Concerns Intensify Following Painful United Loss

35:18That it was inexcusable the way we played in that period? We became craven. We became passive. We gave the ball away. We saw it against Bournemouth. We had a 3-1 lead. It should be nice and comfortable. We give the ball away. We give it to them. We step back. Kruppi scores a goal. Reminds me a little bit, by the way, of the Cunha goal. Just in terms of the way there's space in the center of the pitch for a player to step onto a shot. But I don't like what we do when we get a lead. It feels like mission accomplished. And so I can't explain it. I need your help understanding why we're playing the wrong place in the wrong way.

35:48Well, it's very, very simple.

35:49Elliot:Very, very simple. So obviously you're a data man and you can quote the data and it's absolutely great. I try to look at the why as a solution. Mate, we stop moving. we stop moving as simple as that we stop moving right so and then what happens then the heart of your team drops back me and tim talk about this a lot with the women's team our best ball players are probably too close to our center backs and so the heart of the women's team seems to be a little bit deeper located the same with us our best ball player is saliba then it's super mendy they always want to show you know they always want to show you know so then what happens then you're taking the emphasis of the game back towards you but this is where you need leadership right you need to say no we've got to go we've got to go in behind them we've got to go we've got to play from there play seconds but we didn't have our reference point at the top you know jesus holding the ball up in the land is one thing oh i'm sorry back to gps time i couldn't find him again yeah right so and i he's not where i want him to be when we're under stress when we're under stress what do I need?

36:57Elliot:I need structure. I need ability to refer to you. So people who are on ball reference points, like Martin Odegaard, brilliant at this. He is somebody, when we're under a bit of stress, I'll give it to me, lads. I'll have five passes with you, five passes with you, five passes with you. He didn't do that on this occasion. You know, and I want him to do that. I actually want him to play in this game for this exact reason, to manage our stress. I knew what's coming. Get on the ball, a million touches, please, because that makes us feel or in control. I don't care if they're simplistic passes. Just get on it, get it moving, circulate, circulate, circulate, and control the psychology of the game.

37:35Elliot:When it flipped, when we scored, it flipped to them, and they started to control it, and they started to waste a bit of time on the ball, slow it down. And, mate, that was it. This was a psychological battle that they won. They won it. It's not a football battle. If it's footballers, we've got a better team. We've got a million more points than them. but it's this is a psychological battle they want it they want it and we have to accept that and have that conversation now but what we do when we're under a bit of pressure where do we go how do we react this is the barrier to success i promise you yeah well let's just quickly touch on the moment where they equalize tim it's a terrible error from zubomendi i do think moments analysis of football matches can be bad, but to Mikel Arteta's point, he said this was a moments game.

38:27And I think that's right in some ways, but I think it misses the point in other ways. No offense, Mikel. Like, the moments decided this game, but there were clear issues with how we played that even had we gone on to win, would still be that little flashing warning light that I said. So let's just deal with and dismiss this moment. Zubamendi makes an error. It's a terrible error. It's the kind we haven't seen much of. We've shipped some dumb goals. I'm actually a lot more concerned about the two chances they fashioned before that, where they played the ball right through us to create clear chances while our players were asleep and giving the ball away.

39:06But would your analysis of the Zubimendi error just be individual? How do you assess that moment? Yeah, I mean, if you look at it, and by the way, I think it's the same with the second goal. I mean, it's a worldie from Dorgue, but the way we started the second half was dreadful, like absolutely dreadful start to the second half. To Mikel's credit, he was honest about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And in this one, you can kind of look around it. We have the ball and we decide not to go forwards and Odegaard doesn't really drop to receive it. He doesn't come and get it, which again, to your point, Clive, we were under a bit of stress.

39:48they'd created a couple of chances that that's you know people talk a lot and i understand it about odegaard like where he receives the ball and dropping back between the center backs and stuff like that but at that time yeah i want i want because that's that's just a stress release valve isn't it it's like let's give it to our most secure player and not mess around for a couple of minutes and in five ten minutes we can worry about him perhaps playing a through ball or something but let's keep this under control. And Zubermen, I mean, you know, trying to pop that off first time, that looked like an anxious decision to me.

40:25I think he's got time to take a touch and set himself and make sure it travels there. But like, he looks scared. He looks under stress at that particular moment as well. But there were things we didn't have to be playing with the ball there anyway. I think we had options for forward passes. Odegaard could have dropped in and we could have just come out, made the game boring for a couple of minutes and just kind of got our foot back on it. So it's obviously Zubimendi's mistake. There's no way we'd look at that passage of play in any sort of detail if that pass just lands. But yeah, it was kind of symptomatic.

41:03And to be honest, I think that mistake could have been made by any number of our players at that moment in time. When you're passing percentages dropping by 20%, that's not one player that's everyone you know crapping themselves frankly yeah yeah clive you

41:20Elliot:want to add to that yeah tim's absolutely bang on supermendy's the one that actually moved to receive it he was brave enough not to mark himself actually i'm going to drop out and come and get it and try to get some passing movements going and he suffered for it he suffered for being brave everyone else up the pitch standing next to their opponent may i see you and i guarantee you i do the video rewatch the manager will see him right so i know i i think when we pick this baller team with jesus trossard odegaard in in your midfield they need to show for the ball yeah because we don't expect them to out jump home aguiar and out muscle dallo for example but mate your feet are sweet show for the ball because then we start to move them around if you're going to stand next to somebody then what are we doing seriously what are we trying to achieve so when saliba looks up he's thinking where do I go everyone's marked oh Marty's dropped out okay I'll knock it to him you know and this and but where was the next pass where's the next pass forward where was somebody and I come back to reference where was that person to say give it to me in here I'll hold it and get us out of this area where is the manager saying we don't be playing here at the moment we just be playing out there because we're around settled you know so in fact you can feel these moments I mean Tim I know you felt it you could sense it coming couldn't you could sense I could sense that goal coming more than our goal coming even though we were dominant you could sense it you could sense something's going to happen then we'd have to react to that but the problem was that Manchester United scored a worldy second goal that was beautifully crafted and that was not in the script a part of us felt that Man United might score but not score two and certainly not score three and so now we're into a situation where the start of the second half maybe dictated a number of changes.

43:13Elliot:And that tells me something that some strong words I had at halftime, a time you've got 10 minutes, mate, and nothing changed. And he said, right, I'll show you I'm serious. Bang. Emotional, four subs. Off you come. And so, hence my line at the start of the show. I hope the lads all going out for curry this week because I reckon there'd been a lot of harsh words to have that dressing room. Something's a little wrong. something's a little wrong Declan Rice knows it you know don't put it on the people on social media or the podcasters the youtubers or your friends in the whatsapp chat who you think are the anxious ones because Declan Rice walks off the pitch at Forrest and says every fucking time right near the camera I mean he's entitled by the way I got no problem with our star player expressing frustration my point isn't to pick on him every fucking time what does that mean that means that somewhere in his mind the words every fucking time came up because he feels that every time that there's a big moment, we let it slip or something goes wrong.

44:10I'm not saying that's what I believe. I'm saying that's what he said. Something's not quite right. Okay. And was it the Villa game where we came out and stormed them after halftime? And I said, whatever Mikel said in that halftime talk, you should bottle it up and use it constantly, spray it all over his body. I think it's a little bit worrying that we went in one, one with an inferior United team at home with the title charge in mind and came out and got blown away at the start of the second half. 35 % of the ball. Not in the game. And needing four subs at 57 minutes to try to get some momentum back.

44:42That's not a great sign that there was no response available. And it's not just about emotion. The other team gets to do things too, but that's an inferior Manchester United team. They outplayed us in midfield. Look at their midfield. Casemiro, Mainu, and Fernandez. We have Declan Rice, Martin Odegaard, and Zubamendi. Something's not right. Martin Odegaard passed the ball at 67 % yesterday. He had 14 completed passes. I think he's got his wires crossed right now. Martin Odegaard likes to come back between the center backs, pick up the ball, and bring it forward. He's not. He's going and standing a little further forward.

45:15I think it's become muddy in his mind now. The things he does naturally that work for him, clearly something's not working because Martin Odegaard doesn't pass the ball at 67 % and play only 14 passes in the game.

45:25Elliot:We're going to talk about the midfield. I'll tell you this. I did a little bit of re-watching this morning. Please. I just want to bring one thing, because my thoughts on Odegaard are out there, right? So I'm not going to keep digging him out. Well, it's a poor performance, and the whole midfield, by the way, had a poor performance. Yeah, but people will get there in their own time. So what I think is, I'm watching him doing a lot more coaching than playing. He's really focused on everyone else's job, because he's a real captain, right? He's a real leader. but actually at this moment in time I need you to lead on the ball and if you watch the game again please when you see it you'll see what I mean it's like you stand there you go here come on come up come up come up I don't want you to coach anymore because I think the team understands our philosophy just need you to play just need you to play and by the way he's not alone Jesus come and play come and get on the ball show that rat attack you had in Milan where you were unbelievable where where was you trust us started bright faded a bit you know i need you to play i need to get on it it's what we need from you you know and so this is the messages we've got to get back to playing the game that that we the game plan that we had we don't need you to coach anymore martin we need you to play really important that you play and own that position own that role and start playing key passes into the right parts of the pitch this is not about talent this is about your psychological ability to implement your talent under pressure.

46:59Elliot:And this is where we are as a team at the moment. And we struggled in this game when we lost that battle. Yeah, that's well said. Where's the technical security? I mean, at some point in the game, when you're the better team, when you're the home team, when you're the dominant team, get your foot on the ball and keep it. Clive, your words always ring in my ears. Can you get to five passes? You know, where's the technical security? And how can it go so quickly? How can you have 73 % of the ball for 30 minutes and all the field field. At one point we had all the touches, the final third, they had none, none.

47:32And then pieces went to pieces. I mean, it is, it is hard to explain without going to mentality. And I do think there's a point at which you're trying to win the title with every pass you play, with every shot you take, with every tackle you make. You are literally trying to pass the ball to win the title, to shoot the ball, to win the title, because for three years, you've been runners up and you know you deserved a title over that time. You've been good enough. But you can't win the title with every pass and every shot in every game. And there has to be a way to ease that pressure valve. So we got to get into some individuals.

48:04We got to get into some of what happened in the second half and how the game came to a pretty unfortunate finish. I think it's fair to say, but there's nothing that will cheer you up and help you get ready for more of this lighthearted conversation, like learning about the brands that are going to change your life. And one of them is Factor Brand. The first factor is food, and we all love food. The code is ArsenalVision50OFF, 50 % off your first factor box, plus a free breakfast for a year, and we'll tell you more about that offer in a moment. But look, I spent most of my life as a single man because I got married later in life, and I can tell you that one of the things I hated was trying to figure out what I was going to eat.

48:44There was a lot of eating less healthy than I should, last-minute decision-making, ordering in, spending a lot of money on ordering food. What you want is healthy food. You want food that works with your lifestyle, whether it's trying to add muscle or lose weight, if you're on a GLP-1, whatever the case is, you want good, healthy, nutritional food with no cleanup, no frustration, no preparation. That's what factor is. Lean proteins, colorful vegetables, whole foods, healthy fats, the stuff you'd make if you had the time. Look, I like to cook for company, but not every day. This is no refined sugars, no artificial sweeteners.

49:16It's food. It shows up. It's fresh. It's never frozen. It's ready in two minutes with no prep, no cleanup, and no mental load. So whatever your goals for food, Factor is the solution. Head to factormeals.com slash arsenalvision50off. Put that in the show notes. Use code arsenalvision50off to get 50 % off your first Factor box plus free breakfast for a year. Offer only valid for new Factor customers with coding, qualifying, auto-renewing, subscription purchase. Make healthier eating easy with Factor. And NordVPN is the VPN that lets you watch all the stuff wherever you are. the days of the internet being geolocked are over for good if you use nordvpn nordvpn is the way to get around the geolocked videos that you can't watch and everyone's telling you oh it's the best video or if you want to watch the match reviews of the day show maybe not this weekend per se but many weekends this season actually it's been extraordinary if you want threat protection because occasionally you're going on the streams that you might otherwise not want to uh be on because they can damage your computer.

50:15You get threat protection from Nord and highly, highly rated for speed, which is important. It's not going to throttle your speed. You put it on your phone, your tablet, whatever it is. It's an app. You click. You say, I want to browse here. Boom. You're around those geolocks that try to lock you out. So nordvpn.com slash arsenalvision, nordvpn.com slash arsenalvision, nordvpn.com slash arsenalvision is the code. Get four bonus months on top of a huge discount off your plan and 30-day money-back guarantee so it's risk-free. nordvpn.com slash arsenalvision. Do it now, Glenn. Is that enough of that?

50:43Elliot:Indeed. Okay. Tim, we referenced the subs. I want to get into a little bit of individual analysis here. I want to stick with the attack for a minute, though, because you referenced it. Look, Sky Sports, it will come as no surprise to you. Put a graphic up on the screen that has been shared widely, and it is horrible use of data, and it has been incredibly manipulated, okay? they put up Kaio Saka, Victor Yocres, Gabriel Martinelli, Nani Meduake, and Leo Troussard's goal return. But for Saka, they used all comps. For Yocres, they used non-penalty goals in Premier League. For Gabriel Martinelli, they used appearances in the Premier League.

51:25For Nani Meduake, appearances in the Premier League. And for Troussard, all comps. Okay? And it's all appearances, so it doesn't even tell you the number of minutes. So it's all mixed and matched. But even if I strip out the P-hacking they're doing, the data hacking they're doing to try to make it look worse. It's still no goals for Saka in 13 appearances in all comps, no non-penalty goals for Jokras in last 11 Premier League appearances, no goals for Martinelli in last 13 Premier League appearances, no goals for Nani Meduake in 25 Premier League appearances or assists, by the way. One goal for Leandro Tassard in the last 11 appearances in all comps.

51:57At some point, no matter what fancy tactical stuff Clive's got in his brain that he can communicate with us, no matter how we can break down games, someone has to do what Dorgu did or what Cunha does. What Odegaard did, by the way, I think against Brighton, right? When he smashed it in from the edge of the box. What Ezzet did against Spurs. It's all well and good that we have set pieces and I think they're sustainable. It's all well and good to bundle in own goals who I think is our leading non-penalty goal scorer now or bundle in goals from corners like Marino did. That's great. But you do have to have some quality with the end product from the key players that are paid handsomely to put the ball in the back of the net.

52:33And I can't get away from the fact that whatever you want to say about Mikel Arteta or our system, right now, those players are not delivering. Yeah, simple as that. Okay, moving on. But yeah, like I said earlier, though, I do think it's unlikely that they've all just stopped at the same time, that they're all just simultaneously going through things. That made me think, like, where have our goals come from recently? Who's been scoring them? And it's like Rice got two against Bournemouth, didn't he? And Gabriel got one. and then in the Chelsea game, Zubimendi and Jokeres gets one in that game and Ben White from a set piece.

53:11We definitely have an issue creating from open play, without doubt. Whether that's because opponents have figured us out a bit as well, I think that could definitely be a bit of it as well. I just keep coming back to the fact that we have, I think, a collection of really good attackers. Saka's the only one that's close to elite though and ultimately you need those game breakers and our game breaker is Nicolas Jova at the moment. It's like our game breakers in the dugout not on the pitch. Like how many times Man City 1-0, Haaland, Liverpool 1-0, Salah, Arsenal 1-0, Henry. We just don't have that player and I think we've kind of tried to augment it by having lots of really good players but who still aren't quite of that level and I still think and don't get me wrong like those players they're a premium and they're generally not available and I don't think there were any available in the summer and I even think it was like the Alvarez links for example as well I think good player but is it 1-0 Alvarez like eight times a season?

54:25Probably not. It feels like that's another very good attacker. We have loads of those. We have too many of them. And I just can't get away from the fact that we just don't have that. If you're a betting person, who do you bet on to score for Arsenal at the moment? It'd be one of the defenders, or maybe Mikel Moreno. It would be probably going to come from a set piece. And yeah, I feel like we've stacked a lot of very good players, but I also think that's just creating a bit of an issue because there's so much chopping and changing between games, in games. Maybe in a couple of months it'll all click and we'll get used to all this rotation and we'll be much stronger for it.

55:10I hope so. But at the moment, it feels a bit like, I think what would have made a much, much bigger difference in the summer would have been being able to get one elite attacker rather than buying three quite good ones. yeah I

55:34you can only say the same thing so many times before people get annoyed and I've probably worn out my welcome already like I just I don't think money ball works in football I don't think we can create him in the aggregate works like we don't need the superstar we can have six really good players no I don't think so goal scoring has been a persistent issue for this team basically in every single instance and iteration under Mikel Arteta with one exception from January to May. We all know it. We scored 91 goals. It's excellent. And by the way, I do want to be clear. This open play goals stuff, people will be like, oh, do the set pieces not count?

56:12They absolutely count. We should not dismiss them and they are sustainable. That's why we could win the league and the Champions League and the League Cup and the FA Cup because we have that extra something special. But just like if we were shit at set pieces we would say we need to stop being shit at set pieces we're a little bit shit from open play right now we need to not be and clive like i do think there there there are some people and by the way when i say some people i'm not saying on social media i mean like people i talk to reason friends of mine you know reasonable people who think we do have one star player in attack and that it would be fair to suggest that the star player in attack that it's okay to ask for more from that star player?

56:56Everybody's going to have a different place to point a finger of responsibility. But what do you think of that, that Bakayo Saka has to wear a bit more of a cape for us because the return end product-wise, even though he's involved in so much we do right, the end product still could come up.

57:13Elliot:Yeah, so if we're going to do that, we have to enable him to do that. And so because our best player is also our best creator. And he could be our best scorer if we allowed him to do less creating and more scoring. You know, that means positionally he has to slightly change to get closer to the goal. I think, you know, when we were talking in the last few weeks about this and we were talking about, I'm not worried about us yet, but when the stress comes, I am more worried about us yet. Even that Villa game was wonderful. Remember the first goal? set piece header bundled in after that we were unbelievable so the ability to break open games is an issue for us so so when you just always think that someone has a default personality right so trust our default wise he's a creator that can score when under stress i'm going to create for you you know i can beat my man i can put a ball in right so that's him done jesus i'm a wigger by heart that plays up front i like to get on the ball and dribble and but goal scoring is not my primary thing i'm just a forward that can play so that's him out right only guards a creator right but really he he's a bit more of an all-rounder to get on the ball in different areas some of that away from the goals that's him out right so when we played jesus in milan he was able to flow and it all looked so great why he had two reference points in ese marino right near him.

58:40Elliot:They can play up to them. They've got big legs. They can protect the ball and he can roll off them. We can work off that reference point. In this game, we didn't have that. Rice and Zubmendi were too far away and so was Odegaard. So we had a small Jesus, a small Trossard trying to affect their back line. So we had to affect their back line based on waves and being out of possession and stuff until we couldn't. Then what? Where are we going? I'll tell you where we're going to go. We're going to go to number seven who's got Dorgoo and Shaw right there. We knew what was going to happen. is like Maswari.

59:11Elliot:What was it, Bayern Munich? A couple of years ago, Maswari played left back and someone was in front of him. Two left backs. You can see it coming all week. You know, you can see it coming all week. And so, every time I see some of the mini criticisms of Saka out there, and I am someone who looks at the game and when I'm sitting there, I'm thinking, how can we get the ball to him? Yes. I have that anxiety. And I've had that anxiety maybe now for nearly two years. How can we get the ball to him? Under stress, nothing has changed. We're still going into number seven. How can we get there quickly?

59:49Elliot:Can you beat two men, please, and put it into the box? Because that's who we are under these difficult moments. And so, yeah, you're quite right. I'll tell you there's one moment concerning it. You had a shot near post. Remember the shot near post? Keep the save really, really well. I was really, really pleased with that. Didn't that win us the corner that we scored from? may have done I'm not sure I think he might be right so it's a great shot right and he snapped it earlier I thought brilliant that's the sort of stuff you want to see but there was one later in the game where we did some good play on the right hand side and it came to Saka in the box and he chose to lay off to Madweki and that's the time you're in the box you just roll it out to your left foot and smash it I'd rather see it get blocked than you deferring to somebody else that hasn't scored a Premier League goal so So that's my only issue I'd have for his performance, really, because he's still the one that we rely on far too much and we overburden far too much.

1:00:45And the issue with us is maybe systemic,

1:00:49Elliot:how the manager sets us up. We have to say it, right? We have to say it. Systemically, the way we were set up is not platforming our attackers. It's platforming almost everybody else. Yeah. I mean, do you really think that our attackers are so poor that they can't muster more than three Premier League non-penalty goals? Because that's where they're at. That's what we've got. We've got none from Nani. We've got three from Saka. I mean, we've got three from Jokeres, one from Jesus. Leo Troussard's our leading goal scorer, but hasn't scored in ages. Like, for non-penalty goals in Premier League. Yeah, I think it's fair.

1:01:28And I do think he's lost sight of some partnerships, too, to your point, Clive. You start Jesus. You know what you do when you start Jesus? start Gabriel Martinelli that's a partnership that has historically been tremendous and they've always looked good together you start one who comes to the ball and drifts left and you start the other who can get him behind and cause difficulties You know, it's time for some partnerships to redevelop on the pitch as well. You know, if you're going to have Jokras out there, have Odegaard. The thesis, at least, is that Odegaard has that ball in behind to Jokras.

1:02:00You know, now they might not give you the space to play it. I get it. I do think we're also running into the fact that at some point, this idea that you can play three in possession, you know, regain and retain ball-winning midfielders, and that platforms your attack is brushing up against reality a bit. You know, Manchester City are not great. And Manchester City made an interesting Faustian bargain, by the way. You could see how it goes wrong either way, because what did they do? They lost Kevin De Bruyne. They've essentially lost Rodri. They lost Kyle Walker. They're trying to redevelop themselves.

1:02:32What did they do? Cherokee and Reiners. Cherokee and Reiners can't win the ball in the Premier League. Cherokee and Reiners can't win in transition. And so City still get transitioned on. But you know what they can do? They can get into pockets of space. They can move the ball forward. I mean, Cherokee's final ball, sensational. So they went one direction, we've gone the other. I'm not saying City got it right. I'm just saying you have to live with the choices you make. Because we've got Declan Rice playing eight. And Martin Odegaard playing eight. And Martin Odegaard, when he was 15 goals and eight assists, or 10 goals and 10 assists, okay.

1:03:07But at the moment, for one reason or another, he's more of a middle third player than a final third player. And I do feel that we lack a final third presence in midfield. someone like an Ebrecha, and I'm not going to sit here and not admit, Eze has been basically crap recently. But I also don't think, you know, there's certain players you can bring on and say, help us win the game late, like a Martinelli out on the left. I don't think you can bring in mercurial tens into midfield in a rescue mission. I don't know that I think that that's necessarily going to work because that takes time to develop structurally.

1:03:42But anyway, the front three is not delivering and Tim when we get to the substitutions this is why I think Mikel is in the washing machine a bit too with his partnerships and his teams because fundamentally whether you think Nani is better than Martinelli or as I should play left or any of that the decision to bring Nani on and move Saka to the left is just baffling to me it just is and it speaks to hoping to find the solution rather than knowing the solution that's what it says to me because it says first of all to anyone who thought oh we bought nani maduike to be left wing you know that that's out the window now he was bought to be saka's backup because here was a chance for him to go play left wing and he didn't sack a move for him so to me this spoke to a not knowing the solution but hoping to find the solution i realize that is the dimmest view of it because mikhail i think has every possible combination thought through in his mind with his group but that was really strange to me.

1:04:41So what do you think of those subs, and in particular that decision to move Saka left and play Nani right? Yeah, I found that completely baffling, because I've kind of wanted to see Maduake on the left a little bit in the last few weeks. Not because I'm absolutely convinced it will work, but again - Change the dynamic, get to the byline, right? Yeah, exactly. And we were kind of told that was part of it. Otherwise, a bit like we said about the Ezra signing last week, Like if he doesn't play on the left, the signing doesn't make sense to me. Like, why are we spending 50 million pounds on like Saka's backup?

1:05:14I realized like we're trying to look after Saka more. That's absolutely fine. But I really didn't get that. When Madueke was coming on, I was thinking, okay, Madueke to the left. You know, you want Saka surely cutting in, cutting in, shooting, getting to the corner of that penalty area and putting those crosses in. And I don't know if it was related to the fact that Timber was at left back, maybe. And I didn't think that was a good decision either, to be honest. It did seem a bit strange to me as well, to your point about partnerships. Ben White comes on, Erdegaard comes off, we put Saka on the left.

1:05:48So probably our most defining partnership trio we have, we completely break it up at a time where we probably could have used it, to be honest. and we were struggling to break United down to me. Yep, bring Mourinho on because he's got aerial presence. We're probably going to have to spam some crosses here. So let's get a guy who's good at arriving and getting on the end of them. And it didn't make any sense to me. It's the first time in a while that I've kind of looked at a game and thought the manager's kind of lost the plot here a little bit. I've said many times before, because I can see Arteta, He's right in my eyeline from where I sit.

1:06:31And I've said before, I've seen loads of times, like someone misplaces the ball or something, subs over here. Now, now, now, you're coming on right, right now. So I think he does make emotional substitutions. And I don't mind that necessarily, but it's like when it's four at once and your fifth is we're going to move Saka to the left and put Madueke on the right. And like to me, Madueke, he's the guy you move. to me I don't think he moved Saka like is Maduweke gonna cut in and shoot I don't think he is like he never scores really I mean maybe you know maybe that's a disservice he did it didn't he in the Champions League a few weeks ago but we don't see it often Saka had just done it as well like where he nearly caught the goalkeeper out and I just feel like we kind of I know Saka hasn't been playing to his absolute tip-top best recently.

1:07:25But I feel like we kind of took one of our most likely avenues to a goal and we just put him somewhere he hasn't played for years. So I didn't get it at all, no. Yeah, and it's funny too because managers with their comments will sometimes tell you who they're frustrated with. He's always been willing to tell you when he's frustrated with a Martinelli miss. He made a comment that I thought was a little bit pointed with Nani Meduake. Okay, and if you missed it, because I think it's kind of interesting. He says, yeah, this is interesting. After that, in the second half, they had two brilliant goals, some individual quality, blah, blah, blah, in big games, blah, blah, blah.

1:08:05Okay, score the second goal, and you could feel that everything changed, and the game was there to go win it. In the next action, Nani is 1v1 in the six-yard box. We don't get anything out of that. It goes to a goal kick. They close structure, one pass, win the duel, and Kunia puts it in the perfect angle to lose all the momentum, all the good energy to build up and go and win the game for them. So very, very disappointing, obviously. In the same post-match comments, by the way, he called back to the Forest game, and he says, Forest, we go to Forest, and you look back, we can see nothing, and the five big chances that we didn't score.

1:08:39So I think just a little needle towards the Nani moment there, and Clive, I'm going to bring in on that, But Tim is struggling with a pretty bad cough. We're going to let Tim go because the cough is disrupting him, causing him some problems. So Tim, feel better. Thanks for hanging in there. And we will talk to you on the next one. Okay. Cheers. And apologies to everyone who's watching on YouTube. You can probably see me. Thankfully, I've been using the mute button, but I've needed it. Effectively, too. Remembering to come off mute. Note to all of us professionals who don't. All right, Tim. Thank you.

1:09:11Yeah, Clive, what do you make of that? The comments aren't that pointed. I don't want to make a mountain out of molehill by any means because I don't think he ever means to stick the boot in on his players. In fact, to be fair to Mikel, just so that we're being balanced here, he also said, very, very disappointed, obviously, but it's a moment, especially after losing, and the joy and everything that those players are giving us, and me in particular, to take responsibility myself and be very close to them because it's exactly what they deserve. On multiple occasions post-match, he said, for seven months they've been doing it.

1:09:43They deserve our support and our love. So I don't want to make it sound like he's just kicking players. He's not doing that. But your thoughts on the subs, the move of Nani to the left, and maybe even those comments? I mean, let's try to move a sack on the left, sorry.

1:09:54Elliot:Yeah, I wouldn't have moved sack. I'd never move him, right? He's one of the best right-wingers in the world. Don't move him. We've got to stop this. And Madweke, I want to see him on the left more. My starting left would have been Martinelli. You know, center forward, I would have gone Jokeres because I just think we can find him. and Ansaka would have been my right-handed choice. I would have started Odegaard. The rest of the team would be exactly the same. In fact, I was happy Hingapi was starting because he's more of a wide centre-back. I presumed that Timber would have pushed on because he's been pushing on a lot, which means he ended up with a three and I think Hingapi is really good as an outside three and we go from there.

1:10:34Elliot:So Hingapi found himself high up putting crosses, etc. So I think we got that wrong in it. and I think we need to explore that a little bit more so I saw some preview videos and they were talking about the potential of Manoway KP on the left and I really liked the idea of it and him starting there and I wondered if that was going to actually happen for me you had to attack those fullbacks you had to change you had to force those midfielders to come back to protect what they had to protect and the only time they came back was in the first 30 minutes as soon as we ran out of puff off the ball then they got growing confidence and grew in stature, and that's when it became a contest, shall we say, that they controlled without winning any other stats, but we felt they had a level of control about their performance.

1:11:21Elliot:And for me, the key thing was our lack of energy, jaw winning, and disjointed attacking cohesion, which always gave them a hope they could get back in, because we didn't look as certain about where we were going on the pitch. I'll say it again, we didn't have enough simplistic patterns. We didn't have enough reference points in the team to which to rely on. And hence he made changes which gave us some structure, he felt, in offensive areas. But maybe the game was already a little bit broken up by then and it all looked a little bit mishmashed. But I think our lessons were learned. And I had this feeling that we needed this kick in the arse.

1:12:03Elliot:We needed this kick. sometimes pressure brings clarity tim spoke about the fact of injuries the women's team brought clarity i think now this whole period in january in four competitions four away games and the exhausting trips that they've had to do it's brought clarity now about what's working and what's not working we've seen a lot of the squad everyone's coming back to fitness we're getting clarity now about what the next steps are and i think we needed this and i think and no one wants to see us lose. But if you react appropriately, it could be a moment we remember. And I think we want to see some decisions now that need to be made about the relationships and who's going to play in the key moments and what we expect of them in the key areas of the pitch.

1:12:51Elliot:This is what people want to see. But I thought earlier, Arteta's comments about the players and being close to them, That tells me even more this was a game of psychology and mentality, that he needs to put his arm around them. It's telling you, he's telling you, isn't he? And it comes back to us as supporters. We're more terrified than the players. At some point, there needs to be an inflection point where we're all learning how to win. I include the supporters in this. We're all learning how to win. At the moment, I think we're all getting it a little bit wrong. Myself included, we're all getting it a little bit wrong.

1:13:29Elliot:And we just got to calm down a little bit. Not every game is the same, but I do like what you say about looking at games in clusters, looking at games in runs. And my reaction to this game is informed by my feeling about the run we're on in the league right now. I really believe, Villa game aside, we have largely been mediocre in the league since Darby Day. And I think it's after that day that we changed up a lot of partnerships. Mikel Marino had been starting at Stryker, as I'd been in midfield, we had something that was working for us. And I don't want to sit in here and pretend that Marino was banging in the goals and Ezzo was looking amazing.

1:14:07My point is that those guys are better than the other guys. But we've been in the washing machine a bit since then. We've chucked goals in. There are some interesting data points here. And by the way, before you tell me United were any good, I want to be clear about why I think the attack is where to focus on. They scored two goals in the second half. The cumulative XG from those two goals is.08. They're Galazos, both of them. Okay? They're both Galazos. To be clear, they had four touches in our box in the second half. Four. Okay? This is a case of Arsenal not getting their foot on the ball in the dangerous areas and hurting them.

1:14:41One thing that really stands out to me, first of all, they had 51 passes in the final third in the second half. We had 104. Right? So dominant in the boxes, dominant in the final third. But what's interesting about United, in a second half where they had 44 % possession, something like that, They only made 17 passes in their defensive third to our 55. They weren't trying to play around the back. And so our out-of-possession intensity, our out-of-possession shape, they said, to hell with that. We're not going to play there. I sometimes think we are willing to play in the areas we shouldn't be playing too much.

1:15:15And Clive, you've said that. And we have to find a way to get the ball up the pitch into the dangerous areas to the players who can cause the most damage and then obviously convert that into goals. They got goals here from situations that you don't normally expect to concede. I have to ask you about this, even though I don't think it's worth a huge talking point because I'm not going to sit here and say we played well, but against Forrest, Olaena handles the ball and they don't give it to us. It would have been a get-out-of-jail-free card, but we should have gotten it. In this game, I remember Kai Havertz, we had a goal chalked off.

1:15:46I think it was against Liverpool, was it? Because Kai Havertz supposedly handled the ball or touched the ball with his hand before. And I don't even know that we ever saw a conclusion if he touched it. Dorgou's strike is brilliant and I don't think he uses his arm but it touches his arm before he kicks it and all I've ever heard is if it touches your arm before you kick the ball it's not a goal. So I get it. It would have been harsh on United but isn't that the letter of the law or do I have it wrong?

1:16:12Elliot:You probably have it right. I think he semi-controls it. I think he's happy for his arm to be there because it makes him bigger and he can get that ball settled down and he lashes it in top corner. I'm a football man first and foremost, and if that goal had been disallowed, it would have been quite disappointing for the football watchers, not for Arsenal people. I didn't sense a handball when I was watching it live. You know, and I sometimes think of these incidents. Letter of the law, Clive. Letter of the law. Yeah, I know. The BAR is just ruining goals that are goals, mate, for toenails and things like that.

1:16:44Elliot:You know, we got it. All right, so can I ask you a different one? Mm-hmm. Maguire going down. Now, this is one where I think the law is on their side. And as I understand it, this is the law. If the ball, the law is it's interpreted. If the ball hits an arm being used to support your body on the ground, it cannot be handball. The problem with it in this instance is he is not yet on the ground. He is going to the ground. So thoughts on this one? Natural movement. He's going to the ground. He put his arm down. Remember Odegaard had one at Liverpool. Remember a couple of years ago? I thought that one was a handball.

1:17:18Elliot:Quite similar. They called it basketball. That was more of a handball than this one. The handball, which was a handball, was the Forrest one. You know, because we know that he was trying to stop that ball going out and he used his arm to cradle the ball. And that was it. And that was a handball. And that could have been three points. But, you know, Martinelli, do your job. It doesn't really matter, right? So, yeah, I'm not going to focus on those things. I think for us, we walked into a team feeling themselves. And I've seen them come to Arsenal in the FA Cup recently and do the similar type feeling you had.

1:17:56Elliot:Sometimes you meet a team at the wrong moment. City met them at the wrong moment. We met them at the wrong moment. That's it. The game I focus on is Forest. That's the one that annoys me the most. Manchester United, they played some really good stuff, Elliot. it may not be good from a dominant point of view but some of their movements and combination play was really good you have to say it Dorgue may not score that goal ever again like Danny Rose for example a few years ago but he did it on the several years ago yeah and Kuna scored a beautiful goal that's in his locker you know and he has not been convincing people so he's been on the bench a couple of games he's come on and he delivered at the moment and that was a beautiful goal so we've got to take it we got to take it we're getting memes we're getting stick we're and this is what it will be like if we don't win this it times a thousand you know so today is a tough day but i'm i think we i think we need this day to remind the players mate this isn't an up escalator all the way we've got to do it we've got to make this happen just because a supercomputer tells you you're going to win it you still want to go and do it and we've got a home game with 60 000 people desperate to win.

1:19:11Elliot:And now I have to sit there and watch Sky TV saying how everyone booed at the end of the game when it was like a grumbly boo rather than a boo to try to break the club apart. You know, it's just, this is where we are. We are fun today. We have to take it. It's our third loss in all competitions. We have to take it and hopefully react appropriately. Do you want to weigh in on the atmosphere issue at all? I mean, I hate policing stadium atmosphere because I think people are totally unrealistic about how things work. I think people express their natural human emotions in a sports stadium. And there's a symbiotic feedback loop between the players on the pitch and the fans in the stands.

1:19:54I think when you, for example, I've been at the Emirates quite a bit now. I've had the privilege. When there's sustained pressure on the opposition, the fans find it easier to get up. when it's a bit turgid, when Ben White's taking ages over a throw-in, when the ball's going between center backs and we desperately need a goal, there are groans. Not because people don't know how to support their team, but because people are human beings. Would it be better if we got back to the 22, 23, or whatever it was, 21, 22 season, where it was post-COVID, and everyone was just happy to be in a football ground, and we were surprisingly challenged for a title?

1:20:26Of course it would, but it's three seasons in second place, and just like the players feel, the pressure the fans do too. So I find it hard to be a scold about how people react to things as human beings. But do you think the fans in the ground need to have a word with themselves and find a way to get behind the team more, even if that's not what they're feeling in the moment?

1:20:47Elliot:I think pre-game, Arteta was speaking a lot about indeeding the fans. I think he sensed it's going to be a difficult day. And I think his reaction pre-game and post-game about the players, I think he could see that people were on the edge of performance, shall we say. But we weren't saying after Milan, but maybe he could see something in training, etc. And I can only say, go by my own experiences and where I sit and the people that I talk to, people that I see in the 12 pins, everybody's feeling tense. Everyone's feeling it. And that's it. if that's extrapolated across the ground it's going to be the same we're all the same we've got the same worries we all sort of know we're the best team which puts even more pressure on us if City were good I think we'd be really happy we can say oh we've got an excuse if we don't win because they're brilliant you know look at them De Bruyne and all the rest of it okay we haven't won but we are playing against a nation state it's okay you know so the pressure's been ramped up you know articles coming out saying we're the best team in Europe best team in Europa and so now you think a lot more about what you can lose rather than what you can win.

1:21:56Elliot:And I think that's permeating across the team. Yep. And I don't blame anyone for feeling this way because I feel this way. I'm struggling to sleep on occasions. I feel this way. But then one thing I always know about football, mate, is there's always another game. And opinions change. The feeling change. You go into a good moment all of a sudden. I hate January because that damn League Cup semifinal is – I hate it. I hate the fact it's there. I hate the fact that the Champions League has now got two extra games. Speak my language. Well, that's three extra games that we don't need. You can set up differently for them, just saying.

1:22:36Elliot:But we did. We've made changes for them. We're never going to agree on rotation. We have made so many changes. You know, ten changes in one game, seven changes in another game. We can't say we're not rotating. him but we don't win oh we should have rotated that guy we should have substituted that guy we could have moved that guy this is why i don't want to get hung up about that i want to get hung up about the balance of the team and what we are trying to achieve and how we manage moments of psychological stress that we are gonna face down the road this is only just started mate this is january you know so there isn't good article out there i'm gonna say this without from ollie holt and he's basically give us all a bit of a slap to say guys you're okay saka gabriel and all these major people they're gonna they're gonna do their stuff and maybe maybe in my job as a supporter is to remember these players how good they are and don't get too worried you know and maybe find a way to encourage them because we all want the same things of course we can all see a couple of them are struggling but they're gonna come back i'm convinced of it data analysis can lead you down bad roads in football sometimes because it's not a sport that is cleanly defined by data this is another game we won on xg i don't use that to say that we were the better team but i do think if you want to have optimism one area of optimism is you can just look at and say First of all, we're overperforming our XG slightly, but by the lowest margin we ever have under Mikel, basically.

1:24:14On an XG allowed standpoint, we're now underperforming XG allowed. We have the best expected goals allowed in the league, and we've conceded more than expected. And you can see that with your eyes. You don't need the data to tell you. Goals are flying in.

1:24:30My belief is that'll balance a bit. That on another day, that Dorgue goal flies into Rose Ed, Cunha's shot is wide of the target. Ultimately, Mikel Marino gets us a goal back from a corner and the pressure's on them. And two seconds later, to Mikel's point, Nani runs it out for a goal kick. They kick it up the pitch. Declan Rice goes fishing and Cunha scores from 23 yards out, 22 yards out, brilliantly. But it's a 1-in-15, 1-in-20 chance that he puts away. Okay? Some days that happens. I think back to a Chelsea game where Mudrick mishit a cross and it went in. Those things happen. On another day that Cunha goal doesn't go in and maybe we get a draw or maybe the pressure we bring to bear at the end of the game they collapse and we get a historic win.

1:25:18It just hasn't gone for us that way and look, the points, you don't get the points because of that but if you want the bull case, the optimist case is that these things will come back to us. That as we're seeing in Europe we're a very good team. As we're seeing in the domestic cups we're a very good team. As we've seen over this season we are still the best team in the league over the course of the season so far by four points so nothing is lost and everything is there to gain and a half but the team has to believe that and i do think michael has to figure out how to get us more goals because here's where league football will mess with your head if manchester city were on a 90 point pace right now just follow me on this please please we would already be out of the title race we would be already out of the title race if they were on a 90-point pace.

1:26:08But they're not. We are currently on an 82, 82.6. So if you want to be an optimist, 83-point pace. 82, 83-point pace. In my estimation, Clive, that is below what this team should accomplish. And so I think it is fair, even though we are four points clear and at the top of the Champions League and in the semifinal of the League Cup and still in the FA Cup, I think it is fair to say right now, as of this moment, I feel this team is performing less than its capacity, its ceiling in the Premier League. Is that fair? When you look at this team being on an 82-point pace right now, and by the way, 82 points might win this title, and no one takes that away, and there's no asterisks, okay?

1:26:46But I think my disappointment comes from my belief that this is a team about to go on a multi-year generational run that has the ability to be a 92-point team, like the Klopp Liverpool teams, like Pep and his Pomp, that this is a team that has the ability to conquer everything. That's how good it is. And I don't think at least in the league, because in Europe it does look that good, I don't think in the league we look like that. So my expectation or bumping up against my reality. Am I asking too much? Do we need to recalibrate and forget the 92-point title seasons and recalibrate to 82-point title seasons?

1:27:23And maybe the team needs to do that too so that they stop thinking any drop point means we can't be champions anymore and play with a little less anxiety around that.

1:27:33Elliot:Yeah, the last bit was really good there about anxiety. I think, the way I look at it, it sounds boring, right? But I don't think the 90-odd points is where the league is anymore. We've got smart out-possession coaching, got the best coaches in the world, got the best facilities in the world in the league. We've got a lot of good sports science. We're producing a lot of good performances. Look what Fulham are doing. And look what Sunderland have done this season. Really good sides. you know that's where we it's different in the league and I think the best result that we can was probably Aston Villa's result apart from A9 Aston Villa in Europe went away to Newcastle beat them too I haven't seen a performance but Aston Villa are as much of a threat as City look at their average age City are far more in transition Tim said that's a note last week and he's absolutely right saying that a lot of City's team haven't won before there's a lot of new players in that team they haven't led a title run shall we say good players obviously but so that's the real okay not won many titles but look at our average age they're experienced professionals they can go and turn up and do that in Newcastle three days after playing in Europe so it's a challenging season by which we are the best equipped for we have everything and the last three years you know my appraisal of it first year big surprise second year took too long to get into our shape we were very very close but it's a much better City team the third day let's not pretend that second place was anything other than that's where we should be because we're the second best team because the best team won the league they deserve to so though we have a collective of three second places there was only one we was really challenging properly for the full length get to the last day and now here we are this season and we all know we're the best team the league knows we're the best team so now this is real this is real and we have to embrace it and see it as a significant opportunity and not something to fear you know just from you know i think a lot of the things i want to say is around fear but the thing i fear the most it's my biggest fear my biggest fear is that last game that last home game of the season when the players do that lap of appreciation and there's no one in the seats that is my biggest fear and so this needs to happen this year because it's the right time and we are the best team.

1:30:07Elliot:So we need to go and do it. Embrace the opportunity and go and take it. I think one thing that has changed is three seasons ago, no one expected us to be title contenders at all. It was a joyous surprise. Two seasons ago, we expected to be title contenders and we went to our second highest point total ever. And I think we're the best team in the league and we were a little unlucky against a city team that got over 90 points. And if you get over 90 points, you just tip your cap. Last season, injuries and pgml stuff everybody understood it we made it to the semi-final of the champions league in a season where we had nope we ran out of players okay this season i think is the first time i genuinely feel we should win the title we're in a position to win the title there is no excellent team chasing us and failure to win the title is the first time i think i'd be prepared to call it failure i have been very clear that i have loved and appreciated what we've accomplished the last three seasons.

1:30:58This season, I don't think I can take that kind of view from the position we've been in with the squad we have with the teams that are chasing us. Now, just so we're clear, we might actually just go on and win the title. And that's fine. But I think this is a season where we, I hate to say have to do it, because if City somehow get on a run and get to 92 points and we get to 89, anything can happen from here. But I don't see that happening.

1:31:23Elliot:You know, I think we're all wrecked with fear at the moment. disappointment, you can blame who you want to blame. I'm not in that blaming mode at the moment. I'm more in opportunity mode at the moment. And if I just turn the opportunity around and say, look, guys, if we start to play our game properly and we get our balance right and we get our selections right and we impose ourselves that we can do very, very quickly, a goal would help, and suddenly people are bouncing around the pitch again very, very quickly, this team has an opportunity to win the league but also win the champions league and do something that no ever arsehole team has ever done we're favorites to do both of those things in our history so right now we're we're tense but let's get our heads up and look at what we could do what we could achieve and it's so close and maybe the only thing stopping us is our own internal fears and we need to release the fear a little bit and i think it's a collective thing people can blame the manager they can blame this player they can blame that player i don't care i watch the games mate i watch them and we do everything collectively when we're hot we do it collectively when we're cold they all look cold when we're nervous they all look nervous You can blame who you want.

1:32:44Elliot:Yeah, but that's who we are. So for me, I would like to say to everyone who's listening to this in the club, please remind them of the opportunity they have to be generational players in our history. Generational and do something that's never been done before. It's so clear because you watch them in Europe, they look excited to do what they can do. And in the Premier League, they look nervous to lose what they might lose. and just be excited for what you can go achieve because what's interesting about this season, what makes it so hard, and we'll end here, this season in the league has had two fun games, the Derby at home and Villa at home.

1:33:26What's been a hallmark of this Mikel Arteta team that I've repeatedly praised is, even when we haven't gone on and won it, they've given us such fun moments. We smashed City. We smashed Chelsea. We beat Liverpool. We beat United home and away. We beat Spurs home and away. We had these big, fun moments. This season, we didn't beat City at home. We didn't beat Liverpool at home. We lost to Liverpool away. We lost to Villa away. We didn't beat Chelsea, who were down to 10 men. We lost to United at home. It hasn't been as fun as a title run feels like it should because some of the big moments haven't been there like they have been in past seasons.

1:34:06So I get that that adds to a bit of the frustration, but to your point, it's all still there for us. This should be an inflection point, and let's hope that it is. It is great that we have midweek off. Functionally, we have midweek off because I think on seven days rest, we're a different proposition. So I think we need to rest everybody. Mikel, if you listen, I know it's not in your DNA. Play the kids against Kyra Dalmati. It genuinely is a non-starter game. There aren't no kids anymore. genuinely all right there are no kids by the way thanks ethan could you have picked maybe one week later to score your galazo for marseille so that we we didn't have to look at what you can do but kudos to him by the way happy for him fun to watch marseille with him um ultimately my point is get the rest get the recovery have the curry as clive said and go to leads and put this in the rearview mirror um that's that's really all there is there's the next game you can you can only win the game in front of you we have to stop playing like we're trying to win the title just try to win the game in front of you and i think we we are the better team in every game we play so we should do that is my my opinion uh i think we can leave it there and we'll try to get a scouting video in for you as i said because i think we need a palate cleanser from this now at this point you can only go over the same issues so many times um but then we'll have maybe an interesting and fun game to analyze midweek that'll just be a nice break from the break from the intensity of the league which i think we could all use so clive thanks very much thank you very much yeah if you want to join us for the scouting video.

1:35:34There's a new code, by the way. It's Saliba50. They forced me to change it every once in a while. So all caps, Saliba50 for the half off on the Patreon. If you want to join there, we'd love to have you. Thanks for everything, everybody. We do love you. As we sift through, we haven't had to do this kind of sift through the wreckage, kind of reckoning stuff much. Not much at all over the last three years, but a little bit of it today. So thanks for putting up with us. My name's Elliot Smith. We love you. And we will talk to you after Arsenal 10, kind of right now.

1:36:25I'm Kai Urieff. And I'm Jasmine Enberg. We're the founders of Scalable, where we take you beyond the headlines and help you make sense of it all.

1:36:32Elliot:Every Thursday, we break down the biggest stories affecting the business of creators, brands, platforms, and the dollars behind them. If you're a marketer, founder, creator, or investor, you need to understand what it means for your business and where this industry is going next. Subscribe to the Scalable Podcast and our newsletter at scalablepod.com.