Arsenal Worryingly Outclassed in Cup Final Defeat

25:58Elliot:He's good enough. He's good. For five million quid, he's decent. Yeah, for five million quid, he's a good enough backup keeper. And I've always said second fridge, who cares? But where he definitely isn't David Raya is his distribution and the ball at his feet. And I think Kepa's presence made that four-man screen approach that City employed that we struggled to solve, that we increasingly were frustrated by and did not have an answer for. It made it more effective because if Raya's in there, he's just chipping passes to the fullbacks. He's pinging balls between two of those players into Saka when he dropped in or into whoever's rotating in, whether it's Rice.

26:34And Kepa couldn't do that. and I think the more the ball was at his feet and the less we had an answer for it the more city could squeeze up and eventually start to just take the ball back from us from halftime till they scored they had 80 percent possession I actually heard Andrew mention that on the arse cast 80 percent of the ball from halftime to this score and that was the period where that four-man screen we just we didn't have an answer for it so unfortunately I think Kepp was part of it and I actually wonder Mikel said one of his biggest regrets in football is not subbing a keeper Well, at 55 minutes when it was clear we couldn't get out, there was a part of me thinking, here's your chance, mate.

27:08So how did Kepa, before we get to his error, how did Kepa not being able to solve that four-man screen or help solve that four-man screen cause the game to turn, in your view?

27:19Elliot:Yeah, so where I was standing, I could just see we were struggling to get out. I couldn't see a four-man screen as clearly as you did. I just saw lots of players down the middle, and every time we looked to go to one side, they would shift across and block the passes to the fullback and shift across the other side. They seem to have every single pass covered. And this is where our goalkeeper is really, really good. So in hindsight, when you start to see screenshots flying around your Twitter, you can say things like, there were moments there we could have chipped it over the top. So Kepa's not bad at his feet, but he's not as good as David Reyes, so it's incomparable.

27:52Elliot:Again, Pep played a team that we had on the pitch. I didn't see that coming last week. you know I know all we were doing our previews because I haven't seen Pepa sorry Kepa look I just haven't seen him not say exposed but maybe exposed his limitations were exposed he's decent on the ball but Daddy Rare is exceptional on the ball exceptional so we become accustomed to chip passes with spin on them you know or drive balls down the line like bullets arriving on time we've become accustomed to them kept us much better on the board than Adam Ramsdale was. Much better. But he's not as good as David Rea.

28:33Elliot:And so, and Pep played it. He played it perfectly. And I think it was a, I've often called Kai Havertz and Rea our two most tactically important players because they solved the most problems for us. But Rea wasn't there. Kai Havertz wasn't really there. He wasn't himself. So straight away, technically, we lack solutions. You know, And so the Kepa thing, one of Mikel Arteta's key fundamental principles are his non-negotiables. And one of them is respect. There's a level of respect that he has, the way he runs his dressing room on his pillars, that made me think the first time you asked me that question, which goalkeeper is playing, I knew the answer in 2.2 seconds.

29:18Elliot:You know, it was always going to be Kepa. Because that's what happens in this competition. It's the fourth competition. and people are going to say well Arsenal need to win a trophy you should play your best team you are in your right to say that now tactically in this game Raya was the perfect player to play in this game for this scenario that played in front of us especially with tactical security missing already right I mean with no Ezzo with no Odegaard right we had players out who can get on the ball so you need that you needed that extra outfielder sort of who could be on the ball and Raya can be that in a way Kepa can yeah he's transformed our team Raya has he's transformed it he's educated me he's given up a level he's given us a plus one every time we play you know so we were normalized in this game we're like most other teams that play us the teams we struggled against are people with really good goalkeepers aston billow with martinez on the ball you know by me in it with noia on the ball really good personality keepers we've got one and he is our one of our plus points and tricks and we didn't have him on the day and to me it was always going to happen would i have done it you know maybe you know when you're managing people you have to be true to them every time we log on to our systems right and we see the inside training videos and we see all the happiness and the joy and the the the way the players are with each other they want to spend time with each other what do you think drives that culture people that don't treat people with a level of respect now whether you rate kepper or not and i'm not about to hear be part number one a kepper fan club doesn't matter whether you rate him or not he's part of this group and the manager's always going to manage a group based on his principles and he's he's done all right so far in hindsight we would always all of us would pick the other guy, knowing what we now know.

31:09Elliot:But I don't think, and by the way, some people wanted Rade to play before the game, so that's fine. But I do think the way this game unfolded tactically, I do think there's a little bit of after-timers on this. I thought City played as well, and our goalkeeper's limitations were massively exposed on the day. Yeah. Mikel, on picking Kepa, by the way, I have to do what I feel is right, which is honest and which is fair. And I think we have an understanding goalkeeper in Kepa. He's played all the games in the competition. I think it would have been very unfair for him and for the team to do something different.

31:45I mean, you can choose to roll your eyes at it. You can choose to agree or disagree. It is simply the decision you took. It's not you, is it?

31:54Elliot:I've seen this with Fabianski and Chesney. I thought, we've got to play Chesney. He, look at him. And then we end up playing Fabianski and winning the games. No one was worried. He just got to win, right? Mikel once again pointed to a missed chance. And so I'm going to say two contradictory things about this. He says, let's see, there were different moments in the game. In the first half, I think we had some really good moments, and I think we're the better team. We had the biggest chance of the game by far that we should have been 1-0 up, and that would have changed the course of the game. So here's what I want to say on this.

32:24When you have about two chances in the whole game, talking about a missed chance is a bit rich. I've said that in the past. the job isn't to have two chances and take them both the job is to have 20 chances and hopefully take two or three of them um we didn't play well we got outclassed completely but where i agree with michelle is cup finals aren't just regular games they're moments games two big moments in this game keppa chucking it in his net that gets city in front and crushed us and yeah we were under the caution we we may have conceded otherwise i get it but that's a big moment and the other big moment is Kai not scoring when he's in.

33:01And I will even add to that because I haven't seen a lot of people talking about it. Piero and Capier having a completely free header five or six yards out from a corner kick on the back post. I mean, when I say unmarked, there wasn't a city player within two yards of either side of him. He could have stood there. He could have taken it down and walked it in. I mean, he's wide open at the back post. So it's a bigger chance that people think. But the Kai missed to me, Clive. Zubamendi, who a lot of people are going after. Brilliant little ball. I mean, white, lovely angled pass into Zubamendi. Zubamendi, quick decision into Kai.

33:35Kai times has run well. And that's a turning point, obviously, because you get your nose in front there. And I think the confidence grows, and I think the tactics have to change a bit for City, but not able to do it.

33:47Elliot:Yeah, up the other end, but I've seen it since, just this morning, and boy, that was a big chance. and I watched the way Kai approached that chant. And for the Kai critics out there, he didn't really approach that with any sort of conviction. He just stepped into it with just hardly any aggression. Passed it at the keeper. Clicked towards the keeper. And then, I think we had three chances in that little period. And you look at the TV again, look at the clips again, you watch Kai coming back and he puts his head in his hands. he knows he hasn't dealt with that correctly. You know, you can miss a chance, but you've done everything right.

34:27Elliot:But you can miss a chance of thinking, I messed that up. I haven't really gone for it. You know, it was early. I haven't really gone for it. Credit to Trafford, by the way, does well in that sequence overall because Saka gets a couple of bites at the apple too. And like, we got also unlucky. Like, Trafford gets all of them. None of them spill to any Arsenal player. There's chaos in the box. They all just rebound to exactly where they need to go. Yeah, he's a good keeper, by the way. He's unlucky not to be their first choice, but he's not quite ready yet. The manager recognized it and brought Donnarumma in.

34:56Elliot:And Donnarumma's obviously big time, big money, big time. And Trafford will get his moment in time because he'll stay around because he's just had his moment and won his first medal. So he's going to be a big time keeper and he'll be the England's next keeper. He's really, really good. But we didn't approach that correctly. And I didn't see the Hincapi one earlier. I must have wiped from my brain. and so I've got even more regrets I haven't seen it yet but we didn't approach it right and it is important and the manager's been calling out missed chances he called out Martin and the other couple these things are important you're quite right to say but we tend to linger on these things because we don't make enough chances I'm not going to argue with you because there's numbers out there on our open play chance creation etc but when we do make chances like this I think we have to be better and more ruthless.

35:50Elliot:And it's something that's concerned me for a while. We may not have the most superstar set of forwards in the league, but when we have these moments, we have to be better at taking them because they define how we play. When Arsenal scored first, we're normally okay. When City scored first in this game, my heart sank when it scored second. I knew it was over. I've been watching Arsenal for 40 years. I think I've left the stadium early, maybe under a handful of times, and this was one of them. Because I just knew it was over. Hopefully it's Wembley, right? Go get out of there. It's very difficult.

36:25Elliot:You also don't want to watch them celebrating. I do not leave stadiums, right? And I left, and I felt ashamed, but I just had to get out of there because we were neutered. We were humbled, and it was quite humbling in that second half. But that's how I felt at the time. But I feel better today. Yeah, well, look, I think if the Kepa decision is one that is a, I mean, it just is a pivot point in this game. It is a fulcrum. But, like, he obviously makes two errors, actually. He makes the error where he gets caught out of his box and pulls Doku back, and it felt like that was a momentum changer. That's a great point.

37:03Elliot:I'm just debating my son. I thought that was a major momentum changer. Because what happened, Elliot? At halftime, it was nil-nil. Okay, we're all right. The manager normally sees things, and he'll fix it. We'll be fine. I'm thinking maybe get Califurio at halftime, because Hinkapi was just like a shadow of himself. I want to talk about that. So yes, but finish your thoughts. Well, because you wanted to go to the Kepa thing first. Yeah, I just thought, okay, you do that. We get some personality on. We'll be fine. Ben's not going to last. Get Mosquera on to end the game. I know what's coming. We're going to be all right.

37:38Elliot:We're going to be all right. We start the second half. we get a corner again i can now see my team because they've been up the other end most of the game right so like i can now see my team we get a corner don't quite happen well i can't remember what happened doesn't know didn't quite happen they clear it and it goes to kepper now and he comes out and he gets booking i don't know i don't know what was happening was it a penalty i don't know what was happening but it unsettled me it unsettled him it unsettled me and i think that was a turning point and me and my boy are arguing I said no no that was a turning point for me because we were just coming out to play our game pressure territory restart tackle compact this is what we're going to do it now and it looked like it was going to happen and then that moment changed the moment went up the other end I never saw the ball for 15 minutes after that literally I didn't see it after that they just completely dominated and I I want to say because we'll we'll be talking about this over the next two weeks there are things about this game that you can just write off and throw away because of players that were missing and because it's a cup final and you know because I do think that the Kepa error there and then the Kepa error to chuck it in his net just contributed to the overall feeling about the performance but we went from halftime to their goal with 20 % possession and the only thing I will say is against Chelsea against Brighton in this game like we are starting to see patterns in periods of games where this team can't pass to an Arsenal player, where we do not keep the ball, we cannot get to three or four passes.

39:14We were averaging one pass per minute for about 20 minutes. Talk about get to five passes. Can you get to two passes? And we couldn't. And that is something that short-term we can't fix. But long-term, you know, Tim made this point, and Paul made this point. I think it's a really good point. Every summer, you know, Mikel has a game or a moment or a hurt or a pain that he says, I'm going to fix that. I'm going to address that, right? I think we've swung the pendulum a little too far in one direction with this team. And I think this summer, we've got to add some really elite on-ball technicians, small space, clever players.

39:49I think we need more of that. I think we need the ability to get back to having 80 % of the ball in 20 and 30-minute periods, not 20 % of the ball, and praying we can resist. Because that's a position we got in against Brighton. We got in against Chelsea. We got in against City. and I thought a big decision for Mikel that he got wrong, if I may dare say that. I think Incappier was unlucky to get his yellow card. I do. And I think Bernardo Silva should have gotten one. So I think the refereeing was a little uneven. But regardless, when he got his yellow card, he started to sink from the game a little bit.

40:20They targeted him a bit. But he's, however much you love Incappier, and I love him, he's been great, he's not Califiori on the ball. And I thought at halftime, get someone on who's a little stronger on the ball, take off that fear point around Incappia being on a yellow. I thought Cal Fiore coming on sooner could have prevented what we saw at the start of the second half, Clive. We needed someone else who could come on and give us some technical security. And I just think we were way too slow. At 55 minutes, you could feel it coming. There was a moment, there was a stoppage at 55, and he was getting Cal Fiore ready, he was getting Nani ready.

40:53And I thought, yep, do it now. And he didn't. And by the time he did, it was two goals too late.

40:59Elliot:Yeah, part of the learning. I think there's potential to do that at halftime. I know it sounds crazy, but it's a final. I don't care. When you feel something, in a final, it's normally magnified by 10. You want to win. You travel to these games. People travel a long way for these events. You need to win. And so you need to do things. Not like you normally do. You need to do it differently. So there's a definite halftime window that was missed. You know my thoughts on that. Califiori's, sorry, Hink-Happies had a great month. He mightn't be our player of the month. he'd been really really good but he wasn't himself on this day and all the danger came down the right hand side he was not himself he did not have his best game because he was unable to be good defensively and attacking wise we needed something else we need to change the shape of the game and I think Mikel missed one there at half time particularly without the attacking mids that he normally would have we needed more on ball personality the obvious substitution was kind of it was obvious and when he came on he just made that look so ridiculous didn't he he came on and said well this is what you could have won you could have started with me because he don't care he goes and he rotates some really good analysis about Man City's rotation and we didn't do any of that like we normally do we stood and watched in shape on the chalkboard as we were pre-game we stood and watched and played in played in our shape.

42:27Elliot:And this is where we don't do this. We push people on, we rotate, we drop people in, we froze. We didn't rotate, we weren't brave enough to rotate, we weren't brave enough in the moment. But these are all, I don't mean this to sound negative, because everybody listening watch the game. There's no point in flowering it up. Everyone watch the game. But these are things that are very, very fixable. Very, very fixable. With a different psychological approach to the moment. I didn't like the psychological approach to this game. I didn't feel it. I didn't like it. I hate when everyone gives us too many flowers.

43:04Elliot:Every single pundit said we'd win the game. And all it did was rile up the other team. They're thinking, hold on a minute. We've won 19 trophies in 10 years. What about us? You know, and I didn't like how we approached it. And I think that seeped into us a little bit. I thought it would just happen. And it didn't happen. And we didn't have the tools to make it happen. And then suddenly we realized we're in a fight. and we had no legs left for it. And it was a shock to me. I'll be honest with you, I like to think I can see the future in football and understand what we're doing, where we're going and why we do certain things.

43:36Elliot:It became real apparent real quick we had the wrong team on the pitch, the wrong mentality, the wrong approach. But more importantly, we couldn't do the things that we're really, really good at because we were too far away from each other. So straight away, come back to your basics around passing. Passing comes from your compact shape and your ability to move around each other. If you're split apart because you're trying to work around that narrow block, your passing is going to be off. You can't just say, our passing has gone down this percentage. I bet you the days when we were really, really good, we got better passes on the pitch and our shape is really, really compact.

44:12Elliot:Simple. You know, on this day, our shape was not compact, so our passing was off. We're now under pressure, getting our heads down. Gabriel digging the ball out on his left foot, going long. flat on the ground, disconnected. We're now running in. We're now fatigued. When we have to spring into shape to go wide, we're not really springing into shape. So we're now passing to people who are half shadow marked. Oh, we don't make the pass. We're back in again. There's an explanation to it. You can't just, you know, it's not just about passing percentages, about what the other team does to you. The other team stood in our lines brilliantly.

44:49Elliot:They shadow marked one, knowing to spring to the other. Nunez, a great example of this. He shadowed Mark Trossard, but also did Hincapie. He did two at once. I mean, someone else is going to be free to go and be really aggressive and get around people and make a foul and take a gamble by going goal side. It was just a masterclass. We were done. We were done. It's hard to say these words, right? But we were done. But I don't think I'm not going to sit here and say from January our passing chances will come down. Well, you know what? We're playing the school board. We're trying to win stuff, right?

45:26Elliot:And so that is going to happen when teams really want to stop us from winning the league. But there's a cause and effect behind why our passing is off. And that is down to our shape and our personnel and our plan on the day. And on this day, we got what we deserve. Nothing. Got to admit there's some score effect stuff to Califiori's performance. Obviously, he comes on when it's 2-0 and maybe things were changing, but it was an arrogant display of pick-me football from Calafiore in the sense of, look, Incappier has been great, boss, but look what I can do. I mean, he has a volley that nearly scores.

46:02He has a header that's really good. He had a dribble. On a day when Incappier was 63 % passing, Calafiore comes on and completes all of his passes, 100%, every single one, right? Guys step onto him. He just goes by them. And I think Incappier is excellent as a defender, but in a team that may sometimes find it hard to get on the ball and progress it and keep it. His personality to do that is Cal Fiori.

46:25Elliot:We spoke about this last week against city. You need lots of on ball personality and we didn't have, we lost our on ball personality. Some of that's injury by the way, right? But, but the problem is when you don't pick Cal Fiori and when you don't pick David Raya and you're without Odegaard and Eza and you've got to pick Yoko Ress and Kai Havertz. Like at some point you're, saying to the opposition, we're going to struggle to keep it, so you can step onto us a little bit. They worked us out. So, for example, with our fullback pairs, a lot of people say that White and Incappy is the best one, because what you do, you have your, sorry, is the word analogous?

47:04Elliot:I don't know. Analogous, yep. That's the word, yeah, thank you. Because in your mind, White's going to get up alongside Saka, and so White's really good at that, so the other guy needs to be a bit more defensive. Do you know what I mean? So people look at that. You know? Complimentary, I think is what you're saying. They compliment each other. Yeah, so basically, no one was concerned pre-game. Come on, let's be honest. We have to be intellectually honest. No one was concerned pre-game. Might have been hubris, to be fair. But when the game goes on and you're thinking, shit, man, we've got no Eze.

47:38Elliot:Saka's a bit quiet. Trust I can't find him. He's a better defender than his attacker. I tell you what, we need a bit of Calafiori. We all think the same. We all do. A lot of people at half-time were having a drink, saying, our left-hand side, someone came up to me, I don't remember his name, he came up to me, and he just simplified it beautifully. He said, Clive, he said, it's about time we have some on our left-hand side one day. Just have some on our left side. And I sort of smiled at him, had a drink, and smiled at him and said, well, sometimes the simplest thing to say is, really, really true.

48:15Elliot:This team is a right-handed bias team. And the right-hand side is not really working at the moment. And the left-hand side, until KF Fury came on, was non-existent. Yeah. We're going to get into some individual analysis there that I think is important. And I kind of want to make a point about the future. My headline when we did the instant reaction was essentially short-term it'll be okay, long-term it has to change, which is fundamentally about the idea that we're still probably going to win the league in my view. I think we will. I think we have every chance to win the FA Cup and the Champions League because we're favorites to get to the semifinal of both, right?

48:50And I think we will. I have confidence we will. So if you're in the semifinal of two cups and your nine points or whatever clear in the league, we got a good chance to win all that. Short-term, it'll be fine. Long-term, I think we saw some things in this game that hold a mirror up to our squad that need to be improved and fixed. But that's for summer. For right now, just go win the stuff you're still in. So look, because we're having this lovely chat, I've completely forgotten to tell people about brands. And at this point, there are people that are going to say, I feel lost. I feel hopeless and aimless because I don't know what brands to give my business to.

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51:56Elliot:Indeed. Not it. So, this is where it starts to get into some of the stuff that I think can be treacherous, and that's some individual analysis. But I do want to do some of it. And I think it is the case that, you know, look, PSG, starting to look pretty good in the Champions League. Dembele, Due, Barkla, Kavaritskele, Mendes, Hakimi. It's a lot of potency. You know, Real Madrid just got some good performances out of Vinny Jr., which always helps, right? I look at Bayern Munich, Kai Havertz, Harry Kane, Olise, Musiala, Diaz, right? All kinds of good players. They could bring Nico Jackson off the bench.

52:46I look around, Barcelona obviously with Lewandowski, Laminya Mal, Rafinha, and I say, sometimes in football, as much as we get caught up on tactics and as much as we get caught up on structure, all these things that managers can do. You have to win the game. And the way you win the game is scoring goals. And I realize I've just blown everybody's mind there. But sometimes someone has to do something sensational, much like what Ebrecha Eze did against Leverkusen, right? You just do something sensational. What Max Dowman did for us, right? When he helped us win a game with his sensational talent.

53:23And right now, we're somewhat short on that. And the player that I think we all know can be that guy and has been that guy for us during this rise that Arsenal has been on is not able to do it right now. And that's Bakayo Saka. And I think we have to be honest in analysis and say he's a player who this season is struggling to hit the form that we know he has in his boots. Now, one way you can fix that is by having a left-hand side that provides something. But fundamentally, it is the case that teams do depend on stars and he is our star. So as you watch Pacayo, do you have some analysis of where he's struggling right now?

54:02It feels like that explosive ability to beat a first man, to cleanly get past the man, and then make a quick decision of what he wants to do next. The timing just doesn't seem as sharp to me. Yeah, so it's funny how things change.

54:17Elliot:I've said this before, but he's now got the big contract, so the eyes are going to be sharper on him. But let's not mess about. He's not in good form at the moment. And sometimes I watch him and I think, oh, I'm not sure he had a good game. Then I look at the numbers and think, flipping hell, he's done all right. But there's something more intangible than looking at numbers. And when I look at him, I'm not seeing the aggressive intent to drive into errors and really hurt the opposition. And I know he's been doubled up on to what he's doing quite smartly. And he's carrying it 10 yards forward and he's dropping it off.

54:52Elliot:But then we need to go again. And that go again wasn't there yesterday. And he was just coming back to Saliba and then back to Saka again. So go on and try again. Three men around him, drops it off. Let's go. It's not happening. So his partner in crime, Eze, wasn't there. His other partner in crime, Odegaard, wasn't there. His other partner in crime, Marino, wasn't there. So what do we expect him to do? To beat four men, stick in top corner because he's put another 80 grand on his wages? Or do we need to have other solutions? Jokic isn't an associated player. So you can't really combine with him.

55:26Elliot:And so he's left on an island. Timber is, I believe, Timber is far more multilayered than Ben White and can offer him far more different shapes in attacking play. Other people have their traditional views of fullbacks. And by the way, congratulate Ben White getting the England squad. That's fantastic for him. Other people have traditional views of fullbacks. I think football's a far more multilayered game. You need to be able to look after the ball in many different scenarios and Timber's a mile ahead for me. A mile ahead. and but that's just my opinion now everyone's going to agree right so and so we had no connection there on this side but the thing that worries me a little bit is that that's a captain of our team and he came out and didn't have a great game which is fine he was not alone maybe he's done there's only one player in our team that had a good game maybe two Califiori and Saliba everyone else can be questioned right so but we we want him to be that guy desperately because we know we're not a superstar forward line but he is the one guy that can be and has been and has done it for so long and for him to go flat now right now at winning time this is concerning this is it mate six years you've had us in your rucksack carrying this team along but we were we shouldn't we didn't deserve to have you you're right here now here you are now franchise player money in the bin come on man come on this chance to win everything yeah find it find it for two months find it this is not the time to self-doubt this is not the time to not be aggressive just simple things you get a foul let the ref know you've been fouled talk to him you gotta have a purpose we lack purpose and edge in this game around the pitch not just zaka come on be every time there was a throw-in the Man City players you'd think it was like it was a penalty they were fighting for they were on the edge they were fighting for their team fighting for their club and we were just thinking it was going to happen we didn't have the aggressive intent and I'm afraid Zaka didn't show it on the day but I've seen some stuff out there and I'm not I'm not one for this I look at football in a collective manner in certain compartments don't work other players will fall away you know and I don't look at it it's individualistic game because i don't know anybody can just run through 10 players in school apart from messy right so um but we need to i've seen some things out there about i think i don't agree i don't agree and i shouldn't think about online stuff who cares right i don't agree there's always going to be the worst people saying the worst like this is the problem i have someone with 500 followers who might be a 14 year old in their mom's basement write something dumb yeah And everybody's like, we have the worst fans.

58:15Look at this. Like, mate, if you want to find dumb stuff on the internet, I've got great news for you. You have a bounty, an endless bounty. I just think it becomes a straw man in a way, right? It's like, look at this dumb thing someone said. So I'm going to fight against it. It is totally fair to analyze the performance of players if you say it in a credible, intelligent, thoughtful way and you keep it in the context of what's actually happening. Once someone poisons the well by saying something stupid on the internet, then I think we all lose our mind and the analysis goes out the window. So I think your eyes don't lie.

58:44Elliot:He's not looking as dynamic as he has done in the past. He's still decent on the ball, but I find myself just not thinking he's going to take people on at this moment in time. And then the players, obviously, in recent times, just very recent times, in Noddy and Max, I'm not saying they should play ahead of him, although some people may say that at the moment. They're showing a level of dynamism and enthusiasm. and Saka's not showing that for me. So it's the intangibles rather than the output because numbers are still fine. He had 24 duels, he won 12. I know that sounds like not a good number, but he was involved in more duels than anybody else.

59:27Elliot:So the numbers will always give you a get out if you want to find that. But for me, I want to see him really driving this team forward, having that accountability and ownership there. it's very difficult on your own when everyone else is not playing well but mate i need it from you because you've you've earned this you've brought us here don't go quiet on me now yeah and i there are some people that are saying maybe it's time for nani to start i'm gonna say this i still would rather give bakayo saka the chance to play himself in the form because i think our ceiling if he does that is much higher than what we get with Nani.

1:00:05It is possible that in this very moment, because Nani has the explosive acceleration where he can beat a guy, that in this moment, in a small sample, maybe Nani gives you something that right now Bakayo isn't doing. But I think our chance to hit our ceiling is higher as if Bakayo hits his form. But, and this is important, Ezra's going to be out a little while. Now, we don't know how long, but he could miss some games and if that is the case then I think playing Nani and Saka becomes almost your only option Clive

1:00:36Elliot:yeah that's what I was going to say actually you took the words out of my mouth I'll say it again games are one I lost before kickoff I've lost loads myself decisions that are made wrong it was the wrong decision to play Havertz in that second striker role it was the right decision to play one of Havertz or Jokeres in centre forward probably have us to start the game. Should have been Kai, yep. And Kai owns as a 10 and Noni on the outside. Why? Because all of us expected Eze to start, which means in our minds, the game plan was set. Whether the management knew or not, we don't know. Eze did the interview with Jamie Redknapp, was it, I think?

1:01:16Elliot:And so I'm thinking, he's going to play. And suddenly he wasn't playing. So for me, in my mind, the closest to Saka, sorry to Eze Saka not Kai and so if I said that already I apologise for repeating myself I've been thinking about this a lot and so so we got it wrong we got it wrong because I think we'd have been more like Arsenal with space on the outside with an interior that can look after it and dribble and carry and a centre forward that can also look after it but also win the first ball I think we got it wrong your question come on late by playing the two forwards we depowered the team depowered towards the end of the game that's why the manager was bemoaning that first chance because he knows he played a team to go one up.

1:02:01Elliot:And once he went one down, it was game up, mate. It was game up. He wanted to get that first goal and that's why he's bemoaning it. If he gets that first goal, we've got players that have plenty that can look after it from a defensive point of view and we could have managed it from a position of strength. We never had that position of strength on this day. Yeah. So I want to be careful. I want to give an honest opinion. And I want to say it in a way that doesn't sound like I'm whining. And I may not hit the mark on that, I admit. I am not impressed with Victor Yelkras. And I have not been impressed with him.

1:02:43I don't think that we can have a player that we pick regularly, who is capable of a 7 out of 10, but capable of a 0 out of 10. And that is the problem that Mikel Arteta has with that player, which is, I don't want to sit here and pretend he hasn't had decent games for us. And his goal return has been decent. I think the problem is, there are days he simply gives you nothing. He's a 0. And he gives you no shots, which he's now into deep double figures of games where he has no shots. He had no shots in this game. He completed three passes in this game. Okay? He had an awful day at the office from a duel standpoint.

1:03:28Won none of his aerial duels, which is not really his strength to begin with. Two of seven on his ground duels. So two of 11 on duels. And I just, I think there are teams where a Victor Jokeres, his style and what he brings can be really impactful. And again, I don't want to be dismissive of the games where he has been. But I think Arsenal are already a team, because we play Zubomendi and Rice in a double pivot, that need a striker who can show his boots and where you can play the ball to them as a false nine. And we've been on this podcast and I've complained, Gabriel Jesus isn't in the box, he's in midfield too much.

1:04:02Kai Havertz isn't in the box, he's in midfield too much. Lacazette isn't. So I want to be aware of that. I want to be sure to be honest about that. But I think your center forward for Arsenal has to be able to show his boots and receive the ball and be part of what we do as we progress it, especially with Zubamendi and Rice in double pivot. And Victor Jokras, again, had a game where he just couldn't get in. And this wasn't Diaz and Gehi either. You know, this was a changed back line. We never threatened them, and he never threatened them. And Clive... Thank you. Again, he wasn't 120 million like Azak.

1:04:42He was brought in, I think, to be an option along with Kai, and Kai's fitness has wrecked that plan. But I think the stylistic fit is challenging, and on days like this when he's not on it, instead of being a 6 out of 10, he becomes essentially a 0 out of 10. And that's the worry for me. You don't know. I think as a manager it must be so hard to play a player where you're like, I might get that good performance from him, or I might get that 0. And that is a tricky situation. Maybe I'm letting my emotion of this result get to me, but I find myself struggling with the fit of that player. And I thought it was a very bad day at the office for him.

1:05:21Elliot:Yeah, it wasn't a great day for him and others. I just, while you were talking there, because when we say I have an opinion, I always think we should have a solution or an alternative. And we played 50 games this season, and Kai Havertz has made 11 appearances. Yeah. Has he played a 90 for us yet this season? I don't think he has. He's played five Premier League appearances, two Champions Leagues, two FA Cup, and two EFL Cups. So I'm not sure if he's accurate. He hasn't finished a game, I don't think. I don't think he's played 90. And so the other guy, he's really important. If you don't like him, it's absolutely fine.

1:05:59Elliot:But we're not here without him. He's important, but is he good enough? I don't know. For what we want to be. I don't know. I don't know. you know, I would much prefer an Isaac, a fit Isaac, shall we say, because he's perfect for what we want to be. But we've gone for Victor Jokeres and we are doing okay. But I take your point, but I think we need to be honest again and say our two other options in Gabriel Jesus and kai havert have been hardly present this season and are barely fit enough and so this guy whether you like or not it's incredibly important to our ambitions and so i find myself protecting him a little bit while recognizing there are days when he doesn't play very well you know and but there are other days when he looks really good i ask you a tricky question to just because i want honesty right that's all we want and if people disagree we're here like we'll always chat about it if Marino had been fit and is fit and was fit currently during this period, would you be picking him up front based on what you've seen recently?

1:07:06Elliot:Well, some of our best performances this year came up front with Mikel Marino. But for me, it's all about, you know, I wish Marino was fit because he would have took some minutes out of Joqueves' legs. That's a fair point too. And that's it. And so, yeah, everyone's entitled to opinions about players. but again it's about being intellectually honest without Vichyotra's fitness and robustness we are nowhere near it mate because Reno's in a boot Kai we saw that he's not quite ready Jason's disappeared recently although he had a little spark towards the end of this game that's the first spark we've seen in a while and so he's incredibly important to us so I find myself loathe to critique that there are days when you're absolutely right and he doesn't provide anything doesn't win races there are other days when we are far more compact and more aggressive and more more directive our passing and much closer to him by the way he's had a lot of success with ese a lot of success he had one game i think with kai maybe karat almighty um and basically maybe uh leads away you know and kai was all right in that game wasn't great but they were good together apart from that i can't think of many more ese now brought the best out in him oh ese wasn't there right so so yeah it i think he's important i know in my heart there are people listening to me now saying yeah but clipe maybe athletic come with you to take him for 40 mil that'd be good wouldn't it yeah maybe if we're gonna if he doesn't fit someone's eyes i can't make them like him but i know we are like eight weeks away from something special and finish your question is critical i'm not about kick his legs away right now i just not despite the fact i can see that sometimes he doesn't win races i can see sometimes he can't trap it i can see sometimes he pass it out of play.

1:08:54Elliot:But he's also scored a lot of goals this kind of year. That's helped put us into his position. If we want to have a referendum on him, which we're no doubt we will do in the next week, a few days, it'll be a national break. Then we need to make sure that our alternatives in our squad are available and playing well. And they're not. By the way, one of the things I'll miss about this season, apart from just the sheer joy that is still ahead. We're going to talk about that before this podcast is over, by the way. uh i will miss you referencing carrot almighty that's right i'm awkward right you got it wrong um you know look this is why it's hard because sometimes i'm guilty of this too right i'll have a criticism of arsenal and coming out of my mouth it feels fine then i'll hear someone else say it i'll be like you can't say that about my club you don't get defensive you know so we're all gonna do it and and i get it like it's not sticking the boot in to just observe that there areas we can improve and like let's let's be honest about the bar we want arsenal football club to be the best in the world and by the way at the end of this season we may find ourselves winners of the premier league and winners of the champions league and if you've contributed to that season you deserve credit even if you haven't hit the level people want but if we want to be Bayern Munich if we want to be Barcelona if we want to be Real Madrid if we want to be Manchester City if we want to be those kinds of clubs right PSG and you're talking Kane Lewandowski Dembele, Holland Mbappe, Hafenia Julian Alvarez you look around and I think we can acknowledge and even at Liverpool we're having a dreadful season you know, Izak and Eketike and you know I don't want to reopen the Sesco thing and he wouldn't have been ready set that aside, my point is you look around and you say that's a position that maybe is still on the agenda and for now we win with what we've got but Clive I'm in the solutioning phase and what I mean by that is I would be okay starting to say can we set it up differently can we play Martinelli through the middle can we try that can we play Ezza at 9 no no no I get it but what I mean is I would be willing to see 20 minutes here or there of alternatives and I don't think those alternatives are necessarily Jesus Zeus or Kai, I'm saying like, are there games where you would try something a little out of the box?

1:11:23Or is this a case of just get it over the line now? Don't start re-emitting the wheel because you lost a cup final to City in a game where you had missing players.

1:11:29Elliot:So I don't think it's that. I think it's a forward discussion. Our front four yesterday, Saka Havertz, Jokeres, Trossard. How do you think they played? no they didn't play well none of them played well but so for me the you look at arsehole from 30 000 feet which area needs the investment the attack yeah exactly yeah so we should have a forwards discussion right about that at the moment that's where we're at we should have a forwards discussion you know so because our forwards are not as effective as they could be and they lack superstar quality. Well, we know this. We're a unit. We're a team that scores collective goals.

1:12:15Elliot:Our goals are played around the team. When we lose a game, your eyes look towards, you tend to go towards people who are not playing and you tend to look at the people that are meant to make your day a bit better. Your staff forwards, right? You want them to do a bit better. When you nil at Wembley in front of like 45 ,000 of your own fans, when you nil and you get passed around and people are doing keepy-ups, mate you go different places emotionally you know you do and when people will go where they need to go i look at arsehole and i think it's time now it really is time to have a set of forwards to scare people yeah yeah if you say to me at kai did you think is yorker scaring people at the moment no he's not is kai and trossard scaring people no and because if they're not neither Martinez Martinelli, neither is Jesus.

1:13:08Elliot:Neither is Jesus. Honestly, Nani might be our scariest forward if you're just a fullback saying, who do I have to face today? If I say to you, Trostas, he's almost like attacking mid at the moment. He's not really scoring. He hasn't scored in a long time. And then you've got Jokeres who's been in and out, but at least he's got numbers to back it. Kai on his way back, but not quite back. So if you're the opposition now, who do I need to stop? I better stop number seven. Because, you know, and he's now getting discouraged. We have a forwards issue. Yeah. So it's time to move Bukayo inside. That's staring you in the face.

1:13:41Elliot:Because we've got two right-siders on the outside that are buzzing, crackling. They need to have more time. And we need to release him from that side. That's the solution, Elliot. That is the solution. We need to think about Eze from the left-hand side. If Trussar's flat. But Eze's injured for how long? He's not getting a scan for six days. That means he's got a problem. that means it's not worth scanning it for six days right so so he's gonna miss two weeks when we come back my goal is can we get ese back for the city game right so i wouldn't count on it well and so that means we've got to make a change odegaard's not in the norway squad he's on the edge hadn't seen him for a long time everyone's now thinking we need to get him back you know game like yesterday by the way with they're doing that front four narrow thing odegaard's a sneaky player in behind that come and get it pick it around come pick the ball up and take it back get it back again lend it to you get it back again that's exactly the sort of we didn't have that player hence they hence they did the tactic they use the tactic and that was going to work you know so we have a forwards issue at the moment and we've had it for quite a while we've got by by scoring everywhere by scoring with set pieces we've got by but there comes a time when you have to say it's time to fix this and i guarantee we're going to have maybe two new fours coming to our club next season and they're going to be of a heavier weight shall we say because it's needed there's unwritten rules in sport baseball is not a sport i've ever been a huge fan of but baseball is probably the biggest american sport when it comes to unwritten rules you know what i mean rules everybody knows unwritten.

1:15:23So I'll give you an example. If a pitcher throws the ball and hits the batter, the other team's pitcher is expected to throw at the first batter he faces in the next half of the inning. Brush them back. Sort of like you hit one of my guys, I'm going to hit one of your guys. And what this does is it creates a detente, right? You're not going to have one pitcher just throwing it players because he knows my guys are going to get thrown at. I don't want to create that. When you do keep the uppies in a cup final, against a team that's currently ahead of you in the table and is going to be playing you at your place, you got to get smashed.

1:15:58And Ben White did it. And I'm not usually up for the hard man thing. He didn't go through him with his studs. He didn't try to break his ankle like Caicedo does. He just boshed him. He just shouldered him to the ground. You're not doing that to us. And I want to thank Ben White for doing that, for protecting the badge, for telling Cherky, you know we'll see you again and i i realized wore a trophy turkey can take the piss because they won 2-0 but i do like that ben white did that clive i i thought that was a stand up for

1:16:33Elliot:yourself moment you know don't feel sorry for yourself yeah yeah mate that's my number one memory from the game that is my number one memory from the game i was fuming on the back of that and I don't run about and play football anymore. So I tell you now, the team talk's already done for the 80-yard. I promise you that. So I know which one I pick to win. And so the team talk's done, mate. It's done already. You've got to feel that. You've got to feel that. And to be fair to Guardiola, I just saw a little clip earlier on where he sort of shook his head. Shook his head, yeah. Because he knows. He knows that will be remembered.

1:17:15with you don't the director the director of the game showed that almost as if to show pep shaking his head at ben white uh knocking down turkey but no but what i'm saying is i don't think that's what he was shaking his head at i think he was shaking his head at turkey doing that like he knows what

1:17:32Elliot:why are we giving them that unwritten rules of football mate you don't do that to your professionals another one you don't sit on the ball you know you don't do that there are things that you do you don't do because it's always another day there's always another game and you just giving us motivation and so oh by the way if we haven't given us motivation then then we have got a problem in here because this game is all about fuel it's all about rocket fuel fueling you to remind yourself what it feels like to be beaten in these big games and by the way we've got big games coming up back to where paul went yesterday this ain't happening and what are we going to do to make sure it doesn't happen we need some discussions to have about discussions to have about how we played about how we approach the game what works for us in these big games and we've learnt it all because we're discussing it right now.

1:18:18Elliot:It feels very obvious. With health, at the right time, with the right people, with the right on-board personality, with the right off-board aggression, we're going to be much more like Arsenal. Much more like Arsenal because we won't be dancing after the ball with 39 % possession. We won't be running around because we'll have a lot more control and play the game we want to play. And we were done. We were done because we didn't clean up our work, we didn't clean up our second balls and Pep said it, we turned the game when we started to win second balls. And it might sound boring to people, but it's a big part of the contest.

1:18:51Elliot:And we lost the contest. And then we lost the on-ball side of the game as well. And then we're looking at ourselves. Yeah. So here's the thing.

1:19:04Every single person who loves Arsenal has a right to be absolutely miserable about how this went down in the dumps. It's a cup final and we lost it. We lost it to them. And I have to say, the badge felt small on this day. City made me feel a little bit like I felt before Arteta arrived. They made me feel like we weren't at their level. And we are most certainly at and beyond their level. You know, this is a City team that just got humiliated by a mediocre Real Madrid. A City team that is well behind us in the table. Right? But they made us feel small. And if you're hurt, well, not as far as I'd like.

1:19:42but they're behind and I felt I felt an acute pain at the way this game went and more about not even the result but more that after about 20 good minutes we were outclassed and I just don't I didn't enjoy seeing us get outclassed so if you're hurting today like I am feel that it's okay like there is this thing we do where everything has to have a reference to something else you can just be in pain from the way this game went but arsenal can still win the fa cup the premier league and the champions league will we we may not we may have another pain in the fa cup but when the champions league and the premier league we may only he says in quotes win the premier league that's all i want only yeah but here's what i was gonna say we have to set this pain aside pretty soon we have two weeks where there's no football so we can process it over time and shift back to recognizing that we are currently in a very good position to win things that really matter and matter more than this.

1:20:44And Clive, this is the hard part, I think. I cannot watch that game and pretend I didn't see a lot of Arsenal flaws on display. And the whole world watched it and the whole world saw it. But we go to the Etihad. It's a game that's going to really matter. We've got a quarterfinal in the Champions League coming up, a quarterfinal in the FA Cup. We can't be the team we were on this day. So are you prepared to just put this in the closet, close that closet, lock it, throw the key away, and look forward? Or are there some things that Mikel has to be careful not to brush aside from this game to make sure that with what we still have to accomplish, this game, Paul's headline was, it's about the learnings.

1:21:26And I think you and Tim connected to that. And I kind of lost my rag because I was like, what are we going to learn? We need more technical players. Where are we going to get them? There's nothing we can do. The technical level wasn't good enough. But I've come around to Paul's point, which is this game can be a big catalyst to success if we learn some things from it. So what are the specific things you hope Mikel will take away from this and learn so that we do go on and achieve an extraordinary finish to this season, which is still very much in the frame?

1:21:56Elliot:Yeah, so this time last year, or maybe around this time, Liverpool lost this game to Newcastle. a team that probably wanted a little bit more you know they haven't won a trophy for a long time on the day they were super aggressive and danced Liverpool about none of us thought that Liverpool weren't as good as Newcastle over all the season Liverpool refocused and went away with the league I'm hoping we're going to do the same thing from a learning point of view it's very difficult with the personnel that we had on the pitch at the time you know the change the one change I would have made I would have played Noni instead I would have moved Saka inside I'd have played Cal Fury too but that's yeah Cal Fury we were 50-50 on it but we did say personality is important but I'll be honest with you Elliot I thought Timber was playing so in my analysis I thought Timber would be fine I thought Eze would be fine so Cal Fury I was 50-50 on when you see the team that we ended up playing then Cal Fury should have played you know to count the balance of what we lost you know so again it's hindsight we have to be honest about this yeah that's right I think it's really key with Man City and what City did is really showing how strong we were it's really key with them they don't just try to over attack them because they'll pick you off but you must stand with them with on-board personality you must because they respect that you know and they're not all conquering they just drew with West Ham you know they're not they just got done 5-1 by Real Madrid bid so let's not pretend that they're all conquering they were really good against us no doubt about it really good but let's not pretend it's perfect in their house and it's not perfect in ours but what can we what can we learn i think come the moment you got to own the moment and be in the moment and i felt there was many of us on the periphery of the game we'd lost a bit of our personality we lost a bit of our shape our better players were not in the parts of the pitch that could control the momentum of the game.

1:24:03Elliot:I felt they deferred away a little bit. We lacked some verticality, I'll be honest with you. You know my love, my centre mids, I didn't think their forward passing was good. I didn't think we had any sort of rhythm and control in there. I think we missed a third midfielder. You know, it normally would have been Eze, Odegaard's next one up. We missed that third midfielder. Marino would have been next one up. It was a third midfielder day, not a second strike a day. Simple as that. And we got the balance wrong. We got the balance wrong. But I also watched the previous two games against Everton and Leverkusen, where we had 25 shots against Everton, 21 shots against Leverkusen.

1:24:45Elliot:And I was not talking about balance. I was not talking about offensive aggression. I was talking about rhythm. I was talking about technical ability, about managing the moment, firing in, looking really aggressive. I loved it. absolutely loved those two games right so and i thought we got us we got back to our level got back to our standards and we walked into this game full of confidence and against an opponent who'd been listening to all the chatter about us like we've won a quadruple already they said nah not on my watch we're coming to play you and we're going to give you a slap and they they won it fair and square that's the first for me that's the first time we've been beaten properly for quite a while in fact the other time i've seen this look at this neutered was periods of the Manchester United game, first game of the season.

1:25:30Elliot:But we butchered eight breakaways in that game, so we could have won that. But there were periods in that game that we were holding on. And periods in the end of the Villa game that we were holding on, we didn't hold on. But this was a 45 minutes, or 40 minutes of real humbling. So we have to bring that into, we have to bring what we didn't have into that game. So when we're making 50-50 selection decisions to whether to go for the athlete or the footballer, I think we should go for the footballer. But I will say injury hurt us in this game quite a lot in a lot of those scenarios. Yeah. And to be fair, Manchester City, even through this period where they've not been elite, they have periods of games where they cause you problems against all their opponents.

1:26:21They did against Real Madrid. Even with 10 men, they did against Real Madrid. you know, against West Ham, could have won it multiple times. Thankfully, they didn't. When you look at a team that could put out Doku and Semenyo and Cherokee and Holland, Bernardo Silva, and if they want to put out Foden, you know, like, of course they're going to cause you problems. And to be fair, maybe, just maybe, if Kepa catches that cross and doesn't spill it, maybe they don't find the goal, and we go long, and we do get in, and we do turn them around, and they do start to fade and they can't keep us up there.

1:26:58You know, maybe if Raya's playing, that screen of four doesn't work because he chips it to a fullback or he slips it through a space between and we turn them around and we get a goal on the counter. And all of a sudden, everyone's saying, City just have that glass jaw. But we gave them a goal. The goal we gave them completely gutted us. You could see it. We were shell-shocked. And then, you know, by the time we got the subs on the game was lost yeah go ahead

1:27:29Elliot:yeah I think yeah exactly that I think the nature of the goal even though it was coming sort of felt like two goals and it really was it really was you know why Clef for me emotionally why it did Kepa made that error he gets the yellow card they start to hem us in and it was the first time in the game even though we had lost some control the game It was first time a game when they were actually creating something, not just pinning us back. And it felt like we had cleared it. We rode a wave of some pressure. We had some really scrambled clearance moments in the box, but we had cleared it. And we had gotten out of that moment.

1:28:04And I sort of felt like, okay, that wasn't the best period, but they didn't score. And now we can take a breath. And right at that moment where I thought we could take a breath, Kepa spills it. And there is that weird moment where you're like, we did it. we wrote out that pressure and we got it clear and we defended and then something stupid happens like that and it's so gutting yeah um can i just i just want to go on i think this is what this

1:28:31Elliot:team is good at we ride out the moments where we are crap we ride them out with a nil and you know at this moment i i know it's not gonna sound great right but i almost wanted the keeper to catch that then go down so he can make the subs that were so needed you know and they were so needed you got to go down make the subs it's part of the game we didn't manage that moment and then they scored and I think we all knew then that it was a bit of trouble it was a bit of trouble I know when you were speaking about these Man City players on the ball about what they really can do and I thought Turkey looked good I didn't know it was him putting those crosses in but actually now I've re-watched a little bit of it I can see his value.

1:29:15Elliot:I thought Bernardo Silva played the referee perfectly, made three big fouls, doesn't get a book in. Hinkapi gets a book in. Completely new to our left-hand side, completely. He played the referee really well. Roger played the referee really well. We suspected that. They're very good at it, particularly in finals. But I will praise them, and I'll say it again. Those pretty dancing feet players were fantastic off the ball. And that was the difference. Doku, Semenyo squeezing in from the sides, making sure we couldn't get out down the middle. we will be my friends great yeah the last thing I wanted to say just about this game is can we at least give credit where it's due because I think William Saliba was sensational in this game he and Gabriel I thought Marshall Holland pretty darn well he had some really important headers and interventions which is not usually a strong suit where he read the path of the ball and stayed with him he completed I want to say 92 % of his passes on a day when everyone else was couldn't couldn't find an arsenal foot.

1:30:12He's just one of those players that even under immense pressure, I think he tends to retain his technical quality, which isn't always the case in this team. So I, I wanted to give him some credit for that because he, he was one player who did not, I think shrink from the moment on the ball, you know, in addition to his defensive side.

1:30:33Elliot:Yeah, absolutely brilliant. He stood out. Don't care where you were in the ground. He stood out, you know, and straight away he was just it. from the minute. Again, you have a little Polaroid in your mind about what the game's going to be. Immediately we thought it was going to be a Haaland game. It wasn't a Haaland game. It was the first time we just mentioned him. It wasn't a Haaland game. They normally go to Haaland a lot. They were far more multi-layered this time Man City were. They weren't just about going to Haaland. If you win the Haaland battle you win the game. Normally. We won the Haaland battle.

1:31:04Elliot:We didn't win the game did we? Because they brought a lot more to the party as a collective group. that was a much more collective team performance on them. Saliba was outstanding in that job. And Haaland stood off Gabriel, went to Saliba's side, and Saliba said, I'm taking that as an insult. I'm going to deal with you. And he dealt with him aggressively, dealt with him with skill. Until Haaland failed, which he always does second half. And I was talking about it today because they won the game. It's the nature of the game. Yeah, well said, Clive. So final point here. We have the international break, I think, at a good time.

1:31:39I think and massively so what's interesting about it there's some players that are going to get some rest we're losing Ezza for multiple weeks but we have two weeks to get him right Odegaard I think will probably be fit when we come back so I think it comes at a good time where we need to get some players positioned for the run-in and then maybe a little luck with the way the fixtures fall because our next fixture is a chance assuming we take it to go to a semi-final right and then to put one foot into another semifinal in the midweek after that um and if we can get past bournemouth which again you know tough game good challenge but like we could have three games boom boom boom if we can win them right lower lower division opposition bournemouth at home lisbon away where suddenly the narrative will very very quickly shift to wow we're in a dominant position in the league with six games left wow we're in a semifinal potentially a semifinal of the FA Cup and maybe one foot in the semifinal of the Champions League.

1:32:38So I like the timing of this. I think we have a chance to really put this in a rear view. Nobody going into this season, none of us, nobody said the target is the League Cup. I'm not saying that as copium or whatever the people on the internet want to call it. I'm saying it as reality. How we evaluate this season always was and still will be judged by the things to come. It never was and never will be the thing that just happened because I promise you this, everyone. If we had won yesterday, it would have been a trophy. So I would have celebrated the hell out of it. It would have felt fantastic.

1:33:10It would have been wonderful. If we go on to win none of the other three, I really doubt anyone would have come back and said, we won the League Cup. What a season. Right? So the players, the manager, and all the fans have to remember the things that we were always going to evaluate this season on are still ahead of us and we are still in excellent position to go achieve them, Clyde.

1:33:30Elliot:Well said, mate. Perfectly said. And look, we're 24 hours on and with people listening to this today or the next day you'll feel better as the week goes on but what is ahead but man Bournemouth is what I'm looking at big time Bournemouth is what I'm looking at if we do Bournemouth at home then it sets a table for City it sets it as we want it to be you know so and remember to keep you up lads remember to keep you up you know sleep well rest up remember to keep you up and maybe we get a little bit of a benefit too with the fact that what Pep showed us in the final I mean he'll have a plan for the game that the Eddie had but that was a clever strategy and we didn't have an answer for it but he's fired that bullet now right so we could be prepared if they try that again the only negative right I don't care what anybody says I wish they were playing Bayern three days before they were playing us instead of having a week to sit at home and get ready for us but it is what it is um look this pod was an exploration of everything that sucked about that cup final i think it's time to compartmentalize that put that away we'll spend the interlal doing some stuff looking ahead to the summer because why not i mean what else are you going to do we'll do director of football pod which is super fun we buy and sell players we'll do power rankings so we can laugh at our rivals we must have a little fun at the expense of the teams that lost and had bad results this past weekend if you can't do that why are you following football.

1:34:54So we'll do some fun stuff this week. And then we look forward to the things that are really how we're going to evaluate the season. We look forward to seeing you in DC, by the way, on the 25th of April. And I should emphasize that April 1, we launched the fundraiser, our most important fundraiser ever, our last chance to fund the five-year program at the Zattery Camp for Coaching for Life. So a culmination of everything we've done is coming this April. And we want to make sure that we're really geared up for that. If you have questions about it, get in touch, contact at arsenalvisionpodcast.com.

1:35:22Clive, thank you. thank you very much thanks for listening everybody we will obviously have Tim and Paul and Phil and everybody back on future episodes if you got anything you need from us you know how to reach out but otherwise I will simply say we love you and we will talk to you after Arsenal's hand South Hampton know

1:35:59The sun's shining, birds are singing, and all feels right in the world. Until the season changes and suddenly you lose your motivation to get out of bed. In fact, one in five people experience some form of depression no matter the season or time of year. At the American Psychiatric Association Foundation, our vision is to build a mentally healthy nation for all because we want you to live your best life and be your best you all year round. Please visit MentallyHealthyNation.org to learn more.