Great Goals and a Jesus Appearance in Christmassy Bruges

0:16It's Rice. What a goal! Declan Rice with an absolute rocket with a free kick. Arsenal lead 1-0. He's cut inside. Saka! Sublime finish. He's back with a bang. with Bukai Saka 1-0. Unbelievable. City focused on Christmas spirit. Jesus makes an appearance. This is the Arsenal Vision Postmates Podcast. My name's Eli Spook, Blackman, Nick Tanner. Hello, everybody. I'm actually not on this podcast, but I did want to say hello to you. Paul and Clive will be doing the podcast because the internet Wi-Fi in my Bruges hotel is mixed, to say the least. And having an interrupted stop-start podcast probably wouldn't be the best thing.

0:55We want to get it out to you as soon as we can. Of course, there was an instant reaction last night where Phil Costa and I did some stuff from the ground, and Tim and Paul took the rest from there, but just a really fun experience. The stadium itself, wouldn't recommend it. Men's room for relieving yourself. The less said about that, the better. The only beer on offer was 0 % at 12 euros a cup, so also not ideal, but the football was a heck of a lot of fun. The songbook came out with some really good ones. The last Christmas song was going up. It was fun. Piero and Cappie's song is a banger. There's just a lot of fun to be had, but the general vibe was good, obviously.

1:32Seeing Gabriel Jesus come on was brilliant. Nani Medueke's goal is fantastic. There were some bangers. Gabriel Martinelli scored a banger, and Ethan Winery had a great cameo. So all in all, I think a good day at the office. And when you consider that Barcelona came to Bruges and drew 3-3, and we put out an all-change team, groups of players in positions they'd never played before, nor guard holding down the defense and doing a great job of it. And this is just the way it is under Mikel Arteta. you know whatever you think of him arsenal teams go out there and they always look competent they always look organized they always look like they know what they're meant to do and that doesn't mean they're always going to win but i i don't think you've seen a michael arteta side go out and produce a performance it's anything less than uh professional so it was a good day for the arsenal it was a fun day to be there i really enjoyed it we're going to give you a full podcast now so enjoy uh clive and paul and i love you and i'll be back on mondays enjoy fantastic thank you for that intro elliot and teeing us up uh but you should still all block him on all forms of social media at yankee gunner yes i'm paul thanks for as i say uh getting us rolling there elliot i'll be hosting today and join don't go running for the exits because joining me as you might hope and expect is the man the myth the legend nobel scientist scientist winning the prize for splitting the or sequencing the genome was it clive or is that gnome don't ask me mate you know that i listened to you and tim speak on the interreaction last night and he did a little bit of uh history of the wars whatever it was i thought no i can't i can't have that conversation because you two are so wise and so smart.

3:15If you want to talk to me about nuances as midfield and centre-forwards and what we want to do in our structure, I'm here all week, right? That's where you come into it. Yeah, I thought that was a really nice section. We had a nice little chat. It was actually a fun one. You might think it's all done and dusted, but it was actually a really good little chat, and Tim has his perspectives, and we had a good back and forth. But yeah, Bruges is famous for stunning, well-preserved medieval architecture, romantic canals the Venice of the North Clive delicious Belgian chocolates Lace beer historic squares like the Marked which doesn't have a knee at the end of it instead of Marked which is probably why they that's probably where the E came from the sequencing the gnome okay well you had me a beer mate you could have stopped right there so ladies and lovely Belgian beers It's very good.

4:10And I shall be having some on Saturday in a pre-game. Can't wait. Well, look, I found it an enjoyable game, okay, for the rest of the world, for the neutrals, whatever. It may have been a run-of-the-mill European fixture, but we are Arsenal supporters, Arsenal fans. And I think there's plenty to pick out of it. Okay, we have a tendency to maybe overread the tea leaves, but this is our life, our blood, everything that matters to us. And I think there's plenty to pick out of this one. I enjoyed the game. We'll look back on it as an easy victory, a 3-0. But it wasn't that easy. Certainly a game that had its phases.

4:49But yeah, what was your vibe on it, Clive? Enjoy the game. Did you think there were things to pick out of it, lessons to learn, maybe some signs in there? There's always things that appear in every game, right? And though we talk about every single game, it's a point in time. It's not forever. It's a point in time. And there were some discussions in this game, which I think were really, really good. Most importantly, we've lost a last-minute goal, a last-second goal. And that sick feeling has been in our stomachs the entire weekend. So to start the weekend, the first game of the weekend, and we've lost it.

5:28And it makes you think. It makes you get introspective. It makes you think, oh, crikey, and everyone else wins. And you start to look at your boots, right, metaphorically. so this game's come along you know we've all seen the injury news coming up and certain people didn't travel and you're wondering how are we going to look and then the ball starts rolling and we look all right you know and then um you're a fantastic individual goal and everything feels normal again the world feels right again and you just remind yourself that maybe two three years ago we playing that game with the map people we have out it's not going like that you know and it's a reminder of our maturity and growth in this competition that we you know we can go to these places now in third gear jog around smashing their net three times and go home you know and that's a big step forward and we never i never want to take that for granted you know and um what are 36 teams in the champions league table and uh we are on top of it so it's a good day Yeah, yeah.

6:30Good day. So, look, there were some concerns coming into this in terms of injuries. Niggles. Timber, I guess, traveled but wasn't part of the squad, if I remember right. Califiori was on the bench. We saw him hobbling off against Villa. So, it was good to see him on the bench. It was good to see him, I think, get on the pitch before the end. But the manager made some choices in terms of the lineup. He went with two flying wingers. Yachoresh through the middle. He went with the Real Sociedad midfield of Odegaard, Zubimendi, Marino. Norgard at right center back, an interesting choice. Myles Lewis-Gelly, not surprising, at left back.

7:13Yeah, like, I kind of feel we should start with, we can start wherever, but to me, I'd hate if we didn't give Nani his due. I mean, my word. that was like it was nothing like the maradona goal and yet it had maradona-esque picking it up near the halfway line at least in my i'm sorry this is painful for you clive england supported that you are dancing through the england team as i remember it last night um scoring a screamer from the edge of the box my immediate thought was why didn't you do that against villa but I'm very ungrateful, Clive. Yeah, well, it comes back to people returning from injury.

8:01You know, the Villa game, once we break it down, there was a number of people overplayed because of injury and a number of people back in the team that were underplayed because they'd been injured. And then we expect it all to work. Oh, by the way, we've just lost our two centre-halves, so we haven't got them. you know and so yeah it's yeah we were I was not saying harsh I was particularly frustrated by certain things against Villa when you breathe after a few days you just recognise it's a cause of disease and what happens next is the most important thing and this was what what was next and in some ways I think we're in a very strong position squad wise because we found some people in the last two weeks we'd lost some but we found some and we're finding more and Nonny we're definitely finding him because against Villa he had he had his cool dude game on head on do you know i mean this game he was had his proper head on and um that goal it was that shot was violent extraordinary and it was so so so direct so threatening now that same run against bill in the last couple of minutes some people say he should have run to the corner you know so it's all about execution yeah and it's all about the execution execution goes well then you're happy with it if he doesn't maybe he's losing a lot or he's traveling inside he's not in control of his actions blah blah blah and we all become analysts on that right but actually in this game he used his strength bodied him off came inside and didn't even look anywhere else had the blinkers on and smashed it onto the roof then there and it's a tremendous goal and i think profile wise with him and he worked it out i thought he's i thought the interview with him afterwards and our text was very instructive he sort of spoke about when my teammates give me the ball they've got to think something's going to happen and so he's for me his key thing is just be threatening consistently threatening and Arteta was sort of spoke to you can tell that he was talking about consistency of his actions he can't just be good one minute I'm not so good to the other I'm paraphrasing here you've got to have 10 consistent actions I thought bingo there's his game he's going to beat his man but the cross can't go into the terraces right it's got to go into drop between the sticks or cut back and so he's got natural one-on-one talent but it must lead to something consistently and the guy who wears number seven is quite consistent with his actions decision making and so you can see the next phase for him it's just although they're only about a year apart in age if that one's a lot more experience than the other you know and i think there's a definitely a world they can play together and nonny can do the Rafinha thing, tear away, direct runner, smashing left footers, getting in the centre forward.

10:45There's so many more things he can do and with that physical base, with that natural tendency to want to take people, really go. He's the coach's sort of dream. He's got it all, hasn't he? Like body-wise, you know, athletically, pace-wise, he's got to be up there for raw speed, you know? And so, yeah, a very interesting player and yeah, Great night for him. I'm with you on that. So he's a player, I don't know if I love him yet, but I'm ready to love him. There's something about his story and his arc that I think is just like, there's something about this player I think he can be great for us. I don't know if he'll ever be a brilliant finisher, but he could be a decent finisher.

11:28I mean, that goal, if he's got a few more there, a few more of them in his locker, but I don't know if he's going to be Mr. Super Consistency. but in some ways I think he's got a bit of flack for his end product when I don't think it's been his end product as his problem. His cutbacks are good. Generally his crosses are good. I know he's just come back from injury so I'm not judging him on that but before then when he had a bit of a run I actually think what he was doing was putting the ball into the right places consistently and we were starting to learn how to get on the end of those or we should have been.

12:01I think he's doing his bit of it. That's what you get non-E for and he does it. tim made an interesting point that in this game he saw him coming inside a little bit more like that saka drifting in thing um so he's gonna add some variety to his game and i don't know if you saw uh he has a one one-on-one coach for duels and for his game and you think about it and certainly look i've got no talent but i'd be obsessive about wanting to get better and wanting to have a coach that works with me and thinks about me because Arsenal's got a lot going on and they're not always going to be thinking about how you develop your game.

12:38But I don't know if you saw that interview stuff, but it did, what was his guy's name? Saul Isaacson, I think it was Isaacson Hurst. Okay. I've seen the videos. I've seen the videos. Very interesting. And it's not really about Nani, right? It's about him and how he works with players. but it was very clear he rates Nani as a, you know, talking about a humble guy who's hardworking. Like when that was the question, Nani was the name that came to mind. So I must say it did nothing but, yeah. But when we were first linked to him, I dismissed it straight away because I'm thinking my initial thought was, oh, that ain't going to work.

13:26Because to me, Nani was the enemy, right? because he was the guy that was competing with Saka for the England shirt. And I'm always looking at Saka, and I don't want to listen to Sam Matterface, always bigging up Nonny as a Chelsea man. And so he was the enemy. But then when you thought it through and the links became more solid, so, okay, let's have a look at him. And, you know, if I spent two, three years on the podcast talking about we've got to threaten the back line a little bit more, it'd be quite stupid of me to not look at a player in my mind who literally does exactly that, threatens the back line continuously.

13:59And we definitely need some directors and running power. And we've added a lot of that in Jokeres and Nani in the summer sort of thing. So once you start to look at him as a purely what profile do we need, it made a lot of sense. I sort of sniffed my nose at Rafinha when we were linked a few years ago when he was at Leeds. I thought, again, same thing. Why do you want him? He plays on the right. But suddenly you see, actually, he can play inside. He can play on the left. And I think Nani's going to have the same sort of arc. I really do. I think he's got a lot about him. But yeah, I think, Paul, once you get to know him and his story and recognize how all his teammates in the club wanted him to come because he fit and then his personality and how he reacted to the online kiddie stuff that was out there, right?

14:48So I think, yeah, you start to like him, don't you? And that's really important as a fan. Yeah, like I'm just signed up to watch his journey. I think it's going to be an interesting one. And there's always a few players I like to latch on to and just kind of see where they go, see how they develop. And he's like one of them for me. He's absolutely the one where he's going to have a story at the club and it's going to be interesting. The petition thing, right? 5 ,000 people signed the petition. And the amount of media coverage that gets. Look at all the people that did not sign a petition, right?

15:24and yet they make it only 5 ,000. There were tens of millions of Alta fans around the world, but let's just get the 5 ,000 beats. But let's make our headline. There's a petition, and after all of this shite, they said, they could only get 5 ,000 people who actually wanted to make a bit of a complaint. So I don't know. Our fans, like, we're not perfect. We're far from the worst. you know we we might have had a bit of a yeah but we're there for these guys yeah people yep exactly people allowed to have an opinion but i'm not sure we should be dragging out petitions mate i didn't sign until we see them in the shorts i don't know about you i can work out technically how to do it but yeah no i didn't sign it i tried but the login didn't take no so uh right let's switch to the other side so martinelli interesting game uh great goal I think it kind of helps him that the ball's kind of getting away with him.

16:23So getting away from him as he's beaten his man, the ball's kind of overrunning because that's what it has to do for him to get past. And like he only has one club in the bag and he whips that foot around and it's like absolutely perfect. And that's five in a row, five goals in five Champions League games. How did you feel when he took that shot? What is your gut first feeling when you took that shot? i don't uh it was pleasurable clive uh i don't know where you're going but but i i don't know what my first thought was i'll tell you what my second thought was which is i'm constantly reminded that guy used to be a guy i had pegged for a shot monster um there you go so we're in the same place and get them taking shots again on the edge of the box and we'll see that guy we saw two three years ago paul you just said what's in half in my head mate that shot it's been two years i'm waiting for that shot it's been there for him he just hasn't taken it and he's got the ability to drop a shoulder come inside and really bang it towards the top postage stamp and he used to do this all the time didn't care for anybody else much like nonny didn't care for anybody else maybe nonny set the example said look what happens if you when you take a shot you know so what he has been doing is running to the i call it the dark runs to the dark on his weak foot where just where the fullback wants him to go i'm going to force you to touch that i'm going to pressure your cross so the only place he can go is into the goalkeeper's hands or over the bar and he's comfortable doing that or get in the corner we take the corner we score so there's that side of things but i want him to do exactly that come inside and back himself you know and he used to do this all the time so that was my first emotion i saw that shot i thought mate come on there you go but after that he turned into he turned into jazino didn't he after that he was like uh he was unbelievable that's one for the kids not so yeah so yeah he did his confidence grew didn't he and um and then we think then we all go back and think actually i listened to the ir and i'm with Phil at halftime I thought mate you're not getting this you're not getting this then after halftime it looks really not so good right so um and so a friend of mine messaged me and said I had I had a tweet ready in my drafts to sort of really get stuck into Martin Ely and he said I didn't send it he said thank goodness and I said to him mate I just deleted my draft and so uh and so uh so yeah this is the this is what you learned isn't it as a fan just let it settle let the game settle and see what comes out and um yeah i thought he did really really well second half um and of course those guys are all thinking about champions league they know the world watches champions league uh and like he's living for that because that's his ticket to brazil world cup and i really should have said those guys are thinking about world cup especially our brazilian contingent and we'll talk about another one a little later on later on when we get to Gabby Jesus.

19:35But let's skip Yachoresh for now. We'll come back to him later because as everybody I'm sure knows there's been a lot of heat and noise around the Yachoresh discussion. So we'll pick him up a little bit later on and talk through that a bit. So we have our Spanish midfielders, I would call them, the Real Sociedad lads. And I don't know that I've fully seen it yet. We've had one conversation on our midfield from the Villa game. but there's i'm waiting to see more and more of it and i think it's there certainly ironically the understanding that you want to see with odegaard and zubamendi who are two very very intelligent players and whether they found the right understanding yet or not it's hard to imagine they won't get there i okay this was against brugge bruges however you particularly like to call it.

20:29But there were times when they just had a real ease kind of finding each other and finding the players around them that I started to enjoy. And again, I'm probably over-egging the pudding a little bit, but it was certainly something I was looking to see in this particular game. And in the good spells, I thought they were both very clever on the ball, around each other, et cetera. So, Marino, a little bit more perfunctory. I thought he was fine, but he certainly wasn't the main bill in terms of the midfield in this particular game. But how did you feel on the midfield? Yeah, so we all have our sort of natural biases and I tend to be able to see fullbacks and centre mids, like behind the ball centre mids a bit more easily than wingers, maybe the number 10s.

21:23I've always put my hand up to that. I struggled to see Smith-Rose clearly and players of that ilk. Obviously, I appreciate them when they do it, but some people, that's the first place they go. Whereas I could see Zubamendi's game from before he came, and I thought, wow, what a player this is. Because he's a player of facilitation, and he's a player that allows other people to be better. And I love that sort of player. And I also watch Arsenal from last season. When I felt we missed opportunities to go forward, and he doesn't miss many to go forward. He chooses the right one. There isn't a weakness with him, whichever foot he wants to go on.

22:03Where are the balls saying? If the ball's ugly, he settles it down, it goes. And I just think people can move off of him. So we look more fluid going forward. I believe he can see the game completely, and you do not want to put dark glasses on him so he only has to see a certain amount. I think he can see the whole game, and I think he can paint the whole picture but he needs to be behind the ball to start that and once he starts, he can go and do whatever he wants. I love that player. When we scattered him, I sort of said to Elliot and I blurred it and I said, I said it before so apologies for repeating myself.

22:38I think he's the most important signing of our Tetris era. And I said that, oh crikey, what have you said? And so far, he's settled quicker than Snow, isn't he? He just comes straight in, straight into the team and he's bouncing that ball about and I think he's changing how we look and feel. And maybe some of my reactions to Odegaard's last week, I don't want that to be restricted because I like what he's bringing to the team. You know, I'm liking the rhythm. I'm liking the fact that we're getting to people before they can settle into shape. So from a general performance point of view, we can choose if someone plays good or bad.

23:13It's up to you, right? But from a team pattern point of view, I love the fact that we're getting to people quicker. our wide men are suddenly not one on versus two but maybe one on one and there's a reason for that you know so so yeah i i really like his game marino's game i can see it because he's a bit like me a bit lumpy you know a bit lumpy around the pitch but his brain is off the scale isn't it and he puts himself into areas but maybe he shouldn't do his body doesn't want to do there's a bit that had me laugh run back in a second he was doing the rice roll of chase like I think it was like Forbes, the number nine or somebody, streaking down the pitch and he's chasing after him to catch him up like Rice does, only he's not gaining on him.

23:56And then he does the last minute sliding dive to stop the shot like Rice does, only he's still 10 yards behind when he starts sliding. That's no impact on the play, but his heart's all there. He was barely on your widescreen TV, but he still made a sliding tackle, right? So I bet you when they do a football, they do a review of the game they've got to play that right because uh and then marina will be like that is literally him flat out running he's still not gaining on him it's pretty funny he's still not there so he's running back thinking where's where's my left back he's not there where's hink happy well he's followed his forward right out to a touchline cheers lads i've got this the fastest bloke in their team i've got this and he's running back he's got his heads rocking backwards so it's really it's quite funny now because we say he didn't go away with it but um yeah but i but you know what pulled away my brains why i actually think that's fantastic that he took that on that he tried to fill that gap even though his body was not the right body to do it you know so um so yeah i i got a lot of admiration for him a player that um you know we trust us i don't know where our seasons would be over the last two three years i just don't know where we'd be you know the two of them their value is so so high and Odegaard's a little bit more perfunctory in this game what do you think about Odegaard in this game what's your like it's the classic you watch it the second time you see all the stuff right I liked it uh I wouldn't go you know I wouldn't go gangbusters on really anything in the game but I did like it I thought they had a nice vibe uh it was perfunctory but then that was a pro like So there's one moment, right, where I think it's fairly, roughly halfway through the first half.

25:43Odegaard is doing that thing that maybe has something you get, some people getting a little antsy, where he's dropped super deep. He's kind of a Zubimendi level, closer to the right, almost closer to where White is. He's on the ball and he looks up the pitch and there's no lane, but he finds a lane to Marino. He's right up where the same kind of just, just south of where the center forward, there's no pass there. And yet there is, and they find each other. I'm like, Oh, that's a kind of a real sociedad moment. Like I'm projecting here, lads. I get it. But like, there's a moment where I'm like, Oh, that is not a pass anybody sees, but, uh, you know, Odegaard sees it Marino sees it and that was pure intelligence and I think Marino then hits Yachoresh with the pass, it didn't come to anything in the box in the end, but it was like one of those delicious moments, so I think there's enough very nice moments without it being, you know, I wouldn't go gangbusters on it, I thought he had a nice game and it all kicked along.

26:54We had three sprinters ahead of him didn't we three sprinters ahead of him and i thought he was deeper but when we're away in europe i actually don't mind that i think it's quite good to settle the game down sometimes you overload the back end of the pitch say you lot ain't touching this ball mate 25 passes later they're in now dancing to our tune so there's phases you go through in the game and i thought yeah go on then do what you got to do you know get get around it get on the ball get on start bouncing about and start getting control that we can now play in the areas that you want to play over time so i was quite pleased with that and i know the first half was a little bit lumpy to start until the goal win but i was i was quite pleased with that for me the overall thing is about gaining control of a football match however you want to do that you do what you have right and he's got a talent to receive it anywhere tip tap out of that space and keep it moving and then roll around the other side and receive it again tip tap out of that way this stuff has an impact to people it stops from getting excited it quietens down the crowd it stops people getting on to us and the only time that they got into the game is when we do a slack pass and then we get counted on you know so as long as we're accurate that's that that's absolutely fine without rice being there i thought it's important that odegaard sort of had a bit more of a ball dominance do you see what i mean and so amerino's a bit more of a gap filler you need me to be here okay I'll get there for you just see what I mean but he's not going to be ball dominant he's not going to be high touch so I think we need two high touch players in there whereas when this is my challenge now when when the three £100m centre mids and Rice Odegaard and Zip Mendy are together what's that balance going to look like what roles are we going to accept what's the best roles for them versus the day the game state and the opposition that we're playing and that's the fun we have going forward because we're in the Champions League final tomorrow that's the midfield three that are going to play right so how they interchange how they work to me it's on my mind right it's what i walk about thinking about not everyone's thinking about but i'm not that's where i am and i'm not sure we're there yet but we've got loads of time so i had two frustrations from it i mean it was a tasty sausage but in the you know as they say about making a sausage there's still some bits of eyelid uh toenail clippings a sphincter it's all in there okay the sausage was tasty but like once we got the goal uh they just had the run of the game and so i talked a little bit bit with tim about this it is one of the enigmas of football you go up a goal and then you go from being able to string 27 passes together to struggling to string three together and it was a bit of a frustration within the team now it's the nature of a maybe a ramshackle lineup you string together for a champions league where they're finding each other but you see a version of it in the premier league each week too with with all teams but like it was a precipitous drop off in terms of control over the game where they just like they had their way with us till they got to the edge of the box and their finishing wasn't all that and our defense was reasonable enough um but i i was frustrated a little bit in especially in the first half that uh once we got a goal we kind of they kind of dominated the play and with that our left hand side i mean i thought marino was fine and stuff but we really weren't producing much down our left-hand side till Martinelli did.

30:36Well, Zubimendi floats it like that guy goes where he goes. He spots a bit of space. I think at the start of the second half, we had two throw-ins in a row, which is how he ended over that side, and he ended up being the man on the spot and hitting it with his wrong foot, though Tim would say there are no wrong feet, there are only wrong players. Puts in an absolute dream of a cross. Phenomenal stuff. but really that should have should have rabboned it really but let him go away with it so we have two uh worldish moments from the left but the overall play and creativity from the left not that great and we'll again we'll talk about jacques a little bit more but maybe i'd hope there'd be a bit more of a relationship forming there with jacques tending to peel left martinelli over there, Marino, who's a clever player, Maslu Skelly stepping into midfield, and at least to my eye, I would have liked to see more from the left-hand side, apart from a couple of wonder goals or wonder assists.

31:41Yeah, I think Miles has been very steady with his passing, so I found myself on the set, he's going, go on, mate, do it early, do it early, just do it early, get up behind it. You know, so, but he was making sure in his accuracy, particularly there was one he got wrong in the centre of the pitch and after that he said, right, I'm in a bit, I'm in a bit of debit. He only gained credit. So he made sure of his passing movements and I understand that on the pitch when you're trying to make sure that you regain trust from your manager so you get more minutes and that's what goes for the player's mind.

32:13So, Martin Ely, sometimes he's, when he's got his back to goal, I just, I get worried what he's going to do next. And so it's important that he gets the ball early so he can receive it on the half turn. So his first thought is to go forward. By the time it comes to him, he has to protect it. So he's got his back to goal. And that's when we don't see the best of him and combination play, etc. We didn't have Califuri poking up everywhere, you know, because Miles was playing a bit more inverted. And in your career, although on paper, mate, and all the YouTubes we saw in the summer, he wasn't really spinning into that left corner, really, you know, to create the angle.

32:48So we were quite stayed on that side, which we have been for a couple of years, let's be honest, until maybe some of this year. And it's been okay. But yeah, I take your point. I felt the left-hand side was full of promise without actually delivering. But the right-hand side player was player of the match, and Champions League player of the week had a spectacular moment. And so the game gravitated towards him because he was very decisive and quick in his actions. So yeah, it was just one of those games. Against a team, which is probably a level of, I don't know, a level of the team is going to play at the weekend in Wolves, maybe.

33:32And I watched Bruce play against Villa last year in the league's phase, and they beat them. I think Villa might have knocked them out in the knockout phase on the last of 16. And I thought they were really good. you know really good I'm not saying they were bad but maybe sometimes unlike when we walked in to play Chelsea and Sunderland I think we walked into Bruges at the right time lost their manager a bit of a protest and they were a little bit flat whereas I have seen them before and they look great against Barcelona in the free I think it's a free-all draw and so yeah I think we made them look not so good were we really really good or were they really really bad I don't know but I don't really care now just get on the bus either way so let's jump to the centre backs and Norgard I don't think many people thought that they were wondering where he was where's Waldo a little bit with him and when he does pop up he's playing centre back and I'm like my first reaction is well he needed to play him somewhere and we're a little tight on centre backs maybe there's a little bit maybe not chess but checkers here in that look who knows he may anything happens to anybody else he may actually need a right centre back and here's a 90-minute audition, get him comfortable with the role.

34:49And I think he did pretty good. He looked the part. I mean, we faced plenty of action, let's be honest. I don't know if it was a full test for him, but certainly that area of the pitch, one way or another, they got at our defensive line often enough. What were your thoughts on Norgard or center-back pairing in general? Do you think this was just a complete one-off? Or is he thinking, well, this could, you never know, this could come in handy if Saliba, like if Saliba doesn't have full fitness and like Timber had an interesting time and a bit of a niggle. And in some ways, Norgard, at least to the eye, looks more of a center back that, look, Timber's brilliant.

35:37And I wouldn't diminish that in any sense, but he now looks to me like a player who should be a right back, who maybe can fill in at centre-back, whereas Norgard kind of looks like a centre-back. Yeah. I think I said to Elliot, I think I've said it on here, or I've said it in my sleep, that I can see Norgard coming in as a right centre-back in a three to end the game. It looks like it. Because, you know, sometimes you go to a back five. I just had that feeling that he may end up doing that so when he was named as a center back I was feeling like yeah I could see that coming because his defensive play is actually really good how he reads things I don't think he's, well I know he's not you can't play for him like dude Mendy but I tell you what he can win his tackles and he knows when to jump and go and get it and he gets it and he gives it and I did see a couple of preseason games where he did really really well so there in my mind I felt for him that he was disconnected from the squad and wasn't part of it and when you're a senior guy setting examples and telling people how to be and all the rest of it eventually over a period of time they look at you and say yeah mate but you're not playing do you know what I mean and so when you play your words have more gravitas and so I thought it's very important that he played I think we missed opportunities at Sondland to get him on the last five we missed opportunities in other in other places maybe even at Villa to get him on I know the Villa sub-opportunities were taken away from us.

37:06But there have been gains that I felt we needed to steady. And he's a steadying type of player. And the way I described his role yesterday was he'd be our Rob Holding of midfield. Now come in and just close out. Do you know what I mean? Close out things and play the gains that we need to take minutes of people. But we haven't used him that way. We haven't closed him out. But maybe he will be the Rob Holding. the third centre-back that comes on, right? So whatever you've got to do in this group to be part of it and to make sure that we can get over the line, he may have found a role for himself, you know?

37:46And the joy of this game was finding people for me, rediscovering people, getting minutes into people. You know, I think that's the joy. And I think the squad and the club had a really good night. And he is now part of the group. and the manager spoke so well of him. I mean, have you heard him speak so well of any one player? He was conspicuous, right? And this is a guy he's given 15 minutes to in the Premier League and we can all see, identify, feel that there was way more minutes for him to play in this first, whatever, 14, 15 games of the season. So it was at odds. I mean he could not have talked more highly about how Norgard had come into the squad committed his training, his ethic, how he thought about him but he's got 15 minutes on the pitch and so I wonder maybe there's nothing to wonder here but I do wonder if he's playing a little checkers at least in terms of he may need him at centre back we've got some cup games coming up but it is still odd that he has not considered him a midfielder yeah not yet but I you know the Zubmendi rights they're so flipping good aren't they I mean let's be honest if you're back up to them too you're in a bit of trouble aren't you really let's be honest and Zubmendi like if you think about it you would it's maybe a bit of a cliche or an easy place to go to but I do absolutely think that is now Arteta on the pitch, right?

39:32Used to be Odegaard, and I'm not saying it ain't Odegaard from an attacking perspective, but Zubimendi, mindset-wise, they must be absolutely on the same wavelength in how you control a game from that sixth spot on the pitch, that DM spot that Arteta played for Arsenal, that Zubimendi plays for Arsenal. Spanish midfielders who see the world a particular way. Arteta was often criticized for being a little dull in that position, a bit of a tempo side-to-side merchant, but that's how you pull the strings. And Zubimendi is pretty low-key, apart from when he's doing worldy stuff. Outside of, you know, it's a bit like the, what was it, Mrs.

40:18Lincoln. Outside of the assassination, what did you think of the play? So, like, outside of Zubimendi's worldy moves, his game can be appropriately dull, which is kind of what you want from there, right? It's about tempo. It's about letting other players shine, giving them the ball at the right time in the right position. I do think, given how fit and available Zubimendi is, I'm not surprised Arteta doesn't look to rest him because that's how he wants his team playing. It's control from back there. yeah i i absolutely and he's very very good right the whole of europe wanted him and we got him and there's a reason that price was was an absolute bargain it's the reason why i called him a hundred million pound player because that's what he is right so um if enzo fernandez is worth 115 well you tell me you tell me right so um so we've got him and it's hard for norgar to compete with that right so um because he does a lot of stuff right but what norgar does do very well is he's he he fills holes and he and he gets after people and he's very responsible and he you know he's just a fantastic professional and not every game is the same right it's a european game full of flow full of you get time to get it receive it turn around look up and pick your next pass maybe games like that that's not what we experience at chelsea in that villa park it's a different game you've got to get your elbows out this is war right you've got to go with these people you've got to run with people coming off the sides it's a different game you've got to really protect that back line with your life because you're fighting for three points right and there's going to be time for nor god i'm just pleased he's now in the picture and we've all got a picture of him and so we'll now consider him based on the last performance and so he's had a great night a great night and what he doesn't need now is from not being the squad at the weekend he needs to be part of the picture.

42:13There's a mystery around Saliba, isn't there? There's a mystery that's developing. That days has turned into weeks and it just sort of happened. You know, pre-Chelsea, it's like flipping hell. Where'd that come from? And so we've got Walter the weekend and Everton after a week. He needs to make an appearance soon. Right? So because the Everton game is not one we can pass up. Right? So we'll be interested to see what happens. Interesting. But it does buy us 10 days of rest and recuperation, potentially for saliva, and hopefully that will be enough because we're not the same without those guys, not when we're really put to the test.