Arsenal Win Caps Incredible Weekend of Results

29:51It's been an issue since Mourinho took his inner team

29:57Elliot:to Barcelona. And he told everybody, this is how you can defend if you want to. And people are getting better and better at it with increased physicality in the league. And so now we're seeing football which is a byproduct of that and how you overcome that. And it will turn again when people keep chucking loads of goals in the net from set pieces, then it will turn again. But the, I do want to say that the collectivism in our group, the way the group collectively flows back to get into shape when they do lose the ball is so great to see though, because some of those giveaways could have led to saying, can I stay with you for one second, Clive?

30:33And then Tim, I want to talk as a for a minute, but it did seem like Mateta was targeting Saliba. And I don't know why he came off at halftime. I don't think we've had an update on that. it wasn't the most assured performance from Saliba. And I guess if I had to pick on him, you could say that sometimes the long straight balls have given Saliba problems. Sometimes he wants to read it and position his body. And Mateta was really clever, I think, waiting for Saliba to try to position his body to collect the ball and then getting around him and using his strength to kind of win those first and second balls.

31:08Gabby was fantastic in this game, obviously, and cleaned everything up. but did you get a sense that maybe something wasn't fully right with Saliba? Like I said, I don't think we have an update on why he came off at halftime, but there were a few dodgy moments with Mateta and Saliba.

31:23Elliot:I don't know if I counted a few, but I remember one. It's at my end. I remember thinking, oh, he's got that. And Saliba Mateta's legs came around the corner, and he didn't have it, right? Ninth minute, yeah. And that was the one where Timber came around and cleaned it up, but then his touch was heavy. But he's clean up. I think that's where he gets the injury as well. I think he actually collides with Gabriel. I think that's where I am. Oh, interesting. You know what, Tim, to the words I'm out, because I re-watched the first 15 minutes this morning and the last 15 minutes to get a feeling of the game.

31:50Elliot:And you can see from that moment, he started to limp around a little bit. And so, and I just think, well, you know what? We're lucky we've got Gabriel and Timber and Califuri because that bloke is massive, Mateo. He is absolutely massive. And those boys, they go for him. They go for him. and you can see how he has real damage against other defenses. The Stieber had a... You need to... Stieber's not just big, but he's powerful. So you need his weight to allow people to get around him. Do you see what I mean? So whether you win it or you don't do it, no one's running straight through him. You know, he may lose the bubble of a ball, but no one's running straight through him.

32:27Elliot:And while he's manhandling him, I'll tell you what, Gabriel and Timber are saying, yeah, well, you might get past him, but you ain't getting past us. you know and that's the collective view of them all i thought they were all excellent to manage him i don't i'm not gonna worry every time see balut is a challenge because he will lose the odd one and if you're gonna lose one make it be against a harland or this guy because they are physically unbelievable you know so um and that's just part of the game which what you do around that and we did that really well in this game i don't know if brazil is going to win the world cup in the summer and that may change this but when we win the league and european double this season this was the game that really occurred to me gabby's probably going to win the ballon door um i mean he scores goals in the games where we need him to score goals he's he gets an assist that's not credited as an assist in this game which is an absolute crime but he he's not normally the technical leader of our defense in the way that saliva is but in this game he had the most touches of any Arsenal player.

33:30The 22nd minute Zubamendi gives the ball away poorly. It's just he short sells a pass, I think, to Calafiore. And he does the thing you should never do, right? Straight ball, lateral ball, cross the midfield, underweight. They pick it up. And I think it's Ismail Sar. And Gabby just comes across and blocks it beautifully. Positions his body, arms behind his back, sticks his leg out, blocks it, right? He sort of took over the responsibility of stopping Mateta. And there was a moment later in the game where they did get down the left-hand side and there was a cutback to Mateta. And Gabby gets there on time so that Mateta can't get the shot off.

34:10It was late in the game too. I think it was later in the second half. I think his goals from set pieces have obviously been a big part of our season. And again, he's influential on a set piece that leads to the goal in this game. But I thought this was a great game to sort of celebrate the totality of his game, how complete it is. Tim, I used to think of him as the more helter-skelter defender and Saliba as the one who was a little calmer and settled everything down. But Gabby has found a wonderful balance now between flying in when flying in is what's called for, but he feels very under control in the way he plays defensively.

34:48And he has to marshal Mascara through the rest of that game, right? Not that Mascara needs much. He's a wonderfully talented player himself, but his leadership really showed up in this game for me. So we don't have to talk about the Ballon d 'Or yet. Might be a little early for that, but did you agree that this was a sort of a great advertisement for Gabby's all-around game? Yeah, when you think about how physical he is as a defender and doesn't get many yellow cards, does he? Doesn't give away a lot of fouls or anything like that. You don't see big sliding tackles. It's all touch tight, muscling people, covering his partner, as he did in the example we talked about, which is where I think Saliba picks up the knock, throwing himself into the path of a cross, nearly takes his head off on the post trying to score.

35:33At the end, he's got a bravery about him, both physical and psychological bravery of just, you are not getting past me. and I will put my head where you won't, I will put my boot where you won't. And it's just, he's just like terrifically kind of brave player. And I think you're right. I think he's, I think just also from a kind of a nice consequence of just playing so much, he's just in such a good rhythm that he has that, you know, he really has that, like you say, that line kind of between fire and ice at the same time. and all the things, all the kind of, which I think were quite small flaws, but some of the flaws when we picked him up, like passing, for example, like not a flaw at all anymore.

36:21You know, this is a guy who's really, really worked on himself and he's just come to that point of serenity, I think, a player gets sometimes when they are the pick. They are one of the leaders of the team. They play every week. They're very important in every phase of play. And this just looks like a player who's just totally and utterly in that rhythm. Someone we missed massively at the end of last season as well. I think that was really underplayed, kind of understandably, because we lost so many players to injury. It was kind of difficult to isolate one. But I think losing him for Champions League semifinal and all that was, you know, a match like those long throws against PSG.

37:05you know i i'd have i'd have liked him in the area for one or two of those but just i'd say very simply elliot i'm i'm too old really to have favorite players but like if i think of my favorite player in this like quote unquote project it's gabriel it really is i just think he he epitomizes everything i i really like about this team and everything i think we lost a decade or so ago Yeah, really well said. And whatever togetherness there is in this team, I think it sort of starts with Gabby. He feels like the emotional leader. He really has so much love and enthusiasm for his teammates. He plays with a tremendous amount of emotion, but on the right side of the line.

37:51And I think because he's so emotional and so big and so physical, his technical quality is underestimated. But one of our best moments in this game is a Leo cut back to Saka where he just doesn't quite beat his man to it. And it starts with a beautifully chipped pass over the defense to Leo from Gabby, right? He had the most touches in this game, the most passes in this game. You don't have 89 passes and 103 touches in a game if you don't have technical quality. And he sacrificed any future children he wanted to have for the team because that is a powerful collision of groin and post. And I said on the instant reaction, I'd be happy to give any of my bits in tribute to Gabby if he needed them.

38:28Not that I think they would be sufficient for him, but he could certainly take what little I have to offer. Jokes, too many jokes. There's a lot of them, yeah. Arsenal has two sometimes posts highlights. He has links to all the key moments so you can watch him back. And the one he said, Gabby's post hits the post, was the one that he put there. and I was like, what is it? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, that's right. So, yeah, a great performance from him. Now, I am wearing an SA-10 Arsenal shirt. The first time I have gotten myself one of those shirts in many, many years. I don't buy shirts with names and numbers on the back, but I got caught up in the let it all work out thing, and is there anything more predictable than a player scoring against his former team?

39:12Thankfully, Eddie Nketiah didn't do that, although I thought he had a bright cameo, by the way. but Eze did with a stunning hitch kick from the set piece Wharton goes to sleep a little bit never rated that player personally and Eze steals him behind and this is the interesting thing with a player like Eze and this is where I think we have to remember he and Odegaard are very very different players because Eze is the kind of guy who's going to get 5 out of 10 things wrong and 5 out of 10 things right and 2 out of those 10 things are going to be something out of the absolute top drawer that can win you a game.

39:47We are a team that emphasizes control. And so I think we get quite antsy when you have a player who doesn't emphasize control. And Clive, a big part of the early story of this game was Eze being the player who did pop up in pockets and did progress the ball, but also lost it. And I thought you did some really interesting analysis in your halftime voice note from the ground for the instant reaction, because I was seeing a lot of anxiety and angst and critique on as his performance but he was also taking the responsibility to try to get it forward he tries a lot and loses more than maybe we're used to and maybe it's because we don't appreciate Odegaard is just consistently excellent at not just progressing the ball but doing it at 92 % passing with with zero giveaways so how do you evaluate before we get to the goal itself as is influence progressing it but also losing it yeah so Odegaard

40:38Elliot:is a metronomic player, gets on the ball, lots of touches, and he lends you the ball, rather than kiss you the ball, and he wants it back, so he can control the drumbeat of a game in all different areas of the pitch. SA's not that, right? He's less intense in his movement. The reason why I liked his performance in this game, in a game where there was no space, nowhere to stand between the lines, he went outside of the block to the right-hand side, Odegaard style, early in the game, and merely got on his bike, ran inside, The fact he lost the ball trying to pass to Saka who was running along with his lemsip in his hand, I put that down to a lack of connection on that side rather than him giving the ball away.

41:19Elliot:Because when those two can pass to each other and they weren't quite on the same wavelength for a couple of pages, but the root cause of the first giveaway when he burst inside was he was running too fast. And the runs disappeared on him. So he played it anyway. I don't mind that. because in this game when they are so disciplined, you almost have to encourage it because he's going to break it open. Do you see what I mean? He's the one finding space. He's the one getting on the ball. He's the one we want on the ball, turning around, dribbling and carrying. So why are you going to give him stick?

41:49Elliot:Because without that, we're not going to break this team open. Do you see what I mean? And I'm thinking, well, Saka doesn't look right to me. I thought he could have come up at half time. I was worried it was more hamstring related. I didn't realize it was illness related. I think, get him off. We need energy in the wide area. that's what I was thinking Eze was a first from my mind so in this game actually he really encouraged me in this performance because finding space against this team is really really hard and he keeps doing it and the way he does it is sometimes just by standing still Messi style sometimes Messi would let the game go around him and he would walk into a position and suddenly he's in a pocket of space but we were giving it to him this time so it makes him look good obviously Messi's always going to get the ball at Barbs Bona the moment he's in space so but I think in some games we've gone around him because we're not used to him yet you know so when he plays left we know where he's going to be so we find him you know and he gets the ball and recycles it so i thought this was his best 10 game for me life easily easy best game 10 game i think i said before that odegaard links with the right back and right midfielder is a far more linking with jokaret and again we need that don't we because jokaret is not smooth on the ball we need somebody close to him so you can get it off him.

43:03Elliot:You can pin two people, get it off him, give it to me, mate. You've done your work. The centre-backs are pulling your shirt all over the place. You're on the floor, you're holding them down. Give me the ball now. And then I can create the next phase of play. And so it's different. And this is what I mean. People mustn't cut and paste what Odegaard does to what Eze's been asked to do in this team. When Odegaard comes back and Havertz comes back, the league's in a bit of trouble. It really is. It's in a bit of trouble because our defensive resolve has gone through the roof. The way the game has gone suits us even more so than any other period in our history with him.

43:38Elliot:And Odegaard, don't forget Olympiacos' performance. It was mesmeric. It reminded me of what we've missed with him. And so, yeah, I thought Eze did really well. The goal was so good, I didn't celebrate. I thought, well, that can't be a goal. How has he done that? I mean, literally, Daniel Vren again. He's doing his thing. I thought, must be offside. What's happened? how's that gone in and when you re-watch it oh my goodness that is an incredible goal you know and to call that a set piece goals almost feels a little bit wrong you know because it's a really good action so we should be very encouraged in how he's developing into his team and considering the amount of minutes that he's playing i think he's doing really really well yeah i mean it's just this is such basic data and and i realize it's not dispositive but like he he passed it 76 in this game.

44:31He's about a 75, 76 % passer. That's what he is. Odegaard, 83, 84%. But you know who was like a 75, 76 % passer? Seth Fabregas, right? There's certain players who want to try the impossible. And I think Eze is that guy and he's going to take the extra touch. He's going to try to beat the extra man. He's going to try to play a pass that maybe isn't on because when it works, it changes a game. It wins you a game. In fact, Mikel had a comment about that. you know we said um on on the let's see he had a he had a lot of comments about as and what as they did in this game but basically if i can find it yes uh on whether on if it was easy for as a to deliver a strong performance against his old club he said no it's not that's what big players do and he's certainly a big player hopefully that's going to give him a big boost in confidence to generate many more moments like this because these are the moments that sometimes define a season.

45:26And I think that that is really the key, right? It's the big moments that define a season that are produced by that next level of quality. And so Tim, I'm curious, you know, just in the ground, sitting there watching this game, were the people around you, were you reacting to the losses of possession and the things that weren't coming off? Because we're not as used to seeing that. Or is there an acknowledgement, a recognition that against a really well-organized team that's designed to set those traps, take those balls and then create the counters against them. You have to try some stuff and it's not all going to come off.

46:00But if you don't, then you wind up going around the horseshoe of death. Yeah, exactly. And I think a lot of people recognize that's what we were doing at points last season. And, you know, a lot of us are very justified. A lot of people wanted us to take more risks with the ball and, you know, be a little bit more enterprising in those areas. And that is the cost of it. People, I think, got ants here around me, around some of the giveaways in our own half, which, again, I think is completely justifiable that kind of occurred early on. But yeah, absolutely, this is what we were asking for and justifiably so.

46:40And the manager recognized it as well. There's no two ways about that. Again, I found it just really confounding over the summer that like, oh, well, Oteta won't do that. He doesn't want that. And it's like, so why is he signing Eza and Madueke and Yokarez? There's a reason he's going after very, very direct attackers. How are you not reading the tea leaves here that he's recognised a lot of the issues? And yeah, and with Eza, there is going to be a little bit of give and take with that. And I suppose I have kind of said that I'm just not sure about Ezra and Erdegaard as twin eights, for example.

47:20But maybe this game put me back in that direction a little bit because it's like, well, actually, Erdegaard's your continuity guy. He's more your eight. He's going to be high touch. He might, you know, fill in some of those things almost that Ezra doesn't give you. But then you get Ezra gives you stuff that Erdegaard doesn't give you. And so maybe with time, something like that can work. With Odegaard more as an eight, kind of dropping between Zubimendi and Ezzer and trying to funnel the ball between them. Maybe this game showed me, actually, that that can work. And that actually might have worked better than probably what we saw in this game as well.

47:59So, yeah, absolutely. But it is one thing, like I said, for me to pat them on the back for taking more risks and stuff like that. I still think from open play we didn't look great I don't think we look like scoring another goal and you could see at the end and again like like I said a lot of it was because we just lost important players but at the end we we knew we were protecting 1-0 and not trying to win 2-0 and I think that was a case of us reading what's on offer in this game second goal is not really on offer here for us so let's let's protect what we've got which I think was the right decision but long-term, I think I'd like to see a bit more 2-0 football, you know?

48:40Yeah, and I think there were some openings where it could have been 2-0. Obviously, I mentioned the one where Gabby chips to Leo and Saka can't quite get onto it. There's, I think Gabby hits the post with his header is in the second half. There was the scrambled one. What was the scrambled one where there was the shout for handball? So there was... rice had a shot that was that was when gaby hit the bar yeah multiple chances to make it two nil there but again like i said second half palace had four shots worth 0.3 xg so had they pushed more to try to win it we may have gotten to two and three and and games are about what both teams do right um as a final point on on as a and look i thought leo was brilliant in this game i thought it was a good brilliant might be overstating that was a good solid leo performance he was really good.

49:33I still see Eze as being the perfect fit for the way we're using that position. So that'd be interesting. But a couple of things on Eze. This is from DataMB. Non-penalty XG plus XA, first among Premier League midfielders. Shots, first among Premier League midfielders. Shots on target, first among Premier League midfielders. Assist, second. Chance creation ratio, second. Non-penalty XG, second. XG per 100 touches, second. Ball carrying frequency, third. So, So, you know, even though I think there's more to come from him, and even though I think he's playing in a role that maybe is still a slightly weird fit for him, I think he's doing it brilliantly.

50:07The goal itself is stunning. Obviously, the no celebration celebration. Mikel had so much praise for him on whether it's the kind of moment we signed him for. Yes, 100 % to strike the ball in the manner that he did. Very similar to where he did it last year, but against us when he scored from that corner directly on the post. So he's got the ability to do that. Against a team that defends with that many bodies, He's so physical. Don't allow any space. With nine defending your best player, you have to generate chaos or open space to generate big chances. And he took the ball and the goal really well.

50:40I will point out, by the way, it's the same kind of skill that he tried to pull off in midweek against Atleti that led to Jokras' goal. So, you know, we know that's something that he can try to do. I want to talk about Jokras, actually. I think that's worth a chat. How we finished the game and the players who came in and helped make it safe and maybe a bit on how we approach the League Cup. We are well into this podcast and have not hit the brands. And I feel a huge sense of disappointment on not having done that. So let me do that because this is not okay. It's not okay that I've done this to you.

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54:44That's nordvpn.com slash arsenalvision. Is that enough of that? Indeed. Clive, why is Victor Yorchner so terrible at football? I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm trying to delete it. I'm trying to remove it. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Don't get mad at me. No, I'm kidding. I am torn because I feel the hipster in me rising up to say something that people are going to roll their eyes at. I really feel like his running is helping us. I really feel like the way he pushes defenders back towards their goal is helping us. I really feel like he's providing an outlet in the way he can. I really feel like he is doing a great job at the things that don't get you the headlines like scoring goals but I also have to acknowledge that there were times in this game where it looked like he might have had a run on his defender and the ball was there and he lost the step to LaCroix or Gahey or got shouldered off it so another mixed bag not a game where he affected it in terms of the goal scoring but I am impressed by the the things he's doing for us with his work but I know there are some people that will say the bar is too low elliot that's not good enough so how do we evaluate a striker who's not amongst the goals in this game yeah i'm a bit worried about our strikers

55:54Elliot:at the moment our forwards because we're missing three really good ones four if you include jesus but we know it's a bit longer term and that has an impact on the others that are left so the four that are left you know the only ones that get rotated really are martin ellie and trotter They've had brighter games recently because they've been rotating. This is what we will get in the future from Jokeres and Saka. Mate, well, this was so a non-imadweke day yesterday, given what we knew about Saka. And the moment you saw it, you think, oh, mate, you're just there nominally at the moment, you know?

56:25Elliot:And so the brightest people on the day was Trossard and Eze. You know, they had the much more bright contributions to the match. And so what did we end up with Jokeres? Well, Jokeres had the full caravan out in this game, you know? and you just feel that some of these runs are really important for us to get up the pitch, but some of them are quite basic. You know they're coming. So what defenders are doing is they're dropping off like you would do. No pressure on the ball, you drop off, and you win the race. And people say, oh, he hasn't got there. My YouTube clips show me in Portugal, he won all those races on my YouTube clip.

57:01Elliot:Lacroix is pretty quick. I think he's a bit quicker than Otter Mendy, who was playing for Ben Viga last season. you know and um and so that's the difference in level but that doesn't mean he can't be effective for us because we're not being trapped you know in the lower third of the pitch anymore there's a classic one late in the game we were being trapped a bit nervy martin nelly just hooks it down our left hand side um jocquez is in behind onto it wins the race and we i think we get where we get control of the game again and the pressure just goes away the ability to do that you just you forget that we had Marino and a non-running in behind Havertz because a lot of the time he was asked to come to the ball to create an ex-midfielder and our wingers ran in behind because people blocked off our wingers, we all know what happens, when that happens we get nullified, so we have something, so he has improved our pattern now my heart when I'm watching him, he's not as encouraged as it was early in the season when he looked fresher you know, the ball it all feels a little bit slow at the moment a little bit clunky, but we're asking a hell of a lot of him.

58:08Elliot:And I will caveat that because I have seen him fresh. And I go back to the Port Vale game, which he sat down for. And then he went to the Newcastle game at the weekend. And Tim, you were there. And none of us are questioning his performance in that game up against the second best defence in the league, I think, as time record, I'm not sure. And he ran them ragged with real physicality and freshness and speed. so once I've seen it I know it's there then I'll ask myself a question why is it not there a few games later because he's played every single game and almost all the minutes every single game and he's just not fresh at the moment doesn't look sharp looks all the things that people don't rate him he looks all those things on occasions yet he's incredibly important to this group and they need him they need that player at the moment and the game fine enough when we looked at strikers at Ekiteke Sesko So Jokeres, the way the Premier League has developed this year with direct play, we have the right one for us.

59:11Elliot:Do you know what I mean? Because we have that guy. Eketike is not doing what Jokeres is going to do for us. He's much more high touch, dribbling, carrying, drops away from centre-back, say, do you want to follow me? And then gets on it and then goes one, two combinations. We've got players that can do that. You know, so we don't need that. We haven't got this guy that's really direct, that's really going to get people off us. What we're trying to do is create depth in our team so we have more space to play in. And he creates depth better than Cesco, better than all the others. He's perfect for us, you know.

59:46And it sounds crazy.

59:48Elliot:A young Callum Wilson is perfect for this Premier League football. Run down the side, channel runner. That's just what you want, you know. A young Jamie Varley will be sitting here today thinking, oh my God, the Premier League is now playing my football. I would just kill it. And what we have is Jamie Farsi with about two extra kg on him. That's what we have. But critically important to our overall pattern of play. So when Havertz comes back, Elliot, I think he'll be playing much more like Jokerez than the old Havertz because we'll be asking him to do very similar things. Yeah, I mean, only Zuby and Gabby have more minutes in all comps and it's like 20 or 30 more minutes.

1:00:27He's played a lot of minutes a season. So following Port Vale, where he played 20 minutes, he went 90 against Newcastle, 90 against Olympiacos, 90 against West Ham, 90 for Sweden, 90 for Sweden, 89 against Fulham, 82 against Atleti, 90 against Palace. It's a lot of football. And I mean, that's the job, but I don't think that would have been the plan. You know, I mean, I don't think that was the plan. And you saw it in this game. I mean, like, Bukayo Saki, sometimes I think we're guilty when a player doesn't have a good game of going, oh, they're clearly not fit. this was definitely a game you like with Bakayosaki you just see he's not right and Mikkel said after the game Saka he's been ill he has not trained we didn't know he was going to be able to play he managed to play a few minutes but the longer the game went he was going to fatigue and we didn't want to risk injury so yeah that just is what it is and there are games Tim I do think where you know whatever you want to say about our open play goal creation when your best player Saka is not fit and ill and has to come off and you don't have Nani and you don't have Kai and you and you're sort of running out of players, and Declan Rice is said to come off, and Saliba's come off at halftime, where if you think you can trust your shape to hold a 1-0, that may be better than trying to get fatigued or half-injured or rotated players to win you the game.

1:01:45Because by the end of the game, I'm starting to look at this, and I'm saying, from a talent standpoint, we start the game with a massive talent advantage. We end the game in a much closer contest from a talent standpoint. and as the talent starts to level out if you want to go toe-to-toe with that team you can get chin so discretion can be the better part of valor but i do want to just talk about how we how we finish the game with some interesting performances from people came on and the one that deserves a little credit i think is mascara because clive had mentioned this in his voice note took me a few minutes into the second half i had to run and do something at halftime so i got back just in time for the second half to start and i didn't realize mascara had come on it took me a few minutes.

1:02:23I mean, he may not be Saliba, but at the moment right now, when he comes on, he gives tremendous comfort and I think just ease of mind when he's on the pitch. He looks very comfortable. So another assured performance from Mascara for me. Do you agree? Yeah, absolutely. And that is like a huge compliment that you kind of don't notice that Saliba is not there, not just because of the quality of Saliba, but for a center half, that's so difficult, I think, to come in and pick up the rhythm of a game. I've always said I think being a backup centre-back is one of the most difficult positions you can be in in a squad.

1:03:01We saw it with Kibior, right, all the time. It would take a couple of games. Once he got two or three games under his belt, he always looked like pretty much part of the furniture to me. But remember that Bournemouth game about this time last year? It might have been this exact weekend last year. Of course not. and and kibior came on and there were mistakes and you know which i'm not having a go at him about but because i think that's quite natural i think what mascara is doing is not very natural in terms of coming on but not just that as well you know like at the end we lost rice and califuri as well that's three big players for our defensive stability we lost and we lost two of them at the same time um and it was quite interesting when lewis skelly came on for ezzer i was thinking oh he's coming on in midfield and then it was like nope this is this is rob holding five three two that's kind of stuff which which you get like on on a kind of one-off basis which i think this was with the players that we'd lost and the way the game had gone i you know i i don't want necessarily long term to see a return to the rob holding coming on holding five fingers up kind of substitution because i i think i think that will bite you after a while so i'm i'm happy to stick a pin in it and say yeah okay we our stability was was interrupted in a game where we didn't flow that much but you know I said this um after the game last week like the subs on the bench defenders like White, Hinkpe, Muscara, Lewis Skelly that's a great back four in its own right and we had to get some of them on the pitch so you know Hinkpe had to come on to to make his debut basically certainly his home debut and and and actually maybe there was a little hint there the fact that we did finish with a back five and and he is someone a bit like Calafiore who's played on the outside pin of a back three before so you know maybe it's it's just another option there to close out games again don't want to see it all the time but you think of losing players like Tomi Asu and Jorginho in the summer I think those are guys who generally have been very good at coming on and closing out games for us Norgard I think he we didn't even bring him on could have brought him on for Rice for example so you know like in terms of our defensive stability I think what's so pleasing about it is that it isn't dependent on individuals we can bring other people into that back line we can sit other people in front of that back four and still look very very stable and it's not because we're sticking 10 behind the ball okay we we probably did for the last kind of few minutes of this game but just everyone knows their job i think that's what really sticks out and and obviously the quality someone like mascara but an absolute revelation i listened to the pod you did with phil last week rankings and phil had him as like the second best signing and like like so far obviously um from the summer and yeah at first i was a bit like really and then actually when phil explained it i was like yeah actually what what he's doing is pretty incredible and the context in which he's doing it is is seriously impressive but i i would also go back to you know what i was saying earlier about gabrielle like we kind of lost a lot of and timber as well like those guys that don't come off that do stay on you know that they have a bit more to do when like players are going off injured around them to hold it together it's just i so i'll finish this ramble with i'd really advise people to look up micah richards analysis after the fulham game on match of the day he was looking at how quickly the arsenal players run back.

1:06:47Like he highlighted a couple of Fulham breaks and he's like, this is three on three. And then he counts like one, two, three, four, all 11 players are back. And that's really what gives us a lot of stability as well. Everyone just works so hard. Yeah. I mean, in the ninth minute when Mateta beats Saliba to that long ball, that's in sort of the left channel. And Timber is the one who comes across and cleans that up all the way from right back. Timbers again he's just in the wars he he was the most fouled player he won a ton of duels he had a dribble he's got to get up there and support Saka he's got to get back and clean everything up and I I think it tells you a a little bit about where Ben White is just in his physical capacity right now and the importance of Timber that you know we started bringing on all kinds of defenders but Ben White there was no room for him to come on in this game and you know Timber's not coming off the pitch um and it's funny because you look at the summer and you're like why are we buying like mascara and in capier what are we doing in this game we finished with mascara on and in capier on and miles lewis skellion you know we we had to um i do have a quick laugh at the marino cameo which i thought you know in part was just absolutely horrific uh he was one of five passing it seems like every time he got the ball he gave it away but two headed clearances and a dual one you know he's he's there to keep the game safe and he did it's just funny that's what he was on to do He was on to get the ball away from the area, be a nuisance, try and buy a foul.

1:08:13It was almost like Jill Scott in the Euros a couple of years ago for England had that role. Yeah, when England took the lead on 10 minutes with 10 minutes to go, it's like just getting everyone's faces, get some fouls, annoy people. He was there to be a pest, basically. yeah and i said this but it feels like the last couple of seasons i can point to those days those weekends especially last week oh is it was it the villa game last season where there's a chance the the the leading team or the other teams in the title race have dropped points and this is your chance this is where you steal a march and we've let those moments go we've we've missed the opportunity to to gain ground or put distance between us and the chasing pack on a critical weekend where they dropped points and this was a weekend where Liverpool had dropped points their fourth loss in a row really try to capitalize on that and put them down and City are in the process of losing and you've got the one goal lead and to see that out I think it is such a big test of character and display of character and it's easy to critique oh they only won one no they didn't great enough.

1:09:24The other two supposed title pretenders lost. That's worse, it turns out. And Arteta said, I told the boys that I value this victory more than any other victory this season. You know, and I get it. And he says, because we knew the difficulty of it after playing every three days. We had a big opportunity as well with the things that happened during the weekend. And I knew we played against a team that, in my opinion, has been one of the best recently in terms of organization, how difficult they make it, how frustrated they can make you. And the moment that you lose that concentration, they will punish you.

1:09:59We have managed to be very stable playing the game that we have to play. In the first half, we were a bit stuck, but we found a way to score a goal. And in the second half, we attacked better, were more fluent. But with one nil, we knew that we had to suffer because a team has to score goals to beat any other opponent this season. So to keep the clean sheets very important. And this is the thing for me, Clive. if you're a big club you have to be good at attacking you have to but a lot of clubs that are good at attacking don't enjoy defending don't enjoy suffering don't enjoy keeping the other team out and this is the first arsenal team in a long time i i mean this team of the last few seasons but this team in particular as well that doesn't seem to mind suffering and keeping the opposition out there is a celebration of it and an enjoyment of it the the way at the end there when mascara and Gabby and Marino and Jokras are in their own box heading away and slapping each other on the back.

1:10:50I mean, this was a big test of character. And some games it's a big test of quality. This game was a big test of character, and it's a test we passed.

1:10:59Elliot:Yeah, not much more I can say, Terry. I think this team is focused on winning games by any means necessary. And at the moment, our defensive numbers are the ones that people are highlighting. but you know we're top of the XG table until we're doing okay in other parts of the game but you know what this game was about something else and these are the points this season we haven't always managed really well and people then laugh and say that we're bottlers etc and they're still waiting for us to fall down right now because trust and also are not too much that really coexist in the same sentence to the outside world so there are a couple of things you can see and when I'm in the ground I see what I see and I tell you what I see when I watch it on the telly, I see something else.

1:11:44Elliot:It's a really interesting moment in the game. When Rice is down late in the game and he was injured, he got a knock on his Achilles, back of his ankle, and he was sort of talking to the physio. And then Gabriel and Timber come over. They're like the Warriors, right? They come over. So the three of them together, good luck getting past those three, right? Rice, Gabriel, and Timber. And they know what they are, right? They are the front men. They are the bouncers. They are it, right? And the two of them come over to Rice. They say, you're right. And he's pointing at his leg. You sure? You sure you need to go?

1:12:17Elliot:It's like, we need to hold on here. And he almost had to almost get an excuse to leave the class. Do you know what I mean? Leave the class. It felt like that. And it's like, we're in this together. You're right. You sure? Like this. And then Reno comes on. And this is where I'm completely different. Reno and Hincapie come on. And, well, they just take it all up. No, it weren't pretty. but mate there's a diving header from hincapi late in the box like he'd been here for 80s i thought who's that just flew out you know who's that and we're all looking at our programs who was that you know like he just sort of flew out i thought what you're gonna do for me can you just throw your head in there and then uh marino clear as that that box clearance and late in the second half they ragdoll gabriel about at the front zone and so i'm thinking oh crikey he's gone past him and marina just jumps out of the jumps out of his boots out of nowhere and just heads away clean there for the seconds all there for the seconds crush that central zone they're designed to this those recovery runs that you speak about then just run back in straight lines they run back to zone 14 knowing that's where they're going to come back to and they get there and overwhelm people centrally the covering running angles are excellent the defensive commitment is top of the top of the scale.

1:13:35Elliot:And I think they're starting to enjoy it. I think they know where they are defensively. And now it's become a cause. And until we get those attackers back, it needs to be a cause. Because we saw in this game where we are attacking-wise. And people, they talked about how we're overcoming it without realising our deficiencies in this space with the lack of personnel. And we need them back so badly. You know, that's going to be my thing this week. When are they coming back? So we can be defined as a team both sides of the ball, shall we say, more clearly. Not that I'm bothered about our outward perceptions I used to be, because this team is bothered about winning.

1:14:17Elliot:And so I'm with them however we do it. Yeah, that's it. I mean, let me just break the bad news to you. Whatever we do, if we win, there's going to be a critique of how we won. and if we lose, there's going to be critique that we're not actually the title contenders we thought we were. So it's your decision whether to zero in on it or not. Let me tell you what was guaranteed. Ebrecha, as it was going to score against Palace, and we were going to win 1-0 with George Graham in the stands. Those were the two things that were guaranteed. So, you know, we got it. It was Arsenal heritage. It's a huge win, and this is the thing.

1:14:55There are going to be fun-flowing days. I mean, people act, oh, Arsenal, boring Arsenal. We just beat Atleti 4-0. It's like people's memories are goldfish short. When there's a chance to play, we play. When there's not a chance to play, we find a way through. You know, there is a versatility and a resilience to this team, but we do need our players fit, Tim. And I think where this podcast ends is with a quick look ahead and a question about what is realistic. This is where I say the thing that drives everybody crazy. I care about two things this season, the Champions League and the Premier League.

1:15:27they're the only two things I care about. And that does not mean I'm telling other people not to care about other stuff. But Mikel Arteta obviously had to take Saka off in this game ill. Saliba came off in this game. He said it was two things. Rice, he said, I'm not sure if it's his calf or his Achilles. Neither of those things sounds great to me. Hopefully he's fibbing. So Rice came off. Saliba came off. Saka came off. Kai's not fit. Nani's not fit. Odegaard's not fit. And we play Brighton in the League Cup in midweek. at some point no matter how much you want to puff out your chest and say trophies matter you have to look at what's on offer for us and decide how willing you are to take risks with a beautiful season that's developing here so for me this brighton game is about given all the players minutes who haven't had minutes it's about incappier it's about miles if you want to play him it's about mascara it's about ben white it's about ethan it could be about max if you want it to be it's about nor guard marino i'd say not yokaris but i genuinely have no idea what else what else we do yeah and martinelli's now injured too so maybe it can't be him but i'm telling you and i look i'm being unrealistic the idea that mikhail is going to make 11 changes i mean maybe he will because he won't have a choice but am am i being my silly typical nonsensical elliot and this is a cop and we shouldn't dismiss it how do you feel about this Wednesday again?

1:16:50No, I'm all up for playing, you know, quote-unquote the second XI. I think they're good anyway. I think there are players who need the minutes, keeps people involved, and that's all good. Like, there are seven or eight positions we've got, no problem. Kep is going to play, great. Back four is going to be White, Mascara, Hincapié, and Hincapié, sorry, and Lewis Skelly, and then we're going to have Norgard in front of them. Like, back there, we know what's going to happen. Mikel Moreno is probably going to have to play up front, I think. So that brings, so I think Eze might play. And actually, I'm kind of all right with that in terms of his continued progression into the team.

1:17:36Hopefully he doesn't get injured, but I don't think the minutes will hurt him at all. But then we've got some decisions to make because of the amount of forwards we've got missing. and this is where it gets dicey because when you try and select your team for Brighton on Wednesday those players are reeled off you get through very easily when you get into the wide positions one of Saka or Delman has to start because there's nobody else right so that that's a decision that has to be made I you know maybe I'm sure the way Arteta looked at that Port Vale it was Saka that started but you got him off on 60 minutes and they kind of shared between Saka and Dalman which I kind of imagined they'd want to do here but at the same time away at Port Vale that's a very different thing because you can make that plan thinking we're probably going to be ahead on 60 minutes so we probably can bring Dalman in probably not going to might not be the case against Brighton we might be trailing we might be drawing and and so you know some of those decisions kind of have to be made as well but in attack we do have a lot of injuries at the moment and we're not quite at the running out of players stage but we're getting relatively close particularly like because we're going to have to play marino up front really which takes away perhaps a little bit of midfield rotation so i think there's eight or nine spots there's no problem but there's there's a couple of decisions that i think either way people are probably not going to like and actually when you look at it, there aren't a lot of choices for who's going to play on the right wing, for example.

1:19:10Yeah. And Brighton are good and they could come to the Emirates and win against our full strength side. I don't think they would, but they could. They're a good team. If we go with a weakened team, there's a chance we get knocked out of this cup. Now I'll keep my counsel on what I think about that possibly happening, but I've always said it, Clive. This season is going to be evaluated on two cups, the Premier League title and the Champions League. And everything else is a nice to have. Would I take an FA Cup and a League Cup with it too? Of course. But it's what we do in the first two I mentioned that's how we're going to evaluate Mikel, this group, and this project.

1:19:50So given the injuries, you know, it's going to be an interesting decision for Mikel. Now, you could say, well, Burnley away is not the toughest fixture. Sunderland, I think, is the other game we have away before the international break, and that's looking increasingly like a really, really stiff test. They were fantastic again this weekend. So it is the case for me, and the Slavia Prague game away in Europe is never easy, but it's manageable. So it's four games where maybe more rotation will be possible than would have been under other circumstances. But how would you approach this one? You're Mikel Arteta saying, Clive, you picked the team.

1:20:32You tell me how to set up for it. How would you approach this?

1:20:35Elliot:I'd rotate as much as possible for this one. I'd look at this game. I love you. And the Slavia-Pra game is almost like games where those players are going to get a lot of minutes in those games. And that's how I would sell the squad rotation to them. I think it's important that they do feel involved. hey mate I I'm not a fan of the League Cup never have been for a long time and the two-legged semi-final in January now the Champions League are two games in January I'm not I'm not up for that at all you know if there is a nice way where we could go out I would take it even though I'm going to be there I don't want to say I want Arsenal to lose a game of football but I want to see everybody play but what I don't want to see is when we go to Burnley and Southern which are going to be really, really hard games.

1:21:22Elliot:We have a group of attackers that are overplayed in the moment and we need to score goals to win these games at a time when Liverpool and City are playing each other in the next couple of weeks. There's a lot of our rivals playing each other. We need to be winning those two league games because if we do, we can have a proper conversation about where we are in the league, what our potential is, are we going to win it? And with players returning, big players returning to this group, we're in a really strong position. If we do not focus our minds on the league games coming up, we have a situation where we can be questioned again.

1:21:57You know,

1:21:58Elliot:if we overplay somebody and they get a proper injury, we can be questioned again. I don't want no questions being raised, that have been raised in previous years for a League Cup game against Brighton. And I can't have that. So no risks, no risks at all. Burnley away is going to be another 4-5-1 game. We know the drill. We saw what happened. Was it City that scored in the last minute with a penalty against them? Or was it Liverpool coming very recently? Liverpool. Liverpool, thank you, Tim. And so basically… Well, I saw Tim first, right? I remember one thing ever, and I can't even get a lot in sports.

1:22:37Elliot:And I remember thinking, crikey, they look quite good in that game. And Sunderland, they fancy themselves, and they've given themselves room to have a go. you know real you know great exercising recruitment at Sunderland so these can be two really hard games you know and so protect our offensive power protect our freshness because I think we're going to need that edge of freshness and Sunderland not traveling anywhere in Europe neither are Burnley you know and I keep saying it but there are nine out of 20 teams in Europe this season Palace had been away and so we were able to edge it against them you know so so yeah it could be a tough two league game that's where my mind is at the moment I'd say about that just to add to that Clive like Sunderland Burnley we might have to be bringing people off the bench again to either see the game out or win it for us and if they've played against Brighton on Wednesday all the better how many times have we seen that by the way like someone who perhaps hasn't been involved gets a League Cup game then the next league game they come and do something for you yeah yeah well and if you want Mikel to start trusting Ethan more for example like give him the Brighton game for goodness sake you know what I mean like this is a player who's got the quality I thought he had a really nice little cameo against Atleti in midweek like give him the Brighton game and let him show that he's ready for more responsibility the but and by the way with Sunderland just to say it because I think it's funny like there's a gambling scandal going on in the NBA and the way Chelsea defended against Sunderland for their winner I thought maybe someone needs to look at that because it was horrendous defending.

1:24:09So funny. No idea what they were doing. Can't wait to hear Phil on the 30 with Andrew talking about that. But guys, whatever you think of the League Cup, can I please just point you to the fact that the next two weekends of Premier League football could genuinely decide the title? I'm not trying to be dramatic, he says, being dramatic. But just hear me out for a minute. Liverpool play Villa. City play Bournemouth. All right, both of them are at home. Two very difficult fixtures. We're at Burnley. Then when we're at Sunderland, City and Liverpool play each other. Okay? This is no screwing around time.

1:24:53This is six points required, and you will find yourself, if we can win the next two fixtures, we will find ourselves at least eight or nine or ten points ahead of Liverpool or City or both going into the next international break. You cannot risk that because you're hell-bent on progression in the League Cup. And I will just say one thing where I would disagree with Clive, which is dangerous. I think we're going to be absolutely full strength against Slavia Prague. I really do. I don't think Champions League rotation is as common as we think. and the reason I think we'll go full strength against Slavia Prague is you've got to bank the points you can bank because there's Bayern and Inter coming.

1:25:37And you want to make those games not needed to finish top eight. And if we beat Slavia Prague and we beat Kairat Almaty, the Inter and Bayern games will be nice to haves, but not has to haves. But if we do have an accident in Prague, that sounds like the title of some kind of spy novel, The Accident in Prague by Clive Kessler. But if we do have an accident in Prague, suddenly the enter of the Bayern game becomes much more important. So this is your chance to rotate. This is your chance to have a rested and ready Yokores. He's got to be rested. He has to. This is your chance to make sure Saka's healthy.

1:26:16Rice, Saliba, I don't even know where we are with him. So there's a lot of things that need to be determined, but we will see. But for right now, an incredible weekend capped off by an Arsenal victory that sees us in pole position for the league and clearly has the media seething as they try to explain why we're not pretty enough for them. Well, someone who has spent his life not being pretty enough, they can go fuck themselves. I think we can leave it there. We will have a whole week of phenomenal patron content. We'd love to have you over there. Friday night, Clive should be back this Friday.

1:26:44I anticipate that's always fun. We'll do another office hours soon. We'll have a main pod on Thursday. For those of you who just want to do that, give us a five-star review or give us a one-star review that you email to pause. Either way, we would love to have your review. Thank you for tolerating us again. Clive, thank you. Thank you very much. Tim, thanks. My pleasure as always. And please remember that when Clive asked which game it was where Burnley lost on a late penalty, I was the one who answered and knew the game that I remembered. I do want to say, by the way, both of you, I have to pick a bone with both of you really quickly.

1:27:17The Newcastle. The Newcastle game. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where were you, Tim? Do you know what? I didn't expect this is going to sound like an excuse, and it kind of is i kind of meant in a home game and i realized when i listened back afterwards that i didn't say that but but i meant like where if we go one nil down at home and the crowd gets antsy and that that's more what i was thinking about does that cover me i think so i saw i i

1:27:43Elliot:knew about newcastle game but i thought you meant going forward when we go one nil down again what's going to happen you know so so i sort of explained it away in my mind that way because that is something And I was texting. There's something in my mind. In my mind, when we go 1-0 down again, it's going to be interesting to see what happens, right? Because we haven't conceded a goal for a long time, right? So when we conceded a shot, people are getting edgy. So in this game, we conceded one shot, was it? But I don't think it was a shot or one. And so, yeah, that's why I am. So I'm with you, Tim.

1:28:15Elliot:Elliot, you can do that. For those people wondering what the hell we're talking about, a couple of pods ago, Tim said, you know, I'm curious to see how we respond if we go 1-0 down. We haven't had that test yet. And as Tim just explained, he meant at home. We obviously had that test. The Newcastle game, I would have corrected Tim, but I felt it would have been rude to do so. He says lying. But it is funny because Tim obviously is the guy who can tell you what the score of our second League Cup game last season was. I don't know who he played. I don't know what the score was. Tim, do you know? Who did we play in the League Cup?

1:28:44We played Preston in the fourth round of the League Cup and won 3-0. What's going on? This just doesn't make any sense to me. I love it. I love podcasting with these guys. I'm very, very lucky that they tolerate me and my idiocy. All right. Now we can leave it there. We love you and we will talk to you after Arsenal 10. You know.

1:29:23Thank you.