Dominant Arsenal Send Champions League Message

38:33And the set piece goals, I think, belie the extremely attacking orientation of Arsenal in terms of our territory and how we play. And there is a lack of efficiency maybe in our attacking play that I think will continue to improve and people will stop focusing on the set pieces. But so do you think in a way, because we're so good at set pieces, people have just created a narrative around them that is very much apart from what we actually see watching Arsenal every game in terms of our attacking impetus.

39:08Elliot:Yeah, I mean, people are going to go where they're going to go. And at the moment, we're ruining football because we're doing this and that's the cost we have to bear. Until Liverpool ruined it on Wednesday. Yeah, yeah. Until we do something like we did with Miles and Martijn, and suddenly that may filter a little bit or dilute a little bit, sorry. Yeah, I look. We're used to watching this team. We've squeezed teams for a couple of years now. You know, mate, centre-back 15 yards into the opposition's half. I mean, sometimes 10 yards outside the penalty area. I mean, what's going on? That wasn't the game I grew up with, you know, but it is now.

39:45Elliot:They're so athletic. They cover the spaces and they're brave to go one-on-one at the back there and really dominate people and create waves of attack, which is the only way to break down these super-physical, super-fit teams. You've got to get waves of attack. and if they choose just to defend near their goal and it goes out for a corner then we've got something else for them you know so in the end football will develop based on what what your strengths are and maybe we're going to come out it may start the weekend who knows people are going to try to overpress us again they're thinking we're going to try and play in their half try and run across the ring and punch me in the mouth and see what they do then team's point about going one nil down is is on my mind mate big time what we're gonna do you know so so yeah i think it will develop again and they may go high pressure when they do what we're gonna do we're gonna we've got a great goalkeeper who could be the plus one then we can clip it into people who we keep high and they have a decision to make do we over aggressively press or do we go from there so i at this moment in time we seem to have all the solutions right but a week or so ago Manchester United beat Liverpool by going direct from their goalkeeper a million times and this time last year none of us saw that coming you know none of us saw them crumbling on the direct play but someone found a solution which has unsettled them and made their centre-back actually run about a bit which he doesn't want to do and suddenly they don't look as stable they take two fullbacks out which don't give them stability and suddenly they don't look as stable they have alexis mccalligan sets mccalligan who doesn't want to run and suddenly they don't look as stable so we have the solutions at the moment until somebody finds something else and i think the most important thing to hold into our thoughts and our minds is our adaption to when somebody does find a weakness in us and how we can enforce a game to our to our will which i think we have the capability of doing particularly we've got Martin, another guy on the pitch and other players are attacking natures that want to dominate the ball and dominate where the game is played.

41:49Elliot:And so, yeah, this is where we're heading, mate. And this is the modern game. It's about diversity of attack solutions. That's where we are. I had to laugh too because Arna Slott, when asked why they had success against Frankfurt, he's like, oh, well, they tried to play the ball on the ground. So our press worked. They didn't go over our press, which we haven't been good at. And it's like, maybe don't say the quiet part out loud, aren't it but cool i thought that was a really good point i have to say that i thought he he wasn't taking the praise he said we were able to do this because of how the opposition played and this is something we need to think about when we're watching the game you know little point they're not back yet because when we come to the weekend they're not they're not going to play like frankfurt so i mean i mean maybe we've seen that in europe this week where people are not as prepared for teams as they could be as they are in the premier league where we know each other intimately and that's where the goal is going in despite despite the financial disparity within the game as well yeah i i want to talk yokres obviously we got to get on that uh man of the match victor yokres um i want to talk about the miles and martinelli goal absolute stunner great moment great moment for both of those players um both who could use it i think by the way so that's worth talking about maybe a little bit of the end game ethan came on was good to see him i thought he looked bright we got a preview palace so a lot still to go here let's tell you about brands before you yell at me to say, you forgot the break.

43:13I didn't forget. We're doing them now. And then, then we'll get to the meat of the conversation just a scant 42 or 45 minutes or so into the podcast. Hey, World Cup fans. If you want proper analysis, honest opinions, and plenty of laughs along the way, give the rest is football a listen. Gary Lineker is joined by Alan Shearer and Micah Richards throughout the tournament as they break down all the big games, the biggest moments, and everything happening on and off the pitch. They'll also be chatting with some brilliant guests along the way. Whether you've watched soccer your whole life or you're just getting into it, they'll help make sense of the drama, the tactics, the joy, and the heartbreak of the World Cup.

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44:52Okay, so now we can talk about the man who was awarded the Man in the Match award, he says repeating himself again uh tim victor go crash it's one of these things where it is the obvious responsibility of a striker to score goals to get praise that's just how it works but as analysts of the game we don't have to fall into that trap we don't have to just praise a player for scoring goals when we know that there's more to it than that that that creates the opportunity for the team to win the game. And you have come on this podcast and bravely said the goals are overrated. So you're the perfect man to discuss this.

45:36I believe that Victor Yoko Resch's relentlessness is what struck me from this game. More than the goals, which are, you know, a tap in with his special area. And, you know, essentially a heavily deflected shot. I think it's the relentlessness that stuck out to me. There's an optistat going around that Victor Jokeres has made the most off-the-ball runs of anyone in the Premier League, which I think is interesting. And in this game, from a sprint standpoint, only Gabriel Martinelli with 16 made more than Victor Jokeres' 13 sprints. And in terms of sprint distance, again, only Martinelli out-sprinted Jokeres in terms of sprint distance.

46:16So I think this performance is more about the intensity of his play and the relentlessness of his play than the goals. but maybe you need the goals for the striker to feel the plaudits that he needs to carry on so where are you on that side of the debate yeah i think performance wise this was really no different to what we've seen the last few games we have seen clunky games from him don't don't get me wrong where you know the ball seems to come off his shin a little bit more than it should i do think that's kind of been refined the last few games and i have felt the last two to three games like yeah not not all like because he's not a subtle player and he's never going to be like you don't buy a 27 year old and expect to change him and um and i don't want to either because he has a lot of qualities we don't have and that's great um but yeah i've sensed like maybe a little bit of refinement um in in that respect not loads but really this just wasn't much difference to his other performances other than they went in for him this time and they're quite fortuitous when they happen he's been probably quite unfortunate before that but if you keep doing it if you keep getting in the positions then you know his next goal will probably just be a clean normal goal rather than just like having some unlucky misses and then a couple of I mean the the first one's fortunate obviously because the deflection and his celebration shows you that the second one isn't because he's there like it doesn't matter like didn't matter that it was very, very close range or it hit him.

47:47That happened to Trossard, didn't it, at Fulham? Yeah. Like the ball just came to him. He's going where he needs to go to score goals. And sometimes the ball comes to you and then you score goals. But obviously, I think you do know. People say people measure strikers by goals. I think a lot of strikers measure themselves that way as well. I'm sure it was on his mind. And you can probably see that by the way the players celebrated with him because they're with him every day. you know they understand that they understand he probably really really needed and wanted that and it you know almost reminded me a little bit of how you you know when Havertz first started those first couple of goals I'm not even just talking about the Bournemouth penalty but when he scored the winner at Brentford and you remember like he scored a late winner at Brentford which I think was his second Arsenal goal and Arteta went over to him and the whole team were like pushing him towards the away fans type thing that wouldn't happen now if Havertz scored a late winner because kind of don't need it to happen I think Havertz is a very accepted part of the group but you know you did get the sense the other players were you know puffing him up a little bit and if they spend every day with him that's probably because they they felt he needed that and he was measuring himself that way but this is one of the one or maybe the only like good thing about it kind of just being him up front at the moment if we had Havertz available as well look at what's happening at Liverpool with Izak and Eketike they're trying to fit both of them in and actually neither of them are really doing it at the moment when Izak wasn't there Eketike was doing it you know because he was playing every minute of every game so perhaps if Havertz was evaded and don't get me wrong I'd rather have had Havertz than not but if Havertz had been available maybe Jokeres would have been coming in and out of the team whereas you know you're going to start he knows he's starting again on Sunday so it's just like keep going just keep doing what you're doing and and Clive you was you used the word about Havertz a couple of years ago like almost over praising him and I feel like that's been happening with Jokeres again like Arteta's comments off the Newcastle where he was and don't get me wrong he wasn't lying about anything but it was so effusive like I went and gave him a big hug I told him he wouldn't get decisions I told him go and be relentless.

50:00And I think what we're seeing is I've said it before and I've caught some flack for saying it I don't think he's the guy we want for every minute of every game. I don't think that about Havertz up front either. It's just a case of what is the weight and balance between those two players. But I think Jokeres has a lot of qualities we don't have elsewhere in our attack that are really, really useful to us. They will be more useful on some day than they are others. but the last few games they've been very very useful to us

50:31Elliot:yeah i think this is really good stuff mate as always tim i think it's different between joker is and havers when remember havers was coming in we were trying to formulate in our minds what he was was he an eight or was he a nine so my mind was walked by that community shield when i saw him play nine brilliant performance and the first time he got near city so I was like, I'm sold. He's a nine. But then I got told him, but he can play in midfield. So let me listen to everybody. He can play in midfield. We weren't sure. Then eventually he got to the nine and became a nine. And now we've got, we understand that player a bit more.

51:08Elliot:With Jokeres, he's a nine. There's nothing else. He won't be playing wide or deeper. But what he's, where the difference between Jokeres is, despite his roughness on occasions around the edges, he's actually making us better. as a team. So when Havertz came in, he didn't make us better. He tactically was a solution guy. We could go long to him. He could drop in and be an extra midfielder. So he almost like gave us a little bit of coverage about the gaps that we had tactically without really being any strong, defined player, one single shirt on his number. He just got us out of dodge. He would come back and defend in the box.

51:47Elliot:He would overload on the right-hand side. He would do anything that we need to do tactically. so I often said that Raya and Havertz yeah exactly you can do a lot with polyfilla I've discovered that over the last few weeks so Raya and Havertz my line is that they are the two most tactically important players because they gave us a plus one they gave us solutions up front of people Jokovic now mate this whole I don't think it's just down to him it's down to what we do in possession our directness etc what we do in our forward passing but he has made a significant difference to how we look as a team and where we run you know and as i'm preparing my head to talk about later about crystal palace he's playing and he's going to pin two center backs and they're not going to like it you know there's going to be spaces to run into what do they do what do we do etc and i think again we are he provides a traditional solution he's such a traditional nine that really has his number one skill is repeat sprint ability you know and his skill is not his skill his skill is mate will you just go away please can you go away and leave me alone because i'm happy standing here where i can see the whole game in front of me and he's saying no i'm running you down the sides mate and now our players are whiffing it down the sides first time we get up the pitch we're winning seconds and we're going from there he's his introduction along with a change of with a center mid introduction has transformed us a little bit going forward.

53:16Elliot:And it's not just that, because we could be tactically deep diving, et cetera. But yeah, I really like what he's done so far. It's changed my watching experience this season, for sure. And look, you got to get the goals eventually. I get it. But I do think that there's a big change here. If you think about Lacazette and Gabriel Jesus, and I don't want to knock either of them too much, because Lacazette had good seasons for us and Gabriel Jesus changed our lives briefly before the injury. But when we were frustrated with those players, what was our frustration? Hey, mate, it's great that you dropped into midfield to combine, but Saka's got the ball in the wing and you're still at the halfway line.

53:49Victor Yorchris is in the box. Victor Yorchris is driving to the near post. He's driving to the back post. He's pushing defenders back and he is sprinting. Again, he had the second most sprints in the game. He had the third most sprinting distance behind only Martinelli and Giuliano Simeone. He achieved the second top speed in the game, tied with Martinelli, 30.2 kilometers per hour. He is running. He is relentless and he's running all game. Lacazette, again, he could start games looking really bright, but the man would fade to the point where he stopped being a factor. And I think as much as he's playing Jokeres, he seems like he's getting fitter as games are wearing on.

54:26And that is a big credit to him. It reminds me of Declan Rice in a way. I thought Declan Rice kind of strolled through the first half of this game and was imperious in the second half. Declan gets better as everybody else is fading. Jokeres has a bit of that too. We saw it in Lisbon. He had nothing going on, nothing going on, nothing going on against Gabby and Saliba. Kibior came on and what does he do in the 90th minute? he runs him and cracks a shot off the post. And I think that that relentlessness is big. And Mikel has been quick to praise it, but I don't think it is hollow praise. I don't think it's fulsome.

54:55I think it's genuine. So a few things he said on Victor Yorke is back among the goals. I think he deserved it because everything that we were seeing in terms of what he was bringing to the team and how much he was helping the team in many areas, apart from scoring goals in the last few weeks, there was no debate about that. It was about keeping that belief in himself, that emotional state that he can enjoy and play freely. I think he's certainly done that today. Again, he was rewarded with two goals and the biggest smile on his face. Look at his teammates as well in the pictures and videos. They are so happy for him because he fully deserved it.

55:23And on the instant reaction, by the way, I made that point. I made the point that I loved seeing the way they wanted him to go really fully celebrate. On the work Yorges is putting in without scoring, Mikel said, quote, all of it, because he makes us much better as a team. I think we've become much more unpredictable. He's so physical. He opens up the spaces for everybody, the way he presses the ball, holds the ball. He's just phenomenal. And then there's icing on the cake. And the biggest thing that we're going to debate about him is goals. He has scored two very different ones today and hopefully he starts to get some momentum and a good run of goals.

55:51Look, he had three shots again today. If he keeps having three shots every 90, he's gonna score some goals. His running's gonna hurt teams. His pressing has improved from when he first arrived where we saw him maybe running straight at a keeper or straight to a position. He's curving his pressing runs now. He's just gotten more influential and better. I love the celebration. Obviously some hilarious pictures of him doing the Bain celebration. Gabby doing the Batman celebration and Martinelli just covering his eyes. It's like, see no evil, hear no evil, speak to evil monkeys. Just needed Trossard to do his celebration at the same time.

56:20You have it all covered, exactly, all the bases. And again, I do, Mikel referenced it and I referenced it in the IR. I love the togetherness. He was kind of half-hearted celebrating his goal and Gabby was like, uh-uh, you're going to go celebrate this thing fully. And he did and it was beautiful. So I think we can leave the Yoko Rish conversation there because we still have a lot to get to and we haven't even talked about the best goal of the game, Tim. And it's funny, Clive got into the locker room, the dressing room at halftime and spoke to Miles, which I think made a big difference. Because in his first half voice note, he said, mate, just do the things you're good at doing.

56:57You know, do more of the stuff you're good at. And the thing that Miles is good at is getting on the ball and carrying it forward. He is uniquely good at that. Sometimes in space, he gets caught wrong side of the man and has to hold. He picked up a couple fouls in the first half. He had that one time where Simeone kind of lost him in space in the diagonal. but the thing he can do on the ball is a superpower. And the way he drives through midfield is stunning. And I can't be the only one when Martinelli hit the sweetest, best possible top drawer finish imaginable, who had just the tiniest little bit of regret about the one against PSG.

57:30I couldn't have been the only one thinking that because this time he gets it wide enough, it cannons in off the post. It's a stunning goal. The two players Mikel drafts in from the bench to come in, come in, and they both participate in what is the best move of the game. Eye-catching from the fullback and the forward. Sensational moment. Yeah, it really is. And maybe this is reading too much into it, but maybe they're two players who are very suited to the Champions League. Martinelli, for sure. Martinelli, definitely. And I retweeted that tweet I had from a couple of months ago. It's like, just play the music at the stadium every time we start Martinelli.

58:09start him on Sunday and play the music before the game and he scores four against Palace and and it might be the same for Miles as well it might just be where there's a little bit more space and maybe slightly lower tolerance for having your ankles hacked off in Miles's case because that's really key yep good yeah because because I was going to say to him if there's anything about Miles is sometimes he'll try to buy a foul if he's under pressure and you're going to get more of them in the Champions League for sure yeah and and a lot of the time that's a really good thing to do by the way like if you're under pressure by a foul particularly in certain phases of the game I looked up some data because I wrote an article about Timber about a month ago and I had the impression that he got fouled quite a lot and it was reasonably right um looked at last season's stats something like you know close to two gets two fouls a game pretty close to it um Miles, 3.9 per game last year.

59:02Like, you know, that's four free kicks a game and it happens we're quite good at those. But yeah, maybe where you don't get your ankles clipped as much or maybe there is just a little bit more space to run through a midfield in the Champions League. And I love, by the way, the fact that Calafuri was ready to come on and it was just like, nah, sit back down, mate. This is taken care of, which to be fair, I don't think that's just about, wow, Miles did a madness. Let's keep him on. I also think that was maybe about 2-0 now. Let's not trouble Calafuri this week. And the other thing I kind of love about this game, Trossard doesn't come on either.

59:41Saturday, Fulham away. That's your game. You go and score the winner. Well done. But Tuesday night, you sit down, basically. And it works that way. Martinelli only got like a couple of minutes against Fulham. He was a time-wasting sub, basically, against Fulham. which is probably not exactly what he wanted in that moment. But Tuesday night under the lights, Champions League, Atleti, you go do your thing, you go and score the best goal of the game. And Arteta spoke about that at the beginning of the season as well, about players needing to understand that there are days where you might not even get on the bench or you might be on the bench and you might not get on.

1:00:15And it's not because you're a bad player, it's just that's how it's going to go sometimes. And by the way, you know, you're talking about the depth, the defence on the bench, white, mascara, hincapé, and Calafuri, that back four could easily have started this game and it could still have been 4-0, quite frankly. So a lot of depth there. I love the fact that, you know, Gabriel got a little bit of a bang. Again, 2-0, right? Okay, we're not going to keep you on for 90 minutes. We don't need to. We've got Mascara there. He's perfectly capable of coming on for the last 20. I loved all of that, but that goal was...

1:00:51You can tell when a team is flowing and when a team is confident, that's the type of goal that comes out from two guys who don't play every week and you know the the contribution from Martinelli and Trossard I know we talk about it a lot like I didn't write either of them out of the club totally but I still didn't think they'd be this big and I know some of it's because of that there's injuries there's no matter okay as is playing more central but like both of them are having a massive massive say in this season but from from Lewis Skelly that that's right that is like your superpower you know like califuri's done a lot of great stuff um and he can probably do a bit more than miles in that he's probably got one or two things to his bow but i don't think he'd have done that because that's a central midfielder um you know doing that that kind of turn and burst and like even if like an athletic player gone i'm taking the yellow card I'm tapping the ankle which they should have done in hindsight then we've got a free kick in a really good position and that and that creates threat and this is quite what you're talking about as well that and I think Paul talked about it in the last podcast that like constant pressure that oh my god Lewis Skelly's running through us but I don't want to take his ankle because then they're just going to get a free kick and then they're going to get a free kick and we're gonna have to deal with that and just like not having a second to relax and i think what that goal is so nice as well because like i'm loving the set piece stuff because i love that annoys people i really enjoy that it gets under people's skin that we're so good at it but it does feel like you know sometimes you need that kind of that flowy open play type goal and and and it did kind of feel like yeah we'll get you on a set piece but we'll also get you because our left back will go and dribble through three of you.

1:02:40And it does feel to me like there are definitely improvements still in our open play attacking. I think we're still yet to really click, like totally click there, but this is the type of goal that, you know, there's a big clicking sound when that one goes in. And you couldn't have a clearer, I think, example in two games of the difference between Califiori and Miles, because Miles doesn't run into the position that Calafiori takes up when Leo lays it off to him and Miles doesn't score that goal the way Calafiori scores it unfortunately it's offside but Calafiori doesn't make the carrying run that Miles makes two very different ways to impact the game both result in goals one that counts and one that doesn't Clive your thoughts on uh Miles and and Martinelli and what is in my book an absolutely stunning picture book goal yeah beautiful go on and that really did set the crowd off really massively the way that one went in and so i got the atmosphere going i think um

1:03:37Elliot:i had to think about miles not not letting the ball flow through him enough and in the last game he got fouled six times the last european game this game just a couple of times and that this game for me was a game where i felt he was a bit rusty on occasions and then he grew into the game and he started to do what he was really really good at martin ellie was always set to start this game and I think he's really taken to Europe really really well I think and our team's written about this in the past and it's something that's really become prevalent now because we've got so many players that can play the position but how Arsenal use the left back is totally unique you know and they're allowed to do unique things you know so Karefure is basically playing number 10 but not like Zinchenko played number 10 you see what I mean?

1:04:25Elliot:Because Zinchenko was a 10 dropped into left back Califuri was an inside-outside centre-back that can play left-back, that's now playing in midfield, and then popping up at centre-forward and popping up at left wing, popping up wherever you like. So I know, basically, the way we use that position, the way we're using our full-backs now, is so much more broad. And so, again, a year or so ago, we were all happy with it. You know, we were all happy with it. We did have a Zinchenko, and he was unique. He changed our worlds to allow us to have a 4v3 in their midfield. And then we worked out, his weaknesses right so now he's at knots forest on loan right so and then we had ben white charging up and down making the sixth attacker we thought well we're not gonna get any better than this why is he playing for England blah blah blah a long cunt's timber he can play inside outside back to goal he can carry he can dribble he can cross what where do you go this is the this is the incremental development of this team you know where we're looking at a 19 year old who's barely started a premier league game for us is playing for England and looks that good in the champions league yeah yeah we're probably not going to play at the weekend you know because Califiori can do left foot right foot he can defend the back post better against Mateto etc because he's six foot two he brings a physicality to the game Lil Paul are struggling with tiny fullbacks this is this is where we are this is where the game is there is no redundancy in any selection if you want to win at the top top level we can't carry a Sincenka anymore we just can't carry it just I mean really good player i really liked him but we've gone we've gone we went to miles and now we've gone and hink happy we've not seen him yet and he's just a bully out of a gun into a tackle i mean he's going to bring something else to the group you know so um the game's moving all the time and we seem to have got it right at the moment and we've not just got it right for this year got it right for next three or four yeah with the contract length and i think that's key but the game will move and I just want to see how that happens and how we move with it.

1:06:25Elliot:That's where my head is. Yeah and I think you know first of all Miles is 19 he's only just gone 19. It is important to keep that in perspective but I'm so glad he had that moment because I think Cal Fiore was getting ready to come on for Miles and instead he winds up staying on after that and he had that moment and Mikel really took the opportunity to praise him and I think this isn't just praising him because he deserves it because he clearly deserves it. I think Mikel understands Cal Fiore is going to start a lot of games and Capier is now probably going to start some games and it's only going to get tougher to find those moments to use miles.

1:06:59And so he wants to really encourage him in the chance he has to encourage him. And so, you know, he said on miles performance, if you look at what he's done from December last year to now at his age, at this level, it's incredible. But I said it before, he's been really focused, really humble and really good when that happens and you have to play after you are ready. And I thought he was really good today. When he was asked about squad depth, again, specifically, who'd he praise? The guys who maybe aren't going to find minutes to come by easily all the time. He says, quote, very good. I think Miles and Gabby were superb.

1:07:32The impact, the team, the results, they were ready from the beginning. The boys that come in again, and we use them in different ways. I think we need to try and keep them all involved. And even if they have a chance to play, and if they play at that level, it's a joy because it's going to elevate our daily training sessions. That will mean the standard will be higher and we will compete better. So I think he wants to send a message, right? He wants to praise the players that are on the fringes a bit when he gets the chance to. So they really feel celebrated and involved because to your point, Clive, they may not be involved at the weekend.

1:08:02Martinelli, I don't know. I mean, he's playing really, really, really well again. And he's taking his opportunities to find end product when the end product is there. he again he had the most sprints in this game the most sprint distance the you know joint second top speed sprint he was working hard he was doing the right things and you know we were very right sided in the first half but a lot of the play flowed through him in the second half and I thought he was really good so there's going to be some big decisions I just want to say one thing that I've been thinking about by the way when it comes to this set piece thing the thing that I think is so strange Cristiano Ronaldo standing over a free kick iconic stance right his broad stance before he strikes it straight into the wall.

1:08:43Lionel Messi curling one in. Thierry Henry's curled free kicks. We celebrate that skill. And yet, Gabriel Magalhães, the skill, the talent, the timing of the run, the power, the accuracy, the header, the Declan Rice delivery, the sack delivery, there is as much talent involved. There's a reason we stopped scoring from corners and started conceding from corners when Gabby went out last season. We should celebrate this as talent. You know, I mean, set pieces are seen as a coaching thing. Well, it wasn't a coaching thing when Gabby was out injured last season. It wasn't a coaching thing earlier this season when we were having Nani Meduake take wrong-footed corners as Clive referenced earlier, right?

1:09:17Out-swingers for the first. Declan coming over and taking out-swingers. So it is talent. And we celebrate that talent. I just think it's a thing that I don't totally understand why we don't. Final tiny little thing. Tim, any comment on the way we finish the game? I mean, we're getting a bit not lucky. We're creating our own luck. But in a season that doesn't go for you, This is a game away to Kairat Almaty on the other side of the planet on a Wednesday before coming back to play Palace, who have had the week off and are all rested and ready. And instead, this is a home game on a Tuesday that's wrapped up by the 60th minute.

1:09:52So we take off Zubamendi, right? We take off players. They get rest. And Palace play on a Thursday in a game that they don't have a big enough squad to rotate for. They have to be ready for. So I think that this has fallen well for us this season, some of how this is playing out. we did get a chance to see ethan we've not seen much of him this season but i thought he looked really bright so do you want to have just a quick word on the end stages of the game the ability to to get some players off and and any thoughts on the players who came on like nor guard mascara ethan anyone yeah we're starting to get nor guard involved now aren't we um because he was i mean i think he had a bit of an injury earlier in the season and we were struggling struggling i guess to find excuses to bring him on almost but i think we can see that he's going to be um quite predictably like a closer a bit like it's it's very direct for georginio isn't it it's exactly what we used to do with georginio you know bring him on last 10 minutes or if we're one nil up like we were at fulham bring him on for injury time let him just pop the ball about um kind of thing so it all makes perfect sense you're right you know my view on this like not every most seasons aren't perfect not every season can be perfect sometimes sometimes stuff out of your control just goes against you and it can be stuff like that like when fixtures land when you play teams the shape you're in when you play them and all of that and I said over the summer like Liverpool I'm not taking anything away from them because they thoroughly deserve to win the league at a canter last year but that kind of stuff went for them last season and you look now and they're picking up little niggling injuries as well as some of the balance issues they've got They lost another two players to injury on Wednesday night.

1:11:31And that stuff that just didn't happen to them last season is just starting to happen. And it's the same for us, by the way. 23-24, we had a pretty clean run of injuries, quite a good run of fixtures. We really put some points on the board and then it came back and bit us the next season. That's just how these things go. So good to get Ethan on as well. Just another player who probably just hasn't quite been involved enough lately. You know, Mascara hadn't come on for a couple of games. you know i i felt like as much as um you know resting people and getting people off this was also a little bit about getting people on and kind of saying you know let's we we need we need like some of these guys there's a carabao cup tie on wednesday night a lot of those guys are going to play nor guard noan airy um mascara they're all going to come in i'm sure we'll see hincapay in that game as well we'll see lewis skelly again in that game and then like is it martinelli or trossard you know so we've got there's games for everyone but it felt a little bit to me like almost just trying to reintroduce some people that maybe were starting to get lost in the numbers a little bit and you're right and you're right for palace like they've you know they were on an amazing run of form slightly slowed the last couple of games but they give you a physical game palace because they hit that big switch to munoz all the time they're always looking to get their wing backs involved always looking for that you know that big switch of play particularly with the back three when you've got center backs that are kind of on the corner of the area you can really really hit that um just reading a good piece in the athletic by liam tarmay who's their kind of data guy talking about how they use low crosses like all of their crosses are along the floor um which is really interesting when they've got someone like meteta up front but stylistically they are quite similar to fulham as well in terms of like using those wide rotations and it'll be be interesting to see how we try and take that away from them maybe even use it against them do we do we do what we did against Fulham where you know there was a bit of a space emerged in that first 25 minutes so what do we do we drop Declan Rice back and we got him sending the missiles and saying okay you want to push your full backs on we'll go in behind every time and you push them back so I wouldn't mind betting we'll see um some of that but obviously Palace have got some some threats we're going to have to contend with.

1:13:52I can't remember who they play tonight in the conference. A.K. Larna. Do they travel or are they at home? They're at home. Yeah, A.K. Larna. Larnica. Larnica, yeah. But yeah, we've had an extra two days and we've got like a much bigger squad. So it's set up for us. I don't take anything for granted, but it's set for us quite nicely. So let's go and do the job. Yeah. I mean, we can move on from the Champions League and fully preview the Palace game. I just wanted to get this stat out because I think it's one that's doing the rounds. And if you haven't heard it, you should hear it. Since returning to the Champions League over the last two seasons in the league phase, Arsenal played nine games at the Emirates.

1:14:28We've scored 26 goals and conceded none. I mean, that's pretty good.

1:14:35Elliot:That's pretty good. We could do better. Pretty good. Could have got 28 goals. We left a couple out there. Well, I'll tell you something. That record's going to be tested when Bayern Munich comes to town. and I'm very, very interested in that game and that'll be a fun one to preview and a fun one to discuss. There'll be a lot of interesting things to say about that, but that's not now. Right now, we're going to do a preview of the Palace game and Clive, Palace sit eighth. I don't think that tells the story. Obviously, they are top in XG, tied second in XG difference. Now, they're top in XG, but that has helped by having put 4.4 expected goals on the board against Bournemouth and Jean-Philippe Mateta, responsible for almost three and a half of the expected goals in that game scored a hat trick should have had four and should have won it four three they're an exciting team i think that sar pino um mateta front three group or two behind the one however you want to say it is exciting clive they are um they are dangerous and they will certainly test our defensive record i think this should be a hell of a fun game the aberecha as a derby what's the what are some of the first things that come to mind for you about Sunday?

1:15:42Elliot:Yeah, I was impressed with them last season. They stood out to me. Even that period with the Champions League focus, I didn't feel comfortable. And the way they kept switching it, particularly into wide areas, I didn't like it. And they got, I think they got a goal from a set piece or second phase as they bounced in from the volley edge of the area. And I could see that one on my end. I thought, oh, great. Here we go. But at that point of the season, we weren't super focused on the league. We will be focused on the league at the weekend for sure. so what so what how would we approach him this is it and when you see their team you think okay Munoz is a really good player really good wing back runs forever do you match him up with Lamar and Ellie and say we're going to run with you and we're going to try to push you back or do we do what we did at Newcastle which I think we might do which is play trust us and narrow in and say to them yeah you want to keep switching it we're going to dominate you in the center of the pitch you play two in here you have a box four really but you play two in a box four with two two tens and two sixes you know that's a box four to explain it properly you have a box four in there and so we're going to put five in there and we're going to stretch you out and when it comes back and the second balls we're going to win it in there and we're going to go right down your gut you know and we're going to we're going to keep pressing you keep pushing you and we should break your system up because when you have a back five what you have is pitch coverage and you have comfort and you have targets so you can make the pitch wider quickly you know and you can move people around and you can get into get them to play your game even when you're on the ball you have to be wary of their positional play which is wider than a normal system which is a bit narrow so we have to do is do really well with possessing the center of the pitch and do really well on turnovers be really quick and again we've got people now that want to run that want to run we've got to send a forward the moment that ball's about a turnover he just goes and i think that we need to do that laquire gay and chris richards they're actually good players really good players you know and um chris richards have come on a load this year and laquire's a good signing and players are quite smart in the market particularly peanuts a really good pickup but i think we have to run them about that's the key run their center backs about make them not be comfortable leaving one-on-one in there and make them narrow their shape as a center back three and then we'll have space to go down the sides a little bit so i think it's important to break that system out and the best way to do it when you see people in front of you down the middle of the pitch and they're dominating possession and a 5v4 in there you're going to have to move you know so um so i do see trust our plane you know i do see vice supermendy playing your career sucker i do see that sort of system and they say he's going to want to show his best stuff right he's not going to want to show he's not going to want the lad saying you've gone off got more money playing championship club and uh we've just done you son shake your hand you know i mean so uh you're going to want to play well so you better play well yeah tim what do you make the as a part of this um i assume he'll start i assume he'll start in that sort of 10 position again although i still think we'll see his best when he plays sort of what the leo role has been this season great um and i mean you never know maybe marino comes in and as a gets moved out why there's a lot of different ways we can play this um because we may want to another big body in there to go toe-to-toe with some of the bigger players that that palace have or mateta i think the adam wharton role is going to be really interesting too because he has an incredible eye for a pass but he cannot tackle to save his life so it'd be an interesting part of it uh but but yeah where where as he's concerned even again in this champions league game like he had the shot that deflects that falls to rice that could have been a goal but he you know could he have played in saka there he had the one phenomenal seeing eye pass between fullback and center back to saka that could have led to a goal but he still feels very much like he's finding his way and i think he's suffering from the fact that maybe just profile wise he's quite different from odegaard uh in the sense that odegaard plays that role much more as a box-to-box midfielder right he drops back he picks the balls up off defenders he carries the ball through the midfield his ball progression numbers both by pass and carry for odegaard are always near the top of the top five leagues in europe as he's playing it much more as a 10 between the lines one line up top of the attacking third waiting to get that ball in a little pocket of space so we could turn face and create a little bit of magic and sometimes the game is just not finding him um so i think it's still a work in progress with him in that role i'm curious if you think this is an opportunity for him to really show his stuff that he'll want to show something to palace or you know if if that might be a negative right they're trying to how do you how do you appraise his his likelihood of impacting this game yeah i i think he will play that position again again not least because it's a league cup game on wednesday and that will be you know a chance for for everyone else to get to get some game time i think you know i don't i don't know the guy so i don't know what arteta will say to him but maybe there is you know um pointing to that rice game against west ham last season where rice gets hooked on 60 minutes and whether arteta says it whether as a knows it it's that kind of if you don't do it i will take you off in front of those supporters and you will get ironic cheers and all of that so don't focus on that what I do think is interesting as a slight wrinkle though is in the summer you know quite a lot of these quite good mid-table upper mid-table teams did get picked off a bit like Bournemouth they haven't missed a beat like their goalkeeper and three of their back four went haven't missed a beat palace lost as anna lise the last two summers haven't really missed a beat newcastle lost izak and they've bought uh volton volton marda volton marda yep and at the moment it looks like they've done better out of it somehow whereas izak's struggling i think he'll be fine at the but it's it's you know it's quite interesting that like a lot of these clubs haven't suffered that much so far when they've lost players.

1:22:05But, you know, yeah, I think Arteta would say to Ezra, just like, just play your game. Don't worry about all of that, essentially. But it's interesting, isn't it? Because you talk about how different Ezra is from Odegaard and Clive, what you were saying on the last podcast about, you know, get your touches up, which I think is almost what you'd said about Nguaneri as well when he plays that position. It's like, not every touch you have has to be the killer pass. Look at someone like Zubimendi. um you know where it's like not every pass has to be the killer you don't have to you know like sometimes you can just bounce a pass or go sideways or move someone around or take someone with you um but then there's that question about but then are we just asking him to imitate a guard or does the which you you shouldn't really ask players to just imitate the other guy so is it more about the team coming towards him and understanding what he can give what are you good at you're good at shooting from the edge of the box Odegaard doesn't really do that that much Mourinho doesn't really do that that much but Hezza and Nwineri you guys want to get shots off and you know how do we break the West Ham game open as a shot you know it was a shot with a rebound and he probably should have scored before that from the left eight position so you know it's probably more about how do we get the best out of you as much as him looking around and going, how do I really find myself in this system?

1:23:28But I do expect him to play. I'm sure he'll be fine. You know, expectations are really high as well. But I think that assist for the Martinelli goal against City, that's one of the world-class moments of the season. That is one of those moments in the season where you kind of go, that's not about coaching or instruction. that is amazing player does amazing thing and digs us out of the crap, basically, which all good teams need. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so I just wanted to say this while it's in my head. I still think when he gets on the ball, you see the quality. How he finds ways to get on the ball more and how he finds ways to make sure he's doing his job out of possession.

1:24:15That part's still to come for me, but once he's on the ball, the quality is obvious. Clive?

1:24:21Elliot:yeah i think when i when i'm speaking about the touches thing i normally do that with people no i say to real players i normally say because i want you i want your personality to grow within the team i want your psychological footprint within the team to get bigger so go and get some touches and don't worry about it do you mean and um for him it's harder than your caress your caress just keep making the same runs whether you score or not just keep making the same runs we want you to do the most sprints in the game but his game will will be defined and we gotta find him but he's got a position where we have to find he's the customer of the ball going forward do you know what i mean yeah we're saying now we expect him to play make which is a different responsibility so how does he do that so in our minds and tim you've half said it already but in our minds odegaard mate he's super intense he's all over that pitch mate when he travels zone to zone i don't know what he's doing he must have a tunnel in the ground because he pops up somewhere else i don't know how he gets there right so so he's quite an intensive playmaker it's all about intensity intensity pressing it's all high energy high energy as a you've heard me say it before he's bob marley isn't he he just bounces about between the lines give it to me but sometimes by standing still you create space for yourself so we have to adjust our minds to that and i think he's more comfortable at this moment with this with our team sort of standing behind the play a little bit deeper and dinking in behind but i think he needs to get a bit more comfortable recognizing when timber goes on the right hand side and zaka go on the right hand side they're looking for a cutback son they're looking for that cutback to come back you got to be there that's your connection that's your that's that's how you affect the team martinelli on the goal that Yokores scored the first goal, Martin A, does a fantastic cutback cross.

1:26:13Elliot:Left foot, I think it was. And Eze came in with a flying Hong Kong foo-y kung-fu kick to try to kick it in, but it got deflected, which fell to Yokores and Yokores scores. That's what the coaching message for me would be. That's what you've got to do. Off the sides, connect, ball strike, shoot. And then if you want to play and make, you're doing it already. You're doing it from deep. The sack of dink pass down the side. he's got maybe that's what he is for us do you see what i mean off the side shooter deep playmaker where he thinks it when when two men is not in the picture so that's where i am with it at the moment and just got to get used to him can i ask you something about that though stay there for a second because this is a dynamic shift when i picture arsenal's triangles on the right when i picture where players show up and i picture saka having the ball on the right wing i think of Odegaard top of the box, sort of in that little pocket where Saka can slip the ball through to him between his two markers and then make the run.

1:27:11It feels like Timber is now in that spot. And Eze's maybe one more half space over, more in the center of the pitch. And so he's not as frequently combining with Saka. It's more Timber and Saka that are combining, Jokras making runs, and Eze's occupying more central areas. So that's a bit of a difference. Do you think that that is something that we could maybe cycle a little bit rotate a little bit so that as it could get closer to to sack up because they had some beautiful little combinations in the athletic game but i think it's

1:27:41Elliot:more commonly timber doing it now so again it's what we this is what we do as fans we all we all do it um we cut and paste don't we so we're used to seeing this so we want to see if this guy does it right so he's doing it differently so the right foot shot that got pushed out against west down that Rice slotted, that little diagonal run. Odegaard's not making that central to the right run. Do you see what I mean? To get a shot off on your right foot. That's something that he does. The shots he got in the game against Newcastle, that was an incredible game. He's so unfortunate to get two goals in that game.

1:28:16Elliot:His Ezra area shooting was stunning. And I thought his role in that game was really interesting, almost like a second striker. So we have to let it develop in our minds you know that he's not odegaard i don't think anyone can be he's not odegaard but he's him and maybe you know you play with a unit elliot or pod i used to say a pod of three maybe that is now a pod of two on the right hand side and a pod of two with yokarez and heze that's a two in there do you see what i mean yeah and then we so we're back to the twos again you know which i'm which i'm fine with you make it you add a you overload with an extra man late and make it a 3v2 on that side so i like i just i like it it's different and we gotta i'm up for it i am more excited watching football this year i defended everything last year i'm so excited because of how we look and we look different now i just got to accept it and i'm not critique it because it doesn't look the same as last year it'll be really interesting tim as as we wrap here the final thoughts on this palace game obviously an important game for us um on sunday to to stay top but this is going to be a challenge for our defense I think in a way that we haven't faced a lot.

1:29:28Erling Holland is the biggest challenge in world football right now. Scored again midweek. He got a goal against us and then they just bunkered. Liverpool didn't really try to attack us. It was a very weird low incident game. But Crystal Palace interestingly had the highest weighted XG in the league when trailing which I think is interesting. That tells you that if they do fall behind they are really going to come for you and that they've been good at that. And I believe they fell behind against Palace. I mean, Bournemouth and really, really went for them in a bonkers kind of game. So what do you think of this dynamic of them looking like one of the most ferocious attacks at the moment and relentless attacks versus clearly the best defense in the league?

1:30:14Does that play into our strength actually? Is this a case of us being the exact wrong opposition for them? Could be, hopefully. um i do think once a few more of those conference league games kick in that that maybe maybe that'll even out a bit but you're right the data the data doesn't lie about where they are and where they should be i think they've got the most big chances created um in the league as well this season so you know teams really struggle with what they do and how they do it i would say that there's maybe be enough data on them now um you know like because they're learning to play without ezer they do something slightly different they go much more through mateta at that stage he's hit a bit of a purple patch well to be fair i mean he got a hatch on saturday before that his his goal scoring was kind of okay but they've really tried to play to mateta's strengths now which is a smart thing to do so it doesn't all go through ezer anymore and um yeah they look they look very very dangerous it's maybe an opponent I'd like to play in a month or so but you know they have slowed down a bit they've taken one point from their last two after I think they hadn't lost for like nearly 20 games or something and that included winning the FA Cup and winning the Community Shield and all of that and you know Glasner very very smart coach there are a lot of good coaches in the league now you know the next time one of those quote-unquote big jobs comes up it's going to be Glasner iraiola they're all going to be talked about again um probably when yeah yeah yeah when tottenham sack thomas frank in a month's time or something um you know all these guys will be talked about again they're just a really really well coached team um i think and i think what they do is quite different in their setup with those kind of wide overloads and and their back three and everything and i think teams they just give you a little bit of a different challenge and they've got a center forward who they can just whack the board to if they need to.

1:32:19And he's given us some challenges in the past. So yeah, I'm not taking anything for granted here. I think this will be another really difficult game. Yeah, it's a big weekend because City play on Sunday as well. Same time we do, they go to a resurgent Villa. We obviously host Palace. Liverpool go to Brentford on Saturday with no EZAC. Chelsea, who were a bit rampant at the moment, hosts Sunderland. So a lot to watch for there. Final thoughts here, Clive. I expect it'll be the lineup that has sort of kind of become our, quote, first choice lineup, unquote, right now for Premier League games. I don't think there'll be much of a change there.

1:32:59And once again, I think the probably underrated X factor of this game will be Zubomendi. But for me, I don't know how I look at those last couple of running games and Bukayo Saka doesn't have a goal or two or three or a hat trick of assists or whatever it is, I still think he's the player that can change a game for us. So is this maybe Saka getting the end product that his performances the last couple weekends have deserved? I see him having a really big opportunity in this game.

1:33:30Elliot:Yeah, he's playing really, really well and he's had a couple of 90s now, which is interesting. And he's quite economical. The second half is in front of Tim and he walks about a bit than the Tim in the second half late in games because he knows how to manage the game and um so I think your Marino shout is in my head now and it's funny how football goes right because you can make that shout Marino plays in the 10 and as a wide and I'm not sure people are going to say in the comments but we said that a few weeks ago there'd be uproar wouldn't they everyone's being negative blah blah blah Marino actually it might be something that we do you know and i know and again you gotta use your resources right and he's a really good player right so to play him in that role to create some physicality in those spaces to really make their center backs be challenged by two bigger guys and i think that's important and then you try you want to make that back three into a back five and they have to they can't stay in the areas they want to stay and so that's an interesting call and as they off the left which i think suits him We all agree with that.

1:34:32Elliot:But he's making the 10 work his way. So I've been edgy about this game because I really rate Crystal Palace. And I like him as well, to be fair. And I really rate them. But I want to see us focus and beat them. I want to see us focus. And I think the focus has been something that's really stood out to me all season. These guys ain't messing about. They're not messing about. If they bring their focus to this game, Sunday, 2 o 'clock, nice day. Yeah, let's get that ground rocking. Go from there. Yep. Yeah, I think the Marino thing, if he and Jokras are sort of in the box, on the edge of the box, banging those three center backs and occupying them, it makes life a lot easier for an NCAA drifting off the left and certainly for a sack on the right.

1:35:18It could get very interesting. They are well coached. They have a good shape. They're a good team. I can't look past midfield in any game right now and not see us having a massive advantage in midfield, whoever we choose. Wharton would be really interesting if they pick him because, again, he can pick a pass. He's brilliant at it. But I just think his lack of range and lack of tackling means that you can run through their midfield a bit. So interesting dynamics there. I am excited to do the instant reaction after the big win there, especially with City having lost at Villa because we back Unai on this podcast, obviously.

1:35:52So lots more to come. I think we've got something special cooked up for you on the Patreon tomorrow. So stay tuned for that. But until then, I think we can knock it on the head a good midweek and hopefully a good weekend ahead. Tim, thanks. My pleasure as always. Clive, thank you, sir. Thank you very much. Thanks, everybody. We do love you being here. Give us a five-star review if you don't mind. It's a way people can find the podcast. And we'll have some news hopefully on more get-togethers in the near future because we love seeing you in person. but for now we just love having you join us on the pod it means the world to us we love being able to do this and it feels like a very special season brewing and very excited to go through it together so we love you and we will talk to you after arsenal 10 palasco

1:36:50You