Dowman Shines But Cup Exit Raises Anxiety Levels

27:58Elliot:So now we've been exposed with our back line in different ways, on the ball and now off the ball in two different games by two different styles. And we've got a game in Portugal in the week and I'm not sure how they're going to play against us. So that is a bit of a worry to me, Elliot, because I'm a big believer in the foundation that drives the team. My fullbacks are my stabilizers on the bike that keeps the team stable if your fullbacks are unstable he says here see in brackets see liverpool if your fullbacks are unstable your center backs get pulled around everyone looks at the center back say what's up what's wrong with canary and van dyke i'll tell you what's wrong with them they're covering too much space what's wrong with van de ven and romero i'll tell you what's wrong when the fullbacks start to pitch look at their families in the crowd not getting back that's what happens when you overexpose teams when you leave spaces down the side you look unstable we look unstable and every gap we're recovering into we're recovering into to feel someone else is not there and that's never a good look right so it was a concern but then i go back to when sleep was on the pitch who i feel sees and controls this team yes and he controls the team on the ball and he drops off really nicely and he and he sweeps up beautifully i think our positions are really tight our distances are tight i think they control this when we have our best set in the mids on the pitch they know the distances by which to play and we have a compactness to us and we've always got passes up the stairs one pass to second pass of the four lines in attack and we go from there didn't see that against Southampton I just saw two centre backs running into each other I saw a centre mid trying to protect by just being there I saw the other centre mids trying to be offensive and pressing up but not really getting back in you've got a 16 year old winger we can't put demands on him to come back in all the time, although he tried.

29:46Elliot:But it's a unique experience for him at that level when he normally comes on and we have the advantage and he's playing in the opposition's half most of the time. And then we have Martinelli who's an experienced player, but a young experienced player. He's not mature. You know what I mean by that? He's quite young in his game. He's quite, he's like a young 24-year-old. You know, he's crazy. But Saka was 24 at 19. Do you see what I mean? With the wisdom by which he plays. And suddenly you look at the team and the gap between a championship team that's seventh, particularly if you've got Havertz, who's for me in the wrong position, and Jays, who's I'm not sure of the position, then you have a problem, don't you?

30:25Elliot:If you don't execute, if you don't score, you don't get that first goal, which tries the temperature of the game, you have a problem. And we did. And you could probably, you know you watch these cup upsets when other teams have them. You could see this one sort of coming, couldn't you, developing in front of you. You could just feel it developing in front of you. Yeah. I think it's one of those days to look when you're trying to find your best form. One of the things that happens is the players who aren't playing become the most popular players in the team, right? I think it was an interesting night for the people that are saying, where's Christian Norgaard been?

30:59Where's what's happening to miles? Where's Ben White? You know, give him a chance. Where, where's this guy? Like, it's interesting night for that because you see in the clear light of day that these players maybe just aren't quite at the level they need to be. And for some of them, to be fair, it is hard to hardly play. and then be thrust into a game in an all-change lineup and be expected to hit the ground running. I do think maybe we're seeing with Ben White, with Kai Havertz, with Gabriel Jesus, all to different extents. But when you are a professional athlete and you've suffered multiple serious injuries that keep you out of your sport for a while, eventually a little bit of the explosiveness, a little bit of the sharpness, a little bit of the technique takes a hit.

31:36And at some point, just those little bit of drop-offs can result in what becomes a very obvious drop-off. I mean, look, Ben White had a bad day. Everybody gets it. You saw it. He made one big error for the goal. He had some other errors. He was getting to his spots late, which meant that he was fouling. He had some really good interceptions and some really good combination play, but when he wasn't getting to his spot on time, he was getting beat. Kai Havertz won one of five duels in the game. That's not how I think about Kai Havertz. You know, even if you say, I don't want him in midfield, physically, is he at the level?

32:04And then there's Gabriel Jesus, Clive, where I think a big issue we had in the first half, there were periods where we were combining well and we were occupying the right areas of the pitch, but we didn't really have a center forward. And Gabriel Jesus, this was a tough watch, I think, in that first half for him in terms of getting involved in the game, influencing the game, and that's with and without the ball.

32:27Elliot:Yeah, and we had a little chat last night, didn't we, about this? And I came up with another way of setting up the team to maybe give us some more structures down the middle, et cetera, and moving Jesus away from the middle. I don't think he offers us enough structure. So I'm moving into wide areas and I like Kai essentially higher up because I think we find him. Do we have direction? Much like the reason why I like Jokeres, because I think we find him. He gives us direction. We know his role. He has complete clarity. And I think we lack clarity in our system, really. And I know other people may not agree with me, but I didn't like the balance of the team.

33:01Elliot:But I know when you make seven changes, I can't expect perfect balance. but maybe I can expect clarity of roles and I didn't quite like it I didn't quite like how we responded to changes of possession I didn't like our distance I just didn't like it so not every time you can be perfect but what he did uncover I mean I said this last night I tried to get the words right there's a set of players in our team which I think are part of like the older Arsenal you know the Arsenal that really came into fruition two three years ago you know jesus martinelli maybe a bit i don't know maybe a bit of kai maybe a bit of odegaard you know those players ben white i mean zinchenko was a big part of that group yeah and that was the that was the first phase you know ramsdale yeah i saw yeah i saw 1.0 right so um tell me yasu we can keep going man there's there were a lot of them let's focus on the ones who are here right and they've done unbelievable things have quite got there particularly not last season forget last season because we were robbed injury wise etc we weren't never there they had the right squad there we bought Raheem Sterling the last day of the window we had to do things there that weren't smart and two weeks later Edu then left so let's just park that one shall we we know what happened last year was not a true title challenge but a year before we were there we just didn't quite find our balance in time and we finished two points off to a Man City team just nicked it on the day so this Arsenal 1.0 has now been not to every place but it's been challenged by a new regime and the new regime maybe includes a little bit of Eze a bit of Maddowek, a bit of Yocarez we've got Hinkapi in the group we've got a fitter Calafiore we've got a much more elevated Timber you know and we're looking at this newer group and then we've got we haven't got tommy assu but we have got mascara who's can be a bit raw but he's on the pitch more often than not unlike tommy assu and and so we have this new school this new regime this new set of players and but we've now got some of the older set of players who may not be at the peak of their powers and we are coming towards a period of selection critical selection and i'm asking myself which way is the manager going to go is he going to go towards the old school or is he going to empower the new school you know and it's the new school that have got us here primarily yeah because they've been available until as they went down recently they've been available they've been taken this forward.

35:48Elliot:We haven't liked it all the time. We haven't liked the seven-touch Jokeres games, but we like his 17 goals. And so it's a challenge for our thinking. We're used to Odegaard and Havertz and Ben White overlapping. But actually, one of the players that got a stock rising last night was Ewan Timber. People have now just recognised what he's been doing and he has been called the best right-back in the world. And we've had a reminder and so when it comes to it now we're coming to crunch time are we gonna empower the new school or are we gonna empower the old school i think this is a critical period did that did that yes and and obviously the manager this is where it's hard right you and i as supporters who just watch and have no control over it we can have a clear idea what we want to do managers develop relationships with players they make promises to them they feel a debt of obligation to them a debt a gratitude to them.

36:44I mean, you know, Kepa got the start because Mikel was clear. You know, I have to manage this dressing room. There are promises I make and I have to keep it. And I do think that there's going to be times when he feels a loyalty to some of the old guard and may have to decide if that loyalty could cost him things he doesn't want to have to sacrifice. Yeah, I mean, I'll just say it as bluntly as I can. I don't know that I think Gabriel Jesus has much left to give at this level. I think he probably still has football. And I remember Lacazette had a last season at Arsenal where you were just like, he's done.

37:16He's completely done. And he went to France in the next season, scored 20 goals. I think that there is football out there for Gabriel Jesus, but I don't think it's this football. And, you know, that would be an example of one that's done. One that I don't think is done, and I do want to get your take on it a bit, is Martin Odegaard, who I actually think, look, he had two high-profile moments in this game that will stand out to people in a negative way. The big, big miss where he should do much better. And the back hill where he's not on the same wavelength with Max, match, which leads to the counter that leads to the goal.

37:43There was some lovely combination play, some lovely little tight control touches in small areas, some playing the ball inside the block between defenders that I did like. So I think it was, there were more of the things I associate with the positives he brings to the team, but he's one, Clive. Like I think Ben White, it's clear cut. I think Jesus, it's clear cut. With Odegaard, I don't think it is clear cut. And the midfield construction has kind of been an open question all season you know yeah so to be fair to jesus

38:13Elliot:there was a time not too long ago people were saying he should be starting ahead of yorker not this this calendar year and the same for ben white with timber by the way we need to attack differently we need ben white to play so we have to be honest and say this these opinions have changed my my thought process has been quite similar and it has been a bit misconstrued into player criticism but it's not meant that way it's more stylistic and so when certain players play we play like arse 1.0 and arse 1.0 wasn't quite good enough and arse 1.0 played a little bit like yesterday and we got transitioned on and and i don't like that team and if certain players have extraordinary influence over how we play but we don't deliver then I have a problem.

39:10Elliot:We spent the first two, three months this year talking about Eze not having the touches that say Jan Odegaard has and I was one of those people I was trying to wonder what he was doing and I thought actually he's getting closer to Jokovic he's more second strike well it takes a bit of time to analyse it you look at the shot he's having four shots a game he's barely touched it but he's having four shots a game right And then suddenly he had a bit of an off-the-ball moment, comes in, comes in, and he's now doing off-the-ball, and he's scoring. And he's now part of the team framework. Then he gets injured again.

39:42Elliot:Now, Eze is not as dominant as, say, a Martin Odegaard from a how we play. He's a bit more associative. He's not as ball dominant. But he scores. And he really delivers. And he delivers under pressure. And so I ask myself, how does the team look you know how does it look you know i'm not i'm using him as an example trust me it's not the only one how does the team look you know and um when we play a two plus one with him floating we can do that other people as they can turn the left but how does the team look are we associative is it a team game or do we defer back to a style of play which hasn't got us anywhere you know and i think that's the challenge that we have now there's some of the times i've watched this play i you know my thoughts on the pairs versus the triangles and you you know how i feel you know how i feel about playing with a bit more of a active double pivot versus a a six and two eights i i like that i i feel more secure that way i feel more stabilized i think we can do more things until man city stopped it you know the other day and we didn't push on and so it comes down to that for me i'm not going to sit here and only guards first game back and kill him i didn't kill your credits when he couldn't trap it so i'm going to kill him we have to allow people to get into form but i do feel there are other ways we play and I feel as secure and it's got us to the top of Champions League and it got us to the top of the league by nine points and I don't think we should be reverting back anytime soon unless you deliver if you deliver mate do what you like yeah well I mean it it's a more urgent topic because with as an out the really important games are now literally around the corner Tuesday Saturday and you got to pick a midfield and for me Kai Havertz is not a midfielder.

41:44Now, Mikel Arteta knows more than I do about football, so I'm going to trust what he thinks Kai Havertz is. But I think you either have to take the clarifying role of Jokeres and play him and know that there are things he won't do that you might like him to do, but things he will do that you like him to do, which is stick at the net. Or you have to play Kai Havertz up front and feel that that gives you a little bit more control in the final third area, more combination play, and hopefully some goals. What I don't think you can keep doing is playing Kai Havertz in midfield. Um, and so that means obviously if as is not there, then you've got Martin Odegaard as an option.

42:18You've got Max Dowman as an option. You've got Pakaio Saka as an option with either Nani or Max on the wing. I think in that instance, I'd probably default to the captain of the football club who is a midfielder naturally rather than moving players around or calling on a 16 year old to have to wear that burden. What's interesting, Clive, I thought we did have some moments and it's funny because they were largely right before we conceded the first goal there was a beautiful bit of combination play in the right half space it included Odegaard included Max Max winds up with a shot in the box that he smashes at the keeper near post remember that and it was a really good period ball winds up recycling Martinelli gets to it cut back Odegaard misses the clear chance but it was lovely but I do think that to your point some of that combination play that we had that was beautiful came at the expense of being very, very easy to counter against.

43:09Yeah. In transition, that's the word I'm looking for, thank you, into the channels and with long balls. So you're right. There's a way we played that got us to where we are this season. And even if I don't think I want to hang it in the Louvre, I'm concerned about results. And there's one way we can play that we know can get us results. The other way, less clear, you know?

43:27Elliot:Yeah, I'm a bit more of a pragmatist. It comes naturally to my eye. Mate, we're 1-0 down. I want all number 10s on the pitch, mate. Get them. Just get them on, can you? We wind all down. We need to do something. The game state changes. I prefer more stability in the team. If you want to look at maybe two games, there's probably three games that I'm going to re-watch. I need to educate myself for the crunch time of the season. Aston Villa away. Aston Villa at home. And if you watch those games, particularly from an Odegaard perspective, they were very interesting games because you saw the plus points.

44:02Elliot:And you saw some of the negative points in those games. As Nabila at home, second half, Odegaard and Zubemendi were incredible. Just incredible. Working in cohort with Trossard, I think Saka played that game, I believe. And the way they squeezed that as a four in the centre was just incredible. But they fixed the first half where Anana and Morgan Rodgers just danced through our team. Continuously. you know and so we won that game 4-1 or 4-0 Villa game a home game but I remember that first half I'm thinking crikey second half got a bit hairy and we danced away from it and Villa would have gone three points behind us at that point you know so and the away game again off the ball not very good we ended up hanging in we didn't have our centre back so we explained it no Gabriel no Saliba our defence would be like yesterday actually a little bit unstructured but it's just a game to highlight the plus points and the downside of things and I prefer quiet calm structural build up I don't want to see basketball games I don't want to be behind the city I don't want to be seen attacking mid 10 yards behind the plate as division 1 players are running away from them that doesn't warn me that doesn't tell me that's a stand that's not going to beat Bayern Munich is it that's not going to beat Barcelona if we get there it's not and so we have to sharpen up structure we have to get ourselves into that position we have to we may have to do one of scots words we may have to have a trade-off here at some point and what is that going to be and it comes back to where i am new school versus old school how are we going to select because we're coming now elliot to the time you've always spoke about what is our first 11 what is it and and we're not really clear and we're not clear because of the key people, sorry, mate, who are coming back into the room.

46:02And while you and I not disagree, while you have been clear that first 11s aren't your priority, I think you'd agree now at this stage of the season, you want to start shrinking the group and start zeroing in on the ones who can take you over the line.

46:16Elliot:I've been consistent. It wasn't the time to find the first 11s in August and September. This is the time to find your group. This is the time now. Champions League court final. Yep. you're going for the league seven games to go he we've had two weeks off a lot of them in national breaks we prioritize their health and well-being now let's go this is what we're about all right so this is the moment to judge you need 22 players in august to get you to where we are in april now we need 15 you know what i mean you don't want to be needing 22 players in april and may you want to be needing 14 players in may well you need your five stars you need you need about right You get my point.

46:57Yeah, 15. But my point is that narrowing that down is what Mikel is going to start to do. And I think, by the way, before we shift gears a little bit and talk about the subs and a few other things in this game and just quickly on who might play against sporting, I think we're going to see very clearly now with the remaining games this season that the manager does have a hierarchy. And I don't think that's going to be ambiguous for us. So let's shift gears. Let's talk a little bit more about the game in detail because we've stayed big picture, which is probably fine for a heavily rotated game against lower division opposition.

47:33Yes, that's what we do. What did you think of what happened in minute 62? It was a throw-in. So, all right. Well, first things first, just a reminder, we would love for you to give to the fundraiser, and I realize that's easier to do when we're winning and you have a smile on your face, but doing something that helps, that makes an impact when you aren't, winning games is a reminder that you're here for more than whether the ball goes in the net or not. You're here because it means something that you feel deeply connected to. These children need our help, so please help. The link is in the bio.

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52:24Elliot:because you're never sure if a six-year-old could do 90 minutes in men's football at that level when something's on the line and so it's really good to see. I mean, Max is not the issue, right? He's just not. And I think we're playing on Tuesday night, right? So you start, you can't help but think ahead. You're knowing how many minutes are in certain players' legs. If you want them to play, you have a plan for Tuesday. If you want them to play a period in that game and you get them out. And so in some regards, we actually got potentially a little bit weaker towards the end because of injury, you know.

52:58Elliot:and maybe unforeseen injury to Big Gabby, which I'm hoping is just that, mate, I've got a game coming up on my knees, let me get off and get an ice on it. I'm hoping it's that rather than two weeks sitting on his backside again at the wrong time of the season like last year, right? His body language didn't look scary, but Ezza said he was fine when he went off the last time and he's been out for weeks, so I don't know. I read something this week, and I don't know if it's true. I quoted a stat last week about Jokrezi's shots on target that someone said in public and it wasn't accurate. So I'm going to say this, that potentially Eze was on the walk pre-game, which tells me he's close.

53:35Elliot:So I'm not thinking he's going to be out for a long time. That might not be true. So I'm going to put a caveat in there for that. But yeah, I don't think it's going to be too long. And this is the time to not say push people, but really protect them. And they've done that in the national break and he's potentially here. I think Nonny being back so quickly even surprised me. you know when you walk out when they need brace and he's back that was good I'm not looking at the substitute to criticalise in it because we got a massive game let's be honest right we've got we've got may not feel like it right now because the best team in the country at the moment is not Arsenal I'm not dumb the best team in the country at this moment current moment in time is Man City they found their juice they beat Liverpool 4 they beat us 2 right so at this moment in time they're the best team in the country as we were two years ago when we came towards the end of the season, won 16 out of 18.

54:28Elliot:It didn't matter. We didn't get enough points in the first half of the season. And so, yeah, I think we have to refine that form. And any way we're going to refine that form is by making sure that the right people are available at the right time in the season, which they haven't been for quite a while for us. But they are now, potentially, and it's all going to be so important to see who's there on Tuesday night. I mean, I've not even seen, I've forgotten what Saka looks like, it feels like. I've not seen him for ages. Trotard hadn't had a good 26 injury wise bit in and out not scored in a while we haven't really seen much of him we found our centre forward he looks really confident and bouncing we found a 16 year old come on let's keep that in perspective I think I rate Nonny highly I really do I think not for what also what he is but what he can be and what he provides so when you have a team and you're trying to pick a team of balance you need to have threat real speed and threat and that player historically has been Martinelli for us you know so you take Martinelli out then you're sort of playing a little bit European wise you can do a trussar in the sack if you see what I mean and your career provides your legs but you know I think Nani is so important to maintain threat during a game and a game now is not just about starters it's about finishes as well right so I know you sometimes when you're that quick and you get the ball open spaces and everyone's looking at you the lights on you and no one's in three yards of you you kick it and you hit a ball boy then people remember that does what i mean they say you got you got to fix your end product you got to fix this you got to slow down and people like me come up with this sort of analysis right so but really the talent is the consistent sprinting and consistent attack and the ability to threaten people and shake defenses and he has that and we have something to refined with him.

56:16Elliot:So I've got a lot of time for him, I have to say. And I'm working with Saka. We're going to protect his career. They're going to protect each other's career. I think they'll both go to World Cup. I think they'll both share that position on the right-hand side. And that's the way the game's going in 100-degree heat. What do we think is going to happen? You know, so, so yeah, it's just, it's just a slightly different way to look at the game, player-wise. Yeah, look, I don't want to spend too much time on Nani because I don't think it's a big talking point here. I think we're desperately in need of players right now who in the final third make that really intelligent last action or really decisive last action.

56:59Yokores did it, and the more he can do that, that'll help. I think Ezza is a player that tends to do it. I think it's weird because I've been saying, we need a dribbler, we need someone who causes chaos, who pulls defenders out of shape, and Nani does that with his explosive athleticism, his drives to the byline, his sort of unpredictability of his explosive athleticism. He creates that chaos that we need. And it's not his fault that he's not doing the thing that I feel like we need, which is we need one more player to just have that coolness, that composure, that clinicality in the final action, the final third.

57:31Odegaard obviously missed a clear chance. It used to be meat and drink for him. That used to be exactly what he did, right? Arrive in the box late, get on the end of something and score. Right now our left wingers are not doing it. Saka's a little out of form. I would still back him to probably come around and do it. Yokoz is starting to do it maybe with a little more regularity, which would be huge for us. But that is something we need. And so Nani frustrates me because he has that thing that like a Doku has a bit of, an Adama Traore has a bit of, which is so much potential to unsettle a defense, but not quite enough consistency in what he does after he unsettles a defense.

58:08Elliot:And the City fans get frustrated with Doku. Yeah, as they should. And because we know our wingers best, don't we? We know them. We know them. And from the outside, that dog, oh my God, he's brilliant. He's so quick. He's so dangerous. And the City fans are thinking he's called for three months, mate. What's up with you? His own manager, by the way, said he's never going to be a goal scorer. He said that about him. He's like, never going to be a goal scorer. But I tell you what you do. Every time we go and play him, we're thinking about him, aren't we? Yeah. We're thinking about him because of his...

58:37No fullback wants to line up against him, and no fullback wants to line up against someone like Nani. and I accept that. But we need that player that does the thing he doesn't do, you know, to stick it in the back of the neck.

58:47Elliot:What you're really saying, Elliot, is, look, Clive, I'm sick and tired of this. We've got two months to go. I need to find a forward who's going to deliver for me. Yeah, that's what I need. And I've decided today it's Nonny, and he didn't. Well, it's got to be someone. Can you tell me who it's going to be so I can take a deep breath and relax? Who's it going to be? At this moment in time, back to what I was saying, new school versus old school, I don't know who it's going to be. But I do know that they're all there and available, and they're a lot fitter than they were two months ago, as a aside, you know, who I hope will be back very, very shortly.

59:24Elliot:So now we have decisions to make, don't we, about how we want to play, what's our style, who are we entrusting with the coup de grace of this project, who are we entrusting to deliver? you know this is big time stuff Elliot it really is it's big time stuff mate you can't be having some of the behaviors that we've seen from all the players not just a few we can't be having these behaviors we need a completely different attitude a pleative mentality to execute under pressure we need yes yeah because I'm going to tell you something Mikel Arteta did it again by the way in his post-match press conference he talked about we had the chances to put this game away and Mikel I think has been the word guilty is not what I'm reaching for but I'm going to use it anyway guilty of calling out the missed big opportunities but I'm with him in this respect all the things that we complain about whine about recognize is not being perfect if we just had someone who was consistently executing in the final third those things would feel way less weighty the reality is if Kai Havertz finishes a chance against Manchester City that is a good presentable chance, that game turns a different direction.

1:00:35Instead, Kepa drops it, chucks it in his net, and we feel like we're playing like crap. Again, against Southampton, right? If Odegaard takes his chance, and Ben White, then we're not talking about a Ben White error misjudging a ball that was crossed into the box and giving away an easy goal. And it's just too often right now that our forwards are not executing on those critical moments. And look, you can get past that, Clive, over the course of a season but when it comes to the semi-final of a champions league or the last few deciding games of the league there's gonna come a moment when someone's got to put their foot on the ball and put it in the back of the net and who do you trust otherwise games pass you by well that's the thing i i think i trust as to do it candidly but you know is that player going to be yokers is it going to be saka if you had told me in august some players going to have to take us over the line and win us a champions league or a league i would have put my money on kyle saka so it's going to have to be someone and i think that's why my frustration when nani is bubbling up not because of anything that's wrong with nani but because in martinelli and in leo and in nani and jesus and in kai at the moment there feels and odegaard in this game a lack of that clinical execution in the final third which is causing us a lot of heart hardship right now yeah and the thing is we're hard to

1:01:49Elliot:please as fans right because we've got one guy that scores goals sometimes they have a shot but sometimes he scores goals and he scored a fair amount of goals this year. But when he does score goals, we then, you know what we talk about? We talk about his aesthetics of his game. We talk about how he looks. How many touches he had, how many passes he completed. How many touches he had, how many times he kicked it out from throwing, right? And then so what we really want is we want Thierry Henry for God's sake. That's what we really want because he can do all the aesthetic stuff and stick in the pattern there and play like a winger.

1:02:23Elliot:and play like a number 10. And I reckon he could have played 10 and a half if he fancied it. But we haven't got him. So we have to use a collection of players to get what we need and hope they can associate together and play together and combine, right? Well, I'm a simple man too. Look, I'm going to be honest, right? I am guilty of looking around at other clubs that I admire, other clubs that I think are good, and seeing how they do it. And it does take, I think, a little bit of patience and self-confidence to acknowledge we're doing it a different way. because you know what? Erling Haaland went to some dodgy doctor over the international break, suddenly scoring hat-tricks.

1:02:58Allegedly. And allegedly, well, he went to a doctor. Allegedly, the doctor is dodgy. I don't know. He went to a doctor, he's scoring hat-tricks. If we face Barcelona in the semifinal of the Champions League, we're going to be lining up against Lewandowski, Lamal, and Rafinha. If we face Bayern Munich, it's going to be Kane and Musiala, right? And Olisse. If we line up against PSG, it's going to be Dembélé and Douai and Kvartzkelia and Barcola, right? I mean, I look around and I see that stuff. And I know we can't be that right now, but someone has to be something like that. I think you can only kind of collectivize attack for so long before someone has to be a focal point, a reliable end point for your attack.

1:03:42And we have collectivized our attack brilliantly this season. But I do think someone has to, or some combination of players have to step up and individually take some responsibility. But don't you think that's right, that the time for collectivizing attack is passing?

1:03:57Elliot:We're not special, Elliot. Everyone thinks the same. It's time for us to upgrade our attack. And we'll, you know, potentially, I can see one or two coming in, and we may lose two or three going out, right? And we need to consolidate. And that's what, you know, this is what we're going to be talking about all summer, right? It's going to be another attacker plus maybe a wide left player. you know that's a true right left you know and so that's where we're heading and potentially there will be names that we know for those roles and maybe not a player that we're trying to develop because does it frustrate you watching Semenya score goals at City do you have any sense of a missed opportunity there no I don't really hey it's a good player right there's no mistake about it we went the Eze route we spent our money there and City spent our money similar number on Semenya right so look they've got money and they can just bring these players in when they feel like it right and so so yeah we went another route and we have to accept it we went for the the more collective route with Nonny and Jokarez and Eze and I think they've done pretty well this season they've made us you know better as a collective group but you are right collectivised like that word it's time basically what we want is we want a superstar like Cavratz Skeller or something like that to just take that role and play 60 games and never get injured.

1:05:23Elliot:But when I do my team, I can see a lefty and I've got a right in, I've got a centre forward and I've got a good 10. We all want that. We want our star forwards. And maybe we've, potentially if we win, we've positioned ourselves for that. Would those star forwards see us as a place where they can land and develop their career because we've proven that we can win? And that's the next phase for the group, really, isn't it? The back door seems to be all right. Contracts are signed. maybe another midfielder because we just need to add to that group, a bit of rotation in there, and potentially a bit of rotation at right back.

1:05:57Elliot:And we're there, aren't we? Simple. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, this is the irony, right? Because from afar, you can admire players, but then, you know, you look at guys like Vard Skelia, he's got four league goals this season. So it's like, what would we be saying if that's what we had at home? He's on the bench sometimes. I'd still give it a try. Yeah, I'd still give it a try. He's only played 1 ,200 minutes in the league. look I wanted to ask you quickly about the the final goal the final moments the way we approached the end of the game I thought we were going to get there I thought we were going to find a way to do it I think Calafiore gets turned a little bit on the goal they wind up running through the middle and there's like a 3v2 in the center of the box and they pass it in and it's it's very very painful end of the game coming from a period where I thought maybe we would do it but I actually thought we were kind of helter-skelter at the end of the game.

1:06:46And one thing that frustrated me was just a lack of composure. I made, you know, I took some notes at the end, and the notes were kind of like Martinelli blasts a shot, you know, poor composure. Nani blasts a shot, poor composure. Cal Fiore blasts a shot. It was on the volley, poor composure, like an over. And there was sort of a frantic quality, but I don't think. Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's fair because, you know,

1:07:07Elliot:you know what the result needs to be. this game is but on the back of the other cup file that we lost you're quite right to have a bit concerned but technically it was two different games selection wise it was two different teams health wise in a different place and commitment wise was different there was a little bit of complexity and in the city game that we didn't adjust to in this game I just don't think we took that first goal chance and we just allowed ourselves to get into the magic of the FA Cup washing machine mate and we got spun about a bit I meant to ask you about this, by the way, because one thing that I was annoyed yesterday in the cold light of day, I think this annoyance was stupid, but it's one of those, when we do the instant reaction, if you've lost, everything annoys you, even the things you shouldn't be annoyed about, you know what I mean?

1:07:50I was annoyed that we seem to only take short corners because I'm thinking, are we just using this as a practice? Because we're good at corners and that's a way to get goals and we only took short corners. But having said that, if I want to be honest, most of them were really good and resulted in some really interesting chances. And I did want to get your thoughts just quickly on the short corners because I was finding myself once we fell behind, annoyed that we were doing it, feeling like we're being too cute and practicing against Southampton. but there were some really good moves that resulted in some of our better chances.

1:08:23Elliot:See, I really liked this. I really liked it. And because I wanted to see a little bit more of this, this variation. Variation. So let's think about this now, right? If you're the sport in Lisbon laptop boys, and you're trying to plan for our sort of set pieces, you don't know what the hell we're going to do, right? And by the way, our best set piece takers, none of them played, even traveled. and so we've got ability to go short or to visit long and they know what we're going to do also i think you need these short corner routines because the european referees in the champions league might be a little bit sensitive to what we've done there's a little bit of a narrative about ourselves set pieces and a bit unfairness and pushing and pulling you know it's like in europe the ball's in the air referee fancies blowing you'll just blow and give the free kick to defenders when it's a short corner it's almost like an open play goal and they're less likely to blow and I think it's really good to have that in our pocket to maybe vary and also it keeps the opposition on their toes but also doesn't obsess a referee into thinking we're just a bully boy team that pushes people around and blocks and I think it's really good to keep everybody on their edge and I don't I thought they were fine and I also wasn't concerned because we didn't have Rice or Saka to whip them in and Martin and Elias were going to the back post.

1:09:42Elliot:Odegaard was going a bit more to the front post. And so he wasn't, they're not our best, right? Our best are the two that weren't there. When they're there, they're the best around, you know, and they just come in like bullets. So I think it's really good that we've got these options now. I like it. I mean, it's tough because I still think the set-piece delivery is so good we should stick with it. But having said that, our set-piece delivery is good because of Rice and Saka and neither was on the pitch. and so, you know, I don't mind going another way. You know what I mean by refereeing though, David?

1:10:12Elliot:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do. You leave yourself vulnerable to somebody collapsing and they're just getting a free kick, you know? And I think it's good to have the variation. Especially as the focus has been on how corners are refereed and pulling and holding and grappling and all that. Interestingly, Southampton ranked very, very, very poorly on shots conceded from set pieces. So I wonder if there was something around that. I saw that in Scott's data this week. So just an interesting one. I don't mind the variation. I just still think, look, to the point about being in winning time, I know we're good at in-swingers on Gabby's head.

1:10:43Let's keep doing in-swingers on Gabby's head for the remainder of the season. And if the refs blow up, then so be it. It's not the biggest way that comes through us. I would like one or two on his head, to be fair.

1:10:53Elliot:Yeah. But we didn't seem to do it. Any thoughts on Calafiore? Because I think left back is going to be an interesting one. I don't think Incappier's injury is serious, serious. So he'll be available presumably pretty soon. I think it's safe to say that Myles' performance probably puts him at a gap behind Califiori and Incappier for consideration. So what do you think about the left-back situation? I think Myles had one of those safe games, you know, where you're just getting it and knocking it and moving it, but not really imposing yourself. Again, the under-21 games over the break, his first game was like that, but his second game was not like that.

1:11:31Elliot:he just needs minutes consistently and I'm afraid we've got one of the strongest left side defences in the world and so it's very hard for him let's just watch his pace on that and see what happens and see how his career develops see how his body develops because he's changing all the time see how his game develops positionally because I'm not sure on him yet and that would be interesting to see maybe he needs to go and play and define himself. And that may be a loan. It may be a sell. I don't know. I don't know enough about the situation. But I think all the options are open regarding him earlier.

1:12:09Elliot:And I think the most important thing after a year when you haven't had many Premier League staff, but had a few appearances, is to play. That's number one priority. Whether you play as an Arsenal player somewhere else, or you cut your losses and say, you know what, someone wants to make me play in my position in the Premier League and go somewhere else. yeah look we didn't have good players on the pitch that we should beat southampton and i think we outplayed southampton but i think we made their life a lot easier with errors with missed chances with sloppiness i mean it's easy to look at ben white's error because it was a bad one and he had an off day in almost every phase defensively but like gabby headed the ball straight back onto an onrushing runner mascara was found caught out i think structurally we just had problems in the way we defended in transition.

1:12:55Southampton very rarely played the ball effectively through us, but they did it occasionally. And, you know, it was just very poor from the back five in general. And I will add that I think Kepa maybe could save the first shot. I don't think it's great work. And I don't think he adds a lot of certainty to what we're doing defensively. And I don't think he's another player. You know, if you look at this game and you say, who are the players that might be kind of done being picked by the manager. Kepa, you know, unlikely to get another game unless something happens that we would really not like.

1:13:26I'm going to ask you a bit of a tongue-in-cheek question, but I do want to get your take on this. At 90 minutes when the ref puts six on the board, are you wanting an equalizer to get to extra time or are you saying, you know what, I could just about take the cup exit at this point over 30 minutes more football with Champions League Tuesday in Bournemouth on Saturday. Where was your head at in that moment?

1:13:49Elliot:Yeah, I felt it was a bit of a gut punch in the second one. I didn't think, I thought Southampton played well and they deserved their night in the sun. Do you know what I mean? But at that moment in time, I felt we were, we could have easily scored a one against 2-1. You know, it's just one of those next goal wins. And they got it. When we were trying to get any closer in extra time, I'm thinking, oh, I did time, sorry. I'm thinking, please, please, please score when the game ends you're thinking crikey then you get to fix this a little bit more clarity get down the road and you're thinking okay we need Lisbon now we've made changes we look rested let's focus on Lisbon let's focus on Bournemouth Bournemouth who's going to be like a World Cup court final isn't it Bournemouth and then that rolls into Lisbon again and see where we are and we could literally be heading towards City in the Champions League semi-final and really you know feeling good about ourselves again it can change very very quickly the man see the lost drew at west ham they had two wins and now they look like great those two draws they've had no one remembers i'm looking in the press today and the words around them are positive so many are talking about jerky they're all giving each other love in the press they've created their protective state of positivity and no one cares about the charges anymore no one cares about the 60 points deduction it's all positive positive positive and here we are also nine points clear in the Champions League we lost two games we had two competitions the two competitions that most of us care about but don't really care about we care about the other two you'd think the world is ending and as always there's something in between and there's always another game to fix it there's always another game to fix it and it can just change now do I know it's going to change no I don't but we're desperate to see it change and i want i've got a pretty good feeling that the players are pretty desperate to prove themselves and not be remembered as a team that continually yeah yeah and i mean this is where i think i don't agree with people and even myself i'm going to be a little bit you know i'm going to be a little bit hypocritical in my opinion i'm about to express but i can't help it there is a tendency when a team that hasn't gotten over the line loses assigned to say they just don't have the mentality.

1:16:14They don't have it in them. They don't have the mentality. They're scared of winning. They're scared of the big moments. And look, could that be the case? Sure. But I think it's a lot more likely that what happened in this game is we made seven changes and a lot of players who are simply physically not at their best or not at the level of our regular starters made a few errors and we lost a football match and that can happen. I don't know that it's mentality. I don't know if fear of the moment is why Ben White jumped under a ball. You know, I don't know if that's the explanation. I don't know if fear of the moment is why Odegaard didn't make great contact.

1:16:46I think it's much more likely that a Ben White who's been riddled with injury and hardly played and then played over the international break, an Odegaard who's been in and out of a team for almost two years now, a Gabriel Jesus who suffered multiple serious injuries and is maybe in a different place physically, a Kai Havertz who's only just starting to get back to playing football, a backline that's all changed, a keeper that doesn't have the same quality of a regular keeper, who's an important part of how we build play and how we defend from the back. That is much more likely an explanation to me than the mentality explanation.

1:17:19I realize it's less gratifying because you can't link it all together. You can't say, see, they're doing it to me again. They're doing it to us again. They're letting us down again. Like, by the way, when the game ended, of course I felt that way. You're not a human Arsenal fan. If a tiny bit of you didn't go to that dark place of, oh God, they're going to do it again, aren't they? They're going to fall apart at the end, aren't they? If you didn't have that fear in you, then I don't know how you manage it. I'd love to understand that. I'd love to have a chat with you. But you get a little distance from it and you say, is that really what's happening?

1:17:51Is that really what's happening? Or did we have a cup tie against a very good team and our keeper chucked one in and that decided the game? And then we had another cup tie with an all-change team with a lot of physically past-it players and we made some mistakes. I mean, you can look at it a number of different ways. I think, obviously, based on what happens against sporting and what happens against Bournemouth is going to confirm a lot of people's fears or make you realize that those fears weren't warranted. What I think is also happening, just to sort of finish this rant a bit, I think there's this weird analytical dichotomy going on where I think everybody watching can see we're not quite at our imperious best and we haven't been for a while.

1:18:25But people also acknowledge, do I really want to get stuck into a team that could wind up winning a historic trophy this season? Do I really want to kick the crap out of the players who are about to give us our first title in 22 years and potentially our first champions league ever no i don't want to do that and so you're stuck between two stalls the one where you want to say honestly i am a little concerned about the performances but the other one where you want to back the the boys that are about to maybe give you joy you haven't had in decades supporting this club and i do think clive if we're being honest both sides of your brain are right it is entirely fair to see how we've been playing and have some concerns that you should articulate feel comfortable articulating, but also not wanting to get stuck into a team that may be on the precipice of delivering something historic.

1:19:08Elliot:Yeah, you're quite entitled to have concerns. Mate, do you remember the podcast after Forrest? And when we drew Forrest away, I was really concerned. I felt there was two points there that we didn't take. We didn't have the right attitude and we drew a game against a team that was not in the best of form at that period of time and since lost a major for that period. So I was fuming at that game, absolutely fuming. You know, a few in Favilla are away. These things stay around in you. It's okay to have concerns. I do think, though, when we have them concerns, you have to remember there have been other days that we've really celebrated with gusto.

1:19:45Elliot:So let's not blanket concern everything, because we end up doing exactly what everyone thinks we're going to do, which is turn in on ourselves and create an atmosphere which is not prime for success. and so I have these concerns but I'm trying to keep them quiet do you see what I mean? just between you and me Clive I have these concerns but I'm not going to shout them to the rooftop and slaughter somebody who I want to go and play Lisbon on Tuesday night and do the business I'm not going to do that I'm going to find a way to constructively talk about the game without killing an individual because of a personal bias or feeling that you have.

1:20:28Elliot:I don't think that's right. I really don't. But that's me, right? That's me. Well, let's talk about Mikel. Before we get out of here, super quick, we're going to do a full proper sporting preview with the sporting expert over on Patreon, but I do want to just get your thoughts on the thing you love talking about, lineups. We don't know who's fit. We really don't know. But assuming they're all fit, just for a second, is the first choice sort of set and is it and let me call it out raya timber saliba gabby califiori and that maybe is just related to incappia's fitness but maybe it's incappia depending on who's fit zuby rice i think odegaard in this scenario but i'd be curious if you think it'd be kai and then saka yokores and leo i don't think even if you want to see kai up front and i do i don't think there's a world where michael doesn't give jokras to start back in lisbon so is that sort of how you see it as well yeah i do um i do yeah i do um european games are different um let's see what we do on the left hand side i'm not sure yet um the european games are different they're a little bit slower they're a bit more technical you've got to have on-ball ability you got to have that and with that group we have that you know particularly in fullback areas Supermendy looked a bit quiet when he came on I'm a huge fan of him as you know and again he's had two weeks off he only played like 12 minutes for Spain but he looked like he played 120 minutes in that game he just didn't quite look himself again was he protecting himself I don't know so yeah let's see we've got enough on ball ability when we have our right winger there who we can go to and we have our centre forward there who we can go to we have direction so when we need to go along we can go or we need to play we can play and um so europe is different compared to bournemouth now bournemouth now i don't think i will start in lisbon but at the emirates i want him i want him to i want him to play you know i want him to play i don't mind where i just want him to play because we need to dominate their box you know and that's a different game 12 30 dominate their box playing areas press them don't let them press us playing their areas and really have some box presence you know and um ability to cross and to score.

1:22:52Elliot:You know, that's what we need to do. So this has probably been planned out, just where Odegaard came off. And you know what? You want your ball players in Europe, right? It's not so physical. You want your ball players who can protect it and move it. There's always a game for a certain player. Now, Man City away now, maybe we have a different discussion about what type of player that we have in that position. And I have a different view of, that's another game, another day. You know? the reason why A.S.A. has that calf injury because he played too many minutes because Odegaard was injured. We need them both.

1:23:25Elliot:We need them both. And they'll not pick the right horse for the right course. Yeah, and one thing that could be interesting about Odegaard being back and Kai being back, there are a lot of ways in which we've progressed now to being a different team with Eza in there, with Jokres in there. One thing that I loved about that, Clive, that group, our out-of-possession pressing structure when it was Kai and Odegaard up top is probably the best we've been at that. And if Mikel wants to be a pressing team, if he wants that to be our identity, I still think that there's going to be opportunities for him to play those two in the top of a 4-4-2 out of possession and let them go orchestrate the press.

1:24:03So we'll just see.

1:24:04Elliot:Long time ago. Yeah. Yeah, this is very nostalgic of you. That's fair. This is where I'm going. This is it. We are back to new school versus old school, nostalgia wise january 24 to may 24 it's a long time ago isn't a long time ago we're in 2026 now you know and there's a new there's a new broom in town you're saying i'm not 37 anymore and so let's see what we do but the fortunate thing with five sides we can do both and let's see i do think that there was a bit of a i i think the southampton lineup was a little of Mikel saying, how few players can I start who I plan to start in Lisbon? And like, I'll let Gabby and Saliba share the game.

1:24:50Everybody else who's starting, I don't plan to start other than Odegaard, but I'm only going to give him an hour so he's ready for midweek. This was the taxi way to get onto the runway of sporting Lisbon and Bournemouth, which are the games that will determine how we rewrite the story of the cup ties. But the domestic cups are done now. And let's say it like it is. It means that the players know they have to deliver one of these other two things. I think they can. And where the league's concerned, I still think they will. But they have to do it. So we'll have our sporting preview on Patreon. So leave a 50s of code.

1:25:26If you want to give, we would love to have you give. And remember, Sam McFarlane's going to... See, I keep doing this, right? So I keep confusing... Because Sean McFarlane is going to match a$15 ,000 contribution. Sam Fonseca is going to do the sporting analysis or maybe we'll swap them up and see if Sam Fonseca wants to get 15 ,000 Sean wants to do the sporting preview I am going to go out on a limb and say probably not so we should leave it there uh this was an interesting one I think we went very big picture and I'll be curious to hear what you think of how we're thinking about things but it all kicks off now uh every three days with big things on the line and really really love that you're along for the ride with us whether you agree with what we say or don't agree we appreciate you for uh you know what you do for these children when you give and what you do for us being an enriching part of our life.

1:26:15So thank you for that, Clive. Thanks. Thank you very much. It's winning time, mate. This is it. Yeah. Yeah. There'll be no more hand-waving anything after this. It all matters from here. So let's bring our best. We love you. And we will talk to you after Arsenal's Head Supporting.

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