Arsenal Lose Cagey Game at Anfield, and Deadline Day Thoughts

30:48He is our first option for building up. Losing him after four minutes, I wonder if that also informs the lateness of the subs later, because you only get three sub windows, right? You can sub five players, but you only get three sub windows, especially if you don't use halftime. So that makes a big change. but boy oh boy Mascara coming in a 21 year old center back with no premier league experience and he was absolutely foot perfect and I think he deserves huge credit obviously we lost a a an important part of our passing structure but Mascara was sensational you know yeah yeah he is

31:27Elliot:he was for a kid to go into an field and be the central center back in the way we play and play like he did but as i said earlier i think it did cost us a little bit on the ball but yeah we just to come out of there with him with him not being run by anybody not losing any sort of jewels that looked exposed to me but was really really good i do think that can go back to conservative thing because i think this is a big part of how people are feeling today what they're talking about we had two selection dilemmas right so we had the choice of as enwaniere say to play in the attacking so they're the attacking selections and maybe Martinelli and Mourinho are seen as the more defensive selections and we end up going for the more defensive selections now I do think Mourinho I'm not sure people know what he is people call him a defensive midfielder I don't think he is that player you know I think he's very much a hybrid of all of the things that were required I think Mikel Seas was far more of an attacking player so in his mind that was a good selection also So Liverpool's left centre-back is their key distributor.

32:30Elliot:Like our right centre-back is ours, and he wasn't able to play. And so we're not going to stick an 18-year-old Ethan Wainieri next to Van Dyke and go and press him off the ball when Ethan Wainieri's game is an on-the-ball game. I wish, I think, Mikel thought it was going to be an off-the-ball game in the first phase. He wanted to manage Liverpool's fast start. Every time you go to Anfield, you've got to hold on to your teeth, they're going to blow them out of your mouth, right? And that's what generally happens. but Liverpool paid us the utmost respect and it turned out we had an on-the-ball game.

33:00Elliot:So because of that on-the-ball game we're looking around the pits saying oh we could have played Eze, we could have played Ethan because it was an on-the-ball game did we really maximise the on-the-ball period of this football match? We probably didn't because we never expected it. I don't think I've ever seen Liverpool pay us that much respect, ever. I can't even think back. Honestly, I can't think back to when that happened. So that caught us out a little bit. So the moments that we had were fleeting in the wide areas in particular so i think i said yesterday we had the wrong tires on at the wrong time but this is why i want to go back to instinct offensive instinct and urgency when it was there is the urgency there to be defined by what we do in attack rather than control now i know we have people down just give me just give me that kid with number seven days back and we're having a different conversation today i'm convinced of it so we were down but in in us in our hearts right in us just go into your deep soul now as you love your football club do we think like this when the moment was there and did we have the quality to execute and not very many moments in this game for either side that's why we can remember them all right now and we didn't quite have that we didn't we didn't recognize for when we had people rocking in the wide areas enough.

34:20Elliot:We didn't quite do it. And so we have those regrets without really having a major big moment in our minds. But we just feel, oh, Liverpool weren't quite at it. They respect us. Could we have done a bit more? And that's the feeling that we get. And we haven't really got a massive big chance to talk about. Do you see what I mean? But neither have they. I think understanding what these top six games are is very important there are games and there are top six games in fact it's not even top six anymore it could be a top four you know when it really where everybody knows who they are they respect each other and we just happen to be at that top table now yeah and we know we haven't been yet this is like a this is like a moment of graduation that anfield was quiet until about minute 60 absolutely quiet we haven't done this before in the context this game the result we have to wear it elliot we have to wear it you have to take it on the chin we're in a new stoke city we have to take it on the chin because until you win you have to take this rubbish you know and um but with within this i really feel there's a moment of graduation for this team but a team that was depleted and i can't wait to see us at a more uh fuller level particularly offensively that's where the mass where the major misses were right the ability to power up in those offensive areas would have been so significant in this game we were and we weren't able to one thing that that is kind of a low-key issue with this game and it's not worth big analysis but i'll at least mention it we took more out swinging corners this game than we took last season.

36:05And I think that's where we really missed Odegaard and Saka starting. We had eight corners in this game and they all seem to wind up going on the right hand side and Rice had to take them as outswingers. And not that the delivery was particularly bad, but we don't take outswinging corners. We never did last season either. We took them all outswinging from the right side in this game. And I think if we have one of our left footers to put in in swinging corners there, I do think Liverpool can be beaten off set pieces as we've seen. And we just didn't really get a chance to leverage those corner kicks as much as we could have.

36:32And I realize no one wants to hear about corner kicks because that's the very uh allegations we're trying to beat a little bit but those are chances to score a goal against liverpool i do think you made a really important point there clive too which is simply the extent to which there's frustration with our attacking output in this game is probably very strongly linked to what people have seen from liverpool prior to this but i think liverpool played a different game as well you know this is awesome

36:59Elliot:right look at manny knight did against us they played out of their skin these big clubs are not gonna let us rock up and run about them and go up and down the beach i'll be joking they're gonna bring it kirkheads and canate have been they've been shocking this for but they half turned up in this game we nearly broke their legs but they turned up right so um yeah they're not gonna allow this this is what big boy football is you know this is bournemouth i'm sorry i like bournemouth but they're gonna go they're gonna go toe for toe they're gonna they're gonna go they fancy themselves they're not gonna give us two goals let's be joking you know it's not gonna happen well and and so paul i mean look you can only talk about this game so long without getting to where i think the real issue is i don't know that i think the the strategy or tactics were wrong you want us to go to anfield and play basketball and if you lose 3-1 everyone could say at least had a go.

37:52I don't know that that's any better. But they had a midfielder playing right back. He was the man of the match. He played very well. He deserves a lot of credit. But he was not properly tested by our left winger. And that left winger makes a hell of a lot of money and has been given a very big contract to be a star player for Arsenal. And it's not going well for him right now. And that's Gabriel Martinelli. I think you can be critical without sticking the boot in. I don't think you have to be aggressive about the way you critique a player, but I think it is fair to say that he looks bereft of some of the quality that he once had.

38:27And in particular, the immediacy and decisiveness of what he does in the last third seems gone. The one that really just kicked off the game for me with the performance he had was in the 10th minute when we had a really good counterattack. He's got the chance to play in Yokoz. He doesn't play in Jokras, he runs it out for a goal kick. And there were a lot of shots of Gabriel Martinelli putting a thumb up to someone who had given him a good ball that he did nothing with. And it was getting pretty frustrating. So I think we have to at least discuss that performance. And it's pretty hard to watch.

39:01I thought it was a big issue for us in a part of the pitch where we should have had a major advantage. Yeah, it's quite a limitation. Again, if you're facing up against Arsenal and you got the whiteboard out the one area you're not super concerned about is that left hand side you can you can control what comes down our left hand side fairly easily these days um we'll remember the times we used to to marvel at martinelli's tricks and and savvy with the ball and you know tim was talking about uh how he played street football in brazil and martinet you know he had these different things he could do and he's become his game has become quite reductive he's gone from there was a time him and Saka were like going toe for toe as these young prodigies coming in and they were at two and a half d level and and Saka went on to 3d and now 4d and now smellorama and like on the other side you got Martinelli went from two and a half d to 2d he's really become one dimensional in how he's playing he's just kind of bereft of confidence belief i don't know what's going on there like i do think there's merit to the depends on who you're around to connect and stuff but when your game's really strong when you really believe in yourself you don't it doesn't have to be this left eight and this full back for you you know that wasn't what we said about him when he was really hitting it it's a vulnerability for us now and you know i'd like to think that maybe as a coming in um and maybe carrying that load for a while gives martinelli a little bit of a breather some new ideas as well about how to play the position and he can become more of a role player for us from the 60 60 70 minute on come on and and be a factor that the opposition hasn't seen for the first 70 minutes.

41:02But at the moment, it's like he's out of ideas and we're out of ideas to give him ideas. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, of those two wide players, Clive, I thought Nani looked great giving Karakas trouble. Maybe the final, final action could have been a little bit better to just pick someone out. But I thought he was really good and Karakas was struggling with him. Some great long distribution from Raya, by the way, that sent him in. But, you know, the Soboslai right back thing is where we needed to, I think, take advantage. And I also think because Jokeres likes to drift to the left channel, if Nelly is able to beat Soboslai more, you have a better chance to get Jokeres into the spaces where he can hurt you.

41:45And so in a way, Jokris' game suffers from the left-sided attacker not being able to create space and find ways to get the ball to him. It was a disappointing performance. I don't see any other way to look at it.

41:59Elliot:Yeah, it's a real shame. I think you look at our sort of four wide men, I'll leave Trossard out for now. You have Eze and Saka, they're like carrying driveless decision makers, like really, really clever creators that can go past people and stay past them. And maybe Martinelli and Noni are runners, a bit more aggressive sprinters, higher pace. And although Saka has all the tools, right? But he's a higher pace. And the difference between the two of them was clear to me. So Nonny just has clarity about his game. I can run fast. I'm taking my man on. I'm trying to beat him. My touches, I've got size 12 feet.

42:38Elliot:My touches can look a bit ugly. But I know where I'm going. I'm going to that green bit of space behind you, son. That's where I'm going. I'm going there now. I'm not overthinking it. I'm going to make you make a decision to come with me. And if I haven't got you on your heels, I'm going to knock it off, maybe go one, two, or knock it off and separate to receive it again so I can create the speed to go at you. Very, very clear. I'm going to put the ball into the box. If I can work that out after one and a half games, I've seen him, then our centre forward can work that out too, which means he'll start to move into areas knowing that ball's coming.

43:12Elliot:With Martinelli now, what we don't have is clarity. We don't know what he's going to do. He used to have complete clarity to his game. I'm the fastest player on the pitch. I'm going. By the way, I'm out in the left. I ain't staying here. I'm going to send a four to a penalty spot. That's where I'm going to score from. I'm not going to think about it. I'm just going to do it. So the instinct has gone. So now he's starting to think. And the slower he gets, the more you see his lack of technique. His skill is getting into your running quickly or off the ball running. So he's lost his game. He's starting to think about his game.

43:47Elliot:And he's now lost. And it's not, for me, as you get older, as a footballer, by the way, not in life, as you get older as a footballer. The number one thing that you get is you make more decisions correct under pressure. That's what comes to you. You can always spot a young player. He turns the wrong way. He takes the first touch in the incorrect direction. But he's learning. He's learning on the spot. He maybe attacks a man when he should knock it off. But Mark Lenny, he never had these problems when he first came. But now he's got these problems. so the more experience he's getting the worse his decision making is getting and that's where the patience becomes thin you see what i mean when and then then you see eze come on pull over his over his shoulder a bit heavy into the corner flag and he's just done his man off first touch just bang around the corner you're done you're out and then you see that it was no it was none of this have a touch have a touch turn back fall back it's like now i'm going i'm taking you and that surprise and the instinct is what makes us all, our eyebrows just went up.

44:58Elliot:Well, we should have started him. We should have started him, by the way. We should have started him. But you can see it, can't you? And there's a day in your career that's hard to shake off. We're quite constructive on this podcast and we've looked for reasons why Martinelli's struggled. Is it his left-back partner? Is it his midfield partner? Is it Jesus not being there? We've tried to be constructive. We need to see Frieda from the touchline. Is he being pinned there by the manager? We've tried to be constructive. And then a day comes along when you go, okay, enough already. This isn't happening.

45:33Elliot:And now the problem's with you, son, it's with you. And we've got somebody else who's ready to go. And he's really good. And there's a gap. And he's only played 20 minutes. It's a significant gap. And I think this is not a great day for the young man. And hopefully, He may find his confidence being more of a substitute, an impact player, that can be far more sprinty and stretchy late in games, or hopefully is controlled. And he may find his confidence in that phase of the game, which will lead him to be more regular style when we need him, because we've got 120 games to go. So we're going to need him.

46:11Elliot:So we've got to find his confidence in some way. Yeah, it is the case. I think big games like this are rarely won decisively anymore. You know, we're very good. When was the last time you saw Arsenal well beaten? I can't think of a time Arsenal have been well beaten. We're never well beaten, right? It's more a case of do we try enough to really beat down the opposition? But so I do think in these big cagey tactical games against the best sides, it is a moment of magic that decides it. Mikel Arteta said it in his post-match comments. I thought it was brilliant. He said it was a carefully, closely contested game where nobody was giving anything away, and it's either going to be won by a mistake or a moment of magic.

46:53And it was a moment of magic and they had it. I do agree that those tend to be the things that decide these games and we needed a moment of magic from somewhere. And I just think, unfortunately, our front three, Nani, who played very well, Jokras, who worked hard but didn't have much opportunity, and Martinelli, who had a chance to be that guy, isolated against a midfielder, 1v1 in a couple of situations, could not find the right final action. And we just did not have that moment of magic. And so a big question, I think, out of this game, more than the lineup for me, is responding to the game starting to turn on the hour mark and the timing of substitutions and our ability to really go for it.

47:33I think we should talk about that and the Okra's performance. The Max Dowman substitution is certainly an interesting talking point rather than maybe using Ethan. I think there's a couple of bits and pieces to tease out of the game that are really where it might have turned. So let's make sure that we tell you how to watch geolocked videos, and then we'll talk about all those topics, because I wouldn't want you to not know. Look, right now, you may be listening to this podcast having said, I missed all the really fun deadline day stuff because all the videos that I wanted to watch were geolocked.

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49:09Clive, the Yolkres thing is an interesting one because I think There's such meme and troll culture right now that it's hard to distinguish actual analysis from just trolling. If you look at this game, I mean, Eketike and Yocres are two of the big money striker signings that move. Now, obviously, an even bigger striker signing has gone to Liverpool. But it's kind of interesting, right? Because it's Sesko, it's Eketike, and Yocres. Those were the three. The three that came into the league. Which one should we get? Which is the right one? Well, Sesko is taking the 10th penalty against Grimsby Town, and he's behind Xerxe as the third option at striker.

49:42So it's not going great for him. Eketike's on two goals, as is Jokeres, but in this game, Eketike completed two passes, had 19 touches and one in the opposing penalty area. Jokeres completed four passes, had 17 touches and two in the opposition penalty area. They were well-martialed by good defenders in a game that was tactical and there wasn't a lot of space. I don't know that I need to overthink it because I don't know that there were things I would have liked him to do much better in this game, but maybe you see it differently.

50:12Elliot:yeah i think um no i don't i do think lil paul respected his speed though and they dropped off their their line i don't know i can almost hear scott checking their line was a bit deeper to me i checked out his positions and they looked a bit deeper and i think we helped us control the game because i think we could threaten their back line with speed i think high comes towards us a bit more I think that compresses us I think it makes a bit it makes a bit more of a collision game where I felt this was a bit more of a passive game because I think we had threat on the last nine with Nonny and Jokeres and they had to respect it they knew we spin down the sides they watched the Leeds game too they knew we spin down the left side they had to respect the speed and so they just dropped off a couple of yards and that has knock-on effects right so so I don't think they had a good on the ball game but I do think he's his game, I'll say good on the ball game, he was a game three with centre-forward, as you've highlighted earlier.

51:13Elliot:And I do think I have to retune my mind to recognise him this is a 20-touch guy maximum. Do you see what I mean? And he's not going to be creating too many things to other people. He's a player that we need to play towards and he needs to move a lot. What did surprise me, I watched the Leeds game, it surprised me that he covered the most kilometres of anybody in our team in that game. In this game, a week later, I'm thinking crikey mate I can't wait to get fit if you're doing that when you're not fit a week later I don't think he looked quite as fit that if that makes sense I didn't think I thought and I watched the Leeds game I've seen it live and I've seen it on camera and I didn't think he looked quite as fit you know so so yeah maybe that's just us working him before he gets up to fitness we see the benefit down the road but I felt he looked a little bit more stuck in his game and not so confident in the one-on-ones can I tell you Van Dijk are massive right 6-4, 6-5 they're massive I think you have one challenge where I thought oh you've got to sort of done a little bit there but the rest of the time it was just pretty passive stuff how can I buy a foul to give my team a rest how can I buy a foul to get us out of pitch he made a direct he made a dart in running to the box for a late I think Nonny crossed late on in the game I thought that's where you need to be that's a good positive sign I what I like about him is he's not a kid basically.

52:34Elliot:When I'm looking at Cesc going, he looks like a child. You know, learning about top level football, this guy needs to learn about the Premier League football, but he's a man. Right, so, but if Kai Havers was fit, he'd be the impact guy at the moment. He'd be the guy coming on to stretch teams late on that have been pushed about by Kai a little bit. That probably was the plan. Now we have to watch him get fit in front of us, learn in front of us starting all the big games our first six games are huge big grounds Man City, Newcastle, United, Liverpool big opponents Forest in there and Leeds is the weakest one which we've already seen of right so big opponents and we're going to have to watch it and learn so average day at the office and there'll be more of them if he doesn't score I can see us two in and throw in with him you know he scored a goal what great game he hasn't scored let's look at how many touches he had you know and that's how we're going to judge him which i think is a bit unfair but he's he's given us a structure that we need and with ese coming in that ability to stretch will allow ese saka and odegaard room to play and that could be something we haven't really seen before yeah i don't want to do the thing where we draw conclusions about players every performance, right?

53:59And just get pulled from pillar to post. I think we are still learning how to use Yoko Rashi. He's still learning the league. There's some adaptation time. I don't think this was a particularly good game for him. It wasn't a good game for Akitike. This was a cagey tactical game where the teams largely shut each other's threats down. You know, I mean, if this was your first time ever watching Mohamed Salah, you'd be like, oh, that guy's a star player. Really? Right. Well, yeah, Yeah, he is. He was just well handled. And by the way, credit to Cal Fiore, because I was worried about Cal Fiore starting.

54:25I was even thinking, should Timber move over? Timber, by the way, what a player he is. But Cal Fiore did all the running, did all the carrying, did all the going forward, did all the coming back. A little ropey at times. He had one moment on Salah where he took the ball off him with his back to Salah in the box. He had gotten turned completely around, but he recovered it. But by and large, if you can marshal Salah, you deserve credit. And I think he does. So that was good. But Paul, look, this is where I think if you want to get stuck in and have issues with the manager and the conservatism, it's just he waited too long in my mind.

55:01He just waited that little bit too long. He talked after the match. He said from 60 to 75 minutes, they had the better of it. And he was asked about that, why the game changed. He said, to be fair, he was very clear. He said, because this is Anfield. And at some point, it's going to change. You cannot dominate Anfield for 95 minutes. and it changed in various ways, especially because we didn't make the right decision when our keeper got the ball in their hands. We started to rush it, the turnovers. We didn't manage them so well, so we could never glide as a team. They're going to create those moments without really creating any situations of danger.

55:31I don't think that's wrong, but I think Mikel Moreno, whatever you think of him, and people know he's not really my cup of tea. I think he's an awkward fit as a midfielder. I thought he was actually fine in this game largely, but he's a one-hour player. He does not seem to have the engine for 90 minutes in the Premier League, and I thought he really started flagging around the hour mark. And I thought there was an opportunity at that point to get him off and Odegaard on if he was fit. If he wasn't, it's Ethan. I thought Eze could have come on sooner, and I thought the delay in that allowed Liverpool to just get on top of it.

56:02Now, that doesn't have anything to do with the goal they scored, which was an unbelievable free kick from nothing. But they started to get on top of this game, and I thought we had a chance to shift it back in our direction. So what did you think, Paul, of that period? why it changed and if we were late to react to it uh yeah i think that's where this game comes down to um i you know with the way you and i do our little notes while we're preparing or understanding the game so i'm watching the game and i make a note on 60 minutes and it's we've made them look ordinary so far then i put kind of little self-awareness up to 60 minutes that is and then And in my head, I'm like, do you write down everything you think, Paul?

56:46Should you write down, is this a fateful moment? You know, as soon as you write it, you're like, you're willing it into existence. Like, oh God. And like, I just had that sense that I'm going to come back to this comment. And shortly after that, they make the Curtis Jones change. And we don't. We decide to, we're like, it's still going well for us. We got control and we decide to give it another 10 minutes for whatever reason. And I just kind of like when Curtis Jones came on, I didn't think, oh, my God, we're in trouble. But in fact, we were in trouble as soon as Curtis Jones came on. I thought he started popping up in different areas.

57:27Maybe not because he's brilliant, but because he did something different. He is very good. He is good at popping up in the pockets. That's what he found. Good space, didn't he? Van Dyke had a couple of passes into him right through our midfield where Jones had just picked up really clever positions. And I think in part of it, we, that fatigue thing, not just on the attack, but in terms of our shape was still good, but popping up players who are now following different patterns moving and Sopaslai stopped being a fullback and started drifting into areas. And they went for it at that point. They played for a 60 minute game.

57:59I think we played for a 70 minute game where it was about control, right? They played, they had inordinate respect for us for 60 minutes. and then they're like now we go for it we had in respect and control for the game and the occasion i think more than them and we had i assume we had a plan to go for it on 70 minutes and it was 10 minutes too late by then the like it we say it comes down to a wonder goal but the wonder goal was not on its own they were starting to do things move us around the temperature had gone up in our end like stuff was going to happen one way or another and i think it wasn't just about sabas like twatting one in from like 50 yards out it was they were we we had problems at that point and we hadn't solved that problem and we weren't giving them problems so i do think it's not just about a wonder goal i think i think there's a 10 minutes in which we can look at ourselves and say we were not ready to go when they made their change clive what do you think yeah this is

59:05Elliot:this is the game so there are people upset with the manager today they're upset with whoever they want to be upset with to play a selection blah blah blah once i never worry about 11s you know that earlier but i do worry about the flow of the game the momentum of the game and that's what you're there for as a coach and at 60 minutes paul's right they put on coach but they changed so during the first phase of the game we had our three fours against them and they kept a plus one at the back. And that's why I think Jokovic is a really good player for us, because he forces people not to go man for man.

59:39Elliot:But they again gambled on our danger and our fatigue. And they went man for man at the back. And Slobosai moved into midfield. Canate moved out towards... And that tells you what they thought about him. So don't worry about this plus one anymore. We can take this lot later on in the game. And Curtis Jones went onto the right-hand side of the half midfield in almost like a V. And then just started popping into a fatiguing Zubamendi and a fatiguing Timber into those spaces. And suddenly the ball's going into midfielders that weren't there before. And they were turning around and playing the ball forward.

1:00:17Elliot:At no point did we let them turn around. and just play through us right at no point we were letting van dyke just pass the ball through why because marino was fatiguing supermendy was fatiguing tim was fatiguing and martinelli was not even a threat say just we'll just go one-on-one with him do you see what i mean and so they overload us a little bit didn't do anything with it but we all felt the change in temperature and then we all got the anfield scary vibes go through us and this is the moment where i just said i said yesterday get your keeper a sit down let's have a chat now if they've gone man for man at the back we've got to say they don't rate us anymore at the back there at that moment we have to bring on sa at that moment quickly yeah because we need to change them back into a plus one at the back we have to think we didn't have the pack we didn't have the the personnel to really up you know trossard obviously he's not ready other girls was barely ready we didn't have the ability can you imagine bringing on Amanda Weke late in this game do you see what I mean and as they start in they're not they're not doing that do you see what I mean they're not doing that we weren't able to do it and Saka on the other side we weren't able to do this so that was the moment when I felt we didn't quite read the game if anything Elliot sometimes I say to my coaches when I used to coach a lot more sometimes you lose a game before kickoff the moment when Saliba did the injury they made the decision to play him understandable it's anfield right got a 20 year old never been here before let's see if we can get the guy to start and straight away you lose that sub window and that means you now for me the way this game was going you have a decision to make at halftime do i bring on my shiny new signing that we've all got buying his shirt or do i hesitate and i felt we hesitated and i felt we We shouldn't have hesitated because that's a free window.

1:02:13Elliot:And then we maintain control and we give them things to think about. That was it for me. And so sometimes the unplanned Saliba omission, although Mosquera, it's not what he thought he was fantastic and what a player we have got. But that unplanned substitution forced us to hesitate and save our changes for late in games. Now, you've got to sit and you've got to react. Slott is good at reacting. we have to react quickly and see that plus one disappear they've gone man for man and we've got to get our we've got to get our best attacker on quick quick to make them think and start diagonal into the corners and get them running back towards their goal it didn't happen they slid the ball into our midfield Zubmendi's slightly wrong side he's half yard off for the first time in the game picks up a card gets a free kick and we're all sitting there thinking we should be alright but we weren't but you weren't and then of course we then react we turn into an attacking machine and we all walk away with regrets could we have been a bit more adventurous could we take the handbrake what what phrase you want to use you know what you choose your phrase you know but these are the regrets that happen in the football match right so um back to how the professionals saw it i thought that both managers managed the game really really well the discipline you don't get that mark for discipline that's not in sofa school but discipline of both teams shapewise was unbelievable we just missed out we didn't quite feel the momentum change for me and get our tired players off for me we should have used a halftime substitution window we should have been brave to do that we're not bringing on a kid to bring on Eze the Premier League best player for the last two months of last season we should have done it I understand him not starting but we should have done it at halftime and maybe a different game.

1:04:02And like Clive, can I add a bit on that? Because like, I would have been into, in principle, you know, yeah, I get a Martinelli for 70 minutes, or sorry, 60 minutes, and Eze for 30 minutes, because he's only, but when you saw how little we were getting at Martinelli, it was a no-risk swap, right? At 45 minutes, why not? Now, maybe you wanted a bit of defensive effort from Martinelli, and that's why you kept him on for a bit but by 60 minutes you could see his concentration was going a little bit yaka rest was blowing uh marino was blowing at 60 minutes there's no risk really no downside to saying okay as a uh somebody for like i don't know what you do about yaka resh my my wacky idea was hey switch martinelli he can still run in that direction he can still like switch martinelli to central i do think there's a new use case for martinelli as a late sub uh down the middle striker when we need a backup for yaka roush he's he's not out of options for us we can and like that's a simpler job in some senses it's like just worry about yourself just make runs he can do that so like i don't i don't look at uh michael and think why didn't you come up come up with my wacky idea, but I do think one, two, three, there are three players that needed to off at 60 minutes that were not going to cost you anything by making that move.

1:05:31Well, football's chess too. Am I going to make the move that requires them to respond or am I going to respond to what they're doing? And, you know, if you think about it, one of the reasons Martinelli probably stayed on is the Salah effect. The simple knowledge of Salah being on that side and the worry that you just have to have the running and the pace and the recovery and the work rate of Martinelli to help cover him. But you can change the strategy. You can bring on Eze, and suddenly Soboslai can't live with him. And now Slott has to make a decision. Do I have to get Soboslai off? Do I have to do something different to protect this midfielder playing right back?

1:06:10Because now he's being challenged with something he can't handle. And suddenly, maybe Soboslai isn't on to win the game with a free kick or they're dropping a player in to help. And now suddenly the whole game has shifted again because the move we made forced a response. I thought we were reactive rather than proactive in dictating how that last half of the game, quarter of the game was going to be played. And Mikel saw it. And if we've been reactive, but not 10 minutes later, right? If it's, oh, Curtis Jones is coming on. Our guys are ready to go. Yeah, yeah. Five games are moving fine. Yeah, or Sabaslay is drifting into midfield.

1:06:49They're feeling really comfortable with Martinelli. I need to do something about that. I need to give them something to think about to get Sabaslay out of midfield. They were starting to overload it. They had two players who were starting to be free in midfield, Jones and Sabaslay. And at that stage you say, we're not making them think, to Clive's point. So like, have the boys, maybe you don't want to bring them on the 60 minutes, but you have them running up and down the sidelines with their, you don't, you don't, it's a mutually assured destruction. You don't, you don't hit the first nuke, but when you see Jones taken off his top, your guys take off their top.

1:07:27When you see Jones coming on, you're ready to come on. If you wait two minutes, your guys are ready, right? If Jones comes on first, you're ready to go two, three minutes afterwards, which would have been And Mikel said, by the way, in his post-match comments, I think we elevated the game and the dominance to a point where they had to raise it. They did, especially from the 60th to the 78th minute, when then you could see that there were no margins in the game. When that happens, the game is going to be decided in two ways. One, with an individual error, and two, with a magic moment. Sobislai created a magic moment that was incredible.

1:08:00That has won the game, and that was the difference in nothing else. And while I agree with that appraisal, that 60 - to 78-minute moment, that was a period of the game for us to yep can i disagree with it yeah that's a bit uh after the fact analysis i'm sorry but i thought we were in trouble for those for the curtis jones minutes and yes they won it with a wonder goal but wasn't the only way they were going to win it give them say that that happened they raised the yellow the dominant they did but he said there was only one way they were going to win it a mistake or a wonder goal no they had what another basically 20 minutes, the best part, by the time they had all that extra time.

1:08:41I don't think we would have kept them out if we kept playing that way for another 20 minutes. That's what you mean. Yeah. There were goal-match scrambles. It was becoming more, we were going to have to respond, and I think we were slow to respond. I could see why he wanted a 60, 65-minute game, but when it was no longer that, he needed to make his move. Yep. Cut?

1:09:03Elliot:I just wanted to say this is a really good game to analyze it's a it's a really interesting game but you do need to analyze it and not just talk about what you think happened do you mean and what we thought we did it needs to be analyzed it's a it's a it's a high level game I don't think all the quality was there some of the first touches and passes were a little bit off I described it as nervy on the IR and I've got got a clip in the comments but really you could say I just felt two teams were desperate to not lose it a little bit, it felt like, but also play well, but not jump out of our holes and overpress.

1:09:42Elliot:It wasn't a hostile game, was it, pressing-wise? You know, we speak about it. I think it's much more a cautious game, you know, making sure we control certain areas of the pitch. For me, when you have those sort of games, you've just got to work out where the dopes are and you've got to play them. You've got to overfeed them, mate. feed them until they're flipping full up and i don't think we worked out that the wide area i don't think we were clear enough enough planning in wide areas i just don't think we were i think we're happy just to play and now we're going to get critiqued because we played you know um but really we controlled but actually mate over there you've got a midfielder and over the other side you've got two foot two kirkheads he's having a struggle up just how about simplify it and start you know start doing it a bit more that's the regrets i have really um we didn't quite feed where we had our strength we played in areas where our best players were but actually we wanted to get it out there into the wide areas and really really get them running backwards paul quickly yeah look uh had we had a joined up attack if michael had gone into this game thinking he had a joined up attack where but we had maduaki who's played 10 minutes for us on the right he looked very bright but 10 minutes on the right before this game Martinelli not in form Jokeres who still looks pretty heavy on his legs Mikel Marino who can do a job but is not an attacking uh left left or right eight and you have Declan Rice is going to have to stay back a bit because Califiori is going to like his four players up front were not a joined up attack and he knew that.

1:11:19So he didn't go gangbusters at Anfield. Had he got a joined up attack that he's seen in the last couple of games and he knows he's ready to go, I think we go for it. So I know there are people listening to this, hearing our critique saying, that's why you got to go for it. No, you got to look at what you got. We had a strong defense, a strong lower midfield, and a non-joined up attack. But when you get to six or 70 minutes, that doesn't matter so much. it's starting to become a bit more basketball we were sitting deep anyway we got the game maybe we wanted the counter-attack game so bring on your counter-attack player and players Clive?

1:12:00Elliot:No, it's really good Paul and I think another thing we did really well in the game we dropped Rice and Zubman into the back line to create overloads there for us so that gave us control Dropping in and out alternately that bit was really good we really controlled that bit of it the first time I saw that pause was to Bilbao Friendly and I saw it I went oh my gosh this is great double pivot Rice is doing the old Shaka thing into left back and Califuri's on I'm thinking oh man this is wonderful and they're they're worried about Califuri so what did they do they went man for man and they gambled but it's just frustrating we did a lot of things right and no one's going to remember it I'll tell you what the coaches remember it and the analysts out there are going to get their analyst pieces out the tactical pieces out they're going to remember it because they knew what they watched.

1:12:49Elliot:So don't worry about what Sky say. Don't worry about it, mate. It's rubbish. This is what's upsetting, right? There was a time, we beat Liverpool a few years back. Maybe it was during COVID. It was early on in Mikel being here. We beat Liverpool. And they asked him about it. He said, we're miles behind him. We're miles off it. We have a long way to go to catch up. That was after a win because we basically turtle-shelled the whole game, got battered and hit them on the couch. We made two mistakes. Yeah. Yeah, and where we are now, we can tactically and talent-wise compete on any ground with any team.

1:13:23The shame of it is that this isn't being described as a really interesting chess match tactically between two teams that played incredibly elite tactical football. And one single moment of brilliance decided it between teams that were able to nullify each other through their excellent quality. Because you know what? Being able to nullify Arsenal, and this is what Slott said. Neither Arsenal nor Liverpool created the number of chances they're used to creating because the other team played so well. Bravo, Arna. Bravo. Great comment. You're right. This was excellent football played between two excellent teams.

1:13:56This was big boy football. Yes. And to your point, Paul, yeah. You know what? There's a world where Mikel Arteta can start Bakaio Saka, Martin Odegaard, and Kai Havertz, and he plays it a little differently. Right? There's a world where he gets to do that because there was a moment of brilliance that decided this game. You know who usually delivers our moment of brilliance? It's that guy, Bakayosaka, who's got a hamstring injury. And I'm not using it as an excuse. I'm saying these games, when they're this tight and this tactical, it takes something out of the top drawer. And maybe the frustration on the subs is Martinelli wasn't going to give you something out of the top drawer in this game.

1:14:31That much was clear. But you know who could have? Eze. And I want to touch on his contribution. We got two more things we got to touch on. His contribution, the late Max Downman sub. but quickly uh clive any any critique of raya on their goal i mean when it goes in off the post i'm inclined to just you know tip your cap to some side i love it he should have stood over that side clive that's what he should have done it's just today you should have guessed where the

1:14:56Elliot:ball was going just stood in that corner right so um yeah joe hart did a great analysis on match today too last night and that's all you need to that's all you need to see just go find that i can't beat it he's that's rare he's fast he's quick he had to make sure he could see the ball once he could see the ball he he gambled a bit he even gambled outside and he still couldn't get it mate in off the post what do you do what do you do um it was a very good i saw some people critiquing his height which he has no control over that i can speak from experience but i will say you know when he made himself really tall salah got to the byline once and tried to chip a toe poke a cross and raya got really big to get a hand up and and collect it so you know he can get big he can height isn't almost nothing to do unless you're some kind of donnarumma freak with the wingspan of an african court got beaten twice by free kicks and he's yeah 17 feet tall so yeah for the like height is okay if you're talking about claiming crosses which he's exceptionally good at anyway so he's got the leap of a cat it's not about height el gato they call him okay i do Let's move on to something more interesting.

1:16:05um clad the more interesting thing to me is i thought this was a very very exciting first look at ebrecha as a and i know people will focus on him going down instead of shooting fine but i i mean right off the bat what does he do he gets the ball out wide and he slides the ball across the top of the box to odegaard which almost leads to either odegaard could probably take a shot there or if Jokras is on his toes, maybe he can get to the next ball that's played. That's a pass that we just don't play. That's a ball that we don't play from the left hand side. Then he has to chase a ball to the corner flag.

1:16:47It's poorly hit. What does he do? He beats his man dead, right? Just touches past, I think it was Sobislai, and beats him to the byline. He gets inside another time, goes down, maybe shouldn't have. Okay, fine. I thought it was really really exciting i wish we had seen more of it and i think anybody who was saying he's not a left winger he's not going to play on the left i you know i'm sorry i think he can do just fine there so your thoughts on on that cameo yeah yeah you've said it all really um

1:17:15Elliot:i think uh well that's only three things he did right so what else can i say right so i think um i think yeah i love the past cross here to the area because we just don't play it and it's just brilliant and he's a fantastic football player that's ready to play this level of football and i felt for him a little bit actually you see when the players arrived he looks a little bit solemn do you know i mean like and i was trying i was trying to guess who was who was starting and yeah, I felt for him. I'd like to see him start. I sort of understand the caution, but then I don't because this is a message maybe to Mikel.

1:17:59Elliot:You've built this great house. You've built it. You have these tools. Mate, don't be afraid, mate. These boys can play. This is game three. If he gets run about a bit and we can't defend certain spaces, then we learn right but what could we have done in attack and my view was on those the two decisions to make just go one defensive one attacking you know and uh rather than two more defensive to see what i mean and um i think the game plan was what paul said earlier i think it was to maybe take the last 20 minutes and add our attackers and go and take it but we did bring them on but you didn't quite make it so um i don't think we changed enough because we were fatiguing other areas and um and so we left the sub on the table and um that's a bit of a shame right because um ethan and miles was probably sitting there today probably spewing a little bit thinking i'd like to go on that pitch it's a bad day for the 80 year olds because one or both of them could have maybe been used right so um so yeah sa just opens it all up and Elliot, I wonder if he is the missing player.

1:19:08Elliot:I've just seen Tim release a story about a new player coming in the women's team as we are recording. And there was a player that came into the women's team last year called Mariana Caldenti, and she changed the whole team with her creativity on what she could do. And I'm wondering if Eze is going to be that for us, because he has got the stuff, mate. He understands the game. He understands how manipulate people, drift past people, drifting to areas where they don't want you to be. He goes into that area. What I found about Martini recently, he goes into the area where the defenders want you to go.

1:19:43Elliot:Whereas Eze goes into spaces where the defenders don't want you to go. And I think that's really important. That's a complete difference. A complete difference in IQ and understanding of the offensive side of the game. I cannot wait to see him embedded in this team. I cannot wait to see him with Saka in the same team. We've got some great days ahead. It doesn't feel like it right now. but he will be and he's going to be brilliant. Yeah. Yeah, I'm so excited by him. I know people are frustrated he didn't shoot when he got in that ball, kind of ricochets, he turns, he gets in the box. I've watched it a hundred times.

1:20:17It's on his right foot. I feel like he chooses to go down instead of shooting. It's not what I want to see. It's what I do see. I think he's a little unsettled by the contact. I don't mean it as a penalty. I'm not saying it's a penalty. I'm just saying I think the contact. Gomez pulled him a bit.

1:20:32Elliot:I think he felt it was probably bigger, so he made the decision. Well, actually, stay on your feet and don't have a shot. Yeah. Yeah. Look, it's a shame. And, I mean, he should shoot there. Like, what do you want me to say? But, Paul, I mean, I think still just the difference in his ability to bring some technical quality to that position and create problems for Liverpool that weren't there before was very encouraging. Are you frustrated by that moment where he doesn't shoot? What do you think of the overall performance? I was a bit frustrated because like it was there. It was right there. He'd done the thing.

1:21:09He was through. You're there, go for it. You know? So it does like, maybe this is a bit narrative-y, but it kind of makes me think I get why he didn't start, right? I don't get why he didn't come on at 45 minutes or 60 minutes, but like it would have actually given him a little time to settle before the big moment. Okay, things play out differently. if they start differently. But like, it was a big day for him and a big occasion and a big moment. I can see why the manager starts the team he started. I totally get it. By 45 minutes or 60 minutes, that's where I diverge with Mikel's approach. But I can see why, given that your ace card is Calafiore coming into midfield and causing chaos.

1:21:59Maybe it didn't happen as often as he wanted it to happen. why you would have Martinelli, why you would have Rice doing what they did in that game to provide some cover, to provide the legs. Martinelli knows the drill. Eze doesn't. I get why you play the first 45 minutes or 60 minutes like that. We saw from Eze what he can give in the attacking end, but he wasn't asked to do 70 minutes of covering for Calafiore, who I thought would have more trouble than he had. You know, again, it's all after the facts. Califiori did really well he did a lot better than I thought he was going to do he had Rice there, he had Martinelli there maybe that's, you know what might it have been like because what's Liverpool's game Van Dijk to Salah and we managed to stop that and how did we manage to stop that Mikel Marino worked his socks off he knew the plan, he was disciplined Rice, Martinelli to some degree know the formula and we kept them kind of quiet So I get it.

1:22:59I get the SA thing, why he came on later. He should have just come on earlier. But maybe he showed the occasion and the move and the nerves in that moment. Because there's one thing you do, you go at them. He anticipated the penalty more than the pullback that he got. And it was the easy way out, right? The easy way is, oh, I got a penalty. And he just wasn't quite mentally. I think he wasn't quite mentally there for the occasion at that moment. but he could have done more time on the pitch. It was right when he came on. Yeah, I mean, it was one of the first things. I think it was like 63 minutes or something like that.

1:23:35So he would have just still been coming up to speed with the game. I will say that there was a penalty shout late for a handball on Sobosly, and I'm just going to say this as plainly as I can. I don't want that to be a penalty. I don't want games decided by something like that. Having said it, I don't know what a handball penalty is anymore, and I've seen them given, and I've seen terrible decisions all weekend from VAR and from BGML, I'm fine with that not being a penalty. I think it would have been a pretty damn jammy way to get points. I would have taken them. I would have bitten your hand off for him.

1:24:05And I would have think that a draw is a fair result, but that's not the way to get it. The thing that I find a little bit odd was the Dowman for Nani Maduike sub. And look, we can't all be sitting here screaming for Max Dowman to have opportunities. And then Max Dowman gets an opportunity. We say, no, not like that, but not like that. And I sort of wonder, and I think I said this on the IR, their young 16-year-old won them the game at Newcastle just six days earlier. And I wonder if Mikel was sort of thinking, well, they can bring on a 16-year-old to win it late. I can bring on a 15-year-old to win it late.

1:24:38And it's not that Max was bad per se. That's not really my point. My point is that just feels like a hell of a Hail Mary when you have an older player who I think is more prepared for that moment in Ethan if you feel you need to make a change. but i also sort of think like for like there isn't even necessarily the move you could bring on ethan for for zuby and drop rice back you know you there are things you can do i just don't think max for nani on 89 minutes is is one that i totally understood yeah we we were one down and

1:25:11Elliot:everything after that is on the table right so yeah it comes back to we messed up pre-game right so and we definitely messed up at halftime we would have created a better decision for us late in game we made them a decisive decision at halftime so and so i must admit i don't i'm not a fan of this ethan only backs up oligar thing i don't want that for him i want to be focusing on versatility this is football and things change very very quickly if you become that one trick pony what happens if they find a better pony then you're off do you know what I mean focus on being versatile focus on being a wide man left right focus on being a left day a right eight just make sure you can be anything but a center forward you know and because I think you should have come on in this game I was more impressed than some of you guys about the league performance I thought he I thought he did really really well based on other performances that he's played in that interior role.

1:26:10Elliot:And the thing for me was he improved so much off the ball in that game. We know he can do on the ball, he's spectacular. But off the ball, he's not been present in his first season. But he started to look like that against Leeds. And so getting back to the wide areas and see if he can get some sprinting speed going against them and some shooting opportunities. Because we have a track record of seeing him score nine goals in senior football. And so I would be upset if I was him today. but if he's asked to be that interior player and we started with one then our skipper comes on he doesn't play so we don't know everything in this story but i'm thinking mate i'd have to i'd have to but hey look first world problems yeah yeah i mean and to your point it's a roll of the dice at that point i just think you need a goal and bring on max to need a goal isn't the worst thing in the world but max for nani like for like there and that like for like i don't know it it it felt a little neither one thing nor the other to me paul your thoughts um like i've criticized michael quite a lot in terms of what happened after 60 minutes i feel like i get why the max damon thing he hasn't seen a lot in the attack this uh so far which is super joined up you know my feeling on the Leeds thing was when we started looking and really joined up was when there was a lot of space on the pitch because Leeds were a deflated balloon but the one thing he's seen all preseason and season so far is Max Daman does things with 10 or 15 minutes to go so I get why you'd give that a shot that's part of a joined up attack and everybody knows what Daman's going to try to do on our side of the ball um i had no problem with like it was a gamble he what happened was obviously one of the options one of the possibilities which is he comes on and doesn't really move the needle but he could absolutely have uh had an impact that changed the game so i like i don't have a problem with it like i i understand the nuenari discussion but i've i have not seen nuenari do anything in recent times that make me think he's the guy who's going to get you the goal or get a goal and i've seen it three four five times recently with max downman so i kind of get why as a manager you're like i'll give him 10 minutes see yes the liverpool thing might be you know the the the rio kid from liverpool might be in his mind but that's not a bad thing it's it's one more piece of evidence along with the five times Max Downman did something for Arsenal.

1:28:55So it's a big thing to put on a kid, but he didn't give him 30 minutes or 45 minutes. I don't think it's going to hurt Max. I think it's a great bit of experience for him. He got 10 minutes to try and move the needle. He learned some stuff. It didn't have the impact we were looking for. So I liked it. okay that's a fair perspective you know as as a final point here this is not a death blow to us being able to win the title i mean it just isn't if you look at teams winning away to the holders winning away at anfield like it just doesn't happen much as i mentioned pep has won there once ever and he won six titles in a row whatever the heck it was um i think the accusations of conservatism are predicated on priors rather than watching the game.

1:29:47Conservatism to me, again, is parking the bus. It's sitting deep. It's playing defensive. When you have 50 % of the ball, when your heat maps for your players are in the opposition half, when you do have some control of the ball, I don't think that's particularly conservative. Again, I'm not saying we were expansive. I don't think Liverpool were either. It takes two to create a cagey tactical match and both participated in that match. When Liverpool have less than half an expected goal, when they have fewer than 10 shots, right? When they have a handful of touches in the opposition box at most, they're contributing to what was a very tactical game that was not, it was not an expansive game of football.

1:30:25It just wasn't. And neither team wanted to let it become that. And so it never did. Yeah, so Clive, I mean, that's really it. I think it took two to tango. We got the game that both clubs wanted. And I think Slott said it best. Eight times out of 10, it ends a draw. the other two times it ends one by the other one of the other teams and that that's the game we got and unfortunately the moment of brilliance came from them yeah slot is a pleasure to listen to

1:30:46Elliot:actually i think he assesses games really well i think he assesses his team really well even what he's done the players he's lost in this window and he'll obviously getting players in i think he's a really good analyst of the game but i do think some of the analysts i'm now seeing analyze him in this game make one change is being over indexed because they scored a free kick you know and i i think honestly we we have to be better than this you know that's all it did create a momentum but in the end it didn't create a situation where they had multiple chances and multiple touches in the box they didn't they had one offside goal from where we didn't quite get to them on time and that was caused from that change but things that we did in this game that forced them to to go back into their shell were just as significant, but they're not important because we haven't got a league trophy in our cabinet and we didn't win this game.

1:31:39Elliot:So we have to wear it. And so we're not the tactical geniuses. They are. We're the ones that are Stoke City, the billion pound Stoke City. That's who we are. They just score set pieces. And we have to wear it until we go to Newcastle and win and beat Man City and win and just win football matches. You know, don't over-index this in your mind. just win football matches and the narrative will come around and the day when saka and as they score in the same game suddenly we'll be 1982 brazil we just have to wait until our attackers are back fit and we can see what we can do yeah i mean given the players that were available to michael the quote-unquote more attacking less conservative choice would have been, instead of playing one winger, play a different winger?

1:32:28Then it would have been expansive. Then it would have been aggressive. I mean, you're splitting hairs. I think Mikel Arteta has to look at this team and realize it's a very, very, very good team that's very, very hard to beat. But if he wants to go that next step and win these big things, he's just going to have to turn the dial that ever bit slightly towards taking some risk that he may feel uncomfortable taking to get extra goals. I don't think you want to be in situations where every big game is a 0.5 XG to 0.5 XG game at the margins and you hope the margins tilt your way because football is crazy.

1:33:05And sometimes 0.5 XG to 0.5 XG ends three nil. You know what I mean? Sometimes it doesn't. I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've seen Manchester City have seven XG and Spurs have 0.1 and Spurs have taken all three points. So it's just, you know, you have to tilt that dial a little more attacking. But overall, good game, two good teams. They got the moment and it's completely changed how everybody analyzes it. For me, I still see it as these two teams going down to the wire, contesting the title. Liverpool have put themselves in a very, very good position with the final bit of business they've done.

1:33:38But I'll end on this. there's just no world where we're going to win a title or a Champions League if we are consistently playing without Gabriel Mart that's not the one without Bakayo Saka or William Saliba or Martin Odegaard or Kai Havertz all season long like we're going to have to get fit we're going to have to have Bakayo Saka lining up on the right for us you can't replace that talent you can't replace Bakayo Saka you can't replace William Saliba but Mascara was sensational. But again, if we're going to achieve anything, that's got to get solved. So let's hope after the international break, that does, because I don't want to see any more big games where we're analyzing what we saw on the pitch, but in the back of our mind, wondering what we might've seen had the star talent been out there.

1:34:28So I just want that to stop. So there'll be a lot more chance to analyze this. We're going to have the special guest pod on Ebrecha as a tomorrow. History pods, one club pod, and lots of stuff all throughout the interl. So if you want to come join us for that, please do. Otherwise, just join us here. We're struggling to, I think, make more of a game that maybe is less of a game. You know what I mean? So let's not do that too much. Paul, I really appreciate your thoughts on this. Thanks for being here. Clive, thanks, man.

1:34:58Elliot:Thank you very much. Yeah, we'll definitely... I am just... I gotta be honest. I'm still very, very excited about this season. I still think it's going to be a lot of fun And we still have a lot of quality. I love the squad we have. I'm not going to get too down about this particular result. I'm still really excited. And we've got some big games on the other side of the Interlal too. So it'll be very interesting. All right. We'll leave it there. My name is Alex Smith. Thanks so much. We love you. And we will talk to you after Arsenal 10. We're still.

1:36:09We'll see you next time. cost may apply and final cost varies by insurance plan. For safety information about GLP-1 medications, including boxed warning, go to roe.co slash safetyRx only.