Arsenal Season Predictions

32:38To be honest, I think he's been great, but I'd throw his name in there. dispute on that coming very soon because I have a different perspective on that. And so that I think will be interesting when we get to the goals scored and the starts stuff for individual players. Underperformer of the season is not a fun category to do, but look, the whole thing can't just be happy clappy. We're going to win the league and we're going to score 90 goals and SAC is going to be the player of the season. And here are the five other players of the season. So let's hit an underperformer of the season because it is something we've done every season and it's part of the process.

33:08So we're going to stick to the process. We're going to indeed trust the process. And we will get to our top scorer as well in a moment. So underperformer of the season, for me, I've gone back and forth on this. Originally, I had Marino. But I think Tim pointed out in our pre-pod chat why I can't pick him. Because my theory of the case there was I think he will have a struggle to access minutes. I just don't think he's going to start at striker a lot. And I think at that left eight role, Kai may play it ahead of him. Obviously, Deacon Rice is going to play it ahead of him. If we were to get an Eze, maybe he plays it a bit.

33:50So I'm not going to pick him. I'm going to pick one that you'll like even less, and that's Ben White. Let's be clear about underperformer this season. It's not, I think this player will have a bad season. It's a player I think could be in line for one. I think Timber made the right back position his last season. and I think he is a much better defender than Ben White. Ben White, I think, gives us a little extra something in the attacking third, but I have concerns developing about some of his defensive tendencies, both in 1v1 situations and sometimes in his recovery runs. And I just think we have enough attacking firepower and enough that's built on our structure and our control of games that I think if Ben White plays and looks vulnerable, it's going to mean that the manager just continues to lean on timber so if there were an underperformer this season and if i had to pick one which i do because it's the exercise i could see ben white drifting from prominence where he was just a couple seasons ago unthinkable as a player of the season candidate that he wouldn't be again to distance behind timber as the first option there Clive, what about you?

35:01Elliot:Oh, the Ben White one was interesting. And I nearly went from Reno myself. What I will say on Ben White, in just two seconds, I think he's almost played injured from his entire time here. Really good point. Yep, and Mikel's been clear on that, by the way. And he just does it. And he does really, really well until he couldn't do it anymore. He couldn't manage it. He has an operation. He took time to come back. He looks half-season, although I agree with you, what defensively there's work to do. but he's also had a big gap in the last season so i'm holding back on that one but i understand the thought process i went for martinelli and partly because i think there's gonna be a lot of scrutiny on that side regardless i think everyone looks at arsehole football club and they think defensively we're good goalkeeper's not bad you need a strike yeah lads well we've got one of those your right hand side's pretty slick left hand side's gonna have all the focus and right here as we record the left hand side is going to be the same as it was last season with maybe Nani Makaweke coming in but if we do that all the time Saka will not get the rest and so I think the eyes are going to be on Martinelli primarily he's a 23 year old young man on second contract decent wages and much like when Theo Walcott got his big pay rise we lost a bit of patience with him you know because he was under 140 and we expected a little bit more so I think the eyes are going to be on that position and I think the things that I concern me is just decision making and how he can develop his own game and what he did in that third or second goal against Bilbo is what I want to see more of you know and I looked at all his highlights last season and all the best ones when he was running into space not carrying the ball into space and so he just needs to do that you know but if he doesn't I fear there was a moment in this game the last game and it just epitomized everything we break in and we're transitioning he's got one man in front of him he drifts to his left foot and just kicks it past the near post no shot on target no save no good statistic nothing apart from four players behind them of your own team with their hands on their heads and that really stuck with me and your intention is one thing, but poor execution with not the most bravest intention is a problem.

37:24Elliot:I'd much rather him chop inside his right foot and have the shot blocked because your intention is more solid for me. Do you know what I mean? So that's what I'm looking at, really. And I hope, I don't like saying those words, but I really want him to get better because I think it's in there, but I just don't know why it's not happening. Yeah. I think that is a choice that a lot of people will be nodding along to. I have to confess, you guys filled out your spreadsheet before I did, and I didn't want to make underperformer of the season just to beat up on the same guy in all three. You guys both picked players that were pretty high on my list to pick.

37:57As I mentioned, the Marino one, another one that was in the group for me as a maybe tickling the back of my mind is David Raya. How will we respond to some additional competition this season? Maybe had an uneven summer. The reason I'm not gone for him is simple. I don't want to even speak it into existence because if David Raya is our underperformer of the season, I don't think we can achieve our goals. So I don't even want to speak it into existence. So I confess I've gone for one that probably wasn't the highest on my list, but either through fear of voicing an opinion or through not wanting to echo your own sentiments.

38:28It's a good conversation earlier.

38:28Elliot:It's a good conversation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, where are the pressure points? Where are the stress points? If it doesn't work out, where might it not work out? Tim, you've gone for Leo Troussard. I said to you before the pod, one of the reasons I didn't pick him is just I'm not convinced he'll be at Arsenal. but not being at Arsenal would make him a clear Arsenal underperformer. So do you have another argument for it? Yeah, this one's just so difficult to read because in 2023, none of us would have picked Martinelli, but it probably was him. And this time last year, none of us were picking Odegaard and it was probably him last year, wasn't it?

39:01There's just so many things that go into this because all our players are pretty good, I think. So there's so much that goes into it, like quite a lot of it fitness, you know players lose form for all sorts of reasons I just went for Trossard because and I say this as someone who is higher on him last season than most people thought he had a really really good season last year and that kind of got lost in the weeds a little bit but it's again it's not a complicated calculus he's got one year left on his deal he's over 30 which as we all know means he's now completely and utterly useless forevermore and yeah I could have picked Martinelli as well.

39:43We're going to come on to this later. I think Madueke is going to take that left wing slot so I think really you could choose either one of Trossard or Martinelli. Other than that it's the actual answer is probably going to be a total wild card to be honest someone that none of us expect because that's the way of these things when you have a good squad. All right let's do a quick hitter top score I don't think it needs a Huge amount of analysis. Tim, I'll stay with you. Yeah, I've gone for Saka. I'm assuming he's going to take the penalties as well, although Giocares might have something to say about that, but it depends how much he plays.

40:14We're doing top score non-penalty, to be fair. Ah, okay. Then definitely Saka. I still think we'll largely have a model of sharing goals around, and I think Giocares will do well within that, but no, I still think Saka. Clive?

40:32Elliot:Yep, Saka for me. breakout player who grew beers everything I just think I may be putting a bit much on him right but I can't go I can't go against my gut when what I saw in the last two games and what he was trying to do I just I loved it I really did like it I'm going to break from the group here and go Jokras but I'm not going to expand on that because I want to expand on it when we do the starts and goals stuff so we're going to do starts and goals for different players appearances for certain players we still have to do our Premier League top five Champions League finish. But before we hit the brands, let's get one more in and we'll sneak in our wildest prediction.

41:09I want to say these aren't actually that wild. We could have gone wilder. I'll start with mine. Arsenal lead the league in penalties. Look, we are usually first or second or thereabouts in field tilt, in box touches. You can only be near the top in box touches for so long before eventually they got to give you penalties when you go over. Right? I think a fit Saka means more penalty opportunities. I think a hard-running center forward who drives towards the box and is very physical and invites physical challenges means more penalties. I think if Nani Madweke is more direct, right, more penalties.

41:47I just think in general, and I realize there are people who are going to be screaming if you think the PJMOL is going to give us penalties. You know what? Here's the thing I'm least excited to do. Talk about refs again. So maybe just maybe we won't have to. And when you hear tim's prediction between the two of us you're going to absolutely your heads are going to burst and you're not going to be able to ever listen to another podcast because you have a burst open head but i'll say arsenal lead the league in penalties that's my wildest prediction tim yours is aligned to that and and if the two of us are right we're walking the league what is your prediction mine's going to be out of the out of the window at 5 p.m on sunday i'm saying i'm saying arsenal no red cards in the premier league because i think we'll be in slightly better shape I do think that Arteta and his staff are reflective and they will look at the red cards from last season and they will say what can we control within these and don't get me wrong they weren't all like Lewis Skelly against West Ham that's a that's absolute red card um you know like let's not get caught as much let's not be in game states where it's like this let's have a few more like two three nils where we're we're doing rondos in our own half and you know the crowd are on their phones um so i'm going to say no red cards just for the for the sake of it if you want like a slightly wilder premier league prediction i think there's going to be another legal issue somewhere either nottingham forest will legally challenge the premier league over something maybe a decision or something or i think all this psr stuff and i'm not going to mention any names because that would get me in trouble.

43:22I smell crime, Elliot. I smell dodgy stuff. I think there's going to be another Manchester City style financial, I don't want to call it a scandal, but a case that's going to come up. I think, yeah, I think we're just in that era where there's stuff happening. Look, there's a reason we're all football fans and it's for the litigation, right? That's why we're all here. Litigation, that's the word. There will be litigation of some flavor in the premier league. I loved that movie, by the way, really good. There will be litigation. You remember that one? What was his name was in it? Oh gosh, what was his name?

43:59Who was the star of that movie? It's not actually called that. It was a Paul Thomas Anderson movie starring Daniel Day-Lewis. There will be blood, right? That's the actual movie from people screaming it into their listening devices. And before we hit brands, Clive, what's your wildest prediction? If you're sticking with what's in the spreadsheet, I'm going to call it your tamest prediction.

44:19Elliot:Well, I didn't get this question right. Because I obviously, because now Tim's talking about the financial stuff, I think that's a really good one. And I think, you know, the Man City charges him. Let's talk about that. Maybe the Wilds will be a few minutes. Just so we're clear, Paul went with aliens are real and they are with us and this will become commonly known next season. So yours by comparison. Well, I started off saying that I just thought it was a diction thing, sensible one. So I started off by saying I think Wolves and Brentford would struggle this season. I think it's going to be a challenge.

44:47Elliot:So Tim was looking for the one team to maybe pop out of the group and disappear. I think he could be one of those two with a promoted team maybe staying up. And then I started to think about the Man City charges, but I didn't write it. And then I started to think about, I don't think it's that wild that Max Dalmore would break the Premier League youngest player record this season. Let's go for that. I'm going to type that. I'm replacing what you've written. I think I've already done it, but I'm not sure if it's on your show. break the Premier League appearance record? He'll be the youngest player to play in the Premier League to start again.

45:26Which is currently Ethan, so I think

45:28Elliot:he'll break it. I love it. Okay, perfect. So let's do this. We now have to get in all the player stuff, plus our Champions League finish and our Premier League top finish. Usually when we get the player stuff, by the way, we do a little bit more rapid fire. So how many goals will this guy get? How many appearances? So on and so forth. So we will speed things up a bit. But I do have to tell you about brands before we do that because if we get a new season going and I haven't told you about brands, then you're just going to be like, you're already letting me down. And as you know, I'm never going to let you down.

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49:56Elliot:Indeed. Is that enough? Okay. Now, we move on and we move on to Champions League finish. Clive, where do you have us finishing the champions league are we talking about how far we go in the champions league uh no what's the final score when we win the final okay i'm kidding how far are we going in the champions i said semi-final i i think semi-fine i think fine enough i think lil paul will focus on the champions league and um and i think also when it depends where we are i think you're going to see a divergence in that time of the year when people are going to say okay i need a focus on this you know much like we did and we dropped some league points and Liverpool were able to focus year before City got chinned in the quarterfinal didn't they and it allowed them to focus when we got chinned in the quarterfinal but normally they'd go a bit further and they kept their focus in the league and we lost it by two points so I think we're going to go semi-final because we're used to it and then hopefully we'll just roll down and be able to win the league I love it uh Tim you yeah I put semi-final on the spreadsheet again it's one of those could win the whole thing could go out in the quarterfinal but I agree with Clark I think both Liverpool and Man City will be annoying Man City more so will be annoyed by what happened to them last season in the Champions League and I could see Liverpool focusing in it I could really see City at least trying to do better because throughout the whole campaign in Europe they were absolute rubbish and I think they'll maybe focus a little bit on putting that right so and you know I know we had a discussion before this that was like well actually if it's quarter final maybe that makes it more likely that we'll win the league but I just think with Europe now I really think the English teams are going to I hesitate to say dominate because the Spanish teams will still be strong but we saw what happened last year like all of the European competitions having English teams in the final could be a thing that happens again so I kind I'm not sure it's going to be as clear-cut like you know you're in the semi-final like I think there's a world where Liverpool Man City and Arsenal all in the Champions League semi-final all competing for the league so like that could happen so I'm putting semi-final but I'm I'm kind of splitting hairs really equally we could finish third and win the Champions League I could see that happening as well?

52:22I think it is one of these things that it has just gotten too hard to win both. It can be done, but I don't see it being done. If you think about how we got past Real Madrid and gave PSG such a tough time, despite all the absences and injuries, it's because we kind of sacked off the league and those were really bad league performances. No one thinks about them anymore because no one really cared about them at the time. I think if you look at the Bayern Munich Champions League tie two seasons ago. That performance suffered because of the output in the league to try to win the league. And the Villa loss, a lot of people don't really remember how the Villa loss went down.

52:58We were dominant in the first half. You know what we did in the second half? Go look at the substitutions. We made very strange substitutions in that game that we would never have made normally with an eye towards the second leg of Bayern. We wound up losing that game and not winning the title. I just don't know that we are ready and equipped to win both. I think we can win the Champions League. I think we can win the Premier League. I don't think we can win either if we're focused squarely on both. So I've gone for quarterfinal in the Champions League, and I know that sounds a bit negative, but what I will say is I think not going far in the Champions League may become the springboard that allows us to really be fit and firing at the most important point of the league season, and that's how we go on and win the league.

53:45if it were the case that we were not quite in the title race come March and April then I think we could go on and win the Champions League but I've gone for us winning the league and I think it may require a bit of a disappointment in cups so that we can really have the energy and the fitness to go far in the league so we'll see let's do our Premier League top 5 finish who will be the top 5 finishers in the Premier League and I think the big three are pretty easy. All of us have gone for some version of Arsenal, Liverpool, and City. I'll give you my five. I've gone Arsenal, Liverpool, City, Chelsea, and Newcastle.

54:22Newcastle have had a bad summer but I do sort of think that if Izak stays and I don't know that he will but if he does stay, they still have a pretty good team. They add Jacob Ramsey and they could be fine. The issue I have with Newcastle is just Champions League is going to be tough for them and when they were in the Champions League previously it really held them back. the problem is I don't know who else to put in there I don't think there's a clear option so I sort of punted on them there uh Tim you've gone Arsenal Liverpool City Chelsea also but you've gone Villa you want to just quickly touch on that yeah I think Villa I I just think they look settled I know they haven't been able to add much but they'll still do business because if they're selling Jacob Ramsey it's to to raise money for something or someone else but I I think they just look quite settled actually and actually I don't think that's a bad thing for them you could convince me Newcastle as well those are the two teams I was kind of I was looking at but yeah I just think Villa have got a good talent level I think they're going to be able to go through the Europa League group stages without too many without too many troubles as well whereas Newcastle are going to be in the Champions League so yeah I think that fifth spot is pretty open but I've just I've just come for Villa.

55:33All right, Clive, you are a football thinking machine, basically. You are a computer designed to understand football. I think you need to reinstall your software because you've gone for Arsenal City, Liverpool. And then there's some letters in here that I think were typed out incorrectly. It says MUFC and then CFC. So for the fourth place team, you have something called MUFC. Do you want me to retype that? Because I think there was a type.

56:00Elliot:No, no, no. I played about with Chelsea they put Villa fifth and I thought you know what let's just have a chat should be about Manchester United because I think they're I think they're still going to buy people so I'm projected really you think they get Balaba because that would be a needle mover well for me you know I know they haven't done much at the back door and they've still got a goalkeeper that throws it in but I don't think they're finished I think they're going to buy I think they're going for it and I also think they're not in Europe and it makes a big difference your league performance it really does you know so they're going to be sitting there once a week job i mean newcastle got into champions league that way since spurs got close or going to champions league that way by not having any europe it makes a massive difference and um and so they're a team on the rebound and i also one of my other predictions i do think back three systems are going to make a return a lot more you know and and i think it could they could be in vogue all of a sudden if they get it right you know and um despite their woefulness in their dressing room and they've got a new training ground.

57:02Elliot:I think they're trying to have a go at the culture and there's something about Manchester United and they remember who they are eventually. And so I think they're going to have a bounce back and I don't like saying those words, but if you look at the league, you have a pretty good guess where people are going to be. We know it's going to be competitive. there's a couple of teams that need to move to meet the needle in spurs and manchester united we saw what spurs and how they're going to approach it this week and what their strategies about organization defensive organization much more work rate and then then bits and pieces up front do the work for them they're going to be competitive a lot of games i think manchester united be as competitive but they want to think about so they're going to have a lot more training ground time so it's my it's my big projection really but i don't really want to i don't want to go to die on the wall for it i just um i look at the league i think what's the biggest opportunity for improvement and i think they could be it whereas chelsea yeah chelsea i think they've got stability issues at the back you know and real well injury doesn't help yeah doesn't help they've got to bring in different people there they're a mix and match in the wide areas and the goalkeeper definitely throws it in so you can't do anything unless you defend the back door So I think between the two of them, really, fourth or fifth, it may bother me.

58:24So we have a section at the very end, which is where will United and Spurs finish. I'll simply say this. I think we'll do that section, but I have United bottom half and Amarim being sacked in the middle of the season. I'll explain that more when we get to it. But I thought you made a cogent argument for it, Clive. Okay, now we're going to get into the individual stuff. And this can be a little more rapid fire, so I think maybe give a line or two on what you think about these. We're going to start with Yoko Ress. Victor Yoko Ress starts. Clive, what do you got?

58:55Elliot:18. Do I say 18? 18? 18. That's it. Just a guess. Just sort of a full-time share with Kai, you think? I think so. But if he scores a hat-trick on Sunday, and then I'll make that 28. All right. Tim? Yeah. Yeah, did I go around 15 or something like that? 15 is what you've gone for, yeah? 15. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think he'll start like cup games, Champions League games. I think there'll be plenty of football for him, but total thumb in the air. Just thumb in the air. Just thumb in the air. Just thumb in the air. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think, yeah, he'll do okay for starts overall. So I think in the predictions, there comes a moment where you have to take a perspective on the season and you have to stick with it.

59:44You can't just try to stay in the center lane. And when it comes to Jokeres, I've decided to take a perspective. We have not really bought a striker since Gabriel Jesus, and we saw half a season of it. So, Kai Havertz, whatever you want to say about him, was bought to play a number of roles, but he wasn't our striker signing. He wasn't bought to solve that position. And here's the perspective I'm going to take. What if Victor Jokeres was bought to be our striker? What if it's not that complicated? What if Berta said, this is the most prolific goal scorer in Europe and he's going to score a shit ton of goals for you and that's why he was bought?

1:00:22So, I'm going to take the perspective that actually don't overthink it. that Kai is fantastic. He will play a lot. He will have lots of roles to play. But Victor Jokras is our striker, and he's going to play striker. I have him for 31 Premier League starts as the undisputed striker for Arsenal Football Club, which is what he was bought to be. And so now we go to Victor Jokras goals, and I have him on 24 goals. Everybody who's played striker for Arsenal has scored goals. Mikel Marino has scored goals. Kai Havertz in half a season at striker scored goals. But we haven't had a proper striker play a whole season at Arsenal since, I guess, Aubameyang maybe?

1:00:58And he was golden boot twice in his dotage, in the waning years of his career, in an Arsenal that wasn't very good. Well, this is a real striker in an Arsenal that is very good, with a Zubomendi who can get the ball forward faster when we transition, to a team that is ready to start passing forward more, that can be more direct, with a healthy elite Saka who will find him in the box. And I think he can score a lot of goals. I do think he will be our penalty taker. So in that 24, I have some penalties. I had initially written 26 and I was thinking of sticking with it, but I've downgraded it just to 24.

1:01:30I think Jokers is our striker. I think he's effective and I think he scores a lot of goals because everyone I've seen play that position has. And there hasn't been anyone who's as much of a striker as he is. So Clive, you've gone for 18, which in 18 starts, let me tell you something. He's going to start more than 18 if

1:01:48Elliot:he's won a goal a game talk to me about it yeah uh he said yeah i'm i i just think um i think i just think he's scored by that no i was gonna say 15 actually i don't know why i went for 18. you want me to put 15? yeah 15. okay 15. i think that's all we need from him yeah so um but um and i could have said 20 starts. do you think he'll take penalties when he's on the pitch because i do i i think i look at if you think we had 58 games last season and we're talking about 18-20 Premier League starts. So that leaves a lot of other games that he'll get opportunities to play. And so I just look at it that way around.

1:02:25Elliot:I don't sort of divide it up into Premier League. When we go past those first three games of the season, we're into Europe. We're into it every three days. And last year, we went from every three days right into December. You know, so football changed, right? I just don't think you need to start every single game. You know, so I don't think it's possible. I don't think we see the best of either of the strikers if we do that. You know, I think even in the last game we saw, you have the ability to bring on somebody to then run through the team just felt, it was shocking. It was shocking to sit in there watching it happen.

1:03:02Elliot:I just couldn't believe it. And we've sat in here for ages and talked about, we need the ability to power up. Great podcast words. But then when we have a chance to do it, we don't want to do it. We know we want the same player to start all the time. well if you do that the other player will not be able to play football i guarantee you that's enough he will not be able to run will not be able to move you will just not be able to reach the levels that we expect them to to reach you know so um so i look at it more collective way although your argument is very very powerful for the jockey restarts and i was as i was listening i went that makes a lot of sense that does but then i think football is demanding i think football demanding something else yeah i i tend to be guilty clive of looking at things i've seen before and thinking that's how things will be again and that that's not always how the world works i just think when i look at teams that win stuff and teams that are good there's some rotation i think it's rarely the case that critical positions are are fully shared you know so i think someone's going to win this job and have the lion's share of it um if we were on the man city vision podcast and we'd be talking about who's going to start our first nightmare fuel and we'd be saying is harland going to start how many games going to start versus marmouche right everyone would just go harland's going to start every game 35 yeah do you see what i mean and so i said your argument is a really good one i just think the way we look at football is slightly different but mate if he starts sticking top corner trust me he's going to play 30 games similar as that so yeah and like like i said if kai starts 31 games that could also be a home run for us so it's a really tough one to nail my colors to the mask because kai could get off to a fast start and never give up the position it's just going to be one of those where i think one of them maybe makes that position is uh you have 11 goals tim you want to expand on that yeah i i'm i'm more of clive's thinking i think i think a lot of the things we've done this summer suggests they want a more shared model in terms of players for the transfer business we've done the kind of the pressing and all of that I just have a feeling that Giocares is going to be a bit more of a game state type player you know and he'll be really good in that game state but I also still think and I don't have this a hundred thousand percent mapped out I still think Kai Havertz is going to start most games I think he's a really really crucial piece of how we play and I think Arteta is going to want him on the pitch be it in midfield right eight up front I think he'll start all over the place basically but yeah I like I'm looking at what Chelsea are doing with Joao Pedro and Liam De Lappe and it really looks to me like they're moving to a game state shared model really and I think the teams that maybe don't have like Haaland or someone like that probably will go more that way.

1:05:53Maybe even Liverpool will. They're probably going to have Eketike and Izak. There's a good chance that that's going to happen. So I do think, as Clive does, that football is moving that way a bit. And I think Arsenal maybe learned some lessons from last season. Yeah, entirely possible. And that may be the best way to do it. So we'll go to Kai's starts. I have 14 for Kai. I want to be clear. I think Kai's going to play a shit ton. I think he'll play a lot of the league stage, Champions League. I think he'll be a big Champions League performer for us. I think he'll play the Cups. I think he'll start 14 times in the Premier League.

1:06:27But I think he will also, there'll be 4-4-2 times where he comes on and plays alongside Jokeres. Not in a pure 4-4-2, but you know, in certain shapes we'll have two up front. I think there'll be times where he plays that left eight role or the right eight role if Odegaard needs to sit down. So I think he'll have a lot of playing time. But I think he will move into more of the role that might have been envisioned for him when he was originally brought in, as opposed to just being our striker. and so I have him for eight goals this season um maybe a few assists some cup goals I think Kai does a lot of valuable things and I think he will still be hugely valuable but I've gone for 14 starts and eight goals Tim how many starts and goals for Kai you've gone 32 and 10 you want to explain that yeah yeah I just think I just think he's a player that Arteta really likes and that really makes our system work wherever he plays um i can see him i you know i could see him in that right eight role i could see him in that left eight role again i can't it's just one of those things that again like you can't really predict at the beginning of us well making a prediction but like i don't know how it's going to happen i'm not going to pretend it's like i think this guy's going to come out the team and he's going to go in but i i just i just don't see a world where kai havertz is anything other than a really really crucial player and i think we went up a level when we got him and I think we went down a level when we lost him last season and listen to your point if Giocares does what you think he's going to do Elliot and and again I think there's definitely I don't think that's nonsense by any means then yeah he will take a bit of a step back but I don't know I just don't see that I just don't see it somehow um I think he's too crucial a player to Arteta and uh I think he'll he'll start most games still and that and that's fair Where I would, I don't want to say push back, but where I'd challenge you is, if he starts 32 times and scores 10 goals, I guess what I would say is I don't think that's enough goal scoring that he will get 32 chances to start with Jokeres there pushing him.

1:08:27You know what I mean? Victor Jokeres hasn't come to only start six games. And so if Kai gets 20 goals, which he could, by the way, but the last time I saw Kai start, he eclipsed 10 goals at a canter with far fewer starts than that. So I either think if he starts 32 times, he'll have a 20-goal season. But if he gets 10 and 32, I guess what I'm saying is I don't think he's going to keep Jokras on the bench if he does that. No, but I think we'll see plenty of them in midfield, though. I think. Ah, yeah. Yeah, you know what? That's a very valid rejoinder to my point. Thank you. Clive, you went for 20 and 15.

1:09:0220 starts, 15 goals.

1:09:03Elliot:Yeah, he just changed it to 25 because I agree with Tim. I agree with Tim's argument. um because it's a shame you've not got odegaard on this list because that's the that's the discussion i do i do yeah g plus a yep odegaard g plus a he's on there okay oh you want start from appearances because i think all right well let's talk about that when we get to odegaard yeah wrap that into it because i'll tell you now there's there's a crowd scene on that position particularly depending on how we want to play it particularly if we want to move saka up front to be a bit more of the second presser. And that means that third midfielder, particularly off the ball for a certain phase of a game, could be Havertz, it could be Marino, it could be, you know, Ethan for some games, but I predict Ethan's going to be in those games when we want to be on the ball a lot more.

1:09:51Elliot:You know, so I think there's a, I think Kai looks magnificent in preseason, just absolutely magnificent. And so he's made a big jump forward. Of the players that were here last year, obviously we know the main core, but you probably could think Califuri and Kai have looked like, oh, just like reminded you of who they are. Do you know what I mean? And so I think he's critical to how Arteta plays. And I think the identity of the team is moving more towards the Kais and the Declans than it maybe is Odegaard, who's also been impressive in pre-season. So it'll be an interesting one. But I do think we're going to see a lot more rotation and a little bit more horses for courses in that number 10 role, number eight role on the right-hand side.

1:10:39Elliot:I really do. Yeah. Okay. I think it's a fascinating debate and it's one that's going to have a big impact on our season. I'm excited to watch it. I want to be clear. I think Kai looks brilliant this preseason too. And I think the battle between him and Yoko Ress and how Mikel uses Kai versus Yoko Ress will make the podcast more fun because we're finally going to have some really new things to talk about. and I'm excited about that. Let's speed through Saka goals and assists, you guys. I have month 30. He's going to be our player of the season. Anything from 17 goals and 13 assists or 13 goals and 17 assists, 15 and 15, I think he's going to be in that range.

1:11:16And I'm not even sure he's going to take penalties. I think it's just a full blow-up season for Saka. He's going to be brilliant. Tim, you went for 29. Yeah, all of the above. I don't have anything to add to what I said earlier on Saka. Yep. Okay. and Clive what about you?

1:11:31Elliot:I went I'm sure I got this right I went 25 plus 10 Yeah so you just broke it out so you have 35 total 25 goals for Saka do you want to quickly have a word on that Clive because that that would be a a transformation in his game from a goal scoring standpoint I think he was I think he was on par for it last year and and Salah got 54 was it 54 goal involvements last season we asked him to do 35 well I don't think it's too outlandish you know so So, yeah, that's where I landed up, really. I'm investing in those stocks, Elliot. I think investing in Saka stocks is like, you know, investing in NVIDIA right now.

1:12:09You just can't lose. You're going to be good. Yeah, you're going to be good. So we'll do Martin Odegaard. I'll come right back to you, Clive. You have him on 22 goals and assists. You broke it out, actually, 8 goals, 15 assists. And by the way, I do want to be clear for people who are saying, you know, can he get there? uh forgetting this past season which was disappointment and injury hit 18 goals and assists the season before 22 goals and assists the season before that you have him on 22 so

1:12:37Elliot:anything to add to that yeah i'd say 22 that's about right i maybe would round it 23 sorry yeah yeah i think um again you're looking at people who have really learned the lessons and i can see somebody trying to fix their issues trying to move it trying to be a bit more aggressive when he's running through be a bit more aggressive trying to flick the ball around the corner quickly trying the impossible pass but trying it you know and then we hopefully we can count the press on that when on the turnover so i can see somebody that's got a good twitter feed and he's listening to the feedback you know and uh you can see it can't you you can see this gets through to them and um in whatever way and you'd you'd say to martin o'dagard you need to be better obviously he's taking more shots you know he's making i just saw one hesitate decision and i was all over it in my mind i said it on the last show but actually i shouldn't do that because it's just somebody in pre-season so you've got to be careful but i see somebody trying to be more direct and i think it's very important that he is because you've got three runners ahead of you all the clips of mike since he was 15 are all slicing through defenses so i think he may not have many goals but i think his assist number could go up much more yep tim you've got 17 goals and assists what about you yeah yeah i i think with more in front of them in attack we'll see and i i think i'll mainly be assists to be honest i do think there'll be more of a separation between the creators and scorers so I reckon Saka will get a lot of goals but maybe I mean he'll get plenty of assists but I think he'll start to like major on goal scoring and minor on assisting whereas he's been relatively level and I think Erdegaard will major on assisting and minor on goal scoring if that makes sense to people so I think with Giocares, Madureka like you know I wrote about Erdegaard about a bit this week like actually when you break it down Jesus out Havertz out Saka out like who was he creating for last season you know I don't think that explains everything away but I think taking a little bit of pressure off him in the press as well will help and to Clive's point I don't think he needs to be a you know if his legs half falling off he stays on type player anymore and I think all of that will help him as well.

1:15:07I mean he made 26 starts last season. He had a bad season by pretty much everybody's admission, and he had 11 goals and assists. So, I mean, he doesn't have to be great to get close to what we're talking about. I have him for 20. So my theory is there's just more options in front of him, and those options mean that he's going to get assists. If you've got Yolkras and a healthy Kai and a healthy Saka in front of you, you're going to trip and fall your way to seven, eight, nine assists. I do think this will be a more assisty than goal scoring season for Odegaard, and I'm totally fine with that. So let's move on to the critical question of left wing.

1:15:50So if we're going to analyze left wing, the first thing we have to discuss is who gets the most starts there? Tim, you and I have seen it the same way. Clive and Paul have seen it the other way. Clive, I don't know how you want to take that. Tim, who do you have most starts on the left wing? I have Madueke. um i've seen this film before when michael arteta wants to buy a player and really pushes for him it's because he wants to play him right where have we seen him in pre-season left wing i i think that's what we'll see um because i don't really see it for all the talk about rotation i absent saka from that saka's going to play whenever he's fit um he might be the only player that does that other than in the front of the team.

1:16:32But I just think that absolute Occam's razor is we bought Madueke and we spent quite a bit of money on him because we want to use him. And we're not going to use him on the right wing, are we? So he's going to play on the left. I think you can see that we've been exploring alternatives on the left, which suggests to me Arteta's got eyes and he can see what we can see, that we're not getting as much from there as we could be. and listen again there is a world where madureki is an option on the left that gives us three left wingers at the moment who will do reasonably different things and that's quite good to have that diversity but like i said i've seen this film before with michael arteta i think man i think madureki is going to start on sunday on the left wing and i think he will start the majority of games there that's a big call i don't agree with the last piece but i do agree that nani will start the most on the left wing with one caveat.

1:17:25A. N. Other, who is not at the club currently, could also be that option. But I think the time has come for evolution on that wing, and I do agree with Tim's assessment that Mikel really wanted Nani, and I don't think it's because he's going to start Bacayo 18 times and Nani 19 times or 20 times. So I think he's going to start on the left most. Although, unlike the right wing, I don't think this will be a case of one player owns the position. I think there will be more rotation on this wing. Clive, you've gone for Martinelli.

1:17:53Elliot:yeah you know i've gone for him to be in the underperformer but you need to see him to be the underperformer and that's why i've gone for him so um but i again i don't live and die by it and in pre-season on sunday i really couldn't tell you he's going to start i watched the last game live and they both had positive moments in their halves of the pitch you know and that's classic castle that is you know um so if they share the game on sunday doesn't bother me i do think playing against a back three potentially having more of a power athlete could impact them in the first phase of the game and then having a speed to come on if he went the other way around i'll be just as cool because let's be honest manowecky's only just got back from holiday a week or so or two weeks three weeks after the rest of the players so um they may want to ease him in but tim's argument is very powerful and he wouldn't bother me because that's what we want isn't it we want wide player options we don't want left backs coming on in champion league quarterfinals to play out wide you know so how that shakes up is going to be down to how people perform every pre-season game felt like soccer started is that right and so i'm not sure we want to be doing that so um if we are going to do that then we're not really buying into what we think we've bought you know so we need to give people a chance i mean it'd be confident enough to sit him down.

1:19:17Elliot:I don't just mean 10 minutes off at the end. I mean sit him down. In World Cup year when he's going to be playing international games, that means something because people want to be in the side, not in just squad, in the side. So all the national breaks will mean a lot more. So I do think we need to be brave to make sure we can sit Saka down. But I still think Tim's argument trumps mine. I think that will happen. But you did say something else, Ed. there's room in the squad for one more and one or two go out and that could change things significantly i'll just say this it it sounds great to share minutes and rest players and keep them fit for saka not to start every game i just want to know how much grace and consideration and kindness is going to be shown when we start nani madweke at home to crystal palace and the game ends 1-1 and Saka dragged us back to level with his 20-minute appearance in the second half and everyone goes, why didn't he start Bakaya Saka?

1:20:20You know what I mean? The stakes are so high. It takes incredible courage to not start a Saka or not start a Rice or not start a Saliba. And I think there are a couple of players in this team that will start every game they're fit because I just think the margins are so fine and the stakes are so high that those players will get picked. that when push comes to shove, even Mikel Arteta for all of his, you know, philosophies and discipline will look at that team sheet and say, I need Saka on it. You know what I mean, Clive? I just think it's too hard not to.

1:20:54Elliot:There's not one person listening to this that wouldn't want Saka to have a 60-game season next year, 25 goals and 10 assists. So we're all the same, right? I'm just trying to be realistic and say, actually, he's played a hell of a lot of minutes as a 4 '23 year old and we do need to make sure that he's punchy come the times that really matter you know if we want to win something mate we got to be we may have to go to City later in the season or when we go to Newcastle this year we got to go and take the points from them you know we're going to need him to do something special and if he's carrying that leg like a Samsonite suitcase then there's no point is it he's on the pitch but he's not really on the pitch you know and that's a different look at timber toward the end of last season we had to play him injured it obviously wasn't right until he couldn't do it anymore you know and um so yeah i just i'm very conscious of that the conditions of the players is really important to give us that extra detail look at psg earlier cruise for the league come the critical moment we can all name their team right now just name it and it was there for the last two months of the year and then when they needed it it was just there no issues do you mean and that's a different league but we've got to get to that point so how we get there means we've got to be a bit more thoughtful about how we use players but that's where i am sounds great in theory doesn't it it's you know what clive i don't think anybody can argue with anything you've said i just close my eyes and try to picture it's 64 minutes palace are one nil up at the emirates and nani madoike has had a bit of a quiet game off the right.

1:22:37And the amount of frustration there will be. Now, look, the manager can't think like that, right? The manager can't be worried that the Emirates crowd groans that Saka didn't start. He's got to do what's best for his players. I get it. I mean, I remember there were times Thierry Henry didn't start. You know what I mean? There were times he was rested. But it is, like I said, fine margins and high stakes, and it takes a lot of courage to make that call.

1:23:03Elliot:And I'm not the one who's got to make it, thankfully. But we drew your Palace at home this year, 2-2, and Saka played. And we lost Big Gabby in that game. Come back from Brazil. And we lost him. If we have him for the final games of the Champions League, who knows what would have happened? You know, would unset piece against PSG would have gone in? Maybe. You know, he's an unbelievable player. You know, so he can't win. I'm just trying to be sensible. But in my heart, I want him to play every single minute. But I'm trying to be sensitive. We don't live in a sensible world, Clyde. But you're absolutely right.

1:23:38The theory of the case is beyond disagreement here, I think. What actually happens and when the moment comes and you've got to write those names down on that team sheet, that's when the courage of your convictions is tested. So we'll see how it plays out. It'll be an interesting one to see for sure. I think Tim's point that Mikel really seemed to want Nani, really seemed to go for him, means he's got a lot of confidence in him. and I don't think that's just to play off the left. I mean, he was very effective for Chelsea off the right. So it's an interesting one. I'm going to read out the goals and assists we picked for Nani so we can move past this section here.

1:24:12Clive has him starting 20 games and getting 8 goals and 8 assists, so 16 total. Tim has him starting 24 games and getting 15 goals and assists. I have him starting 24 games and getting 14 goals and assists. Martinelli goals and assists. Tim, you've got 12 total, 12 goals plus assists. anything you want to add to that or not really? Not really I think that's a reflection of how I think that will be good going for how much he'll play but and don't get me wrong I don't think like with those numbers he will not be like a shadow member of the squad he'll contribute plenty but I just see Madueke being first choice and maybe Martinelli kind of coming on as a sub in certain game states might help him in terms of his end product.

1:24:59Do you remember that Palace game, not last season, season before? Won 5-0, he came on as a sub. What did he do? Ran through on goal twice in the last kind of 10 minutes when they were knackered. I could see more of that type of thing happening for him.

1:25:11Elliot:Again, Tim, when he ran through, he was out to in, wasn't it? In behind the centre-forward, running through. That's who he is, mate. That's who he is. It frustrates me. And Gabriel Jesus started that game, by the way. I think that's a massive, massive part of him. not being up to those standards. I agree. I think with your careers, he's quite a basic connector. You know what I mean by that? It's like, ball's come up to me, I'm looking for a layoff. So what I was going to do is going to attract people to zero in to him, like run into him. You know he's looking for a lay, a quick layoff, and then he's going to spin.

1:25:44Elliot:And so, looking for a layoff. Oh, I edit. How old are you? You know, we're only human. And spin. So I think he's going to, when the ball goes up to him, I think he's going to track Saka and Martin Eddy inside. And when they're inside, I think they're a problem, particularly if we're transitioning. So I want to see him do that. That's his future, by the way. If he doesn't do it, he's not going to be here next season, season after next. It's as simple as that. Even if he's here this season, if he doesn't change his running patterns, he's not going to play. Yeah. Yeah. I think you have him for seven goals, five assists.

1:26:19I have him for 11 goals and assists. I think almost like a Theo Walcott, he's a player who I think can perform really well in the Champions League where there just tends to be a bit more space to run into. The way mid blocks and low blocks have challenged us in the Premier League, I think Martinelli, I don't want to say he's run his course, that's so dismissive, but I think has maybe reached the limit of what he can do against settled defenses. I think his skill set is not particularly well suited to when there's two defenders in front of him and he's got to make an instinctive quick move and make the right decision first time against a settled defense.

1:26:52But when there is space, even a bit, I think he can be really effective. And the Champions League tends to provide more opportunities for that. We saw it against Real Madrid. Theo Walcott always used to do well, like I said, in the Champions League. So maybe that's where he makes his mark this season. This is a more important category, I think. Maybe not more important, but certainly more interesting. Calafiore starts. Ricardo Calafiore, an interesting and exciting player. Fitness has been obviously a problem. What do you have for him for starts in the Premier League this season? Yeah, I've gone for 18 just because I really think those fullback roles will be and should be a job share.

1:27:25I also think there are doubts over Califuri's fitness. You could convince me if he stays fit, he'll get 30-odd. I don't think that would be bad for Miles either. By the way, I wouldn't consider it a massive step back if that happened, if he became the junior in that partnership, as it were. But I do think Califuri clearly is a player that's probably going to need physically looking after, even if he doesn't get injured and I really want those fullback roles to become job shares I really do I really want a roughly equal distribution between the four of them I think that can make us so strong because I think they're all roughly as good as each other they do slightly different things as well which I think is really interesting and I think we should lean into that that always being able to put out whoever the the combination of fullbacks is being the same I think that's a massive strength and we'd be silly not to take advantage of it.

1:28:18Yeah, I've gone for 14, not because I don't think he's important enough to play more than that, but I think there's sometimes with players you just have to acknowledge when there's a limitation to what their body can hold up for. And at this point, until he proves me wrong, I don't know that I believe he's durable enough to play regularly. I think Miles is a brilliant player. I just think Cal Fiore lets us do some things that are totally unique. And Mikel went for him and he was a priority for Mikel. So I think if he's fit, Mikel will want to use him. But the combination of some of his defensive issues and his body not holding up, I think, limits him.

1:28:51I have him for 14 starts, but I do think he can be important to us across all competitions when he does play, much like he was important for us when he played last season. And he did start 11 times last season, so this isn't that much more than that. Clive, you've gone for 20.

1:29:05Elliot:Yeah, I think his talent is otherworldly. If he was ever to just do a video on him, I could explain to you so much more easily about the things he can do coming out of his boots in different parts of the pitch it's just incredible you know he's got to be the most multifunctional defender there is he can dribble you he can go both ways in dribble he dribbles with both feet he can cross from the outside he can drive inside he can score off his right foot he can score off his left foot he can switch paths inside and outside of his foot across the pitch to the right-hand side. He can run laterally and look like he belongs doing it.

1:29:46Elliot:He just belongs on a football pitch. Just look at the assist he gave to Declan Rice at Palace last year. He just sort of stabbed an outside of the foot past him. Where the hell does that come from? He's running through the pitches against Bill Bell, a little coy thing behind him, and he's away on the inside. He's just a natural. And the only thing that probably stops us going over the top, like I just have, is the fact that every time you get excited, he's down on the floor out of nowhere and the physio's running on that's the only thing that stops you from really investing in the stocks massively super talent and i think he changes he changes our game yeah and he doesn't change changes rice's game he might change martinelli's game he might change jokeres's game i just think he's such a good player and so if he gets 20 starts in Premier League.

1:30:36Elliot:I think we're going places. And Miles is 18 and Miles does something else. He can stop a Rodrigo and make me think, I'm not sure I want to sign him. He's that good. Do you know what I mean? And that's how good he is in one-on-ones in particular. And for England, he drops into midfield a lot more. England are not used to seeing that. They've got someone who can take the ball a million of the pitch and suddenly England can progress up the pitch and have a number six next to him. So he's got so much to, he's doing so much already. He's got so much to learn. He's in the best place for him. So we're very lucky to have both of them.

1:31:06Yeah, I think that's well said. And I agree. I mean, if you think about Trent Alexander-Arnold, he had some limitations defensively, but look at what he was able to add for Liverpool. I'm not saying Cal Fiore is Trent. I'm just saying these players who give you unique skills and capabilities from positions that you don't usually anticipate getting that from can cause real havoc for the opposition. I think he has the ability to do that. Let's talk Ethan starts, and I'll start. No one's going to like this answer. I've gone for two Premier League starts for Ethan Winery. I think Ethan will play. I think he'll play a lot, potentially.

1:31:41I think he'll have a lot of sub appearances, a lot of cup appearances. When push comes to shove, if Saka's not starting, Nani will. If Odegaard's not starting, I think Kai might or Marino might. If Rice isn't starting again, Kai or Marino, it is simply the case that Ethan, they want to develop him as a midfielder, but I think the trust and readiness to play him as a midfielder, as a starter in the Premier League, given what else we have around us, is limited. And so I love his talent, and I want us to find ways to use him. But I think given the group that's available in midfield and now there being a proper sack of backup, I think it'll just be hard for him to find starts in the Premier League.

1:32:20I've gone for two. It is in no way me shorting his talent, though, or even the contribution he can make this season. Clive, you've gone for 10 for Ethan?

1:32:31Elliot:Yeah, 10 starts. I think he made, did he make 30-odd, what was his appearances last year? Was it 30-odd appearances he made in total or something like that? I'll have that for you in two seconds. Yeah, sorry, man. I shouldn't do that to you. You do it to me all the time, but I don't do it to you. No, no, no. Turnabout's fair play. So, Ethan appearances in the Premier League, he made, and I have that in front of me, literally as we speak. So, he made 26 appearances in the league, 11 starts. Yeah, 11 starts. i i've i said all of those at right right yeah and i've gone for 10 starts and but i shouldn't have done i should go for a little bit more um because i want to see something else from him i want him to become more versatile i don't want to do a theo walcott and say i'm a center forward and then i want to be judged inside you know you've got unbelievable on-board talents you can travel you can shoot you can do it from in ethan's case you can do it from wide right You can do it from slightly inside.

1:33:33Elliot:Potentially, you could do it as a second striker in that sort of system. Can you do it off the left? You know, can you? So at his age, I'll be saying to the manager, I want to be a versatile forward so I can be of use to you in many positions. If you're going to sit me down next to Martin Odegaard and just do that role, Elliot, you could be right on the starts. Do you see what I mean? And I want him to change and do a little bit more and be more effective. I think he's got, obviously, he's got goals in him. i want to see him become more of an all-round player rather than developing to just that guy or the edgy area that gets shots off you know he's got to develop his off the ball game got developed with different layers he's metronomic style but everything's a dribble on a one-on-one to do that you need to change position you know so i'm hoping he does that and that'll get him his starts okay yeah i mean it'll be it'll be interesting to see anything from you tim on the seven you've predicted yeah I I'm with you I just think there's a bit more traffic I think he got so many in quite extraordinary circumstances anyway last season I do slightly worry about the kind of not worry about the developing developing him to be central stuff I do I get that because Saka's position is not coming up is it but at the same time I do worry if that's kind of come from him and it does feel like it has because we didn't really have like an inclination to play him there last year and then all of a sudden when we want him to sign a contract he starts three pre-season friendlies there it feels a bit Theo Walker I do worry that he's limited his scope a little bit if indeed I have that right and that's the case rather than just going do you know what right well I'll take the starts where they come right wing Sakra and Madueki get injured or whatever and i'm the guy there like i do wonder a little bit about limiting the scope for his appearances but look seven like that that's still a good number for his age i think we do lose sight of how young he is yeah again i i think he will play a lot but i think if he sees himself and if the club see him as in as an eight i don't think there's a lot of opportunity to start at eight for him just at the moment um and that could wind up looking really dumb because the one thing i'll say is he has the talent to break out and become a star player and it's just it's a really tricky team to break out into that will happen one day is look Declan Rice and Martin Odegaard are no slouches you better break out big time if you want to take one of their shirts uh okay the next one is all comps Max Dowman and this is interesting we've gone for 10 10 10 um um and do we copy each other's homework what do we do yeah we copied each other's homework i didn't see anyone else's answers uh mine were isolated i think it's because it was like the last question on the spreadsheet and you just start getting a bit lazy well so for me i i just did some math in my head i'm like two league cup ties uh one fa cup tie two maybe kind of champions league dead rubbery type things and five in the premier league where we're winning late or we need a burst and someone's not available so i've gone for 10 just by kind of totting it up that way the fact that we've all gone for 10 i think we all agree he will make appearances um and we can move on from there red cards against tim you've gone for zero yeah um oh red cards oh yeah yeah red cards that's like red cards for us did you mean uh against oh against us okay sorry sorry no sorry let me let me rephrase that red cards given to arsenal okay yeah yeah i've just gone for zero just to just why not well that was your wildest prediction so you have to stick with it um i've gone for two i think last season was an outlier in general i think this is more randomness than people want to believe but i know that there is a way of thinking that it's intentional and it's by design but I just think the way we play in general the teams don't get into our penalty box that often and so if you look at opposition touches in our penalty box and you look at what an average season should be it shouldn't be a lot of red cards but we do play a high line maybe there could be a last line defense red card I've gone for two Clive you've gone for four anything to add to that yeah because I don't like them Manchester based geezers that keep sending our players off right so And I don't see anything changing there.

1:38:01Elliot:Howard Webb's got a new jacket. He's back out talking about set-piece rules and different things like this and tugging on shirts. Clive, I've got to stop you. He has proven that the thing they're most interested in is chalking off goals because though we're going to enforce holding on set-pieces more, there's holding on every set-piece. So if you really – all they're going to do is either give a raft of penalties that are totally inconsistent because there's holding on every set-piece or chalk off goals that are totally inconsistent because there's holding on every set piece. How do they manage to get it so wrong?

1:38:32It's insane.

1:38:33Elliot:So almost every team right now in preseason is working on their set piece routines and they're going through, they're putting people in position and they're stopping people running through them by standing still. Is a referee going to say by design, well, that's the foul because you stop someone. Is someone going to like Romero, do one of those, run into one of our defense and throw himself to the floor, holding his face? And then the referee gives a foul. because that's what he thinks has happened. I mean, we just opened ourselves up to something which is very subjective and very much on the spot.

1:39:03Elliot:So I think it's going to lead to issues. I don't trust this lot, mate. I don't trust them. I haven't got over Brighton at home yet. I haven't got over it. I just haven't got over it. Why would you do that? You know, just think what's happened to us last year. I don't trust any of them. And so we had six last year. I've gone for four, because I just want to be a little bit, I'm hoping for better. but they'd like to make a point and we are sitting there super sunday man united we're sitting there mate let's just test our rules out on the on the arsenal that's what that's what gets a lot of traction and so i i worry about this so um yeah i said too much you got me wound up already about bloody referees i mean can i tell you if i had a wish for this season and it had to be something other than the title or you know champs my wish for this season is don't talk we have nothing to say about referees that would be my wish for this because i get no joy podcasting about it i get no joy watching it it turns people off to the game let's just keep our fingers crossed and go from there can i hold you on this for a bit just for a second longer idiot i was watching a championship game the other week and last weekend and it may have been bergen versus something i can't remember now rexham or something like that and there's no via in that league right no var at all and so listen to a commentary every single thing the pundit or the commentator said was was that a foul was it not a foul the referee's losing control blah blah and the whole commentary was about the events of every collision every moment right and you could see and i think i said hold a minute some of these guys who are presenting football to us need to understand the rules and the referees the perception of how they look at the game, because they're creating a sense of angst.

1:40:49Elliot:Now, in the Premier League, we can go to technology, but in the other leagues, we can't. And that whole set of angst around referees is only going to get more and more intense. And I don't think Howard Webb is doing enough to protect the referees. I hear he wants to humanise them, which I really agree with. But what does that mean? Now, what does that truly mean? They don't want to be celebrities, but what does that truly mean? You were getting closer to the club and getting closer to TV people so they can understand what they're actually doing and how they look at it. At the moment, I see the gap getting wider and we're going to get angrier.

1:41:24You know, so I'm not hopeful for the season, mate.

1:41:27Elliot:I'm really not. Sorry to depress you. Well, no, I mean, look, it is a topic that unfortunately keeps coming up. I don't think there's ever been a time when people loved refs and thought they were great, but I do think we've gone the wrong direction. Okay, penalties four. Clive, you've gone for five. Tim, you've gone for seven. I've gone for eight. Before people say, are you out of your mind? Two seasons ago, when we hit 91 goals, we had 10 penalties. Last season, we only had two. Again, I cannot say it any clearer than this. A team that is near the league lead every season and touches in the opposition box should wind up with a decent number of penalties.

1:42:00I think we will this season. Eight is fewer than the 10 we got two seasons ago. But again, I think Yokores, physical, powerful, hard running in the box. The way he's going to be taken down will be an issue. sack a fit. He's always going to be worth a couple of penalties. Max Dowman, we know, can win penalties. So that's the number we've each gone for. We're not going to expand on that. We'll finish on this. United and Spurs final position. Clive, you've gone fourth for United, seventh for Spurs. Your word on that?

1:42:26Elliot:Well, I'd rather say 14th and 17th, but I just didn't. Leave that to me. I just think they're going to get better because they have to. you know I don't think you can't be you know they can't do that again if they they might as well burn the grounds down right if that happens and so they're just they're going to dig in they're going to be more competitive and I said by Paul on May night earlier I'm looking at Spurs and the manager knows what he's doing if he's if he's prepared to play PSG like that he's going to plan for game by game I'm not sure they quite have the depth I'm not sure they quite have the talent but they certainly will have the organization and from there on in we'll see what they can do but yeah that's why i'm going with spurs for may night i just think we spoke about it i think they're just going to improve yeah yeah uh tim seventh and eighth seventh for spurs eighth for united yeah yeah we covered most of this yesterday on the uh on the power rankings um leave it to that if you want yeah yeah i think united no champions league i think they'll score 20 odd more goals which will shoot them up the table and help them out a bit Spurs kind of a bit dependent on what they do in the rest of the transfer market because they they need more creativity they've lost a lot of goals with Sun going as well so they kind of need to replace that first but I think with Champions League football as well I just see them a slight step below Newcastle and Villa I think Thomas Frank makes Spurs just a better team immediately because they'll be more organized and they'll just be more sensible.

1:43:59I just don't see how either of these teams can get past Arsenal, Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Newcastle, Villa. You know, seventh is the height of their ambition at this point, in my view, and I have them finishing eighth. I think they lack goals and I think they have two defenders in Mickey Vandevan and Cutie who are overrated. One just runs fast but isn't a great defender and the other is angry Mustafi. United I have an 11th, and I'm being generous. I do think Amarim gets sacked this season. I think they've gone for two signings in Mbumo and Cunha who are good players, but were the two biggest XG over performers in the league last season.

1:44:35Historically, that's regressed. They have Sesko, who I think is a very talented player, but needed to go to a good, comfortable environment where he could be surrounded by good players and have time and maybe a little bit of less pressure. I don't know that he's ready to be a top impact player in the Premier League. And behind that, an aging Bruno. Cunha's known for throwing strops. They're going to play Euro in heaven a heck of a lot this season. They're going to have Casemiro and Bruno in a double pivot. They may make some signings, and Carlos Buleba makes them better. I think their midfield gets run through.

1:45:03I think their outside edge defenders are poor. I think their attack is still lacking. I think Amarim's system is a joke, and I think they'll stink. So kudos to them. It's another bottom half finish for United. Amarim sacked sometime during the season. I think we can leave it there. We've been going an awful long time. You can look at the predictions on the spreadsheet that we've included. You can listen to the Power Rankin Season Preview on Patreon. You can check out Friday Night Clive tomorrow, which is going to be a blast. AVP50 is the code. You get it for a couple of quid and you can see what you think.

1:45:28Tim, you ground this one out, man. I know this is, let me just say this behind the scenes, right? It's always good to get your predictions down. This is not the most fun to record and it may not even be the most fun listen, but we appreciate you sticking it out. Thanks, Tim. My pleasure as always. Clive, you're a a hero and a stalwart. And we just appreciate you. And thank you for being a part of this.

1:45:50Elliot:Thank you very much. As I said, we'll have predictions. So Paul's in there, Phil's in there, Matt's in there, Scott's in there. We're going to have another prediction episode because who doesn't love listening to this all done again? I certainly know I love hosting it again. But the games start for real. It's Manchester United on Sunday. We'll have an instant reaction after that. And it is a big one. So let's get excited. We love you so, so much. New season ahead, big season ahead, treble winning season ahead. We will talk to you after Arsenal 10, United Nils.

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