Mailbag – What To Make of Mikel Merino?

36:30He does kind of 10-ish, 9-ish, running, connecting, and goals kind of come. they emerge from our style of play. Whereas Jarkeres has set patterns. You know what he's going to do. He's going to come at you. And so I get it. He's the most defined striker. And Havertz is kind of a tweenie player. I mean, we're debating, will he be a nine or a 10 more for us this season? We're not asking that about Jarkeres. We're not asking, will he play on the wing a bit, will he start from the left? Very defined profile. I think Jokeres will start more than anybody by some measure at striker. But we will alternate, rotate, and Havertz may, you know, we may see a lot more kind of 9 and 10, two forwards playing together in games than we have seen for a long time.

37:30There's not a lot of spots when you pick a starting 11 with all the players available and you like Marino and you like Rice and you like Odegaard, and suddenly it starts filling in. But somehow I think the season will provide opportunities. The Greek gods will smite a number of players along the way, and we'll see maybe partnerships we haven't seen before evolve. And we might love Jokeresh and Havertz starting with Rice and Zubimendi behind them, and Eze and Sackhoff, the wings and california fiori charging into midfield and we're like how did we ever see it

38:10Elliot:any different cut yeah exactly that it's so early at the moment i i'm a kai havers fan there goes my there goes my comment i'm a kai havers fan um and what i saw pre-season was he was moving really really well and there's no doubt in my mind he would have signed at old trafford without a doubt and um yoke's got to come on and stormtrooped that late on while he's adjusting and getting fit now he's doing that in front of our eyes so we're judging him accordingly and let's hope he's doing extra shuttles when he's away on international duty with him and he's acting extra work to get ready for to play um but we haven't seen that yet we haven't seen what we we did i mean look and it will the way my brain is tuned now because of watching this team so much without a real center forward i've often thought you know a player that we all like we would have we would have sent the world on fire we'd have bought him and not bought a centre forward but someone like Antoine Semenya who's the sort of player who's a multifunctional forward that can play in central areas but really plays in the half spaces and drives forward that type of player I could easily see in our group and we don't buy a Yoccares right but we had to buy a centre forward and we haven't got that centre forward gene in the club and you heard me say we need that because there's going to be a game where you need someone to be in those areas to put the ball in the back of the net and we had too many draws last year where we didn't have that so you can't turn away from the profiles that we need and i think he was the best option i think he'll prove that throughout the season i don't think he's gonna be the main strike i think he'll be one of two and that was developing throughout the season and i think he'll play a lot of games he'll have a lot of minutes and i think when kai's back he'll do exactly the same and that is a modern game so yeah i i'm not too concerned about this at the moment i just wish um i look forward to even in four weeks time when we have a bigger chunk bigger sample size to really see who we are but every time i pick up my phone someone's out for three weeks do you mean and so that really that's that is a bigger concern to me it is interesting too i think one of the reasons we are so laser focused on yorkers is we have so many players who are hybrids in a way, who don't clearly fit into a role exactly the way we'd expect.

40:34Rice was raised as a center back, we thought was a six and is playing eight, right? Kai Havertz is a tweener, as Paul already pointed out. Mikel Marino, as we already pointed out, no one totally knows exactly how he is. Eze is a left 10 that we bought to potentially play left wing. Nani Meduake is a right wing who we bought to play left wing, right? We have all these players. Calafiore is a center back who plays left back but plays striker. All the things that you were saying, Paul, that Clive has pointed out, Miles Lewis-Skelly is an academy player who was raised in midfield and became a star left back for us.

41:04These are sort of weird times at Arsenal where players' positions are fluid and they're only wherever Mikel wants to put them. And then we get this guy who's like, stick on nine. Can he play? No, he's a nine. But what if he's a nine? You know, we're like, great, clarity, finally. But when you have clarity, then you laser focus in on that clarity. And I do think that getting the most out of him is important. I think there is a way to get the most out of him. And I think we should be a little bit patient. I know that's not the word of the day in terms of letting partnerships develop. All three of the strikers who have come in from other leagues have not looked super convincing yet.

41:43But we'll see. But I do think that there's more to come from him. And having said that, when Kai Havertz is fit, that's a hell of a player to try to keep out of the squad. So you want depth. You have to be prepared for the idea that these players are battling for their time on the pitch. And we've got some questions about that and where the minutes go at left wing in particular, plus Miles and Ethan questions and, my favorite, a soft factory emotional question. But if we're going to get into our feelings, nothing gets me in my feelings like telling you about Shopify. because I get emotional about the idea of you having the best e-commerce store possible.

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46:32Is that enough of that?

46:34Elliot:Indeed. I went on a bit there, but as you can tell, I am a passionate man, and my passions will not be restrained.

46:44Clive, I'm not going to ask you the emotional question. I'm not going to do that to you. How about this? With Eze Martinelli and Trussard vying for the left-wing position alongside Nani Maduike when Saka's fit, which one will get the least amount of minutes? it's pretty crowded over there, isn't it? Who's the odd man out? They can't all share the role, nor would we want them to. There's going to be a clear hierarchy. How do you see the odd man out developing there?

47:13Elliot:Well, in the short term, maybe Trossard will be the false knight. Kai Havertz has been out for how many weeks? It depends on what you read. 12. So I think he's going to drop into that. So you could say, if I'm answering the question exactly, or precisely, he'll be the odd man out. And football changes very, very quickly. so Martin Ellinger's in the mud right now as soon as he gets a shot on target we'll all say Martin Ellinger's not a bad player When will he do that? Do you think? As soon as he beats someone and goes past him in the 60 top corner he'll just come back and that's the key and the key is just to keep trusting them even though they're struggling you've got to keep trusting them and hope they turn it around At the moment we all want to see Eze so the answer is Eze will get the most minutes you know and Madaweke looks very strong at the moment, very strong.

48:01Elliot:He had a good game for England and what I do like about him is he sees the running behind and he just goes and he almost forces the pass and I think Madaweke is almost telling Martinelli how to do it, how to sort of stay in the player on the ball's eye line, tell him what you want and make your action so definite that the ball has to come and I think, whenever I talk to players I always say the same thing if you want the ball that way tell people you want it that way go and speak to them tell them you want it over I'm going to give you the eye contact but I'm spinning I'm going too many times I see Mark Lele running and not getting the ball who do you want to blame I don't really care you're on the pitch for a finite mere period of time you maximize it as a player and make sure everyone knows what you want and keep making their runs when they don't give you the ball give them a rollicking you know and that's it unless this is elite football you might have two of those runs a game you can't waste them you know by being a secret you know so so yeah i i think martin may struggle at the moment but that could change in a in a week he's paying for brazil right now looking a little bit better in against lower quality opposition bilge's confidence but i think martin probably would want to miss out at the moment elliot but one of our one of our listeners did a great question i hope you're not going to ask it but i saw it come through and say that Paul said last week, I thought it was really good.

49:25Elliot:When Jokeres was fading in that game at Liverpool, we sort of took Martinelli off. Well, actually, should we have moved Martinelli to centre forward to keep them back? Rather than a fading threat in Jokeres where he's still not fit enough, we kept him on. By bringing on Eze for Jokeres maybe, and you've still got a sprinter down the middle and that would have made them think maybe, make a bit more active because I think he's fitter at the moment. I thought it was a really good question. So will Martinelli be a late game center forward? You know, but again, trust that he's fit now. So we've got all the options, haven't we?

50:02Elliot:So I thought it was a really good assessment. Paul, you raised it first. I think one of our questioners did it last week as well. Well, Paul, then I'm going to ask you a tricky question and maybe one that you just dismiss out of hand. We'll find out, I guess, together. Big Red Arsenal at bigredarsenal.bsky.social says, the majority of the criticism for Martinelli's flatlining performances has been directed at the player himself, but do you think Mikel and his coaching staff might be getting off lightly? We had a world-class talent. Do you think we could have developed it differently in terms of role or position?

50:43Just that seems like an easy out for the player, and I think I've been very supportive of Martinelli along the way. I think there's a much better player than the player we've seen. And generally I see with him a very positive mentality, whether he's starting or not starting. I never see, like, you know, Trosser can look a little sulkier, a little bit more nose-out-of-joint if he's not on the pitch or proven. You never get that with Martinelli. So I think he's one of those guys who's done a remarkably good job at keeping his head clear and positive. Now, obviously, he's struggling a little bit with confidence and his own game.

51:23And kind of something I said the last time we talked about him, you know, there was a time we used to talk. Tim would talk about how he used to play the street football thing from Brazil. And that's where he'd get these tricks and he'd do these things. He'd be like, oh, where did that come from? Well, where did it go to? so there is a confidence aspect of it but at the end of the day the player has to do it and I don't think you get a lot of vibes that Mikel doesn't look to give players a platform to play and the support and we had Carlos what's his face we win the dog for God's sake we had was it Quenta what was the name Cuesta.

52:10Cuesta, right, there you go. Like, he was the guy who'd sit down with you and make you feel good and talk to you about your feeling. Like, I don't get any sense that this is an environment where you don't get the support, the coaching, the understanding of what's going on. He's had a lot of opportunities. I don't think he's always had the left side build-up that would suit his game. and I kind of think but like time starts to run out he used to be a bit of a shot monster now he is not when we're playing in transition his head isn't up enough and a lot of those things are confidence things making the choices and it may just be that the best thing for him is having him and Eze competing and sharing games opportunities a little bit of heat off him and maybe he can play more than one role, as we talked about.

53:11Maybe he's the left wing, but also a guy who can come on at 70 minutes or games where we're pushed back and counterattacking and we need a guy to streak up the pitch, run in behind. But I do think he needs to kind of take a little bit of a step back, re-find himself. But no, I don't get the vibe at all that, in Martinelli's case, that he hasn't had the support, the coaching, the wherewithal to be effective and successful for us. Clip?

53:45Elliot:Yeah, don't burn this guy to death, but I think he's probably been suffered due to us changing. And so without mentioning the word toothpaste, but you know what I mean by our back line coming up the pitch. We've moved on to pancake analogies now. I don't know if you'd be following that. but that's indicative of our back line, squeezing up the pitch, right? And the higher we've got, the less space we're playing in. And what is Martin? Is he a big space player or is he a small space player? He's a big space player. So now we're asking him to develop in small spaces and become an intricate dribbler.

54:20Elliot:You know what? Trossard and Eze are better at that, aren't they? They're better in small spaces. They like to trick people, see people, see where they are, feel them, and create combinations in small areas. and so our game has changed when he arrived into our team we had this young team traveling up the pitch with two 21 year olds on the outside sprinting their hearts out nobody tripled them you know i mean no one tried to kick him and we just went up the pitch saka would give him the ball quickly and he could just run run free my son run free they haven't worked us out yet and then suddenly we got better and we squeezed the life out of teams now we're giving him the ball and soon he gets the ball he looks up and there's kieran tripier ready for him and right behind him is bruno if you get past him and right behind him is fabian char got get past all three of them son and get a crossing on your wrong foot the game's changed the game's changed and he has to develop and so my theory with him was always move off the ball give it and go but go hard in behind the center four because that's that creates your transition game it's like a mini transition but you've got to be a movement player not a static player now people say that's the manager clive he's coached you out of him well i don't think he is i think we've got better and he suffered for it but who else has suffered for it zinchenko suffered for it because we exposed that left back a lot he's suffered hasn't been able to go with it other players have not been able to go with it not be able to defend man for man at the back so they've gone you know me feels that can't get around the pitch like sambi and then create jewels and get it and give it they're gone you know and that's what happens some you know smith rowe wasn't able to physically do what we want him to do off the ball in particular he's gone you know so it's just natural evolution it's hard because we like them all you know paul's got a smith row shirt he told me at the live dude i'm sure he'd like to see him play every time he comes on a performance does well we all think oh he's a good player you know but we've gone we've gone somewhere else right We've got Declan Rice doing that job on the left-hand side.

56:25Elliot:We've got Madweke running up and down. And they're stronger, more powerful, more execution, I'm afraid. And it's the nature of the game, right? So Martinelli, I hope he comes back. I've killed him a lot. I don't want to kill him, but he's got work to do. Can I add a bit? Yeah. Like the challenge from like, Clive made a great point about, you know, if the opponent is sitting in, Eze is the kind of trickier, more creative option from the left. The other problem Martinelli has is Eze is bloody brilliant on the counter-attack or transition football. So it's like both types of games, both game states show off Eze's real strength.

57:07And Eze's super heads up, right? He's looking around at his options. He's very cool with the ball when the heat's on, which is something we haven't always seen in transition. So look, Martinelli has his work cut out for him. but it's an opportunity for him to learn, and there are different players for him to combine with, and Jokeresh appeals to the left, so Martinelli can maybe move to the inside. I think the one place he has a bit of a superpower is alternating from the left to central when we have enough movement, like those runs in behind central, while Jokeresh are kind of like the Red Arrows, a military aircraft, Elliot, and the patterns they form.

57:51They can red arrows it on the left. He needs to develop some partnerships and relationships with Calafiore charging up. That's his challenge. He can't do it on his own, and especially now that opponents have kind of figured him out. He's got to build these new partnerships with Calafiore, with Yachoresh, with whoever the most common left eight, probably Declan Rice is in this scenario. But with Declan maybe sitting back a little bit more with Zubimendi and them interchanging, there's space up there for them to form new patterns and that's his challenge. That's what he's going to have to do. A few things here.

58:33And this is undoubtedly the section people are going to hate the most, even more than Elliot talks about the England national team, if you can believe it. There are two things that a player wants to do when they decide to become a professional footballer. One is earn enough money to support themselves and their family for a lifetime. And two is achieve personal glory or glory for themselves and the team they play for. Martinelli has achieved objective one, came to Arsenal for 5 million pounds as a teenager, and he now earns enough money that he will never have to work again. He has achieved some glory.

59:09He plays for the Brazil national team, pulls on the Brazil shirt. as a teenager from Ituano making a 5 million pound speculative move that may not have been something he dreamt of being I'm sure he dreamt of it being in his future none of us would have expected and he's gotten there Gabriel Martinelli is a stunning success as a player and whether his future is with Arsenal or not he is a success period end of story for all the things players want maybe except for that last little piece of glory and that may still be out there for him but we cannot demand success of our manager in our club and at the same time have sacred cows who we just keep waiting for and just keep saying, well, if the manager used him differently, if we'd trained him, if we had just tried him in this other position, those things might all be true.

59:52But you know what else might be true? We have to move to a new era at that position. And that player, no matter how talented, may not be the fit for it for us to achieve what we want. And by the way, this is the pancakes, waffles things. People will say, oh, you'll say that about Martinelli, but not Odegaard. You like pancakes. Why don't you like waffles? Odegaard's a different conversation. We can have that one too. That's not the one we're having. We're having this one. Right now, Gabriel Martinelli is a very talented player who makes a fabulous wage at a huge club. He's been a huge success, but I'm not convinced at this point that we can get to the level we want to get if we are relying on him regularly at that position.

1:00:28It is not killing him or his talent, and it may well prove that the manager failed him or all the things people want to say, but for me, we cannot demand the level of success we are demanding and also have sacred cows. You could say we should have been more patient with Fabio Vieira. There's a talent in there. We should have been more patient with Sambi La Conga. There's a talent in there. This is top-level football, and unfortunately, it's ruthless. And it is the waiting too long that costs you more than the going too soon. My biggest criticism with Eddie Nketiah is that we waited too long. The 11 games we started him two seasons ago might be the difference between us and Mikel having a Premier League title.

1:01:05So you have to kill your darlings, as we say. You cannot have these players who have a privileged position of just being in the team, and there may be others in our team that you feel that way about. But I don't want to go too much further on this topic, Clive, but I'll give you just a final word on this, which is simply, it is not killing a player to say that they are talented, but that at this time in our evolution, we may be at a point where their ability to take us to where we want to go has run its course to some extent.

1:01:38Elliot:It could well be the case. You said that beautifully. It's hard, right? Because we like these players genuinely, right? All of us here would love to see this player shoved his right up our throats. Clive, I made a mug about him. We made a shirt about him. I loved this. He was like my boy. But there's also a lot of people, a lot of people that expect for Althor to win something this season. And that is taking priority in many people's minds. And there are many, many people internal and external saying, we've got to win one of the league or the Champions League. One we've never won and the other one we haven't won for 20 plus years.

1:02:20Elliot:But we've got to win it this season. And by the way, the other teams are spending money and it's like we have no competition. We have to win it this season. And for that to be the case, then we have to accept that we're going to have to improve some position, which we have done. And we have said to the outside world, we've signed eight players. And in our minds, because we are so nice as fans, oh, this is a good squad now. We've got the depth we need. has anybody thought for a second that actually a majority of those eight might actually play a lot of games because the guys that were in the position to win didn't quite do it weren't robust enough it's all on the table right we've done this for a reason we've done this for a reason to try to win and to create a competitive environment to create that extra edge and i'm here to see how it all unfolds yeah and um and martin nelly is part of that picture and if he either steps up or i'm afraid it's like hey for anybody else he won't play right simple as that yeah i mean and and just so we're clear right there's an idea of like hey support support the players of course when i go to the ground i sing my heart out for every player that's out there and support the players you know in terms of wanting to see them succeed of course but analysis is analysis and i I think in your analysis, you have to discuss what's best for the club to achieve the things it wants to achieve.

1:03:50And we have four options in that position now. And that is a situation that is going to create a lot of pressure. And if we win the Premier League, kind of none of these players are going to care, right? If you're a role—like Edu was an invincible. He didn't start every game. if Martinelli's career moves on and he goes to another club but he leaves as a Premier League winner it's going to be great for him now I'm not wishing him out the door I hope he takes that step up to where we saw him and at the end of the day look if you win everybody's going to be happy even Trossard will be walking around with a smile on his face well come on let's not write fan fiction so you know this is the season we really, really go for it, and not everybody's going to be a starter.

1:04:39Yeah, well, so we got another question about minutes that I think is also relevant, so we might as well bring this up. Bobby Northbank asks, Last season, injuries helped us discover how amazing Miles and Ethan are, but also forced us to rely on them more than we maybe would have wanted. This season, do you think they will be happy with cut minutes and late sub appearances like a normal 18-year-old, or would a lone move with regular starts really help them more? I'll stay with you for this, Paul, just for a second. I think it's a really interesting point, right? Had they not been as central to our plans last season as they were, they might have been more comfortable with a glide path into the team this season.

1:05:13But Miles in particular became an England international and our first choice left back last season. And Ethan made a lot of starts. So are they going to be happy with the role that seems available to them now? What's your take? So they're going to measure themselves all the time in practice against these players. And they're going to be itching to get starts. And by the way, there's a lot of games. and one or two of their rivals for a position are not 100 % fit all the time and you get a run of games and you do really well and then you're hard to get out of the team. That's the nature of the beast.

1:05:48They're young. I think the balance in the dressing room of the personalities will keep it all pretty stable. They both seem very level-headed guys who should. And it's going to be a little challenging because they're going to want more than maybe they're getting at the moment, especially with Miles in the England setup. That's going to create an urgency and immediacy for opportunities, but he's away with England right now. And I'm sure, look, I'm sure Miles is going to get plenty of game time. I think the challenging one is going to be Ethan, because he's a talented player, but the second half of last season, he didn't get much of a look in, and when he did get a look in, he didn't really put his personality on the game, whereas Miles always puts his personality on the game.

1:06:44And I don't know if it's just the challenge of where they play on the pitch, But that's the one where I could see Ethan's frustration. We've brought in more players who play in that section of the pitch that are going to squash his minutes. You know, you've got Marino's got a fine time, Eze on the pitch, Martinelli, Trossard, blah, blah, blah. You know, there's a lot of players that are those kind of, that who gets to play this week that's going to give Ethan some pressure. You know, we had Max Downman come on as the super sub option when we needed to kind of do something interesting from the right, not Ethan.

1:07:23He's got loads on his plate there. But look, it's down to him. He's got to show more personality when he comes on than maybe he has done for a little while. He's super talented. Yeah. Yeah. Look, I'm going to lean on something I just said because repeating things that got you both nodding tends to be a good strategy for me. But simply, I want Ethan and Miles to be at Arsenal for the next 15 years. I want them to win things at Arsenal. I want them to be stars. But that's not my goal. My goal is for Arsenal to win things. And so Ethan and Miles will play as much as their talent and their performances allow them, right?

1:08:01Clive, I mean, do we worry sometimes too much about we need to win everything, but also how are we going to get Ethan and Miles on the pitch? Like you can't have it both ways. They will play because they're talented. They may play less than they want if their performances aren't at the level needed. They may play more than we expect if their game goes to a new level and they push people out of the team. Is it kind of just now they have to compete and we should be comfortable with that?

1:08:24Elliot:Yeah, they have to compete. They would expect that too when they sign their contract. They know the score. It's not an easy path. You have to fight against international players who also want to play. like that's the only currency that matters in football is minutes all right and so they're gonna have to fight for theirs i do think um they are way ahead of their peers like you look around all the england youth team look at the minutes that they've had they've got a lot of minutes i did feel a little bit so free from when max came on at liverpool from icu that was a bit of a gut feel i thought that must have stunned a little bit you know but he's had a conversation the manager he wants to develop in the interior then who's to know max's first pathway may be on the exterior of the team at his age that's a safer place to put him although watching him at the weekend i'm not sure how safe that looked the amount of fouls i think he had nine fouls against him at the weekend playing against spain under 19s that was he's a special they asked him down time they did and he and he's so the world is so wicked i mean there's chat there now saying he's a diver now for getting hacked down nine times in a game the the guy got booked on his seventh foul yeah i think the only discussion to have is what are these referees doing here's how bad it was clive there was a penalty the penalty was literally he just kicked him in the box he didn't care the number 16 for spain his name is escaping me right he just kicked him right in the box just kicked him in the leg yeah yeah and they just it was embarrassing to be honest and uh there's a bit of a scrap after the final whistle with the England players protecting you know saying what the hell's going on you know and fair play to another the FA one like that but for me I think that's brilliant I bet the coach in dressing room said well done that's that's what you do is to cut for your teammates sort of thing and so that stung Ethan a little bit and um so yeah I Chelsea would have loaned him out by now to Strasbourg they would have loaned him they'd have plumped his value up somewhere else and sold him for 50 million right so but the fact that Chelsea would have bought him this year tells you he's not reached his potential there's money in him and we've got him signed and he's our asset now to do what we want to do with and I hope we do the right thing and I'm very proud of the club for having those three teenagers into our first team squad I think it's amazing Paul said a lie there about personality him and Miles have different personalities.

1:10:46Elliot:That's absolutely clear to anybody just watching. One is a bit more introverted and the other one isn't and we don't need to guess that which way around that is. And the position that Ethan wants to play requires a level of football personality and that's going to take a bit of time to develop. He's 18. How many 18-year-old tens are running around in the Premier League, let alone in the top six clubs? I can't think of one. Look how long it took for Phil Foden to be trusted by his manager. Now Phil Foden's got all the medals in the back, his back pocket, but it took a long time for him to get that trust.

1:11:23Elliot:You know, people say, you've got to loan him out, you've got to loan him out. Well, they kept him, they kept moving him around, they kept dipping him in, dipping him out, until eventually that season when he was player of the year, although I thought that was wrong, but he was player of the year, he delivered in the final third of the season by scoring those long shots into the net, and he won City that league when I felt we were as good as them, at least. you know so gotta be patient and that was probably Phil Foden at 23 24 we gotta be patient so I'm not worried at all yeah they're great players and they're going to play but they are teenagers and they are not the best version of themselves yet I mean it sounds crazy but five years from now is when you should start to see the best of what they are five right so if they are role players in a team that's trying to win the Premier League and the Champions League for the next three or four seasons, they're still very much on track to have a hugely successful Arsenal career.

1:12:24I mean, it is the case that by the time Max Dowman is of the age when you'd expect him to be starting for a big club, Pakayo Saka will be retired. You know what I mean? Like, so we're saying, well, how's he going to come through with Saka on the right? Saka will be in a rocking chair when Max Downman is 25 years old. So it's like, it is one of these things that we worry about because the news cycle and our urgency about things has gotten so immediate, right? Everything is so immediate. You're only as good as your last performance. We only care about the next lineup. But clubs do not have the luxury of thinking that way.

1:13:03And they have to build for long-term success while achieving short-term success. And I don't think there'll be a lot of people, if we start Max, Ethan, and Miles Lewis-Skelly every game this season and finish third, I don't think people are going to be saying, wow, what an amazing season. We're so good. We started three teenagers and finished third. I don't think that's going to be the reaction. So, you know, we're balancing priorities here and we'll finish with this then because I think it is the thing that I'm struggling with, certainly, and I'm sure other people are as well. So, and unfortunately, I think I may, oh, no, here we go.

1:13:41Let's find it. I want to name check the person who asked the question. I may just have to ask the question and then come back to name check them because I am struggling. Here it is. I got it. Felipe, Alejandro, Paul, how do you balance the joy of being a fan of one of the best teams in the world with the stress of this project needing to win something. And for people rolling their eyes, we're one of the best teams in the world. We are. We are. If you look at the rankings to win the Champions League, we're considered one of the favorites, along with Liverpool. We are joint favorites with Liverpool to win the Premier League.

1:14:15You don't get that if you're not one of the best teams in the world. We were in the last four of the Champions League last season. We've been the second place team in the best league in the world for three consecutive seasons. So we are one of the best teams in the world. And yet somehow, at least recently, it hasn't necessarily felt as fun and joyous as it should to be this good. And obviously everyone understands why. But so how do we balance that? How do we enjoy the journey? How do we balance being very, very good in an era of, that's one of the better ones we've had in a couple of decades with the stress of the project needing to win something?

1:14:46Well, you can't and you shouldn't try to. It's a bit like the right to pursue happiness, right? If you try and pursue happiness, you're not going to be very happy. it's fleeting moments when things are going great. And then, you know, the other side of it is against the balance to the need to win. Well, that's football, right? It's the stakes. It's what makes it important is the fact that everybody feels this critical need to win, which is ridiculous because only one team can win. So that means every other team is going to be some level of not happy. And even the team that wins that season might spend much of the season fretting that they won't win.

1:15:34And, you know, you look at Liverpool, the season they won it during COVID, and they're like, yeah, we won, but there's nobody around to celebrate. And like, how much time do you actually spend being happy? Like, it's not a thing. What gives it as significance and importance is we need to win. And whether you're Everton or us or Sunderland, you need to win that game. You got to win that game. For us, we got to win the Premier League this season. We had a great and fun season when we had all these young players and Ramsdale's best season and Smithrow and Saka. And that was kind of a magical season with ups and downs, but it was like our purest, simplest season because we'd gone from nowhere to somewhere and we could see the future in progress.

1:16:27And we didn't think necessarily we'd win that year, but there was like the surprise. Like that's a kind of a unique bubble moment that doesn't come around for very long. That was our simplest time. But now it's down to brass tacks. We spent a lot of money. We got a lot of good players in. It's on the line. It's not going to be fun. It's going to be a battle, but it's going to matter. And being irrelevant isn't much fun either. Not being in the frame to try and win things is not much fun. So, yeah, it's not going to be much fun this year, guys. We're going to have games and moments where it's fantastic and we're off our heads with delirium.

1:17:07But life is pain and suffering, Elliot. That's what I got to tell you. Well, in your opinion. So let me just update with this. There is some breaking news at the moment that the APT rules, the Associated Party Transaction rules that were being litigated between Manchester City and the Premier League, that litigation, that action has been settled. As part of the settlement, the proceedings are terminated, obviously, and it has been agreed by Manchester City to accept that the current APT, Associated Party Transaction rules, are valid and binding. Okay? They also have agreed to make no further comment as part of this settlement.

1:17:50That is not the 115, 117, 120 charges case. If you want my back of the napkin math on what I think this means, having read nothing other than that statement, it is that this settlement is some kind of quid pro quo for a slightly lesser punishment in the 115 charges case. that they are accepting the apt rules in exchange to get some kind of leniency in the breach in the fraud case so 75 charges yeah that you know what i'd be fine how about this two points per charge we'll cut it down to 75 charges okay 150 point deduction we'll see in the championship uh all kidding aside look this is obviously important we'll get an expert on to discuss it, assuming that the further takeaways from it seem to warrant discussion.

1:18:42But my immediate reaction, again, is not to complete this with 115, 117, 120, 125 charge case. The APT rules, which are fundamental to the Premier League being able to enforce any kind of PSR regulations at all, essentially prohibit clubs from engaging in transactions with parties with which they're associated because those valuations are inherently invalid, right? So when you get a sponsor that you are associated with and say the sponsorship is worth one billion pounds, that would violate the APT rules. The current rules are now valid, no longer being challenged. And we will see what the quid pro quo is for that settlement.

1:19:21Because as a reminder, you don't settle a case unless you get something as part of that settlement, right? Both parties want to get something and we will have to see what city got in exchange for agreeing to settle that case. I think it benefits the Premier League because from everything I read, the APT rules will be hard to uphold in a court period. So the Premier League gets to have APT rules at all. What City got will probably be figured out in the very near future. And hopefully it's a stern punishment still nonetheless. Clive, unless you have an immediate reaction to that, I think we knock it on the head for today and we set off with our week of content and look forward to this international break ending in the Forest game ahead.

1:19:59Elliot:Yeah, I wonder what the costs how they're going to divide up the cost because these lawyers don't work for free Elliot and it's been going on for quite a while and the Premier League have to wear those costs across the league have been sharing those costs and the Premier League is just the clubs by the way and the clubs voted these APT rules in so let's see what happens I think it's a flanchery we're not done I think your your assessment is spot on mate they had to give something up and they raised this after the charges didn't they I think it was always going be a vehicle for, how we say, lesser punishments down the road.

1:20:32Elliot:So good assessment, my friend. Let's see what happens. Yeah, we'll see. I mean, given that there's clearly an NDA, a nondisclosure, a confidentiality component of the settlement based on what their statement says, we will get interpretations of this, but we will not get further insight into it if it is sealed. So we'll have to guess. But I imagine when we see what happens with the other case, we will know very clearly what was agreed upon here. So, you know, you can't predict the one without the other. I think we've got to leave it there. Behind the scenes, we've had a bit of a recording issue today.

1:21:06So I have no idea if this is a 90-minute pod or a 70-minute pod or a 10-minute pod. And you, by this point, will know. But we do not. So we're going to find out together. We will have a patron pod tomorrow. Working title is Elliot Deep Dive on the England national team. but you know we'll see if we can get another American on that pod to join me for it and then we will have some other patron stuff this week including the ever popular Friday Night Clive where we'll look ahead to the weekend's fixtures and more we're still deciding whether a Liverpool rewatch is worth doing we didn't have time last week because we did so many pods but if you still want to see it we have the video and I think it could be interesting but let us know so we know if that's something you want to see okay we'll leave it there Paul thanks Clive thank you very much thank you very much my name is Elliot Smith we love you and we will talk to you after Arsenal 10 for Arsenal