in the game where he did his little spin because he won't use his right foot and i was expecting it to be a 360 but it was a 180 and the ball went forward and that tells me the manager said guys forwards a little bit more and um but yeah sorry so on to jokeres it feels like the service hopefully will get better as a result of that imaginary conversation I've just projected but that maybe they want to put a little bit more support around him and say actually let's let's put another you know another brick wall kind of near you and um listen when he went through on goal and again he got caught by the defender because again couldn't get the shot out of his feet we saw that against Kairat but Kairat haven't got the guys to catch you up when you do that neither did inter yeah there were pictures of wardrobes in my whatsapp group um and i was only responsible for a couple of them but the goal he scores no one else in our squad scores that goal and and i think he's cottoned on to the fact he's getting nothing out of referees defenders taking his head off he's not going to get the foul he scores that goal he scored it into he scored at chelsea he scored at leeds he got his goal against kairat probably should have have more he's on a good run of form and he's scoring goals and he's on course for 15 to 20 so as much as I don't think my eye will ever meet him and as much as I reserve the right the next time we're nil nil and struggling to break down a deep block those pictures of wardrobes are still in my camera roll um I have to give him his credit because if you'd said to me at the beginning of the season he's going to bash one in against Leeds he's going to bash one in against Chelsea on the goal line and he's going to get 15 to 20 i just said that's what we paid the money for yeah and for the record i don't think the i don't think it's pace that costs him the the chance that he doesn't get i i think he can do better when he does get in front of a defender of using his body to prevent them from being able to get back across him i also just think and we've seen it he has seven games this season where he doesn't have any shots.

47:08He's learning and has to learn that that extra touch to set yourself so you can get the real power that you want and the real accuracy you want on your shot, you don't have it. You're going to have to snap those shots off quicker. If you look at the goal Eketike scores, I think it's his second one this weekend. Eketike's second goal, I think it's a toe poke actually, but there's no backlift. He creates a little yard of space and pokes it and it's gone and in it goes. there isn't the space to set yourself to get the kind of contact you want every time. And so maybe that's a bit of a reminder there.

47:40But he gets the goal. I'm happy for him. I want to say also, look at what's happening, this beautiful competition. Because the big oaf starts and he gets a goal. So Gabriel Jesus is like, well, screw that. I'm going to come out and show you how to get a Tekker-style goal. And he does Cruyff turns and spins a man and curls one into the corner. and if that creates a competition there and there's really good energy between those players and a good camaraderie in the group but also a competition to have your place in the team that's going to bring out the best in everybody it seems to be doing that I want to talk Odegaard a bit and some of the subs and things like that and Clive I'll bring you back into this but we do have to get a few brands mentioned because if I don't people are going to yell at me to say I don't know who to give my business to and I don't want to be responsible for that So one of the companies you can give your business to quite easily is Nord, because NordVPN is the VPN that lets you watch all the content that's otherwise geo-locked.

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51:34Sorry, I kind of cut that section in half.

51:36Elliot:I get plenty of time. Don't worry about me. I will say one thing. If I'm going to sit here and say to people, we can do every type of game. We can play low. We can play high. We can do everything, open play, close play. You need a center forward like this in your squad. And so they just become, if people don't like him, we're going to get another one like him because we need the ability to run him behind. And he is a very mobile target man, and we don't have that. So for me, it's just a matter of how good he can become. And he is improving, so fair play to him. Yeah, I mean, the binary of someone is great or someone is shit means that you need to be great because if you aren't great, people are going to call you shit.

52:18But like Victor Yokras is a classic example of a player who is an important contributor to a team that's about to win the league and maybe other stuff. And while he may not be the star player, he is a good contributing player. and you know it's easy to lose sight of how much these transfer valuations have ballooned but what we paid for him is actually a reasonable price to pay for a a player who's part of your squad and as part of the squad he's contributing goals he's playing well and I think he has a nice little relationship there with Kai Havertz so to be interesting to see how much we're able to to see that more because we'll keep an eye on Kai Havertz being able to stay fit and stay out there on the pitch but clive i mean the manager took his struggling captain out of the line of fire took him out of the team he put kai havertz out there he let martin odegaard sit on the bench and what does martin odegaard do he comes on the pitch and he plays like a man possessed and he passes forward and he passes for his time and he looks great and he gets an assist and he had some beautiful balls spun up the pitch from a deeper position and he just looked a lot bouncier and more direct and I thought it was a great performance and it it springs from him being taken out of the firing line a little bit being able to come in when there's already a lead and maybe the pressure was just eased a little bit so how encouraged were you by what you saw from Odegaard and the manager's willingness to make that change when it clearly needed to be made in my view yeah very

53:42Elliot:encouraged and I think we all we're all online and we can all see what's happening what people are saying and yeah everyone can see that maybe there's a bit of a angst about slowing play down and and so when you get into this sort of washing machine of opinion as soon as he does that in the game you can almost feel the tension in the crowd and then when we actually lose a game where he doesn't have a strong game then he obviously explodes and i've done my older guy stuff way back from the villa away game but i slowed down there recently because i think it's important obviously he's very important he's very important to the squad he's very important to how we play and in this game he came on as if he'd read every single tweet that was ever written about him and decided to play left and right and play first time almost every time and his movement off the ball to receive the ball behind people's shoulders was brilliant he knew where next pass was going and he made the game of football look ridiculously easy and he made you look at your phone and delete your drafts and honestly it was that that's his talent that is his talent and to be honest against Kyra you can already see that he'd taken note if I remember rightly he had two headers in the box and I've watched a lot of him and I can't remember two headers in the game if not one header in the game in the box which means he's putting himself into that second striker area so he's had the message move the ball get yourself into the areas where you can affect the goal hard you know and he's had the message and I do believe that this game was the perfect game plan for this team, then maybe another day you think, you know what, we need to put the ball in our pocket and the other team don't even get to see it.

55:25Elliot:And then we're going to be all screaming for this guy to be on the pitch. So I just think we've got to be cool and calm about what we see. Every game is different. The opponents are different. The requirements are different. And it can change within three days and you look stupid. So I'm really pleased that he played the way. I wouldn't change anything about his performance in this game. I thought he was outstanding and he took the game away from these completely and like to your point look at how the Jesus goal is fashioned he's in the left half space between the lines Calafiore picks him out with a nice little stab pass between a couple of leads midfielders and he turns and immediately feeds it in on the slant to the striker in the nine position with his back to goal and what Jesus does from there is world-class quality but the funny thing is in that goal you see the things I don't think we do enough Calafiori, that pass to Odegaard is on, but it's between two leads players.

56:19It's a difficult little progressive pass to see and play right because if you get it wrong, you're up the pitch, and now they're running the other way, but he plays that pass. Odegaard has to receive it in space. Very quickly gets himself turned and faced, and then he plays a pass. We don't play enough. The little diagonal right stab ball into the center forward. So great, great to see. We played this game two ways. We won the physical battle early. Then we brought on all the techers. Odegaard, Eze, Cal Fiore, Martinelli comes on, Jesus comes on. And then we killed them with technical quality.

56:49As they tried to come back into the game, they got butchered. And by the end, what you saw was an Arsenal team that wasn't afraid to be winning or win the title, an Arsenal team where everybody wanted the ball. We ended this game with the red arrows. Floods of Arsenal players going and attacking. Everybody wanting to get on it. If anything, we probably could have had five or six on another day and maybe even should have. Tim, just quickly on... First of all, I think it's interesting that Martinelli came on to play on the right. He has an amazing, beautiful delivery to get the goal, which is great for Gilchrist.

57:18But look, the thing I could not have imagined, I've been ridiculed by the way, rightfully so, because I think I had two preseason predictions in a row that our breakout player would be Gabriel Jesus because I thought he'd come back and show the level. I was just two seasons early going into this season. I finally had given up. I said, he probably won't even play for us this season. I didn't think he'd factor. He's factoring. And he's factoring in a way that will create some competitive fuel for the center forward position. But not just, he's not just a foil for Yokorest. He is showing real quality.

57:51He has scored real goals against real opposition that are real quality. He could have had two or three in this game, but he takes his goal brilliantly. I don't think we have another player in the team that can score a goal like that. Maybe Bakayo Saka. So how surprised and impressed are you by Jesus showing that he can really matter for us in a season where I don't think I saw that coming. Yeah, confidence is a massive thing for him. Look at the kind of gollas he's scored this season. They've come off the bench when we were three goals up against Leeds and Aston Villa. Aston Villa with 3-0 up, curls it in, no problem, bottom corner.

58:29Obviously, he got two goals at Inter when the game state wasn't like that. they were more kind of strikery goals which is great um but i just i think there's something about he's so talented on the ball like he can he can twist anyone's blood he really can but with jesus he gets in his head a little bit and you know he's quite unfortunate in terms of he's i think he's quite an anxious character and he has the world's most expressive eyebrows which really, really give him away. When they're on the slant, Elliot, you're in trouble. When he's got the Ancelotti eyebrows going on, you're in trouble because he looks like he's about to burst into tears.

59:09When they're level, you're good because this guy, he can go around anyone. He can twist and turn and everything like that. And yeah, he was just feeling it. There were just some games where he really seems like he's feeling it and there are some games where he's not. there's been some listless performances and what keeps happening at the moment you get a couple and you go he's done isn't he and then he does something like that and uh you know and just as you thought you were out you're all back in but ultimately we had to temper our expectations of what we could expect from this player it's never going to be unfortunately i don't think what we saw when he arrived but it's can he contribute in a meaningful way and he is and i think he really is.

59:55That's much better than even I thought at the beginning of this season. Yeah, well said. And it's funny. It sort of sums up Gabriel Jesus in a way because he has three really good chances in this game. One is an open chance to slot it in the far corner after a sensational bit of play, by the way. Odegaard drops deep, plays this amazing first-time pass around the corner to Rice. Rice just does what Rice does, right? Buccaneering run all the way up the pitch. Probably could score himself but feeds it to Jesus. Misses the first-time shot. Header. snap header front of goal timber cross it's open hits it right at the keeper but the goal comes from there's no chance on his backs to goal he he cruifs it back and forth curls it beautiful goal right like sometimes he just he just has the technical level to do incredible things but he's never going to be a consistent finisher but he has proved very very important for us we even got to see Eza come on off the left in this game for Leo Troussard brief cameo Mikel had a lot of Ezza questions in the pre-Chelsea press conference as well, which we might come on to.

1:00:58I do want to start to shift gears to talk about the Chelsea game. So Clive, just a finishing thought here. This is, I mean, this is the tonic. Four goals, everybody plays, you use the big squad, you show two faces, you do it in a weekend where it puts the pressure on City and they show they're not up to it. Villa, by the way, also lost, but I think, look, Villa, even if I want to be polite to them and complimentary to them, which I don't, but even if I do, their injury situation, their squad situation is such that now they probably are in the shit, candidly. So I think they need to hold on to, as Unai Emery would love to tell you, a top five place rather than going for the title.

1:01:34But this was the tonic. So any final thoughts on little bits and pieces that stood out to you in this game before we shift to the semifinal?

1:01:42Elliot:Yeah, I loved the game. Everything about it really teared up my whole weekend. I'll tell you now, Arsenal win a game of football. It really affects me. I'm so happy. this weekend I did watch the Villa game I think it's an interesting point and obviously Brentford went out 10 men it's got a great goal for Watara what a good buy he wants for them and basically I'm looking at this game I'm looking at the low block Brentford have got and I'm watching how Villa try to break it down and it's a little bit like watching us they go wide a little third man run comes inside the block tries to put a cross in even the cross gets blocked it goes out for a corner I think they had a similar amount of corners as we do because i'm trying to look at the game where it's going and i'm seeing a lot of the same football because of how teams set up and the villa game i know if people saw it you're not watching any of our low block games exactly the same you score you don't we're a little bit better on set pieces they do they are so we break the game open a little bit more often and we got a few more points in them that is literally it you know and so so yeah i I hope they fall away and we have more days like Leeds because our away form in January has been outstanding.

1:02:52Elliot:So now we need to flip it around to the home form and the atmosphere we create at home, which starts against Chelsea. And just as a final note here, it was 2.19 xG for Arsenal, 0.15 for Leeds. They had three shots worth 0.15 xG. That's not in the first half of the second half. That's in the game. And I just think, again, we've talked so much about our identity being defending. I think it was great to get a clean sheet and get a clean sheet from a defensively dominant performance. The four goals feel good, but we need more clean sheets. I realized we had a run of two of them just recently, but it was five from the last 20 before this game.

1:03:32So five clean sheets from the last 20 games. So that was a big part of it as well. Mikel Arteta spoke about that too. He said he loved the defensive performance. and you know just uh on on Odegaard quickly Mikkel on contributing from the bench he said it's not about the player's position being safe it's that the role can change because the game has different needs and we play every three days the fact that you can contribute and help the team to win from a different angle I think it's a great thing to understand it's not so easy for certain players but Martin and the rest have certainly done that today so we shift gears Clive we have a one goal lead over Chelsea um they got a big win from two goals down to West Ham there's a very funny social media post that says like teams think they've turned a corner when actually they've just played West Ham.

1:04:16Teams always think they've turned a corner when actually they've just played West Ham. So we'll see that about Chelsea. They were two goals down. They win it 3-2. They score a lot of goals. They concede a lot of goals. They're also shit kickers and we know it's going to be like that against them, especially if Caicedo's there and DeLapp is there. Your thoughts on the importance of this game, getting through it and how to approach it?

1:04:33Elliot:Well, I haven't seen the Chelsea press conference yet, but I saw a headline coming out. And Liam Rossina says, Arsenal have not won anything for five and a half years. So I'd be sticking that up on the dressing room straight away. I think they're going to put a lot of importance on it. I think he will for his own CV. He can barely lose, right? Because we're expected to win. We're at home. We're 3-2 up. And they rested seven players at the start of the game against West Ham and then got it all wrong. And then basically they turned it around. West Ham were very unlucky to lose that game. and they deserve more.

1:05:10Elliot:So obviously all of us have got the frustration that we should have won this game by two to three clear goals in the first leg. And now there's a bit of us thinking, you know, damn it. This should be over already. You know, so they're going to come in with everything to gain. So I expect a massively tough game. Sometimes I forget when you turn up to these grounds and it's a semi-final or a cup game and the away support is significant. and it has a much bigger influence on the whole atmosphere, on the referees, etc. And so I know it's going to be hard. I've seen it with Newcastle, I've seen it in Manchester United recently, I've seen it.

1:05:46Elliot:And it does have a massive impact on the day. And so, yeah, we have to be our best and pick the right team with the right balance with the right level of physicality. This may cost us a lot, actually. I think it's going to cost us a lot of energy. We have to put a lot into this. As a club and as a group of fans and players, we have to give this everything because they're coming they're young they're coming for us they want to they can turn us over this validates a lot of their project you know this validates a lot what they're doing with their manager choice with their player choice with what they're doing with their player training model so we have to deliver on this one we really do but go back to the first leg there was a gap there wasn't there there was a gap but they had a number of players out and those players will be back and so you know Reece James didn't play, Cole Palmer didn't play, Kassé didn't play.

1:06:38Elliot:And so they're going to have a few players back. And so this is it, mate. This is all on. I think it's going to be tough, but tough games when you win are the ones you remember. So can't wait. Yeah, look, of course I want us to get through, but Tim, on Saka, Mikel said, we have to wait. Today he was better, but we have to wait and see how he responds and then make a decision. It doesn't look like something too serious, whether he's going to be available for tomorrow or the weekend, we'll see. I can only say what I believe and what I believe is that he should not play tomorrow and we should make sure that Paikai Osaka is fit to play for the Premier League game at the weekend when we have a chance to go nine points clear and City go to Liverpool so that we can win the thing we've wanted to win for 22 years, which is the Premier League.

1:07:17The thesis of this big squad is we have a lot of quality. We literally just won at Leeds with Nani Maduike. And if you can't get through with a one-goal lead against Chelsea at home with your big squad, so be it. But I would use the squad to make sure that we're fit for Sunday, so Saturday. So do you see it the same way or are you going full tilt everybody that's available to try to get through this one? Yeah, no, I'm with you on that. I don't mind the rest of the team being strong or whatever. Again, other than the center backs and Saka and the goalkeeper, which obviously doesn't count in the same way anyway.

1:07:56Do you think he'll go with Kepa again? Do you think he'll go with Kepa again because he was pretty shaky? Yeah, that is a fair point. I do think he will. I think if we get to the final, then I think it'll be a real conversation and a real coin flip. But I do think he'll stay with him on this one. But yeah, like every big team, we have our core players, Rice, Subamendi, the centre-backs, Saka, the goalkeeper. Other than that, I don't look at anything as rest or rotation or anything like that. It's just different players come into those positions. But yes, I would not risk Saka. for all the reasons you suggest.

1:08:33I think Maduweke has just had a really good game. Keep him in, keep him going. You know, sometimes as well, he came on, didn't he, at Stamford Bridge earlier in the season, didn't have a great time in that. But sometimes you need to get that out of your system. I remember a few years ago, we played Man City in the League Cup and Man City completely rotated, but they started Nasri. And the manager at the time would have been Mancini. he said he wanted to get it out of the way so that when they came back to the Emirates in the league Nasri will have done it um you know that kind of playing against your old club thing which I think that was more about atmosphere but like it it seems to me he came on as a sub-stamp bridge didn't go particularly well it's got another chance here I think um maybe Kai Havertz as well although I think enough waters under that bridge um at the moment that he won't think about that too much but let's not play kai a third game and no no no no but i'd i'd like i'd like maduake to get that chance anyway it's like okay you've you've had a golden assist at the weekend you're playing your old club now go do it and chelsea rested kukurea was one of the players that they rested they put a lot of value in what they think he does to saka um i mean he doesn't really other than kicks him and gets booked after six minutes.

1:09:56But they think that that really works. They've convinced themselves so much so that they've rested him against West Ham. And actually, I think that might be a bit of a value in giving him another problem, actually, and saying, there you go, that was a waste of time. We're putting someone else in. So, yeah, I think there are lots of reasons to keep Madueck in for this game. Yeah, I thought, by the way, Mikel made an interesting comment. He was asked about Miles Lewis-Skelly in the pre-match presser and with Marina going out. And he did say that Skelly, Miles Lewis Skelly can play midfield, that that's an option, that that's a position that he knows well, both deeper midfield and more advanced midfield.

1:10:29But just the reason he played him as a fullback is that was where he could break into the squad. So kind of nice to hear because I think Miles Lewis Skelly could have a very bright future in midfield, one to think about. But Clive, I mean, this is the thesis on a big squad. Like, I don't think you have to risk Kai three times in a week. I don't think you have to risk Saka on an injury. You have Mascara. if you think one of the center backs is in the red zone, you do need to be careful. This is a good Chelsea team, but you have a one-goal lead and you have a big, talented squad. So I think it'll be interesting to see how Mikel uses it.

1:11:01Any sort of final thoughts on getting through this game and taking it seriously? I mean, Mikel said this is the most important competition we're in because it's the next one. That is the right mindset. But obviously, he has to be thoughtful about who he's risking.

1:11:15Elliot:Yeah, I think Ben White might see some time at this game. I think that just makes a bit of sense. It's how you use the players that are really quiet. I think Timber's magnificent. He's had a strong period recently, so get him out. He has to get the left back when people have some injuries. So sit him down. Sunderland could be massively, well, it will be massively important. So Ben White can obviously do the game and if anything happens, he can come on. So, yeah, just quickly on Myles, he's an interesting player. I love the imperfect players who are developing. they can see the weaknesses and I look at him and think, oh my God, you've got so much in your game.

1:11:53Elliot:Your natural ability is to compete with people. If anything, people say he's a number six. I actually think he's an eight. And I would play him one up, you know, and say to him, get on the ball and go and be far more attacking. You know, and I think I'm far more pressing and collision based. So, the weekend game in the FA Cup could be a really interesting one to see how we can squeeze more out of this orange positioning and see what players can do. So I'm already looking forward to that one. But yeah, I see Ben White coming back in. Calif sure he looked slick when he came on, didn't he? He does.

1:12:28He looks slick, mate.

1:12:29Elliot:He just looks like a player that's born for this level and everyone else is going to have to carry his wash bag, I'm afraid. He's just very, very good. And so, yeah, what we do in midfield, I want to see one of Reis or Zubimendi come out to start the game. But I'm also conscious they're going to have their very, very best centre mids they can have. and they're going to really go in that area. So I think we may see somebody drop out against Sunderland, but I do think this game is really important for the club, really important for everybody. I think it would hurt to lose. Everyone's expecting a City Arsenal final.

1:13:03Elliot:I think it would hurt if we couldn't be where we should be. If we lose a one-off game to Man City, the world won't end. But if we don't get to the final, if we put all this work to get here, come on. We've got to do it, right? So I take very few risks and make sure that we can compete with them and then we make changes before the end. You don't want to invite too much pressure, but I do think Chelsea have been conceding a lot of goals and they're not very good back there. And if we want to play like a team... Well, that's the thing. I think you could play Martinelli, Nani, and Jesus if you wanted to.

1:13:32Jesus and Martinelli go well together. I'd rest Jokras, who I think is much, much better on seven days rest than on three days rest, because I think you can sit a little deeper. You can defend a little more compact. give Chelsea the ball a bit and go hurt them on the counter I don't have a problem with that

1:13:47Elliot:the first thing you have to do with this team this team of characters I detest you can show them no run ability you've got to have the ability to receive the ball and turn out of contact and challenge them so do not encourage a team with 9 ,000 fans behind a goal that they can dominate us in one-on-ones. And so it's a day for people like Madiweke and as a physicality in the one-on-ones with the carrying to make sure that they don't get encouraged. You know, and I just remind myself as you were talking about what we didn't do against Manchester United. We didn't have enough of that. They got encouraged and they found their badge and they ended up winning the game.

1:14:33Elliot:Okay, two great goals. They still won the game and they were comfortable. We have to make them feel uncomfortable with our ability and our physicality. We've also lost Marino, who I think would have played in this game. But I think we have to think about the start of this game and assume the way we thought about leads and take away any encouragement from them and then play our football thereafter. Yep. I would just emphasize, we do have a one-goal lead and we will be at home. So I would like to see that anybody Mikel thinks is approaching the red line, he's confident going with the guy who's the next man up in this situation.

1:15:05I think we'll get it done. I think we'll go through. Tomorrow we'll have some deadline day content. and an instant reaction. Saliba 50 is the code if you want a few quid off. Try it for a few quid for a month to see if you want to join us on Patreon. Otherwise, you can join us here on Thursday. Arsenalvisionpodcast.com forward slash Dallas if you want information on that. We're going to leave it there. I'm about to pee in my pants, as it turns out. So, Clive, thank you very much. Thank you very much. Tim, thanks. My pleasure as always. And for me, you know what I'm off to do. We love you. And we will talk to you on deadline day and after Arsenal 10.

1:15:36Chelsea, now.

1:15:58We'll be right back.

1:16:09easier than setting up that new digital picture frame. You don't say. Yeah, they're even picking it up tomorrow. Talk about fast. Wow. Way to go. So about that picture frame. Ah, forget about it. Until Carvana makes one, I'm not interested. Car selling made easy on Carvana. Pick up fees may apply.