Arsenal Earn a Worthy Draw But Rage at VAR Injustice

28:02And I think we'd have seen a different approach, like last season, right, when we were going to finish second full stop. I think we'd have seen Saka and Eza in the lineup last night if it was last season. But Saturday really, really matters. And Tuesday and then the Saturday after that, we can't lose any of these players. And I think he'd be sort of pilloried if he did play Saka too early and we lost him for the last three or four games. Yeah. Look, if this was the Champions League final, I think Saka starts. I think Eza starts. I think maybe Timber and Kai Havertz are on the bench or start, you know, it is the case that we are still going for two competitions.

28:44And you could say, how could Mikel be thinking about that in the semifinal of the Champions League? Well, if Saka starts this game, and as it starts this game, and both of them are unable to go against Fulham, people would be saying, why wasn't he more thoughtful about the Fulham game? So you just you have to do this. I mean, this is elite management. And as we've pointed out before, this is the kind of thing PSG don't have to do that Bayern Munich don't have to do right that Atleti. haven't had to do, by the way. Right? I mean, that is a really important point. I'll give you a stat on Zubamendi.

29:17Since the start of December 2025, Martin Zubamendi has made more starts than any other midfielder for a Big 5 European club across all competitions. This was his 31st start since December. Alright? Manchester United will play a total of 40 games this season. Okay? So, that's what you're dealing with. Paul, despite the fact that you've got a shagged out ramshackle team of Arsenal players trying to drag themselves over the line, the energy was good in the first half. If you think about that Simeone quote where he says, as the game went on, we noticed their fatigue, you certainly didn't notice that to start the game.

29:52And if there's one thing I really recognized from Arsenal in the first half, it was the return of our press, that we weren't playing in the wrong areas. It wasn't Saliba to Gabby, Saliba to Gabby to Raya, Saliba to Gabby to give it away, which did happen a bit in the second half. but we were able to progress the ball which meant we could get it into the final third which meant we were able to press and when we pressed they shit themselves they gave us the ball they gave us opportunities and there were some good moments early on in the sixth minute Nani Mendoeke beat his man left him for dead gets to the byline gets that cross in and I think it's Martinelli who gets it in Cappier's eyeline and then in Cappier volleys it wide it's a good opportunity though in the 16th minute Jokeres who like I said I think had a really solid performance runs the length of the pitch from nothing and cuts it back to Odegaard.

30:38And Odegaard just can't find the space to get away from the recovering atleti defenders. And this is, by the way, the point when you compare against the PSG and Bayern tie. There's a chance it's cut back in the box, right? Should be a goal? No, because of the commitment to defending and the excellent work to get back in position and block that shot. And so Odegaard can't get it. Nani Medueke cut in and shot wide. There was really good pressing and really good recovery of the ball, Paul. And I think when Arsenal are at their best, a lot of what we do well comes from what we do out of possession.

31:10And I really recognized this Arsenal out of possession in the first half. Yeah, I fully agree and endorse Lewis's view on the lineup. But I would say that the manager probably looked at this game at the Atleti home stadium, 70 ,000 fans screaming, and us kind of a tired, jaded team. like Simeone's psychological warfare with the, oh, you all look so tired, works because we're feeling really tired for all the reasons he said. The players are like, yeah, you know, we are kind of jaded. We sent out a jaded squad, and I think maybe his hand was forced on the attacking lineup, but it was also, for that first half, the right attacking lineup for that game plan.

31:59And just like, I know there'll be people where you say, you know, such and such a player, Odegaard and Jo Koresh, charging around, pressing their back line. People are kind of like, oh, bore off. That's lowest common denominator. That's the least you expect from players, blah, blah, blah. You can expect it all you like. Very few players can do what Martin Odegaard did in that first 45 minutes. he ran like a maniac pressing leading that charge now you can quibble about other parts of his game and like i thought this was a better performance from him than i've seen in his recent couple i'm waiting to see a lot better odegaard performances he did some good things on the ball in this he had some moments you can question like being in front of goal and does he does he take the right touch and should he have just hit it first time and if he were a right-footed player.

32:55There's lots of things you can say. What you cannot question is what he did in charging, running like a lunatic, cross their back line, push them in. We got the ball back. We changed the energy of that first half. I think it was obvious to Simeone that we couldn't do that for a second half. He made his tweak. He may well have planned for us running out of gas at halftime because they, you know, the other part of it was they weren't going hell for leather in the first 45 minutes. It's like they played a 90-minute game, and it was probably deliberately a game of two halves. And we probably, like, it's interesting that it was Odegaard who came off, but he was probably by far the most cooked at that point, not because he doesn't have the engine.

33:44He may not have his full engine back, but I think we left it all on the pitch in that first half, forced turnovers, got in great situations, and Odegaard was dropping deep and pressing the other end. And he was the standard bearer for the first half's game plan, along with Declan Rice. And it allowed us to move Zubimendi into a place where his lack of energy at this stage was not a problem, and he could pick and choose moments, sit into space, and we've seen him and Odegaard combine centrally to great effect in the past. I think that was the game plan. Yeah, I thought the midfield was a really interesting part of this.

34:24I was equal parts impressed by things we did and frustrated at times. I would say that there were opportunities for us to create clearer chances had our passing been more crisp and more timely and more incisive when we recovered the ball. But you kind of have to analyze this Arsenal team for who we are right now, not who you'd like us to be, because this is who we are. Um, and obviously Arsenal are going to look better when Declan Rice looks better because at this moment, he's our best player. And I'll give you some data on Declan Rice. He had the most touches 99 and completed the most passes 83 of any player in this week's Champions League semifinal.

35:06Declan Rice completed 83 passes. The second most by an English midfielder in a Champions League semifinal since records started in 2003, 2004. Rice was carrying it. He was passing it. He was recovering it. He was doing everything. And I actually think Declan Rice is better when he does everything because that's how you get the best out of Declan Rice, right? Not being a complimentary piece, being the piece. And it's one of the reasons, Lewis, I love the idea of making Declan Rice alone six in a way because I think you get more good Declan Rice when he's asked to do more than when you ask him to be a complimentary piece.

35:40I think he's that kind of player, right? He needs to feel the ball. He needs to be on it. He needs to be involved. And he was, it let Zubomendi get up the pitch, and he played that 1-2 that led to the Jokeres chance. He had a couple other moments up the pitch where I thought he was good. We were good off the ball. When we needed someone in midfield to step up, Declan Rice definitely did it. And for the last six or seven games, well, I guess six games, hopefully, of this season, I think that's a formula that can work if we can get this kind of Declan Rice on the pitch, you know? And not just this season, but looking forward, I think we've kind of left the idea of Declan Rice being that number six.

36:15player uh he's got that engine obviously and you want to use that engine that engine was still used you can play in front of the back four and Paul was talking about the press is still Declan Rice winning the second balls because you know there's a there's an overhit sloppy pass because of that pressure at the front line there's a Atletico are trying to play quick through the lines Rice is still there snapping up those balls so you know I think there's a lot to love about Declan Rice playing there. I think it's a real shame of the last couple of years that we've not seen that more often. It was clearly the plan when we signed him.

36:55I also think Declan Rice, I think if he's exceptional, and when I say exceptional, I don't mean exceptional only. I mean, better than anyone else on the planet. If there's one thing he does better than anyone else on the planet, I want him stopping counterattacks. And I suspect that's a big part of the reason he played there yesterday. Alvarez, Griezmann, they play as two false nines. They drop into midfield. Saliba and Gabriel, the question is, do you go with them? Do you not go with them? Well, there's a lot easier decision to make if you've got Declan Rice covering it for you. The legs, I think when you play him as that left eight, put it this way, if I'm coaching a team against Arsenal and Declan Rice is a left eight, I'm like, right, when we get the ball and we're going to break, we break down their right-hand side.

37:44we go to the half of the pitch that Declan Rice can't reach if you play him as the six and he's in the middle of the park he will snuff out every single counter attack wherever it's coming from he's got 20 yards either way that he has to make up and he will make it up pretty much every single time so I think that's defensively I think there's a massive massive reason to play him there I also think you know if you play Declan Rice there in that engine that he's got you can trust the fullbacks to go a little bit more you can trust the other midfielders to roam a little bit more because Declan Rice is there ahead of the two best center backs in the world and between the three of them they will sweep up and deal with absolutely everything that comes their way on transition so I think there's that and then I just think on the ball his passing since he joined Arsenal has got better and better and better his understanding of when it should go slow and short and sideways and went to punch it through the lines is there that was a great pass through the lines yesterday in the in the first half to Hincapie who had sort of drifted in from left back and then Hincapie took a sort of dodgy touch and played a really loose ball out to Madueke and I was just thinking I wish it was Califuri on the receiving end of that ball in space in the middle of the pitch but I thought Rice's passing was excellent Zubemendy doesn't get on the ball that much.

39:06Zubemendy acts as almost a decoy at times. You know, he'll pull out to the left or to the right and open a gap for Rice or Odegaard to come and collect it. Rice, like you sort of said earlier, the best Declan Rice is when he's as much Declan Rice as possible. He wants all that responsibility. He wants the ball all the time. And I think Arsenal, when they've struggled lately, there's not enough players who are saying, hey give me the ball trust me I'll take it I'll take care of this showing that sort of character demanding it that I guess leadership from a technical perspective I think it's there's only a couple of games this season he's played as many passes as he did last night away from home in a Champions League semi-final he wants to be there and he wants to be at the heart of it all and you know looking forward as well this is this is the way to get as an Erdgaard in the team centrally together or it's the way to get an extra creative player if it's not one of those two into the team is for Declan Rice to play in that position and I hope moving forward I don't know if it'll be the weekend fitness permitting and all that sort of thing but I hope moving forward we do see a lot more of it we're we're of a piece on that Lewis by the way I think it is time when you look at where Arsenal can improve I don't think can we improve defensively sure we could give up zero goals in a season.

40:27It gets a little ridiculous picking nits about how we can improve defensively when clearly there's another area we can improve. And I just think the best version of Arsenal is one where you tap into the superpowers of this incredible midfielder you have in Declan Rice by allowing yourself an extra fantasy player on the pitch. And when we come to Eza's performance, Everchazza gave the ball away a couple of times. It could have been dangerous for us. be willing to pay that price because you have Saliba Gabby and Rice be willing to have an extra player who might give the ball away trying something spectacular because it is the trying something spectacular we need more not the security on the ball that we need more so that's just where I am with it uh Paul before we shift gears to the second half Mikel Arteta on Yoko's performance he had a very strong first half especially when we were more dominant he created the goal and the penalty and he was ice cool to score it in the manner that he did and then the second half changed a little bit credit to them but there were a lot of things that we need to do much much better and I think we had to change we changed that I think the game changed as well as we ended up finishing on top um pretty accurate for Mikel there I think across the board but I do think Jokar said a good first half you know whatever concerns I have about his technical level or the way he controls the ball or passes the ball like hard running can do a lot of things to an opposition defense just running defenders back up the pitch, defenders feeling like they've been in a battle.

41:46We've had times where our center forwards drop into midfield and combine well and do a lot of good things in that area, but the center backs just don't feel like they've been in a game. You know what I mean? Jokras makes you feel like you've been in a game, and certainly the chance he creates for Odegaard is really well done by him, and the penalty comes from being in the right spot. So for me, this is a good performance that gave Arsenal territory in the match, which is really important for us, the way we pressed and recovered the ball and his hard running was important. So do you have sort of thoughts on what he did well and if you want to add maybe why Mikel then felt he needed to change it as the game wore on?

42:23Yeah, that's the interesting bit because he doesn't snuff out the conversation about why he had to change Yarkeres. Yeah, he just says, and then the second half changed a little bit. That's all he says, and we had to change it. Yeah, I think Arteta was very, very wound up when he made those changes. Like, he made three. He changed. It's kind of like, I'm changing everything. So he did not like what was going on at that particular moment and what was being done to him. That was pure emotion. And I'm sure he put the logic in there afterwards. Yaceresh in the first half. Look, part of the reason Yaceresh was better was because the movement in front of him was cleverer and smarter and Odegaard and Zubimendi hovering around, flicking the ball around, the hard running, the pressing.

43:16Rice carried more, progressed the ball more with passing and carries. There was a lot going on in front of their back line, which meant they were a bit more confused about what was coming at them compared to your average Arsenal performance, where I don't think Jokeres really gets to pin two centre-backs. Like you keep seeing that we've had a few debates on this with people on the Twitters where they're like, look, Jokeresh is pinning three other players and he's really not. But it's not just down to him. It's the fact that there isn't going on enough centrally in and around him. So the center backs don't have a lot to figure out.

43:54They know who's on them and who isn't. You put three or four guys buzzing around in front of them. Now the center backs are getting nervous and twitchy and they want to keep their eyes on Jokeresh. And I think in this game, there are multiple times where I'm like, yeah, there are genuinely two center backs staying close to Victor Yacoresh. And that created space for other people and other players. So it's almost like a corollary to he doesn't get enough good service, which I'm not super like he could do it more good service. I think he should have done more with the service he's had so far. but this was a game the other side of it the kind of he he doesn't have the ball but we have the ball and we're threatening therefore the center backs have to watch him so i think he was genuinely able to pin a couple of their center backs along with the hard running not just chasing around doing his work him and odegaard like odegaard was a man on fire but jacoresh wasn't far behind in terms of his work rate and running and it paid off in the first half and in the second half it wasn't meaningful that that value that he and to some degree odegaard had brought didn't matter anymore because we weren't able to press them yeah it was a tactical switch but also the energy was gone and this was a my headline for the instant reaction was energy and the first half was our energy our second half was their energy and our lack of it until he came to the same conclusion in my book and changed the players not that you bring on jesus for energy but you keep him bring him on to hold on to the ball and get energy from the other players you brought on yeah um and obviously simeoni referenced the energy point too in the quote that i've given twice just on that just on that it's all right like you said like obviously psg and bayon we know they'll win their leagues but you mentioned atletico they're like 25 points behind barcelona they're comfortably going to finish in the top four nothing to play for julian alvarez hasn't played more or he hasn't played in their last four La Liga games.

45:55He's played more than 45 minutes in La Liga once since January. He's not been injured. He's not been injured. He's just being saved. Obviously, older player. He started nine games in La Liga this season. So I think there was the tactical switch, but when Paul talks about the energy there and then if we interrogate the second half, they're front two are so fresh and let's let's just they're their best two players their best two players play up front and they've not been playing football for months once every couple of weeks in the champions league and you know in the cup final and stuff like that and we all know how absolutely knackered our players look every single one of them and that's a massive massive difference and Antoine Griezmann's 35 years old so you know like it's a luxury to be able to give that player limited minutes because if Antoine Griezmann was playing every three days in the Premier League and the Champions League, what do you think he'd look like at this point in the season?

46:56So yeah, I want to get to the tactical aspects of the change. I also want to get to the subs. I have a thought on the subs making a big difference, but the impact of making them all at once. And I want to get your thoughts on that, you guys. But I think if there's one thing everybody agrees on right now, it's that they have no idea what VPN to use. And like, if you're sitting here and you're listening, you're like, oh, tactics, energy, goals. What VPN do I use? Okay, okay. I'll tell you. Relax. We hear you. NordVPN is the one you're going to use. That's right. NordVPN.com slash Arsenal Vision is the code.

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47:58Maybe even things you don't want, and that's what Nord is going to prevent from happening. Yeah, when I go over to England, excited to see people at Union Chapel in May, but I'm going to want to watch some of the games. One of my best favorite memories in England It was actually, I think it was a Union Chapel weekend, was going to be going to see Arsenal later that day at the Emirates. But we got together with some people at a pub before that and put the NordVPN on, put on a game at 3 p.m., watched it together. Alex Owebe scored a winner against United. We all had a very good time, and Nord is to thank for that.

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49:12TireRack.com, the way tire buying should be. Is that enough of that? Indeed. No, no. Lewis, okay, energy, energy, energy, energy. Can we talk tactics? There was a major important change. Lenormand came on for Simeone at halftime and they went to more of a back five structure. They were able to push into wide areas more. They stretched the pitch horizontally and suddenly our press really struggled, I think, to get to grips with that. They were able to play it through. It also meant that we weren't 4v2 in buildup. We were 4v3 and we had a harder time progressing it. So we started playing more in the areas we shouldn't and we don't like to.

49:48We also struggled to pin them back when they were building play. And you can talk about energy, but I think talking about energy is a distraction from a really effective tactical switch because you shouldn't be completely shagged out right after halftime. You should have your energy back. Well, clearly that wasn't the case. We had a really, really rocky start to this. second half. I'll get to the data on that in a moment. We'll talk about some of the incidents, but you're the tactical genius on this pod right now. You can play the role of Clive. What do you think were the impacts of the substitution and what were the tactical shifts that you noticed?

50:24Yeah, I thought there was a few things. I would say none of it's separate from energy, right? Yeah, good man, Lewis. You can't employ tactics without the physical or technical attributes of the players taken into account if you can run a marathon you can play differently compared to you know if you like me cannot run a marathon so i do think it's not irrelevant uh i but you're right they changed shape and uh and we struggled i think they like you say they moved to the back three back five whatever you want to call it uh the wing backs pushed on lookman as a result could get more into central areas as opposed to kind of more holding the width because the because ruggieri was coming out on the left hand side your entay on the right hand side the pitch was bigger the pitch was just bigger and when the pitch is bigger you're just not going to be able to press the same way i thought oblak and the center backs maybe as well i thought they started to go longer more often you tuck you know lookman in you've got three center backs there now you can push the central midfielders a little bit higher for the second balls and compete on those second balls a little bit better and then we struggled to get out because i think basically they didn't have four at the back anymore they had three they went man-to-man against maduake yokarez and martinelli if you if we want to say yokarez was good running the channel in the in the first half well when you've got three across the back line there's no space in the channel to run into you can't sort of tempt the right back forward and then spin the ball out there and and sort of charge down that channel that there's just a right center back stood there so I thought on both ends of the the pitch and both sides of the ball it made it a lot harder especially as our energy levels were going to get lower it made it so it made it a lot harder for us to to squeeze them we've struggled a few times over the past few years, our press, when the pitch, especially in that first build-up phase, gets made really wide.

52:28I remember Porto did it really well. The centre-backs were kind of playing Porto a couple of years ago. The centre-backs went and stood behind the goalkeeper, basically, really wide at goal kicks when he had the ball. And if we talk about, Paul mentioned earlier, that sort of dual, Erdegaard, Jokeres press. But the key is that they're never, and the same when Havertz is up there, when Jesus was up there a few years ago, especially. Urdegaard and that striker are never that far apart. Well, if the centre-backs suddenly, if the men they need to be pressing are 40 yards apart, you just start to stretch Arsenal.

53:04You start to widen the spaces. Those second balls become a little bit easier to contest because Arsenal aren't able to surround areas of the pitch and launch onto them. So I think it was a smart change from Simona. I thought we definitely struggled. As much as we struggled, I still don't think we conceded any huge chances as a result of it. I think it sort of swung the game more in their direction. But I don't think... They weren't pummeling the goal. David Ryan made a couple of good say, but there was nothing clear cut. There were no horrible, horrible misses from Atletico. So as much as they were the better side, definitely for that sort of 25-30 minutes at the start of the second half.

53:54And the changes definitely helped him get a foothold. I don't think this was a terrible half an hour from Arsenal. It wasn't great. I didn't love it. But you're going to suffer for a bit in a Champions League semi-final away from home. You're going to have to get through a period of the game where the other team's on top. I'll have my say on that in a moment. I will point out to your point, though, Lewis, Atleti have now scored 104 goals this season across all competitions. They've conceded 73, but they've scored 104. So maybe worth keeping in mind, similar to sporting, where we may have underplayed the quality that we showed defensively to keep them out, a free-scoring team that scored against some very big and very good teams.

54:31Atleti obviously have done the same, and we did reasonably well, but I'm going to maybe have a slightly different opinion on that. Paul, you want to weigh in on the tactical shift and start the second half? Yeah. You know me, I never like to let something go. So here's where I think even the tactical shift was really only about energy. They had the players in the legs, and he wanted to change the shape so that you could get one more player to attack our back line, keep us pinned in, go for turnovers, use that energy against us. It's great having energy, but not if you've got four guys across the back covering the team that isn't getting down to press your four guys anymore.

55:09So I think it was a smart calculation to say, how do we get my energy into the right areas to keep them pinned in? The watering our, how can you get away with this shit? The watering our half at half time. By the way, it's a breach of FIFA rules. Thanks to Magic Hat on Twitter who called up the FIFA rules. That is a breach of FIFA rules. UEFA rules, I should say, sorry. I saw a quote from Griezmann in the buildup to this from like after one of their games against Barcelona, I think in the cup after they batted Barcelona in the cup a couple months ago. And he said after the game, yeah, yeah, the pitch is kind of slippery, but we're more used to it than they are.

55:45Yeah, it was very slippy again, by the way. It's very obvious that they're doing this on purpose and do it often. Our half was slippy and we were bogged down and our legs get tighter and they're all up for it. and it was, you know, our players were on the pitch waiting for the game to start while the sprinklers are spraying them. I mean, it's just, they don't care. They don't give a crap. They have calculated this fully. They know what they can get away with. They got away with it. So anyway, yes, there was a tactical tweak, but I think it was literally about put their players where they can run you ragged.

56:27But I do think that that is a tactical tweak that mattered because I do think we shit ourselves sometimes when we're pressed. I don't think we have the most press-resistant team right now. I think there's a lot of players who help with that, who are playing. Timber, Calafiore, you know, Ezza, when he gets between the lines, and we can talk about his role. Obviously, Odegaard came off for Ezza, so it's sort of a one-for-one. You want to talk about press resistance. You get the ball to Saka or you get the ball to players like that. You know, Kai Havertz, you can go long. We saw how he helped against City.

56:56when you don't have any of that, pressing is a good strategy because the wide players don't keep it as well. The center forward isn't as big a target for the long out ball. The midfield doesn't have as much technical quality. The fullbacks aren't as comfortable on the ball in tight spaces. Of course you should press. And they did, Lewis. Yeah, I mean, in the first half, we went forward. We played out from the back and then we went forward into space. In the second, we went long. and suddenly they can play with three against the three that we've got up top because everybody on the planet knows you can go long to this front three and it just means we're going to lose the ball the opposition are going to win the ball nine times out of ten it's going to come back us and when they go three on three obviously you can commit an extra man to the press make it harder for arsenal to play out if arsenal would voluntarily starting to go long anyway encourage it because we're not going to hurt you with this with this lineup going long like we we've seen it all season long the ball comes back going long does not serve us well and if they can make us go long they don't have to have four back there against three you can go three on three you'll win enough of those one-on-ones and that's the the problem that we had at times i think you know the press got better from them or let's say it got more committed which meant we were more likely to go long which meant they'd win the ball and the ball keeps coming back people get frustrated sometimes when we play out from the back and i know it can like look scary and look risky but it is for me so much better than going long and losing the ball when the ball comes back again and suddenly you're away from home in a champions league semi-final for half an hour you can't get out of your box or out of your half because the ball just will not stick up there trust Rice trust Rice trust Saliba who had a couple of iffy moments on the ball last night but generally you know trust Rice trust Zubemendi and Odegaard rotating and dropping figuring out which one comes and gets the ball yeah and let's back ourselves in those moments to play out and play through more often than not we do I know the risk of if you lose the ball it could be a big chance but the risk of losing it over and over again and ending up defending for 25 minutes is even bigger.

59:18Well, and this is where I want to say that your identity shapes your risk tolerance. If we were a freer scoring team, I think we'd be braver and less fearful of playing out. Because if you happen to give a goal away, you don't think, well, that's it, we're dead. But when you know goals are hard to come by, you're more fearful of giving one away at your own end because you feel it could be so harmful. I mean, you look at PSG Bayern at 5-2, tie's over, right? Nope. That's a luxury when you know you can come back from 5-2 to be back in a tie. When you think one goal is going to decide a tie, like it did for us in the quarterfinal, you're much less willing to take the risk that could cost you a goal, and that makes it easier for teams to press you in and push you back and control territory.

1:00:03Look, I think people know that one of my biggest flaws is my unfailing commitment to intellectual honesty. And, you know, I apologize for that, but I have to stay with that here. I think we could have lost the tie in the 25 minutes after halftime. And I think you have to be honest about that. I think we're just about worth the draw. I think we finished on top and I think we were better in the first half, but there's a 25 minute period there where they have the chances to kill the tie. Really, genuinely. Gives me no pleasure to say that. Let me give you the data, first of all, from 45 minutes to 71 minutes, because it's pretty stark.

1:00:36They had 11 shots in those 26 minutes. They had 65 % of the ball, and they had 13 touches to zero in the penalty box. It was full-on dominance in that period. They had about one and a half expected goals in those 25 minutes. Now, granted, to be fair, about.8 of that, I guess, is a penalty, right? But let me just give you some of the chances again, because I'm sure you want to think about them. Okay? Lookman was played in. His shot saved. Griezmann's shot blocked. That's the corner that leads to the handball that becomes the penalty. So I guess you could say they got a goal out of it anyway. Fair enough.

1:01:14Then Lookman gets in, slips to Griezmann, hits the bar, follow-up deflected wide for a corner. Then after the subs, there's the biggest one. Lookman gets past White. White falls down, and he's 1v1 with Raya, and he hits it too close to Raya. And I do want to give Raya his flowers because while none of the saves individually, there was the one in the first half, by the way, on Alvarez when he turned at the top of the box and he saved it. down low. Well, none of the saves individually are ones where I would say, how did he make that save? Oh my gosh. All of those are situations where it can get past you, get through you.

1:01:47That happens. Those are big, big chances, 1v1 basically, and he saves them all. So, you know, again, saves he should make, but when you face three or four point blank or really good shots, sometimes one squirts through you and he made the saves he needed to make. So, Paul, I want to talk about the subs though. And, and before I do that, I'll just say this. I think Ben White started to go to pieces and especially after the handball penalty. I don't know if that got in his head. There's a big decision coming about Ben White. We're going to talk about that at the end of the, at the end of the pod because I think the Muscara Ben White thing is an interesting talk point.

1:02:23But here's how I think about the subs, Paul. by the last 15-20 minutes of the game the subs had made their impact and we were back on top and we were playing really well but I think the impact of making all of them almost essentially at the same time I realize as it came on 10 minutes before the triple sub the impact is it's a destabilizing change and it takes you time to reconfigure, readjust and get to grips with the major change you've made so there's a part of me that thinks I love those three changes individually but could you stagger them so the team has time to assimilate each of these new pieces rather than making them all at once.

1:02:57Because at 68 minutes when they all came on, we were a mess for a bit. Then we got onto the ball. Then as it starts to come into the game, then the extra technical quality we brought on started to show and we really finished strongly. So right subs, but maybe space them out a bit. Do you think? That's interesting. So like you could well be right. I'm going to flip the other way and say the issue wasn't that they came on and they should have come on. in stages in dribs and drabs in which case you can kind of get lost in the wash one player doesn't change it but three players that changes how you play and i think we wanted to change how our play i think the issue when we came on was saka and trossard in particular suddenly found out how long that grass was how wet it was they were getting plowed into and not getting fouls they were getting roughed up i'm not saying they were really due the fouls but they weren't up to the pace of this game and the physicality and Atleti were waiting for them and like the first two times Trossard got it he was overrun Saka instead of doing that thing where he rides the tackle and he gets around the guy like first couple of times he gets barreled over and bundled over and doesn't manage to ride the ball around the player and then they start to get the feel of the game and we make the adjustments but i think it's better to kind of reset how you're playing with three players who fit together just like the the front three cut you may not love the front three we started with plus odegaard but it kind of worked for the tactics at that point now we needed to change where we could play out uh play around got as don't forget eza and he fits with that that you've got guys who can do something with the ball, hold on to the ball, give a platform to get up the pitch.

1:04:47It wasn't all smooth sailing, but I think they played as a set and I liked the logic to it. And I think Arteta just desperately wanted to change something and one player was not going to change how he felt about how this game was going. He's like, I want to change them all. But he was limited to three players in the attacking end. So that's what I think happened. Lewis? i wonder if the like i do i agree with paul that he really wanted to change something i probably um elliot more towards like i personally if it was me i would have maybe changed two and seen how that goes i think the problem with that is we'd already brought ezra on and then you're down to that third sub window if you're kind of whole like mascara obviously comes on late but i think once you've made four uh not four once you've used two of those sub windows you're kind of thinking if someone goes down on 75 then we've got to make change there and that's the 11 we've got there until the end of the game like i think that might be a part of it that came into it i i don't know i i didn't i like the changes i probably want to change them all at once uh i also do think maybe it all would have been fine if trossard didn't just basically fuck up everything he did the first three times he got the ball.

1:06:06Yeah. He kind of put a lot of pressure on himself by, you know, that little twist and turn that he likes to do and then just didn't release the ball quickly enough and kind of got hounded out of possession. Was this a hold my beer situation where Martinelli's like, I really didn't have a very good performance and Leo gave him the hold my beer? I mean, Mikkel must be pulling his hair out wondering, who can I play on the left side of this attack to do anything? This is the thing, you know, with Maduweke being, I mentioned earlier, he's been subbed a few times early this season. Martinelli's been hooked at halftime a couple of times this season.

1:06:36I don't think these combinations, these players, the players that Mikko Arteta wants, I think he's putting the players on the pitch that can be on the pitch right now. And again, like a triple change like that says, he doesn't love it. He really doesn't love it. I don't think he's satisfied at all with the options that he's got and with the players that he's got. And look, that's a whole other discussion, recruitment and and what part he's had to play in that and how much he's to blame for the players he has like that's a whole other thing that we that you know we've got a whole summer where we can all discuss all that sort of thing for now i just think he wanted technical quality on the pitch i'm sort of the big picture view on it i'm really really happy because for a while we departed from that like my go-to when things aren't great is put your best players on the pitch the players who can control the ball best the players who can combine best the players who you can trust to keep the ball those are the ones when it's hard i want on the pitch in all 11 positions and for a while we stopped doing that this season and it was let's get back and defend our box and punt it long and hold on and time and time again we brought pressure on ourselves by doing that uh you know the wolves away wolves at home wolves away really sticks out it feels over the past few weeks and maybe it's just because options are back you know Havertz was back for a few games Saka's back at the moment Erdegaard's back it feels now like again the default when things are hard is right who are my best footballers who are the footballers who can keep the ball the best they're the ones that are going on the pitch and that's really promising to me that we've sort of gone back to that way of handling tough times and it didn't work immediately yesterday but after five or ten minutes finding their feet we were on top again you know it did work in the in the whole of the time that those guys were on the pitch right up to the final a whistle it did work I thought Eze was a lot more involved when those players were on the pitch because he had players to combine with I think also you get the best out of Eze like you guys were both saying when you can encourage that risk-taking yeah but if you're risk-taking and the front three aren't a front three that keep the ball particularly well then you're just another guy turning the ball over but if you've got Jesus and Saka and Trossard I think you can lean into those risks a little bit more because you can trust those guys to do a bit more of the containing kind of job when it comes to keeping the ball, keeping possession, getting the team upfield.

1:09:22So I think it played into Eze's strengths and we got a better version of him because that was the front three afterwards. And Saka found him a couple, obviously for the penalty, but for a couple of times, Saka found him in really interesting positions. It was nice to see the two of them combining and linking up. So I don't love doing three subs all at once like that. I think it's a lot of change for the team to absorb all in one go. but I also get why he did it, and I'm glad for the idea behind it at least. Can we just say what we saw? This is a team that's going to need more attacking talent in wide areas, maybe in all areas.

1:10:04It just needs more threat. Threat changes game plans. Threat creates fear. Threat changes your bravery, and if you don't feel threatened by Martinelli and Leo comes on and you don't feel threatened by Leo, that has an impact on what the opposition does, right? I mean, it is the case that if you have Michael Olise, the opposition is going to shit themselves and worry that they got to do something about Michael Olise. And same if you have Dembele on the other side, right? And that's the reason you go out and invest in really talented attackers because talented attackers destroy game plans. They really destroy game plans.

1:10:41Now, you can want to go find talented attackers and still not succeed, right? You can find them. Look at Liverpool. Izak and Eketike. One season lost at the beginning of the season. One season lost at the end of the season. They played Florian Verts. Hasn't really worked out. It's hard to do. It's just the case that if you don't have elite attacking talent, suddenly your tactics can look less impressive. The opposition can do things they wouldn't otherwise do and that can make it look like you're not as adventurous. Talent does decide so much of this, but there are two players in particular that have a lot of talent that I want to talk about one of them is abracia as a just to me i think it's a fascinating appearance because you could look at it through the lens of look at the ball he gave away look at the times he gave away the ball if you're so inclined you can also look at it as look at the one two he played with mascara look at the two times he set up uh not even wakey look at the way he's willing to receive it in tight spaces turn and face and want to do the next progressive thing and i just feel in a team that doesn't have enough threat a fantasy player is worth indulging that if you're going to have Rice and Saliba and Gabby, like, have a player who sometimes loses the ball if he can score the goal he did the other day against Newcastle.

1:11:50If he can score the kind of goals we've seen him score this season or create the kind of goals he's created this season. So let's talk Ezza and Saka, and then I want to just quickly touch on the Fulham game. So still a decent chunk to get to here, so let's move quickly. Paul, on Ezza, do you connect more to the need for him to be more secure in this kind of a situation, or do you connect more to obviously what i love which is fancy dan tends dancing on the ball in tight spaces and trying to play line splitting passes if clive were on the pot he'd be rolling his eyes yeah well with your background in theater you're going to want to entertain you know what i mean there you go yeah we were playing football for you you're wearing tights on the stage so that's what you're going to want to do yeah exit stage left um yeah look you've got uh one of strong let's lean into We got the best defense on the planet.

1:12:39At the moment, it's running a little thin. But you got to lean into that. You got Declan Rice finally in the DM spot with 80-something touches where Zubimendi averages about 50. So now you got security. We're on the ball. He can progress with passing. He can progress with running. And you got this screen. You got Hincapié. So you really have a back three when you need that surety and you want to get Ben White a little forward. So you lean into Eberacci as a, and back to the point of making enough changes. Part of the problem was he came on and it wasn't enough change. He didn't have enough to work with.

1:13:21It was one guy on its own, so maybe Lewis is right. Minimum of two. Minimum dose at that particular point of the game was maybe two, and if he's going to have to make a change, he made all his attacking changes in one go. and now as as has players to play with and i didn't have that feeling of oh my god he lost the ball i to your point my eye expects him to lose the ball because he's trying shit and that's why you have those guys back there that's the safety net right that's the you got your he's a trapeze artist it's okay he's he's in the build-up phase he's he's feeling the the bar as we call it in trapeziary and he's going to miss it once or twice bounce in the net but it's cool and he bounces like an athlete out of the net we recover and we start to get a feel for the game and we give them some threat going in the opposite direction which they had not had at that point i think it's a huge thumbs up for him that at this stage in the season the manager says you know what makes me feel a little safer right now putting eza on for odegaard and i'm a big odegaard guy it's not and knock against Odegaard, but we would have generally seen it go the other way of, oh, I need to shore things up, get Eze off and bring on somebody, Marino or Odegaard or somebody to...

1:14:40Yeah, get Odegaard off and bring on, you know, Norgard. I mean, obviously, we know he's not going to do that, but you get the idea. Yeah, yeah. So here he was, he's like, what makes me feel safer? Eze, because I need some threat going the other end to relieve pressure. And that has not been a hallmark of Arteta necessarily. I think largely based on the personnel he has. I think Mikel Arteta is a very smart man. And in most cases, the decisions he makes are personnel-based. Some of it is he's still learning to coach every situation in every game. But in this one, he says, what makes me feel better?

1:15:18And it's Eberachezza gives him some threat and the chance to maybe... And he's going for the win, right? He could hunker down. He's not. He's like, we can get the extra goal, and we nearly did. Yeah, and I mean, Mascara wound up on the ball at the top of the box with a good shot. Didn't expect to see that, but it was a really lovely bit of 1-2 that involved Eza. But Kaio Saka had an interesting appearance, Lewis, and it's sort of the Rorschach-Saka test because the data says he completed more dribbles in the time he was on the pitch than any other Arsenal player. I mean, you really want to talk about a performance.

1:15:55And it's like Martinelli had one shot worth.02 XG. He created no chances. He completed no dribbles. He lost five of his seven ground duels. He didn't win an aerial duel. He had one touch in the box. Like that is a game passing you by, quintessentially a game passing you by. But Kiyosaka had, you know, three dribbles. He won more of his duels. He created the penalty. You know, I mean, it's nothing extraordinary. It's not like a moment of individual brilliance, but he's there on the ball. Maybe it isn't a moment of individual brilliance. No, he's found as in the crowd of four Atletico players. Yeah.

1:16:26Between two athletic players, which our other players weren't making that pass. And I think if you're watching Arsenal this season and the right winger has the ball there, what do you think the right winger is going to do? Either going to the fullback or driving to the byline. Yeah. So what do you think of Saka overall? I thought Saka was good. I thought he came on and... Bakaya Saka is just special. and I really hope we stop giving him the ball when there's a defender right behind him because it just invites somebody to kick him and I know if I was playing left back against Bakayi Saka I'd probably feel most comfortable when he's somewhere where I can kick him and not get in too much trouble for it.

1:17:07Stop giving him the ball in those areas. When he kind of managed to find his feet and get himself moving a little bit I thought he looked sharp. I thought he looked sharp at the weekend when he came on as Newcastle. I don't have the expectation that we're going to see the best of Pukai Yosaka over the next few weeks because he's been out for a while and over the course of the last year has had a few different injuries. Clearly playing through something. I mean, come on. He's not been at his best physically and you can tell he's still fantastic. He is, I think his superpower is that he makes the right decision pretty much every single time.

1:17:46I don't think you can underrate how important that is. If it's time to take on the left back, he'll take on the left back. If it's time to go backwards, he will go backwards. If it's time to drift inside, he'll do that, take a shot, cross, pass, cut back. Whatever option is available to Baka 'i Saka, he picks the right one. And it's all easy for us with our high camera angles and replays from multiple angles to go, oh well why didn't he do that and I'm very very rarely I'm watching Bakayi Saka and thinking well why has he done that that's not true for pretty much any other winger in the world and not any of the other wingers we have he is an incredible footballer because he has an incredible football brain I think first and foremost he sees the game unfold and and sees the chess moves you know drop of a shoulder here that opens that space then the pass comes I think it's I think it's interesting I think it's kind of instructive that that looks like he's just played a pass into Eberit Giese it doesn't look spectacular most players don't play that pass or can't play that pass uh yeah he got by the left back a couple of times down there there was one over hit cross on his right foot.

1:19:06I think Saka looks pretty good in his couple of cameos this last week. And I'm really, really hopeful for, even if it's not at his best, what he could offer us over the next few weeks. Because, you know, we need Bukai Yusaka over the next few weeks to be playing a lot of football if we're going to achieve everything we want to achieve. And hopefully he can get on the pitch to start games soon. Yeah, I mean, I agree with absolutely all of that. Let's do this. I want to do maybe like a 10-minute preview of the Fulham game with you, Lewis. I know we have to let Paul go, so let's do that. We'll preview Fulham briefly, but Paul, any final thoughts on taking a draw back to the Emirates and how you feel that positions us to get through to our second-ever Champions League final?

1:19:58Yeah, I don't think we should and can complain about the situation we're in. You can quibble, well, more than quibble. You can lose your mind over refereeing decisions. Welcome to the Champions League. We should expect more of that and be ready for it. I'm glad we didn't lose our professionalism and start losing our minds and start doing dumb things. We've grown a lot as a team, so that side of it. We give away very few stupid decisions, which matters late in these competitions. We've really kind of worked that out. This is a quite mature, still youngish, but they've grown through all those ups and downs.

1:20:37And now we'll play on home turf with the crowd behind us. It's up to us, as it should be. And we should be able to take this home. And I think the manager will have learned a lot. Maybe he'll have learned something in terms of his midfield, which we've all been scratching our head on for a while. And with a strong defense and a good midfield setup, now all he's got to do is get the attackers right on the day and get them fit enough. So I think we take a lot out of this besides bringing back a result where we can win it at home. Yeah. And to your point, Paul, I mean, one big advantage of playing front-footed football, pressing, keeping the ball high up the pitch, attacking in the Champions League, is that it insulates you a little bit from their willingness to give penalties.

1:21:23You know, very soft penalties. Now, I wish we had gotten a very soft penalty. We'd be potentially up 2-1 in the time. You get the idea. All right, we'll let Paul go. We'll do a quick Fulham preview. Thank you, Paul. Woo-hoo!

1:21:35Lewis, in order to preview the Fulham game, I think the first thing we have to ask is whether you think that was in Mikel's mind when he picked the lineup in Madrid and with some of his substitutions. And my personal opinion is that it was. Obviously, I think Mikel was fully focused on winning in Madrid and getting through to the Champions League final, but you can't pick and choose. He wants to win the Premier League. He wants to win the Champions League, and that's only right. So I believe that had this been the Champions League final, Saka might have started, as I said, and as a might have started, Odegaard might have stayed on if he was feeling something at 58 minutes.

1:22:06Maybe Kai Havertz would be on the bench or Timber. None of that was the case, and I think that is because the Fulham game is in his mind and he's trying to win the next six games, not just the game in Madrid. So firstly, do you agree that that influenced the lineup and substitutions at all? And how so? Yeah, yeah, I do. You've caught me off guard with the question. Yeah. Obviously, what nobody realizes is this is the third time that we've done this because of technical glitches. What I will say is it's definitely, well, yeah, and as always, send any complaints about the podcast too, Paul. But I will say this is by far the best version of the question I have asked.

1:22:41Yeah, I thought you did really well. you'd had the opportunity to warm up and get this is why training is important you need training yeah i michael arteta wanted to pick the best team to win in madrid obviously but more than that michael arteta wants to pick the team that gives him the best chance of winning arsenal's next seven or eight games and winning the premier league in the champions league so yeah i think the way that you phrased it and framed it as if this was the Champions League final obviously picked the best team that he could pick for this one without damaging the chances of winning other games or damaging them as little as possible like everyone's tired and and the fatigue damages all of them but if Saka could have played 60 minutes in this one but there was a risk attached to that that meant maybe then he can't play the second leg or against Fulham then it's the right call not to play Saka whereas if it's the Champions League final and there's no game coming up next week then you just play Saka from the start.

1:23:48I definitely think it has to come into the thinking and to get over the line here putting our best team on the pitch and having the best performance last night in Madrid isn't the answer. We have to do that four more times in the league and two more times hopefully in the Champions League. That's the line that we have to get over. Last night wasn't the finish line for any of this. Yeah, and fundamentally, the thing that makes the Fulham game so interesting to me is, again, the way the timing is played out. It is a really bizarre situation where we play on Saturday and City play on Monday away at Everton, and they could be six points behind.

1:24:37Now, we've had the situation like this throughout the season, and ultimately, they've been able to claw it back. But it would certainly be, I think, a boon for us. Well, we have to win, first of all. But I think if we win to make this a six-point gap with City going to an Everton team that has European aspirations, it does get pretty interesting in my mind. now we do need to get to the champions league final as well so you're gonna have the same question in reverse lewis which is how much does the the home leg of the semi-final play into mikhail's mind on saturday and everybody's sick of me talking about this which that could apply to really any aspect of this podcast over the years but when we were competing for the champions league in the title two seasons ago we played a pretty strong team against villa at home and put in a pretty strong performance, which is what people forget.

1:25:27We lost that game 2-0, but it was 0-0 when he started making subs. And there were subs like Odegaard off and Emil Smith-Rowe on, and that was at a time when Smith-Rowe wasn't really being used in a 0-0 game that we had to win because we had Bayern coming up in midweek away, admittedly. So how much do you think Mikel will try to, again, split the baby, get some of the players he needs out there against Fulham, use some of them in limited capacity? what do you expect you'll see on Saturday? You can't split the baby. Don't split the baby. I mean, I will say that. That would be very bad for a baby.

1:26:02I have a baby. You cannot split them. Yeah, don't do not split the baby. I think Mikel Arteta should split the baby. Okay, but only metaphorically. Yes. Yeah, I think none of these exist in a vacuum. None of these games exist in the baby. Babies also cannot exist in a vacuum. No, carry on. No, I learned that the hard way. I'm leaving that alone. But I think you've just given yourself up. Go ahead, please.

1:26:34The game on Tuesday is just around the corner. And if we beat Fulham, but shag the players and nobody can run on Tuesday, and the physical effect, I think the mental effect as well, the knock-on effect. I don't know how we go into Tuesday. If we, it's just all about the balance. If we rotate completely against Fulham and we drop points and Man City win on Monday night comfortably, and it looks like it's going to cost us the title, like mentally as well, like Tuesday has a whole different, there's disappointment going into Tuesday. There's a whole different weight on what Tuesday means because it looks like the league's been lost or thrown away, however you'd like to put it.

1:27:18I don't think the players, the fan base, can emotionally take the blow of a bad performance and a bad result on Saturday. So it has to be a team that can win. It has to be a team that gives us the best possible chance to win. The ideal scenario is that we fly out the blocks and then he can just take players off a couple of goals up with half an hour to go and put his mind on Tuesday. We've not been a couple of goals up for a while. So I'm not expecting that to happen. But we have started games, I think, quite well recently. I think there's been an intention, more of an intention, to start games on the front foot.

1:28:01We talked about the first half last night, obviously, in Madrid. I think the first half or the starts of the first half against Manchester City, away from home, against Sporting in that second leg in the Champions League. I think there's been an intention for Arsenal to make sure the games are played in the opposition half from the off. And I think if we're going to sort of talk about rotating and what do we do, I would like to see players do that and give everything for 45 minutes and then make the changes at halftime if we feel like we need to keep Tuesday in mind. If Saka can start this one on Saturday, start him.

1:28:38If Eze can start, start him. If you think only one of them can start, or if you think the pair of them can only start one of Saturday and Tuesday, maybe split it. Maybe start Eza on Saturday or Saka and then the other one on Tuesday. It's really a balancing act, I think. Injuries have done us so many times this season. We can't afford to lose anyone else. We just can't. Not at this stage of the season when that rocky March-April form, it does feel like we've we're not playing brilliantly but we've kind of clawed ourselves out of how badly we were playing a month ago I just can't watch us lose anyone else and have to go to West Ham in a week and have to play Madrid on Tuesday without Saka, without Eze, without Odegaard Yeah, we beat Fulham away this season 1-0 and get this, Leo Trussard scored the winning goal Remember that?

1:29:36Yeah Used to do that, yeah Yeah, yeah. Fulham, an interesting team, sitting 10th, minus two goal difference. Only Leeds, Burnley, and Wolves have fewer points away from home this season. So not been great on their travels. They have players that scare me, but I also think that their hail-end connection means that surely, surely, they'll be happy to roll over and have their tummy tickled. It is an interesting one. They just beat Villa. But this is the time of the season when a team like Fulham, you might think would say, we don't have much to play for. We're kind of on the beach and they're not fully motivated.

1:30:12The problem is just about everybody could make Europe in the middle of the table right now. So it's like, hope springs eternal for them and they will be rested. But if you want to know how bad they are, this is how bad Fulham are. Try to get your head around this. They lost to Southampton in the FA Cup. That's how bad Fulham are. Kidding, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. Lewis, I think the interesting thing is, is like the center backs almost surely will have to play. Gabby and Saliba, is there any thought in your mind that at some point that is not sustainable? That we could wake up one morning and go, ah, here we go, the Fulham game, going to be nice and straightforward, and it's Calafiori at center back, or it's Muscara at center back.

1:30:49I mean, we keep talking about don't run Saka into the ground, or don't run Declan Rice into the ground, but no one's saying that about Gabby and Saliba, who just keep lining up every three days and playing at the back. I think maybe some of the strains showing on Gabby, whose performances have not been maybe at the absolute highest level we're used to, even Saliba made a little bit of an error in Madrid, but these guys are just having to turn up and play every three days. Any thought that there could be a surprise in that position? No, and I really didn't need you to get me thinking about the idea.

1:31:23You need some anxiety? I'm your man. I'm using one of those guys, right? It's just not been stressful enough watching Arsenal this season. So finally, you can crank that up to 11 and get us all worrying about the fitness of Gabriel and Saliba. I think it's a lesson for next season, for sure, though. I think this is something that needs to be thought about a bit more by Mikel Arteta. We have Muscara, we have Hincapia, let's use them. the problem is we've seen how hard it is even at home, even against bottom half sides to get over the line in a Premier League game I think Gabriel in particular defensively yeah, but we do not score many goals and we score a lot of our goals from corners and our corners, even when he's not the one on the end of them, are dangerous because the opposition are so focused on one guy being a threat that we can maneuver defensive systems around and create spaces in different ways.

1:32:28I mean, even last week, it's a short corner, right? It's a short corner routine. But there were guys at the back post marking Gabriel and focused on Gabriel, which creates the space for us to play that short corner and play those passes that get the ball to Eberichie in a good shooting position a couple of times. So I think we can lessen the burden on Gabriel, weirdly enough, by being a better team offensively next season. We've got to see at times games where when Calafuri is back that Hincapio plays at centre-back or Mascara plays at centre-back a little bit more often. But I don't think over this stretch of games, unless somebody is struggling for fitness really, really badly, I just don't think it can come into my heart as thinking at the moment.

1:33:17Yeah, I think unfortunately you're right. And it's the damned if you do, damned if you don't, because if someone pulls up with an injury, there's going to be the usual claims of overplaying. And if you drop points because you try to rotate someone, there's going to be the usual complaints about the drop points. And I've always said, I think the way you win things is at this time of the season, your best players are on the pitch. and this is the time of the season when you have to have your best players on the pitch in every single game and it's just depends have you kept them healthy enough have they kept themselves healthy enough to be able to be on the pitch midweek against Madrid is the last midweek fixture we have this season I mean there's not much season left but if you get past you know even that right there's a Tuesday Tuesday to Sunday gap between that and West Ham as well so it's not this is this is a really horrible week playing Wednesday, Saturday, Tuesday.

1:34:10It's a real crunch. Uh, the, the, the three fixtures really quickly, but you know, even, even though that's a midweek one, obviously, uh, on Tuesday night, the gap to West Ham is, is okay as well. So, and it's in London, both games in London. There's no traveling. We don't leave London again now until, until the end of the season until hopefully we go to Budapest, the Champions League final, but we don't leave London again now, uh, you know, across the, the Champions League semi-final, with the rest of the league games. And everyone can sleep in their own beds and hopefully put their feet up. And hopefully it's not a huge difference, but hopefully that makes a little bit of a difference as well.

1:34:46Yeah. And then after West Ham, the Burnley game, as disgraceful as it is on a Monday. So you have Sunday to Monday. So he's just got to get through these next two. He says, hand-waving a game against Fulham with everything on the line and then the second leg of a semifinal. But you get the idea. I think my instinct is that he may try to push someone, even if it's to the bench. Maybe Akai Havertz makes a bench, surprisingly. Maybe he starts Bakayo Saka and sees if he can go 50 minutes with the effort to maybe give him another 60 minutes in midweek, knowing that then you've got till Sunday and maybe he can handle that.

1:35:37I think the hardest thing in football is to say take it one game at a time because every one of those players will know they have a chance to make a Champions League final on Tuesday. Fulham has been a tricky fixture for us. It's just, it's been a banana skin for us. So Mikel certainly will have that to be able to point to to say, you've fouled this game up before. the obvious dream scenario is that you get yourself to your point a couple of goals lead and you can play the end of the game with that in mind but even still at 2-0 it only takes one goal and suddenly you don't have the players on the pitch you want to see out a win so I don't think there's any world where this isn't nervy I do think we can get it over the line I mean there are opportunities for Mikel to do something we don't expect maybe he trusts Max from the start and says give me a really fun hour here Max we need you and then he can rest Nani and rest Saka but he has them in reserve if he needs them maybe a Gabriel Jesus starts off the wing but this is the hard part because for a team that doesn't score goals very much how much rotation and experimentation do you want to do with the attack you could say he could do a ton of experimentation because it doesn't work with the top guys so you could try I mean in midfield could you see a Norgaard could he look at Declan Rice and go I just can't keep pushing him or Zubamendi but which one of those should you prioritize resting because they both played a ton there is no easy answer other than these guys have to gut it out they just have to gut it out and we I think we are in for another nerby day on Saturday I'm sorry to say but I think they have it in them to get past it and then my preference would be to try to gut it out to maybe start Max maybe start Jesus you know do what you can and have Saka there able to start in midweek, get to the Champions League final.

1:37:29Because the thing is, we could win all our league games and still not win the league. You know what I mean? But if we get past Atleti on Tuesday, think of how high we're going to be flying the rest of the season knowing that Champions League final in Budapest is out there waiting for us. It almost takes... See, I think, Lewis, it almost takes the pressure off us in the league in a way because it's like no matter what happens now, you can't take away from us that we have a chance to win the Champions League final. So right now the pressure on the league is like, we don't want to come away with nothing we don't want to come away with nothing but if you've qualified for the champions league final you can go into those league games and granted you know it's west ham burnley and palace so it they're games you you hopefully can win but you go into them knowing we've got that out there for us you know you can't take that away from us versus this fear of losing everything you know i do think that's the difference in the champions league game like I think you saw that difference last night.

1:38:21I think the players, which is crazy for a team that hasn't, a club that hasn't won the Champions League and a team that hasn't won a trophy together. I think you could see the players did not feel the pressure that they felt, say, against Newcastle on Saturday because everything is about the league. Like, that's so pent up. It is a bottle with the lid on that has been shook and shook and shook and it could explode at any moment. I think the players know the fans are going to explode if we don't win the league and the media is going to explode if we don't win the league. And Mikel Arteta is definitely going to explode if we don't win the league.

1:39:01And it's that bomb under the table. And I do think there is a freedom in the Champions League games that doesn't exist in the league for that reason. I just don't know how... If we do win on Tuesday, but the league doesn't go our way, I don't know how everyone's going to handle that. I worry about what that does. Maybe not for the Champions League final, but long-term and looking ahead to next season. I agree with that. I worry about what that does. I think coming in second for a fourth straight season, Lewis, that's going to be painful no matter how you do it. I don't want to contemplate that right now.

1:39:45obviously it could happen it's in our hands and it's not and it's an awful position to be in it would be so lovely if we could just say yep that's alright four games left win them you win the league done there's something freeing about that level of clarity and knowing that it's in your hands or knowing that it's not if the situation was slightly different and it both is and isn't we could win 3-0 on Saturday and it looks fantastic and then Man City could go win 7-0 at Everton and suddenly it's like, well, Jesus, the goal difference and the swing there and the momentum and the confidence. It's an awful situation to be in right now.

1:40:25And it's a great situation to be in right now. We have to enjoy and embrace it because… Yeah, good luck. A few years ago, we were all praying for, right? Yeah, I mean, it is the case, right? I desperately want to see us to get to a Champions League final. But thinking about Bayern or PSG in a Champions League final, like my palms are sweating already. So that's what football does to you. All the things you want, all your hopes and dreams that you want, you have to go through a crucible of fire to get them and we're going to go through it together. So we'll see Saturday a game we have to win. There's a part of me that wonders if playing these harder fixtures, if going to the Metropolitano and playing in the semifinal of the Champions League can make it just that bit easier to come back home and play Fulham.

1:41:07But let's be realistic. the results that follow champions league away fixtures whether that's Europa League teams or champions league teams are always worse across the season so you really really really have to lock in the key is to know that we will not be finishing the Saturday's game stronger physically so we're going to need to get off to a good start and we'll see if that happens and uh I expect the Emirates crowd to be right behind the team I really think the Emirates crowd will be behind this team the rest of the way in a big, big way, both on Saturday and on Tuesday. So very excited about that.

1:41:42Lewis, we should leave it there. I do want to say thanks again to everyone who gave to the fundraiser. Really remarkable. And like I said, I put out a video thanking everybody for that. Andrew gave an immense amount of money to charity this month and just really incredible what he's done. We obviously gave our share as well, but most importantly, so many of you, over 3 ,600 of you gave your share. So thank you for that. We will have a Friday night Clive tomorrow on Patreon. Saliba50s code if you want to try it for a couple of bucks and a couple of quid. See what you think for the first month. Check it out.

1:42:11So, Lewis, thanks. It's great to talk to you, man. We'll talk to you very soon. Thanks, Elliot. All right. My name is Elliot Smith. We love you. And we will talk to you after Arsenal 10. Full of Nill.