Mailbag - What is Success This Season? (And More!)

29:48Elliot:Yeah. And that's where I am with him. Yeah. And this is really hard stuff. But fundamentally for me, Clive, the structure and the defensive solidity of this team has been clear for multiple seasons. okay and so the question then shifts to how you get more at the attacking end of the pitch and i know there's some people that'll say hey and i'm among them i've said this when we were fit this team scored its record number of goals in the premier league and while that is true i think it is only honest of me if i admit that even amidst that goal flurry i think there were some red flags of caution about getting too confident in our attack because when you dig into the underlying metrics, the open play chance creation, some of those data points, they're very good.

30:49Please don't get me wrong. They're very good. But they are a notch below city in Liverpool. In fact, even in those seasons, I think that that season it was a notch below Newcastle. So that's not to say that the attack isn't effective. The attack is clearly effective. it is not the absolute elite it's not the apotheosis of premier league attacking design and you could say that that's not actually necessary and that leads to a question from wisdom of mameer who i think gets at something that is is kind of a fundamental question clive and there's a there's a couple of ways that i think we can go with this so i'll ask his question says for the past few seasons arsenal's uh defense has been their most defining trait with the new attacking addition should the team become more offensively focused or should they stick with the solid defensive foundation that has brought them success i.e should the balance of the team be tilted more offensively like liverpool or remain defensive like arsenal after all three points is

31:45Elliot:what wins titles great question we got some smart people a great question right so um and this is one of the things i ask myself all the time if you look at arsenal what are we defined as and we're defined as a well-coached solid well-structured team that can play all different game states really really well including restarts we do everything that's in the coaching manual tick tick tick tick tick tick have we got enough ingenuity shall we say have we got enough things that we don't know what they're gonna do you know so we probably haven't you know and that's why the ball goes to number seven right and everyone knows it goes to number seven so they stand there the numbers you can't the data will tell you everything right so we scored five more goals than spurs last season they lost 22 league games right so think about that for a second right so we've got us we've got goal scoring issues shall we say right and the things that are just holding us up is the fact we've got the best defense in the league so we're looking to add two to three attackers to this group and hopefully keep a couple attackers that were really injured last year fitter probably three of our sort of really critical players in odegaard havers and saka spent significant times either out of form injured just not present two operations in there and so maybe one should have had an operation shall we say you know so um so we weren't showing our best attacking face so it can all be explained away from the fact our top score scored nine goals never happened for 100 years whatever it is so we've got room to improve i'll talk about spurs for a second they lost 22 games defensive organizations all over the place step one thomas frank let's organize the defense let's just do that shall we because we can't be losing 22 games again there'll be riots right so um and so that's they're going to be structured more organized and they probably have some low scoring games but they're going to be competitive in most games we've asked for now we're competitive we can keep people in areas we can do all this stuff what we need to do is turn more high turnovers into shots have a far more diversity of attack on our left hand side and a little bit more technical ability and running power to run through the last line be far more direct and vertical quicker in transitions speed of passing transitions risk that first pass a bit more and i can look to the signs we've got so far and i can see all of those things that have been resolved on paper now i need to see it on grass and none of us have seen it yet you know so that's why i'm i'm being patient we just haven't seen it we haven't seen the attackers we haven't seen them fit we haven't seen the units together yet but we will do and we'll know really quickly where we are you know because the problems are clear earlier they're so clear there is no it's just violent agreement really it's just a matter of when do you want to kick off about it you know i'm just not ready to kick off yet we can all see where we're not quite tip top let's see what happens this is what the manager does and some of that's in the players and some of that is how we move the ball what our behaviors are like in transition how we move what we commit to some of that's behavioral some of that's coaching some of that's individual players yeah i am of the opinion that you don't have to have only one way of doing things and i think anybody who wants to be honest no matter how critical you are of this team because there are some people that are quite critical and there are some people that are less but even the most critical people would have to accept you haven't seen this version of arsenal get outplayed by a good team in a very long time when was the last time you saw us go up against elite opposition and look lesser maybe the first 15 minutes against psg but the rest of that tie i'd say the opposite happened um maybe against byron but i don't think we were i think we lacked offensive firepower.

35:38We lacked offensive strength to match them. They took advantage of mistakes. We looked a little blunt. And maybe I'm splitting hairs there, so if you want to say, no, we were outplayed, look, I'll give it to you if you want it. But my point is, our system, however critical you want to be of it, works really well in the big games. We're exceptional against the top sides. I do think, Clive, that an offensive tweak, an offensive adjustment against the rest is is probably warranted and one of the areas that i've been starting to think about a little bit that came up in the questions was about fullback so so wichel arsentetta said how will we ever escape the horseshoe of death fundamentally is this a manager issue or a personnel issue but then added demolisher asked something say we do get as a um do you feel we're still short in terms of an overlapping left back or right back.

36:34And this made me start to think a little bit about what Liverpool have just done with Caracas and Frimpong.

36:40Elliot:Yeah. And what PSG did in dominating Europe with Mendez and Hakimi. Yeah. And fundamentally, you know, even if you think Ben White can do it a bit, and I think he can do it a bit. I don't think you'd say he's a tearaway fullback who's, you know, designed for the final third. He's added that to his game. I think Timber feels a little more comfortable in the interior. and Miles Lewis-Gelley certainly plays in the interior. And that can work and that is very Pep-coded, as the kids would say. But we are seeing some of the best sides in Europe now win with fullbacks who overlap and in fact even score goals and create the final pass.

37:16So in terms of the horseshoe of death, so to speak, and changing our offensive firepower, are we missing a trick not having or not deploying overlapping fullbacks?

37:28Elliot:should i do the horseshoe bit first because yeah if you think they're tied together otherwise do them separately yeah go for it i think positions it doesn't names of positions it doesn't really concern me the core the core bit that concerns me is movement and it's something that i've been saying for a long time on here about attacking the last line running through. I don't care what number's on your back. How you attack that last line, movement activates the pass, to take a quote from a patron, which I thought was genius, because movement, when you look up and you see movement, that's when you pass it.

38:09Elliot:That's when you penetrate. If you see no movement, you know what you do? You go to the side. So that's when the horseshoe comes in. It's about our movement and our starting positions in the inside spaces. I was watching Manchester United last night, and I was looking at what they did around their front three and how narrow they were. They were quite narrow. And I looked at them, that's interesting. So they're almost like a front three standing position where their back three would start. So the front three within the 18-yard box, they're quite narrow. They were trying to feed it in there to create a combination and then go to the outside.

38:43Elliot:So that's how they do it. We play around a block. And that's what we tend to do a lot. which I'm fine with but then once you get to those areas you must have underlaps or overlaps you must have movement that forces the next pass to penetrate and I think that's what we've lacked you know I don't think we run through enough um I I don't think it's a strong state uh games state of our odigars I don't think he he wants to do it he wants to receive the ball with everything ahead of him and other people got to do that running but the thing is he's next to our the most dangerous attacker, that needs people to run through so he can create combinations, right?

39:22Elliot:And this is a side that works. On our left side, we don't really run through. Rice does it on occasions. When he gets there, he's on his wrong foot in that position. And so we really are asking people to do things maybe they're not comfortable with. So we need to have people to run through lines. And this is where the centre forward comes in. I do think he's going to run through lines. He's going to shake attacks around and people are running through spaces that he creates. I think what he will do is that he will lengthen the pitch for us because I don't think he's coming back into midfield so we have a bigger pitch from which to play which means we need carriers to carry through those central areas, to carry through the wide areas we're so compact that we create a team we're a compact team anyway when we attack but then the other team are forced to be compact because they can't really deal with us so they've got to squeeze the space and try to give us areas that they don't want to concede so we end up playing to the style of what the opposition gives us, but we don't mind it because we like to be compact anyway and not concede.

40:17Elliot:But then we are heavily reliant on one-on-one merchants in wide areas. And when they don't do it, we let them know about it. That's the truth. So we have points of failure in our attacking system at the moment. But it can be changed by good movement, you know, by moving and then trusting that movement and making sure people don't be afraid to give the ball away. Another one in my life is just play the pass. If someone commits to a run, you're duty-bound to play that pass because at least it's going to shake the opposition. The opposition knows it's not coming. They just get comfortable and relaxed and stay in shape.

40:53Elliot:So for me, movement is key. Now, if you want to see a sprinty fullback in those runs, that's your taste. Me, personally, I'm not worried. I'm not worried. As long as we do it, and then we can decide who's better at it, etc. Kerkhev and Fimper are excellent at doing that. sort of thing but let's see what happens let's see how many goals little ball concede you know i'm interested to see what happens there right i think too early on they're not they don't be pushed don't be pushed back and they're way to get them going backwards you know so let's see how we go yeah it is really interesting how you can go from being solid and defensively organized to feeling like you need to emphasize the attack to emphasizing the attack to having no defensive of solidity whatsoever, right?

41:41Like, it can slip through your fingers very quickly. And suddenly you've got two fullbacks that want to go forward that don't defend very well. You've got a 37-year-old center back who maybe is starting to feel age. He gets older by the minute. You know, 39-year-old center back and the 45-year-old center back is struggling to move and your six isn't necessarily naturally a six. And next thing you know, you've conceded 55 goals in the season and you finished sixth. And I don't want to say I just looked into a crystal ball and described Liverpool's season, but it does feel like I've just described Liverpool's season.

42:14Look, I think what we should do is talk about success this summer. By the way, we still have questions about Liverpool and Saudi Arabia's beautiful romance that's sprung together. And I just think, you know, everybody loves a love story. We got to talk about Yoke versus Kai. And I want to do a section on what is success this season. I think this is the time of the summer when we start to think about that. But it's also the time of the summer where you start to think about how am I going to watch games when I'm out of the country? How am I going to watch geo-locked videos? How am I going to watch all of the football on all of the links with the protection I need and the access I need?

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45:19Is that enough of that?

45:22Elliot:Indeed. Not it. Okay. So we're back. Clive, we must, I think we can agree on this. We must have a successful season. Do you agree? Yes. We must. I feel as though we need to win a trophy, my son. We must have a successful season. Everyone agrees on that. The problem is what on earth is a successful season? And that is the question we must answer because Insert Name has asked this pithy question, Clive. What would you consider success this year and what's the minimum we must achieve? It feels like you've just got to win every single game. That's the only thing that's going to keep us all happy, right?

46:09Elliot:So that's key. What about goal difference though? Yeah, I don't want to see any goals go in. Okay. A lot go in the opposition net though. Yeah, a lot. Probably three every game. That would be nice. and we know you're going to be the field tilt world champions. We know that already, but we need to make sure we're the XG over-performers as well, you know what I mean? And make sure XG difference is good. I think, I listened to Daniel Levy today on the Overlap show this morning and they asked him what was success and he gave the classic executive answer is, we want to be competing at the top level of the game because that allows clubs to make decisions going forward with knowing what their revenues are.

46:52Elliot:So I'm sure if you asked anybody and the senior levels of the club, it'll be, we need to win. We're going, we seem to be going all in to win. You know, and, but primarily, we need to be at the top end of the game. I need to be there because I need to know what my revenues are, plus 600 every single year, which means I can grow this club. I can grow this business. I can make sure I can borrow money to do the things I want to do down the road infrastructure-wise. I can make sure I can get the right people in. I can show them where we're going, all the young players. We can show that we've got clubs that are stable.

47:24Elliot:I want to be competing at the top end of the game. If I lose my way, then I risk instability. And an unstable club cannot project forward with confidence and we can't sign the people that we want. We can't renew the people that we want. If you're asking most fans now, we just want to win something now. We've had a couple of, let's take the last three years. We had this Inchenko summer where he came in with Jesus and transformed our lives and opened up a new brand of football for us. Nothing better than that pre-season. Nothing better than those first 12 games. Then the World Cup come along and then we got a few injuries and we injured out towards the end.

47:59Elliot:But it's all right because none of us expected that. And then the second year, it's like, oh, we didn't start quite as good. It didn't feel quite as sunny. Then we found our way after Christmas and bang, hit maybe the peak of Mikel Arteta's arsehole for 18 games. Won 16, drew one, lost one. Right, so Champions League again for the first time in seven years quarter files the first time in 14 years not bad not bad okay i can deal with that maybe city were a touch better though i disagree i think we're just unfortunate um i can deal with it just about okay this year let's see what happens and this year never felt last season never felt quite right never it never got off the ground started to go wrong bright and at home where we didn't quite get our health right maybe tactically we we we We stagnated slightly because we tried to just add a floor to what we already had.

48:47Elliot:Because the six-month periods were so successful, we probably thought, this is going to be enough. It wasn't enough to beat City, but Liverpool came in and took everything away from us. So this year now, there's an expectation on it. We've had a couple of years of learning lessons on what went wrong, what we need to mitigate against. We think we've done that in the market to mitigate against the squad failings and the lack of options and the lack of depth to make sure that we're healthy when it really, really matters. And now we need to add some stardust, right? So I do think we're set up better to manage the season ahead, knowing what it is, knowing the schedule, knowing what depth issues are there.

49:28Elliot:I think a lot of them have been resolved. My line I said a few weeks ago, I always want another piece of chicken. Well, Eze's that extra piece, right? and it feels like it's more important than it was even two weeks ago based on what we have seen on the pre-season so far, regardless of the conditions, etc. It feels as though we have to really look at that side of the pitch properly and really address what's happening there. So for me, yes, we need to be successful. We can't deny it. But by the way, don't see that as a dead weight around you. If you're in this environment, everyone wants to win.

50:03Elliot:Listen to every single player interview. what what do you want to do i want to win trophies so don't let the external noise feel like an external pressure it feels to me like we've never been more aligned inside and outside the club everybody wants to win and the actions are according are showing me that my only thing as a as a middle-aged fan my only thing is i want to see the environment correct for us to win so I feel as though I don't want to put too much pressure on yet from the outside in until we start to play that's my only issue until we start to play the edge of three points is everything so think even in last season when we weren't at our tip top best when we had to bring that edge to our game that competitive edge particularly in big games it was there we were hardly bettered newcastle probably the best time against us in the competition which is our fourth right so um we were hardly bettered you know so that means that edge is there and we just need to remember that and add on top of it yeah i so i find this this conversation in particular very very difficult because it's incredibly loaded i think people get very upset if you don't define success narrowly the way they define success.

51:32I'm going to read a question that I'm not necessarily going to answer. Very AVP of me. But Big Red Arsenal asks, is it ever actually reasonable for fans to expect their club to win the Premier League or Champions League? Given that, for any team competing, the odds of not winning these competitions is always higher than the odds of actually winning. Are we not just setting ourselves up for failure if that's our only KPI next season? and I think that's also a fair point I'm gonna say this there's a there's a legal principle in American Supreme Court jurisprudence about pornography and uh there's a famous judge who said I can't define pornography but I know it when I see it and I think success in football is similar I think narrowly defining it as we must win the Premier League or the Champions League is setting yourselves up to then be able to say it was failure.

52:26But I think you know success when you see it. I've been lucky enough to be at the final home game for quite a few seasons now, because that's when we time our Union Chapel event. And I was at the home game two seasons ago when we beat Everton on the final day, but City won their final game against West Ham, and we fell short of the title. and it was as celebratory an environment as I've experienced on a final day. The mood was effervescent. It was extremely joyous. We won nothing that season, but I don't think that fans regarded the season as failure, at least not the fans that I encountered on that final day of the season.

53:09I think you know if you've had a good season and then when you try to define it just as a trophy, I think you rob it of that fairy dust, that magic that every fan kind of knows. The ride we went on two seasons ago was an extraordinary ride that we all enjoyed. And while it didn't bring the ultimate trophy we wanted, I experienced it as a successful season. I know there's some people will say, well, that's just a loser mentality. Small club mindset. It's trophies or nothing. But given what you're trying to win, if you say it must be the Premier League or the Champions League or it is failure, that means that Arsenal have, and I've said this on this podcast before, failed every single season for 21 seasons and in the Champions League every season in our history.

53:53And I don't regard us as a failed club. There have been wonderful seasons along the way. Now, some will say, well, Elliot, that's because you're missing the FA Cup and the League Cup. And this is where I am going to diverge again from some people. I would enjoy winning those trophies massively. Please don't take this as me saying I wouldn't because those are wonderful experiences. But winning those trophies would not change my evaluation of whether Mikel and this project was getting closer to the goals of what I'd like it to do and where I'd like it to be. So if we finished seventh or fourth, but won the FA Cup, I would soak every minute of joy out of the FA Cup, but I would regard us as having taken a step back, Clive.

54:36That to me would be a step back. So this is what I mean about the way I started with the Supreme Court thing. I know it when I see it and everybody defines it a little differently, but I want the ride to be fun. I want to have high moments. I want to feel like we're in the hunt for the biggest trophies. I want to feel like that hunt reflects the best of what we can be. Two seasons ago, we got that in the league last season we did not last season we got it nearly in the champions league but those those kinds of things you can feel and i think narrowly defining it as win the premier league win the champions league or it's failure is a way for you to miss out on a lot of the joy that the

55:15Elliot:season can bring you you know yeah i've been very lucky enough to go to almost every home game for last three years and and so comparing last that year everton year elliott to last year's one and it was a respectful send-off. You know, it was a supportive send-off. But people were not in the same frame of mind because it wasn't quite as joyous, right? But they're our social supporters. So what do you do? When people need support, you support them. That's when people need support, not when it's like super easy and everyone's clapping on the back. And I felt it was really respectful that day. But in all of our hearts, we thought, you know what, it hasn't quite happened for us this year.

55:54Elliot:We need to see a reaction. And we're starting to see the start of that reaction right now. I think the issue is, right, it's almost like people almost want you to guarantee success. And so that word guarantee is what you can't really commit to. You can go for it, though. You know, did we really go for it last year? We've explained maybe we didn't. And there could be good reasons for that we're not aware of. But we didn't really go for it. And even if we did, we'd have suffered so many injuries. It would have worked out anyway. but this year we've gone for it and I don't think we're done we need to sell well you know and as we're sitting here right now recording Keenan Drewsby Hall was just about to be sold for 25 million whatever it is and Liverpool got a young centre mid called Tyler Morton who played the under 21 for England in the summer a nice steady centre mid popping off to Lyon for 15 million we look around us and people can seem to be able to move their assets on and then we can dig into that but I'm not prepared to I'm not educated enough, but there seems to be some cosy money flying around.

56:58Elliot:But not we're also concerned. You have to seem to work hard for it. So that step needs to happen so we can reinvest it to really add the icing on top of the cake, right? So, yeah, I can't tell people how to think, but I really want us to win. But I recognise that no one can guarantee it for me. And I recognise we're going to lose football matches. I recognise certain people are going to lose form. it's how you react in those situations have we got the ability to react to those situations when someone is down have you got a chance to sit them down or do we have to play them through and i i take it to you last year we had to play people through bad periods of form and we don't have to do that this year so those first 11 people that keep saying a club what about this i don't care because i want to see the competition level raise so form is maintained and sustained for longer and when that edge and that detail will turn those 14 draws i'm hopeful into six draws you know and that's the difference right that is the difference we're trying to you know if we lose four games no big no biggie but can we keep it to five or six draws because then we'll win the league you know so that edge that ability to change up power up change the way we're playing is everything and that's what i'm looking to see and that may not happen in the first few weeks but we'll we'll have it hopefully one of the critical points this season yeah and i think you said something that's really important i can't tell someone what they should think success feels like because it's very personal and if someone thinks that i'm lowering the bar of expectations maybe i am like maybe that's how i protect myself so i can enjoy the journey a little bit more because the other thing is am i allowed to enjoy if we win at anfield but don't win the title am I allowed to have enjoyed that we won an amphi?

58:50You know, I want to feel the moments of celebration and excitement along the way. There are going to be moments of disappointment as well. Last season was hard because, to your point, you've said this more eloquently previously, but it never got going. And so I think it denied us, at least in the league, the chance to ever really ramp up that excitement. But I also lived through a decade where it really felt like the goal was top four. And that was the limit of what we were chasing. and it feels really fun to be back in the place where the the expectation so to speak is to compete for the title not just try to slide into a champions league place um within now within

59:31Elliot:that construct earlier of a average feeling season shall we say without doubt the real madrid at home night was the best night i've ever experienced at the emirates without doubt you know out of nowhere, it was like spectacular. So maybe we wrote that for the other game, but it was just spectacular. And I'll never forget it, right? It'll always be in my top three, always. Yeah, and it is the case, though, that I think projects do need a culmination. And this is where I have some sympathy for the people that would say, if not a trophy, then what? Like, I think... Alright, go on gioully back. And it is fair to say that eventually your manager and your group need to win the Premier League or need to win the Champions League or something to point to as sort of the culminating moment of a project.

1:00:24Otherwise, it's just natural to want a refresh. Now, that refresh could be a mistake. You could be getting a worse manager. You could be getting worse players. but even knowing that I think there is something about renewal and newness that just freshens up support in general um you know the Emory era was in my mind worse than any of late stage Arsene Wenger but that doesn't mean it was wrong to move on from Arsene at that time so my point isn't let's move on from Mikel my point is projects do need a culmination they just do I mean Brendan Rodgers had a pretty good run with and I'm not saying Mikel is Brendan Rodgers but what I'm saying is He had a good run at Liverpool, but it couldn't come to its culmination, and there was an opportunity to change, and they took that opportunity.

1:01:06So I'm sort of making the counterfactual. I'm creating the counterfactual, you know what I mean, the argument that I think would be against my own argument. But I do think, Clive, it is fair for some people to just say, hey, I need some culmination here.

1:01:23Elliot:Yeah, we all want to win. Everybody wants to win. There's no debate in this. I feel it's quite tougher sometimes. particularly when we lose, because we then explain why we've lost. So why has this happened? Why has that happened? We didn't do this, we didn't do that. Maybe we didn't think about this. Maybe there's just a reason why this happened, blah, blah, blah. And then you get called for making excuses. So I'm just trying to explain to you why maybe we haven't done it. We were competing against Man City, probably the best Premier League team ever. And they are funded differently to us. and we're competing against them.

1:02:00Elliot:While we've been recording, Chelsea knee-bought another two players. And so it's just, we're in a different landscape right now. That's not an excuse. That's reality. But we're trying to fight it, right? So while we're trying to fight it, I'm always there, right? We can't guarantee it, but I'm always there. Some of those two previous seasons, two of the best seasons I've ever experienced at Arsenal, without a doubt, because of the feeling around the ground the unity, where we're going, without a doubt. And I've seen the league winning teams. I've seen us win away in Europe, live in my own eyes.

1:02:36Elliot:You know, I've seen everything. But those two seasons were really, really special. And last year wasn't as special. That's okay. That is life. But now how do you react to that? It isn't about renewal. It's about reinvigoration. It's about a step, a line, right? And if people are committing to that new line, the people you'll want to see stay, I'm cool with it. If they're cool with it, I'm cool with it. Now, there does come a point, where you've explained really, really well, where potentially some key figures may need to move if we don't win. I'm interested in the footballing evolution that could develop this year with some key pillars in the team that maybe the team will develop past.

1:03:21Elliot:And you don't think it's going to happen, but then it just happens. and it become obvious one of my many lines is the first 11 presents itself to you so stop trying to pick it it presents itself to you yeah it'll be clear but what you've got to create is the options and we haven't had enough options so now we can watch this team develop and fight for its shirt until the 11 presents itself to us yeah and that's what you want and that's the exciting bit i'm so excited to see it well gosh that leads to a i think a pretty good question from uh yanko abs who says can you outline your minimum expectations of the manager next season areas you expect improvement from him like in game management for example instead of team targets what are your your michael arteta targets yeah so there are things that i like in football you know there are systems that i like i try to keep them under my hat because you end up podcasting in a way where until you see your thing nothing is good enough do you see what i mean well how about explaining what the thing they're trying to do is and why they maybe are doing it whether i agree with it or not doesn't really matter right so i've i've always i'd love to see a a back three on occasions with two strikers you know that's what i like you know and um but we don't play that way so what do i mean i don't don't like the team that presented to us you got a manchester united fan over here everybody i don't mind it i like that system until he gets picked off then i go quiet you know i mean let's get back to 433 really quickly but on occasions i would like to see us end games in that system i generally would you know because i don't want to see us have those draws again so i'm looking at solutions in my mind you know the option for two strikers looks quite nice on occasions i want to see what that looks like is it a 4-4-2 a 4-2-2 or is it a 3-3-5-2 what does that look like what it look like for Arsenal I mean I'm interested in that you know so I'd like to see that coming a little bit more I don't see us ride and die with just the one system and I'm plugging and playing with those players I would personally like to see different systems different phases of games particularly potentially match up I thought Crystal Palace home game was a bit of a concern for me you know it's quite interesting whenever I say things like this people say okay we don't create it's like now for when i say it they don't remember right so i'm telling you now crystal palace home game was a concern for me i thought they spread the pitch really really nicely i thought we struggled with our win backs i thought ese was devastating i thought mateta was so strong i know we weren't in tip-top position right then we had other things that we were focusing on but i also thought manchester night concern me in the fa cup would appear as they had dominance for until they got the 10 men they dropped away so that system has caused me problems i don't think we manage the physicality of newcastle very well homer away right so we have weaknesses you know but we're trying to address some of those things so so these are i would like to see us match up against some of those biggest physical teams with more bigger physical players to match them up and have pitch coverage that's how i would do it right the manager doesn't do that and he's lost very few of those games right so but i keep going back to those 14 draws i keep going back to that you know being more efficient around the edge area much more iq around the area much more devastation running through lines to control the game stake that leans into our super strength which is defensive structure so i'm focused on the first 15 minutes of games a lot more i think we need to be really fast get back to fast start also remember that then we controlled everything where did that that period when we scored a million goals early 18 games mate check those games out after 20 minutes i think we're ahead in almost all of them after 20 minutes i'd love to see that data we just devastated whether it's a set piece goal that first goal came when the first goal came the pitch opened up and we killed teams fours and five bunches sixes even we killed them in bunches because we controlled the game state really you I want to see us get back to that.

1:07:28Yeah. I mean, my goals for the manager, he says, realizing how absurd it is for me to even speak that sentence, are tied to this question from RMB who says, not sure how to send mailbag questions, but here goes. Hey, RMB. You made it. Just send a mailbag question. You did it. You just put it in Discord under the mailbag questions area, and that's how you do it. If we don't win anything major this season, knowing uh if we don't win anything major this season why knowing what we do now do you think that would be and vice versa if we do win and so this is tied to my thing with the manager which is simply if we don't win anything major this season taking out the obvious stuff of like everybody gets injured again right i think it will simply be that we run into the problem we ran into last season too many draws too many times when we're unable to turn control of games and dominance in games into dominant scorelines.

1:08:29And we simply have to lose this thing and that Mikel has to find a way to either instill this in the players or change it tactically. I felt too many times watching Arsenal last season that we considered it a goal when we just had possession in the final third. There were times I'd watch us and it felt like Saka back to Odegaard, knock it over to Rice, Rice knock it back to Gabrielle, back to Odegaard, give it to Timber, Timber, give it to Saka. and like we were happy to do it. We've got control. We're in our shape. We're dominating the game. It's 1-0. And look at us. We've got it. Without really having the intensity to turn that into some kind of pressure on the defense to be pulled out of their shape and to create a chance.

1:09:12And there has to be more than just final third possession. I get that we are field tilt champions of the world. We need to be closer to Liverpool and City, if not ahead of them in xg per 90 in shots per 90 in in big chances created and to do that we can't just have the ball in the final third we have to use the ball more urgently in the final third that's that's the thing i'd like to see sometimes i felt we were resting in games by having possession in the final third and clive if we don't win i think it'll be because we don't turn that dangerous possession into dangerous chances we get chinned and we have too many of those one ones where we were one nil up and they get a golden out of nothing because they shoot from 30 yards it gets a deflection it finds the back of the net and we're going how are we so unlucky and it's that we opened ourselves up to that variance by not turning our dominance into chances that's how we don't win something in my view yeah yeah and you've obviously got the you've

1:10:08Elliot:got recent history in your mind so i do again and it's in all our minds so what you said there no could disagree with but someone will you know sometimes we play two nil football at one nil and that's what you're saying yeah yeah two nil football one nil and i'm watching these games pan out and a referee decides to enter the room and suddenly without 10 men it's like for god's sake you know how's this happened and we cry ourselves to sleep we have a referee podcast but really the saliba penalty against brighton you know something like that that so many of this and it's something that's missing in the group you know and so we have to change it we have to have a more offensive desire that's number one this is the stuff you would coach and say so we have to change our behaviours as we're jogging back to halfway line high-fiving and and doing whatever the shout should be it's nil-nil lads it's nil-nil let's go again let's go and get the second and when you get the second we flip different shapes and we change the shape of the pitch and we bring on people who can counter you know Mark nearly suddenly becomes a hero because he can travel up the pitch and they can't come on to us because you've got the speedster there.

1:11:17Elliot:You know, so we've got to start playing 2-0 football at 1-0 and really have that offensive desire. I'll come back to it to change things. I think we're trying to add those people earlier. I think, you know, I was, you know, very much from last pre-season, very much a Sesco fan based on what I've just seen Havertz do. I thought to have two of him would be the way to sustain that level of football. I didn't think the false nine thing was going to work anymore. I wanted like a bigger target man nine to hit. And as the year went on, I changed. I changed because I could see Havertz in the gym on my Twitters.

1:11:55Elliot:And I thought, well, we don't maybe not need another one of Havertz. We need something else. And just listening to Jokovic and reading interviews about him, he has a single mindset about goal scoring. And we haven't had that in the club for a long time. And that's a miss. That is a miss. Football is about goals. It's not always about combinations and the collective. It's about that last action, that last thing. They're the things you remember. When Deckenreistock hit top corner, I'll never forget it. Never forget it. For all the things he did, the tackles he won, he's the only player in the PFA Awards this year from Arsenal, he's done his job.

1:12:34Elliot:But that goals and those goals will stay with me forever. It's the goals you remember, the last action. They're the things that make you excited. and I think we just need to up our desire to do that more often from everybody we brought a couple of selfish blokes in up front that really want to attack the box hit the box hard hit shots high shots high box touches that's two let's get another one let's get another one shake this show up let's shake it I don't mean the players are there are bad they'd have to adjust maybe it's rather than lay off they've got to take their shots be more aggressive to get in position and staying position to get their shots if it don't they're not going to play this so means it changes the mentality of the group so i want to see another one come in this goal focus last action focus because then it makes everybody think what do i need to do to stay in this room to keep my job they have to change so there you go there is a part of me that thinks all of this analysis and I'm sorry to undercut it, Clive, because it was really well said, is that dumb guy, smart guy meme, you know, the bell curve meme, where on the left it's like, need player who kick ball and net good.

1:13:47I said that. And in the middle of it, it's like, we need wide progression that leads to central access, that leads to more XG per shot. And then on the other side of the bell curve is, need guy who kicks ball and net good. you know it's the genius on one side the dummy on the other and it's like there is a part of me that's like huh when we had a 16 year old ethan winery or 17 or whatever it was 17 year old ethan winery and sent central midfielder michael marino and gabriel martinelli up front wow our attack just didn't look very good you know meanwhile erling freaking holland is at city and muhammad salaz breaking records at liverpool and they've got trent alexander arnold one of the most creative players in the history of the league full stop and weird they look pretty good and it's like yeah you know what football actually often winds up being about the most talented players being in their best form guzmany dembele is one of the best players in world football duwe and cavara are right up there and you know that team looked pretty good when they were all flowing and in form and it's like i wonder if you know the reason peak barcelona won as much as they did was Pep Guardiola's brilliant tactics.

1:14:59That might have been some of it. You know what might have been some of it? Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, and this guy named Messi, and Suarez, and Thierry Henry. And it's like, there is a part of me that just thinks, you want to win everything? Forget the nitpicking over tactics, and go by as a Anleow. Go by the play. You know, we've got Yokoz. He kicks ball hard in net. That's going to help. How about a guy who slides little cute passes in and can score from outside the box? How about a guy who can dribble past someone off the left instead of dribbling it out for a corner? Like, there is a part of me that thinks as much as coaches matter, and they clearly matter, they can never matter as much as someone who can score 25 goals in a season or give you 17 assists.

1:15:43And that is fundamentally the disconnect in football. We always are going to point to a manager when a project isn't coming to fruition. But at the end of the day, the best players win the most stuff. You know, they just do. And we need the best players. Yeah, we do.

1:15:58Elliot:And we'd all, well, many of us would like the Alinez coming, and that's it. We'd all like the shiny next thing, right? But I will say that Mikel Arturo has given us a great platform from which to succeed from. But I don't, well, it's clear. The numbers are out there. We haven't invested in those forwards as we should have done. No. Let's be honest. Martinelli and Saka have been brilliant for us, but he didn't buy them. Do you know what I mean? And so we haven't invested in those areas enough. You know, we've made a great job with Trossard. Kai Havertz, people will complain about him and where he was originally brought from.

1:16:33Elliot:I think he was brought to play up front and in midfield. And they weren't too worried where he was. But he ends up being the better centre forward because we lost the other one. The investment in Jesus has been something that's worked in periods, but has maybe failed over the longer period just due to health and fitness. And that was his major investment as a forward. So now we're investing. And so this is it now. We're investing in forwards. And it's the right thing to do. You made a great point there about the other forwards and the other teams. When we turn up with our forwards, I think people think, yeah, Arsenal can score.

1:17:12Elliot:They've scored the third most in the league. And they scored record 91 goals the year before. But we just score it in such a varied way. there isn't a point where you go I am apart from Saka where I am petrified right if there's only one point where you're petrified you know what you do you kick that point until you can't get up anymore you know and that's what's happening and so we're getting slowed down on that side and we're looking a little bit slower and a little bit stale but that's evolution if you don't recognize that and don't change that's the problem you have I think we've recognized it and I think we're about to change and I'm looking forward to these two games massively this week I can't wait can't wait and to see if I can see some behaviors and just some technical tweaks even if it's only small small doses of you can see what the messages have been sent to players based on how they react in transition in particular how they react to each other on certain actions you get away with them when you're in the first phase of your preseason now we're looking for tactical nuances to prepare for the Manchester United game and to top up minutes for certain players that could be behind like Gabriel and Timber, for example.

1:18:24Elliot:Top them up. People need topping up. Top them. There's a period here where we need to show ourselves. This is what we're about. And this is coming this week, mate. And probably a behind-close-jaws friendly, I presume, next week in the middle of the week to finalise a few things before we go out to OT. I think before we get out of here, we absolutely have to, and that's all really well said, and I agree with it. you know look we're going to be talking about these topics for a long time so let's save some meat on the bone you know as we go but best players tend to win best stuff let's make sure we have the best players to the extent possible um there are questions about liverpool and saudi arabia and what's going on there and zazima asks hi are we concerned how saudi will pretty much fund the liverpool izak purchase with them buying nunez liverpool seem to continue to be fortunate fortunate, fortunate with their business relationships there, 2023 sales.

1:19:16And now this, they did invest an awful lot of money in the live golf tour. There's some reporting, and I don't know if it's reporting or just rumors that they were going to invest potentially in, you know, in Saudi football. And, you know, they, they are looking into multi-club ownership and the multi-club model is continuing to make life easier for some clubs. You know, I don't know if you heard my transfer daily, Clive, but I just, I absolutely love that Girona and Manchester City were able to find an agreement on a move like that. That's heartwarming seeing those two clubs able to negotiate in good faith together, you know?

1:19:48Wow. Wow. That's just, that's amazing how two clubs like that can, can find a deal that helps them both. But, you know, all kidding aside, what do you think about this current situation between Liverpool and Saudi Arabia? Nunez to Saudi, Izak to Liverpool, Newcastle get out of their PSR woes. With Izak money, Liverpool get out of their issues. With Nunez money, and everybody shakes hands and walks away happy, except for Newcastle fans and Arsenal fans. But that's another story.

1:20:17Elliot:I'm sure Newcastle fans will recover down the road when their owners can flex their muscles, and I'm sure they'll be absolutely fine. Mike and Sesco, you never know. Yeah, exactly. And they'll probably end up with that. and this is top level business, right? So I don't want to go too deep into it, because I haven't read up enough and I'm not an expert in this space, but it doesn't smell great, right? But it feels like Arsenal. No one wants to play with us in the playground. We're like Arsenal. No one wants to play with us because we're like an establishment club. We do things the right way, blah, blah, blah.

1:20:50Elliot:The moment we don't, we get told about it. But we're Arsenal and we've got no friends out there. None, right? So we have to do things our way and be happy with it, you know? And that's important to me. I don't want, you know, I never wanted, oh, I'm going to say this now, but it did cross my mind. Would it be nice to get somebody to just come along and just bring all the money and just get rid of all the debts? We've all thought about that in our time, right? 95 million for Martinelli to hell alone. Just come along and just buy the club and just make us the richest club in the world. Well, Newcastle have got that.

1:21:26Elliot:How does it feel? they won their first trophy it feels probably frustrating from they can't really flex their financial muscles um but i'm i'm i'm cool with the way we do things right i am and um i get frustrated that we find it so difficult to move people on i look around everyone else needs to get the numbers they want and you look behind you just wonder why is that happening but i can only wonder he says allegedly i can only wonder and um and hope that our new crazy hard-working sporting director can find some new connections that we didn't previously have to move people out of the building so we can get the pretty players who want to come in that can hold our dreams.

1:22:05Elliot:That's what I'm hoping for. Yeah. Well, we'll have to see. I mean, I agree with you. I think it's dangerous to wade too strongly into this area because I'm certainly not an expert on it. My one question in the back of my mind is, you know, Liverpool have a guy in Michael Edwards who's very, very good at this squad building stuff. But if you want to build relationships with the Saudi Public Investment Fund or whatever. It's not Michael Edwards doing that. It's John Henry, right? It's the owners. It's the billionaires talking to billionaires. And so I wonder, you know, Stan or Josh, like are the Cronkies engaged in having those kinds of conversations to build those relationships that can provide you some, I don't want to say dodgy because I don't even know if it's dodgy, but just some friendly relationships that wind up supporting your interest and you support their interest.

1:22:57There's a mutuality of interest because I don't think Andrea Berta is going to have those high-level conversations with the Saudi Public Investment Fund. I don't think Michael Edwards is. That's something that happens at the absolute top of the food chain. And I realize I'm getting, like I said, I'm getting into an area I don't know well, but I would suspect that these kinds of things, when Chelsea get bailed out by someone or do a weird deal, it's Todd Bowley doing it. When FSG do it, it's John Henry And I do wonder if, and maybe they are, by the way, maybe Stan and Josh are having these kinds of conversations with the absolute, you know, most influential people in the game behind the scenes.

1:23:32But I think that's the only way that these kinds of deals come to fruition.

1:23:35Elliot:Yeah. I suppose we have to look after our own priorities. If I'm Arsenal and some of this is out there, so I'm not speaking at a school or anything like that. We've got an Emirates deal coming up in 2028. There are, there are chats around changing the ground, upgrading the ground to get to 80 ,000. I'm sure the execs in the club are focused on that. We're focused on getting funding in for that to make sure that it doesn't affect the football side. We've gone down that path before and it did affect the football side. And I think we have to deal with our own priorities where the game is going, make sure we can up our revenues, commercial value going up.

1:24:14Elliot:We just cracked 600 million for the first time. This is where we're heading. so how we get there it's going to be interesting so the execs live two three years in the future to us i'm sure they're the things that they're focused on how can they can make get more out of the adidas deal i'm sure there are things that they're just working towards right so um and this reinvigoration of the squad is a key step the re-signing of players is a key step in that because football underpins your ability to go to people to borrow money etc they're underpinned so that's why i come back to that statement what does success look like you just have to compete at the top level what do we fans want we want to win what do the execs want if i'm at the top level i can project forward you know and that's the key with confidence to grow this club to be a true custodian for us going forward that's what they think and primarily and they want the trophies as well so they're investing in that so it took a while to get here we're here we maybe dropped a couple of years on the way here right we dropped a couple post-COVID years to get Cleedasquad out.

1:25:19Elliot:Probably took a year longer than it should. And then you may be paused in the last edu summer, shall we say. So you may be dropped a couple of years in this project. But we're well positioned now to go forward. So I look forward to it. Last one, and we'll do it very quickly. But I can't leave without asking this one because I think it's a nice, light question. This comes from Alessandra Hedgeblog. We have a tough opening. Very. How many points would be a good return? And let me read you the fixtures we're talking about. It's the first six. United away, Leeds at home, Liverpool away, Forest at home, City at home, Newcastle away.

1:25:58Oh, damn. It's, I think, the most difficult first six fixtures I've ever seen for Arsenal in the Premier League. It includes Newcastle, Liverpool, and United away. It includes City, Forest were, you know, no easy points. I mean, what's good? So let's assume for it to be good, it's going to require three at home to Forest and three at home to Leeds. That's six. So of those other four, United away, Liverpool away, Newcastle away, and City at home. What do we have to do there?

1:26:32Elliot:So what's that? How many games is that? Six or seven games? It's six. I'm going to say, reduce it to the four. What do we have to do in the four? In Liverpool away, United away, Newcastle away, City at home. I do think United away is a really important one Honestly I know it's only the first game But I do think it's really important I mean we've been set up badly there We've really been set up for a kick in haven't we And when you talk about short term goals I just want to make sure after those first six seven games That we're all still friends That's my first goal Because it could be anything couldn't it It could be anything But if we do well in those games we are really well positioned I do have a little worry about the physical state of certain players that we haven't seen yet particularly the forwards really what shape they're going to be in but yeah I keep saying it but this week is really these two friendlies are important but yeah United we can deal with United and I'm watching them they're running about a bit they're counter pressing a little bit more you know Brian and Bremont can hold that ball so can Cunha they're available to receive it and their first one touch around the corner is nice.

1:27:43Elliot:You know, they looked good, but then they don't look good. And you see Bruno in the corner of his area playing someone onside for the back post. What's he doing there? So they've still got structural issues. They've still got individuals who don't stand what they should do. So I still think you can pick them off. But they're better than they were. And they couldn't be much worse. They've got a lot to achieve. So for me, I'm focused on that first game massively. And then from there, I think we'll gain a lot from that position. That leads into the second game, the home game. And from there, I think we're going to be in good shape health-wise.

1:28:17Elliot:So I look at the three games first in block, because I think it's the international break after three games. Those first three games, if we can come out of there with nine, I tell you, the international break will be beautiful. And then we can really see what we're about. And then we go to the next ones with a little bit more confidence. Any conception of that run of six games requires six points from the Forest and Leeds games at home. So I'm going to set those aside. and say from the other four, eight from 12 would be the bar I'd set. Two wins, two draws. Try to win at Old Trafford. Hope you beat City at home or beat Newcastle away.

1:28:52The key is don't lose to City or Liverpool, right? Yeah. Because if you think those are the teams we're directly competing with, any loss in those fixtures is really, really damaging. So don't lose at Anfield because obviously if you do that, It mandates winning at the Emirates, but it gives you that much lower margin for error over the course of the season. So my requirement would be eight from those 12, but then 14 from those 18 would be a really, really good return, obviously.

1:29:29Elliot:Yeah, it could be interesting because they fear us too, by the way. You listen to Liverpool channels, they know what we're trying to do, what we're trying to be. They're excited about their potential signings, obviously. But they look around and we're not in bad shape. So let's see how we do. We've been going for ages. Let's stop now. We'll have patron stuff all this week. Lots of good stuff coming up. We're going to do our season prediction pod not too far in the distant future. We'll have instant reactions after the Villarreal and Athletic Games. So come join us. AVP50 is the code. You get half off the first month.

1:29:58You're paying a couple bucks to get pretty much a pod every day during the week and even now that the games are back on the weekend as well. And, you know, I keep hearing that if you give us a review, That actually helps people discover the pod. So if you don't mind on Spotify or Apple or wherever you are, you can give us five-star review or like or subscribe or do whatever the thing the kids are supposed to do these days. Apparently that helps people find us and we'd love to have more people find us and come join and be a part of this. So thanks for the great questions. Thanks for listening. This was a really fun chat and I know we've been going a long time.

1:30:27So if you've made it this far, a gold star for you. Clive, thanks very much.

1:30:30Elliot:Thank you very much. My name is Alex Smith. I love you very, very much. We all love you. And we'll talk to you after Arsenal 10. VRA on them.

1:30:41Tobiasu and Kai Havertz and Martinelli! And Arsenal are flying!

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