Finally It’s Time to Talk Transfers

30:46Yeah, it's definitely a delicate balance. I guess I'd count it when you were going through those new signings. When it came down to it, how many of them started the Champions League final? Yeah, I mean, and Kappie is the only one here, right? Yeah. And he might not have had Calafiore. Yeah, Maduweke, you know, as a... But they allowed us to win the league because they had to play a lot more minutes maybe than we even anticipated. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that tells you a lot. And I also think Hinkapie played probably just because he's a better defender in the most traditional sense than Calafiore because of the opponent we were playing.

31:23If we had like Inter Milan or Borussia Dortmund, I still reckon Calafiore would have played. Hard to know only because I think Mikel said that Cal Fury had picked up some kind of knock just before the final. Yeah, which is not that surprising, is it? Not that surprising. So there is that kind of context to it. My view on the squad is I don't think very much needs to be done because I think the depth is there. There's not a load of players that I'm desperate to lose. um you know i think someone like nor guard could go and we don't even have to replace him really what i'm looking at is one or two like just really quality additions i don't think we need to do the kind of the floor stuff anymore unless people go so for me it kind of feels like yeah let's move one of martinelli or trossard on let the market dictate if there's a good offer for either of them use that money and try and get that really ceiling raising attacker everywhere else I look I'm not in a mad rush to do anything to be honest like I think the players it's especially in the back half of the team I think the players we have really good I think you know there's some really good backups there as well like Mascara and Hincapier and Calafuri and you know I think we've got good depth in those positions you know I'm not saying do absolutely nothing but that's not the bit I'm concerned about it it kind of reminds me a bit of when we won the league in 2002 and we had a really really good squad we were in good contract positions still good age and essentially all we really did was add Gilberto Silva and that was like because we'd gone through the season before we kind of sometimes had Ray Parler sometimes had Gilles Grimondi and it was like they're both quite good but let's go and get the guy who's just won the world cup and just play him all the time like that's what this feels like to me it's it's almost like that one like starting 11 quality player who probably will be a left winger I would imagine unless we do something like let's commit to Ezzer as our left winger and maybe then Morgan Rodgers is the answer in a more central position I don't know but it just it feels to me like um we don't need to do a lot but what we do need to do does feel like it has to be quite big, if that makes sense.

33:54It's evolution, not revolution. Yeah. But the hard part is I think we have been a club traditionally for years now that is a bit scared to move players on while they still have value and really looks to sell when it's become abundantly clear we're ready to move on from that player, which is why our record sale is still Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain. um you know are people ready to sell a gabriel martinelli yeah are people ready to sell a martin you know i mean probably are with martinelli but like another one's ethan right like you know again that feels like it could happen and that should be happening a very big price given his his age and his potential.

34:38So this is the hard part. I think finding the balance between not being scared to start to evolve beyond certain players, but also not evolving beyond players who are quite important and becoming something where you're, you can't predict as cleanly what the range of outcomes are. But I, I think there's a really important point buried in all this, which is the ceiling raisers clearly, I think if you asked everybody what do we need to do, what's the biggest thing we need to do? Ceiling raiser and attack. But if you ask everybody who that player is, very hard to answer. You know what that proves?

35:19Proves that we're actually very, very good, aren't we? Because I bet if you asked a lot of clubs fans who they should sign this summer, they could rattle off 20 players they should sign. Harder to do for Arsenal, isn't it? Because there just aren't that many players that improve us. and as it turns out if I say to you you can have any left wide player you want you know you probably name one or two that aren't realistic like a Kvitsch fired Skellia where again I don't think it's realistic and beyond that I don't think there's going to be a lot of clear answers and it reminds me a little of last summer when we were in the striker market and I was on this podcast saying maybe it's Sesko maybe it's Jokeres maybe it's someone else but I don't know who and there isn't a clear answer and we had to go for one and we went for Yolkoresh and your mileage may vary on whether we went for the right guy.

36:05It was clearly an important part of us winning the league but I think we're right back in that sort of situation where I think everybody agrees a star left wide attacking player would be a great addition but I don't think there's a lot of agreement on who that player is and unless you think we're going to get Vinny Jr. or Farriskelia, you're into the realm of rolling the dice and you're probably talking about rolling the dice on a player like a Morgan Rogers. And I want to talk about Morgan Rogers because I think this is a fascinating signing that I suspect may happen. I think this is one that looks like it could happen.

36:37So I want to talk about it. But I think that is a natural moment for those of you who are desperate to understand what brands you need in your life to find out what brands you need in your life. And it gives me the opportunity to say, this episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. BetterHelp is therapy. And for some, summer is their favorite season. Travel picks up, kids are out of school, adventure in the focus, World Cup. For others, juggling it can be tough and can lead to overwhelm and counting down the minutes until the kids are back in school and feeling that there's too much to take care of. And maybe you worry you're wasting summer.

37:14I know sometimes I feel like, you know, I'm working, I've got the windows closed so that the lights on the podcast look right. And you know, there's only so much you can do with the face that I've got. But you know, the beauty filters and the lights, you got to get it all going. And then you say, gosh, should I be outside? Should I be enjoying the summer more? Should I be with the kids more? Therapy can help you unpack that stuff. It can help better understand your needs, prioritize set boundaries and just get you more focused on the things that matter. I think there are so many distractions in life and the digital life we live now creates endless distractions.

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38:47I don't want to know any of that. And that's why Shopify gives you sort of that fortune 500 looking website because fortune 500 companies use Shopify as the backbone of their e-commerce, but simple enough where I can write the description of my product, set a price, upload a picture and be done. That's what you can do with Shopify. The perfect way to get the thing you make into the world, start your business now in 2026, stop waiting and start selling with Shopify. Sign up for your$1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com slash arsenal vision go to shopify.com slash arsenal vision that's shopify.com slash arsenal vision here your first cha-ching this new year with shopify by your side tim is that enough indeed uh okay morgan rogers tim this is a really really fun one because it's it's got all the things that make for an exciting debate about a player he's gonna be expensive his talent jumps off the screen in the comps, in the videos.

39:42He's a moments player that lights up the screen. The data just isn't really there, but does the data matter when the talent is that explosive and that evident from the video? And also, what the heck position does he play for Arsenal? So it's got all the things we love to create a really exciting debate. I tend to align with the idea that the data should guide you to the right candidates to bring in, except where Morgan Rogers is concerned, because I do think the talent is quite evident and extraordinary. So what do you think about our approach for Morgan Rogers and what role he might play for Arsenal?

40:22Yeah, so I really like the player. I'm kind of with you. I especially think with attackers, Because when they're under a certain age, usually the end product comes a little bit later, if you know what I mean. When the raw ingredients are there, usually around 23 or so. Is he 22, 23? I will double check that because I think Morgan Rogers is 23? Usually around that age that the end product. 23. Yep. But he will be 24 next season. So is he at the age group? I'm just kidding. coming into his prime. It's more like, you know, I guess level of M product, like how, you know, I believe he's a historic XG over performer, which, you know, usually when that's historic, that's a bit like Leo Trossard.

41:12Leo Trossard, when we bought him historic XG over performer, and that's pretty much held during his time at Arsenal. It feels very Trossard to me, actually. It feels very long-term Trossard replacement, if that makes sense, because he does a lot of the same things. So, for example, if he was to play from the left, which he might, he does that kind of coming in field and getting shots off. And it feels a bit like that to me. I'm not super detailed on the player, but he feels quite Trossardian. but with the side of Eza as well like that kind of shots from the edge of the area thing and I like I really really like the player I just wonder where exactly he fits in particularly when we have Eza he feels quite similar so does that suggest that one of them is going to be like you know the left winger and Arteta wants a left winger that comes inside quite a lot which we have seen a lot of.

42:19When Eza played there, he did that. When Trossard played there, he did that. It's really only Martinelli that doesn't, that does that more kind of stretching role. So for me, I think you're right. I think it's intriguing because I really like the player. But at the same time, it's like, do we not essentially already have this player? So it says something really fascinating to me about the potential direction because he's quite low touch, but quite high you know he takes a lot of shots right but which kind of good but at the same time like I feel like we maybe already have that profile or profiles and I guess I was looking more at the technical side at the kind of you know the the passing as it were really so um um yeah i i i find it really intriguing i find it really intriguing because i can't entirely work out where this fits in but at the same time that that means i'd have to do that really weird thing of just waiting and seeing um which in itself can be quite exciting on the other hand it can can kind of create doubt as well and and by the way i do think the jury is still out on whether as a has really been a successful signing um so far i still i still think the jury is out there Like if you subtract the games against Spurs, it's like two goals and two assists.

43:44They were winning goals, to be fair, Palace and Newcastle. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like high value goals. That's kind of fair. No, I agree. I mean, I think Ezza is a great example, though, of when you're a good team, you don't bring in players to be saviors. You bring in players to help you run the course. and if you don't have Ezza and you don't have Odegaard, which was the case for part of the season, what do you have at that point and what does that give you? And so, you know, this is what's hard. Finding players who can keep you at your level, I think is achievable. Finding players that can raise your level is difficult when the team is this good.

44:24Declan Rice is a great example of a player who transformed our level, right? Declan Rice changed us. I mean, if you said to me, I could have anything in the market this summer. I could have anything. I could have my wish. You know what I'd wish? Bakayo Saka back to his absolute fit best. Because an elite fit Bakayo Saka is better than any player we're going to sign. Right? I mean, how do you raise your ceiling? You get Bakayo Saka at his best. That raises your ceiling. There isn't another player in the market like that. Billy Carpenter, who writes great articles about Arsenal and about scouting, and is quite data-centric, had a great meme related to Morgan Rodgers.

45:00so it's ironic because I just reread 1984 which is a great book by George Orwell and there is a a quote from that book that is constantly brought back out which says quote the party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears it was their final most essential command and Billy Carpenter posted that but with one word crossed out and said the spreadsheet merchants told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears it was their final most essential command and he said that quote, evaluating Morgan Rodgers. In other words, your eyes tell you what this player has. The spreadsheet tells you another story.

45:36And I will say this. I think Arsenal have a style that is a bit different from some other elite teams. And Morgan Rodgers is not going to change that. And what I mean is, there is no Vatina in this market. Morgan Rodgers is not going to play 120 passes in a game at 94%. He's not going to do that. Maybe we thought Martin Zubomendi would do that. That's not really the player he was. And when we scouted him last summer, I think we saw that quite clearly. And that was in the data as well. Arsenal are going to be a different style of team. But Morgan Rodgers, to me, elevates the ceiling of the style we employ.

46:10He is physically at the peak of the sport. He can run through in a way where he cannot be stopped. He can drive pass players. He is a moments player. He can turn those transition opportunities when we regain possession into goals by driving powerfully through that broken line and into the box to score goals. He can play inside left and get past players. I think he could be a Kvaretskelye type player. He is as powerful. He is as direct. He is as strong a finisher. I think he can play in midfield, but he is not a passer and he will not be a passer. That is not who he's going to be. He is not going to step into Arsenal and help us keep 50 % possession against a PSG.

46:53But could he have played that Champions League final and helped us turn a ball recovery into a goal? I think he could have. And I think we are a team that has to get better in our transition moments. In Ezzo, we have a player who likes to drop into pockets and facilitate. In Rodgers, you have a guy who likes to devastate when the ball turns over. And I do think we need to be more devastating and more clinical with what we do when the ball turns over. You know what? There's going to be some people that say, We need more passers. We need a Jorginho, right? We need that player. We need a Vitinha.

47:20But that is not the team we've built, and that is not who we are. We don't have... You know who our Vitinha is? It's William Saliba. When we play low blocks, William Saliba plays 120 passes at 94 % from the edge of the final third. That's who does it. You know? Or a fullback steps in and does it. A Durian Timber does it, or a Cal Fiore does it. So I don't think we're going to scale this mountain with this manager, with this squad, by trying to find 130 pass type midfielder who gives us the ability to have 60 % of the ball against PSG. I think we are going to scale the mountaintop by leaning into what we do, devastation in transition, powerful runners, physical dominance, an athleticism that can't be competed with, and the ability to finish in those moments, which hasn't always been there.

48:05And that's where I think Rodgers gives us something we don't have. So for me, Tim, this is Arsenal leaning into who we are and elevating the ceiling of who we are rather than trying to evolve into something we just have typically not been. Yeah, that's a really interesting way of looking at it. I hadn't quite considered. And I guess that's what most teams do, right? They, like I think about, I mean, occasionally they don't. I'm trying to think of examples like I'm looking at Klopp's Liverpool and who did they buy in midfield, for example? they bought like milner and henderson and fabinho because they wanted running power and they were like man we're buying running power until they tried to change a little bit with tiago alcantara yeah and that maybe was variable in terms of success but then maybe hard to judge because fitness was such a concern with him i think at his best he was one of the best midfielders in world football at his time but it was a complete change in profile certainly yeah and when man city changed like they really changed right they went like harlan donnarumma you know four center backs like they overhauled everything they didn't try to bring in a player that slightly changed the chemistry or the calculus they changed the whole team basically when that time came so yeah i that's that's convincing um i guess i think also like arsenal haven't have arsenal have problems with low blocks i'm not not really when you look at like the league and how it's turned out for us it's not the low blocks really that have been the big problem we haven't been able to beat the big teams what we basically won the league by doing is beating up on everyone else there have been exceptions the nil nil away at forest and and stuff like that um i guess the home draw against Liverpool was a kind of low block mid block situation but that's not generally where we've really struggled what what we haven't done is put Man City Liverpool to the sword we lost once to Man United like and I guess finding another way um other than like set pieces I guess to to break a game open because we do dominate possession in the vast majority of games that we play so finding other solutions and and I think there is something to be said for having greater shooting power as well and I think that is you know there's been a lot of discussion around set pieces this season around the Premier League not just around Arsenal but I think the number of long shots is beginning to creep up and I've said this before that I think that it will creep up even more as teams begin to realize everyone's really good at playing a low block in the Premier league now so if we you know like united and bumo and kunya i always said i liked those signings for united because first of all i felt there was logic in fixing their attack first because that was the thing that was lower mid table for them but having that kind of devastation shooting power i i think if you're you know starting to build an attack that's a good first principle to go for so yeah Yeah, I think there's a lot to that.

51:27I'd still just be intrigued about the position, though, because surely if Arsenal sign Morgan Rodgers, either him or Eza's going to go to the left, surely.

51:40Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I really don't. You know, I had the presumption that we signed Eza to kind of replace Leo's role to play inside left. I thought that's what would happen and that our midfield would be Zubamendi, Rice, and Odegaard. And Eze would play off the left. Now, to be fair, that may have been the plan. Odegaard got injured almost as soon as Eze got there. And so Eze had to play midfield. And then because he was playing midfield, Leo was playing and Leo played well. So Leo kept the left side position. So there's a sliding doors moment where Odegaard doesn't get injured to start last season as Eze is our left side of player.

52:19I don't know. I'm doing the same sort of thing in my mind with Rodgers, which is I'm giving Rodgers Leo's role. I'm moving Leo and Martinelli on in some respect, you know, and I'm playing Rodgers inside left. I don't know that that's the case. Maybe Ezzet is going to finally go and play inside left and Rodgers is going to play in midfield with Rice and Odegaard or Rice and Zubamendi or Rice and Myles Lewis-Skelly, who now, of course, is a major consideration for that position. And for me, I'd love to see a midfield where Myles Lewis-Skelly is the first one who gets a shot at being a, and Clive would roll his eyes at me, a first 11 player next season, right?

52:54Rice and Miles, and then pick your third. Odegaard, Ezza, Rodgers. The thing with Rodgers is I just think if you want a pass master, if your version of how Arsenal gets better is a pass master in midfield, you don't want Morgan Rodgers in midfield. But I think you do get a lot of flexibility playing him inside left, playing him midfield. The other thing is we are seeing Tim, and not to be a hipster, but like positions are becoming less relevant because where does Calafiori play when he plays, right? In our 4-4-2 out of possession, he's on the left, but in possession, he's anywhere else, right?

53:30I mean, where Morgan Rodgers is going to play out of possession might be left defensively. Where he plays when we're in possession, who the heck knows? He may have a freer role to go find the places to influence the game, much in the way Leo does, by the way, because Leo is not hugging the touchline. So I don't know, but I guess what I would say is, do you see him as a ceiling raiser? Because for me, I think there is something to be said in modern football for going and getting players who have an elite talent that is unmatched in world football and buying them and seeing what you can do with them.

54:04We did that with Declan Rice. There were questions about his progressive passing and this, that. You know what? Declan Rice clearly physically had some elite traits and he's taken us to the Premier League title along with some other elite players as well. I think Morgan Rodgers running power, box efficiency, just raw athleticism through the middle third of the pitch is a talent you just invest in. You know what I'm starting to think that that's what you do in football. It's funny, in the NFL, they have something called a combine. I know when people love when I make American sports analogies, but we do know that Mikel is very invested in learning about American sports and talking to the coaches of the other Cronky teams.

54:43And he's very close to the coach of the Rams. What the combine is, they literally measure athletes. They measure the size of their hands. They measure their vertical leap, their, what they call a three cone, right? Their agility, their sprint speed. And I do think that there's something about that maybe that can translate to football in the sense that if you can find a player that has a couple of elite traits and you invest in those elite traits and find a way to platform those elite traits, you can build a hell of a team, right? So if someone is an elite dribbler or someone is an elite runner, right?

55:15Someone is elite at things. You can invest in those traits. And I think Morgan Rogers has enough elite physical attributes and certainly box efficiency that if you invest in that, I think it raises our ceiling. I think there's ways to use that to raise our ceiling. Yeah, yeah. If you kind of lean into the attributes and the areas, and obviously a big part of that though is making sure there is an overlap, that they're not doing something that you already got or in an area where you've already got it. But I'm with you largely like, yeah, all right, Califuri is the left back, but is he really that's just like that's where he starts from but then there are other players in the team who are by design have to be a bit more kind of positionally disciplined for it all to all to work so but I'm with you in the respect that I think also when you look at the way Rogers has played for Villa and I think I'm not mistaken here because Emery does that kind of 4-2-2-2 thing where it kind of looks like a 4-3-3, but one of the wide players plays as a second striker.

56:16The other one comes in as a wide 10. And I think Rodgers has been the one kind of coming in from the left as a wide 10 and whoever they have on the right kind of comes in as the second striker alongside Oli Watkins, who kind of does that quite central thing. And also, you could argue that Arsenal do need greater centrality, that a lot of our good players like to go out wide and that we do need. And that is a real use Ezzer has had as well when he's played centrally as having someone who stands quite centrally. And when you say leaning into attributes as well, I mean, you cite Rice, I think Raya as well in terms of what we wanted from a goalkeeper.

56:58It was like, this guy is like an 11th midfielder and he really catches the ball under pressure. So like he's basically, he's your pressure valve goalkeeper. He takes crosses out the air. He'll take the ball off you if you're being pressed. And that's just a massive part of what we wanted and a massive part of what fits for us. But I'd say possibly the biggest example of that's Leo Trossard. Leo Trossard didn't play on the left wing that much for Brighton. He played all over the place. He played right wing back for them quite a lot. He played false nine. They played him all over the place. And in effect, we've kind of, he comes up, not right wing back, but he comes up in all those areas, but we just kind of nominally stick him on the left and then let him do the things he's good at, come in field, take the ball under pressure, obviously brilliant finisher.

57:52and we've moved the emphasis onto what can we do to make sure he gets in those positions to do the things that he's good at. And you're right. I think quite often you buy the quality or the attributes and you kind of work the rest out a little bit later. And things, I mean, they don't always, that's the thing, that's the kind of risk or the downside. I imagine when Liverpool bought Verts, for example, They probably thought, well, he's a little bit lightweight maybe. And actually, where do we really play him? And have they really solved that? I don't think that they have. But at the same time, sometimes things can just fall into place.

58:35I'm sure that was the case with Trossard on the left. Even Eza playing centrally, I'm with you. Probably not what we intended. Rice, I think we bought him thinking he'd play more sixth than eight and he hasn't. Havertz. I'm sure we bought him thinking he'd play more in midfield than he does up front. And that's not, we've rolled with the punches on that. I think, I guess Havertz is another quite good example of that, isn't it? Like we bought attributes for an area and actually it doesn't hugely matter whether he's playing in midfield or up front. Like he kind of does the same things yeah i i have to say like i i think the the buying in the premier league just gives me less anxiety in in general too like if you look at victor yorkrist i think i think it's a great example with victor yorkrist there was a debate before we signed him is he talented enough for this level you saw what he did in Portugal but there was a question of like can he do it at this level and as it turns out Victor Yocres had a great season for us I think in many respects but if you look at where he had his his best impact it probably was the lower level of games right I don't know that he necessarily was able to influence the biggest games and the highest level games and that's fine you need players obviously that can help you win the easier games that in sometimes that's that's been a challenge for us.

1:00:01But I don't have any question about whether Morgan Rogers has the talent level to perform at Premier League level because I've watched him do it. Now, I do think you can run into an issue when you buy XG over performers and you buy moments players and you buy players that have great YouTube comps that you wind up with an EZA problem. And what I mean by an EZA problem is when they're on it, hoo boy, look out. you know they get a hat trick in a derby when they're not you're kind of saying where is he what's he doing you know and if you wind up with too many moments players you know the counter argument to my idea that we don't need a 120 pass guy or whatever is you wind up with a lot of guys who have the ability on their day to turn a game but also have the ability to be passengers to be too peripheral and if you have too many moments players maybe you just too many games you don't control and you're trying to win games again at the margin.

1:00:53And I do think winning games at the margins has been an issue for Arsenal where at least this season in particular, games were tighter than we would have liked them to be. So the downside with Rodgers, if we're going to present the upside, I think the downside is he's not as good on the ball in passing moves, that he can influence games in transition and when he can run it players. But in settled possession, maybe he struggles to influence the game and in games where we're pushed back, he's not somebody who can help you play out of the pressure. That running through the midfield sounds great if you're trying to do it against a Fulham, but if you're trying to do it against a PSG or a Bayern, that's a lot harder to do.

1:01:33And obviously that's not something that we can easily project, but I think that that would be the downside if you were trying to pick a downside. That would probably be what it was. I don't know. It's about the balance, right? I think that's what we're talking about. I think we're talking about like we bought some of those types of players maybe last summer. And so then there's the question of, okay, we just kind of adding what we already added last summer. Is it because we're convinced that the talent is so much better than it was last summer that maybe that doesn't matter? I think though, like I don't think anyone's quibbling with like the talent or ability of the player.

1:02:15I think there is just that how does it all fit together question. And that's one of the things we don't really know yet. We just don't know. We're going to find out along the way. Okay, so then we'll set that aside for the time being. We'll do a scouting video on Morgan Rodgers. But I think as a final point then, we are linked with some young players. We could do this really quickly, Manga and Mbemba. I mean, this just seems smart to me. One of the best buys we've made in the Arteta era is Gabriel Martinelli. Was Gabriel Martinelli an Arteta era? Just before. Just before, yeah. It's Libra as well.

1:02:52Yep, yep. I mean, investing in young talent. Two things that are much maligned and correctly maligned, I must say, like previous kind of administration, I don't know if that's the right word, did that actually made a very big difference for us going forward. Yeah, really good decisions. And I think if you want to stay at the top level, you need to invest in now, but I don't think you can ever stop investing in young talent. And the challenge, and this is where I think the one advantage worse teams have over better teams is they have minutes to give, right? So if you buy a Jeremy Monger, you buy an Emmanuel Mbemba, you can put him in the team because the stakes are lower and your players are worse, right?

1:03:36Gabriel Martinelli could play because we just weren't very good at the time, right? William Saliba was needed because we were playing Pablo Marie and Sokratis and Mustafi and like, please help me. It's like the candles, the drill thing, right? Like$5 ,200 a month on candles. Someone who's good at the economy, help me, my family is starving. Like, yeah, it's easier. When you're very, very good, where does Nimbamba get into this team as a defender in a team full of star defenders, right? Where does Jeremy Manga get into this team? But I think you have to create a path for those players in League Cup, in FA Cup, where you have to loan them out.

1:04:11We'll see what happens, but I think we can both get behind the idea of doing that. In terms of outgoings, though, this is the one last point I wanted to finish on. you mentioned when airy i briefly mentioned martin odegaard like where do you stand on how we how we reshape this squad from an outgoing standpoint in terms of would you lean towards stability towards not letting key pieces go do you think it is time to start to evolve beyond certain players i mean how are how are you thinking about the outgoing portion of this project I personally, I'm still leaning a bit more towards stability, to be honest.

1:04:55I think there's some, because like I said, I don't think we need a lot coming in, which means we shouldn't need a lot going out either. Like I kind of think, yeah, Kepa might want to go and we might have to go and buy another backup goalkeeper, whatever, Norgaard. If he wasn't retired already, I think Lewis Skelly's done that and potentially saved us some money because that's another area I might have looked at a month or two ago as somewhere where we would spend reasonably sizably. And then, look, I think we all know that Martinelli and Trossard, if we'd had a good offer last summer, probably would have gone.

1:05:36And I suspect that when we spent the money on Ezzer, they were still thinking that that might happen because the whole Trossard thing, the reporting around that, us kind of upping his salary, that report came out quite early in the summer but it didn't actually happen until quite late in the summer which kind of makes me think well what was the delay and what's the delay about we'll do that but we're just going to check that like buy Munich don't offer us 30 35 million pounds first so you know um I I think either one of those kind of left wingers are probably susceptible if an offer comes in and like I say I kind of think the same about Nuaneri which would really be a shame but I just don't see a world in which um I stand to be proven wrong about this I don't really see a world where Saka, Dalman and Nguyen-Ari can all be in the squad um to be honest and it might be a painful one it might be like uh you know Chelsea letting go of De Bruyne or Salah type thing it might be one of those that in five years everyone goes why did you do that and um we'll have Max Dalman and he'll have won the Ballon d 'Or and we'll say that's why basically.

1:06:45But, you know, and like I said, we'll be seeing that next May, by the way. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like for someone like Trossard, given his age, don't imagine we'd get an awful lot. Martinelli, don't know. Really, that feels a bit more variable. If we were to sell someone like Ethan, I would expect quite a lot of money for that, given the guy's age and maybe a sell-on or an option or something like that. Yeah, I mean, you want to bring in all these players, but like you bring in Morgan Rodgers, maybe you bring in a junior Kruppi. All of a sudden, you have to start to make some room. I think one thing is because we've been so injury prone and because football is becoming so attritional, maybe our concept of squads has to be updated to worry less about pathways because injuries make pathways, right?

1:07:37So Eza played a lot because Odegaard was injured a lot. And Nani played a lot because Saka was injured a lot. And even if you don't get injured, Zubemendi didn't get injured, but not getting injured got very tired. Yeah, he just wore out. So maybe it is the case. And maybe PSG are showing way. I mean, you're never going to win the Premier League like PSG win the French League where your star players play 1 ,000 minutes or less. but maybe it is the case where you build a squad and you're clear with your players like you're going to play largely in the champions league that's the role i see for you and you'll be more of a rotational option in the in the league and hey you're going to be our league you're going to start a lot of league minutes for us but i'm going to rest you in midweek games and you really manage two squads that may be what you have to do in modern football and you know whether you can do that from a salary, you know, a wage standpoint, we'll have to see.

1:08:33I think that I can't conceive of a world where we move Martin Odegaard on this summer. Like, and I, I'm not saying we couldn't survive without him. I look at Mikel and Odegaard and the way they were palling around at the parade and, you know, the scenes of their celebrations together. I think that the relationship is still strong. I still think he's an important part of this team. And I think that if he can evolve into a role where he is not captain, starts every game, plays every minute, and plays every minute where he has to run the team, then I think he is such a valuable piece. But that's up to Martin Odegaard to decide if he wants to do.

1:09:12I do think if you start to look at midfield and say, well, if there's a Fit Marino and there's Zubomendi and Miles is in the equation now and Max is in the equation, Saka might play in midfield and Morgan Rodgers is coming in and Ezra's coming in as well. And Kai sometimes plays in midfield. You do start to look at that group and say, it's a lot of players. It's a lot of players, a lot of overlapping profiles. Where can we best invest our wages and invest our minutes? But I still come back to the idea that we are best if Odegaard is in the group, because I think he gives us some qualities that maybe aren't well represented by some of the others.

1:09:48I think in terms of those high possession games, he's probably best at that is my thought. I still think he has a great relationship with Kai and I still think Kai this is my opinion no one has to agree with it I think Kai's our best striker I think we're best with Kai I think for big games he's still our best player and we've forgotten it a little bit because of injury which again availability is an important ability the left side I think we're all going to come back to this the left side feels where the evolution could happen and Martinelli is a lovely player who I feel great affection for but I think if we're being honest his development has stalled somewhat He scored in the league phase of the Champions League quite a bit this season, and that was valuable.

1:10:26Didn't provide much or anything really in the league or much in the later stages of the Champions League. Leo is phenomenal. Has been one of the best buys of the Arteta era, pound for pound. But he's getting to that age where you'd like him to be a complimentary player, not a first name on the team sheet type player. So I think if you can get good money for Martinelli, improving on the left is a great opportunity. and I still think striker is an area where the future is an open question and I think junior Kruppi is the kind of talent that again young but expensive but ready you invest in that I think if you get Kruppi and Rodgers that is ceiling raising that is talent that raises the ceiling without disrupting the foundation so those are two players we'll probably be talking about a bit I know PSG are interested in Kruppi but you know we'll just have to see where he wants to apply his trade you You can't really compete with the wages they can offer, but we could certainly compete with the level of football he would be playing most of the season.

1:11:20So unless you got anything else, Tim, I think that's sort of a good setup for the window and what we need to do. And we'll be doing scouting videos on all these players and talking about them probably throughout the summer and following the highs and lows of the ridiculous way that transfers are reported. Agreed and co-signed. Done. And I will say, you know, I appreciate everybody listening to our first section of this pod where we, I think, attempted to cover topics that are relevant in the World Cup in the best way we are able to. And I know some of you will feel that it was covered in a way that you don't agree with.

1:11:49And we are always open to hearing that disagreement if you can do it civilly. So if you want to send a message and say, hey, I disagreed and here's why, always happy to take it on board because that's the beautiful thing about this community. By and large, for the most part, we all communicate with each other in a really considerate and thoughtful way. And I appreciate that tremendously. So thank you for that. Okay, Tim, thanks. My pleasure as always. My name is Elliot Smith. We love you. And we will talk to you after Arsenal 10. Transformation.