Arsenal Are Top of the League

34:20He flapped at that corner and it could have been 1-0. You know, we dodged a bullet there. I think after that, it was mostly a comfortable day, but I'm not going to pick on Raya too much for that one. So, Paul, the Odegaard injury happens and I think it is probably worth discussing Zubimendi just a little bit more. He creates both of the goals. he creates the first goal with the pass in that winds up leading to the Eze shot by the way great contact from Eze and if it falls to Rice he scores he he he's the one who makes the chip pass to Timber for the penalty that we got but his introduction really did seem to change things and for people that maybe have struggled to connect to Zubimendi's game this was a great opportunity to see exactly how he influences a game and you know when we talk about drama in a game one of the things we're not seeing anymore this season is our deepest midfielder with his number facing goal running running like mad to recover anything we're just we're very much in position organized well and and this was a game to really appreciate his influence so obviously that was a turning point not that we couldn't have won it had Odegaard stayed on but uh do you do you see it similarly uh yeah like like I say I I feel we were creating the chance chances before that right we had two three situations where you're like certainly two big situations before the zuba mendy substitution where you're like uh we thought we had a go we thought we should have had a go go met scrambles so the play was good but certainly with zuba mendy there was a more recognizable structure and uh i think it's a barbell thing with him he had two key moments with us outside of that he was mostly tempo right it was very arteta at dm where the world is saying well he didn't do anything he just moves it from side to side he almost most of his game is to not be the story which uh like phenomenally generous mentality where you don't care that you're lighting it up or you're not lighting it up if it needs it you go for the zip otherwise you just keep you just keep looking for is it better to play it to the left or to the right is it better to play it back or to the left or to the right and like he's just the classic tempo guy that for years i didn't really get in football but now you know you you judge a tree by its fruit how do you judge zubimendi by how well we moved the ball around yes by his fruit by his plums yeah yeah um and he moves it around of like it's not him i'm not the story i'm just the guy who passes it to the other guy and there's just this sense of tempo and but like he's a guy avoid avoids the horseshoe okay you need the players to help you avoid it but he helps you avoid the horseshoe by maybe going back to the same side again by zipping it up to a guy who's califiori's in midfield for a reason those guys are moving all the time knowing that zubimendi because that's the thing when you move into that spot you need the guy who'll find you with the simple ball and he does it all the time he'll put but it still won't look like that much but meanwhile our team we had no horseshoe of death despite the fact that that was exactly what they were looking for there was zero zero of horseshoe of depth with the with this there was always as a califiori moving timber how often did you see timber not be fullback or even kind of over to the right near sack like they were just interchangeable uh there were two three times where it was like oh sack no that's timber who's through yeah yep yeah and the fullbacks was such an interesting case study because you look at what Liverpool tried to do with the fullbacks they recruited this summer, you know, flying, overlapping fullbacks, stroke wingers in Karakas and Frimpong, and it hasn't really clicked for them.

38:22And you look at Timbers' involvement and Calafiore and the role we have for him. Clive, the dynamics of how our midfield is interacting with the fullbacks and the forwards, it's very, very difficult, I think, to pinpoint a position or a role they're taking up. And it does seem to be a little relational in the sense that they are going to create overloads and they are going to create combination opportunities and and make sure the distances are good between players um and and they're both doing it brilliantly but i'm curious your take on this because there is a lot more i what i would regard as as positional freedom for all of these players in terms of the roles they're taking up yeah they there is um there is and they're asking a lot more of each other they are

39:08Elliot:much more collision-based and really working hard off the ball. I mean, I've just re-watched a Martin Odegaard, and I remember the Eze challenge that he didn't win. And I remember thinking, Odegaard's now taking on extra responsibility to go into tackle because he knows he has to. Because the reason why he knows he has to is because he needs more of an all-court game because there are more players around that can play the game of football for Arsenal Football Club. So I need to do more. And this is happening. So classic example this week, Olympiacos, we played two different fullbacks and Declan Rice sat down.

39:42Elliot:And in the first half of this game, the best three players on the pitch were the ones that didn't start the game on Wednesday. Two fullbacks at Declan Rice. And this is what's happening in the squad. We're able to now bring people in with an edge. Tim, I don't know what he had to do. He had his wheat a bit for breakfast. He was everywhere. He's incredible. What a player he is. Absolutely everywhere. Storming through people. Just literally driving into space with control. like he's looking like LeBron running downhill in this game. And then you've got Califuri. Well, I need to rewatch it five times to work out what he was doing, right?

40:15Elliot:Because he was everywhere again. There was freedom there. So when you've got people causing problems and moving and driving and popping up in areas, why are you going to pass around? You pass through, don't you? Because you've got people showing to pass through. I do think there's a wonderful simplicity about our attack at the moment. and supermendy's part of it but they're all part of it when there's a chance to move and it was a lateral diagonal or just run through they're running through and how many times you heard me say the word we need to run through the back line a bit more you know just i guess bored you for a year with it you haven't heard it this season have you you know so um because we're running through we're running through those lines and the thing that differentiates with mendy is is I always think he's, when we did our scouting on him, I actually uttered the words, he's the most important Arteta signing of his era.

41:11Elliot:And I sort of blurred it out. What have I said here? What have I said? But I sort of stand by it because I think directly what he does is exactly what this team means. He sees the opportunity to pass and he passes it. If he's on his left foot, he still passes it. If he's bobbling, he still passes it. He passes it where it's meant to go. And this direction, this simplicity of forward direction, is driving forward movement. Movement activates the pass. When movement up front, suddenly we're passing to the runners. And suddenly teams are being shattered. They're being split open rather than standing there comfortable in their distances in a block.

41:48Elliot:So I think the evolution of this team is just brilliant. And I don't think it's one player. I think it's everybody. It's the behaviors of everybody. when you see people reacting always look at turnovers Elliot as a measure look at turnovers whether defensive turnover or offensive turnover defensively mate the moment the other team gets the ball the manager claps his hands and the rest of those troops just steaming just steaming and get the ball back immediately and when we have the ball you just look at you look up and straight away there's three runs not oh how can we get it to sack and then we start moving it's just three runs and sometimes sometimes you know what sometimes we just boot it forward you know that we just boot it forward there's no how many times i'll be interested to see the data on on possession loss for gabrielle and sliver sometimes you know what rather than take it down go back to keeping and roll out they just boot it forward and we put the backland under pressure and that'll be a possession lost actually it's putting west ham under pressure until they break and I don't think we tired teams out enough with our offensive penetration and just playing in the right area so it's been a real transformation and I'm not saying every game is the same because it's not but against these lower teams, mid to lower teams, this is how you need to do it.

43:09Elliot:You know and my only issue really in the last two games, Olympiacos and West Ham is that Martin nearly missed a chance in the first five minutes against Olympiacos when he shouldered it and Eze missed a golden chance in this game when he's got over the bar. If we get those games, I think they're both 3-0 games that we've won 2-0. So let's just sort that out, shall we, if I'm being pernickety, because then we can really up the goal difference because those goals should have been finished off. But that's it. I'm loving the evolution, mate. I'm loving it so far. Yeah, and this is what I mean about serenity.

43:45Serenity is 46 touches in the opposition box to eight. right serenity is out shooting a team 21 to 4 out xg them 2.77 to 0.49 serenity is having periods like in the first half where you go 11 shots to zero and you have 72 percent of the ball we finished with 68 these are just games that you wind up cruising through and i do agree if as he scores in the 13th minute there this might become one of those five or six nils again but you know at the end of the day it was a low drama game and that's what you're looking for i want to talk a little bit about Victor Yolkres' performance. I think maybe different perspectives on it.

44:25I want to talk about Declan Rice, who hasn't always had his best performances against West Ham, but I think was as good as can be in this game. And a little bit about maybe just some of the things that we have coming up ahead. So we'll do that. But I know at this point, you're saying, Elliot, what if I need a hiring partner? Or what if I need a VPN? Or what if I need to shave my privates? And I don't know how to live my life without hearing about those things. So you know what? Let's hear about those things now. Imagine buying your kid a toy only to find the batteries aren't included or buying furniture, but missing the tools to build it.

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45:41and this uh this hiring partner thing uh indeed that that's the one there you go indeed is a hiring platform where you can attract interview and hire all in one place when it comes to hiring indeed is all you need the whole idea behind this and i you know i look at it this way i think hiring is a really really bad experience both for the hiring entity and the person trying to get hired because there's so many sites you have to monitor there's so many um algorithms and ais and things like that you have to navigate. And even if you are the most qualified person, you can feel like you're never going to get noticed.

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46:48There's no monthly subscription, no long-term contracts. You only pay for results. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. And listeners to this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at Indeed.com slash Arsenal Vision. just go to indeed.com slash Arsenal Vision right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast indeed.com slash Arsenal Vision in terms of good supply hiring Indeed. Is that enough of that? Indeed. Got it. Okay, Paul. I wanted to ask you about Victor Jokorash before we come to Declan Rice.

47:20And I think possibly this is one that's going to divide opinion because it's a game where he doesn't score. I don't think it's a game where he was super involved. I think he completed five passes in this game. And, you know, for that reason, I think he could be hard to see. But having said that, I also had a lot of people reach out, Clive included, to say how important his running was, you know, and the way he pushed the defensive line back. So I think we should get a little section on Jokers. There's always, like, anxiety about striker at Arsenal, I feel like, over the last several years. and there's a need, an urgency to sum up strikers.

47:58It was that way with Kai. It was that way with Lacazette. It feels a little bit that way with Victor Yorchores. But what did you make of his performance in this game, Paul, in terms of the good and the bad or the indifferent? Let me tell you what I liked about him, which was every time I checked for, we put in a lot of good crosses, squared balls, not quite cutbacks, but certainly crosses, square balls. He was always where I wanted him to be. six yard box outstretched you know got the paw out there reaching for the ball it wasn't a game that maybe it was his name in lights but he was everywhere i wanted him to be doing everything i wanted him to do because that would mean that he's in the middle of their low block so probably wasn't going to be a game that uh short of knocking in a toe poke or getting his his noggin on the end of one of the crosses that comes in where it was his chance to shine because we had them so deep i mean our pressing numbers were off the chart as well it wasn't just they were sat in our pressure was relentless it was a uh well it was on the chart actually because ppda numbers are the lower the better right really low ppda number really high defensive line from our side so we just had them crammed in he was in the center of it banging bodies and we had a lot of good situations of balls bouncing around so in a way I think it's a hard game to judge him on what I would almost judge him on was the did the Yacoresh thing work in the sense of was it the horseshoe of death where we couldn't find a striker or actually were we moving them around were we cutting them apart and we did continually with Yacoresh always in the right spot when those balls came in so I really quite liked that aspect of how we played with him had the ball just been a little closer to him a couple of those times um i i think he comes away with a goal in that and a little bit of generosity within the team it's nice to see like saka wanted to take that penalty and maybe it was the occasion that was in it with his four thousandth game for arsenal or whatever we were celebrating at the time but it was a day that saka wanted a goal and saka was angry and he had the the the tissue up his nose because he's just been smacked in the face and unlike Saka when he's angry taking a penalty and that's another dynamic kind of it's a minor thing but it's how well these you don't see these players fighting over who takes the penalty there is an understanding within the team and a balance and I think it's emblematic of the fact that Jokres has come in and very quickly started to play a specific role within the team that everybody else can key off.

50:47Yeah, and you referenced our PPDA there, that's passes per defensive action. So the lower, the better. In other words, how many passes the opposition can make before you make a tackle or an interception or a ball recovery, something like that. So Clive, you messaged me with some praise for Jokeres in this game. Obviously, the big moment that I think everybody got frustrated, Leo plays Rice in, underlapping in the 51st minute. he slides it across and Yoko just misses what would have been a tap in you know sometimes those go for you sometimes those don't we saw it go for him when as a assisted him against I want to say Forrest um but but moral of the story is I watched this game and much like you and Paul I saw a player running into the right spaces and doing the work and I think it is important to point out that he is the one player we really don't have a squad option for right now and he's playing a lot of football.

51:39He came in a little bit late in his training cycle. He looks a little faster to me now, a little leaner to me now, but he is playing 90 minutes a lot. And I think, and I'll double check this while you're talking, I think he's right up there for us in terms of outfield player minutes. So, as it stands right now, he, yeah, he's just behind Zubimendi and Gabby for minutes for an outfield player. So, the fact that he's still doing all those runs for 90 minutes I think is a good sign. What was

52:08Elliot:your take on him yeah so i think the plan was for him to come off and marino to come on because rice got injured marino had to come on for rice and he had to stay on if you look at the three games newcastle limpiacos and west ham if off top of my head calculations he was the only outfield player to play all three 90s right so and so and he wasn't meant to play the 90s so this is why i praised him because late in that game mate he had the caravan out he was pulling it and yeah he was still running into areas on that chance he just couldn't get there i mean i reason why sometimes i can see things really clearly at the emirates particularly he's coming north bank end so i could really see his efforts under stress in the second half they're right in front of me and i just i just couldn't praise him higher for what he was trying to do for the team what he's added is purely directional.

53:06Elliot:He's become a directional force for this team. And other people are taking the lead from him. I do think there's a message for other people to be more transitional in their behaviours and movements, particularly when we turn over the ball. But he leads that. And he's always there. He's always at the right side. He leads the space to run into. He curves his run. He's a classic traditional centre forward. A mobile target man. That's really robust. He hasn't quite figured everything out yet. but he's quite, you know, he likes the contact. And the centre-half of the Premier League, I mean, you have to leave 2-1.

53:42Elliot:You have to leave 2-1 around him. And when you leave 2-1 around him, then it's got to be spraising somebody else. I think if you're playing Gates Mourinho, you could go man for man, right? Go man for man. He's not going to run you. I'm going to fight him. I'm going to put my arm on his back. I'm sending him back towards his own goal if he's not already gone there already. Do you see what I mean? I'm going to come from wide areas. You know what I'm going to do? If your Dane is in wide areas, I'm going to double up in wide areas and kick their ankles off. Does that sound like last season? Probably a little bit in summary.

54:09Elliot:And that's all it was, right? So I think directionally, he's done an amazing job. Now, his best game for me was Newcastle away. And funny enough, the game before that, Port Vale, he had a rest. And he came out of Newcastle and was ferocious in a game where we needed him. We needed exactly that. And you know, it's one of my many lines, Elliot, that you've grown used to, is that I used to say that Saka was the first guy over the top. well you know what yorkarez is the first guy over the top now he's the lead soldier right he's the first guy over the top to go and take the fight and other people these teammates must love him they must love him the fact he's taking all his contact away from them he's taking attention away from them i think he's brilliant what he's what he's actually doing and so when i heard the press conference so on the ir i sent you a note uh i sort of sent a note i said look i'm not sure he looks like on data but i've really impressed with him so when i heard the press conference up as a miclar test i just got in there and hugged him paraphrasing i got in there and hugged him i thought yeah because it's a team game right and in a game where he probably wasn't meant to do 90 and he everyone could see he was done yet he kept going and that's the sort of stuff your teammates will love you for me you haven't checked out you've kept going for everybody to keep that score the way it was and to give us a target and i thought he's really really good he will come back but we'll see the best of him when kai havertz is back and the two of them can rotate in that position and then we're going to see a fresh forward much like we saw a fresh califurian timber for this game and it was the difference and that's what that's got to be the future going forward yeah it's interesting because michael made a comment about califuri that i think relates to yorkers at some level too.

55:55On Cal Fury, he said a lot of dynamism, sometimes a bit chaotic, but I think his dynamism and the spaces and situations that he can create are very difficult to control for the opponent, especially against a team that is very well organized. You have to disrupt their organization in order to create chances. And I think we've done that really well. And I think Yoko Resh plays a similar role from a different position, disrupting their organization because you have to follow his runs. You have to repeat those sprints. you have to respect his ability to get him behind you and battle with you and that is creating openings in other places and i realize that can sound like an excuse for a player that's not banging in the goals i just happen to really believe it and you know you think about like timber we're playing timber a lot you know chris has a hundred more minutes than timber in all comps the only zubamendi by a bit and gabby by a little bit more have played more minutes so for a player that relies on physical power and running and strength, you know, I think he was very much brought in to be one of two with Kai and in the group.

56:58And now he is the group. And by the way, I think this will benefit him long term because when Kai is back and when he's being picked, maybe more horses for courses or used a little more sparingly where he has a full tank of gas, i think that's going to be a huge advantage to us in the run-in so i'm very very excited about that

57:17Elliot:and you know not to overstate it clive yeah just just one technical thing this is the one thing there's always a we've all got development opportunities haven't we one thing developer on when when he's back in the play up right when his balls coming to him the service is not always good it's not always clean so he's not like kai kai's really good at this he uses his body really well and he uses his head really well because he knows he's going to win the aerial battle. So he's got to make a decision what he wants from that duel. If he wants to lay around the corner, he's got to get into wrestle contact a bit earlier and then disconnect.

57:55Elliot:And what these defenders are doing very cleverly, they're getting into a battle with him, he's leaning on them, then they are disconnecting on him and he's falling over and he's looking like he's not set. If you're set and you get contact, the referee gives you the foul. If you look unbalanced and you're not set and the defender's disconnected and there's no body to lean on, then the defender will, you're 50-50, the referee will let it go. So sometimes the ball's coming up and he's not getting the foul and he's not helping around the corner and he's coming back. The plus side is he's still got to engage those defenders, which is really good.

58:29Elliot:He's pinning them. But there's room there to improve. If he can get the wrestling first, then he disconnects, sets his feet, whatever happens next he's in charge you see what i mean by that i'm not expecting to jump off the ground and win all the headers like kai does i think in the penalty box he can attack headers but he's not a vertical jumper per se he's a runner but i just think that little detail there backing in holding pinning making sure you keep the defender there that he can roll off but set your feet so the referee will give you the foul he will not give you the foul if your arms are up in the air and you're not set.

59:05Elliot:Do you know what I mean? So, um, small detail stuff. It'll come in Portugal, mate, if the defender touches you and you fall over, you know, we've been there. It's a free kick, right? Straight away. He has to realize this is the Premier League and there's Michael Oliver's everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Paul, obviously there was a chance for your Chris to get a goal. It's a penalty. Um, I think, I think it's a foul that continues into the box. So I'm comfortable with it being a penalty, obviously. Maybe the PGM was saying, eh, we kind of screwed you last time. So what do you make of Saka taking the penalty there?

59:42Yeah, maybe it was the occasion, but there didn't seem to be much debate. There was a little bit of, oh, Saka's got the ball, so somebody else will take it. But that wasn't how Saka had the ball. Saka had a ball like a guy who was going to take it. And like I say, I think he hit it mean and angry, banged it into the corner. no keeper really apart from donnarumma if he jumps that side and goes about half a second early might have got there but uh saka buries it it was kind of a no drama thing i didn't have there are days i feel a little more nervous depending on who's stepping up and how but like i just i didn't really question it i thought he was going to bury it uh you know the the bloody tissue hanging out of the nose is always a good look and um i don't know if he still had it in at that stage but he was certainly pissed off and angry and he talked he talked to i think he was asked afterwards about uh you know getting stick from fans for doing a bit of limping on the pitch which is it's a bit like booing your war wounded when they come back from the war for uh you know looking for a little sympathy as they're on the crutches with the band-aid around their head but yeah he kind of said you know he takes it as I thought he handled it lovely he says I take it as a compliment that you know people are trying to take him down all the time but you saw it in this game like every time he got it every time Martin Odegaard got it unfortunately they're coming in to take you out and you see Saka's like the joke of it all is how many times does Saka skip over the incoming tackle that's coming in for him.

1:01:22If you think he's looking for every collision, every foul, the best footballers like Messi, right? He's the archetype, or like Maradona, or like Cruyff, or like Pele. They don't want to go down because they know they can hurt you with the ball. They're going to try and ride that tackle. Saka rides 9 out of 10 foul tackles that come at him. it's only the egregious ones that clear him out so yeah I think he plays angry he uses that as fuel I think he used it as fuel for the penalty I don't know if that was enough for you on the penalty that's where I was going with it

1:02:04You're on mute, man. Elliot, you might be on mute. And this might be the most sweet moment of my life. Well, you know, if you wait long enough, you get your comeuppance. But yeah, so it's a beautifully struck penalty. It's 100 goal involvements in 200 games. I'm sure Saka was probably aware of that. Didn't seem like there was any issue with Jokras. I mean, Saka just took the ball, placed it, and slotted it. this is a game where he's missed a penalty before this fixture a couple seasons ago and a very painful 2-2 result so maybe wanting to put some things right there and I'm sure Yorchrist will take penalties again in the future but this was a day when Saka wanted to do it he's the man he took the responsibility he put the game to bed and to my eye Clive Saka is playing a little more untethered from his wide position a little more freedom to come inside and combine if you look at his touch map there is there is more involvement in central spaces um you know i don't know if you see it that way do you yes uh i'm reading clive say i'd say face i'd say that's a no he doesn't

1:03:09Elliot:see it that way well it's it's pretty it's it's what's happening right it's been happening for okay well then you are seeing it so we settled that master the bleeding obvious this since almost the first time with Bilbao that's when it started to change for me that game that first 25 minutes told me the new system you know that's when I first saw a double pivot so Bilbao in pre-season I mean that's when I first saw a double pivot that's when we saw Saka running down the middle getting on to the chances scoring from a central space and that's when it all changed for me that day I thought okay this is different so um so yeah we've got there's a lot more freedom there he's on the left he's everywhere it just makes sense it's just like it's just so it's so pleasing um on the penalty i was actually pleased he took it by the way um joccares was a peak caravan carrying period he was absolutely knackered right the caravan was swaying in the wind mate this was not the time to give him the ball honestly it was brilliant decision in everything about decisions that were made on the pitch after pitch in this game were perfect substitutions everything the only thing that went wrong was Declan Rice coming off.

1:04:19Elliot:Otherwise, Marina comes on for Yoko Reyes. He gets a clap and happy days. If the early goal goes in and we're tuning up, Yoko Reyes takes that penalty, comes off, gets a clap and sits down for two weeks and goes to the national break. Everyone's happy. That's the only thing that went a little bit wrong was Rice's injury. And so, yeah, we spoke with this on Friday, didn't we? What we're doing in these spaces with double tens almost and letting Saka roam around is just brilliant. And this is what we need to do and i'm a big believer in fullbacks are the key for everything almost like the balancers they give you everything you need we have this thing in in the uk and maybe even globally where we think the best attacking fullback is the one that runs around the outside and overlaps well i just think that's so that's so basic the best of attacking fullbacks is the ones that can combine with other people in forward areas and they can do really a lot of things on the ball i think tim is equally as good as attacking fullbackers as white and the reason why he's more technical on the ball in different areas and he drives with it his crossing may not be as soft shoot do you see what i mean i think right i think white's got a really good cross but one of the negatives from the olympiacos game look at the positive time with top league and it's way beyond my expectations but it was quite interesting watching white and miles coming in the week, how one reconnected himself to the team, to his units, and White couldn't quite reconnect himself because he had a different partner in his centre-mid.

1:05:55Elliot:He had a different partner at White Wing, and it was just hard for him to reconnect to the group, to the unit, the triangle, which you can all close our eyes and see from last season. We knew where every one of them was standing. Now the game has become more, he says using buzzwords, relational. He's having to reconnect to the team in a different way. And I think he's finding that more difficult. And you can see the arguments between him and Saliba. And you can see a little fraction there because he's fighting for his game and he's fighting to get back to the units. When Miles steps in, midfielder by trade, connecting to units is just what I do.

1:06:36Elliot:You get on the pitch, you just pass to people around you you roll around them and he found it really really easy to connect to the units again and timba does it very much like malto but much more bombastically he's just so quick and so yeah and he's creating he's creating space for saka he's been cradled on occasions he's been underlapped on occasions but he's got support in different ways and it's um he's our best player right and all this crap we had to listen to about handbrakes and stuff like that. Well, we all knew as soon as Odegaard and Saka and Eze on the pitch, that conversation is going to just disappear.

1:07:11Elliot:And it's disappearing now, isn't it completely? And there is still a handbrake of sorts because we don't play wildly open games. And if you're not an Arsenal supporter, that looks like a boring game of football that was just played. But that's the kind of boring that an Arsenal supporter should want. A boa constrictor choking the opposition to death with 70 % of the ball, 47 touches in their box, conceding almost no shots and taking all of them ourselves. If we're getting 20 shots a game and giving four away with 70 % of the ball and 90 % of the box touches, that's going to work for us. Whether other people like to watch it or not is not my concern.

1:07:51Paul, a thought on Saka's kind of tactical flexibility now? Yeah. So I'm really glad Clive went to the fullbacks thing because that's kind of what I saw in this West Ham game what I've really liked with the Timber evolution of that position is that he doesn't we had this thing we did with Odegaard White and Saka which was really effective where they got really close together and the opposition team then had to pull all their players to that side and crowded in well Timber doesn't do that and Odegaard's roaming around the pitch and sometimes he's not there and so kind of like with mo salah they leave saka in lots of space so he's isolated 1v1 against his his fullback and the other thing is timber is starting to pop up in that right eight channel pushing the back line becoming the the second striker at times and that freedom of the midfield filling in the gaps that allow timber to be the more aggressive of the two between sack and tear we're seeing an evolution of the attacking game of timber in a way that is not going to be like ben white it's playing two timber strengths yep um he's a baller california on the other side is mixing it all up he's he's cutting out to the right left wing he'll overlap he'll underlap that gets trossard in infield playing around the middle getting into dangerous spots they're just mixing it really nicely on both wings so that they're not really nobody's really on the wing they'll rotate in and out zubimendi will pop up there rice will pop up he'll drop back that total football we've just got very very total football whereas the odegaard white sack of thing that works so real well so well is a very tight triangle everybody knows what's going on the kind of can't stop it when we're in form but if we're a little out of form or it's a heavy day or like the the ground's heavier they haven't cut the grass we can get a little bogged down on that side of things in a way that uh this more total football fluid everybody moving around anybody can end up end up anywhere in the front five slots apart from your reference yaka resh rice super mendy as a buzzing around popping around um i don't know how you know who to mark as long as you're hitting some kind of form and rhythm and that's what we're started to do over the last few games yeah that's what that's what Mikel sort of referenced with disrupting them and creating that chaos and it's it's it's really interesting to watch and just see how it is evolving and and the way it works with different players and I will say by the way we had a lot more left side involvement and then Bakayo Saka comes back and it's like maybe we'll get it over here more it's just really interesting to see how the ball finds its way to the good players you know yeah but you might be surprised like i what it did strike me how much leo played more than i thought he did a lot of clever balls crossed they didn't quite like the left hand side is doing plenty i still agree with you more balanced than we've seen in the past for sure i mean we brought that left side into the game we have fixed the left hand side i mean how many times did I say left-hand side we're not, you know, I was stating the obvious.

1:11:11You weren't there so I was doing the captain obvious and I'm like what's coming from the left-hand side? Yeah. I've stopped that. Look, to me, the funny thing is we're sort of rounding the corner to being done with this and we haven't really talked much about Declan and I just want to quickly get on to him, Clive, because I had him as the man of the match actually. He scores a goal, covers every blade of grass. His touch map is worth going to look for if you can find it because because it's all the touches everywhere. He really looks to me like he's fully powered up now, and it was a shame to see him go off with that back problem, but of course he's going away with England anyway, so I guess joke's on us.

1:11:49He gave a daggering look, a very stern look at the West Ham supporters after scoring. I think he wanted to make a point in this game. He certainly did as far as I'm concerned. So any quick thoughts on him, Clive, and Declan Rice? It might be a slow starter in some seasons, but looks like he's fully up to power now.

1:12:10Elliot:Yeah, I think he's got a new addition to his family, actually, I believe. I don't know. I believe it. I'm not sure if it's true or not. But maybe Wade didn't go to the Spanish trip earlier this season. He did his own work back here. He's got himself going. And, yeah, Declan Rice is not a problem. I also football club after Timber. I hope he's the next contract we look at, you know, because then we will be in a really good place going forward for the future and for now. So I think he's been a transformator since the moment he's walked in. The things that scare me about a football pitch is controlling momentum of game and creating your own momentum.

1:12:50Elliot:And he does that really well. He controls momentum from the opposition and he creates some for us when we really need it. the last and the thing i love about him is he does it when the going gets tough so in the last phase of the newcastle game he doesn't go missing say i'm tired he goes up to a new level we need to get something out of this game so i'm now turning it up in some of the easier games i think he can let it pass him by i don't bother i don't think i don't think for a second that's an issue because he plays every minute of every game for any manager they want him to play so when he takes a time off during a game.

1:13:23Elliot:I don't mind it at all. So we're in control of. When the going gets tough, mate, he's there. He's right there in the critical moments. He's been a wonderful signing for his club. He's completely era-defining. Although I said Zubmendi will be the most important player, I think the player we needed to get us to the next level was this guy, Declan Rice. And I think now we've got a complimentary partner for him, which we've got on the same age timeline. So really, really good. so I'm pleased in the last game there was a game I said something controversial on the podcast I think I was proven right there after that I think Arteta was mad at him when he played West Ham as a home game maybe in a cup game or something like that and he was gone mate he was not playing well and he hooked him he hooked him and I said then it was a message to say stop this crap don't let these lot get in your head when you're taking corners play your game you're a good player leave them lot behind you know And in this game, he played really, really well, scored his goal, give him the stare earlier, and continued being brilliant.

1:14:30Elliot:It's a shame he didn't end the game. There's a little clip of him saying goodbyes to the coaches, all the West Ham coaches after the game. And I thought, yeah, this guy is a quality, quality individual. I'm so glad we signed him. And there were people in the West Ham end that were trying to clap him, you know, to clap him and applaud him, because they know what he's done for that club, right? And they're not all Mickey Takers, shall we say, although they're the ones you hear the most. There are lots of people in that crowd that are really trying to support him because they know he's done right by them.

1:15:02Elliot:They know he's left for a bit of quality. He's never said a bad word about them, always referenced them, always referenced people like Mark Noble who have really mentored him and supported him for his career. And yet they're still giving him stick, you know? So it's a fair play to him. Just leave it behind. You're an Arsenal player now and just do that when you go to their place. Can I just stay with you for a second on one final topic then, Clive? There's been some discussion about the atmosphere at the Emirates. I have an opinion on this, but as someone who goes infrequently throughout the season, my opinion carries a lot less weight than someone who is a season ticket holder who goes to every home game.

1:15:33So do you have any thoughts on the atmosphere?

1:15:37Elliot:I do think the atmosphere is fine, you know, but I'm not – I've done with my singing and going around the country, 24 Kansas Stella under my arm. I've done that two years ago, right? So I know some people, that is their day. What I will say is there are games and there are games. When you're playing, even though I was nervous, I don't think anyone else was about this game. It's a 2-0 game where we scored early, scored to around the 60th minute, and the game saw itself out, right? So I think there's an edginess in the crowd that we're actually quite good and we're waiting for it to mess up a little bit, shall we say.

1:16:16Elliot:But there was no issues. for me there is no let's just do this properly right there is a nervousness in there i think underlying edge there and we all feel we are really quite good and there's a pressure on us to win it now there's no excuses so when you're watching something cracking just let's get this done can we can we just get this done and just keep going just keep going it's very early at moment there is an edginess there i think going that's one side of things that that could be affecting the atmosphere people talk about balance they talk about this i'm honestly i'm not an expert to talk about that i'm just telling you how i feel in the ground what i will say again when you get a couple of home games in close succession get different crowds going different people going tickets change hands etc and going to football is quite expensive you know so you you're not going to get the same people that can afford to go three four five times in a month on occasion which has happened before it's quite expensive it's not easy now to to support the ticket prices and the cost of the food and the drinks in there so i never really want to criticize on the atmosphere as long as it's a positive supportive atmosphere that's the only thing that that's the only job i feel i have and i'm not going to be singing songs massively but i'm enjoying the football i really enjoyed saturday in my own way right so i didn't notice it and i don't or i don't want to see that don't want to see us develop our own crisis.

1:17:42Elliot:Let the other teams have a crisis. We don't need to develop our own crisis right now. No, just think where we are and what could be ahead of us. It could be the best year of our lives. It really could be. It's the best squad we've ever had, on a squad perspective. And the age is, this is going to get better. And so we've got a lot to be excited about. I just don't want to see us develop our own crisis when we don't need to. Yeah, I agree with that. Look, I'll give my view on this just quickly, and I'm not sure that anybody particularly needs my view on it, but I think there's a few things. First of all, I don't think there's much atmosphere the grounds of big clubs.

1:18:18There just isn't. They're very expensive tickets, and most of the games are not high jeopardy. I've seen Anfield. You never walk alone at the beginning. You never walk alone at the end, and a lot of silence in between, unless it's a really hyped-up game. Okay? Chelsea, Old Trafford. Eddie had, I mean, there's no atmosphere there because there's no fans. The Emirates, these places can make big atmospheres for big games, and they do. And they can make big atmospheres when the game is at a fever pitch, and they do. You know, I was there for the Newcastle game two seasons ago when the title went down to the last day.

1:18:54We weren't favored to win it. West Ham, you know, versus City was always going to go a certain way, but it's one of the best atmospheres I've ever experienced. The singing of the song at the beginning, the intensity during the game, the game didn't go very well, so there were some lulls, but it was really incredible. I just think the fact is, and Clive touched on this, ticket prices mean the younger audience that you'd like at football can't always be there. Young people are going to sing more, right? Us middle-aged men, we sing a bit, but, you know, the days of singing your lungs out.

1:19:24Elliot:Sing when we're drinking. That's all I do. Sing when we're drinking. And so, and yeah, and there is expectation and there is nervousness. That atmosphere that everybody pines for from a few seasons ago, you're never going to recreate because of two reasons. One, the post-pandemic experience, right? It was pent up. And two, the stunning and unexpected rise to a title race. We were on a hundred point pace until roughly February. So I just don't think you can recreate that dynamic. I think you have to accept, and it's a shame, but with the price of football and the demographic of football right now, at the big club grounds, atmosphere is going to be intense for certain fixtures.

1:19:57And for others, it's going to be a bit muted. And I understand if people don't want that and want to address it and try to take it on. but I think framing it as a specifically Arsenal problem misses the point. That's my opinion. I know there's a lot of people that have views on this and feel very strongly and have more of a right to have a view on it because of their position like Clive as being an everyday match goer and so whether it can be fixed or should be fixed or what can fix it is an issue but I'd simply say don't kick your own club over this. This is not a unique to Arsenal situation.

1:20:28I think it is just football for big clubs in the modern era. You know, so look, if the media want a narrative to knock us with, you know, let's let's float something out there that doesn't really hurt us too much. It seems like narratives wise, it's been a good week or so. All the heat, the spotlight has swung to Liverpool and all the questions suddenly asked of them. Really no football questions being asked of us right now. Suddenly, Mikel's a genius or our squad, like they're always going to have something. but uh you know maybe maybe we give them this as a narrative to yeah fine if there's a bigger

1:21:06Elliot:discussion to have around it's it's the cost of football i i think i i think it's a lot i've reached stage in my life where i can do it but not everyone can do it that's why you see tickets on the exchange people think i can get a few quid back hopefully it sells then when it doesn't sell they end up going anyway because they don't want to miss out on the losing their ticket it's it's expensive Elliot for many many people it really is and I I sympathize with that I think that's a that's a bigger discussion it's not just expensive at us it's expensive across the board and I think there's there are there are opportunities within the game to do things about that as a whole and think about that where money gets sent to and spread about the game I think we could do more when it comes to ticket prices more when it comes to food prices we could do more when it comes to sending money down the pyramid, and we're sending money to the wrong areas of the game.

1:21:58Elliot:You know? And so we need to do more. But that's a bigger discussion. Yeah. That's a discussion that everyone should want to have, right? So for the health of our game, and the sort of thing we can do in the international break, when it comes to a relegated near, I shouldn't say that, when it comes to a lower team, West Ham, when we're in control, we're looking good, and you're going to get what you get. When we're playing Real Madrid at home, trust me there was no discussions about atmosphere was there yeah yeah so yeah and and it's been that way for a bit i mean look you can go back to highbury and there was a reason they called it highbury library right i mean i wasn't there i'm sure there were amazing atmosphere days at highbury but you know i don't think this is a new new issue necessarily either okay uh we are top of the league we will be for the next two weeks at a minimum my expectation is we will for the rest of the season and it'll just be a nice easy comfortable run of the title i don't see there being any bumps along the way.

1:22:52I do think there'll be an interesting conversation to be had about Manchester City and whether they are prepared to reestablish themselves. I think about what Salah did for Liverpool last season. I look at Holland right now and it's that same kind of completely unstoppable force that he is becoming. The inevitability of that player is a little bit concerning, but for right now, we are in a great place and we should enjoy it and we will enjoy it and all this week you're going to get the Cup Winners Cup content. You're going to get some great stuff over on Patreon that we'd love to have you there for.

1:23:19But most of all, we're just all in this together for what I agree with Clive will be a year of years, a season of seasons, and let's hope that's the case. Okay, we'll leave it there, Paul. Thank you. Woohoo! Thanks, Clive.

1:23:30Elliot:Thank you very much. Okay, before we get out of here, as I mentioned, we've got the Cup Winners Cup series coming out, the first few episodes this week, and the way we're going to do it is there'll be a couple this week, a couple next week, and then in the next international break, we'll complete the series with the final four episodes, and it's really fun to be able to do something like this, but because I am, what's the word, untalented when it comes to pre-produced content. I thought it was important to work with someone who does brilliant content. And if you remember a while back, we'd mentioned the founding football series about the birth of football in America and the history of the sport here.

1:24:04The man responsible for that, and you'll be seeing more of that series in the lead up to the World Cup, but the man responsible for making that is Kent Malmurus, and he is responsible for the Cup Winners Cup series. And so it is my absolute pleasure to invite Kent back on the pod to talk a little bit about this series. So hello, Kent. Hello, Elliot. I think the word is busy, not untalented. I think that's the word. Busy is a euphemism for untalented, but I'm going to accept it on this occasion. So I think the best place to start is just to say what excited you about getting the chance to tell the story about the 94 Cup Winners' Cup against Parma?

1:24:40A lot of things. Ultimately, if you listen to Founding Football, all, you understand that I just like history and I understand that we don't think about history as often as we should anymore or the context of what has connected us to a club over the years. I mean, you and I are both Americans who fell into the sport far too late, weren't able to watch games every week and tried to figure out what it was about the club that made it special a bunch of different ways, none of which were grounded in our childhood. And so we miss things. And I wanted to bring back some of the key historical moments that we missed as Arsenal fans and unpack them, do a deep dive and try to make sure that they were just refreshed in everyone's memory who wasn't there.

1:25:24The European Cup Winners' Cup is really probably the shining moment in our European history. It's the biggest trophy we've ever won and people don't know about it. Even fans in England don't necessarily know about it if they're young because we just live in an immediacy era with social media. So it was a really fun project, something that helped me learn a lot about a team that I love and hopefully it'll do the same for others. Yeah. I think it's a fine line, right? Because we certainly don't want to constantly bask in reflected glory. I think there are a lot of people that feel like, all right, we get it.

1:25:58We went invincible. When do we get to win another title? And I certainly understand that impulse, but a club is about community as we always talk about. It's certainly about the current season that we're in. And I think we're in a very exciting season, exciting moment right now, but it is about understanding the journey that the club's gone on. I know Tim does all these history pods for us over on the Patreon and they're great, but the chance to bring in a number of different voices and, and create some curated and edited content around a European trophy, we definitely did win. And it is easy.

1:26:30You know, I know sometimes people say, oh, so-and-so is the leading this ever in the Premier League era. And there'll be people who'll be like, well, there was a whole era before it was the Premier League. It was still English football, right? I love the Champions League. I want us to win it. I think it's a trophy that would be really special for this club. But the fact remains that before the full commercialization of the European game, there were other competitions. They were valued very highly. They had great prestige and status, and we did win one of them. And it's an important part of our history that, to your point, I absolutely didn't know enough about.

1:27:06And while I'm sure there are many listening that feel they know everything about it, it's still exciting to go back and revisit some of those things. You know, Fever Pitch, great book, great movie, great chance to relive the 89 season in a totally unique kind of way tied to that storyline. So you had a chance to tell this story by talking to some really exciting people. So you want to give us a quick rundown of some of the people that you spoke to, why they were particularly relevant and helpful in trying to craft the story of our victory. I always look for different perspectives. So unironically, Tim Stillman is, of course, one of the guests, because when you're talking about Arsenal history, you have to have Tim on.

1:27:40Had Clive on as well. This was a really important moment in his young fandom. And he talks about that eloquently as ever. And with the passion that you'd expect from Clive. had Amy Lawrence join us and you touched on a comparison to today. She talks about that with a lot of really interesting comparisons between the George Graham era, the Mikel Arteta era, and why really fans of this current team should reflect back on that team to understand a little bit about what's going on with how we're trying to control games, how we're being a bit tactically evolutionary in a Premier League right now that, as you've talked about extensively, is not producing as many chances.

1:28:19Talked to Nigel Winterburn, talked to Alan Smith, talked to David Hillier. So three players who played critical roles in different parts of the pitch. And we also talked to Gary Lewin, who was incredibly young, but was part of George Graham's staff as a physio and has returned back to the Arsenal family because he is currently the women's physio. So really vast perspectives that bring a lot of different points of view to the story, which is what I'm always looking for. Yeah, through a supporter lens, a journalistic lens, a part of the group lens, whether that's as a player or someone who's now just working inside of the club and has a connection to that time.

1:28:57And ultimately, my hope is that people will love this, that you'll give feedback to us about what you think of it, because I think there is scope to do more produced content that tells Arsenal stories that we don't always have the time to dig into. Look, let's be honest. Like everybody else, when we win a game and Liverpool lose a game, I want to hear something about that right away, right now. But I think there is enough time in the international breaks, I think are the perfect time to reflect on things about the club that make it really special. And to do that, hearing from people that give you a really diverse and unique perspective on the history and what happened.

1:29:35So Kent, just as a final point you know i don't want to give away any of the good stuff here but were there some things you learned through this experience about the club or about that accomplishment or about that era at arsenal that either um increased your connection to the club or changed your perspective or just added some context that you maybe didn't have before you went into making this all of the above there's no question you touched on it europe has changed and i didn't fully appreciate just how much has changed, how even what was considered the second tier cup in Europe was still pretty significant and pretty prestigious because there weren't nine teams from England participating in different European tournaments.

1:30:17It just didn't exist. So you had essentially the top two teams and that was it. So the cup winner's cup on a given year might have been the better of the two tournaments. And I break that down in pretty good detail. Also a lot of connection to some of these players whose names we see all the time because Nigel, for example, is still incredibly connected to the club, works for the club, but just understanding how he got there, how he became part of the famous back four, how that all unfolded. Yeah. Again, something Clive certainly understood, but I don't, maybe you didn't quite as much as you will after listening to this, um, brought me a lot closer to the club and understanding how homegrowns worked, to understanding exactly how frugal the club needed to be in a season when we've spent a record amount of money.

1:31:03It's really significant how much it's changed and yet how much the heritage of the club is really grounded in moments like this. And you'll hear in the interview with Clive how he and I really agree that maybe this was the gateway to making Arsenal a global entity in a few different ways. And that's a pretty powerful concept. Yeah, and it's an interesting time because it's 1994. It's a few years past, obviously, the glory of the 89 season that I think even modern fans today are connected to, both because of the historic fashion in which that title was achieved, but also the way it's been represented in dramatic, in fiction and non-fictional works.

1:31:42subsequently obviously in 96 Arsene Wenger arrives and I think that's a bright line where a lot of fans who were not around at that time really know that period know the Arsene Wenger era really well um at a time when the the sport and the league was globalizing more and you could really follow it and also the names became more household um over that time but in 94 you fit in that sort of interesting period, right? Before Arsene Wenger, post-89, in this sort of final era of George Graham. And so I think it feels a little lost to history for me. And by the way, I know there are a lot of people listening who I'm sure are like, it's not lost to history to me.

1:32:24I was there, or I remember watching it, or I remember celebrating it madly. And if you do, hopefully this will just bring it all back to you from a new perspective. But for many of you who fall into the camp, I do, which is sort of embarrassingly underestimating its importance to the club and the impact it made, this is a chance to really connect to it. So Kent, just as an overview, I did mention, I think, eight episodes, but do you want to just say sort of how the episodes are broken out and what people can expect along the way? Absolutely. But before I do that, I just want to say if it makes you feel any better, Nigel, Alan, Clive, Tim, they all talk about how this has been a forgotten championship and also how 91 as a league title in the George Graham era was overlooked for all the reasons you just described.

1:33:0589, so historic, so dramatic. You fast forward to George Graham's absolute fanatical focus on Europe and the 91 season was really kind of a critical fulcrum in that pursuit. The whole team changed, the attack changed, and that's a good segue into talking about how the eight episodes are broken down. So in part one, I talk about the gravity of Europe and really go through how the competitions have changed. than I spend an episode talking about George Graham, because I do think there's a lot to be said about George Graham and his significance to Arsenal. The anatomy of our roster, one of the things that he did was turn over a team full of stars and craft it in a very specific image that fulfilled his tactical prowess.

1:33:50Along the way, then they turned to a Cups team. So episode four talks about how really we became this team that won the league twice in a couple of seasons. And course, that led us down a path of winning the 94 European Cup Winners' Cup, but it had a stigma attached to it. Then we go through exactly some of the key attributes of that team. Chapter five is about the famous back four. Chapter six is about the attacking flair of that team. Now, that might be a controversial concept because the attack kind of fell off even with Ian Wright in tow. And then chapter seven is about the midfield and how George Graham got the most out of a particular engine.

1:34:29Chapter eight is entirely focused on the final and some of the redemption stories that go through it. So yeah, I didn't really give away the key elements, but that's how it's going to break down. All the episodes run about 35 to 45 minutes, really quick hitting, a lot of different interviews, all packaged together in every single one. So as I mentioned to someone that listens to my episodes and kind of edits them says, it feels a little bit like a conversation at a pub. And that's exactly what I was going for. Well, that's awesome. Yeah. I think people will really like it. I can't wait to hear the feedback.

1:34:58As a reminder, because the interviews have been cut up to fit the format of the produced episodes, what we'll do, we'll put the episodes out for everybody to the first week of this international break, to the second week of this international break, then again, the following international break to wrap up the series. What we'll do over on Patreon is have the uncut interviews. So if you just want to hear what didn't make it into the full shows and hear the uncut interviews, because I think they're too good not to put them out. So we'll put them out over there, just less structured, but obviously then you can have the full experience with it.

1:35:29And this is something that I think is a chance to not only feature great creators like Kent, but to feature important Arsenal stories and do it in a way that we just don't get a chance to with the absolutely blistering pace of the news cycle in football today. So it's a really fun opportunity to do something like that and hopefully something that we can do more. So Kent, first of all, congratulations on it. I think it's great. I really appreciate you coming on and talk about it. I'm really excited to share it with our community and do more work like this in the future. So thanks so much. Thanks, Elliot.

1:35:58All right, we will leave it there this time. Look out for those Cup Winner Cup episodes dropping on this very feed in the next few days. Look out for obviously all the fine patron content we'll continue to do throughout the international break, including Friday Night Clive, which will be back this Friday. Don't forget, we had the Clive and John McKenzie tactical summit we did last week, which I really think was great and can't recommend highly enough. But wherever you are, whatever you do, we're just glad you're here part of this. joining us for what is not just a great league season, but similar to 1994, a European championship season as well.

1:36:28So we're very excited for all of that to happen and for the Open Top Bus Parade in May. All right, enough of that. We'll leave it there. We love you. And we will talk to you after Arsenal 10. Full of note.

1:36:51Bye.