Arsenal’s Title Dreams Turn To Nightmares After Bournemouth Loss

30:01Zubimendi is not a high-touch player. Arteta used to take 85 touches in that position for 90 minutes. Zubimendi is like 55, plays in a double pivot forever. uh he's just not the guy who hogs the ball and sets the tempo rice who we all love and he's not at his best but i i know it was far from his best game and maybe it was even a bad game for him but he's not bad and wasn't bad i don't think he was bad yesterday but like that's that's kind of the waterline every everybody else was below the waterline yeah that's a pretty hard battle when And you've got a Ben White who's coming. Like, I thought Ben White was good on the ball.

30:47I thought Mazlu Skelly was my star horizon. The back four with the ball weren't, I don't think, the problem. Everything in front of it was the problem. But they were the ones that had the ball. Like, Ryan, Saliba, and Gabby. And it's like, their technical level are higher than everyone in front of them. Clive?

31:03Elliot:Yeah, I think it's a challenge, right? So, I think, as Paul's explained there, what team would you pick? so I'll be honest with you I was walking down Wembley Way when I saw the team my heart sank because there's certain players I want to see in Lapeach they weren't there but I always never mind as long as we played properly and we didn't play properly so I felt justified in this game when you saw that team with that front three with almost like a front four in my heart I'm thinking Bournemouth mate they've been on holiday together they've been out there and played for 22-23 days they're going to be so energetic they're going to press us so you know what we're going direct i can see it we're going direct what do we do we played exactly as they wanted to do we broke the world record for backward passes it doesn't matter who plays if we just said right i'll give you an example right say we say right deckham we're going to push you up we're going to get you to go and win the second balls we're going to go to the right hand side we're going to have three passes in the back and we're pinging it into madoweki and Havertz and Jokerez and Decan sweep up behind and keep them on that right-hand channel if we win it we've now got four people ahead of the ball let's go but we didn't we paid 20 million passes at the back and now criticizing people that lose the ball at the back I just watched Kai say they'll lose a ball in the back he can play football it doesn't matter if you're targeted by three people you're going to lose it if you lose it there people are going to run off you because you're now playing in the wrong areas of the pitch and you're now playing because when they push five people up when they win it they've got five people there go one two three four in you know so it's about imposing ourselves so if we are brave and we're ourselves you know we do we say okay miles we're going to bring you into but we're going to we're going to not worry about rayon we're going to push you into midfield and we're going to push deck and all zoom menu on whichever one you want and we're going to clip it over top and we're going to get up behind it and win the second balls and that's what we used to do but now we seem scared of our own shadows we're marking their players they're wide players they dominated the game their two fullbacks Jimenez and what's his name Kufal or Trufau they were flipping excellent they were excellent well Tavenier he's a midfielder he's not really a winger but he was good Ryan was a physical target a reference they could get to but they kept to their structure and they kept people what they wanted to do and they imposed their game on us and we were defending them we should have imposed our game on them knowing what they were going to do and play into areas that we want to play and this isn't my worry this is the biggest worry i have we are like we are good at this we are really smart but these last three games we have not been smart we've been dumb and slow to react and we've been a customer of the opposition's game for us and we haven't reacted and we haven't felt in brave enough to impose our game on them and that disappoints me because that makes me think back to tim's point we are feeling the pressure and out of ideas we're standing in our holes we're feeling the pressure and that's it and we need to get back to being brave and getting people up the pitch and being aggressive and upping the tempo and getting back to us from an attacking force and sometimes we attack by aggressive defending but we attack by aggressive defending in the right areas and we are not in the right areas.

34:28Elliot:Me and Tim have discussions about this on the women's side of the game about a year or so ago. Our best two players were our two holding mids. So guess where we played? Around the holding mids until we kept losing the ball and it's a similar feeling I have right now. We're playing in centre-halves and our holding mids. Sod that, mate. Get them up the pitch. Get the full-backs up the pitch. Impose yourself on your position. We have to change this quickly. Can I come in on that really quickly as well and just cast your mind back to the Bournemouth away game. We actually picked this front three out of choice for that game and what happened there, but we had Erdegaard behind them.

35:04What happened in that game? Declan Rice scored twice. Erdegaard had one assist and one pre-assist that was basically an assist. Like Declan Rice got two goals. Where did he get those? Not on the corner of his own 18-yard box and we were playing that diagonal ball out to Maduake in the away game as well. And in fact, we lost the goal trying to go diagonal from Big Gabby. And yeah, I just saw very, very little of that. And I can't imagine that the plan was that much different, but the outcome was very, very different. Yeah. Well, look, to me, you have to at least be willing to acknowledge that there's important players missing and with those important players missing you can't necessarily do all the things you'd like to do free-flowing one touch football right up the pitch back third middle third attacking third goal okay but what you can do is you can tell Kai go stand next to Victor Yokares and you can tell Zubimendi you've been passing it back to the defense a lot lately and you look a little ropey you win a lot of headers though you go up there one more line let Declan Rice stay back here while miles is inverted.

36:16And we're going to go to you and to Kai, who win a lot of aerials, and we're going to let that ball wind up at the feet of these sprinty wide men and this sprinty forward we have, and we're going to make that Bournemouth press irrelevant. Because right now, we don't have twinkle-toed midfielders, and we don't have on-the-ball forwards, so we're just going to go long over this press, and we're going to play pragmatically, and we're going to do what works. And it boggles my mind, watching an arsenal that has the players on the pitch to do that, make 75 passes at the edge of their own box, and a goalkeeper who's doing Travella passes off the feet of attacking forwards and everybody wondering what the hell is going on.

36:51Well, Martin Zubimendi has to be emotionally consoled by his teammates because he has completely lost track of what his role is and what he's supposed to be doing. It is a failure of ideas. And when all the players are turning to the touchline saying, boss, give us something that works, and the boss doesn't give you something that works, that's a problem. And I think it is the first point in my time watching this arsenal where I'm looking over at the touchline and I'm going, what ideas do you have? Because we were eighth before this. We've been competing for the title in the Champions League for the last several seasons.

37:20So I know we've gotten better, but they need ideas right now and the ideas have not been there. And what really bothers me, what really bothers me is when the manager calls for seriousness from the fans, but you can't get seriousness from the players. And I'm sorry, but Tim, the goal that we concede, it is unlucky. I want to emphasize that deflection goes to the only place that can be a goal. Miles is caught sleeping, but it's still unlucky. But Nani Madweke does not want to defend there. He does not care. Ben White looks at him while the play is going on and says, what the hell are you doing?

37:52Now, Ben White gets caught too, okay? But there's two men for him to cover. Even if he's alive to it, there's two men. And Nani Madweke has just abandoned his job. That is unserious football. Running the ball into touch every time you have it is unserious football. And I'm sorry, it can't just be railing against the manager. Even if you're frustrated with Mikel. and I feel frustrated with the cowl. Someone's got to execute on the pitch. When a professional footballer acquired for 50 million pounds from a big club doesn't do his job defensively, he's got to be responsible. When he runs it into touch every time he's got it, he's got to be responsible.

38:27I'm sorry. When your center forward that you brought in has two big chances at the end of the game, he has to be responsible. Now, to be fair to him, he stepped up and took responsibility and scored the goal from the penalty spot. When your 55 million pound or 60 million pound Chelsea acquired player has a point blank header and that's his thing off a corner and that's our thing and he hits it off his shoulder and misses you have to be responsible so I think there's some deeply unserious shit going on right now for players who maybe to your point don't have the mentality for the title charge but but that goal my head was on Mars because that goal was a failure of effort and that's something I cannot understand when you're six games from a title yeah absolutely and I think um if you there's a lot of players we could get stuck into but if you wanted to get stuck into Maduweke, you know, you did it at Pompey, you did it at Mansfield, you did it at Brugger in the Champions League.

39:17Great. Should we do it in a Premier League game now, please? Or like a Champions League knockout game? That feels a bit like a cheap shot. But yeah, on that goal. No, I mean, you're right. That's the level. Okay, you want to play more? You want to prove your place? Our star is out? Do it at this level. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And again, it's just a a slightly unfortunate thing with injuries as well in terms of like a lot of our backup guys are becoming our main guys because guys who've defined our attack and our creativity, you know, Odegaard's not there, Saka's not there, Havertz is 50 % there, if at all, and hasn't been there for most of the season.

39:59And again, I'd probably liberally throw Marino into that as a kind of a bit of a totem pole, a bit of a defining player, like when he's on the pitch you can find him with the ball he comes and gets it and he shows himself or he goes up front and um he wins some headers and stuff that would have been really useful yesterday as well so we've we've lost a lot of like reference-y players and the guys we'd brought in for squad depth are now the guys um and and it's you know to your point earlier earlier as well you know you're kind of saying people go to this place you know people go to a dark place which is understandable but they go to this place where every single thing we've ever done is now wrong every single decision every single thing Arteta has ever done is wrong everything is evidence of incompetence and all of that and it's like like obviously that's not the case and because I keep kind of seeing people go oh he'd he'd never like want a creative player like jerky um and that's the problem with today as well right city win like that you lose twice and he'd never want a creative player like Cherki having bought Eberetje Eza well yeah yeah whatever he bought Eza and he bought Madueke who like is a very chaotic and I don't mean that pejoratively an incredibly chaotic player like Madueke is not a player who's gonna be a good boy and just stand where you tell him like it was obviously important to Arteta to introduce that into the team to your point that's why he bought Eza it took him a while to get to Eza clearly wasn't target number one at the beginning of the summer but he did go there and so you know it's clearly and he talked about Eza and I think I think he might said this about Madureke as well about moments you know players who dominate moments who give you moments and Eza has and it's again it's a real shame that just as he was really finding himself he gets injured which does feel like it's been happening all season and so with Maduweke yeah it's a bit like can you give us a big moment can you know can can and that's a challenge to a lot of our attackers well all of our attackers basically at the moment can can you give us that and um yeah but but like you're right on Maduweke on on the goal I see a lot of people kind of blaming Ben White for it and I think that's because there's a kind of again justified like oh is this the same Ben White not quite and so people's eye goes to him um but you're right that's that's unacceptable and and it's one of those things Elliot as well that if this game has any use to us for the analysts and for the players there's a lot of examples of what not to do that's what this game is it's yeah see where you did that don't do that don't do that don't do that and don't do that and we'll be good

42:48Elliot:can I just give you a quick a quick minute on the goal because I is at my end right and I literally I'm right behind that from the North Bank end. And so there was a moment just before that, for those that have good linear memories, not like me, please keep me honest. The moment just before that, when Supermandy goes to play the ball out towards where Arteta stands to Ben White, and there was a miscommunication. I couldn't see the angle, but he went out. And everyone sort of groaned a little bit. And Supermandy had a little pop at White, and White had a pop back. And then Supermandy turned to the manager, and then he turned to the centre-back, and said, like, what's going on?

43:23Elliot:what's going on so i thought that's a bit strange i've not seen sort of them sort of little mini arguments amongst the team and then it felt like to me not so fast correct it felt like that the next attack what happened and they're coming down that side and by the way eddie we did not win either side right so they were coming down that side and i'm thinking we're in a bit we're in a bit of trouble here so truth out truth out was coming and maloike was coming back and by the way okay you can tell when he's on and when he's not on when he's on he's electric when he's not on his shoulders are slumpy and he's just not doing all his jobs and he was not on it for minute one in this game and so if you're not going to track your man you better pass him on so Ben White gets attracted a little bit to the to the double marking he's having to do and then he creates a gap between him and his centre-back as a fullback the golden rule is if you're going to pass pass out to the outside don't pass between you and the centre-back but I don't blame him on this one honestly I don't because he was he was double troubled in there and then because we then don't react Fonsoli but he doesn't quite get out and he said he stands trying to defend across which comes on the floor hits his foot deflects the back post goal as always million things go wrong if it's perfectly the player dropped between two players rice and miles and six in the bad in there I think we lost a bit of relationship on that right hand side and we are a right-handed side team this is what we have been for five years we go right we've moaned about it but the right-hand side was so ineffective.

44:51Elliot:We're players on that side. We know them. Zubimendi, Madaweke, White, they were not effective in hardly any phases of the game, I'm afraid to say. And they didn't impose their game on the opposition. And we got done. And that's it. We got done. Did you see Clive in the second half when Jokrez had a go at Zubimendi as well? Because Zubimendi wouldn't... I think the angle was a bit questionable for the past like Jokras had pulled out to the left and Jokras was furious with him and gave him an earful. To be honest, I was on Zubimendi's side there because I was a bit like, you can't trap the football, mate.

45:30I'm not passing to you, but that's fine. Yeah, but look, for his offside goal, the ball should be played sooner. It should be played sooner. He's held his run well. He's got acres to run into and it should be played sooner. And like candidly, the attacking identity is gone. The attacking identity of this team is gone. It was Saka, Timber, Odegaard, Kai up front. That's gone. That's been ripped up. We've now got a running behind striker who wants it one way. We've got a winger who can't play in the clever ways that Saka can. He doesn't have the different ways of influencing the game. The way Saka would receive the ball from White or from Timber on the inside, cutting in, driving into midfield, that was a big part of our progression.

46:08That's gone. Nani can't do it. He can't go both sides and play the pass perfectly. No, and so it's just – One dimension. It is what it is. be but but and we're gonna do a big section on Mikel before this this episode is over so because I do want to make Tim's point a little bit more forcefully which is you don't get to have it both ways right now it's not good the ideas aren't there I think the subs were bad and we'll come to that we're only in this position because we were the best team in England for a big portion of this season you know a lot of people say oh you know Arteta's bad in April you know who was bad in April last season Liverpool but you know why it didn't matter because they had enough of lead to win the league right so you don't have to peak in april and may you have to be competent right now i don't know that we're competent that's going to be a big question coming up because if we don't get a result that the eddie had it's in city's hands so we're going to be talking about that this coming week but we must get a result there or it is no longer in our hands and for that to be the situation you can be as frustrated as you want to be but paul before we we shift gears to a few other things i mean i i think the 1v1's issue is really important here i i do think that teams must be able to win 1v1.

47:18If you get your forward isolated, they're not going to win every time. They have to win some of the time. Martinelli hardly had the ball at all, but the times he had it, he lost it, and Nani lost it more than he did anything else. And Victor Yocres just doesn't win 1v1. That's not what he does. The best dribble into the box by an attacker of the entire day was Gabriel Magali isolating the game for that chance that he had when he was playing striker. So to me, I want to know what you think of that. just the degree to which we have lost the ability to win 1v1s on the edges and create challenges for defenses by pulling them out of shape, by winning when we get our players isolated on their defenders.

47:55Yeah, I mean, I got the words of Lee Dixon ringing in my ears, although I wasn't enjoying it at the time. Just do your job. Like, defensively, just do your job. Their first goal was, you can a portion blame how you like it i don't think ben was fully clued into what was going on behind him maduaki 100 was not doing his job and there was no communication between the two of the players the two players and that's you know that's lee dixon's area of the pitch and like then he went off on one about how he'd been saying in this game like this was before he started he had a kind of mantra of just do your job and i was like that's so reductive so basic so down one end just do your job lads down the other end maduaki and martinelli what is their job on a day like this we will get you isolated 1v1 and then you do your player because once you beat him you're through and now you've got yakoresh maduaki and havert streaming through on goal and we could not do it and i agree with Clive's analysis of it, of the game and how we should have been going long and leaning into the players we had, and Tim touched on this.

49:14But the other part of me that says, we were actually doing pretty well playing it around the back and getting control and getting possession. And when we got it to those players, they did nothing that made you think, let me get it to you some more. And I think there's a certain amount of, after you've had the ball a bunch of times and not done anything with it, uh the players start thinking well that's the answer going forward so i think we kind of had a bit of a scheme that because we had zero success instead of some success on the front line it all just got kind of uh congealed at the back we were playing it around getting to a reasonable uh position where we could hurt them and we didn't then have an option out or a belief that that option or the combinations and the fluidity you're looking for going forward.

50:07In the first half, there's a point where we start getting up the pitch after they've scored and we start getting corners and we start getting, and we could have built on it there, but our ability to use our attacking line, the front four to win our battles, the ball, it's almost like you're playing downhill at that stage. And if you look at the field tilt, It just starts coming back to our back line again and putting us under pressure. Our inability to win our 1v1s up front, I think, was extremely costly in this game. And I think you need one sticky player. I hear what the guys say about how we beat Bournemouth.

50:46But I remember that Bournemouth game has been a really sticky game. And this one felt like we were playing away from home and that they were the dominant team. and part of it was because we could not get our claws into them up front. Yeah, the talent wins football matches and we do not have the talent in attack right now to win football matches. We can collectivize it. We can win through set pieces. We had 0.19. Was it 0.19 open play XG, 0.18 open play XG in this game? We're not able to create through open play and I'll just give you a little bit of data on Nani and Martinelli for a second. Nani Maduike completed 14 passes.

51:23he had no chances created he had no shots he had two deep touches he received one progressive pass he completed one of his four dribbles that's what he did in his job Gabriel Martinelli he had no shots he created one chance worth.02 expected goals he played six passes he received zero progressive passes he had one deep touch He attempted and succeeded on no dribbles. That's what we got from our wingers. We lost the wide areas. Yeah, you lose the wide areas, you're going to be in trouble. And so, I want to get to this.

52:02Elliot:When you see Declan Rice and Zubmane give the ball away 32 times, you can have a go at both those players who are not bad at football. Or you could say, actually, where are our targets to pass to? You have to look beyond it. You have to look beyond it. Where are our targets? and I was so disappointed with, hey, look, when we do this earlier, you're going to get in the comments now, you know what's going to happen? Someone's going to say, why are they blaming Madiweke when this player did this and this player did that and this player did this and Martinelli did this and Jokeres missed two chances and Kai was tight.

52:36Elliot:Hey, look, at the moment in time, every negative comment is absolutely correct when you don't win a game of football like that. It's really important to all of us because we all brought our dinner to the game and we didn't get anything back, right? We didn't get nothing back. I'm conscious of that, that this is a collective issue. And you go where you go first. It's a collective issue. And this is, if you don't mind, this is what I want to say. When you have something that's this collective, that to me feels more psychological than tactical than anything else. Because too many people are not informed.

53:09Elliot:And there needs to be a moment in time. If I'm the manager or anywhere near the players, I'm thinking it's time to remind these players that they're quite good and maybe stop telling them what they can't do. It's time to remind them because this is the moment to change the psychological feeling around these players. I don't want you running around in training. Watch the Bayern Munich take with me. This is what we were doing a few weeks ago. Watch that take. Let's see if we can rebuild people's confidence because that was not good enough in so many different areas from so many different people.

53:45Elliot:Choose your favourite, one you don't like the most. choose him. I also think when you're the manager of a team that is on the precipice of winning something huge or chucking it away in historic fashion, you're going to have to make a critical season impacting decision at some point. You're going to have to change something because a fit Bakaio sack is probably not in the plan for the rest of the season. A fit Odegaard is probably not in the plan for the rest of the season. They might give you something, but you can't just snap your fingers and have the 11 you want out there. And I think Mikel is going to have to reach a point where he says, I've made a decision.

54:24I'm changing something. And maybe that changes. I'm dropping Zubomendi. And when Odegaard's fit, I'm going to play Rice Odegaard and Eze. Or I'm going to play Rice Kai and Eze. I'm going to drop Zubomendi. I'm going to let Rice be the six and I'm going to let his superpower of running all over the pitch, smothering everything that comes our way, get us back. Because the identity of this team also as a defensive team, as a team that keeps people out, you can't say you're the best defense in the world then concede a goal like that where nobody's switched on you can't concede a goal like we did at the end of the game where your number six just gets run off his back shoulder where you have the ball deep the thing that is driving me nuts about the second goal is look where we recover the football we recover the football up the pitch what do we do?

55:07we turn around and go straight back give it to Gabby under pressure his clearance is blocked and our six gets run off his shoulder You cannot say your identity is the best defensive team in the league that way. So I think Mikel has to start making some big calls and reshaping what he's doing with the midfield to get our identity back at both ends. I do want to talk about the subs, though. I think it's an important part of the game. And I want to ask a few questions about the need emotionally to feel like you've got to throw the baby out with the bathwater when you analyze a loss and where we are right now.

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58:03I think emotionally it's getting to him. He was being consoled by his teammates during this game. There was a moment where he had to be consoled. There was a lot of shouting at each other, and he was sort of part of a lot of that. I am of the opinion, as I just expressed, that that's an area of opportunity where Mikel can take his absolute best player, who I think is Declan Rice, and put him in a position where he can snuff out a lot of trouble. And figure out the dynamics by getting more technical players who are passing-oriented on the pitch. We did a scouting video of Zubimendi. It came in for some criticism, but one thing we noticed is, smart player, in position a lot of the time, wins headers, you know, can bite back.

58:39but maybe not the 90 touch, 90 % progressive passing maestro that we think of. And I think that's been borne out a little bit. So is it unfair to point to Zubimendi as an opportunity for Bickell to make a change that could unlock some options for us? Not at all. Not at all. I will say, to buttress your point a little bit about perception as well. Would you like to be buttressed? I remember, and Clive might remember this as well, when we signed Gilberto Silva and you know people just saw Brazilian midfielder and uh and so they expected that basically they they went for a stereotype right and then uh and actually if you know about Brazilian football like I do um like they they always always have a top class kind of number six um but everyone just thinks like beach samba keepy uppers and all of that and so it took a while for Gilberto to win Arsenal fans over because of their own preconceptions about what a Brazilian midfielder should be.

59:40I think it's going to be similar with Zubimendi. I've seen so much of this. People see like Spanish midfielder, you know, slightly deep lying Spanish midfielder and they're thinking, oh, he must be Busquets, Xabi Alonso, Cesc, you know, and he's not. And a lot of it is like a perception issue. People expecting him to be a player, he's not. However, no, I think you're absolutely right I think there is a potential opportunity there like I said he gets subbed quite a lot and that also tells you something and it's not just about fatigue it's probably largely about fatigue but it's also kind of because Arteta clearly sees him as expendable when it comes down to it you know managers show you who they rate Declan Rice doesn't come off does he the what like the one time he came off against West Ham we did about four podcasts about it about Declan Rice being hooked with half an hour to go other than that doesn't happen like managers show you who they really really kind of trust in those moments so clearly I think Arteta would be thinking about it again I'm going to go but I'm going to be guilty again of doing that thing that the player that's injured is the best player in the world but I think if Mikel Moreno was fit right now I think he'd probably be starting wouldn't he and he might be starting instead of Zubemendy.

1:00:59So, no, that is absolutely an option. We've talked before about, you know, is there potential redundancy when Zubemendy and Erdogan are there? Do we need both of them? Do they stand on each other's toes, et cetera, et cetera? So, I think that's one of... That might be the only place, really, we've got if you're talking about making a change because I still don't want to change the centre-backs. I'd like Uri and Timber to be fit. I'd like Calafuri to be fit, but they're not. I'd like Saka to be fit, but he's not. And we've been changing the forwards all season, and that's kind of a part of the problem.

1:01:33There's very little chemistry up there. There's been so much rotation, so much of a carousel. And so really, if you're talking about changing something, where do you go? You're either going centre-backs. Nope, I'm not doing that. I'm not taking either of those guys out. Or you go to the centre-mids. I'm not taking Rice out either. So yeah, of course. And if and when Erdegaard is fit again, Odegaard and there's a with Rice behind that is that that is absolutely an option and it is one he did try once because it was pretty much the only time all three of those players were available at the same time and yeah it's it's it's got to be worth a try whether we see it in Manchester City for example I kind of doubt it but after that after that I think it's very it's all on the table isn't it yeah paul so uh i i felt tim was talking not just uh to me but maybe about me about the the super no that's the other whatsapp chats yeah because i totally have the i've totally fallen into i thought supermandy was a deep lying playmaker uh from spain of a particular type and And certainly if you listen to anything I said, and who does, early in this season or over the transfer window after we signed Zubimendi, that's what I thought we were getting.

1:02:56The problem I have, Tim, is you have a box you can reassign Gilberto to. I don't know what box I reassign Zubimendi to. He has played for us and for Real Sociedad as the deeper-lying midfielder, the slightly more ball-dominant player, whether it was with Marino at Real Sociedad, with Rice at Arsenal. And so he seems to have this extremely nuanced between three different kinds of players kind of position. I think he's a CM, a CM who plays basically a central midfielder who plays in a double pivot. But that also says he's good-ish at lots of things. He doesn't do anything to a particular high level or extreme, apart from every now and then he turns into a worldie and wins headers.

1:03:55He has no right to win all over the pitch, leaping a foot. He has a couple of things that are a bit extraordinary about him, But everything else is kind of like good, maybe slightly underpowered. And therefore, if his level drops a bit, here's where I get to making excuses for him. If his level drops a bit, maybe he becomes very average quickly because his superpower has been good at everything a bit. And he better not get jaded because I can't remember. It's a long time since I felt good about Zubimendi on the pitch, having a good game. I don't even really remember it that well. I think we were good at the same time.

1:04:35Maybe I ascribed and assigned magical powers to Zubimendi in that moment. I don't really want to ask the big question of what is Zubimendi, but game after game I've hinted at. What exactly is Zubimendi when he is fit and firing? I have time for your point of trying Rice at the six although he's maybe not the perfect six across every parameter he's a fantastic six across several parameters and it gives you a chance to play players ahead of him up the pitch who could hurt an opponent and who feel comfortable standing between the lines receiving the ball like I'm sorry if you received the ball between the lines that might even be Zubimendi we've seen it in some games where he's the right eight and he's kind of dangerous.

1:05:27If you receive the ball between the lines and your only instinct is to go straight backwards, not even to consider turning around and seeing what's in front of you, like eventually teams are going to catch on to that and it emboldens them to push up five yards. I want to get to the subs though. And Clive, this is where I think Mikel has had a mixed season, I think, using his substitutes and he's had some challenges with who's available. I really, really did not like what he did here. First of all, I'm not sure I've ever seen the emergency triple sub thing necessarily, you know, work in terms of changing the flow of a game because you're just disrupting so much all at once.

1:06:02But to me, I think you could have very easily first just said, as of for Gilchores, and you move Kai to nine, and you immediately have more ability to get on the ball. You immediately have more ability to play through the lines. You immediately have more ability to go long and have a focal point and win it and hold it up for others. I think taking Kai off, we actually lost some control after that. Not that Kai was having a brilliant game, but he's someone who can stick his back at him, people can receive the ball. I just thought it was all wrong. Like I didn't really love any of it. And it's not because the players you took off were playing well.

1:06:36Martinelli, Nani Mdweke, and Kai Havertz were all playing poorly. I can understand them coming off. But I don't know that he couldn't have had a bigger impact just using one sub of Ezefiochres and have created more ability to control the game and get our foot on the ball and start to change the dynamic. I see from body language that you may feel differently about that. So tell me what you think.

1:06:58Elliot:Yeah, we're trying to score a goal, not control the game. We're trying to score a goal. The game state requires. I actually thought it's the only three styles we can make. The three behind the striker were not playing well. I am one of the biggest Kai Averbe's fans. And I will say to you now, that's probably the worst game I've seen him playing in a long time. I agree, but isn't that kind of being mad at a horse for not being a giraffe? Like he's the best striker I've seen at Arsenal for years. Basic technical play was not there. He was not getting to the drop. He was, everything was on the stretch.

1:07:32Elliot:I said to my scene ticket mate, Trev, I said, you can tell when a player's tired, don't you? Because every time the ball's coming, he's stretching for it because he couldn't move his feet. And I, you know, some of the technical stuff in wide spaces were just really, really obvious. I thought the three subs were massively obvious. and I was pleased he did it at that time, because I'm looking to change the momentum of this game. My halftime chat was thinking, okay, we've got to be better, because, I mean, I don't want to keep comparing this, but when City came out after halftime against us in the League Cup final and in the game today, versus Chelsea, they came out second half with a purpose, we've got something to win.

1:08:12Elliot:We came out second half, and nothing happened. Nothing happened. And so he thought, you know what, I need to change something here. I need to change the momentum of this game. whenever whatever you do we don't win it's the wrong thing but i if you know i thought it was the right thing to do if i could have done four i'd have done four you know um seriously because we weren't at it earlier we weren't at it and they were getting on top and and so yeah for me and then we what happened the subs came on and ese was okay he showed a bit of ability to get on it trossard didn't have a good didn't have a good game even though he's really got after him similar of body types he was quicker sharper he got after him rubbed him sent him back for a sprint not great and max you know i don't want to judge max he's 16 right if he gets on the ball he's great he moves the ball nicely off the sides we can't expect him to be an everton hero every single time he gets on the pitch right so but that's where we were at that moment in time so i'm fine with it we're all going to go to solutions where we want to be and what type of game we want to see in this game I have a feeling that we weren't playing out the press very well we should have played a different way with the players that we had Bournemouth were good but they were open we could create chances against them it felt like we could get near their box it wasn't like they were blocking us off you know I felt we could get at them I don't believe that Jokic should have come off from the minute one he looked like our best forward on the day his energy was really high whether you like the player or not he was our best forward on the day in this day.

1:09:48Elliot:You know, and he was the one that was working really, really hard. He was invisible at Lisbon, whereas Kai came on at Lisbon and looked like a wonderful forward, you know, second striker. Martinelli came on at Lisbon, oh my God, I was like deleting all my old tweets, he was that good. And then, of course, he comes into this game and this happens. You know, it's like, oh, I wish we had Trossard on the pitch to help us get out of the press. Trossard comes on, gets bullied off the ball. It comes down to player performance and quality and we didn't have it on the day. We didn't have enough players on the day at the right level for me.

1:10:20Elliot:And so I'm not sure what substitute had done, Elliot, but I thought it was the right substitute. Those three behind the striker were the three my eyes were on, and I don't think any of them had good games. I think that's right, like plainly and unequivocally and without any room for debate right. The question of whether the subs were the right ones, I think, you know, is open to debate. I don't debate that those are the players that could easily be identified as the ones to come off. You know what I mean? But Tim, I, well, the Oak Ridge thing is interesting, right? He does stay on and he's a tough player because the argument is you've got to feed him.

1:11:02You've got to give him his chances and he's going to do little else. But, you know, he did take his chance offside very well. He did take his penalty brilliantly. And I will say, as much as I don't think you want to sign players for penalties, when you get a crunch penalty to get you level in a title race, having someone that can smack it in the back of the net like that is great. But he does get good chances late and he doesn't convert. And it's painful. And I just felt that the end state of this game felt very much like nothing had changed in terms of our inability to really get a hold of the ball.

1:11:34Now late, Bournemouth started to drop in a little bit and we had Gabby playing center forward and it was one of those sort of like all hands to the pump end stage type games. I think you can kind of throw that away because that's not a game plan. But do you have a similar feeling to Clive on the subs? And what about the last couple of chances for Yoko Reston in general, just how we tried to change the game and influence the game with the subs that we made? Yeah, I didn't have a problem with it at the time because all three of those players kind of deserve to go off. Yeah, we don't disagree there.

1:12:04Yeah, yeah. And sometimes subs like that as well can be a bit of a soft factory thing. It can be like, I need to change the energy in the stadium. You know, I need to get, because we're not giving the fans anything. And one thing we know about Arteta from pre this game and every other bloody game, he values that. He wants that connection with the supporters. And, you know, maybe it's like, there's no tackles, there's no shots, there's nothing to get anyone excited. So I'm going to throw three guys on and hope to change the energy in the stadium a little bit. didn't work because Trossard was just as bad as the attackers that we had on.

1:12:44Delman, you know, okay, tidy, but couldn't make a huge impact. And as Clive said, we can't expect him to do that every single time. I think in hindsight, we probably should have staggered them. I think the bigger problem for me, and maybe I'm moving on to Bournemouth's second goal, was that goal was coming for 10 minutes. That goal was coming. We kept playing out from the back. We kept playing badly out from the back. And if you look at both goals, it's because essentially because we turned the ball over in our own half, which again goes back to the playing in the wrong areas of the pitch thing.

1:13:22And I was thinking, you know, and again, this is often governed by how you feel in a stadium and whatnot. But the conversation I was having with people next to me that I go with, one of whom is also called Trevor, incidentally. But we were just saying like - And I have a friend who goes named Trevor. So hello to the Trevors. But we were saying like for five or 10 minutes, we just got to go long and stop doing this because like we're going to lose a goal doing this. And the problem was obviously we didn't have Havertz on. And so you go long, you're still going to lose the ball probably because I'm sorry, a big part of the problem with Jocheres is I've never seen a player with that physique so weak at protecting the football unbelievable that a guy could like that guy looks like he could lift me up with one hand right um and I'm a much bigger man than I used to be he cannot trap a football and hold it he can't hold defenders off like his kind of brute strength is kind of useless in those moments because he doesn't know how to position his body how to get look at the way ezzer does it it's it's perfect like the way he gets his arm out the way he gets his shoulder out the way he gets the ball into his circumference yokarez cannot he's zero out of ten at doing that well let's say it too tim the muscles that make you good at holding it up are the ones kaiosaka has their waist down muscles they're in your upper thighs right they're in your backside that's the strength that matters yeah i mean having having great pecs and biceps doesn't help you in football.

1:15:00Elliot:It's about bending your legs, setting your feet, bending your legs so you push up into the player. If you stand straight, you become an easy target to push over. It's just about technique. But that became a problem for us in this game because we couldn't play up to anyone. We didn't have Havertz there and to be fair, he wasn't really winning his aerials either. Again, Mikel Marino would have been a very nice player to have. He's getting really good that marina he is he is he's going to win the ballon d 'or by the end of this podcast um but and that created a problem but we were kind of saying we know that the the like you go long yeah we're probably just going to lose the ball but you know what we're going to lose it 60 yards away not 20 yards away not 30 yards away and that there are times in game and none of us were saying let's just do that until full time it's like you've got to read the moment the goal is coming we can all see it and there are times in a game where you protect your floor and there are times when you protect your ceiling and we did not protect our floor and we needed to be more intelligent and just say do you know what this doesn't feel good for five minutes david riah launch over into the corner flag and just get rid of it and go from there and get a bit more of a like a foot on the mountain i'm not saying that this is great by the way that this is wonderful like flowery tactical football I'm talking about as booting the ball and losing it 70 yards away but I think that's what the situation called for and I guess one of the problems the big triple sub gave us is that we didn't feel comfortable doing that because we didn't have anyone you know in those areas anymore to really play to yeah I will say by the way one moment that I loved in the 70th minute as we lost the ball as a sprints back and takes it right off was it Scott I can't remember who he took it off, but took it off.

1:16:52Wonderful tackle, right? But then he stops. He wins that ball back. Everyone's on their feet. Massive, massive moment. Bit of a momentum swing. And he just stops. Catch his breath. Catch his breath. No, at that point, again, read the moment.

1:17:11Elliot:It's back to tempo, isn't it, mate? You know what, 100 miles an hour down that. Look at the Leverkusen game, right? where he actually does his calf. What does he do there? It's because he goes around three players and tries a shot because he's feeling good. He's feeling confident. And probably, coaching manual-wise, he shouldn't have done that in that moment. But he was feeling that moment and he felt like, I've just smashed one in the top corner in the first half. I fancy it again. Whereas this time, he goes, he wins that tackle. You're right. It's an amazing tackle. Everyone's up on their feet and he stops.

1:17:41And that felt kind of defining of the game, really. Well, you know what did my head in? and I get it. Football's like this, but we go behind and then for 10 minutes, we're racing to get it into the attacking third and trying to get it in the box and it's like, you can play that way at other game states. You can sprint it up the pitch. You can run around like your hair's on fire. Sometimes just a little bit of intensity can go a long way. Well, Clive, you wanted to just weigh in there because I want to get to the big picture stuff before we run out of time.

1:18:12Elliot:I think you sort of edging onto something and we We said it before, and I heard Thierry Henry say it again. We're playing football like we have something to lose rather than have something to win. And that's what we're playing. So we're playing... I want to just be clear, by the way, because I want to be careful. There is a Thierry Henry quote going around, apparently from after the game. It is a made-up quote. It is a fabrication. Well, I said this a few weeks ago. Okay, so we'll make it a Clive quote. It's a Clive quote. We are playing, and we've been set up psychologically to feel as though we're winning.

1:18:40Elliot:Pep Guardiola just said in his press conference that Arsenal are the best team in Europe. What is that telling you? and saying they're the team with everything to lose they're the best team in europe we're getting the big brother pat on the head clive is what blah blah blah hold on it's about psychologically setting us up they're the team for going for the quadruple oh they've lost two trophies that they had we never had them they've lost two and it's all about what they can lose and that seeped into the dressing room rather than thinking we have an opportunity and that's what we need to turn this around and it only happens with a good result maybe at city at the weekend given the stuff that's in on my ipad right now about them city fans drinking out of an arsenal bottle and jerky doing the keepy ups i'm telling you elliot if these players don't react to that i'm out i'm having an issue with the players because you have to have some personal pride about you you have to have the minerals you have to i don't care what happens but it's a long studs day they need to feel it, mate.

1:19:41Elliot:You need to have that about you if you want to win the biggest trophies in the game. This is a test for us. Is there a test for this sub or who plays six and eight? This is a test for everybody. Are you going to fight for it? Or are you going to be scared to go and grab it? And they're going to have to fight for it because I'll tell you this right now. We're going to be the less talented team on that pitch. And that's just the reality of where we are right now. There is not enough talent for us to be the best team in England. We have to find a way to grind it out. Now, if we had even gotten a draw against Bournemouth, it would be in our hands.

1:20:17It is no longer, now you can say it's in our hands. If we get a result at City, it's in our hands. If they get a result against us, it's in their hands. So technically, it's in both our hands, which is lovely. That's a beautiful image of togetherness, but that's not really how we want it. I just think we've reached a point now, thanks to injury, and you can debate why there's all these injuries and why it keeps happening to our season. overplaying or this, that, the other thing. There's a great... We could do all kinds of arguments and reopen old wounds like, should you throw the League Cup? And should you take the domestic Cup seriously?

1:20:52We can go back over all of that, but it is what it is. When Nani Madueke and Leo Trissartor Martinelli and Jokeres line up against Holland and Doku and Semenyo and Cherki and Silva, there's a deficit there. And it can only be made up with effort and heart and belief and intensity because sometimes that's enough. Now, I have to tell you something, Paul. I have, and no one's, this is the hard part, right? If I'm honest and I say positive things, people say you're only saying positive things because you think people want to hear it. And if you're honest, you say negative things, people say you're negative.

1:21:25I'm going to tell you what I believe. And I've been WhatsAppping this to friends, okay? I have some 2022-23 vibes coming off this right now. In 22-23, we were the best team in the league. We were top of the table for most of the league. season. We suffered some important injuries that took out talent in areas where we really needed it. We fell away a little bit and the game at the Etihad, which wasn't going to be a must win, turned into a game where we needed a result and we got slapped by an informed city when we were kind of licking our wounds. Here we are again, going to the Etihad at the nadir of our form, licking our wounds, now needing a result with key players missing.

1:22:05It does feel redolent of 22-23 to me and we all know how that season ended we fell badly away and then won a few games at the end when it stopped mattering I don't think that'll happen this time I don't think there's a world where the title doesn't go down to the last one or two games now I think it's just going to I think we're in it for the long run but it it is the case that if City are able to beat us at the Etihad we no longer control whether we win the title or not and I sure wish they were playing Bayern Munich in midweek instead of sitting at home and getting ready for it so I'm I'm in a bit of a dark place.

1:22:38I can say that among friends, you guys on the pod and all of you listening, we're all friends. We all love each other, right? I'm in a dark place right now. I feel really bad. I had finally started to think this really could happen. We really could win a title for the first time in 22 years. The betting odds are telling me we're 95%. The statistical data boys are telling me that we're 95 % and data girls tell me we're 95%. And here we are. And I look at it and I say, if we can't get a result at the Etihad, it's not even in our hands anymore. So yeah, I'm in a bit of a dark place. Yeah, thanks for that, Elliot.

1:23:08And I'm curious, you know, how you see that challenge and how we don't turn this into 22, 23 all over again. Yeah, well, you're a 22, 23 guy. I'm more of a 23, 24 guy where we went to the Etihad, got a result and still came second. So you're saying we went at the Etihad and then lose at home to Newcastle. That's what you're telling me. by the way joe linton suspended for his trip to the emirates so that's a little help there anyway go ahead well that's good um what was i gonna say so um i'm not sure i buy the if we lose at the etihad it's no longer in our hands it's as much in our hands as theirs isn't it well they will have passed us on goal difference presumably and we will be level on points essentially so in other words if we went out and they went out it'll come down to goal difference And if it does come down to goal difference, you're going to have to feed me all kinds of Xanax or something.

1:24:05Because there's no way I survive a title that comes down to goal difference. That's not happening. But it's not coming down to goal difference. But it would be still in our hands as much as their hands. When was the last time in the Premier League? If we win all our games and they win all their games following that, they would presumably be champions unless we goal difference them. Well, we'd be on the same number of points and it'd be a goal difference race. Right, like I said, I'm not prepared to live through that. Yeah, and it never ever comes down to goal difference. It'll still be the team that puts in the results and gets the results from here on in, as it always is.

1:24:39But to lean into your, here's where I'll fully back you. Feeling pretty gloomy. I'm so gloomy, I'm going to go back to my original point is the answers won't come from here. I'm not sure we even bubbled up enough answers to make us all believe that we got an answer here that tilts it. The answers have to come from Mikel, his team, the leaders in our team, and they need to be different. And we probably need some different players in the, like, I just think we were screwed. I continue to think we were a bit screwed in terms of how that game was going to go, knowing how Bournemouth were going to play us.

1:25:26You could write down how they were going to attack, how they were going to press, go man to man. They did it at their ground. They'd had three weeks rest. They were going to come back at us. I understand why we played it around the back. I think we played it reasonably well. You can't do it for 90 minutes, though. That was the problem. I think we played reasonably well around the back, out from the back, got nowhere, got stuffed over. 90 minutes, that's a big ask. And at the end of the day, we played like the smaller team away from home rather than the bigger team at home chasing the title. And we can talk about how we could have done this or that in that game.

1:26:03We were fucking, excuse my language. We were miles off. We were miles off. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's our worst performance of the season. I really, really do under the circumstances. Yeah. And then you step away and forget the details. At this stage, you're at home against Bournemouth. If you didn't get the results you wanted, it should have been terrible luck, a freak call, a referee with an agenda against you. It shouldn't be. They were the better team, and we looked like the smaller team away from home, and they dominated the game.

1:26:41So that's one issue. We've got a few more of those games coming up. This was a game in London. We've got more games in London. the Etihad game is the only one away from London we need to find some way of recharging those batteries get in a different mindset changing some of the lineup get Saka back get I'm an Odegaard man I I think I've made no secret of that and I would have wanted look we haven't had well it would have helped in this game I think everybody agrees yeah hugely yeah now maybe it would have made no difference maybe he would have had a bit of a stinker but i'm sorry that's what you're looking for here you're looking for an odegaard fitting in and firing uh somebody who can the ball can stick to him somebody like all that dropping in deep maybe you see now a little bit why he drops in deep more than we might some people might like somebody needs to step in there get on the ball and play with intention, even if you don't always see that from him.

1:27:46And drive us up the pitch and look for those, and have an extra midfielder in midfield that gets us on the ball and gets us looking up the pitch. Even if you want to say, well, he should be up the pitch receiving the ball from himself. Well, he's kind of the guy who drops in, didn't always get it right, but I'm massively in the Odegaard camp that if there's something that changes the dynamic in this particular team at the moment, it'll be a fit and firing Odegaard finding relationships up the pitch, becoming a bit of a hub. He hasn't been brilliant, but he's been better than that. And if he can get fit firing, help us with our press.

1:28:29Because that's another thing we missed in this game. It's just missing completely. Yeah. And it's not a bunch of guys. They had a coordinated press. I don't know what we had. we need an orchestrator he's been an orchestrator yeah i mean look if we show up at the edihad and the team sheet comes out and it's timber and it's saka and it's odegaard and it's rice and it's ezza and it's kai and it's yo martinelli like let's go you know let's let's go i i think that would be the funny thing is if you say what's the shot in the arm this team needs the shot in the arm this team needs is a team sheet where the guys we trust to do it in crunch time are on the team sheet because you look on that team sheet and what you're saying is who's gonna do it in crunch time And if I see Saka and Timber and Odegaard and Eza and Kai, I at least have some belief that there are players out there that will do it.

1:29:16Now look, Clive, and let me say this, by the way, because I think this is really important. I'm very down. I'm very nervous that it might not happen. But no matter what happens at the Etihad, no matter what happens at the Etihad, it's home to Newcastle, home to Fulham, at West Ham, home to Burnley, at Palace. you win those games you got a really good chance to be champions no matter what happens at the etihad a really good chance and before you go railing the manager out players out everyone stinks i hate this club i hate this team this team can still deliver you a title deliver themselves a title deliver all of us a title so we have to at least find a way to get composure ourselves it feels good sometimes to rail and to rage it does catharsis is a thing but we got to set that aside for now because there's big things to go win we've got one foot in the champions league semifinals and even if we lose it the Eddie had by five goals we've got games I still back us to win to give us a good chance to be lifting the title on the final day lifting the trophy so you gotta find the composure from somewhere and Clive there are people that are going to say this is the defining moment for the Mikel Arteta project and that's where I do agree I do think it's got to happen this season.

1:30:31I do think that this is the defining moment for this group of players, for this manager to get this over the line, because I think it would be very hard if it doesn't happen for everybody to lift themselves to try this again after four consecutive second places. I hope we're not discussing that come May. And I'm not saying we will be, but I'm just curious if you see this as a pivotal defining moment for this project in this era, what happens over these next six games?

1:30:59Elliot:You know, in the ground yesterday, because people hung around a little bit because it was a nice weather and no point in rushing home. And there was one single person in the ground that didn't think that City were not going to win their next seven, eight games, whatever he was. And then we're going to lose four in there at City and we're going to blow the lot. So doom washes over you. And then over a period of time, you start to look around and think, actually, if we win at City next week, we've been nine points clear with five games to go. And that scenario is like not even in my mind because we're not playing well enough for that scenario to be in my mind.

1:31:35Elliot:But that is football, that is sport. So when I get a little bit lost in my doom-laden place, I try to speak to other people and other professionals in other sports and I speak to them and they're just like so calm. Ah, it's just one game. You can come back. I feel like, yeah, but we've got a week this year. we got to do it, we got to do it, we got to do it. And he's like, it's just another game. Just another game. You know, and let's go from there. Let's go for the next one. Let's go for the next one. Let's go for the next one. And there needs to be a little bit of matter of fact about this. Hey, look, I was low.

1:32:09Elliot:I recorded how low I was yesterday, you know. Me too. And I recorded it. So I'm not saying I wasn't low. And I'm still low because we're not doing what I thought we would do. And that's what concerns me a little bit. but I haven't got the problem I don't walk with the problem these players need to walk with the problem they need to say how do I want to be defined how do I want to be defined as Arsenal players I don't I don't think any supporter deserves to have the mickey taken out of them for all the narratives coming home to roost I don't believe that, I don't believe the fans deserve it I really don't, it's up to us as a club to respond to what's happened in the last few weeks particularly the last three domestic games and like mate I wish I could play but I can't play all I can do is support the team right that's all I can do and hope they turn it around and if they don't and we get with then changes need to be made and that's exactly what's going to happen if we win changes are going to be made anyway yeah you know and and that's the fact of it we're heading to a point of renewal that's it that is just simple as any sort of high performance team plan this point is coming right now it's coming we're not coming back with the same group of players no matter what happens and for some people all the players need to be fired down the language and all the coaches that's up to them to say that but i we don't what about the stewards yeah we don't we i love the stewards

1:33:35Elliot:we don't have the problem we just we just we're doing our job at the moment all right so um and if we can keep as much positivity around even though we all feel absolutely sick to our stomachs right now then that's all we can do that's all we can do and it's up to them to produce it come next weekend we could be rolling into City as the only team in the Champions League and an opportunity to finally go to northwest of England and win a game of football with hopefully some of our key players fit if that happens then I'm going to sit down and watch that game and hope we do it and if we do it it's going to be the best season ever if we don't you know what it means Elliot we're not good enough it's a simple and then you have to do something different and then we have to make change regardless.

1:34:25Elliot:We're not good enough because this year I think we are good enough. Previous years, first year we were kids. Second year we took too long to get Kai Haverson sent it forward. Third year we were broken, injured and PGML'd. And this year we're good enough. We're experienced enough. We've been around the houses. We've made changes. We add depth to the squad. We're good enough. if we don't do it it's on us this is our time it's on us no excuses it's not on the fans we don't play right and um it's not on us the podcasters we don't play they play you know and um might be a little if I played trust me truthfully I'll be running off my shoulder so uh so yeah we just gotta hopefully stay as positive as we can because I remember Nelson Vivas season Tim when we went to Leeds and lost it wasn't lost then when Sol Campbell elbowed Solskjaer see that season coming on mixing seasons up yeah 99 was Vivas 2003 was Sol Campbell Sol Campbell it wasn't lost but we almost thought ourselves into losing it do you know what I mean we still had opportunities and we do I don't want to do that now even though I feel it like everyone else does I just want to hold on to the positivity as long as possible until it if it goes wrong it goes wrong but if it goes wrong I'm not saying I'm cool, but come on.

1:35:50Elliot:It's clear. You've got to make changes if it goes wrong. There are some people who are going to say, you're blinkered idiots. It's over. It's clearly over. Let me tell you something. I know why you say that, because you think it protects you. That if you say that, then you can't be hurt by it. And I'm going to tell you the problem with that. You'll still be hurt by it. Screaming that Mikel's to see you next Tuesday and the players are to see you next Tuesday, and it's over and we've lost it already, may feel like it's good because it protects you from being hurt. It won't protect you. so there's no point doing it you're gonna have to just go on this ride and see where it goes and it hurts and it's scary and it's scarier than we wanted it to be and it's only getting scarier as it goes and if it doesn't happen it's gonna hurt like hell and it doesn't matter if you curse and scream now it's still gonna hurt like hell so I get the catharsis I do you know what's not on for me abusing the manager calling him names dismissing him pretending like you always knew he was a fraud that that's not on because this manager showed up when this club was nowhere nowhere run by buffoons okay when this club had toxic players in the dressing room and this manager in his first managerial job had to root them out had to work with some executives who I don't think were at the top of the game and you can look at where they are in their career right now and tell me if you think they're at the top of the game because they're not at Arsenal right now and how's it going for them not as well as it's going at Arsenal now that doesn't mean I don't see the flaws in Mikel doesn't mean I don't see issues with our attacking recruitment doesn't mean I think he's managed brilliantly in every single game this season.

1:37:16That's not what I'm saying. But he took us from there and he took us to a place that most of us didn't think we'd ever get back to. Top of the table in Europe. Top of the table in the Premier League. Chance to win them both. Multiple seasons on. The pain of not doing it will hurt and there's probably a really good argument for making a change if we don't. But it's not on having to go at him in that way. It just isn't on. To dismiss the good and pretend it never happened. Like you've known it all along. Because no one else, not Arsene Wenger, not Unai Emery, not anyone else has had this club in this position since 2003, 2004, 22 years.

1:37:48Okay. And, and, and so, you know, that's again, that is not me saying, I don't see the flaws. I absolutely do. We've covered them on this pod. We'll cover them on future pods. And if this doesn't work out, I think there's a big argument for change, but it's not on rewriting history and pretending that it isn't what it is, which is that we've had a very talented person come in in their first job and turn this club around and make it one of the big clubs again, grow the badge, make it mean something, make us a respectable part of the European elite again. Something we were not. We weren't even in the Europa League.

1:38:17Let alone the Champions League. Let alone the semifinals of it. I'm glad we're playing on Wednesday. I'll tell you that much. Most of the time I'd say I wish we had the rest before the Etihad. But if we get into the Champions League semifinal on Wednesday which God willing we will do. That's at least just a little bit of salve. A little bit of balm. These players can think hey I'm in the last four of Europe again. Those guys we're facing aren't in it. They got knocked out. It's just a little something. Let's hope it's enough. Guys okay if we leave it there? yeah okay sorry little monologue to end the pod but i just think it's important that like i get why you want to say all the big stuff it doesn't protect you you know and what i will say is like it it feels better when we're winning but it never feels bad to say that my love for arsenal is a thing that helped me help humans and we help young humans with this fundraiser this month.

1:39:05It's going on for another 20 days or so in 18 days, 171 ,000 pounds. Please help us get to 200. If we get to our goal this year, we fund the five-year program. And then we can say with pride, we will not be abandoning the kids that are in this phase of the program. I mean, that's, that's worth it. You talk about growing the badge and what it means to love the club. That's what it means. Doesn't matter about trophies. If you do that means something more. so please help links in the notes Tim thank you my pleasure as always well said thanks man thanks Paul woohoo Clive thanks man thank you very much we'll have loads of patron stuff this week obviously an instant reaction after this sporting game and a lot of build up to the Etihad it's a scary time but we stick together and we love each other because that's all we have okay it's all gonna be alright or it isn't but we'll get through that too we love you and we'll talk to you after Arsenal 10 sporting note

1:40:04C avec moi