Arsenal Get Gyokeres

34:11It's interesting because I think one of the nice things about being able to observe where the holes are in a player's game or where the weaknesses are in a player's game is that it calls attention to what the club is prioritizing and the strengths of a player's game. You know what I mean? Like, if a player isn't a good dribbler but is a great sprinter, that tells you something. We're not buying the player to get on the ball and beat a first man. We're buying a player to run in behind and challenge a back line, right? If a player is incredibly hardworking defensively, but a little workmanlike in attack, maybe it says we're looking for that position to help us plug some holes in the way we defend.

34:47I mean, there's a lot of ways you can see what a team is trying to do with the strengths and weaknesses of a player. And I think if Victor Jokres is on the ball in buildup and transition early a lot, I don't think he will be a success and I don't think we will look great. I don't think that's what he's there to do. I think he's there to challenge back lines in ways that we have not done, to not pull out to the wing and not drop deep and collect and lay it off. I think he is there to make a lot of repeat runs in behind to sprint, to push, to force center backs to move and enforcing center backs to move also create more opportunities for our wide players.

35:26There's one other angle I want to come at this from. And by the way, it's not like we're going to stop talking about this player and his qualities. We're going to be talking about this for a long time and hopefully talking about his qualities of repeatedly putting it in the back of the net, which this guy has the clear ability to do. Make no mistake, to Clive's point, someone who can shoot the ball hard and accurately makes us better, period. And he can do that. But Tim, I think the mechanics of the deal are worth analyzing because you could have liked Sesco more, but the thing that's clear is the Sesco deal was not a good deal.

35:59It looks like it was 90 million euro. It wasn't clear the player wanted to come. There were rumors of him wanting a release clause. the club were impossible to deal with. And what does Berta go do? He goes and gets a guy that's one of the top scoring strikers in Europe wanted by Manchester United, gets him to give up a couple million dollars of his own wage, gets his agent to give up$6 million of his own fees in the deal, and gets the deal down to 63 million euro. And I just think any way you look at it, forget whether you think this was the right player. Berta has done an excellent job with deal mechanics here.

36:34And I'm wondering what you think of that because I think we've done some brilliant transfers in the last few years in terms of making our team stronger. I'm not sure we've always been brilliant at the mechanics of the deal. We've paid a lot of full fair deals for a lot of the players we acquired. What do you think of what maybe Berta showed in terms of his core competency of getting the best deal for Arsenal Football Club in this one? Yeah, definitely. I would say at the risk of sounding smug, which is a risk i run very consistently go back and listen to a conversation we had maybe four weeks ago when like i i'm sorry i'm really trying not to sound like judgmental and superior but i am so i will in like that's like when adam on the show on friday said i am a uh i'm a genius i'm a reasonable genius no but he said something that really resonated with with me actually about like the reaction to Maduweke and he's like do you know what sometimes we should just say some some people are stupid babies and leave it alone but but like like a month ago we were having a conversation about when are you gonna panic and it was like it's like the 10th of June or something I was like I cannot I cannot believe we are sorry I sound like Victor Meldry now I just I couldn't believe we were having that conversation in the middle of jesus i can't i just could not and still can't believe how hysterical people got and i still judge those people but anyway there was like a more kind of reasonable like oh when should it be done when's when should when should we start like all right now's not the time to be cautious like be anxious about this when should we be anxious and i think i kind of said i felt like that what would happen is that we're trying to negotiate with both strikers and that probably just before the Asia pre-season tour we'd pull the trigger on someone and I think that's pretty much exactly what we've done so well done me for predicting that that was exactly what was going to happen but but that seems to have been like a theme of the summer right you know either negotiating with the player like basically getting the player before we go to the club through intermediaries um seems to be one way we're doing it but also like negotiating with different players and using them all as leverage against each other but but also it's just been a really sensible way um of doing things particularly when we had two striker targets who no one else seems to be in for um surprisingly or not uh liverpool i think spent most of their budget on on like a really good attacker don't get me wrong but they probably didn't have the financial room to do a deal like this man city don't need to united wanted gilkerish we do know we do know that but well yeah but they can't they can't do it because of their psr position they haven't been able to do you remember as well and i was talking about in in that podcast was talking about in boomo and everyone's like oh united are going to do in boomo before we have they done it no have they bollocks they have not done it that deal is not done nobody has bought that player so please can you just stop saying like oh awesome are the only ones who drag out transfers no they get dragged out everywhere um and that one just because you see a link to a player with another club in your head it's done it's not done that that's been going on for a month and it's still not done because man united are buggered psr wise but anyway so like i i do feel like burt has done a very very good job in this window however at the same time i i don't want to go um go too overboard because i do think there are some contexts that have been relatively generous as well so for example we kind of kept our powder dry in the two uh preceding windows and that's created a context which has also given us a strong psr headroom and it's a non-tournament summer so actually earlier when i go back and look at what did we do summer 2023 havertz timber rice all of those were done before pre-season tour weren't they more or less um it was raya that was a little bit later and we had to do that on loan because again we didn't have the psr headroom and that seemed like a an opportunistic signing summer 2022 the big signing jesus sinchenko viera they were all done before pre-season tour so the non-tournament summers we do tend to get stuff done it will be interesting next summer when it's a world cup you know but but then maybe we won't have as much to do i think also every squad just has a cycle you just get that some you get that quiet summer sometimes where you don't do a lot you don't need to do a lot go and look at liverpool last summer they had a very quiet summer but then sometimes just naturally in a squad build you've got five or six things that you need to do maybe some stuff you've held over like replacing your two 32 33 year old central midfielders and you know or we don't really have backup for Saliba we need a backup goalkeeper like lots of little pieces of admin just kind of come to a head at the same time so I don't think next summer that we're going to be making six or seven signings i kind of hope not otherwise that means we got a lot wrong this summer and we'll have and it will be a world cup year so so hopefully next summer we'll have you know it'll be like a quieter summer on the back of a world cup and maybe that's really good planning so i do think there's been a generous context where we've had a lot to do a lot of the stuff we have done is like squad backup stuff as well so like nor guard kepper probably not difficult deals to do in fairness like this one's been more difficult and if we want an ese or a rodrigo that's more difficult that's more likely to go into august so i i think the signs are really positive but i do also think there's like a fairly generous context there yeah you're basically saying the conditions were there to be successful but you still have to be successful um and if i look at just the yorkersh deal and i say Last summer, they were quoting prices of$100 million, and he was the top striker in Europe and had just as good a season this season, and now he's going for€63 million and gave up$2 million of his own money, and his agent gave up$6 million.

42:40You compare that with other deals being done, and it just looks well negotiated, is what I will say. I think sometimes directors of Football Clive are viewed as the oracle. They find the players. They decide who to sign. They negotiate the deals. They do it all. We know that's not true. It's a collaborative process. but I do think directors of football like Berta have a big responsibility in closing the deal and the mechanics of the deal and the numbers and that's where you can evaluate them did they do a good job with the deal itself and this one feels like a job well done do you have any quick thoughts on the business Berta's done before we move on to some more interesting topics yeah you gotta look

43:18Elliot:at it as a whole haven't you a couple of those deals like the Kepa one you know we knew about that five mil you know just did that one really really quickly suits our dressing room done christian norgaard i didn't know about that one you know never thought about that at any point as soon as you see two clips with crikey he works you know look at the price done they look at his character you know he's he brought some joy back to the arse of the world last week with his signing video and you think crikey someone's done their homework there you know mascara signing about to happen you know watching on the 21 tournament you look at this player and think okay we have been linked but so rb leipzig maybe we won't get him look at you do the germany route we do game he only wants arsenal the number's going to be good this is exciting stuff you know and of course we're we're we're fans right so we know what's coming so we we all want one more right and and i'm sure you can talk about him later elliot well you'll want one more that's just the nature of of who we are and how we operate and i'm i'm really impressed and i'm not going to pretend i knew about him before because i didn't you know i didn't know how he operated and everyone's talking like oh we dished what he does no none of us knew well i didn't know you know but to see him operate this way it didn't really really good and i got the next part of his cv is going to be on the sales side of things earlier because we've got three or four to to move and there are some links towards them it's like oh this is good because that's a big part of job as well you've got to you've got to talk to people and say look he's not going to work for you here can we can i help you find another place and when someone's got more experience who's got more contacts that that helps on the exits as well so i'm really pleased we went for more experienced sporting director in the first place to bring that institutional knowledge into the club i really wanted that and let's see proof he's proving the pudding right but so far really really really good yeah and i think norgaard's a great example you touched on it but i think it's just worth restating someone figured out because they quoted spurs 40 million or something someone figured out that to arsenal it could be less that it could be a really good way to backfill a midfielder we're losing at a really attractive price and someone also figured out this guy loves the club i mean you cannot watch any of the video put out of him seeing his shirt in the car or seeing his son in the shirt and not realize how much this means to him.

45:44Someone figured those things out and got that deal done in a relatively quick period of time when they figured out that there was going to be an absence in the squad that they needed to fill. That's just really good, efficient operating. I think the fact that we are going to get on the plane for Singapore and have all of these players in and ready to go was important and it was well executed. Whether you're inclined to give a lot of credit or just a little credit, you're judged on whether you accomplished the job. And the job seems to me to be largely accomplished with the exception of maybe one more player, which we will discuss.

46:17Go ahead, Tim. Can I maybe ask a question just in the interests of, no, maybe a bit of criticism for the club here. We maybe could have got Giocares in January for this price. Do you think? and do you think maybe the fact that we didn't do that potentially because we were waiting for sesco and instead we've waited for five months to end up like do you think there's any quick i know that's all captain hindsight stuff but do you think there's any criticism g for that yes but and i believe this firmly and clive i'll let you answer that i think the club the club's evaluation of jokeres was influenced by burda's arrival i believe that burda really rates this player and hasn't had and has come in and said guys I really want to encourage you that this player is at the level we need and probably shared some data and shared his video and shared his perspective because it's been widely reported that Berta scouted him when he was in Madrid that he really liked the player and I'm not saying Arsenal hated him I'm just saying I don't think that there was I don't think that there was consensus on him and Berta to his credit has come to the club and I think generated a consensus that this is the right guy to get and that he's gettable in the time we need to so clive do you have any quick thoughts on that before we pivot yeah my thoughts changed uh

47:32Elliot:during your answers i i do think also we spoke about that shows that i've answered it really well terrific well i think it's i don't want to say what you just said but hey last summer was more damaging than we realized you know because everything we did thereafter was a knock-on effect and when it came to january we didn't have a sporting director we didn't have those people in place he didn't arrive till march and so to show that sort of financial display at that point in time to to almost leave this open to and work to do was probably easier decision to make when kai havers was running around like a three-year-old when kai havers pulled his hamstring on a mid-season break you look a little bit dumb you know you look a little of it oh why have you taken that risk and then we're in scramble mode i do think you know and i do this right i've defended things inside the club players i've liked and think about why the how could i defend him you know i remember defending kalashnik and his left foot crosses you know and then after a while you couldn't get to those areas to make those crosses but you defend them in the context of the environment that you have at that particular time and i've and i you Looking back now, it's still early.

48:49Elliot:I'm actually pleased we've moved on from the Edu era. I think everyone has their time in the club, their role and their influence based on your projects, where you are in that life cycle. But maybe it was just time for something else. But while we were making that fundamental change for our football infrastructure, our people infrastructure, sorry, we froze. We froze, we held station, and we gambled on the health and fitness of our current players and it did not work. So now we say, rather than half blow it in January, you say, okay, let's reload in the summer. And we all felt we would. And the reason why, there's no choice.

49:30Elliot:If you don't, you go backwards. There was no choice here. The fact that we've done it well, we seem to be doing it well, is what I find really, really interesting. So there was no choice here. You either lose your jobs or you make the change. simple. And Tim, not to disagree with you per se, but I think that this is some context that's worth noting. I think the presumption that you could have gotten Gilchrist in January and gotten him for the same fee, I don't know that that's right. And I'll give you just two data points that are worth noting. Sporting pipped hated Lisbon rival Benfica to the title by two points.

50:04And that was basically decided on the last day. Sporting also had what they probably would have regarded as a winnable Champions League knockout tie against Dortmund in February. So I think the idea that they were going to get rid of their bagsman, their talisman. Bagsman. I like that. Look, I got to be the young man that I am.

50:23Elliot:You're becoming a Brit by the second. I'm just saying, the culture flows through me. You know what I'm saying, Tim? I think the idea that they definitely would have parted with the guy they rely on to score goals at a time when they were fiercely contesting a title and also still in the Champions League. I don't know that that's a fait accompli. So just another perspective there. There's a lot of things still to cover. I want to talk Eze. I want to talk Mascara. Ethan a bit. I'm already 50 minutes in. And again, I can hear, see, I have a talent. It's a unique talent. I can hear the listener as we record.

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53:45not it okay by the way if you appreciate us and what we do give us a five-star review we would love that. I never really cared about that because, you know, all I care about is that we deliver the best possible podcast that our little brains and mouths can deliver. But it has been told to me that those five-star reviews help other people find the show. And we want other people to find the show because, well, then this whole thing just carries on, carries on the love, the community, the whole thing. Give us a five-star review, damn it. He puts the lotion in the basket or else he gets the hose again you ever see silence of the lamps quality no i ain't gonna talk about rubbish oh my god it's not films it's not football yeah he's watching comps nothing but comps for clive all right clive if it's nothing but comps for you another deal looks like it's close and that is christian mascara again just a really nice example of efficiency we need a backup right sided center back here's one at a good price from a club that has to sell very talented right age wants arsenal looks like it's going to get done in time for preseason i don't think we need to spend a lot of time on it because defenders aren't fun only attackers are fun what do you think of christian mascara and the likelihood that this man will also be with us in singapore

55:00Elliot:i think he will be um i'd like to call him a right-footed defender which i think we need and um obviously he's not quite i sort of want to get away from his term backup because backup drives people crazy if it's backup and it costs 52 million the world can end and spray pranks come out right if it's backup and people are happy with the price oh that's a good signing that is we have to think does he does he fit our group does he look like a an absolute defender that can defend on a half and learn one-on-one can play a couple of five you know the meme of the guy pointing to his head that you know the gif the guy pointing to his head like nobody's a backup if everybody gets injured.

55:45There you go. But it's true, though, isn't it?

55:48Elliot:The way we contextualize moves, it can cause tension, right? So you have to think about what can this guy do for you? And he plays left-center-back and right-center-back and has played right-back. And basically, we've just canceled a contract with somebody who does a lot of that stuff. And can play all four positions. right so um i say it makes perfect sense it makes a lot of sense he's at the right age he's got for me the way we defend now is quite clear you know we've moved away from the david louises and the rob holdings we've got people that can really go one-on-one with our pressing style and be happy in white spaces all around them because they're aggressive they follow people all the way in and if they do get beat they can they can win a race going backwards you know so you can spot an arsehole defending now can't you a million miles away honestly it's really easy it's really as soon you see this one you'd have to watch that many comps just watch one and you'll go okay coach get on with it you know seriously it's all there isn't it it's all there he just needs to learn have time on the ball learn what we do always polish up your technique recognize you're playing against probably the some of the biggest and fastest strikers in the world in the premier league that give yourself a yard on occasions but know when to be really aggressive on others that only comes from experience and um i really like this sign for the moment we are linked with him i liked it and then i thought i spoke to phil actually offline i said phil mate i like him and phil thought to laugh mate i'll be gonna get him and i just switched off so when he come back up i thought brilliant brilliant you know so um so really really happy with him i hope he i hope he's as good as i think he's in my mind because i haven't seen him play live yet yeah i i don't have strong takes on this because it's hard to scout defenders.

57:36The data doesn't tell you much. To Clive's point, I think what I see is an Arsenal defender in type. And so the rest of it for me is just, we'll find out. These backup players, as Clive called them, these developmental players, let's say that, that you're bringing in to develop their skillset and maybe play limited minutes for now can go a lot of different directions uh we scouted fabio vier and i thought he was brilliant in terms of his talent you know it didn't work out for a number of reasons um so they can go all different directions we'll just have to see but i think it's good that we're getting this deal done unless you have strong take on mascara i want to move to another point tim uh but just very quickly i think first of all that there's two points here i i was listening to the ask cast earlier and they were talking about how summers often seem to be a product product of of Mikel Arteta's trauma, for want of a better word.

58:29This is actually a position we weren't punished in the last two seasons, I don't think, but we could have been. If Saliba's hamstring had gone a couple of months earlier, we really could have been, but we weren't. But we've taken that insurance anyway. I think the Tomiyasu point is a good one. I think, apologies, someone said this on Twitter or Blue Sky, and I can't remember who, but someone made the point that we're negotiating contracts at the moment with sakura and saliva and we're buying players who can play their positions which which could be viewed as a kind of maybe a product of some of those discussions maybe a kind of yeah i want to stay here but i'm kind of worried about what my achilles tendon is going to look like when i'm 27 years old pure speculation but i think that's worth considering i think it's a

59:17Elliot:great chill just went down all the listeners spines no i think honestly that's a massive point that is because to find players that want to compete with those two players you know it's that shows their character doesn't it it's back to character again you know to have a player that says i look i'm so you have to have multi-positional abilities so i mean you'd you're not always sitting behind two world stars you know so i think it's a really really good point i mean what i'll be interested in tim is if you know if if they want this because we just assume that they want to and can play 60 games but honestly sometimes we watch slieber last year and he was dragging himself out there mate dragging himself out there they want to show the best of themselves and so we do need we do need this group to be of a level that we've never had before because i reckon michael Arteta's career took a change the moment Stieber and Tom Yassin went down the same game against Sporting Lisbon I just wondered just one of them went down what would have happened that season you know injury has really caught him at the wrong times and I think he's unlucky sometimes or we've taken risks that have manifested I'm not sure people can choose where they want to go but I won't forget that night things could have been very different in that season if he wasn't for that.

1:00:41And to your point about these long seasons and playing too many games, I mean, we're not going to talk about this game for obvious reasons, but there was a game played yesterday and PSG finally hit a wall after 80 games or whatever the hell they played in a season where, you know, they just, they finally, finally got chinned, you know? And I think the thing about PSG we've been saying for a long time is they have a small group that they rely on. Not that they don't have a lot of talent and they've spent a hell of a lot of money, but they rely on pretty much the same players over and over again.

1:01:09they've all stayed fit. They're able to pick them every game. And it took about 80 games or whatever the hell they played. And finally, it caught up with them. So you want to be in a position. I have said, I don't want to be a hypocrite. The big clubs don't rotate as much as we think in the major competitions. The good players tend to play every Premier League and Champions League game. But they don't have to play the League Cup and they don't have to play the FA Cup. And every once in a while, you can sneak 60 minutes instead of 90. Those kinds of things by the end of the season matter when it's winning time.

1:01:41So this all helps and we'll, we'll see what happens when he comes in. Look, Tim, we're not going to talk Meduake today. We did a big Meduake debate debate on the last pod. We've done a Meduake scouting video and there will be time to talk more Meduake and we're going to get to see him in an Arsenal shirt in the not too distant future. But I do think that everybody's holding on for that one last fun signing. You know, that one last fun signing, we got the defenders we need great we got the backup keeper the midfield sorted we got the striker that's exciting we got a winger that people are mixed on let's just say it that way for the time being and move on but that one that's going to have everybody collectively high-fiving is is abracia as a or maybe rodrigo it's it's one of those it sure seems like we got to sell one for one of those deals to happen so i'm curious to just get your state of the left wing thoughts in terms of how important it is that we do get one in and the need to move one out for that to happen.

1:02:41Yeah, I think that pretty much shapes the rest of the... I think the rest of the window will be shaped by sales. Largely now, I think the focus will probably move on to getting some people out the door who need to go out the door. And hopefully, as much as we've had players who've been eager to join, I'm kind of hoping there are some players who are quite eager to go. um you know the ones we want to go but you know what i mean like it feels like there are a few players that we're we're looking to shed this summer whose careers are stuck and who need to go for their own sake as much as like i'm looking at fabio vieira you've got to go somewhere else mate and you've got to try and you know realize your potential somewhere else in chenco your career's stalled you've got to go somewhere else you know that even reese nelson like you know reese nelson still feels like a young player and he's not so like i'm hoping that there's a willingness on the part of some of those players sambi lakonga as well like to go right no i need to get my career started now i'm stuck um and hopefully you know fewer players where it's like no no i don't want to go i'm happy here picking up my salary like i think most of those players are an age as well where maybe they will want to go they're not 32 33 going no no i quite like this salary i've I want to take it into my dotage.

1:04:03But I think you're right. I think, you know, in terms of like, again, that's admin, really. I think it is probably does Trossard go and does therefore like, say, Eze or Rodrigo come in. Like, Rodrigo, if that's going to happen, which I don't get the sense it will, I've always had the sense that's something that would happen. If he goes anywhere, I think it's going to happen in the last week of August, most likely that tends to be how things happen with madrid as well when they kind of they push a superstar out or they push someone out it tends to because they want someone else in whereas actually this time it does just look like a difference with the manager really um and and as a i feel like and i could be wrong here because there's a release clause isn't there so there is a price at which that will be done whether palace like it or not and it i think the player would definitely be up for it that is another player who's 27 who to close point on the last podcast he's just scored the winning goal for palace in the fa cup final it's not getting any better than that quite frankly and and again it's probably his last chance for a move like this i'm sure i'm sure he wouldn't take much convincing and there is a release clause so there is a price at which that can be done, but you're probably looking at to meet that price or something close to it, someone of significance is probably going to have to go out the door.

1:05:32And I imagine the club would be most open to that being Trossard, but maybe if it has to be Martinelli, maybe they'll go there as well. But we've got potentially, I think it's quite a healthy position to be in. We've got two players who are probably sellable, but the world's not going to end if they stay. basically so you know we've got those players who it's like okay if you stay we think you'll contribute most likely next season um but if you don't we can you know we can refresh that so i think that's a healthy position to be in i do think that that might well play out over the rest of the window or over the next month or so if you like hearing someone just read out numbers on a podcast, and I'm sure you do, you can check out my last transfer daily because I read out the minutes of attackers, minutes played in the league of attackers at City, Liverpool, PSG, Madrid, Barca, Bayern.

1:06:34And five players play over a thousand minutes in the league, five. I think one of them had a sixth player who, I think PSG had a sixth that was at like 996 or something. Okay, so it's five players. Leo, Martinelli, Jokeresh, Kai, Saka, Meduake. That's six. Eze, that's seven. If you want to throw Ethan in the group, that's eight. I just told you five players get over a thousand minutes, if you're lucky. You cannot make it work with eight players. Even if that's what you need or think you need, it does not work. City doesn't do it. Liverpool don't do it. PSG don't do it. Bayern don't do it. Barca don't do it.

1:07:16Real Madrid don't do it. I want Eze. I understand why we have to move one out to get him. Not even financially. Just because you cannot keep Leo and Martinelli on the money they're on and have Leo play 500 minutes or 300 minutes. It doesn't work. So I do think Clive won us to go. Now, if you say it's Martinelli, would I accept Martinelli out Eze in? I'd accept it. A, I'm not sure it definitely makes us better. I think it probably does, but I don't know definitely. And B, it certainly moves the age profiles around in a way I don't love because you got 27-year-old Gil Goresh and 27-year-old Eze, and you're moving out 24-year-old Martinelli in it.

1:07:53Eh, I don't love it. I'd take it. But I think Leo out, Reece Nelson, if you can move him out, Vieira out, Eze in, it's a deal we can get done. Rodrigo, sure, there's a dream of Rodrigo there. I think it's a harder deal, and I think it's a much less certain and much more expensive deal. So for me, Leo out, Eze in would be the cherry on the icing on the cake for me. You agree with all that? Are you that mess of an argument I've made there? Do you have a different perspective?

1:08:18Elliot:Well, Rodrigo is not my dream. Eze is someone that I think would bring lots of sunshine to the club if he was to come along. And there's two angles. The Leo one sort of feels right. But I think Bayern Munich are in for him. Obviously, his manager is a Belgian colleague, and they've had an injury in that space, and they could do with somebody that can play on the interior and on the outside with Siala's injury and also help him on his return to play. So I can see a lot of sense for Bayern to go for that rather than go heavy on a Diaz, which is a big price for them, etc. So maybe that might happen.

1:08:59Elliot:That could change things. So from our age profile sort of thing, it makes a lot of sense because we upgrade. I think a lot of the signs we have so far have been, we need to do this to fill gaps that have appeared. but we this is this is like an upgrade your careers is like a jesus replacement really you know um this is an upgrade opportunity you know and maybe um by the way case an upgrade as well on that positions and those multiple positions this is where i really want to see what we how we operate you know this is it now are we prepared to do an upgrade for somebody that's done really really well for us and really push this out.

1:09:39Elliot:For me, that's what we should be doing. But if you think about it from a business point of view, maybe Martinelli's the better one to move because right now he's got a big number next to him. Next year, what we could do is crush the asset, right? If he doesn't play enough minutes, then that number won't be the same. So Trossard's number doesn't really change that much. His wages are steady. He'll still produce. So Martinelli's worth 50 60 million maybe if he goes now next year he might be 35 it's what we do isn't it when people say oh sort of bad sellers no it's about protecting your asset making sure he's got room to play so that's what we have to do better at so we don't crash the asset value so for me the trust i do think it's time you know i mean there's been rumors about it for a while saudi arabia etc i think there's time and more more importantly i think there's an opportunity if the opportunity he presents itself you should take it right so the other names are obvious if we get some money in for them i think nelson's got fulham they're looking at him you know and potentially brent for the west i'm not sure which one now um but definitely london clubs good player done well when he played last year done his hamstring i think he's going to find something since i've not seen much on him apart from dortmund a little while ago samby did some time in spain did okay again another hamstring injury so i'm not sure on his future going forward so it's all there now this is where the the new sporting director with his contacts has got to do his work uh i think it's very important because i think for all our fans that are getting used to the emotion of finally getting their striker i think as a would just send us over the top into a happy place yeah i agree with that and you know again it's just this thing with Eze where I think he can be an effective left-sided attacker and he gives you protection from being too reliant on Martin Odegaard to be the only sort of truly creative final third midfielder um and I want to be careful I don't want to dismiss what Declan Rice has done in that role or what Marino could do in that role I don't want to act like they do nothing but you know what i mean you know someone who who is a real operator on the edge of the box do you know what like i think i really want us to sign as a i and i share some of your reservations there's a bit of it's like i don't know exactly where he fits it but i'm kind of also quite attracted to that but i just feel like it would be quite unarsenal but in a in a really exciting way where we're not replacing someone we're not going uh gabriel jesus his knees gone so we're buying a striker and maybe Martina, it would just feel like he's a really good player.

1:12:26He's not replacing anyone. It's not slotting in. He's a really good player, which is kind of what Man United did for a long time. It's kind of what Man City have done. It's what Chelsea do. I'm not too keen on going too far down the chip, but maybe Roman Abramovic, Chelsea, where it's a bit like he's a really good player, so we're buying him. I'm quite attracted to that element of it, which is maybe a bit irrational, but it is where I am with it.

1:12:54Elliot:I totally agree with that, by the way. Don't try and fit him into positions. He's just a good player that can play on the left-hand side or the centre of the pitch. And whatever the game requires, get the ball to him and see what happens. And that's it. At the moment, we give the ball to Saka and see what happens. Have another one like that, completely dominant when the ball is at his feet. I don't care where he plays. I just want him to come. Honestly, I've stopped trying to put people in little boxes now. I just want him to come. I want us to be looked at differently by this type of signing.

1:13:26You can look all over world football and see players that you're not exactly sure what their position is. But you put them on the pitch and they succeed. Kai Havertz is a great example of a tweeter type player. Vertz at Liverpool. Yep. You could have that conversation. Where does he fit in at Liverpool?

1:13:40Elliot:Yep. Three positions come to mind straight away, don't they? Ten, a left eight, or a left wing. And we can have that argument. And I'm sure Liverpool fans are having it right now, but I can't wait to see him. Yeah, Jude Bellingham is one of those players that you just put him on the pitch and let him cook, right? What is his exact position? I don't know, you tell me. There's a lot of players like this. And I think Eze fits into that category. By the way, look at PSG. Who's their best striker? That winger they converted is Mane Dembele. And where does he play? He drops all over the place. He plays wherever he wants to go.

1:14:11And he presses, but then he drops deep to receive. And, you know, the idea that these players have to be, strictly speaking, suited to a specific role, I think sometimes there is a case of that. Maybe Arsenal have been guilty of having too many strikers that just aren't strikers, and now we have one that's a striker. But Ebrecht Eze is a player that he'll play over there on the left side of the pitch somewhere, don't worry. Because, by the way, Leo Troussard, you could make an argument over the last two seasons that Leo Troussard's been our best left-sided attacker, better than Martinelli. I think you can make the argument.

1:14:39I'm not saying it's definitely true, but you can make the argument. And I don't regard him as a winger. But he just kind of plays over there. He's just over there. And Eze would just be really good over there. You know what I mean, Clep?

1:14:51Elliot:Oh, absolutely, mate. Just get him on the pitch, right? Get him on the pitch. And allow him to play in the top-level European competition for one stage in his career with a couple of his mates and for the team that he loves. And every Sigal Alsa fan, mate, I don't care if he could trap it or not, we will still cheer him away just because we know the story, etc. So, yeah, this is a real feel-good one. You know, I think it's time for that. I really do. I really do. Yeah. And, I mean, feel-good is great. You also want it to be talent. This is a blend of both. I mean, this is an extremely talented player.

1:15:29And I think maybe even underrated a little bit. But, obviously, I've been in the tank firm for a long time. And, you know what? That's okay. It's okay to play as you like. One thing I think that's happened in the discourse around players is you have to be right. Everybody has to be right. This is the right player. If you think Rodrigo's the better player, the better fit, the player we should try to get and hold out for, like, be my guest. I'm in the tank for Eze. I admit it. I really like this player. I've liked him for a long time and I think he loves Arsenal and I think it would just be fun to see him in the Arsenal shirt.

1:15:59That's part of it. I want to win things. I also want to enjoy watching Arsenal and have fun and this would be very fun. And I do think, given the reaction of Meduake, some of which I think is just overstated online nonsense and some of which I think is fair because it's not the player we had in our heart and in our mind, I think that would immediately end if Eze came in and it was Eze, Jokeres, and Meduike. That is a very, very big power-up in quality across the front three. Tim, I will just ask you about Rodrigo, though, because, by the way, there was a tournament this summer. Rodrigo played in it, or I should say didn't play in it, really.

1:16:36Madrid want him gone, let's be honest. He is not in the plan. I think he's going to move. if you're Arsenal do you have to be in that discussion? Do you have to be in a situation where you say, if Rodrigo's going to move we can't just let Liverpool have an unobstructed run at him, or Bayern Munich who I think need a left side or big time have an unobstructed run at him. We have to be in that competition, or do you say, you know what we can get the guy from the Premier League who wants us and we want him and we know how the deal would work. Let's sell Leo Gédézé and Rodrigo someone else's concern.

1:17:07I think I'd favor the former but i'm not quite as high on rodrigo as other people um although although there is like a fair amount of ignorance baked into that rodrigo take i don't watch real madrid every single week so um i i i kind of think as much as there's like a what i consider to be kind of irrational trauma about former chelsea players i also think that we we kind of we have this thing about Real Madrid players where it's like oh we've got Ozil we got Odegaard they're all like that whereas I'm just not quite sure he's in that class I think it's a little bit of muscle memory like oh a guy who's fallen out of favourite Real Madrid he'll be amazing like I'm just not sure he's quite that level but maybe I'm wrong but I do think I think that you know assuming we can't do as a like tomorrow or in two weeks or whatever we should absolutely stay in that room yes because we i think we need a left-sided player um again we might have to sell someone to make room for it but like that that i think might even have been top of a lot of people's priorities for this summer and it's not done yet there's a lot of talk about maduake can play over there okay but we have to see that first like i've really seen that before um so that would be a leap of um the the plan so i'd be disappointed if we kind of said no we're not no like someone else can have him type thing um but at the same time i i think we've probably put ourselves in a position this summer that it's not like we don't have to mortgage the entire summer on it perhaps like we had to when we signed ozil like we'd mortgaged our entire summer on shaking that real madrid tree and just getting whoever the hell fell out because there are about three different players who could have.

1:19:01So I'm more relaxed about it, but I definitely wouldn't like to be ruled out of it altogether, no. Yeah, that's fair. Clive, I don't think we have to talk more about Rodrigo. There'll be time if it comes back up. So I'll just ask you one final question. There's some pictures going around and some fun stuff out there. Arsenal back in training at La Manga. There's been a training session.

1:19:22Elliot:I thought pictures of Rodrigo. I thought I missed that. Pictures of Rodrigo in the Arsenal shirt. or circulating. It depends what AI you use. Any final quick thoughts on just training and seeing the players back together? Anything you've noticed about them? Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's going to be so interesting to see what the message is for this year. Because around this time, I'll tell you to do his first interview soon, where he'll talk about the summer, probably on tour, and he'll talk about the messages, what he wants to achieve. He's probably spent time with his coach. He's now already planning preseason, planning the games, planning the selections, planning how they're going to work within the games they already have, the schedule they have, and how they're going to prepare.

1:20:03Elliot:And this will come out in his first interview, what's they're going to do slightly differently, what's different to the squad, what lessons have they learned. I think it's the most interesting of your whole season, actually, because you can't help but say what you've been talking about internally for a couple of months. And so I'm interested in that. We see all the players together. We think, yeah, you've got some good players. It's actually quite interesting to see the youth players that are in Spain right now. You know, the number, we've got a couple of really young ones there that are looking quite good, potentially, and Arsenal really do well with getting them into the group and really giving them time.

1:20:34Elliot:I just read this morning, due to the size of the squad, I wonder how many of them will go to Singapore. So probably competing for that. There's probably a short number that's going to go out to Singapore, and they're probably training together now to see who's most ready for that trip, you know, to go abroad and be part of the first team squad, like Miles and Ethan did last season with Josh Nichols, for example. and that was the start for them wasn't it we didn't suspect they'd have the impact they had but it was a it was a critical moment you know and then we saw the players how they looked after them you know on the trip was talking to on the pitch you know in the games and really really coaching them and it's really nice to see i think pre-season games are a wonderful chance to really see the team and how they operate together so i'll be going to the emberance ones so yeah that's what i'm looking at mate so far so good it's just nice to see the group again and a new training kit that no doubt we'll go out and buy.

1:21:28Got to sell some merch somehow. Guys, we've been going a while, so I think we can leave it there. We've got a lot of additional content coming this week. I'm going to try to get a pod together with Coventry and sporting contributors to talk, Yoko Resh, which I think would be fun and interesting. If you don't think that'll be fun and interesting, that's fine too. But I hope you'll like it. we'll have the transfer daily every day I do think we might be coming to the end of the usefulness of the transfer daily candidly there's really only one deal probably left to do I hear everybody going you're not getting out of it this easy bub

1:22:04Elliot:you can talk about anything no matter what about it get on with it you obviously haven't been listening to the transfer daily because that's mostly what I do anyway that's nonsense but I see really good I feel a good idea don't do yourself down I've enjoyed them I appreciate that well we'll have a Friday night Clive this Friday alright enough enough with the banter join us over on Patreon if you would AVP50 gets you half off that first month and I'm always here you can shoot me emails I'm happy to answer any questions you have Tim thanks man my pleasure as always Clive always a pleasure thank you very much my name is Elliot Smith we love you and we will talk to you after Arsenal 10 transfer in the mail Tobiasu and Kai Havertz and Martin Denny We also are flying!

1:23:18Elliot:Yep, we said free. Oh, and did we mention the cafe? So what are you waiting for? Come see all that's in store. Visit the Wayfair store today at Edens Plaza and Wilmette.