Arsenal Outclass Chelsea

32:19Look, anytime a team gets a chance, there is a tendency to want to analyze what you did wrong to allow it. I think it is worth reminding us that this was a, whatever, 2.3 or 2.2 to 0.35 XG game. That we had four big chances. They had zero. The reason I bring that up is Neto hit the bar. Not the bar. Pardon me. The post. But it's a good move, but it's not a clear chance. The outside of the post, too. Yeah, outside of the post, yeah. That shouldn't be countered with hitting the post. It hit the outside of the post. Well, it's a shot off target. Stavow obviously hit a ball really nicely that Raya does a brilliant job saving.

32:57We overlook Raya at our peril. But again, it's a half chance. Morgan Rodgers is not even a half chance. It's like a quarter shot. It's on the volley outside of the box, and he just finds a space. And to be fair, maybe having just praised Raya, could he get down to that? I don't know. I think he's not expecting it. So I don't think that they were as effective in attack as we think. I think we allowed them to have some exciting moves without really letting them create big chances. And where I think we are unique in the world, when we are cut open a bit, we flow back into our defensive shape with an urgency and a relentlessness that is pure Mikel Arteta ethos there.

33:32But like for their goal, I think what we didn't do well is the thing that frustrated me throughout the game. If I had to pick on something, Tim, I don't think we competed well enough for second balls. I think we lost the first ball and they got on the second ball better than we did. And that is an area where I think we can improve in an area I expect us to be better given the strength we have. Obviously for theirs, we lose the first header. Rice has a bad header. Odegaard doesn't compete well for his header. And then that's still a wonderful goal from a volley, but it's because we lose those first balls.

34:06So your thoughts on that, but also did you identify not getting the second balls as an issue in this game or am I sort of on my own there? A little bit, yeah. I think there's a couple of things there. I think that's kind of what Chelsea are all about. And when they get Caicedo back in particular, I think that's what they're going to be all about. They're going to be heavily transitional. That is a classic counter-attacking front three. I think one of the big reasons we kind of little brother them here again is just their midfield. If that was Enzo Caicedo, you know, I'm not saying we wouldn't have beaten them, but that's a very different prospect.

34:46I think they're going to be all about that this season. I don't think they're going to control many games. Their first two games were 4-3 and 3-2. And I think that tells you a lot about where they are at the moment. But I do think they're going to be good at that. They're going to leave that front three up. And that's the way they're going to go for the time being, certainly. And that's why I'm a little bit, I've got mixed feelings about the kind of, you know, like the XG. Like you say, they're kind of long shots. But I also kind of think that Chelsea are one of the teams in the league who are going to do that very well, quite a lot.

35:23Because like the Simon Morgan Rodgers, who's the best long shooter in the league. Cole Palmer, when he gets time and space on that left foot, he's very good at that. Caicedo himself can hit them in fact Enzo was very good they they're kind of set up for that I think they what they're going to want is rapid counter-attacks that are done in three four touches and quite often that's going to mean shooting from the edge of the box um in terms of so so on one on one hand yeah we restricted them to long range efforts but the other hand I kind of think they're comfortable taking long range efforts in terms of the second ball thing yeah definitely and I think I think a lot of that is probably just about personnel.

36:04If you take out Miles and put in Bruno, I think that's probably less of a problem. If you take out Miles and put in Zubimendi or Marino, like our second ball guys, other than Rice, were kind of on the bench and we made that calculation because of what Miles brings you on the ball. I think he showed that several times in this game. Wonderful turn on the edge of his own area where we played some beautiful one-touch football. like it's very you know some players you get some stuff when you play them and you lose some stuff that's miles right pirouetting on the edge of his own box getting us up the pitch in three passes taking people on committing people but you're probably not going to get him winning loads of second balls but if you play merino or zippemendi if that's what you want to do you want to prioritize those actions you play those guys and you don't have a problem so i i do think there's an element of that and it's interesting i i actually i've gone back and watched it subsequently for the first hour or so i was on my way back from the women's game i listened to the commentary on arsenal.com is listening to adrian clark they had an interesting discussion at half time about what should arsenal do here because in one respect this game state kind of suits chelsea it's a bit of a basketball game but on the other hand actually arsenal are creating quite a lot still and they still look quite good, but perhaps the back door's slightly more open than it usually is with Arsenal.

37:31And they were talking about like, so what do Arsenal do here? Do they opt for a bit more control or do they decide, do you know what? We're playing basketball here and we're creating more than you, but maybe risk that Chelsea get another one of those Morgan Rodgers moments. But I think the early goal in the second half kind of sorted that out and it put the game into a different game state. But in short, yes, I did notice that. But I also think it was probably factored in because of some of the selection decisions we made. Yeah, look, there was a lot of narrative last season, I think, trying to criticize how we played, our football, put us down as champions.

38:12I think some of that can be tied back to two things. One, we finished the season on a bit of a rough run because we just had very few of our best players available. So we played some games that were not a great watch and where we didn't play fantastic. The other thing is we didn't have a great track record in the big games last season. And some of the big games last season were a tough watch. The Liverpool games come to mind. Very low incident games. I do think that this being the lone game on Sunday when it was played after United hilariously drew, thanks to Ainsley Maitland-Niles. It was a very Arsenal start to the day, wasn't it, by the way, with Ainsley Maitland-Niles just calmly stepping onto a ball 20 yards out and finding the corner to take a point against United.

38:56You get the idea. But I think the fact that the entire world was watching this game with a bit of curiosity about Chelsea and saw a dynamic, fun game, an enjoyable, entertaining game, a game where Arsenal contributed to that entertainment level tremendously, and then that Arsenal won it, I think, quite comprehensively in the end, at least in terms of who deserved the three points, who was the deserved winner. I think that will really also help with how we're talked about to anyone who cares about that. But I think it's nice to perform in that way on a big stage when everybody is watching. So that is something.

39:31We had some really interesting moments. Obviously, we had the goal that was disallowed, came from a set piece routine. We had a couple of free kicks that were really good. We had the one where Cal Fiore came to the near post and tried to get his foot on it and couldn't quite get it across. But in that disallowed goal, you know, Kansa was offside. But in one of the set piece routines, Gabby winds up on the floor, tries to bundle the ball in, instead bundles Emi's head. I don't have a problem with it personally. Chelsea fans do. I'm trying to think about this reasonably. On the one hand, I think Gabby is just trying to scramble a ball.

40:07But the positioning of his body is such that his foot kind of goes up instead of being able to go straight. It's impossible. if you try i hate when people do this it's the same with strikers who miss chances right people are just incapable of putting themselves in the position that the individual's in at the time if you put yourself on the floor right and you stick a ball right next to your ankle and say take a swing at it your foot goes up it is impossible to to avoid it's like he's clearly swiping at the ball like and it's not like it's up in the air either so you can't say it's a high boot it's like it's it's ridiculous and it's just idiots on the internet doing stuff for engagement it's not like going over the ball with the tackle where you're in control of where you're putting your foot this is the mechanics of how the body works when you're laying on your side and you try to kick forward he does wind up kicking the keeper in the head then to be fair at the end of the swing there's emmy martinez's stupid face yeah like we're all just human that see that's what i was going to say i think if you put anyone in that position tim this is where i thought you were going and you lay on your side and emmy martinez is in front of you you're going to kick him in the face so i don't see how you can it's not even a foul it did paul do you have any sympathy for people want it like trying to put the shoe on the other foot or the shoe on another face i don't think that's going to help you're still going to want to kick him in the head is is there any argument in your mind for that being a red card or you know anything of the nature well here's what i'd say uh you get these situations throughout a season and there are seasons there are seasons where we're just unlucky and calls go against us or any time they can give us a red card they do and for like this is our second season now where there's a sense of i would say champion we're a champion or a champion in waiting there's a general sense of control that then comes to these high leverage moments and referees do not expect to be giving us red cards and therefore they are not thinking about giving us red cards do i think we could have got a red card after they started reviewing this in the var box and they're looking at the thing oh you slow it down and you get the ripples of skin on emmy's face in super slow motion ah it's an assault it's not just a red card it's a criminal action yeah yeah so like you can absolutely get a red card off this if that's the if that's your mindset but if that's what if that's the outcome you want to engineer it too yeah or if that's how you see arsenal this chaos machine where they're out of control and they're they got a chip on their shoulder and they don't control them like from two three seasons ago you know we're overly emotional this that and the other and now we're just footballers playing football in football situations like champions and therefore these things are viewed differently and we have earned that right to be viewed as serious footballers and gabrielle to be taken in that moment as just trying to do what a footballer would do in that situation not some hothead yeah all right look i i want to get to the kai goal and the odegaard goal and and kai and odegaard in particular i think we we can go even deeper on on their performance um i i i love these players and I think you know one of the things well we'll get to in a minute because I think Mikel said some interesting stuff too that might have might have flown a little under the radar I'm going to say something that people are going to be outraged by I don't think the refereeing has massively improved this season I think we we've just seen consecutive relatively poor referee games both in the Villa game in this game I am a huge fan though of the higher threshold for penalties and interventions by referees.

43:52I think non-calls damage games less than wrong calls when it comes to red cards and penalties. If you give a penalty, it's an 85 % chance at a goal. You should really be sure it's deserved. If you give a red card, it destroys the contest. You should really be sure it's deserved. And because I don't think the standard of refereeing is very high, I think having a higher bar for them destroying the game is good. And in general, I think that has been That's a good line of logic If your referees are crap The rule should be Generally don't make calls Mike Dean saw before anybody else Yeah, neuter them If they're crap, neuter them Mike Dean knew he was crap That's why he didn't make any decisions For 20 minutes On the countdown tomorrow We will be talking about Mike Dean A little bit And his fun and games With being a referee In the Premier League I don't even know where to begin With that absolute See you next Tuesday Let's do this you wouldn't want to hear about Kai and Odegaard if you didn't hear about a brand.

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47:59Do it now. Tim, is that enough of that? Indeed. Another. Tim, I think Emi Martinez could probably do better for Kai's goal, but I don't think he thinks it's coming. But to be fair, Kai had a wonderfully involved game. He and Odegaard have such a relationship. There were times it didn't work. For example, when Kai decides to try to backheel it to Odegaard in the box when just like shoot and score, you're standing in the box. There's the dummy, which is sensational. He had that little dragged flick to Saka when Saka took the beautiful shot that Emi blocked, and he has the goal. it's an all-around game he's involved in so much we did well and I think when you don't win titles people focus on the shortcomings of your players you know what I mean so when we got to 89 points and 91 goals and Kai was stunning from January to May people focused on the chances he missed because we didn't win the title now that we are champions I think there's a lightness and ability to really see what we have in him I thought it was brilliant that there was there were talking points yesterday from the pundit class about how did Chelsea let this player go?

49:03They weren't talking like that before, were they? But we really see what we missed last season. He's off to a fantastic start. And Kai Havertz allows us to play with all the faces. I love that we showed both faces, the defensive face and the flowing, expansive attacking face. And Kai, for me, just the intelligence, the movement, the quality is finally, I think, getting some of the recognition it deserves. Yeah, absolutely. I think I said on an episode either just before the season or maybe after the Coventry game, I'm very high on Kai. Don't get high on your own. Let's not go there. Yeah, get high on your own Kai.

49:37Sure. But I think what we're seeing is, and particularly probably since we did buy, you know, the other striker, right? And my intention is not to make it like a culture war between, you know, the two strikers or whatever. but like we we kind of bought the goal scorer um which everyone i think justifiably said we needed i do think we need that player in the squad but i think that's the operative phrase isn't it we need that player in the squad in the team we need kai havertz one way or another i think he's one of our best and most important players and the thing that's so unique about him i think i said on um you know on that previous episode he's one of the only players i've ever seen who could have played for peps barcelona and could have played for the crazy gang in the 80s he's just got this beautiful marriage of like being technically really really good he's got those almost like and i think in a much better way almost like giroud-esque in that he's got those lovely soft feet around the box for the flicks and the flick around the corner and the dummy and the drag back and all of that and technically he can rondo with the other guys.

50:51But when you need to, and actually we didn't end up doing this to him, we did this to Jokras when he came on instead, but if you need to, you can whack the ball up to him as well and he'll hold it and he'll win headers. And it's very, very rare that you get a marriage of those two things in one striker, and I really think he's a fabulous all-around striker. and at the moment as well he's kind of you know your your kind of reservation about him would be yeah but how many goals does he score as the main striker in the team and actually he's scoring at a really really impressive rate at the moment as well and he's another one and I know Arteta said this afterwards as well that Saka, Odegaard, Havertz I mean it's all self-explanatory and stuff we've talked about they've all got something to prove this year because like we kind of won the title and but they weren't they weren't as big like when you imagine that first Arsenal title yeah when you imagine that first Arsenal title under Arteta and if I told you it was like those guys were going to be injured for a lot of the season you kind of wouldn't believe it and and But also, in the case of Havertz and Odegaard, they're in the contract year.

52:07They're both kind of playing for their next contract at the moment. And I think that's significant as well. But I just think, I've always said Havertz just has to be in this team one way or another. And for me, I think it's become crystal clear that he's our striker and he should be our striker. and actually he doesn't really play, he can play like a traditional striker but he's up on the right a lot in this game. He was really peeling into that right channel a lot. Yeah, and I'm going to throw this over to you, Paz, but I wanted to say two things. One, from pure angles on social media and I haven't checked this so please, I hope it's right because it's social media but Havertz has 32 goals and assists in 35.3 90s as a striker for Arsenal.

52:52That's a goal involvement of 0.91 per 90, the highest among current Premier League strikers. The second would be Holland at 0.87. Now, there's a little bit of p-hacking there, right, to do goals and assists and as a striker. And, you know, I get all that. But the goal return is excellent. When you think about what it costs to buy elite strikers and what we paid for him, I mean, when he's fit, other than Holland, there aren't a lot of players I look around the league and say I'd be putting up against him. You know, I do think Jael Pedro's good. I think Kai is the better player. um izak is obviously a lovely player same kind of injury concern there and i i think he's probably better at some of the goal doing stuff but i think havertz is more of an all-rounder who can contribute in all phases of the game so like it's a small list and we got him pretty inexpensively from chelsea it was a wonderful acquisition he's a wonderful player uh i do want to get to the guard stuff paul but you you wagged your finger at me and i i don't want to uh give you short shrift on this one so fire away yeah i've never understood the people thinking we're not getting enough goals and assists from our striker who's Kai Havertz.

53:58But that wasn't my point. My point was there was quite an interesting interview with Havertz afterwards where he talked about kind of a few of the incidents. And I think Charles Watts talked about it from being at the stadium in his pod saying that there was getting to be quite a bit of frustration and moaning and groaning around And Havertz, after he kind of, he left it for Odegaard the first time. And, you know, straight after he leaves it for Odegaard, when maybe he should have done something or taken a shot, almost the next play he gets the ball, he cuts inside, and he immediately gets a shot off, which turns out to be the right thing to do.

54:39It was almost the catch-up shot for the one he didn't take for Odegaard. But what he said in the interview was, like, the best mates and all, but he basically blamed Odegaard. he said both for that one and for Odegaard's later on Odegaard gave him the shout and it was like the tone was I can't remember the exact words but the tone was on the first one I kind of regret doing it but Odegaard called for it so like I let him have it and the second time around he had second thoughts about whether to do it because he got stitched up the first time but he's like you know it was a big shout so I let her roll so it was quite interesting you know you say oh Havertz should have taken a shot there how often is it because the other player they trust the other player and the other player has made the wrong call like Odegaard calls for it now maybe it could have been a better flick to Odegaard but anyway it was interesting well let's talk about the Odegaard goal a little bit more Tim I mean I this is the second goal that we've seen him score sort of like this where he winds up through beautiful play, getting in 1v1 and very confidently and with great composure finishing it.

55:48And I think we've gotten far enough away from the 15 goal 10 assist Odegaard that we kind of forget him a bit. But what typified Martin Odegaard in his pomp was that he could do central midfield stuff. But when he was allowed to follow his run, when he was, you know, extend his run, when he was allowed to get to the edge of the box, he was one of the most competent players we had. in terms of making the right choice with the final ball or his finishing. And Mikel Arteta said something that kind of got lost in all the post-match comments. I think it was to the BBC, because I saw it as one of the interviews on the match of the day.

56:26He said, Mikel said, his personal life is in a better place. And he went through some hard things last season in terms of things that happened related to his home. And then obviously also had a child. I'm not misremembering that, right? He did have a child? Mm-hmm. Okay. Yes. Yeah. I did get that wrong previously with another player. So I'm just double checking who's having children. There's a lot of children being had, you know, or a lot of people, you know, making the effort to have children, if you know what I mean. but uh i think that's an interesting one you know we we think about players in terms of their physical fitness and what they do on the pitch we tend not to think of them as human beings all the time and as someone who's going through something personally right now it can be hard to be at your best in what you do when your personal life isn't sorted and you're under stress and not at ease and i think that combination the the at ease with his personal life you know his his time at arsenal feeling maybe more settled and also by the way a world cup where he played really well and his position as being a prominent top player was kind of i think put back into the narrative and people were reminded of it he just he is playing with an urgency as we said earlier in this pod to get into those areas where he can do damage but when he gets there he's showing a lot of composure and control that that goal was top drawer and it's the second one of the season he's finished like that yeah absolutely and again like I think there's quite a lot going on here you know he I thought he looked better during the World Cup and I think we spoke about how that could almost just be like a bit of a pre-season for him not least because he missed so much football last season that I don't think we had the same concerns over fatigue as well but you're right it jumped out at me that Arteta mentioned like his personal life as well and that that can mean any number of things that we're not privy to in a none of our business either quite frankly great point yeah um and you know it's not for us to speculate on that that's absolutely fine but um yeah and i i like we said earlier the tactical side of it where it feels a bit more like he's a 10 rather than a right eight what we also talked about having a bit more of a left side as well you look at some of the those goals he's scored this in the community shield they're both solis passes from the left where those moves originate where perhaps um and again i don't have the data for this but it feels like we're less like every single thing we do is on the right hand side and obviously that puts like quite a big kind of creative on ball emphasis for him as well but when we build from the left you know he gets to run onto things you know rather than setting the table all the time so and again all of this like some of it might be true some of it might not be true I think we need a bit more time and we need a bit more um yeah we need a bigger sample size before we can definitely say all these things are happening it's because of all of these things like we're talking about two or three goals here but it does feel like he's getting into the box a lot more and getting on the end of things that's what all three of his goals so far this season have been they've been getting on the end of kind of other people's creative work as it were even his goal against Coventry that's a cut back from the right that he runs on to and when you look at most of the goals he did score a couple of seasons ago so many of them were that penalty spot kind of area where you know he arrives and gets on the end of something and felt like he'd kind of stopped doing that whether that was physically whether that was something tactical I don't know it does also feel like he's kind of trusting his body quite a lot more I just think that there's potentially quite a lot going on but at the end of the day we all said in the pre-season prediction pod we were like if he stays fit he's gonna have a hell of a season like none of us I think kind of felt oh no his talent's gone or oh he's gone he's done for like I don't think any of us thought that I think all of us just thought if he's not injured and he gets that rhythm he will be great.

1:00:43Like, I don't think any of us really lost our faith that this player has been there the whole time. I totally agree. And I do think where there was a question is a Martin Odegaard that just does central midfield stuff, right? That drops back to collect the ball, to play it forward or carry it forward is a good player, a valuable player to a lot of teams. A Martin Odegaard, who is just that, in a team that has Declan Rice and Zubamendi and Miles Lewis Kelly and now Bruno Gimeraish, is not as valuable. I just, again, that's not that he's not good. But a Martin Odegaard who can do all of that and can run beyond, get to the edge of the box, play the, I mean, he nutmegs a defender at the top of the box to play the ball in Zubamendi late in the game.

1:01:31It's absolutely beautiful. He has one-twos with Kai on the edge of the box. Obviously, he has the goal that he scores, which wins us the damn game. A Martin Odegaard who has 10 goals and 10 assists in him. A Martin Odegaard who is all over the top of the box, whose heat map is, you know, basically just all over the final third, both left and right as well. Like that to me is, you know, a very, very different proposition. And I think that is where he goes from being just a very good midfielder and an important midfielder to one of the best players in the world and one of the most important players for us.

1:02:10He created the joint most chances in this game. He had 0.72 expected goals. He had 0.88 expected assists. So 1.6 XG plus XA in a game where we had about 2.1 or 2.2, whatever you want to say about it. He created those four chances. He created two big chances. He had two shots, one blocked, one in. I mean, you know, he was all over it. He was all over it. He had six touches in the opposition box. If you look at his heat map, it's all over the pitch, but there's a huge swath of it on the corner of their box, at the top of their box, both at the left and on the right. That is so exciting to see. And like I said, it is not that he wasn't doing the midfield stuff well before.

1:02:52it's at the midfield stuff he was doing well we have a lot of players who are quite good there this, this bit is the bit that takes him to the next level for me Paul and seeing that, the willingness to make the run beyond, the willingness the urgency to get into the box and influence the game in the box and around the box, that I don't think we've seen that Martin Odegaard due to fitness, due to his personal life, whatever the case was, due to tactical adjustments, as much as we've seen it now maybe moving rice over a little bit has helped give him that freedom maybe it's all the other things we've said about the player but but paul for me it is a it is a transformation for us and for him if that is how he's going to be playing this season it's definitely transformation of him um the words fit and firing come up a lot did you agree by the way with my analysis or do you think that i'm undermining that he's always been doing it do you think that that's it that I'm no I'm repeating this to what I want to see I think there's a lot of complication complexity and cause and effect effect in it he doesn't drop into midfield if he doesn't need to or alternatively he'll stay up in that right eight pocket that we expect him to be if the rewards are there and if he's not surrounded by three players and getting batted back every time And guess what?

1:04:10When you've a fit and firing Kai Havertz, Ben White, Bakaya Saka and Martin Odegaard in that area, and they're all singing off the same hymn sheet, there's all sorts. Why would he drop into midfield? Like you even see Solace and bloody Calafiore getting over to right hand side. We got six players over there. Why? Because that's where the party is. why did he leave that right eight spot because like it was him and bukaya saka running on fumes and maybe mascara trying to do like guess what the ball doesn't stay over there there's the rewards aren't there he's dropping into midfield to try and get something else like i just think i don't want to be making excuses but a he wasn't fit and firing b there was no party on the right side to be had right there's a party where uh bakaya saka needs to get home early because he's got school in the morning and like there's no party his his mate who he likes hitting the dance floor havertz isn't there ben white who brings the fun the joker he ain't there like there was no party he didn't stay there the ball wasn't the the rewards weren't there so he tried to make things happen in other places and he wasn't fit and firing and nobody like i think i think we over we got over upset about Odegaard doing other things to try and get us up the pitch into more interesting places you're right what's the cause and effect bit of both he wasn't at the level he couldn't get the rewards in that area himself and there was nobody else to party with now there's a party now he's fit and firing and fit and firing is a word are words I've heard all over the place describing various players in our attack it seems to be the word of the season.

1:05:58That's a good word to have. And, you know, at least for as long as it lasts, you know. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Long may it continue, I guess you would say. Knocking on all sorts of wood. There were so many beautiful moves in this game. I just, I loved seeing the expansive dynamic football we were able to play. I mean, and I think there's more like Pakayo Saka and Declan Rice. I think you can both see them knocking the rust off their game a little bit on the ball. Rice was good. I think he got ran past a couple of times, which you don't associate with Declan Rice. Bakaio, that one move where Kai drags it to him and he takes it early, it's a great shot.

1:06:32It's a great chance. I think he's unlucky not to score. I mean, Martinez does well. He also has the near post shot. So you talk about a Bakaio Saka that maybe isn't quite at his effervescent best, but he covered the most distance of any player in the game, and he took the most shots. So if Bakaio Saka has taken four shots and covering the most distance, like that's kind of where you want him to be you know what I mean and he created a chance as well by the way so like I I think that's a really really good sign he is looking for his shot he is moving around and all this fun movement that's happening is just catnip for Saka I don't think we've seen him at his best yet he has two goals two tapping goals from the back post you know on the weak side of the play from the left side coming to life I thought Solis you know again just to reiterate, was excellent.

1:07:22Good, quick decision-making makes all the players in the attack look better, doesn't it? When you make decisions quicker, when you're not standing on the ball longer, it just makes everything look better. And other players can key their movements if they know it's coming. If you're going to make that decision, I think Solis gives us a lot for Calafiore for other players. They know he's going to make that quick decision. They know it's worth making the run yeah and just those early decisions like a great example of it raya has a beautiful out ball to solis in the um in the was like the 70 something minute uh 76 minute and he he hits it to solis on the run and solis on the volley volleys it central to odegaard and odegaard is fouled by james to break up the counter but just that sort of thing doing things first time doing things quickly we had so much of that in this game which was really exciting um everybody contributed i was a little harsh on ben white in the instant reaction tim i had my eye on him just because i it's tough because some people thought he was brilliant you know you're always going to get the shit housing and the the enthusiasm from ben white um there was that moment where palmer i don't know if he actually meant to shoot it looks like a pass it might have been a poorly hit shot but where brichael pedro's running in behind to the back post you remember it and Palmer slides it in and Jaupater just doesn't quite get to it.

1:08:45He's run off the shoulder of Ben White there. And then Ben White had a couple of loose balls where he gave it away, but he's also trying things, right? He's trying to create stuff, and by and large, he's been solid. So I want to be careful. It's like, am I evaluating Ben White based on prime Ben White and just how elite he was? Am I being too hard on him? Did you see some of the looseness in his game, or were you mostly impressed with what he did? A little bit, but it didn't unduly concern me. But I've got to give the caveat that it was only like the last half an hour I watched live and I've watched it back.

1:09:24Knowing that we had won, which is always easier. You're getting less frustrated with every giveaway when you know it doesn't result in us losing the game. Exactly, exactly. And I do think, particularly in the first half, the first half was unbelievably, it was such a good game. It was such a good game for the quote-unquote neutral. And again, that was another amusing conversation that Adrian Clarke was having with Dan Roebuck. It's a really great game for the neutral and Dan Roebuck, commentator for Arsenal.com, was like, I don't think we've got a lot of those guys listening, to be honest. at the moment but and and it was so intriguingly set up and actually i think the early chelsea goal made it even more that way because that was kind of really what they would have wanted everyone wants to go one nil up in the first minute you know but they've done that that's like third time they've done that this season already it suits them because they're set up for the counter and i love the way we responded our response i think was first class and we absolutely just pushed them back got on top of them really you know got our shots off and we really caused them problems but there is going to be and there was there is a flip side to that and uh and I think sometimes you know um you know particularly as Arsenal fans when we we talk about like I want to take the handbrake off a little bit this season I understand that desire I really do but like when we pitch that scenario we never acknowledge that that does mean that some of the defensive solidity is going to go away and you're going to leave spaces it does have a cost it might be worth it it might be worth the cost but there is a cost there and I do think the game got very very stretched because we were so on top of them I think Ben White was a massive part of the reason we were on top of them as well that overlap he was providing from the right hand side he was just up and down and up and down and and he really helped us to dominate them and push them back but Chelsea they're set up for this and they leave those front three forwards and they it's almost clop Liverpool like with Mane, Firmino and Salah it's like we're not asking those guys to go back we've got a load of grunts in midfield who are going to do their running and we're going to leave them there and that gives you a choice you either leave four there and you take something away from your attack or you back your defenders and I think what we did was we backed our defenders particularly when we were 1-0 down we went right we're going for you and we might leave Konza and Gabrielle exposed and we might even leave Ben White exposed but we back those guys you know to to be able to manage those kind of 1v1s, 2v2s and stuff like that.

1:12:16So I do think that all of the defenders, because I think you could say the same about Konza, I've seen very mixed reviews about his overall performance. Obviously the big booming sliding tackle will be what everyone remembers, but I've seen kind of mixed reviews about how he played at the back. And I just think that that was probably just a consequence of the game state where we decided we're not having this. we want back in this game ASAP. And if it means leaving some gaps, then we'll leave the gaps and we'll trust ourselves. And I think the defenders, Ben White included, are probably always going to have moments where that doesn't look fantastic for them.

1:12:56Yeah, that's perfectly, perfectly fair. I mean, Ben White was second on Arsenal in the number of sprints with 12. Only Christos Soli, 17, led the whole game, had more. I should clarify one thing on Bakayosaki. He didn't cover the most distance. He covered the most distance running. He ran 2.6 kilometers. 25 % of his distance was spent running. That is top in the game. In terms of distance covered, Christos Solis, again, the most sprints, the most distance covered. And interestingly, he was near the top of top speed as well for a player that we don't think of as a pure sprinter. Top speed actually was Kai Havertz, interestingly enough.

1:13:31Wouldn't have expected that. I never understand this. He's so fucking fast. Tall people don't look fast when they're running. I think that's what it is. Does Erling Haaland look fast? He doesn't. He just looks like he's lumbering, but he lumbers at a very high speed. He's got a fast lumber. He's got a fast lumber. By the way, just to put, you know, draw a line under how good this Odegaard performance was, he was second in touches in the box. He was top in chances created. He was also top in line-breaking passes with 24 of his 49 accurate passes, 24 passes that broke lines. Second was Declan Rice at 23.

1:14:08just to put in perspective with Chelsea, the next closest player after Odegaard and Rice with 24 and 23 was Chelsea's Wesley Fofana with 13. So a big drop off there, and by the way after that Ben White with 12. Again, back to Ben White. Seven passes into the final third as well. So just some interesting data underlying that. Look, I think as we make the turn for home here, we should just quickly talk about subs, and you know, this is where you see, we didn't have to use Bruno Gimreis today. No Urien Timber. No William Saliba. We didn't bring Ebrecha Ezzon. I mean, it's an embarrassment of riches for a team that was coming out of the transfer window with a lot of people feeling pretty downtrodden about it.

1:14:47And that's not to say we couldn't have used the extra attacker and injuries can change the complexion of a team, but it's a lot of quality. Tim, I guess we should at least touch on this. I didn't see a lot of positive comments around the Okras performance, And I think in a way, when Kai's just played such a good game and been off to a good start and Yorchars hasn't gotten off the bench in the first three games until this moment, and he comes on and two of the most sort of obvious things he does are clunky touches that either go to the opposition or go out for a throw. Like, that's the exact kind of thing that's going to have people racing for the narrative they think about this player.

1:15:28I still think he's a useful guy. I still think he has things to offer. But this just, you know, technically, it's so weird, right? We were saying it almost feels bizarre that at the end of last season we're saying the technical level of this team has to come up. And now we've gotten our players back in Yoke and you're like, holy cow, the technical level of this team is insane. It really is about who you can put on the pitch, and maybe Victor Jokras is a great example of that. And when you put him and Nani and a Martinelli on the pitch together, yeah, your technical level is going to look lower.

1:15:56But I don't think there's any need to stick the boot in after a win over Chelsea where we looked great, but it's at least worth touching on, you know, let's just say an underwhelming 15 or so minutes from Jokras coming on to spell Kai. Yeah, definitely. I felt, first things first, I felt taking Havertz and Erdogan off, both at the same time instinctively felt wrong to me from the beginning. I think take one of those guys off, fine. Like Havertz did look tired in particular. Bring Mikel Moreno on all day long. Yes, I want that player on. I think he's great in every game state. I think he should have gone up front.

1:16:34I think we know Victor Jokerez well enough by now to know that the ball doesn't stick. And that's what we needed. We were 2-1 up. We were kind of defending it. and unfortunately in that game state it's a black hole up front it just is we know that by now and there's also another part of me that's beginning to wonder what is the Jocares game state um probably when we need a goal I think I think you know if we'd been 1-1 for example let's have Havertz and Jocares on there um you know in some combination like it does feel like the window shutting a little bit on the precise games and it's beginning like i was thinking about this and it's i was kind of thinking i i want your karez to start on wednesday in naples but i think that's more because i want to protect havertz you know that's what players do sometimes though right sometimes they're big important players like like bruno gimareich and miles lewis skelly and zuba mendy like they're all going to be battling positions sometimes they just are there to eight minutes a little bit exactly that's exactly where i was going like michael marino probably not in our first choice starting 11 but he feels like player number 12 and to me i think we're coming to the stage where that should be for two positions that's an interesting point so frankly i want to double click on that is michael marino potentially in a position where the manager thinks of him as the alternate to Kai if let's say he doesn't want to start Kai in the game at Sunderland for any reason hopefully not fitness just you know protecting him is Mikel Marino ahead of him in a league game as a starting consideration or do you think that's going too far I it doesn't look like it in fact it doesn't look like Arteta's been um inclined to use Marino I want to be careful saying as a nine because I don't think the last time he came into the team I don't think that's is what he was doing but he hasn't done it other than when he's been absolutely forced to when Havertz and Jokeres have been unavailable so it doesn't look that way I still think it would be my preference to be honest but at the same time I do wonder if that's quite game statey as well to me 2-1 against Chelsea it's early in the season players are tired I wanted Mourinho because I want the ball to stick that's what I'm thinking of right if we needed to score I think I'd have been more kind of I don't know if okay sounds a bit underwhelming but like I probably would have been like yeah let's bring Jokeres on we need a goal um but I want have I want someone that because one of the things that's frustrating about Jokeres he just has no hold up play whatsoever despite his physique he hasn't like the ball just does not stick to him and you kind of need someone the ball's going to stick to and that's why you know for me if he's on Havertz or Marino do have to be on but in this particular game state I would have wanted Marino to go up front and I felt both wide players were flagging and I didn't like that double sub because we took off both guys whereas I felt we could have staggered that a bit at least and we left the very tired wingers on and I just felt like uh we that's it now we are just defending this and I believe we can do that and I believe we're good at that but there's no two-way threat anymore there's no holding the ball up like this is we're bunkering in and when you're bunkering in I think you need someone who who can possess the ball well here's the problem I can see the Marino for Odegaard sub as a win more duels, be able to bosh them off the ball, get it back.

1:20:26He's still got the technical quality there, whatever. If what you want to do is win more duels and keep the ball or get the ball back or be more defensively sound, the problem for a Jokers is that Kai is great at that stuff too. You know what I mean? Like Odegaard, when he starts to flag a little bit, maybe he's not as strong in the duel. Maybe he's not as much of a ball, a regain guy. Maybe he's not going to cover the ground as much. And Marino can do that. What makes it hard for Jokers is that Kai does all the things. He does all the things. He's so well-rounded in that regard. I don't think we need to go further on this because I do think we're going to see Yoko start in Napoli, and that's an opportunity for him to go plant a flag a little bit.

1:21:02And I do think there will be periods of this season where he has to be important. I think we're at the point where maybe it's consensus to understand that we can improve on that quality, but I don't think we need to get too intense about it, for lack of a better way to put it. I do think with Kai starting and playing well, it actually allows us to be more relaxed about Jokeres rather than more intense in our scrutiny of him. I don't think anybody thinks that our best situation now is that he plays 90 % of our games like he had to last season. So we're in a good spot, actually. And that means we could support all our players.

1:21:38Paul, Eze did not get off the bench. Now, I imagine he will start in Napoli. it is a little bit of a marker for me and I gotta be careful here because you know your logic has to be internally consistent I was going to say about trusting him as the left wing option I mean he brought him on at halftime at Phillip Park now I think he felt like he had to because Solis was on a tightrope and it was the right move he didn't bring him on at all today or yesterday but that may also be because he feels he's going to try to play him most of the game in Napoli and if he does that and he plays well off the left there I think you have a vibrant and interesting battle for that position.

1:22:14Right now, the jury's out on that one. So do you have a thought on him not coming on in the battle for Eza's role? Because he's a big character in the dressing room, for what I understand, an important character. I don't think Ebrecha Eza is going to be happy being marginalized. He's in the absolute prime of his career, and he's a very talented player. But I don't know. So how do you feel about that scenario? Yeah, I don't think he'd be happy he didn't get on the pitch but like you say he's I think that's going to be his season there's going to be games he starts and games where he's not synonymous he's still not synonymous with um seeing out a game for me I mean he's he's much better than he was when he got yanked but like against uh Villa uh he'd a really good game when he came on I still remember three four times Like there's an interesting pass he spirals into our central defenders to create an attacking opportunity for Villa that was never there.

1:23:18And he has that kind of feel-good vibes that he's tightened up to know when to take risks. But he hasn't tightened it up enough. And if I'm Martetta, I'm thinking, who do I want on the pitch? Do I want a Solis-Trossard-Martinelli guy with 20 minutes to go when, as Tim just points out, you've just taken off Havertz and Odegaard? Do I want to really see how lucky I'm feeling and bring on Eze, who's better but still not? That is not his game state. It's just not. Especially coming in cold to a game like that. So I think it may just be a little unfortunate this is a game where Arteta looks at it and says, nah, not feeling that.

1:24:03I'm not feeling this guy down my... Like, who came on? Can I say something about that? I do think, though, it is a really important point, so that's why I'm stopping you, Paul. If Mikel has concerns about Ezza off the ball, out of possession, from a defensive standpoint, as a wide player, I think that will reduce his reliance on that player and willingness to utilize him in games that he thinks will be tight or require defensive solidity. And if that is Mikel's first impulse, and I think it probably is, that is going to make it more challenging, I think, for Ezza to get on the pitch in situations where Mikel regards it as a critical game.

1:24:48I mean, they're all critical games, but you know what I mean? An off-the-ball game. I don't think if he believes that Ezza is not at the right intensity or capability off the ball out of possession from a wide position. I just don't think he will wind up using him as much as he might want. Yeah. And look, Ezzet can do more, but players are wired a certain way. I saw him at Villa, three or four situations that didn't need to be. Now it can happen to any player who comes in in the second half. He was a big part of why we won the game. Great. But he could have been part of the reason we got ourselves into a bunch of trouble and this game they bring on Estevão and he causes us quite a bit of pain from his side we bring on Hincapié helps lock it down like Calafiore's off too right Hincapié's on this was a this was a game in which he'd like to have had Trossard or Martinelli in front of Hincapié in the last 20 minutes and Eze is not that and he's going to have to be okay with the fact that times when he feels he's due about 20 minutes he's not the right formula to see out a game and i'm okay with that and like if he starts against napoli he'll forget all about it he'll have it's up at that point it's up to him to make the case why he should stay on for 90 minutes against napoli not 70 minutes and he gets his chance to prove it yeah yeah well i think we can just draw a line under this game except to say to him that But I think it's a really exciting example of us playing expansive, entertaining football.

1:26:25Also being able to close it down. I don't think Villa or Chelsea, in games where they needed a goal, really created a sense of threat. I think we managed it really, really well. The quality players are back, and they're playing well, and that makes a difference. And some of the players we brought in are making a difference. And we still have more to bring in with Bruno continuing to be integrated. Timber coming back. He's in training. Saliba eventually getting back. So lots of really good news there. I mean, we currently have allowed 0.9 expected goals. The next closest is City, I believe, at 2.7.

1:27:02And it's not like they've played a murderer's row. you know we're doing what we need to we have won all three games I think we look like what we thought we'd look like Tim which is if not the absolute clear favorite certainly a favorite to win this league again and I think we have levels still to go so a really important day to put a marker down everybody watching played great one put Chelsea in their place a bit because if you do think one game a week and a pretty good manager and a big squad is going to allow them to do some stuff, beating them just makes it that much harder to get past us. As it turns out, if you can beat City twice, you've got a good chance of beating City to the title.

1:27:46If you lose to City twice, you're probably not going to beat City to the title. So this is good if you think they're going to be there. Just a quick thought on our start and how impressive we have looked and how excited you are about what's still to come. yeah there's a few things here so there's the whole Saka, Odegaard, Havertz and Marino I think as a more minor character there being fit and that's really really helped I think what you're seeing about Arsenal that there's a lot that a lot of people miss about Arsenal about the type of team we are so not enough people took those absences into consideration last year and and why we kind of looked like we did at times but the other thing I was kind of reflecting on is is to your point in this game we saw two completely different faces of Arsenal we saw the one nil down face which was the right we're coming for you we're pinning you back we're going to suffocate you until we score and then we saw that right we're 2-1 up now game's done see you later get on the bus type thing and we and people really acknowledge the second part of that but a lot of people think that's all we do both because we missed some of our more created players last season but also the type of games people watch right and we all probably do this around our rivals think about which Chelsea games do you watch you watch them play Man City Liverpool and it's the Liverpool who do you watch them play you watch them play Man City Man United Chelsea like did you watch liverpool whip switch on friday night i didn't and and some of those like saturday 3 p.m home games i was thinking about last season like we played leads at home took them apart 5-0 forest saturday 3 p.m took them apart 3-0 but no one sees those games no one cares about those games they watch you in the big games they watch you in the away games they watch you in the tough and tight games and those are the games where arsenal in particular are more likely to put the clamps on but we are Our great strength is we have many different ways of playing.

1:29:49And it comes back to something Rob Edwards said a couple of years ago when he was the Luton manager. And he just said, whatever you try to do to Arsenal, they'll do it. Like, you want to turn it physical. Chelsea wanted this game to be physical. They keep doing that as well. Never works. Lots of cynical trips off the ball and stuff like that. Rotation and fouling. Rodgers certainly got pissed about that. Yeah, and don't get me wrong. It is kind of funny when a ref misses a call because Rice just trips him and Roger's got absolutely mental. Of course, but we did it as well. We were like, you're doing it?

1:30:18Okay, fine, we'll do it. And do you know what? We'll do it better than you as well. So that's the thing about us. We've got a lot of different faces and we've seen that this season as well. And this game was almost like a combination of the first two games. So Coventry, you get the lovely flow, you get the 3-0, the lovely sexy football. And then at Villa, again at Villa, we had a 15-minute period where we kind of smashed the foot down and went, right, we're going to score a goal. Then we scored a goal and went, right, closing the game down. And I felt like this game was almost like an amalgamation of the first two games.

1:30:55Yeah, yeah. It's been a great start to the season, seeing lots of different ways that we can play and just really enjoyable to see that, knowing that I think there's more to come. And we get into that interesting part of the season now, by the way, where European football comes in. And we know that this is where the season gets a little squirrely, right? We know that. We know that this is where it can get a little tricky

1:31:25because you're having to rotate. But this is where I think our strength and depth should show up. By the way, Tim, I did want to ask you, we're doing a new section. I don't know if you knew this, and I don't think it'll be a favorite of yours, but I decided one of the things I wanted to do this season every week is say, what was your favorite Tottenham goal of the week? Do you have a favorite Tottenham goal this season or this week? Come back to me on that next week. Yeah, we'll see. Obviously, it's a harder segment to do because they haven't scored a goal yet this season, but we'll stay tuned for that.

1:31:57Paul, last, last, last thing. We play Napoli away. We know that the league phase of the Champions League matters because we parlayed winning it last season into a straightforward path to the final. So you can't not take this stuff seriously. And Napoli away is just tough enough where you're like, it's not our hardest fixture. We do want to win it. We want to win all of them. We have much harder fixtures. We have Madrid. We have Bayern, all that stuff. But it's also early enough in the season when we don't have a full complement of players. I expect Ezeza to start. I expect Jokres to start. I think maybe Zubimendi comes in and starts.

1:32:34But then I'm like, maybe I'm overthinking this and Mikel will just go quote unquote full strength and try to be in a position to swap players out. So am I overthinking it? Is this Elliot? It's the Champions League. You play your strongest 11 in the Champions League or will he try to rely on the strength and depth of the squad? I think because he's held certain players back for longer than he wants. Like, I think he wants Jokeresh to have got more minutes than he's got so far. Same with Eze. So he'll be itching to get these guys into, like we read a little too much like you can read too much the fact that Yacoresh has barely played and that Eza didn't get on in this particular game I'm sure Arteta wants them on the pitch he wants them playing he's just not going to risk the game that he's got in front of him so and he's got you know he can start Yacoresh he can start Eza and if for some reason he needs to change something in the early second half, he'll do that.

1:33:35So I think he's going to lean into some rotations. Bruno, Guy Moresh, he'll start. Well, I think that's going to be very fitness dependent. I don't think he's going to start Bruno if he wants to buy him a couple extra days to get fit. You know what is crazy though, Paul? He could go Nani, Jokeres, Eze, Zubimendi, Bruno, Marino. It's a really strong group and it's entirely rotated. Entirely. Now, at the back, it gets trickier. Mascara may not be available. He may have to go right back to White, Kansa, Gabi. He will certainly start in Capier, I would think. But so he could make, what is that? That's seven.

1:34:13He could make seven changes. He could go Nani, Yokares, Eza, Zubi, Bruno, Marino, and in Capier in. And have a super strong group out there. Now, do I think he's going to make seven changes for an away game in the Champions League to start a campaign there? I mean, he could. He really, really could. And the team probably needs it a bit to keep everybody involved. But it just shows, like, the insanity of the depth at this point, you know? Yeah. I think if, like, the one player I'm thinking who, if he can do anything, give White a rest. Oh, I thought you were going to say start Kepa. Nope. If he can do anything, start Kepa.

1:34:53No, I'm not ready for that. Yeah, I'd say give White a rest. I just, I don't know how you do that unless Mascara's fit. He's the player that I don't want seeing playing every three days, right this moment. Like if we can just see another week or two, I'd get Timber back in. Now we've got options, and then maybe we'll have Mascara, White, Timber as options on the right-hand side, and Konza, depending on what you want to do. There's four players who can play there, two players who can then play right center back. and like now you can get quite three days physio or five days physio between games and kind of don't play him till he's at 100 % and then we can keep that dynamic whenever we need it on the right-hand side of the pitch.

1:35:39So almost more than any other, in October, November, December, we won't care about who bloody started against Napoli. Riyaka Rache, whoever, we won't bloody care. it's yeah yeah sorry sorry i was gonna say it's also it's wednesday saturday right it's not tuesday sunday it's not wednesday sunday it's wednesday saturday so a shorter turnaround i think he has to play that in it's sunday wednesday saturday but here's the thing then it's league cup chance to do big rotation yeah then it's bright and away which looks like a very tricky game on a saturday then it's that 17 week international break so i think he can if he wants, he can be a little mixy and matchy here, try to get through this week of Napoli and then Sundle, and then massively rotate for Ipswich away, come back big and strong for Brighton, and then you've got three weeks off, so we'll see.

1:36:28I'm sorry I cut across you, Paul, but it just dawned on me we're getting quite long in the tooth here. We've got another pod to do tomorrow, and then critically another pod to do the day after that, and then critically another pod to do the day after that, and then the difference is we'll have another pod to do the day. I feel like the pod got long in the tooth. We didn't. No, we We didn't know. We're fresh as daisy. We're in our prime. We came in wrong in the tooth. That's going to do it. Look, countdown tomorrow, instant reaction on Wednesday, main pod Thursday. And if Clive is back Friday night, Clive on Friday.

1:36:55But if not, we'll do something else on Friday. And then an instant reaction on Saturday. And then on Sunday, because there's a book about this, we rest. Enough of that. Okay, Paul, thank you. Thanks, Tim. My pleasure as always. Huge love to everybody out there. I know I have a lot of emails, a lot of DMs, a lot of stuff to respond to. It is not that they don't mean a lot. They do mean a lot. It's a lot to respond to that I want to respond to, but it's also a lot going on personally. So to the extent that I haven't responded to you yet, please know that the message you sent was received and mattered and helped.

1:37:27There's been a lot of really good advice too, just people with experience who are being helpful. So yeah, I can't thank you enough for that. Okay, we'll leave it there. Clive, wherever you are, on a beach somewhere, with a drink, with an umbrella in your hand, we miss you, we love you. Thanks everybody. We'll talk to you after Arsenal 10, Napolino.