Arsenal Salvage Frustrating Draw Against City

34:51Elliot:And where he clipped his goal from, what's he doing standing there? Do you know what I mean? Seriously, what's he doing standing there? And thank God that Califori finally let him have a chance to pass it, and he clipped him behind, right? and so i think we we fixate on 11s which by the way you know as as a fan's right you know to we all pick teams in our mind that's why fantasy football so popular right so we all pick teams in our mind as a fan's right we'll fix that 11 but fixate on the game can you see the game plan what what is the game telling you what is it telling you now and have we got the tools to take it that's the that's the only thing that matters that's the only thing that matters so honestly he is and when that game presented itself he took off as defender we had about nine attackers on the pitch right so and then he had to change it quickly because we had too many playing centre back and they look bigger than us and he's way back and seen the set piece in the last two minutes would have made us all cry right so it's always the game now my worry is we did start well Elliot I still I couldn't I didn't feel the game plan I didn't feel it I don't know what we're trying to achieve i didn't feel it mate why not just play the same team bill bell just we won play the same team but he took he sort of took sa out and i and i'm not sure that was the right thing to do particularly for that opponent i thought you should have kept him kept him in the team he would have given us some gravitas some ball player to play to i think that was an error and i agree paul that was the bigger error than marina i i may be wrong about this but i sense that mikhail has a hard time with these players who try lots of stuff and some of it doesn't come off.

36:27Eze is a player who can be loose with the ball. Eze is a player who tries stuff that isn't on. Eze is a player who tries stuff that's a little bit luxurious. A little bit capricious. A little bit extravagant. And he doesn't

36:40Elliot:press from the front. Last Crystal Palace fans, they will tell you pressing is his weakness. And so they just want him to get it. Once he's got the ball back, that's when they give it to him. you know and he does his thing so what does our 10 do he's right in the press isn't he he leads it he leads the press so that's why him in the nine that's why he's not playing and that's why but if you play him from the left clive he doesn't have to lead the press he just has to be able to stay hence why my position is pick the same team as bill bow it'll yeah and he played from the left in that game like so yeah yeah and and you know i said this on the instant reaction and i think Paul's rejoinder to it is a fair one, which is you have to worry about things too like meritocracy.

37:23When you have a very big squad, if Eze goes to Bilbao and plays just okay, and Martinelli and Leo go win you the game, how do you look them in the eye and say, I'm going back to the guy who was just okay, and I'm not playing either of the guys who won the game? How does that feel like a meritocracy? You have to reward players when they say, I'm fighting for the shirt, I got you a goal and an assist, and you're starting the other guy anyway. But, to Paul's point, which he made well to me when we were just chatting, is you do that for like a different game maybe not city like like let the meritocracy thing count for games but maybe not maybe not this game paul quickly on on their goal um i i think the consensus on it and it's the way i see it but i know you didn't see it that way in real time so i'm wondering if you revise i see this as gabby stepping up to press and win a loose ball that he probably shouldn't be stepping up to win and that's all it took reiners does a nice job play He plays basically a long-range 1-2 with Haaland.

38:23It's just over 60 yards. And once Haaland's galloping, no one can catch him. I think Saliba has a decision to make about taking Reiners, but that's a much harder one because you can get beat a couple ways. But do you see it that way now, having rewatched it, that Gabby does get caught pinching up instead of dropping off? I certainly think he gets caught upfield. pressing Haaland, but I think that's something that was the game plan. So you live by the sword, you die by the sword. Don't think he's done anything wrong there. Like we got Haaland upfield, it's physical, but they have a moment of brilliance that suits them.

39:09The real strength of that play is that Haaland's so deep that he then, with the power of his running, is basically unmarkable. He's a really clever pass through to Rinders, who I think does great kind of... He's like one of those fighter aircraft that's based on an unstable flight. He's flicking left, right, left, right in his run-up so that he has Saliba and Timber both on toast because he can go either way. And he's almost got them hypnotized at that point. and then the power of Haaland's running. I mean, look, were mistakes made, could, like, okay, but let's not nitpick it to death. That is a brilliant counter-attacking goal that plays into the strength of Haaland, the power and speed of his run.

39:58Just good luck. Like, if you know how it's about to play out and how fast and, like, great, but you have an instant in which to decide, am I going to keep covering Reinders who looks awful dangerous and like who's to the left of Reinders? Doku, he's just waiting to be fed. So you can say the right, like I agree, the right choice was at that exact moment to peel off and cover Haaland. But it's a bit 20-20 hindsight. Reinders can kill you, Doku can kill you and like sleep out a lot on his plate right at that moment. So I think you can nitpick it, but basically it's all about the brilliance of that counterattacking moment.

40:44And in our goal, it's all about the brilliance of the guys seeing the run and the guy making the run. They had their moment. We had our moment. I don't really fault anybody. Like, could they have done something? Yes. Would I fault them? Not really. That's what Haaland, Reinders will do to you. Doku to their left, who didn't play a role, but did. because it's Doku to their left on his right foot. He's just praying for it to be played to him. Yeah, and by the way, you mentioned him, so I'll just say I think Doku was very good in this game. Like, honestly, in a way, maybe we got unlucky that Marmouche was unavailable because I think Doku helped them really pressure a lot and get them out of trouble.

41:27He's extremely press resistant, obviously, because of his incredible dribbling. Look, this is why I think a lineup that's designed to win duels and control a game can sometimes catch you only in the sense that Manchester City have great players. We outplayed them by a mile, but they got one moment, and one moment's all Holland needs, one moment was all Reiners needed, and it was enough to get them a goal. And you got to go into a game thinking we can score two because in most games, scoring one may not be good enough against the likes of Erling Holland, right? So, I mean, I looked at it. Erling Holland is averaging 1.36 expected goals per 90 so far this season.

42:04he's having a great start to the season, right? I think I read this was his worst start to a season from a goal scoring standard ever he's just, he's inevitable, he's unstoppable we cost him.36 of a goal in this match there you go well, and like, yeah, we marshaled him well and he could have had two goals he really could have you know, so it's it just is what it is I think the good news is whatever we think of the lineup a great thing about this game is that we didn't wait. We didn't make the mistake, in air quotes, of Anfield, I think, which was waiting until the game turned away from us. We made the change quickly, and we'll talk to that.

42:43Let's get a palate cleanser here so we can get to the positives of a dominant second half, good changes that we made, recovering the game with a sensational goal. It's a goal that should have been a winner. You know what I mean? Oh, would that have been a moment? Because it's that good. And we'll talk a little bit about where this leaves us in bigger picture stuff. some performances to analyze too, players like Yelkrest that I want to get some takes on. But we obviously, obviously should tell you that if you are planning to watch things like the match review of the day show or the hilarious video of someone doing something on the internet that is geo-locked in your area, then NordVPN is the way to not have that problem because NordVPN lets you bypass those things by saying, I want to browse in this region or I want to browse in that region.

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46:07Established in 2025 has a nice ring to it, doesn't it? Sign up for your$1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash arsenalvision, all lowercase. That's shopify.com slash arsenalvision, all lowercase. To start selling with Shopify, that is shopify.com slash arsenalvision. Do it now. Is that enough of that? Indeed. Now that voice is just about holding up, I don't have the Andrew post-Bill Bao voice, but I do have the Elliot post-Kansas City voice. So just about getting through it, which is good. Clive, how surprised were you to see the halftime changes? The one that really surprised me, I was expecting maybe Leo to come off.

46:40Not that he was terrible or anything. I just thought maybe he'd try something different. Or, you know, if Nani had the injury, obviously that was more enforced. But to see as a come in for Marino was an interesting change. I don't think we've seen him in that position before. Mikel was very clear he can operate from that central space and that's why we brought him in there so what do you think of Mikel being so quick to change it and the changes he picked

47:07Elliot:yeah he sort of bristles at some of the questions he's probably thinking hold on I've just paid money for this play I can use him as us as I see fit do you know and um he can obviously play in that role he did for England the other day actually it was okay not great from the right hand side per se but this game was just different it's just two banks of five right and so so I did sort of say my lifetime, I are a bit bold, had a few drinks, said, we've got to make changes now, because I did have an Anfield in my mind. And I sort of said, you know, we've got to get Saccharineze on. And when I came back outside there on, I was feeling pretty smug, right?

47:39Elliot:But by then, what you don't really notice, I did on the rewatch this morning, was how City had really retreated. They'd really gone back. And so everything, it's all off, right? It's a different game, different game plan. Whatever your game plan was at the start, it's a different one. so City tried to do what we did when we had 10 men and we drew 2-0 they tried to do the same thing and they really had a go when I saw Ake come I couldn't believe it you know and so really it was an SA10 game but not as we know it not as classic Arsenal where I would go front 2-4-4-2 pressing from the front receives it wasn't it wasn't classic but there was combinations on the right there was good play from him and yeah it's nice wasn't it it was nice to see somebody else do some good stuff.

48:27Elliot:I have to say, there was such fantastic crossing in this game for many different people. Really was. And when you say, okay, people say successful cross, what is that? I thought City defenders cross me really, really well. But these crosses, they weren't over-hit. They were dropping into danger areas really consistently. And we were close to getting them, but we weren't positioned to get them. They defended it well. You can complain if your Cres was good enough. Did Marino hit the box enough in the first half? If you're going to be there, mate, get in the box next to him and really be an impact.

49:01Elliot:He's very good at that. Califure got himself in and there were so many other instances where we were close. I thought some deliveries were well thought through. You could say maybe we overcrossed, but people want to see the ball going into the dangerous areas and City just brought on more people and just squeezed the space. We've done it before. I'm not going to moan about it. We've done it before. But yeah, it was just nice to see him do that thing and so now we stick to our next 11 okay portfall doesn't really matter but newcastle now it's going to be so interesting to see what we do because anyway we need to win don't mess about we need to win you know there's a point accumulation in this tough first six games and you know we need to get sammy and newcastle to redress the balance of anfield in this home game it is a reflection of who we are now and where we are in the hierarchy that we regard a draw against City as a bad result.

49:55We regard not going for City as a poor approach. It is also a reflection of Liverpool being perfect through these first five games. And if they don't get a late, late, late winner against Newcastle or a late, late, late winner against this or a late, late, late winner against that, which they continue to do, this draw might be regarded differently, right? Because Liverpool could very easily be on like seven points. It sounds hyperbolic, but it's really the case. So the reaction to it is, of course, going to be informed by what's happening with Liverpool and what our aspirations are for the season.

50:38Paul, this game did turn into something I would never have expected, which is one-way traffic. Pep, I think a little cheekily, said, sometimes you have to defend because the opponent is better. I mean, okay, it's about as clear as it gets. And the data is about as clear as it gets. I told you earlier, I'd give you the exact date. It was 39 touches in the opposition box to their seven. They had five shots. But I've been guilty of this. I have been a purveyor of information that I am starting to think might be wrong. As we started to get to be this good team that we are now, Paul, I was blown away by how dominant we could be in games.

51:20We have all the field tilt. We have all the ball. We have all the final third touches. We have all the penalty box touches. But still a game that ends 0.9 to 0.9 on XG. It's still a game where until Martinelli's chance, I think we had like 10 shots worth 0.6 expected goals. It's not a lot of clear chances. There is a bit about us where we can dominate games, but we still aren't maybe as effective at carving open the opposition as we probably need to be to consistently get three points. And we are learning a different way to play with our striker. Mikel was asked about Jokeres, and he said, well, there were a lot of very good balls in the box, especially I remember three of them, that he was very, very close to doing against City.

52:05To have very big open chances is extremely difficult, but he's certainly trying his best. I mean, I hope so. And trying to do that, we have to provide more for him, that's it. There were a lot of situations where the chances were there, and then the final pass was missing today. In many moments, it was very, very open. And I think he means open to have done it if we did it right. You and I were sitting side by side of this game and it was a weird environment to watch a game because a lot of people and celebration and things like that. But when Martinelli came on, first two runs he made, he gets goal side.

52:37We saw Jokras sometimes struggling to get goal side and push his way through and burst his way through. So he's adapting, but it is an uneven adaptation. What do you think of how he did? Look, the one thing you can say about it is it's still early days for him. He's not helped. I think the part of our game that we have not yet worked out in this season is what goes on in the attacking third. Partly rotation of personnel, key persons you would want on the pitch, Like, we have a strong squad. We've built up the squad, but we don't have Saka. We don't have Odegaard. Maduweki's been great, but he's a soloist.

53:25We don't seem to have adapted to his cutbacks. There will be people who say no end product. I think he's got great end product so far. Maybe we'll judge him at the end of the season as not having enough end product. But his crosses are good. His cutbacks are good. From the position he plays, I don't know what more you want from him. but that's the only piece of the pitch we've really worked out at this point. Our left eight, our right eight, our left wing, and a new center forward who's dropping in, looking to get in behind, but kind of for the center backs facing us, they kind of just got to worry about Jokeres at the moment.

54:03Matt Uweki on one side and Jokeres, and he's been coming up to speed. I'm making lots of excuses for him, because when you see him on the pitch with Haaland, And it's like, wasn't close. That's for sure. I mean, he doesn't need to be Erling Haaland though, does he? But he needs to be maybe a little bit better. Well, you want him to be close to Erling Haaland. He's very much, that's his proposition, right? And he ain't. And he looks a little heavy. He's getting a little faster. But I do think it's very unfair to be judging him. So you're kind of judging the shadows of a player at the moment. because all the way of playing around him just isn't there yet.

54:45Who's been happy with what we've done on the left wing? Who's been happy with the player in the left eight position so far, the player in the right eight position so far? But we have to judge a player is going to be in a low-touch situation. On the other hand, Martinelli, we have this Martinelli proposition, Clive and I have talked about it a little bit, about bringing him on later on in the game as a substitute striker, making those runs in behind, because nobody does it like him. And this, like, I would say for a couple of years now, I've been watching him make runs in behind that we bloody never find.

55:25And here's, you know, we had to bring in Eze from deep down the pitch, who almost doesn't have time to pick him out, but sees him, puts in a perfect ball. Martinelli makes those runs all day long. I know there's a Yachoresh conversation, but that should have been Yachoresh. But it wasn't. It was Martinelli. And I don't actually think anybody does that run. Even if Yachoresh makes that run, nobody's going to be as decisive. That burst that Martinelli has, it's electric, it's committed, it's absolute. He gets himself into that spot. pole position like we didn't see with Trossard from the left wing twice in the first half.

56:07It's certainly the thing he does. He gets pole position. We've seen him score goals from those positions. He may have a late-stage Arsenal career as a substitute striker or a winger but running through the center. But yeah, look, it's early still to judge Jokeres. There's a lot around him that is not yet functioning, and that's the area of the pitch we have not worked at whatsoever. Yeah, I don't think you have to judge. I just think you can have an analysis of what you've seen so far, right? I think sometimes when you say, so far, here's what I think, people say, you're judging. It's not judging.

56:41It's what I've seen so far. And I think it is fair to point out, one of the theories of the case on this player is he's a shot monster. We've always talked about this. You want strikers who get shots. Against United, no shots. Liverpool, no shots. City, no shots, right? So we need to find ways to get our strikers shots because strikers don't score if they get no shots. If you think about Hoyland, and I'm not calling him Hoyland, but what I was going to say is the concern that followed Hoyland to the Premier League was he was he going to be shot shy. And that turned out to be a big problem. He was taking less than one shot per 90 and you can't get goals that way.

57:11So we have to get this guy shots. And when you get him shots, as we've seen in the other games where he's taken shots, he scores goals and he impacts the outcome. So when you have 67 % possession and your striker has the fewest touches of anybody on the pitch and no shots, you haven't unlocked that player and that player hasn't unlocked themselves I mean I think that's a fair yeah I think the way the way they played it was a

57:36Elliot:there was no shots coming in behind that that back three right that back five I think um with my eyes I'll tell you what I saw particularly second half when he's coming towards me I thought there was one chance that came across the box I thought he still got stuck in the ground but it's got got deflected behind him and i just i wish for a bit of agility just to reach back for it and side foot it in but that's the fan in me thinking can you just get us that goal because if we get that goal i think we're going to win the game um he tries to make runs but i think he's so he's hard he's not inconspicuous right so he's making the runs everyone knows he's coming and they just drop off and cover around right so he then turns it around recycle and go again i think some of these runs i said earlier are a little bit basic and i came out the ground thinking, mate, did he stop running after that chance?

58:27Elliot:Did he stop working? We watched it this morning. He was still working. He was still working hard, trying his best. I'm not sure he's running numbers, but I think I want to know he's running numbers, but he's trying, but I'm not seeing the separation. I'm not. And I've seen him in the 0-9s before against our defenders and he looked really really quick he's not looking as quick and so what do i say with that do i say well he can't run well i think he can run you know i think he can but i just don't think he's there yet and he i'm much like much like sesco he's having to adjust right in front of us right and that's the only thing i can say because unless if i'm not going to say that we've got a dud i don't think we have right so but i tell you now if kai havers was fit i think he plays these top six games i really do why wouldn't you we know i'm and why wouldn't you do it right so um and then he comes on and he looks like martinelli's looking really quick really sharp coming on late in games it wasn't so long ago and i've got to say this because i gave him a bit of stick and once so long ago that we are worried about his speed why is about decisiveness it's it's interesting seeing him when he's fresher versus when he's a bit more fatigued and the game doesn't suit him he's a completely different player he looks super confident that can happen for your quiz at the moment it's not happening and it is a concern so let me put another scenario to you when you play peps team i think on-ball security is really important having high-touch players is really important you need to control the football you need to have ingenuity on the football if hindsight team was this a trossage game or merino game at center forward i'm bringing in honor, Jokeres.

1:00:11Elliot:Do you see what I mean? Because this is a game for people that can look after the ball and will not go away. You know, will not go away, disappear. I think he's quite basic for this game. This is a high-level tactical game. High-level. People that can roll off, move, move people about. And I don't think he's there yet for this game. Honestly, I don't. But there are other players that have done it before. Now, was this a game for, you know, 10 midfielders? You know what I mean? earlier everybody being that because that's what city tried to do and the way they dropped away it would have worked once they got their goal but hey look hindsight is wonderful thing and i may have gone that way if i'm honest with you against them yeah and there's just no substitute for sheer talent though because i mean you look at what erling holland does and he's he's at the absolute apex of the game right now but you know what we brought on a guy in kaiosaka just back hasn't played in, what are we talking, five weeks are we at?

1:01:12Something like that, six weeks. And he's sensational. Three of three on dribbles, has a shot, creates two chances, two completed crosses, was I think our top ball progressor by passing and carrying in the second half. And he didn't win us the game, but I think it's just a reminder that you can't tactic your way through talent. And you need players like Bakayo Saka on the pitch. You need players like Ebrecha Eze on the pitch. You need players like Kai Havertz will, I think, come in for a lot of credit in understanding what we've lost with not having his involvement on the pitch. And Odegaard, right?

1:01:48It's very easy to say you have a deep squad, but no matter how deep your squad is, your elite talent still gets you results. Because if Manchester City were one player shorter and that player was Erling Haaland, they do not get anything from that game. And when Bakaio came on, I think you saw it. And so, Paul, I think we owe it to Bakaio to give him a little bit of a section here, even though he wasn't the decisive influence in the game. Part of the reason I think City retreated so much and were pushed back so much is because we were much more effective on the ball in the second half, and he was a big, big part of that.

1:02:20He was a big, big part of it, and he played in about four different positions, pretty much finished the game off the left wing. And why did that happen? Was that tactic off the sideline, or was that just Bakaya deciding he wasn't going to get, you know, City with all of those defenders, what to have seven centre-backs by the time the match had progressed to the later stages, had like three guys over his side. Now, the encouraging thing was I thought Saka looked bright on it, like pretty much fully back. I'm sure there's another few percent to come. So, you know, while we were to go down, I was like, Well, the one thing is at least Saka looks like himself.

1:03:05So I guess we got that to go forward. But his compadre, Martinelli, was the guy who came with the surprise moment. So it's the two boys again doing stuff. They were, for me in many ways, the brightest part of that second half. Martinelli with his moment. Saka with just his overall level of play and the dangerous. like he can hurt you from inside right eight inside left eight left wing um and like when you have maduecki and you don't have odegaard that can be another option uh saka from the right eight you know we're surprised to see as a play there i do think michael is a little harsh at this point because he's missing some key pieces, but it's incumbent on him to use the full range of capabilities of the squad going forward.

1:04:01And that may be Saka not playing on the right wing because you've got Maduecki and there are other places Saka can hurt them. He looked really bright and was definitely kind of my consolation prize for the day till Martinelli gave me the real consolation. Yeah. Yeah. I, I think because we have a lot of good players now, you can forget how much you need your best players. And maybe this is just a bit of a reminder. You know, we go to Newcastle next weekend and that's not a good place to play for us. It's, it's a tough, tough environment, but I feel a lot better about our chances at Pekai Osaka starting that game.

1:04:42You know what I mean? so things like that do make a difference and Clive, I want to get to the goal and the celebration how that changed the feel at the Emirates I want to get your take on what the feel at the Emirates was because I've heard conflicting things but I think it's worth at least saying Mikel didn't just make the halftime changes he also made what I'd regard as the Arsene Wenger changes which is like we're just going to put all the attackers on and really go for it and Pep sunk deeper and look, I remember us going to City and nullifying a very good City team to keep the title in our hands a couple seasons ago and being vilified for it.

1:05:17Elliot:Still being vilified. Right. This is a game where Manchester City just kept taking off attackers and bringing on defenders and sitting as deep as they could and as deep as they could and getting pushed back and repelling us and repelling us. And like, I'm not saying we deserve a medal for a draw here. And I'm not saying congratulations, you win the you made city sink deep trophy because that it turns out is not a trophy. but I think you can go over the top with frustration and critique and lose the forest through the trees a bit of our ability to take a very good team and just put 11 of their defenders in their own box and push them back.

1:05:55Now you could say, well, they did that because they felt that there was just no chance we'd hurt them. I don't think that's the case, but you know, teach their own. What did you think of Mikel really, really going for it? The attackers for defenders and and putting everything out there in a move that I don't think we've always seen him be willing to

1:06:13Elliot:make well if he didn't make it he'd lose his job mate because because that you'd be dumb not to wouldn't you they'd stop playing they took off the center forward right so as soon as that happens you you know what's happening here right so they brought on that guy I think Gonzalez I think came on and um yeah he messed up on the goal and um he cost them so I'm sure he he's getting a bit of stick on the City podcast today. So yeah, he had to do it. I think in the Emirates area, I think it was, we were shocked to concede that goal. You know, I think I read Scott's note saying that's the first big chance we've conceded this season.

1:06:51Elliot:It's the first goal in open play we've conceded. And it sort of was like a bit of a shock because I was like, bloody hell, he's good. Him, slot, bottom corner, flipping hell. Then he started to play really well, you know, defensively as well. He was excellent. He was really engaged in this game. and then we were on top but I didn't feel we were going to score I thought Nani had a shot in the first half and I thought that looked good then it comes to our end we turn around we change and the volume goes up the volume goes up and it continually went up there was a flat spot in the second half I thought crikey and a few people around me decided to go but it wasn't many I can't even go on my own experience it wasn't many I looked around people were thinking surely we're going to get one Do you know what I mean?

1:07:36Elliot:It's like that, you know? But they were defending really, really well. And when the goal came and we scored, it was a major eruption. You know, it was a major eruption. It really was loud. There was a little moment just after we scored. The ball dropped to Eze again in the middle of midfield. And Martin Elliott gone again. Same run. And if Eze had just poked it through, I swear to God he scores. And I'd still be celebrating. right now you know um and so martin elliott worked it out mate his movement is really good i've got to praise him he was really really good and i think we that would have been a massive moment then the nerves sort of set in a little bit earlier that we might concede because they did switch on a bit you know and um can i ask you a question actually just super quick because and we'll get to the goal we'll talk about the goal more but was there frustration with how much we celebrated it because where we were with the kc gunners and fan fest and all that there was a bit of a get back to the center circle and we really took our moment to celebrate it but i think it was a celebration that almost felt happy with the draw when i think we needed to be more clued in that like it was quite it was quite again it was 93rd meet or something like that there was there is a clip today just to counter that with superman getting the ball out of the net and trying to get it back to the halfway line so though the players are celebrating there were some people trying to get back to the halfway line so i'm just going to say that and also paul earlier when you mentioned about the left-right with Saka thing.

1:09:04Elliot:There is a clip today of Albert Steubenberger, his name is, telling them to shop around. You know, so it's a tactical change. And I thought it was interesting. I didn't expect it, didn't know why. I haven't looked that closely yet. But again, we were doing different things, right? The sort of stuff that we've spoken about, haven't we? We've spoken about rotation. We've spoken about different players. We've spoken about swapping them. Was that when Ethan was on, so that Ethan could be on his stronger side? I'm not sure. I just saw it happen in the game. and maybe that was it earlier. If you've got a better reason than I have, great.

1:09:35Elliot:But I just think, I just thought, wow, what's Saka doing over here? And then I saw the clip today with him, literally from match today, I think they spotted it and said, you can see Stevenberg telling him to stop them around and that's what they did. So we tried our stuff. It wasn't enough for many people. I felt more so a missed opportunity than Anfield, if you see what I mean. Anfield, I can sort of excuse. I don't think we deserve to lose the game, but we did to a special goal. This one, I thought, no, guys, we are good. And they really did respect us. They decided to stink out the place to get that win.

1:10:12Elliot:But we're the ones that haven't got the medals. We haven't got the trophies. We haven't got any say to dictate any narratives. Pep can come and do an Arsenal at Arsenal, and it's okay because he's won everything in the game. So Liverpool can be frozen in the first half, be really to the lowest XG since I don't know when. It doesn't matter because they won the game and the league trophy is in their cabinet. So they can control the narratives. All the people that support them control narratives. Until we win, we have to take this. We have to take it. I'm going to ask you a question. And this is something that's in my mind rather than selections.

1:10:52Elliot:It's about our psychology. what message are we sending to everybody when we pick a team when we go out there so if we're not doing it by play style are we are we sending teams a message that we're still a little bit cautious and a little bit concerned by what you may do have we crossed that line yet is it just the first six game block which is really really hard we want to get ourselves into the league season i don't know but we can be questioned right now about our psychology and our mentality we've got to take it I don't like it but we've got to take it you know the fact we've got the best big six record of all the teams we've now lost one drawn one so hold on we've got to take that you know we bought a striker to beat the bottom six rather than the top six he struggled a bit in some of the big games so we've just got to take it at the moment we've got to take it the only thing that's going to change it is just win football matches similar to that Paul so uh you know clive talked a little bit about kind of how surprising this game was to play um but like one of the things john mckenzie the tactics guy off the athletic said was that pepe been drilling his team to play the arteta 4-4-2 out of possession and they just leaned super heavy into this they actually went one better with five of the back for much of this game.

1:12:16And like, when you think about it, you know, as Clive's talking about Steubenberg with Saka, what was that about? That was about, I guess, a lefty who can put in a dynamite, not just a cross, the cross. The one that has the whip that drops in there. So like, how are we going to win this game with them actually playing a really out of, really strong out of possession game where we're like starting to feel it's just not going to come. It's going to be a corner set piece. Well, Donna Rama seemed to have the antidote to that. Quality crosses, but they had enough tall guys in the middle there. The third thing you hit them with is the ball over the top, which has not been our signature move.

1:13:00And what was it? It was a Trent Alexander-Arnold quality cross, or quality drop ball, perfectly hit, perfectly hit, for Martinelli to make that run. and like Eze is so deep. It's not a TAA side of the pitch, but it's that ball you don't see coming because he's so deep. You're not going to get it over that back line and into the perfect spot, but he does. He almost doesn't see Martinelli, but he's got such quickness and intelligence. Last moment, he's like, oh, there he goes. Hits it. Perfect onto Martinelli. Kind of in the end, it was the only way we were going to beat them was that ball over the top, which has not been our signature for a number of seasons.

1:13:46Yeah, we took advantage of a change of possession where they had just crept up a little bit. I think as a seeing Martinelli is almost more impressive than the ball itself because it's a run from a little bit deeper on the other side of the pitch. He sees it. Clive, that finish is insane. I mean, it was not fun facing Donnarumma again. And the thing about Donnarumma, he may not be great with his feet, but he nullified the way that we often get back into games, which is set pieces and things like that, because he commands the box in such a way that those Declan Rice corners that go under the bar, that's meat and drink for Donnerum.

1:14:22You know what I mean? So it's just, it nullified one of our big areas of being able to uniquely challenge teams to chip him from there in that way. I mean, it's extraordinary. And the week that Martinelli has had is just a reminder that when your team gets better overall, suddenly the player who maybe wasn't at the level to start games is an absolutely sensational player to finish games. And he's won us two games in a week. Well, he didn't win us this game, but he's saved this one. And that is out of the absolute top drawer. It's just a phenomenal bit of play between Eze and Martinelli, and what a finish, you know?

1:14:59Elliot:Yeah, I thought on the set pieces first, I think Donnarumma actually has normally quite weak at those things. but he wasn't on this day he just helped it on some of those touches weren't great but he's not going to catch anything he's going to help it on and he's massive and he gives them security you could feel it in the ground mate you could feel it they were comfortable with him come on we'd all select James Trafford wouldn't we he's a special goalkeeper but we know he's got a mistake in him Donnarumma at the Emirates mate I thought here we go here we go they just stuck some aura in their goal You know, it's as simple as that.

1:15:36Elliot:And you could sense it. And I know the way Martin Eddy scored the goal, probably the only way you're going to beat him was just by lobbing it over his head. And on the goal, it's probably his error. He froze. He didn't go back quickly enough. He didn't come forward. He froze and he made the finish the only thing to do. However, what I would say, to do that under pressure, running at that angle, to get there, to stay ahead of his defender coming back from his guardiol, and then to go across him was just perfection. Honestly, mate, it was a, I thought there were two massively high quality goals in this game.

1:16:12Elliot:You know, you just got to take it. You got to take it on the chin. And the praise has got to be as loud as the criticism. He has really changed our week. You know, he really has and given us a chance to look forward from here on in and reset for next Sunday. He's changed our week. He's been fantastic. His attitude is fantastic. I interviewed him afterwards. he looked bright-eyed ready to go you can see why the manager loves him you know to have a player like that in your group that doesn't salt doesn't moan just tries to get on with it the next thing the next thing and it was a message to myself we young people there's always time for him to come back there is he's only 23 24 he's played a lot of football there's always time for him to come back.

1:16:58Elliot:Not every game will suit him, but he showed, he picked their pocket right. And he's done it a lot recently, Elliot. He's runs in behind, you know, so fair play to him. But you know what? There's no time for managers and clubs to wait for players. So we did the right thing. We bought Nani Medueke, we bought Eberecha Eze, we made our squad stronger. Martinelli has a new role in the squad. And what happens with that new role? He wins us a game in Spain and he saves us a game against City in this new role where, notice, he's running in behind against tired legs in the space that might not have been there earlier.

1:17:30So everybody wins because the club gets better, the player gets put in a position where maybe the bright hot spotlight is dimmed just slightly, and the role allows him to rediscover his confidence and his quality, and everybody wins in that scenario. Paul, it's a point we absolutely had to get. I think people were very split on it. There were some people that were celebrating it and relieved. There were people that felt we dominated City in a way you never see them dominated. All things true. There are people that feel it was a missed opportunity, that the manager was being stubborn with his lineup, or was more concerned about losing it than winning it.

1:18:08And these are all various opinions that I think have merit. I'm not going to dismiss any of them. I mean, look, there's always hysterical opinions. Well, if he hadn't won, he should go, that kind of stuff. You can dismiss that. But the frustrations about lineups, the frustration about the approach, some of that I think has real merit, as we've discussed in this pod, and the credit about the changes and the way we pushed them back and we were able to recover the game, also with merit. I just think now there's an interesting inflection point for Mikel. Can you go to St. James' Park? Can you go up to Newcastle and start as A in midfield?

1:18:46Can you go up to St. James' Park and start, you know, as A and Odegaard in midfield, if they're both fit. You know, here's what I would say to Mikel. What is the worst thing that happens if you just play Rice as an Odegaard? And by the way, I'm not saying drop Zuby because he's great, but Zuby, my point is, what is the worst thing that happens? You have the two best center backs in the league, the best center back pairing in the world. You have the best right back defensively, I think, currently playing. You have Declan Rice, who nobody will get past if there's space to run into. What's the worst thing that happens If you give Saka and Martinelli and Jokeres as A and Odegaard, you concede a goal, maybe a score three.

1:19:29So again, I'm not saying that's how we should play. That is my point. My point is, do we see an inflection point now where Mikel maybe reconfigures a little bit to have the players out there from the start who have the skill on the ball to win him a game in those high leverage moments? Or is it a doubling down? Do you think the confidence and the faith in the way we dominate, the way we win duels, the way we control games, is that the way forward and we should be prepared for it to be the way forward? What do you think? So I think the biggest adjustment he needs to make and like, this is way beyond my pay grade and you should stop me saying this right now because like for this kind of discussion, I'm an idiot.

1:20:16But here's what I think he is getting wrong. He has leaned into Calafiore as basically our left eight, playing Declan Rice super deep as a second pivot to leave all that space for Calafiore. And what he needs to do is play Declan Rice as the left eight and leave Zubimendi. I remember talking about it over the summer. One of the great things with Zubimendi is he allows us to push forward with our left and right eight that we can lean into a more attacking team. And if you have Rice further pushed up, play Calafiore from left back and use him as the surprise option, not the guy they expect to be standing in that area.

1:20:59He's not the greatest left eight if he's static. He's great running into that space if Rice occasionally vacates it. But push Rice up the pitch. Now you have a choice about, because look, Marina's doing it on his own. He's left and right eight. he's the guy upfield who's supposed to make something happen and he's not that he can do a few good things in a game and he did a few good things in this game but it's not enough if you have rice then it's less of an exposure that it's just marino how good a left eye eight was rice towards the end of last season he was making stuff happen he was pushing you know he was not a player you could you could ignore in that area of the pitch and then you vacate it and calafiore comes in with some sizzle and like they're not expecting him he's the free man he's the surprise he can hurt you but as it is he's the guy you expect to be in that spot and the surprise factor isn't there so now you can play marino on the right uh but with rice up there you can also play whoever you want, Eze, you can play Nguyeneri in that right spot, but I think we, like, I think it's a it sounded great in principle, I think Arteta loves the idea of this Calafiore role of stepping into midfield, but that's what it should be, stepping into midfield, not being in midfield, so that's I think like, I struggle with what we're doing on the left-hand side, and we now have good players, use them but I've yet to see something that really works on the left-hand side over 90 minutes where it's like, oh yeah, now it's clicking, we've got it going, it's all going on here.

1:22:42We're really controlling the game from both sides. I think the left eight still has a big question mark about seeing it function in a way that hurts teams and I don't think Calafiore statically in the left eight position is it. It's interesting because Calafiore is such a talented player who can give us so much chaos and creativity when used as a chaos agent. I agree, Paul, but if he's just going to go up and stand there in the left half space and that's where the position he's going to occupy and Rice is going to drop deeper, is that the best use of the characteristics your players have? I don't know.

1:23:18I mean, Clive, I don't think that we're going to see Marino, Rice, and Zubamendi all the time. I do think we're going to see it again. I don't think Mikel is picking it to be stubborn and I don't think he thinks it's just functional. I think he thinks it's a good midfield. But when Kai is back, when Odegaard is back, we're going to see all different kinds of midfields. And maybe, maybe Mikel gave something away in this game. Maybe I've been wrong. And Mikel does not see Ebrecha Eze as our left wing. Maybe the reason he started Leo is he sees Leo and Martinelli as left wing and he doesn't really see Eze as that.

1:23:52And he does see him as a midfielder. And that's when he will play. He will play in midfield. I don't know, but there's going to obviously just be a lot of scrutiny on that now. and I wonder what you think we're going to see evolving with that aspect of the pitch, that part of the pitch.

1:24:05Elliot:Too many games. I'm not sure what's going to evolve. Too many games. Yeah. You know, in this game, we lost our right winger at halftime. He brought on somebody and he decided that Marino wasn't it for the second half, given how the game was panning out, and he made that decision. And another game could be another decision. I'm quite liking the variations of some of the things that we're doing. I'm not sure we got quite enough ingenuity on the pitch so that's the thing that's concerning me at some time but we ended up the game with plenty of it I disagree slightly with Paul around Cannon Fury but I look at it closer I felt in this game we also have to wipe our minds from positions per se because they weren't there so they dropped away so we were standing where we liked do you know what I mean?

1:24:53Elliot:Ringing around them creating a ring so they can't get back out so it wasn't normal i i think if you look at rice's heat map mate he was everywhere i don't know where he was playing look at that i don't know where he was playing but i quite like that was that more in the second half though clive yeah maybe feel the same in the first half i think um probably the best bit to watch paul was probably the first nine minutes before they scored you know and where where was california when they scored he's on the left wing almost wasn't he you know and um and we looked all right in that situation i quite like declan rice being a little bit deeper but deciding to switch the point of the attack also when he wants to go he can see it in front of him what i don't like i'll be honest with you i don't like when he's too high too early and waiting for the ball to come to him now there were periods last year he was getting 40 touches a game and we're thinking 100 million pound 40 touches a game and all our defenders are getting 80 90 and in this game you'll have 100 touches i know that's probably not a fair reflection because this game was very possession heavy but i want him having those touches i want him having the shaker level touches in the middle of our midfield i want him being on the ball you know if that means he's got to start deeper so he's out of contact so he can arrive into areas i i'm i that's the thing i like to see i i like those two together zubmendi and rice i think they offer some really good variation i thought supermanly was way higher in this game got into the box challenging for headers it's just not what we're used to seeing and so just have to open your minds up say which we are trying to be different but what we are doing is saying we need to do this and have him here and have him there and that's based on last year right with the injuries we're playing a lot of new players at the same time we are trying to be different and we're trying to integrate and while that's happening I'm not sure how we're playing I sent a post out today saying I'm just trying to learn I'm not sure yet you know if you're sure and everyone listening if you're sure what we're doing on a week-to-week basis well I'm not you know because it changes based on the opposition on the game state on what we're trying to achieve and what they're allowing us to do you know what's been a consistent has been Nonny Manweke's threat but you know but it was a different threat when Saka was playing do you see what I mean and so we've got to wait to all the key pillars are back to see if we have a defined style i don't see it yet earlier i don't i see a slight change in our center mid it's a little bit more two plus a one and a half plus one if that makes sense not quite a seesaw type thing where one goes up one goes back and a number 810 that's predominantly on the right hand side because califure is in on left hand side and we're just playing a box like we always do do you know i mean and so it's just i just i just want to wait because at the moment i'm not sure yet that's where i am if you're sure then please feel free to slap me no i i think that arson wanger would often say that if you sign too many players in a single transfer window if you make too many changes you can disrupt the cohesion and the evolution of a team and and it can be difficult to assimilate and integrate all those new pieces and the injuries have made that i think be felt more keenly because instead of being able to start and say you know what we'll use saka and we'll use kai and we'll use odegaard and we'll bring Yokozor in and you know we'll we'll start to slowly bring these pieces in it's been Zuby and Yokozor and Nani right and Eze and new players basically from day one as key players dropped out we've lost Odegaard in games twice we've played our biggest games Liverpool and City without Saka and Odegaard without Kai Havertz without players that have played those games and know those environments.

1:28:57Jokras' first taste of the Premier League, go start at Anfield. Go start against City. Nani Medueke, welcome to Arsenal. Go start at Anfield. Go start against City, right? Zubamendi, are we going to give you Odegaard in there to help you figure it out? Are we going to have that dynamic so that Jokras has a more established eight with it? No, he's going to be withdrawn. And these can sound like excuses, but what I'm saying is any evaluation we have of our evolution or what we're trying to do is undermined by the fact that we've had to take out so many load-bearing walls, right? It would be one thing to try to integrate Nani and Jokras and Eze and Zubomendy, right?

1:29:37All in one go. But to do that without Kai and Odegaard and Saka, you know, and have to do it without three of the most important pieces of the team, that just makes it that much harder. Because you're not saying, well, we'll drop one player and we'll just bring Eze in this game, but we'll have Odegaard and Kai and Saka. We'll just bring Jokeras in this game, but we'll have Odegaard and Saka and Leo or Martina. No, we haven't been able to do that. And so it is an evolution that is incomplete because we haven't seen what it looks like when the players that have been load-bearing walls for two or three seasons are available.

1:30:16Final, final thing, just super quick. Clive, I'll stay with you for a second and Paul, I'll get you on this too. I don't care about the result against Port Vale anyone who knows me knows that I frustratingly don't care what we do in the League Cup and would be perfectly happy to be out of it at the earliest possible hurdle because I think that a double-legged semi-final in January against the likes of City or Liverpool or Chelsea in this Cup has derailed our season in the past and has the potential to derail seasons I would love Liverpool to play Chelsea in the semi-final of the League Cup in January be my guest have at it.

1:30:50Everybody wants a trophy. I want a trophy. I don't think winning this trophy will change how people evaluate the season. So you can rage at me. Send me the email. Tell me I'm an idiot for this. That we shouldn't look down our nose at any trophy. Do I want to lose to Portville? Of course they don't want to lose to Portville. And we won't. But my point is Clive, if it's Max, if it's Ethan, if it's you know, any of those players, fine. But I think the thing that Mikel has to do is he has to also look and say, I've got first teamers. I've got Incappier didn't make the match day squad

1:31:17Elliot:He was injured. He was injured, would you believe it? Another player we lost for five minutes at the end of the game. I mean, we just can't get a break, man. Can't get a break. You would think, right, we're going to play a Miles Lewis Skelly. Yep, you're going to play a, there you go, there you go, well done. We're going to play a Miles Lewis Skelly in a game like this and we're going to play, I would have said an in Capier, but he's apparently not available. We're going to play a Mascara potentially. Like, Cliver, we're just going to have to go with a lot of first teamers because they, They need minutes in their life.

1:31:48Yeah, so Kepa needs to play.

1:31:49Elliot:That's number one. He needs to play. So Mosquera will play. Ben White was warming up on the sideline yesterday. He will play. So I'd be interested to see what happened. I think Saliba needs to game on his video earlier. He had the big shorts on. He needs to play. And so I think Big Gabby needs to sit big time. You know, Timber needs to sit. Califiori needs to, maybe a bench option, but we're sort of messing about there with him, aren't we? if Hinn-Cape's not available. In midfield, Miles, obviously, in midfield, Norgaz, he was warming up, you know, and he needs to play, you know, so, let's see what else we're doing there.

1:32:30Elliot:Ethan needs to play. Ethan, Max. Potentially Max. Does Bakayo take a half to get him sharp for the game at the weekend? You know, or these are the sort of things you've got to take on board. Martinelli, do we take his confidence, play for a half, share the game with Trossard? just trust our play falls nine give your crest a sit down do you know i mean because we need to freshen up for the muscle men at newcastle we need to freshen up for them it's important and so yeah let's see right i'm actually looking forward to it just because we're going to see different players you know that's the key different players and let's see what they're like i will have something else to man about and then we can say actually this plan needs to be in the first 11 for the weekend right so um but i think newcastle is important my eyes have been on it for a while now.

1:33:15Elliot:I think since Anfield, Newcastle, we've got to accumulate points there. And after this, after Newcastle, we do go into a stretch of games that we can do something. So hopefully get some players back, particularly attacking players like Kai, like Odegaard, to really show us what we can actually do. Yeah, home to Olympiacos, home to West Ham, away to Fulham, home to Atleti, home to Palace, at Burnley. aslavia prague sunderland home to spurs i mean you know all easy games not not a tough game in that at least i'm decent mate i'm afraid i'm kidding i'm a lot of jokes so i can make fun of spurs that was it you know guys we're over the 90 minute mark so paul uh regret to not get your port veil thoughts but we'll leave it there i think um i'll give you a quick league cup thought which is you got it completely wrong, Elliot.

1:34:12You missed the big picture. The most important thing is that everybody works to get this trophy for Ruben Amarin. That's what this is about. There you go. I knew you'd come up with the right answer somehow, Paul. All right, we're going to leave it there. We'll have maybe a rewatch tomorrow. We'll figure out what to slot in. I mean, once you get to these weeks where we play midweek, we have to be really thoughtful about what other stuff we want to do because we want to make sure we do all the stuff that you want to hear and see without missing the opportunity to do anything. So Port Vale's on Wednesday.

1:34:43That gives us a chance to do something. Tomorrow, we'll come up with it. If it's a rewatch, great. If it's not, it'll be something else. Clive, thanks.

1:34:49Elliot:Thank you very much. Paul, thank you. Woo-hoo! And, yeah, there you go. Got in there eventually. I would just say that these are the moments where people see the games differently. They just do. Some people connect more to the frustration of this one. Some people connect more to the relief. there's a little bit of everything and hopefully you know as always we create a respectful environment for one another to discuss it debate it and not get mad at each other for seeing it differently but explain why we see it the way we do that's i think that's what we do well and i hope that you will uh engage in that approach with us okay enough moralizing for me i apologize i'm not anyone's dad why i'm two people's dad that's it just all right we love you and we will talk to you after arsenal 10 portville

1:35:40Thank you.